TAKE THAT KRAUTS: The 2019 Cadillac CTS-V Will Be One of the All-Time Greats

[Cmicasa the Great]

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There’s no hard and fast rule about what makes a great car or what classifies one as an instant classic. The hall of fame is filled with vehicles like the Land Rover Defender, the Lamborghini Countach, the Citroen DS 21 and the DMC DeLorean, to name a few. It’s an eclectic group. Generally, design, timing, purpose and, performance can be factors into determining a car’s greatness. When it comes to the last generation of the CTS-V, it’s all of the above.

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For the third generation, which bowed in 2015, everything seemed to come together. There was a bold design language inside and out. Granted, thin piano black plastic trim pieces still made their way to the dash, console and steering wheel. But, under the hood, the CTS-V got a 640 horsepower supercharged V8 from the Corvette. It cranked out 630 lb-ft of torque from a lowly 3,600 RPM. Some might say it’s too much power for any real-world driving, but that’s half the Caddy’s charm — how it earned its nickname, “the four-door Corvette.” But in reality, the CTS-V is more fine-tuned than that.

 

Gear Patrol

[A Horse With No Name]

Absolutely one of the coolest cars available anywhere at any price.

[Robert Hall]

Love that photo...under a bridge somewhere..

[A Horse With No Name]

27 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Love that photo...under a bridge somewhere..

This is winning me back to American cars. Lexus has not upgraded the Is since the mid 2000's in a substantial way...this is impressively fresh by comparison.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Gear Patrol

Gotta love the New Instagram marketing.

[Cmicasa the Great]

GM really doesn't have to do anything serious to the Chassis in transitioning it to the CT5 to make it better than what BMW, Lexus, Benz, or Audi have going. I'd say that I'm betting good money that they have utilized techniques from the Omega platform to lighten AlphaII a bit and incorporate AWD this time around for the V. Let me me be clear.. my RWD 16 CTS-V is not only leaps better than my two previous '05, '09 and 12 Sigma STS and CTS-Vs, but they genuinely are better in performance and versatility than everyone of my friends or colleagues Ms, AMGs, or RSs. The only one that I feel has a leg up on the CTS-V currently is the Panamara Turbo, and that has a lot to do with the AWD and Dual Clutch. The price wasn't worth it to me.. and I the extra $50K I used towards trading my Corvette Z51 in for a Z06

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

GM really doesn't have to do anything serious to the Chassis in transitioning it to the CT5 to make it better than what BMW, Lexus, Benz, or Audi have going. I'd say that I'm betting good money that they have utilized techniques from the Omega platform to lighten AlphaII a bit and incorporate AWD this time around for the V. Let me me be clear.. my RWD 16 CTS-V is not only leaps better than my two previous '05, '09 and 12 Sigma STS and CTS-Vs, but they genuinely are better in performance and versatility than everyone of my friends or colleagues Ms, AMGs, or RSs. The only one that I feel has a leg up on the CTS-V currently is the Panamara Turbo, and that has a lot to do with the AWD and Dual Clutch. The price wasn't worth it to me.. and I the extra $50K I used towards trading my Corvette Z51 in for a Z06

Cadillac needs to spend their efforts on the interior, both in materials and technology such as a voice command assistant and autonomous tech.  All wheel drive should fix the traction and handling issue, although they might want to look into a mild hybrid system or some sort of electrification for the 2020s.  

[regfootball]

Neither the CTS-V or the CTS V sport have available AWD.  It would have been nice for Cadillac to have included it as an option, at least on the V-Sport.

Interested to see what the new Ct4 or 5 or whatever is like, although if the interior is like the XT4, it's nice but its not luxury....

[riviera74]

What is more important to a V series: performance or interior luxury?  Asking for a friend.

[smk4565]

17 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

What is more important to a V series: performance or interior luxury?  Asking for a friend.

You need both.  The CT6 interior is about A6 or C-class level, CT5 needs to be a level above the CT6 interior to have a chance.  An E63 or M5 or RS7 has an interior better than the standard car plus performance.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

You need both.  The CT6 interior is about A6 or C-class level, CT5 needs to be a level above the CT6 interior to have a chance.  An E63 or M5 or RS7 has an interior better than the standard car plus performance.

