Industry News: Trump Threatens Mexico with Auto Tariffs

[Drew Dowdell]

The President has threatened to slap tariffs on the import of all cars in a year if Mexico does not completely halt the flow of illegal immigration, a near impossible task.  This is after he backtracked on his previous threat to completely close the US-Mexico border, a move his own advisers recommended against.  Such actions would have massive economic repercussions on both sides of the border, raising prices for many consumer goods. 

Trump said, "Mexico understands that we're going to close the border or I'm going to tariff the cars. I'll do one or the other. And probably start with the tariffs".  He further added, "I don't think we'll ever have to close the border because the penalty of tariffs on cars coming into the United States from Mexico, at 25%, will be massive".

One problem with this threat is the fresh trade agreement with Mexico that Trump has already negotiated. Going back on a fresh trade agreement adds to the longtime concerns by other world leaders on whether Trump's word, and the U.S. Government, can be trusted.  Tariffs on imported goods aren't paid by the exporting country, they are paid by the consumers of the importing country, so it is unclear who Trump is targeting with these tariffs. 

One of the biggest automotive importers from Mexico is General Motors.  GM recently had to remove a Chevrolet Blazer display from a stadium in Michigan after backlash over its Mexican origin. GM has recently closed two plants in Michigan costing the state thousands of jobs. 

View full article

[G. David Felt]

Idiot POTUS45 and his incompetent business bully approach clearly threatens global trade in ways he is incapable of understanding as he would not do such moronic comments if he was a real businessman.

This is so insulting to our country and the world the lack of professional leadership in DC.

This approach to jobs, trade, etc. is going to hurt the poor to low income the most as costs across the board will go up.

Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.

[daves87rs]

 And we wonder why Wall Street has the crazy up and downs the do...

GM builds quite a bit down there....

[smk4565]

I will avoid from political talk other than saying 2020 can’t come soon enough.

But this won’t happen.  Zero percent chance he closes the border next to zero percent chance he puts a 25% tax on GM cars and screws GM and all its dealers, and many of those dealers supply a lot of jobs in small town middle ‘Murica where Trump’s voters come from.

”All talk, no action!”  To quote someone famous.

[surreal1272]

This “fresh trade agreement” hasn’t even been ratified by our congress nor will it. There are simply no other words for the cognitive displacement being shown by this man. I won’t even touch on all the other BS. 

[ocnblu]

I can see why so many people have left this site over the years.

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

I can see why so many people have left this site over the years.

Hmmmm. Yeah...about that...

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I can see why so many people have left this site over the years.

EDITED....

Because I regret what I posted. Which wasnt bad, but was not on topic. 

ON TOPIC!

So...tariifs on Mexican built cars, huh?

Well. Phoque GM for building cars in Mexico then! 

You know...Phoque Trump for making his cheap brand named crap in China as well!!!

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

I have not censored any posts in this thread. Keep it on topic and not about each other, but otherwise have at it. 

[smk4565]

If Trump did add a 25% tariff to the Silverados coming from Mexico, we would get to put that will customers change brands for $10,000 price theory to test.  The Tundra is made in the USA,  it would be curious to see what sales of the Tundra did if Ram and GM trucks had tariff on them.

[balthazar]

Tundra is an uncompetitive turd that only sells to hardcore toyoloyolists. And there's not enough of them to steal any sales from the Big 4 trucks- the product is just an unfortunately ugly dud.

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

Tundra is an uncompetitive turd that only sells to hardcore toyoloyolists. And there's not enough of them to steal any sales from the Big 4 trucks- the product is just an unfortunately ugly dud.

Agree completely.

9 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

This “fresh trade agreement” hasn’t even been ratified by our congress nor will it. There are simply no other words for the cognitive displacement being shown by this man. I won’t even touch on all the other BS. 

Our trade deficit and budget deficits have exploded. This was foreseen by economists...but who listens to them?

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If Trump did add a 25% tariff to the Silverados coming from Mexico, we would get to put that will customers change brands for $10,000 price theory to test.  The Tundra is made in the USA,  it would be curious to see what sales of the Tundra did if Ram and GM trucks had tariff on them.

He is posturing for his base...nothing more.

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I have not censored any posts in this thread. Keep it on topic and not about each other, but otherwise have at it. 

Thank you.

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

EDITED....

Because I regret what I posted. Which wasnt bad, but was not on topic. 

ON TOPIC!

