Geneva 2019: Mercedes-Benz EQV Concept: Comments

[Drew Dowdell]

Mercedes-Benz unveiled the EQV Concept at the Geneva International Auto Show today.  The concept features a 100 kWh battery that enables the van to travel up to 249 miles (400 km) on a single charge.  Rapid charging functionality enables 62 miles of range in just 15 minutes.

The concept utilizes a front drivetrain with 201 hp electric motor.  The motor, transmission, cooling system and power electronics come together in a compact integral unit.  The battery is placed under the load floor and takes up no room in the passenger compartment.

While this is a concept, Mercedes says that a production version of this van will come to market. No word yet on when that will be, though the word "soon" was used.

 

 

Related:

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Curtains for the Mercedes-Benz SLC

 

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[G. David Felt]

Very cool, sharp looking EV van. I hate the floating LCD screen. Interior color combo is nice.

[smk4565]

I suspect Amazon, FedEX, UPS, etc will love these for city delivery purposes, especially in California, or European cities that frown upon gas burners in their urban areas.

[ocnblu]

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

Very cool, sharp looking EV van. I hate the floating LCD screen. Interior color combo is nice.

Was wondering how you would balance your hatred for Benz with your EV drooling.  Now I see.

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Was wondering how you would balance your hatred for Benz with your EV drooling.  Now I see.

I can always respect a proper EV auto. Just cause it has a 3 point star and I would not buy it does not mean I cannot respect the engineering effort that went into it.

GM / Ford / RAM would benefit from doing the same thing. EV vans that can be used for delivery / service work in the inner city will be a big win for companies by reducing service costs / fuel costs / noise and cleaner air for the City Dwellers.

Still love ya Blu, keep me on my toes in Explaining why the Dark Side has better Cookies and you will join me young Padawan!  

[riviera74]

This EQV concept looks a lot like today's MB Sprinter 2500 externally.

I agree that GM and Ford and RAM must put out their EV alternatives to this small EV van as soon as possible.  No need to lose relatively easy fleet sales to MB.  Besides, we all need clean air, not just big cities like Los Angeles.

[balthazar]

Ford has or will shortly intro PHEV Transit & Transit Connect vans. Seems to me hybrid vans make a bit more sense than pure EVs for all-day delivery service.
 

[ocnblu]

6 hours ago, dfelt said:

I can always respect a proper EV auto. Just cause it has a 3 point star and I would not buy it does not mean I cannot respect the engineering effort that went into it.

GM / Ford / RAM would benefit from doing the same thing. EV vans that can be used for delivery / service work in the inner city will be a big win for companies by reducing service costs / fuel costs / noise and cleaner air for the City Dwellers.

Still love ya Blu, keep me on my toes in Explaining why the Dark Side has better Cookies and you will join me young Padawan!  

Question:  why spend the money if there is no customer demand for more expensive, less useful work vans?

[Drew Dowdell]

33 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Question:  why spend the money if there is no customer demand for more expensive, less useful work vans?

The EQV at least is geared more towards VIP transportation rather than  plumbers. Though City based plumbers aren't going to be traveling 249+ miles in a day usually.

[Robert Hall]

I could see this being used for airport shuttles...the 'minibus' passenger version of the Sprinter is used for that in various countries in Europe (ridden in them), those would probably rack up a lot of miles. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Robert Hall

[Potluck]

expensive to buy, but cheap to run... especially in countries with high fuel costs.   These would make great hotel shuttles that only depart every hour and then sit at the hotel for half an hour. they can charge while they're waiting for the next run. 

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Question:  why spend the money if there is no customer demand for more expensive, less useful work vans?

You ASSUME there is no demand. Yet when people complain about noise in the inner city, open header motorcycles, diesel auto's, noise, smell, etc. People are wanting quieter options, cleaner air. 

So you are making an ASSUMPTION that people do not want this? How do you know what millions of people living in cities want?

Seattle has a noise code that attempts to address this: http://www.seattle.gov/sdci/codes/codes-we-enforce-(a-z)/noise-code

Clearly our neighborhoods are asking for a change to noise and air pollution such as Beacon hill: https://www.knkx.org/post/environmental-justice-seattle-s-beacon-hill-addressing-air-and-noise-pollution or https://iexaminer.org/environmental-injustice-the-air-and-noise-pollution-threatening-the-health-of-beacon-hill/

To quote from the iexaminer story above: Both air and noise pollution are associated with health risks. Long-term exposure to certain air pollutants is associated with heart disease and childhood asthma, according to Tim Larson, a professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering at the UW.