I have to disagree with you SMK, I have NOT been impressed with the performance car interiors you stated above and feel that the V Series is on par with them. If anything, the Piano Black surface is not what people are expecting on the performance auto and more of a carbon finish which has only been out recently. 

I do agree with you and everyone else that Cadillac needs to step up their game on the interiors, but they made some poor decisions on performance interior probably by a bean counting Couch potato that has no clue about performance.

[Robert Hall]

The thing I've noticed is the performance trim versions of luxury cars all too often means dour all-gray or all-black interiors, and disgusting carbon fiber...too boring... I'd rather see more colorful, luxurious interiors w/ the performance packages (color choices in the leather, a variety of wood trim options, etc).   Audi does a good job sometimes w/ the color, though..I like this interior (would be better without the CF shit, though). 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

12 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

The thing I've noticed is the performance trim versions of luxury cars all too often means dour all-gray or all-black interiors, and disgusting carbon fiber...too boring... I'd rather see more colorful, luxurious interiors w/ the performance packages (color choices in the leather, a variety of wood trim options, etc).   Audi does a good job sometimes w/ the color, though..I like this interior (would be better without the CF shit, though). 

Yet those that I work with that have performance auto's they just love the CF stuff and usually add more to the auto. Very crazy.

I will say that the NAV looks like an after thought to the dash and that seems to be a theme in which I agree with this story of the ugliest NAV systems at the Chicago auto show.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/26426/the-5-ugliest-infotainment-screens-of-the-2019-chicago-auto-show

Even the Lincoln new CUVs are on the list due to that ugly after thought nav screen.

They should be properly integrated into the dash.

[Robert Hall]

Yeah, I don't get the CF trim craze. I understand it is a strong yet light material, very useful in race cars for structure.  But I find the appearance revolting, would never want it exposed in an interior or exterior of a vehicle I owned.

   Alas, the tablet glued on the dash style of NAV system seems to be where the industry is going to it seems.  I prefer the integrated approach also. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Robert Hall

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

The thing I've noticed is the performance trim versions of luxury cars all too often means dour all-gray or all-black interiors, and disgusting carbon fiber...too boring... I'd rather see more colorful, luxurious interiors w/ the performance packages (color choices in the leather, a variety of wood trim options, etc).   Audi does a good job sometimes w/ the color, though..I like this interior (would be better without the CF $h!, though). 

I agree, too much dark gray and black in the performance trim interiors on any brand.  The E53 actually has more interior color choices than the E63, which doesn’t make a lot of sense.

[Cmicasa the Great]

19 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

The thing I've noticed is the performance trim versions of luxury cars all too often means dour all-gray or all-black interiors, and disgusting carbon fiber...too boring... I'd rather see more colorful, luxurious interiors w/ the performance packages (color choices in the leather, a variety of wood trim options, etc).   Audi does a good job sometimes w/ the color, though..I like this interior (would be better without the CF $h!, though). 

I see the red interior of the CTS just as nice as the Audi.. in fact I prefer it

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

21 hours ago, smk4565 said:

You need both.  The CT6 interior is about A6 or C-class level, CT5 needs to be a level above the CT6 interior to have a chance.  An E63 or M5 or RS7 has an interior better than the standard car plus performance.

Again U are trippin. I actually have doubts that U even seen a CT6 interior let alone spent any time in one. Now again, I can not and will not speak for the bottom trims of the CT6 as I have only ventured into the cockpits of the Premium Lux and PLatinum.. but both of those are easily on par with the 7Series, S-Class,  A8.. and beats the Jag XJ . The only time I will give the Germans an edge is the choices of colors and textures avail. Cadillac definitely needs to offer more choices in regards to colors and such, even thought I hate that BS quilted look, some see that gaudy design as luxury, where I feel like I just stepped into a Bulgarian Whore house

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

some see that gaudy design as luxury, where I feel like I just stepped into a Bulgarian Whore house

On some cars, I like that Bulgarian Whore house look, on others not so much.

I DO prefer the French Whore house look though...

I miss the velour and puffy leather interiors of the 1970s and to a lesser extent the 1980s.

Cadillac may not need the quilted look if they do the Escala interior though. THIS is VERY classy! 