So...tariifs on Mexican built cars, huh?

Well. Phoque GM for building cars in Mexico then! 

You know...Phoque Trump for making his cheap brand named crap in China as well!!!

 

Mexico has much better human rights than China. I don't mind buying Mexican...despise buying Chinese.

[A Horse With No Name]

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I can see why so many people have left this site over the years.

People have left Ford Insider News which is a bunch of Trump humpers...Your argument is non unique.

22 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I will avoid from political talk other than saying 2020 can’t come soon enough.

But this won’t happen.  Zero percent chance he closes the border next to zero percent chance he puts a 25% tax on GM cars and screws GM and all its dealers, and many of those dealers supply a lot of jobs in small town middle ‘Murica where Trump’s voters come from.

”All talk, no action!”  To quote someone famous.

All of the vile things that put the Insane Clown Posse in power will still be there after he is gone. And I would put Trumps odds of re election at 65 percent of better.

Edited April 7, 2019 by A Horse With No Name

[smk4565]

3 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

 

He is posturing for his base...nothing more.

 

Right, it is easy to say booo Mexico, go USA and stir up the base.  But when you look past that, tariffs will add about $10k to a lot those Mexican made trucks, that will hurt the dealers in the mid-west and Texas, that will hurt businesses that need to buy those trucks, etc.  

[A Horse With No Name]

On 4/5/2019 at 2:37 PM, dfelt said:

Idiot POTUS45 and his incompetent business bully approach clearly threatens global trade in ways he is incapable of understanding as he would not do such moronic comments if he was a real businessman.

This is so insulting to our country and the world the lack of professional leadership in DC.

This approach to jobs, trade, etc. is going to hurt the poor to low income the most as costs across the board will go up.

Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.

More like morally bankrupt actually.

On 4/5/2019 at 9:16 PM, daves87rs said:

 And we wonder why Wall Street has the crazy up and downs the do...

GM builds quite a bit down there....

GM has issues with product more than they have issues with trump

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

Right, it is easy to say booo Mexico, go USA and stir up the base.  But when you look past that, tariffs will add about $10k to a lot those Mexican made trucks, that will hurt the dealers in the mid-west and Texas, that will hurt businesses that need to buy those trucks, etc.  

Which is why it won't happen.

[surreal1272]

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I can see why so many people have left this site over the years.

And why is that exactly? Because not everyone buys what Trump is selling? Please elaborate or offer a counter argument explaining why tariffs with Mexico is a good thing. 

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If Trump did add a 25% tariff to the Silverados coming from Mexico, we would get to put that will customers change brands for $10,000 price theory to test.  The Tundra is made in the USA,  it would be curious to see what sales of the Tundra did if Ram and GM trucks had tariff on them.

Trump has also suggested huge tariffs on Europe regarding their cars. Want to see how many sales Mercedes loses as a result of that nonsense?

[daves87rs]

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I can see why so many people have left this site over the years.

Ocn, you know that is not true....

People have left this site for the same reason they leave other car boards-they just move on...

Some may have been on the wild side, but many others simply just moved on and got into other things...whether it be different makers or simply different interests...

Even with my current issues with GM, I am still here with my friends. ? Yeah, we tussle a little bit in opinion at times-but in the end things end up fine.

I don’t abandon friends based on opinions on politics....as in the end we are all here for the love of cars....

[smk4565]

13 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

And why is that exactly? Because not everyone buys what Trump is selling? Please elaborate or offer a counter argument explaining why tariffs with Mexico is a good thing. 

Trump has also suggested huge tariffs on Europe regarding their cars. Want to see how many sales Mercedes loses as a result of that nonsense?

Everybody would lose.  But the GLC, GLE, GLS and C-class are made in the USA so those would not be affected.

[surreal1272]

13 hours ago, daves87rs said:

Ocn, you know that is not true....

People have left this site for the same reason they leave other car boards-they just move on...

Some may have been on the wild side, but many others simply just moved on and got into other things...whether it be different makers or simply different interests...

Even with my current issues with GM, I am still here with my friends. ? Yeah, we tussle a little bit in opinion at times-but in the end things end up fine.

I don’t abandon friends based on opinions on politics....as in the end we are all here for the love of cars....

Some of us just took long breaks because they were tired of seeing the same trolling posts over and over again by the same people. 

56 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Everybody would lose.  But the GLC, GLE, GLS and C-class are made in the USA so those would not be affected.