Here is a science research done from 2000 to 2008 that shows both air and noise pollution increase the risk of heart attack especially in densly populated cities. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181024112244.htm

The SCIENCE supports that less noise and cleaner air is good for everyone both inside the city and outside of it.

This on top of a vehicle that is quiet, less maintenance, less cost of fueling in a form factor such as this EV is desired even as you hate them, many love the option. This is a perfect representation of capitalism as another auto option that you can ignore and have a right to do and others will support.

While use as an airport taxi or executive transport, I expect this electric van to also grab market share among service providers that will love the lower cost of operation and the stealth approach to delivering at all hours without bothering others.

Electric Vans will be perfect for Amazon Prime 24/7 delivery in neighborhoods to inner cities.

[smk4565]

China has massive pollution problems, it is only a matter of time before they ban gas engine vehicles in certain cities to control that.  China is Mercedes 2nd largest market after the EU (who might also ban ICE vehicles in some places come 2030), so they are getting ready.

[ocnblu]

10 hours ago, dfelt said:

You ASSUME there is demand. Yet when people complain about noise in the inner city, open header motorcycles, diesel auto's, noise, smell, etc. People are wanting quieter options, cleaner air. 

You ASSUME there are droves city dwellers who complain about AUTOMOTIVE noise and a heightened sense of "air pollution".

18 hours ago, balthazar said:

Ford has or will shortly intro PHEV Transit & Transit Connect vans. Seems to me hybrid vans make a bit more sense than pure EVs for all-day delivery service.
 

The van pictured is a Transit Custom, sized between the Transit Connect and the Transit.  It is currently not sold in America.

[ocnblu]

12 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The EQV at least is geared more towards VIP transportation rather than  plumbers. Though City based plumbers aren't going to be traveling 249+ miles in a day usually.

I was asking why any OEM would spend the money to develop a work van that is much higher priced, and hamstrung by electric propulsion.

[oldshurst442]

28 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

You ASSUME there are droves city dwellers who complain about AUTOMOTIVE noise and a heightened sense of "air pollution".

 

 

There are!

This is why muscle cars dont sound like this anymore...

 

But they are subdued like this

 

with almost double the horsepower...

And about the air pollution thing...

 

[balthazar]

This is why muscle cars don't sound like this anymore...

They didn't sound like that new either - that's aftermarket exhaust, sounds like FlowMasters (founded in the '80s for sprint cars). Also available for the Hellcat, BTW. ;)
Check the comments for the Challenger video... see how many are complaining.
 

[oldshurst442]

18 minutes ago, balthazar said:

 

They didn't sound like that new either - that's aftermarket exhaust, sounds like FlowMasters (founded in the '80s for sprint cars). Also available for the Hellcat, BTW.
Check the comments for the Challenger video... see how many are complaining.
 

Always with the semantics...

You very well know that noise pollution laws took in effect sometime in the 1970s regarding loud engine exhaust noises.

So much so...that even AFTERMARKET exhausts even for classic cars cannot exceed a certain amount of decibels...which I am tooo lazy to google...yet, the jist of those videos was exactly that...

A modern Hellcat cannot, will not pass noise pollution laws leaving the factory loud...

In the 1960s, there was an option for muffler delete on your factory optioned big block muscle car, therefore, that 1970 Challenger would definitely leave the factory being that loud and although that Hellcat may have an aftermarket exhaust...its still subdued...

And hence this video Im about to post

 

 

But if the cops catch you with that bypass open, you get a fine...

There is a reason for such laws to have been passed, because there were people complaining...

Therefore...my original post still stands true....and yours...not so much ?

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

I was asking why any OEM would spend the money to develop a work van that is much higher priced, and hamstrung by electric propulsion.

Because most of the work is already being done for their other EV pursuits and why not make an option for customers who have a very specific use profile. This isn't going to be the answer for every Joe the Plumber out there, but there is a market for it for local delivery, hotel shuttles, and similar. They already have the body shell, they already have the power train in development. Put the two together.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

I was asking why any OEM would spend the money to develop a work van that is much higher priced, and hamstrung by electric propulsion.

Not hamstrung by electric propulsion and even if 15 to 20K higher priced, the savings on maintenance, oil, gas will easily off set and have bigger savings over a 3-5 year period than gas.

