Mercedez Benz News 2020 Is The Last Model Year for the S65 with a V12

[Drew Dowdell]

The other day we shared a story about the final edition of the SLC Roadster, but buried in a press release for the Mercedes Benz GLC Shooting Brake being released in Geneva is an ominous line for lovers of big cylinder count engines. 

Quote

S 65 Final Edition, which crowns and brings to an end the long success story of the 6.0-litre V12 biturbo engine in the S-Class Saloon.

We can't say we weren't warned.  Mercedes-Benz told us last year that the V12 would be gradually phased out... a process that has already started in the G and SL class.  So with this announcement of a final edition for the S65 sedan, it is likely only a matter of time before the coupe and convertible follow. AMG has said they will keep building the V12 for other sub-brands. In this case, that likely means Maybach. 

This comes on the heels of the announcement that the next generation BMW 7-series could drop not only the V12, but the V8 as well. 

Mercedes has not yet released pictures or information on the S65 AMG Final Edition. 2018 Mercedes S65 shown above.

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[G. David Felt]

With Hybrid Power Trains and powerful Turbo small engines, this is understandable and really I see no need for the V12 and in many cases V8 engines. Sad as I like the Torque of a V8 over a Turbo 4 or 6 engine.

More excited when they show off the power of the Pure Electric motor for these cars. With 700 to 800 HP electric motors that have been shown, I would expect the S-Class to have the power of the Tesla Roadster 2.0 in that ubber luxury sedan first.

[smk4565]

I imagine 2020 or 2021 will be the final Maybach V12.  A new S-class is coming in 2021 and why bother making the car capable of fitting a V12 at this point.  They have shown a plug in hybrid bi-turbo V8, that seems like the path forward and S73 is already trademarked.  

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I imagine 2020 or 2021 will be the final Maybach V12.  A new S-class is coming in 2021 and why bother making the car capable of fitting a V12 at this point.  They have shown a plug in hybrid bi-turbo V8, that seems like the path forward and S73 is already trademarked.  

Yet with the proven Torque and power of Hybrid or pure EV power trains, I see no reason for a TTV8, might as well just make it a 4 or 6 banger with proper electric motors or pure electric for the 2020/2021 new model year.

[balthazar]

Get ready for another drop in mercedes car sales. Not just from the V-12 discontinuation... but from the thousands of people who bought a $30K CLA JUST BECAUSE there was a $150K V-12 available (that they had no intention OR means to buy). Could be catastrophic.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Yet with the proven Torque and power of Hybrid or pure EV power trains, I see no reason for a TTV8, might as well just make it a 4 or 6 banger with proper electric motors or pure electric for the 2020/2021 new model year.

A V8 plus electric motors is better than a V6 with electric motors.  And they have a mild hybrid I-6 now.

And they are making a full size EV sedan to sell along side the S-class.  So all bases covered.

22 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Get ready for another drop in mercedes car sales. Not just from the V-12 discontinuation... but from the thousands of people who bought a $30K CLA JUST BECAUSE there was a $150K V-12 available (that they had no intention OR means to buy). Could be catastrophic.

$250k for a V12, but the prestige will remain via cars like AMG One, and the S73.  That V12 helped make Mercedes the prestige brand for 30 years, but the next 10 will be hybrid power, then probably all EV after that.

[balthazar]

Nah- no one knows what an 's73' is- the halo effect rained down from the S65, and now that's dead. Flushed the halo effect down the drain and the reverberations will ripple all down the line and sedans sales will falter even faster than they already are.

You know - if you believe any of this bullshit.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

A V8 plus electric motors is better than a V6 with electric motors.  And they have a mild hybrid I-6 now.

And they are making a full size EV sedan to sell along side the S-class.  So all bases covered.

$250k for a V12, but the prestige will remain via cars like AMG One, and the S73.  That V12 helped make Mercedes the prestige brand for 30 years, but the next 10 will be hybrid power, then probably all EV after that.

Disagree with you on the V8 is better than V6, the global world is changing as to what is luxury and what it means and when you have double production but all sold out of the Porsche EV sedan, the added maintenance and cost of a TTV8 with mild Hybrid system will mean nothing.

As it is, without you constantly talking about the high end of MB, I would not know about the expanded bloat of the S-Class Maybach edition that I thought like most people was a failure and dead only to be brought back as a package on the S-Class. 

People wonder why Maybach cars are so cheap now. Guess cheaper yet. Most people who are badge snobs know of the S-Class and mostly the mid level line, the AMG S-Class cars, V12 have not made Mercedes the luxury snob they are. If you believe it, I have waterfront property in New Mexico to sell you.

[oldshurst442]

I guess Ferrari is better than Mercedes. 

 

 

Suck on that! 

[Drew Dowdell]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

... and S73 is already trademarked.  

 

Of course it is... because we wouldn't want to confuse people by reusing S65... 

I write about this stuff all the time and I still have yet to understand MB's number system. 

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

I guess Ferrari is better than Mercedes. 

 

 

Suck on that! 

Who won Formula 1 the past 5 years?  Because Ferrari was 2nd place all those years.

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Of course it is... because we wouldn't want to confuse people by reusing S65... 

I write about this stuff all the time and I still have yet to understand MB's number system. 

They did make an SL73 with a 7.3 liter V12 in the 90s, limited edition sort of car.  So they have used 73 before, I imagine since the S73 will be more powerful than S65 was, that is the thinking.  

Why they ever started to do AMG with 2 numbers when regular cars have 3, who knows.

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

Who won Formula 1 the past 5 years?  Because Ferrari was 2nd place all those years.