“Everybody” does not lose. Only the Euro makes like Benz do. Fundamental difference there. 

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Some of us just took long breaks because they were tired of seeing the same trolling posts over and over again by the same people. 

“Everybody” does not lose. Only the Euro makes like Benz do. Fundamental difference there. 

Which company only produces and sells cars in the USA?

FCA, Ford and GM all import cars to the USA from other countries.  And they all export to other countries.  Tariffs would hurt every car company.  Some would just feel more pain than others.  Oddly enough Honda and Toyota would probably be hurt the least. 

[G. David Felt]

Lets look at the 25% tariff hit:

According to GM Authority quoting Detroit free press:  http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/04/trump-proposes-25-tariff-on-all-cars-made-in-mexico/

GM built 801,163 vehicles at its three Mexican assembly plants between January and November of 2018, 693,782 of which were exported to the United States or Canada.

GM cars built in Mexico include the Chevrolet Blazer, Chevrolet Cruze Hatchback, Chevrolet Equinox
Chevrolet Silverado 1500, Chevrolet Trax, GMC Sierra 1500 and GMC Terrain.

Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/04/trump-proposes-25-tariff-on-all-cars-made-in-mexico/#ixzz5kSCkMfpy

And according to the latest financial figures the average price of these auto's was $35,000 per Detroit Free Press Story.

So this 25% Tariff on these auto's equals $8,750 on average which seems to be focused on allot of lower tier auto's which again hits the poor to low income that want a nice auto.

End result is these idiotic threats of Tariffs are counter productive to the good of Americans, Canadians, and Mexicans.

There are allot of Cans that are being hurt by incompetent leadership.

 

[oldshurst442]

22 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

 

Mexico has much better human rights than China. I don't mind buying Mexican...despise buying Chinese.

Mexico pisses me off for other reasons. As other shytty Central and South American countries.

Drug Cartels! And the corruption that involves that shyt which spills into both of our countries in the form of police, justice and government corruption and drug addiction and violence on our streets.    

China too with their inaction against their abusive fentanyl practices... 

I know Im blaming other countries for the inadequacies of our own family structures and our breakdown of our own societies regarding poverty and lack of education but still, its THEIR illegal drugs  that fuel our drug addictions.   

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Mexico pisses me off for other reasons. As other shytty Central and South American countries.

Drug Cartels! And the corruption that involves that shyt which spills into both of our countries in the form of police, justice and government corruption and drug addiction and violence on our streets.    

China too with their inaction against their abusive fentanyl practices... 

I know Im blaming other countries for the inadequacies of our own family structures and our breakdown of our own societies regarding poverty and lack of education but still, its THEIR illegal drugs  that fuel our drug addictions.   

 

 

 

Why are we demanding those drugs in the first place? 

I don't know the answer to that, probably many sociological and economic factors go into that, stress, depression, mental illness, etc.  But maybe we should look to solving problems at home, rather than just blaming everyone else for our problems.   And yes there is loads of corruption in Mexico with the drug cartels and they need to clean up their mess too.

[oldshurst442]

24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But maybe we should look to solving problems at home

I agree 100% 

24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

rather than just blaming everyone else for our problems.

I dont feel good about blaming other countries for our own lack of social stability and  lack of education. Our own breakdown of family values, etc...

Its easy to do though...

24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Why are we demanding those drugs in the first place? 

I don't know the answer to that, probably many sociological and economic factors go into that, stress, depression, mental illness, etc.

Its easy to do because we do NOT have the answers to solve this. 

It starts at home. But parenting is going to the dogs.  Has been going to the dogs since the 1960s...

As far as mental illness goes, our views have to change about mental illness before that kind of drug addiction goes away.

Plus...if North Americans could STOP asking for doctors to subscribe them a pill (or several pills) to pop for every little thing that causes us stress...

24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And yes there is loads of corruption in Mexico with the drug cartels and they need to clean up their mess too.

But this would be why Im pissed at Mexico and Brazil and Venezuela and China and the rest...

Because in reality, THEIR mess spills unto our  mess and it becomes very very hard to deal with inside our own countries. If these countries would be a lot less corrupt and deal with THEIR mess, it be a lot easier to deal with the illegal shenanigans on our side of things.

