Buick News: Buick Cascada Dead After 2019

[Drew Dowdell]

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I will assume they care about money though.
In my example above, I could make the same trip 6 or more times a day for the same initial price of $7, whereas Uber would cost over $400.  

It's the same thing WRT almost all EVs- do I care about 'saving' $150/mn in fuel costs when I have to spend $30,000 more to do so? That's 200 months, or 17 years to break even. I've been Jonesing to get into a new truck for a year now, and I've got 13 years behind it's wheel this summer.

But no one makes 6 trips to the grocery store in a single day, and if they do, they have other problems to worry about besides money.  It's the people who live closer to the city or public transit who are the likely candidates for what @daves87rs is talking about.  I say that because 27 miles round trip to the grocery store is not typical for anyone outside of very rural areas.  I have 2 grocery stores within a mile of my house and another 4 within 5 miles. 

[balthazar]

Just meant to be illustrative.  No; not going shopping for 6 trips, but it's nice to not have a financial albatross if one wanted to do so (or any combination of multiple destinations per day). I do errand days where I make 5 or even 7 stops. 

Or even just take a ride in the country.  Wife & I took a ride out to a hot dog stand we both enjoy (guy has been in business since '71!)- it's a 15 mile ride. Who's going to spend $70 to buy 3 or 4 $2 chili/cheese dogs?

With these costs in mind, one would naturally start curtailing their travels in order to save money. While saving money is virtuous, who wants to live that way? 

 

 

[smk4565]

7 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Mercedes sells the A-Class, B-Class, and SMART.  They certainly do play in "Chevy" markets even if they're priced outrageously for the content. And don't try to tell me the A-Class is "worth it" either. 

The A-class has a higher base price than all Chevy's except Volt, Bolt, Tahoe, Suburban, Corvette, Silverado HD and some commercial vehicles.    And A-class is more expensive than all Buicks except Enclave and the soon to be dead Cascada.  

I sat in an A-class today, that car is a bargain.  The Infotainment system that lives there and in the new GLE is years ahead of what anyone else has.

[smk4565]

7 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

You know that "entry level" luxury is an oxymoron, right?

You know that is not a thing, right? Like...even if the word "luxury" is in the phrase "entry level luxury", you know that is not real luxury, right?  What Mercedes sells is zircon to folk. So a better way of putting that is Mercedes Benz has fooled millions into buying zircon.

I hope you also know and understand that Chevy also sells a ton of "entry level" price tagged vehicles.  Or as you put it...luxury priced...

Because if you tally up all the HD Silverados and Tahoes and Suburbans, Chevy actually  sells MORE of those 3 than what all of Mercedes sells...

I wouldnt be tooting that too loudly, buddy.  That Mercedes sells lots and lots of C Class and A class cars and YOU try pass  those as 1%er vehicles... 

 

 

 

If we are going to use price as a measure of luxury, then a Sprinter is Cadillac level luxury.  Price does not equal luxury.  I never said Mercedes are 1% vehicles either, they have pretty high bandwidth going from $33,000 to $273,000, and that was my point, they have something for everyone.  (assuming you have the means to afford a new car, and I am aware that 7 million auto loans in the USA are 90 days past due because cars in general are too expensive)

Mercedes global sales for 2018 were

All A/B-class variants 609,000 (25% of their total volume)

C-class 397,000

E-class 355,000

S-class 78,000

GLC/GLE/GLS/G  820,000  (all SUV was lumped together in their annual report summary)

AMG vehicles 118,000

And keep in mind that Mercedes sold over 650,000 cars in China, which is going to favor smaller cars due to the taxes and costs and congestion there.   The majority of that A/B segment sales in where that is in high demand due to fuel prices, displacement taxes, etc.  And they are serving that need, not ignoring it.

[G. David Felt]

22 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The A-class has a higher base price than all Chevy's except Volt, Bolt, Tahoe, Suburban, Corvette, Silverado HD and some commercial vehicles.    And A-class is more expensive than all Buicks except Enclave and the soon to be dead Cascada.  

I sat in an A-class today, that car is a bargain.  The Infotainment system that lives there and in the new GLE is years ahead of what anyone else has.

Have to totally disagree with you on the retro style A-class dash starting at a mind numbing $32,995. The spec's show me I can get many superior auto options for that amount of money from US and Asian auto's. Hell what they are asking for is easily out classed by a higher quality CPO.

[smk4565]

8 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

The REAL question is how many 60 000 dollar priced vehicles (and over..but not less than 60 000)does Mercedes Benz really sell.  (Not city buses and Freightliner 18 wheelers) But honest to goodness 60 000 dollar REAL luxury cars and SUVs.

Because we DO know that Cadillac is at the 400 000 unit level.  OK...minus a few ATS cars...Cadillac at 350 000.

Not that real luxury cars should be measured by how many units sold...but since our resident M-B fan likes to hear his own voice on this, Im curious...

 

 

 

They sold more than anyone else.  Most Cadillacs are not $60,000, even a CT6 starts at $50,000, so with options that is above $60k but they sell like 25,000 of those worldwide per year.  Escalade sales are almost only in the USA, that is probably 30,000 or so a year.  

Just the E-class and S-class alone outsold the whole Cadillac line, and the E-class costs more than any Cadillac except Escalade, the S-class costs more than an Escalade.  

4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Have to totally disagree with you on the retro style A-class dash starting at a mind numbing $32,995. The spec's show me I can get many superior auto options for that amount of money from US and Asian auto's. Hell what they are asking for is easily out classed by a higher quality CPO.

You can't bet better infotainment in a BMW 7-series let alone anything else under $40k.  You can get more horsepower or interior space sure, probably won't get better interior materials or build quality at that price.  So it is a trade off, depends on what you prioritize.