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442 In the US, auto exhaust noise cannot go over 95 decibels. Many rock concerts break the 105 decibel limit that does cause hearing loss. Harley Davidson has come under fire as their open header bikes have often broke the sound limit and in the cities, you are very correct that many people complain about the noise waking them up during the night when sleeping.

[smk4565]

24 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Not hamstrung by electric propulsion and even if 15 to 20K higher priced, the savings on maintenance, oil, gas will easily off set and have bigger savings over a 3-5 year period than gas.

Right, think of an airport off site parking shuttle company that runs an Econoline or Transit van/bus 50,000 miles a year or more at 10-15 mpg.  Then compare to what an electric van would cost to operate.  There are loads of applications for an electric van.

As far as muscle cars go that was brought up, this has 1,900 hp, and I don't think an V8s are going to touch this Pinanfirina:

Electric is the future.

Edited March 7, 2019 by smk4565

[balthazar]

V8s aren't going to touch the 1900 HP pininfarina not because it's faster, but because no one will ever see this $2.5 million dollar proposal. Because it's $2.5 million dollars. If it gets built.
- - - - -
Re an electric pass van operating costs- that depends on it's pricing. Unless Daimler can somehow stop themselves from gouging van customers -- after all, there is zero passion about buying a commercial van; it's all about the bottom line -- and not tack another $25K onto the $40K the sprinter diesel starts at, there is no cost comparison to a TD Transit (which gets 17 MPG composite, not 10, nor does it get the 14.5 MPG the sprinter TD has been demonstrated to return). You'd get AT LEAST 10 years of being ahead of the game in a TD commercial van over an EV. They need to be priced competitively to "be the future".

[G. David Felt]

16 minutes ago, balthazar said:

V8s aren't going to touch the 1900 HP pininfarina not because it's faster, but because no one will ever see this $2.5 million dollar proposal. Because it's $2.5 million dollars. If it gets built.
- - - - -
Re an electric pass van operating costs- that depends on it's pricing. Unless Daimler can somehow stop themselves from gouging van customers -- after all, there is zero passion about buying a commercial van; it's all about the bottom line -- and not tack another $25K onto the $40K the sprinter diesel starts at, there is no cost comparison to a TD Transit (which gets 17 MPG composite, not 10, nor does it get the 14.5 MPG the sprinter TD has been demonstrated to return). You'd get AT LEAST 10 years of being ahead of the game in a TD commercial van over an EV. They need to be priced competitively to "be the future".

I totally disagree with you on the Sprinter TD van. Sadly my brother inlaw who has an appliance service business has replaced all of them less than 5 years old due to high maintenance cost, breakage constantly compared to the Ford vans he replaced them with. Sprinters are not reliable as MB would like to make them out to be. I hope their EV van is far better.

CNG converted vans have been proven to totally offset the high conversion price at 15K miles a year in service compared to gas or diesel. EV's will do the same thing due to low maintenance and lower cost to recharge the battery packs.

[balthazar]

That totally depends on the purchase price! It takes many years to offset tens of thousands more spent on Day 1- one can't legally  buy a brand new vehicle with Monopoly money (unfortunately). Saving the cost of 2 or 3 oil changes per year is a drop in the bucket if it cost you $25K to do so.

[ocnblu]

Apple?  Peach?  Blueberry?  Shoo-fly?  What flavor is the pie in dfelt's sky?

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

 

They didn't sound like that new either - that's aftermarket exhaust, sounds like FlowMasters (founded in the '80s for sprint cars). Also available for the Hellcat, BTW.
Check the comments for the Challenger video... see how many are complaining.
 

People complained about the S550(pre-'19) Mustang GT being too quiet from the factory as well. Any comparison with the Camaro SS somebody would mention the weak exhaust from the Mustang compared to the SS.

[ccap41]

12 hours ago, dfelt said:

Not hamstrung by electric propulsion and even if 15 to 20K higher priced, the savings on maintenance, oil, gas will easily off set and have bigger savings over a 3-5 year period than gas.

Zero chance 15-20k is paid off in 3-5 years. You're on drugs if you think an EV version of the same vehicle can pay itself off in 3-5 years. 

The owner won't even use 15-20k in gas. 

15000 miles/year

15mpg

$2.40/gallon

$7200-$12000. 

I would think 15,000 miles/year is about worse case scenario with an electric work van, too. 

[Robert Hall]

Isn't UPS buying a bunch of electric vans?  I would think UPS, Fed Ex, Amazon etc would be looking closely at electric vans, along w/ the USPS to replace the old Grumman boxes.