President Trump...on the border and the wall...I think in reality, THIS is what he is referring to.  Yes, he is pandering to the lowest common denominator which won him the Presidency, but his pandering does not mean that what he is hinting at is not true...(his words might not be correct, but his message behind those dumb words he chooses to use do have some element of  truth to them...)

Edited April 8, 2019 by oldshurst442

[daves87rs]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Why are we demanding those drugs in the first place? 

I don't know the answer to that, probably many sociological and economic factors go into that, stress, depression, mental illness, etc.  But maybe we should look to solving problems at home, rather than just blaming everyone else for our problems.   And yes there is loads of corruption in Mexico with the drug cartels and they need to clean up their mess too.

Totally agree. For all we know it could be the issues and hate here that drive folks to those very drugs..

I recently had a good friend visit me from Germany, and he has truly noticed a change. He has noticed a much more cold and uninviting country since has lasted visited, or even lived here 16 years ago. He sees many of those very reasons, but his mention of a little less media and a little more real world could do wonders...

And it is hard to blame other countries for our greed.....

[G. David Felt]

7 hours ago, daves87rs said:

And it is hard to blame other countries for our greed.....

Come on, Greed is Good, Gecko says so........

 

[A Horse With No Name]

39 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Come on, Greed is Good, Gecko says so........

 

Capitalism with adult supervision is fantastic.

[G. David Felt]

13 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Capitalism with adult supervision is fantastic.

Right, just need to get the kids back into preschool.

[ccap41]

I think some are forgetting what vehicles GM actually produces in Mexico.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/30-cars-affected-trump-close-border-mexico/

[oldshurst442]

3 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Capitalism with adult supervision is fantastic.

Sure it is...no really!!!

But, there are two things that are happening right now, since the 1980s Id say

1. There is no supervision what so ever

2. And if there is supervision, the supervision  gets to do a lot of turning blind eyes while receiving special envelopes to allow scrupulous business practices to happen. And some of the supervisors are allowed get to play the game as well...

And this is common practice not only in individual countries with a limited amount of businesses. But across MULTIPLE countries all involved with each other, sleeping together and not only with legit businesses, and not a finite amount of legit businesses but with illegal products as well...

 

Amazon. 

Undercut pricing for years and losing billions for years but allowed to continue with predatory business practices (not only in North America, but the world, but the US has allowed Amazon to do this...and now has become a leader...NOT PAYING TAXES in ANY country.  In some cases, using FEDERAL shipping agencies, the US postal service, to ship their goods.  Trump said something like that to shut down Amazon, but then again, he as a business man is no less scrupulous...

UBER.

In Quebec, A taxi driver has to buy a 150 000 dollar taxi license. This licence does many things. Protects the consumer and company alike with different regulations and the like. Anyway...UBER for so long always stated that they were NOT a taxi service, to circumvent taxi laws not only in Quebec, but around the world.  UBER undercuts taxi pricing to squeeze out the legit taxi business model, all the while NOT paying taxi licenses, taxes...continues to bleed billions, in hoping they too, become like Amazon...

Civil unrest though does happen, but yet again, governments allow this predatory tactic to happen...

https://globalnews.ca/news/5132699/protest-taxi-drivers-block-traffic-downtown-montreal/

In Quebec, the Government allowed UBER to continue on their non taxi service. Then they threatened to ban Uber because UBer refused to pay the 150 000 liciense fee. Now, the government wants to DEREGULATE the iindustry, yet dont want to reimburse those taxi drivers/owners the 150 000 dollar business fee/license...

 

BOEING:

Knowingly sold a defective 737 Max 8. Knowingly had a software program to bypass a certain problem. Did not train airline companies properly on this software program.  Software program sensors in some cases were the problem and not the program itslef, yet REFUSED to ground the aircraft. Not once, but twice. 

The FAA did not properly certify the aircraft BEFORE it was sold. 

The FAA continued to allow Boeing to police itself after the 1st crash.

Boeing begged American airline companies, and Canadian, to NOT ground the plane after the 2nd crash. 

It took a week or two, reluctantly for Boeing AND the FAA to ground the 737 Max 8, after the 2nd crash. Before they did that, they blamed pilot error.

There is a rumor that Boeing sold separately necessary safety features. Those necessary safety features were OPTIONS...

They tried to blame 3rd world airline companies for not ponying up the extra cash for the necessary safety features when those safety features are supposed to be MANDATORY, NOT OPTIONAL!!!