[balthazar]

Yet mercedes & Cadillac ATPs are shocking close, and running #1 & #2 of all volume luxury brands.

[Drew Dowdell]

@smk4565 you can go by catalogue base price. 

[smk4565]

32 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Yet mercedes & Cadillac ATPs are shocking close, and running #1 & #2 of all volume luxury brands.

I bet all those XT4 sales skew that, because they will sell more of those than they do Escalades.  Cadillac has a high ATP now because the ATS is a sales failure and doesn't drag their average down.  Where as the C-class and 3-series sell well.

ATP is also pretty meaningless.  If Mercedes killed every car but the S-class and G-wagen they would have a $135,000 ATP and they would also go out of business the next day.   Land Rover probably has a nice ATP also with all SUVs and lots of high dollar ones at that, yet JLR lost over $4 billion last year and is in dire need of financing. 

[balthazar]

If ATP (what people are actually spending on an automotive purchase) is "pretty meaningless", without question base MSRP is 'completely meaningless', yet you mention it constantly.  I read that Cadillac already built out all 2019 2.0T CT6s before the end of last year when such was announced, so basically your oft-touted "$50K CT6" is non-existent.  It's also very likely how you mislead yourself as to Cadillac's ATPs being so close to MB and exceeding BMW & Audi.

[Cmicasa the Great]

ATP of the Escalade early last year was $87K. CTS was almost $59K. ATS was at $41K.

LAst year Cadillac sold about 376K vehicles in US, China, Can, Korea, and Russia

[regfootball]

Mercedes A Class interior is a complete POS trainwreck of a design.  But the fanbois will go for it

Edited February 18, 2019 by regfootball

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

ATP of the Escalade early last year was $87K. CTS was almost $59K. ATS was at $41K.

LAst year Cadillac sold about 376K vehicles in US, China, Can, Korea, and Russia

True facts.  And brand ATP is meaningless because brands are in different segments.  Comparing model vs model (direct competitors) ATP has some validity.  

[surreal1272]

Should have never arrived here in the first place. Swap out the Buick logo and replace it with a Chrysler logo, and you have the perfect recipe for something no one ever asked for. 

On 2/17/2019 at 6:05 PM, smk4565 said:

I bet all those XT4 sales skew that, because they will sell more of those than they do Escalades.  Cadillac has a high ATP now because the ATS is a sales failure and doesn't drag their average down.  Where as the C-class and 3-series sell well.

ATP is also pretty meaningless.  If Mercedes killed every car but the S-class and G-wagen they would have a $135,000 ATP and they would also go out of business the next day.   Land Rover probably has a nice ATP also with all SUVs and lots of high dollar ones at that, yet JLR lost over $4 billion last year and is in dire need of financing. 

I see bar moving is not a lost art form around here. You have tutored ATPs of Benz in the past (much like you do when sales are in your favor) yet dismiss here when it favors Cadillac. That bar has got to be tired from all that moving. 

[A Horse With No Name]

14 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Should have never arrived here in the first place. Swap out the Buick logo and replace it with a Chrysler logo, and you have the perfect recipe for something no one ever asked for. 

I see bar moving is not a lost art form around here. You have tutored ATPs of Benz in the past (much like you do when sales are in your favor) yet dismiss here when it favors Cadillac. That bar has got to be tired from all that moving. 

If anything was attached to that Bar he would be Mr universe in a bodybuilding competition....

[regfootball]

36 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Should have never arrived here in the first place. Swap out the Buick logo and replace it with a Chrysler logo, and you have the perfect recipe for something no one ever asked for. 

I see bar moving is not a lost art form around here. You have tutored ATPs of Benz in the past (much like you do when sales are in your favor) yet dismiss here when it favors Cadillac. That bar has got to be tired from all that moving. 

The Sebring convertible was a good seller and I think Buick brought the cascada over to plug that rental convertible gap when the Sebring went away. 

Cascada should have had more motor. 

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, regfootball said:

The Sebring convertible was a good seller and I think Buick brought the cascada over to plug that rental convertible gap when the Sebring went away. 

Cascada should have had more motor. 

Or Just Moar.....given its price point.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, regfootball said:

The Sebring convertible was a good seller and I think Buick brought the cascada over to plug that rental convertible gap when the Sebring went away. 

Cascada should have had more motor. 

It was just too small. It should have been a Regal convertible instead of a Verano convertible. 

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, regfootball said:

The Sebring convertible was a good seller and I think Buick brought the cascada over to plug that rental convertible gap when the Sebring went away. 

Cascada should have had more motor. 

The Sebring was a good seller becuase it was a rental queen, not to mention a garbage car. Convertible Models that didn’t originate with a sports car (ie. Stang, Camaro, Vette) have been a non-starter for the domestic makes for decades now, despite efforts to change that. Not enough real interest and no one wants to spend the money to develop one anymore, in this CUV happy climate. Personally, I don’t really care about them, one want or the other. Just not for me, as far as daily drivers go.

[Drew Dowdell]

38 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

The Sebring was a good seller becuase it was a rental queen, not to mention a garbage car. Convertible Models that didn’t originate with a sports car (ie. Stang, Camaro, Vette) have been a non-starter for the domestic makes for decades now, despite efforts to change that. Not enough real interest and no one wants to spend the money to develop one anymore, in this CUV happy climate. Personally, I don’t really care about them, one want or the other. Just not for me, as far as daily drivers go.

In another climate I might be interested in a convertible, but not here in Pittsburgh.  The last time I was in Houston I had a Camaro convertible for 4 days and I only put the top up once while I was driving it.