 

 

 

[balthazar]

Call me when the average consumer can buy a formula 1 car, and, Cadillac built an S75 for decades.
 

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Disagree with you on the V8 is better than V6, the global world is changing as to what is luxury and what it means and when you have double production but all sold out of the Porsche EV sedan, the added maintenance and cost of a TTV8 with mild Hybrid system will mean nothing.

As it is, without you constantly talking about the high end of MB, I would not know about the expanded bloat of the S-Class Maybach edition that I thought like most people was a failure and dead only to be brought back as a package on the S-Class. 

People wonder why Maybach cars are so cheap now. Guess cheaper yet. Most people who are badge snobs know of the S-Class and mostly the mid level line, the AMG S-Class cars, V12 have not made Mercedes the luxury snob they are. If you believe it, I have waterfront property in New Mexico to sell you.

If a V6 is better, why don't the Escalade and Corvette have a V6?  

Mercedes inline 6 is a mild hybrid, the 4 and V8 will be soon I imagine.  I the TT V8 will be a plug-in hybrid for AMG cars to get over 800 hp.  They make a full hybrid C-class and GLC yet I have never seen one.  So I think mild hybrid makes sense on gas cars for now.

They also make a 6-cylinder S-class now, so if that is the future, they already have that covered.

[oldshurst442]

Not a real Ferrari in the movie...but you get the idea...

Not a real Ferrari, but you get the idea

 

Not a V12...but a flat 12...but you get the idea

 

12 cylinders + Ferrari =  the best ?

Edited February 23, 2019 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

If a V6 is better, why don't the Escalade and Corvette have a V6?  

Mercedes inline 6 is a mild hybrid, the 4 and V8 will be soon I imagine.  I the TT V8 will be a plug-in hybrid for AMG cars to get over 800 hp.  They make a full hybrid C-class and GLC yet I have never seen one.  So I think mild hybrid makes sense on gas cars for now.

They also make a 6-cylinder S-class now, so if that is the future, they already have that covered.

Do I really need to point our the obvious?

Like MB, Cadillac is using what they have. There is nothing to say the TTV6 might not end up in the next refresh of Escalade.

YOU were talking about the FUTURE, I pointed out the OBVIOUS that with down sizing, taxes on engine size and the move to hybrid / ev that there seems to be little reason to justify a V8 in those cars. ?

[smk4565]

15 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

 

 

They have never beat Mercedes.  Mercedes beat them in 1954 and 1955 then Mercedes left racing.  Ferrari hasn't won an F1 championship since 2008, Mercedes returned as part owner of Braun supplying the engine in 2009 (and won the championship), before launching their own team in 2010.  Ferrari better enjoy the old trophies on the shelf because it could be a long time before they get any more.

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

They have never beat Mercedes.  Mercedes beat them in 1954 and 1955 then Mercedes left racing.  Ferrari hasn't won an F1 championship since 2008, Mercedes returned as part owner of Braun supplying the engine in 2009 (and won the championship), before launching their own team in 2010.  Ferrari better enjoy the old trophies on the shelf because it could be a long time before they get any more.

 

 

[smk4565]

9 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Do I really need to point our the obvious?

Like MB, Cadillac is using what they have. There is nothing to say the TTV6 might not end up in the next refresh of Escalade.

YOU were talking about the FUTURE, I pointed out the OBVIOUS that with down sizing, taxes on engine size and the move to hybrid / ev that there seems to be little reason to justify a V8 in those cars. ?

Yet Cadillac is launching a new TT V8 this year, and the mid-engine Corvette which is a year or 2 away will have a V8.  The V8 still has a future.  And Mercedes V8 is under the top displacement tax tier in China, where as none of GM's are because they refuse to downsize, same goes with Ford and FCA.  

The S550 went from a 5.5 liter engine in 2007 to 4.7 liter in 2012 and 4.0 liter in 2014, the S63 went from 6.2 liters in 2008 to 5.5 liter in 2012 and 4.0 liter in 2014.    That is a pretty aggressive downsizing plan.  

[oldshurst442]

20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Yet Cadillac is launching a new TT V8 this year, and the mid-engine Corvette which is a year or 2 away will have a V8.  The V8 still has a future.  And Mercedes V8 is under the top displacement tax tier in China, where as none of GM's are because they refuse to downsize, same goes with Ford and FCA.  

The S550 went from a 5.5 liter engine in 2007 to 4.7 liter in 2012 and 4.0 liter in 2014, the S63 went from 6.2 liters in 2008 to 5.5 liter in 2012 and 4.0 liter in 2014.    That is a pretty aggressive downsizing plan.  

Yet Ferrari...went from a 6.3 liter V12 to a...gulp...6.5 liter V12 in their 812 Superfast, that they will continue to build. 

Coincidentally, Chevy's, Dodge's and Ford's largest displacement V8s in their 700 plus horsepower behemoths are smaller than Ferrrari's 6.5 liter V12.. 

Hey...arent F1 engines 6 cylinder affairs nowadays? So what does F1 races have to do with 1%er V12 engines anyhow? 

Alls I know is that Ferrari is doing juuuuust fine with V12s and their supercars! 

sometimes downsizing doesnt always work while keeping the status quo works miracles...if past history taught us a lesson...

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by oldshurst442

[riviera74]

I just hope that the V8 does not become as rare as the V12 is today.

[Suaviloquent]

But.... but....

What if they gonna makes a V16???

 

Make Mercedes Great Again?! ?

[Drew Dowdell]

11 hours ago, riviera74 said:

I just hope that the V8 does not become as rare as the V12 is today.

It will.  Even in trucks.  V8s will be limited to the HD/SD trucks eventually.