Banks and Wallstreet

 Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, LLoyds of London anbd all those greedy banks that sold questionable iffy mortgages to people then sold those "assets" as investments and those failed causing a world meltdown...,

ILLEGAL DRUG TRADE

There is soooo much to talk about this...but politicians really dont give a phoque. 

Yes it starts at home, good family units, taking care of depression, NOT having negative stigmas concerning the mentally ill and the like...

But it really is a huuuuge problem when illegal drugs come into another country. All kinds of problems with that....but there is no supervision anywhere by anyone for that...

Instead...WE CRIMINALIZE AND JUDGE THE USER!!! 

WE BLAME THE POVERTY SITUATION, THE LACK OF EDUCATION OF THE USER, THE MENTAL ILLNESS THE USER HAS, THE BROKEN FAMILY HE IS IN BUT WE NEVER EVER HATE ON THE BIG TIME DRUG CARTELS

PROOF:

JUST LOOK AT THE RESPONSES HERE AND THE UPVOTES FOR SAYING STUFF LIKE IT STARTS AT HOME OR WHY DO USERS USE DRUGS IN THE FIRST PLACE.  

NOTHING REGARDING THE SHYTE THAT OTHER COUNTRIES ALLOW THAT ENABLE DRUG CARTELS TO EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!  THE SUPERVISION IS LACKING, NON? 

BECAUSE THE SUPERVISION IS IN THE HANDS OF THE DRUG CARTELS...THE SUPERVISION IS CORRUPT AND INSTEAD OF FIGHTING DRUG ADDICTION, WE TURN A BLIND EYE TO IT AND SWEEP IT UNDER THE RUG BLAMING THE ADDICTED...AND DO NOTHING TO COMBAT THE CORRUPTION EITHER!!!

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

Ill tell you why some shytty South American, Central American countries and Mexico piss me off with their Drug cartels!

Why on earth are some Chevy Silverados, Blazers built in Mexico?

Lower wages?

Because North American workers get paid too much?

All shytty excuses that DOES US AMERICANS AND CANADIANS HARM!!!

Maybe if Mexico fixed their corruption, took care of their illegal drug infested economy, took care of their people, their people not afraid of the crooks and the law alike,  (people get abducted for ransom apparently in Mexico on a regular basis...how phoqued up is that?) maybe their economy would align more like Canada and the US and maybe the factory workers would get paid more or less what an American or Canadian worker would get paid, then the incentive for big business to seek slave labour would be less for Mexico to get all those factories...

(Or are you guys soooooo in favour of big business making sooooooo much money and profit that their CEOs have sooooo much money that they could buy off your politicians and that paying a salaried worker a good pay is not part of your philosophy?)

And THAT is a DIRECT result of their DRUG CARTELS leading the country.

The US and Canada battled organized crime. Its still present, but the claw  that the different mafias had during the peak decades of the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s is diminished immensely. 

We took care of our business in that sense. We still have a ways to go...but it seems Mexico, China, do little with the illegal drug trade on their end... 

Edited April 8, 2019 by oldshurst442

[ccap41]

53 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Knowingly sold a defective 737 Max 8.

Do you know this as fact or are you assuming? If they knowingly did this, they are in some deep sh!t. 

[oldshurst442]

27 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Do you know this as fact or are you assuming? If they knowingly did this, they are in some deep sh!t. 

Well, the CEO took responsibility for it, after months of blaming the airlines, the pilots of those airlines...

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/video-boeing-takes-responsibility-for-eliminating-457254/

 

Maybe what I said about "knowingly" might not be accurate either, but I think certain engineers and software programmers knew that the system may not be 100%.

https://simpleflying.com/737-max-design-changes/

 

Quote

 

It’s not often that we see two of the same aircraft involved in similar incidents, especially on different airlines. Similar conditions were found in both situations which has raised concerns around the safety of the aircraft. Boeing stands by the safety of its aircraft, and until further investigations are concluded, these safety concerns are just speculation.

 

 

 

 

 

But...

earlier in the investigstions after most of the European Boeing 737 MAX 8 carriers GROUNDED the airplane, Boeing and the FAA and Canada's transport minister did NOT want to admit fault...2 days later after the WORLD stated concerns, Canada, FAA and Boeing grounded the 737...

It shoukd have done so from the get go!!!

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethiopia-airplane-usa/u-s-to-mandate-design-changes-on-boeing-737-max-8-after-crashes-idUSKBN1QS2CL

U.S. Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao told reporters regulators would not hesitate to act if they find a safety issue.