[G. David Felt]

36 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Zero chance 15-20k is paid off in 3-5 years. You're on drugs if you think an EV version of the same vehicle can pay itself off in 3-5 years. 

The owner won't even use 15-20k in gas. 

15000 miles/year

15mpg

$2.40/gallon

$7200-$12000. 

I would think 15,000 miles/year is about worst case scenario with an electric work van, too. 

According to FedEx and UPS you have the following details.

FedEx delivery drivers average 160 miles a day. 52 weeks in a year @ 5 days a week equal the following math (5 * 160 *52 = 41,600 miles a year driven)

UPS delivery drivers average 200 miles a day. Same formula (5 * 200 * 52 = 52,000 miles a year driven)

Pretty much most service companies average 15,000 miles a year or more so recovering a 15-20K up front cost is very realistic in the first 24 months. The formulas for LNG or CNG converted products have shown that with those fuels selling at half the price of Diesel even with the conversion cost of the motor and the LNG / CNG fuel tank costs, that most often those cost are recovered in 24 months and then bigger savings happen over the longer life due to less maintenance for LNG/CNG over diesel or Gas. I know for a fact that my brother in-laws appliance repair business they average 20,000 miles a year on the work vans. Showed him this last night and while he is put off by the Sprinter van, he did say he would be willing to buy one and see how it did on the routes. He is interested in reducing the overall costs to his vehicle fleet and would love it if Ford or GM would offer a full size electric van.

With EV vans the cost of maintenance is even lower and the cost of electricity is lower so recovering this upfront cost should be very doable in the first could years.

With examples of only 2 or 3 oil changes a year, this ignores that the more driving the more maintenance on an ICE auto. There is more than just oil changes too on an ICE auto that needs to be looked at. Brakes, differential, transmission, so much more costs on ICEV compared to EV.

23 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Isn't UPS buying a bunch of electric vans?  I would think UPS, Fed Ex, Amazon etc would be looking closely at electric vans, along w/ the USPS to replace the old Grumman boxes.

Yes, UPS, FedEx and USPS have all stated they plan to replace ICE auto's with EV's especially for inner city use or dense suburban areas. Just like they are replacing their Diesel semi's with LNG/CNG ones. All about reducing costs in maintenance, fuel and helping with cleaner air.

[ccap41]

Those are trucks, not work vans. 

[G. David Felt]

9 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Those are trucks, not work vans. 

UPS, FedEx use Vans for delivery here in Washington, have not had trucks in years. Maybe they still use the old trucks around you. But the Dually wheel sprinter Van is in use here. Those are 1 ton vans that would easily be replaced by a service version of this EV van.

USPS uses a weird range of vans and other auto's around here as I have seen less and less of the old traditional white box auto who ever built them.

These are very common here in the neighborhoods making deliveries. Easily replaced by an electric version.

Amazon Prime uses the Sprinter vans all over the west coast, easily replaced by an electric version.

UPS delivery vans like this is what we see every day on the streets and in the neighborhoods.

Same with Fedex

All these ICE vans can easily be replaced by electric versions.

[Robert Hall]

Around here in the Cleveland burbs, Amazon Prime and Fed Ex use Ford Transits (and there are plenty of Amazon sub contractors in all sorts of vehicles).  UPS still has the big brown unbranded trucks.  USPS still has the ancient Grumman trucks.

[Drew Dowdell]

UPS uses some electric van I don't recognize in downtown Pittsburgh for deliveries.  USPS uses fleets of Promasters.  Fedex is mainly Sprinters or Transits.

The Sprinters don't seem to hold up against rust, though that's not a powertrain deficiency. 

[G. David Felt]

27 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

UPS uses some electric van I don't recognize in downtown Pittsburgh for deliveries.  USPS uses fleets of Promasters.  Fedex is mainly Sprinters or Transits.

The Sprinters don't seem to hold up against rust, though that's not a powertrain deficiency. 

UPS uses Workhorse electric vans in the US and ARRIVAL electric vans in the UK.

https://pressroom.ups.com/pressroom/ContentDetailsViewer.page?ConceptType=PressReleases&id=1525867012405-924

https://pressroom.ups.com/pressroom/ContentDetailsViewer.page?ConceptType=PressReleases&id=1441744963510-216

https://pressroom.ups.com/pressroom/ContentDetailsViewer.page?ConceptType=PressReleases&id=1446039616630-395

[Potluck]

why do people think they have to stand in the way of progress. if you don't want one, don't buy one.