“If the FAA identifies an issue that affects safety, the department will take immediate and appropriate action,” Chao told reporters. “I want people to be assured that we take these incidents, these accidents very seriously.”

Boeing’s top executive told employees on Monday he was confident in the safety of the U.S. manufacturer’s top-selling 737 MAX aircraft. The company added that it was “still early” in the Ethiopian Airlines investigation.

Reuters and other media outlets have reported that Boeing has for months planned design changes after the Lion Air crash in Indonesia but the FAA notice was the first public confirmation.

Canada’s transport minister also said he will not hesitate to act once the cause of the crash is known.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/19/transportation-secretary-asks-departments-inspector-general-to-audit-faas-certification-of-boeing-737-max.html

 

The Boeing 737 Max 8 features larger engines than previous models and to address potential in-flight stalls, Boeing added an automatic anti-stall system that points the nose of the plane downward, the way pilots recover from such a position. However, if the sensors that determine if the plane is in a stall receive erroneous data and point the nose down, the consequences could be catastrophic.

Investigators probing the doomed Lion Air crash in Indonesia have indicated that the pilots appeared to be battling the system and the similarities between that crash and the Ethiopian Airlines crash have increased scrutiny from lawmakers and regulators on Boeing and the FAA on the plane’s launch.

 

 

Both aircraft that crashed had similar problems...and yet Boeing and the FAA INITIALLY REFUSED to accept those facts...after the WORLD gave pressure, and after all kinds of shyt excuses,  only then did Boeing and the FAA ground the plane. There were American airline carriers and Canadian that were flying the Boeing 737 Max 8 AFTER the crashes!!! DO YOU BELIEVE THAT! 

Air Canada grounded its fleet because of PUBLIC pressure and THEN the Canadian Transport Minister also told canadian airliners to ground the 737 and then after the FAA grounded the plane...only to ADMIT that there is something wrong...and yet, many pilots in the beginnning flying this aircraft have complained that the safety measures do not make sense...that would be BEFORE the two planes crashed...

So yeah...something is fishy...lots of deflection and blame gameing going on..

Would something happen to Boeing and their CEOs and software engineers if investigations found to be guilty, if those investigations are being made to find the truth anyway?

Depends how corrupt the supervision is? 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by oldshurst442

[ccap41]

I cannot imagine an engineer KNOWINGLY allowed such a fatal error. They would know there would be deaths on their hands. 

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I cannot imagine an engineer KNOWINGLY allowed such a fatal error. They would know there would be deaths on their hands. 

This is back to the bean counters of a software glitch that happens what is believed to be so rarely that they factor the lawsuits and settlements versus the cost of extended R&D to make sure it was fixed.

We have seen this on many auto's, AKA Ford Pinto, GM Ignition switch, Toyota Prius floor mates accelerator stuck issue, etc.

I would not be surprised that this was found in the software as a bug, yet considered so minor that they flagged it as a patch or update down the road once they got selling and then never really came back to it. Many bugs are left this way till something major happens.

In this case two planes crash and all lives lost and now Boeing is looking at issuing a software update. ?

[oldshurst442]

14 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I cannot imagine an engineer KNOWINGLY allowed such a fatal error. They would know there would be deaths on their hands. 

Play on words...

I got no time to argue on a play on words...

But yeah...their solution failed...and yeah...they have blood on their hands...

And if the business culture they are in allows for that to happen...then yeah...

What are you trying to argue here?

 

Aircraft safety regulations are not a joke!!!

This is not an industry where a company is allowed to cheap out on a piece to save a few cents and then an accident happens and then its so what...

This is an industry where EVERYTHING regarding safety is calculated and NOT ONE MISTAKE SHOULD BE MADE...BEFORE CERTIFICATION...

If a crash happens, the reason for an investigation PRIMARILY is NOT to lay blame, but to learn what happened and to fix it and prevent it from happening again...

In fact, all aircraft safety regulations are a DIRECT RESULT from previous aircraft accidents. Fatal or non fatal.  Which is sombre in itself because the industry gets safer AFTER an accident occurs.

In THIS case, the investigation is to FIND blame...

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by oldshurst442

[ccap41]

I know exactly what you're talking about @dfelt, I'm currently in a business ethics class where we've gone into detail about the Ford Pinto. I still cannot and will not believe until it is fact that they knowingly engineered it to have such a fatal error. 

24 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Ain't nobody got time to respond to paragraphs written like that. 

[oldshurst442]

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I know exactly what you're talking about @dfelt, I'm currently in a business ethics class where we've gone into detail about the Ford Pinto. I still cannot and will not believe until it is fact that they knowingly engineered it to have such a fatal error. 

Ain't nobody got time to respond to paragraphs written like that. 

Yet you answer me like a troll...

Without offering a counter point...

With using italics to prove some sort of internet warrior point...insinuating something about my opinion...and that somehow your opinion is righteous because you just simply wont believe that Boeing CEOs and its engineers could not possibly cover anything up...

You are so sure of the American Justice system are you that they might find Boeing guilty?

Yet you do not question how the phoque the FAA certified the Boeing 737 Max to begin with...

Read on how the FAA took Beoing's word on how safe the Max 8 is before initial certification because the Max 8 is based on a 737...despite the Max having new engines, wings...

Read on how the FAA did not ground the Max IMMEDIATELY after the 2nd crash, especially when reports came IMMEDIATELY that the 1st and 2nd crash had SIMILAR failures...

Yes...you are a vigilant one on not pursuing blame without proof, yet proof is there in front of you...if you took the time to read...

But...its OK...

Continue to answer like a douche and when somebody answers you back like a douche, act like an innocent victim...

 

 

[ccap41]

2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Without offering a counter point...

I already answered this. I'm not going to just repeat the same thing over and over and over and over again. 

I asked a question because you called them out for knowingly making a faulty system. I said I won't accept that they made this faulty on purpose until it has been proven factual. 

4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Read on how the FAA took Beoing's word on how safe the Max 8 is before initial certification because the Max 8 is based on a 737...despite the Max having new engines, wings...

News flash, same thing happens in the car industry. The EPA doesn't test every single new vehicle. 

[Drew Dowdell]

The CEO took responsibility for it... that is different than knowingly doing something wrong. 

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

I already answered this. I'm not going to just repeat the same thing over and over and over and over again. 

I asked a question because you called them out for knowingly making a faulty system. I said I won't accept that they made this faulty on purpose until it has been proven factual. 

You answered that after I called you out on your douchiness, then you play the victim...

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/failed-certification-faa-missed-safety-issues-in-the-737-max-system-implicated-in-the-lion-air-crash/

 

As Boeing hustled in 2015 to catch up to Airbus and certify its new 737 MAX, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) managers pushed the agency’s safety engineers to delegate safety assessments to Boeing itself, and to speedily approve the resulting analysis.

But the original safety analysis that Boeing delivered to the FAA for a new flight control system on the MAX — a report used to certify the plane as safe to fly — had several crucial flaws.

That flight control system, called MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System), is now under scrutiny after two crashes of the jet in less than five months resulted in the FAA’s March 13 order to ground the plane.

Current and former engineers directly involved with the evaluations or familiar with the document shared details of Boeing’s “System Safety Analysis” of MCAS, which The Seattle Times confirmed.

The safety analysis:

• Understated the power of the new flight control system, which was designed to swivel the horizontal tail to push the nose of the plane down to avert a stall. When the planes later entered service, MCAS was capable of moving the tail more than four times farther than was stated in the initial safety analysis document.
• Failed to account for how the system could reset itself each time a pilot responded, thereby missing the potential impact of the system repeatedly pushing the airplane’s nose downward.
• Assessed a failure of the system as one level below “catastrophic.” But even that “hazardous” danger level should have precluded activation of the system based on input from a single sensor — and yet that’s how it was designed.

The people who spoke to The Seattle Times and shared details of the safety analysis all spoke on condition of anonymity to protect their jobs at the FAA and other aviation organizations.

Both Boeing and the FAA were informed of the specifics of this story and were asked for responses 11 days ago, before the second crash of a 737 MAX on March 10.

Late on the 15th, the FAA said it followed its standard certification process on the MAX. Citing a busy week, a spokesman said the agency was “unable to delve into any detailed inquiries.”

[oldshurst442]

But yeah...

You are both correct that the Boeing CEO took responsibility, not admit guilt and tell that he knew that there is something wrong...which I gave a link too in my first post, and yeah...this investigation is not in courts...and no results have been made...yet..if ever...

Like there is no smoking gun to talk about...

Instead, focus on a play on words...

So...I guess you believe that Boeing just made a small innocent mistake, right?

The way you wanna answer me...

[ccap41]

I'm done here. I'm not playing into your paragraph game of over-wordy-ness. 

I said my part, my opinion. That is all that's needed. 

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'm done here. I'm not playing into your paragraph game of over-wordy-ness. 

I said my part, my opinion. That is all that's needed. 

My wordy-ness...

GO PHOQUE YOURSELF!!!

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/failed-certification-faa-missed-safety-issues-in-the-737-max-system-implicated-in-the-lion-air-crash/

 

PS: YOUR OPINION MEANS SHYT AS ITS FLAWED!!!

ITS WRONG!!!

YOU NEED A LOLLIPOP TO DEAL WITH IT???!!!

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

Hey now...

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Do you know this as fact or are you assuming? If they knowingly did this, they are in some deep sh!t. 

 

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

I cannot imagine an engineer KNOWINGLY allowed such a fatal error. They would know there would be deaths on their hands. 

 

33 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I already answered this. I'm not going to just repeat the same thing over and over and over and over again. 

I asked a question because you called them out for knowingly making a faulty system. I said I won't accept that they made this faulty on purpose until it has been proven factual. 

News flash, same thing happens in the car industry. The EPA doesn't test every single new vehicle. 

 

12 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'm done here. I'm not playing into your paragraph game of over-wordy-ness. 

I said my part, my opinion. That is all that's needed. 

 

5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Hey now...

Drew...his righteousness gone long enough.

He never gave a counterpoint, nor proof. 

I gave MULTIPLE LINKS. I dont care if I persuade him or not...

He phoquing insults me...my wordy-ness on which I gave links as to why I think this way...

He just wants to troll to use a play on words...KNOWINGLY...

And yet...I even gave proof of why Boeing CEOs and engineers MIGHT KNOWINGLY have done this...

But...he is righteous...isnt he?

PHOQUE HIM!!!

HE IS A TROLL!!! Not because he believes what ever the phoque he believes, he wants to argue on a play on words...KNOWINGLY..

And he...does not even offer a counterpoint, just casually states his opnion that he does not believe KNOWINGLY, and yet,,,a new article from SEATTLE...

Boeing Everett plant is close to Seattle...may insinuate something I am insinuating...in fact, I made my opinion from that article a while ago...

Drew...if we cant discuss things, dont tell me...muzzle him...

I GAVE PROOF ON HOW I FEEL THIS WAY...

HE DID NOT!!!

THAT IS TROLLING 101!!!

YEAH!   PHOQUE HIM!!!

 

[ccap41]

23 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I said my part, my opinion.

 

[Drew Dowdell]

This Boeing debacle reminds me a lot of the Series of Unfortunate Events that was the GM Ignition Switch fiasco.  Nothing purposely engineered wrong, but an unforeseen series of events occurred that caused crashes. 

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

 

No you didnt...you trolled.

[oldshurst442]

11 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

This Boeing debacle reminds me a lot of the Series of Unfortunate Events that was the GM Ignition Switch fiasco.  Nothing purposely engineered wrong, but an unforeseen series of events occurred that caused crashes. 

but this aint the automotive industry Drew.

Nothing is supposed to be rushed, or cheapened in this industry.

Millions of dollars are spent in testing all facets of engineering in this industry to avoid and try to prevent a series of unfortunate events.

And although Boeing did not engineer a death trap on purpose, they rushed the certification. FAA allowed this too.

When both Max 8s crashed, Boeing knew then that there is something wrong...

I don tknow that...I wasnt there....sure...

You could argue me on that....that is what CCAP the troll is doing...

But, the way CCAP is not lending out his REAL opinions fly on the matter is telling me on how you also feel about this...

A series of misfortunate events...

But this is the aircraft industry. It simply is not allowed to be that way...

This IS criminal...

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Do you know this as fact or are you assuming? If they knowingly did this, they are in some deep sh!t. 

He is saying this sarcastically to me...

But you better PHOQUING BELIEVE IT THIS IS CRIMINAL...

Here, the #FAKENEWS article...because CCAP does not believe...

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/failed-certification-faa-missed-safety-issues-in-the-737-max-system-implicated-in-the-lion-air-crash/

Let the investigations do their thing...and if anything at all will come out of it because the FAA might be in danger too...and well, the FAA may too big to fail let alone Boeing...

Edited April 8, 2019 by oldshurst442