 

 

[Robert Hall]

I like two tone interior options w/ red, saddle tan, cream, brown, etc... color can be a great thing in an interior, just tired of dour all black or 50 shades of gray interiors...   I do like that Escala interior.   that CTS interior w/ the red and gray looks ideal for an Ohio State fan. 

[regfootball]

23 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

The thing I've noticed is the performance trim versions of luxury cars all too often means dour all-gray or all-black interiors, and disgusting carbon fiber...too boring... I'd rather see more colorful, luxurious interiors w/ the performance packages (color choices in the leather, a variety of wood trim options, etc).   Audi does a good job sometimes w/ the color, though..I like this interior (would be better without the CF shit, though). 

I am so tired of all black interiors.  Its partly that way because its a cop out that the car can't be sold at a dealer unless it has a 'safe' color.  The dealer folks will say a colored interior may keep the car from being sold.  

I think this is actually a big opportunity for manufacturers to develop a custom build process then.  

[Robert Hall]

Just now, regfootball said:

 The dealer folks will say a colored interior may keep the car from being sold.   

the general buying public are so damn boring in their car color choices...

[regfootball]

yes, they are.  but the dealer has to pay money to hold the car in inventory on the chance someone walks in and buys it that day.  The dealer wants to make that sale immediately when the customer is on site.  And so by only offering black, they play if safe and it takes away more possible customer objections.

that's why for luxury cars, if we offer more colorful choices inside, i think it has to become a custom sort of process.

for the non sport models, cadillac actually on some trims at least has a tan and gray palette available.  that alone is a godsend.  Look at chevy.  I think 90+% of the cars on their lots are all black inside.

Edited February 13, 2019 by regfootball

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Again U are trippin. I actually have doubts that U even seen a CT6 interior let alone spent any time in one. Now again, I can not and will not speak for the bottom trims of the CT6 as I have only ventured into the cockpits of the Premium Lux and PLatinum.. but both of those are easily on par with the 7Series, S-Class,  A8.. and beats the Jag XJ . The only time I will give the Germans an edge is the choices of colors and textures avail. Cadillac definitely needs to offer more choices in regards to colors and such, even thought I hate that BS quilted look, some see that gaudy design as luxury, where I feel like I just stepped into a Bulgarian Whore house

If the CT6 interior was as good as a German car, and it costs $30k less, why do the 7-series and S-class outsell it here and even by wider margin in China?

I have sat in a CT6 it was at the auto show probably a mid grade one, but it is not as nice as a 5-series let alone a 7.  CT6 interior should be what Cadillac has in mind for the CT4 and work up from there.

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

On some cars, I like that Bulgarian Whore house look, on others not so much.

I DO prefer the French Whore house look though...

I miss the velour and puffy leather interiors of the 1970s and to a lesser extent the 1980s.

Cadillac may not need the quilted look if they do the Escala interior though. THIS is VERY classy! 

 

 

It probably wouldn't pass the bean counter test but I second that notion. That is actually an interior concept that would translate nicely into CT6 size (or larger, hello CT7?) Caddy and would absolutely shame anything from Europe or anywhere else, for that matter.

Edited February 13, 2019 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

If the CT6 interior was as good as a German car, and it costs $30k less, why do the 7-series and S-class outsell it here and even by wider margin in China?

I have sat in a CT6 it was at the auto show probably a mid grade one, but it is not as nice as a 5-series let alone a 7.  CT6 interior should be what Cadillac has in mind for the CT4 and work up from there.

You do realize that your sales logic can be used against you here right? See Escalade sales versus anything of competing nature from Benz. Now would you say they outsell the Benz because of the much better materials and price difference? Oh, and after spending 20 miles driving a 2015 C63 AMG, I'm just going to call BS on that top notch interior non-sense. Newsflash Mercedes, don't ever make a white leather seat ever again. Simply atrocious after only three years of use (and only 29K miles on the car). Oh and don't get me started on the glued on glorified iPad on top of the dash.

[Cmicasa the Great]

5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If the CT6 interior was as good as a German car, and it costs $30k less, why do the 7-series and S-class outsell it here and even by wider margin in China?

I have sat in a CT6 it was at the auto show probably a mid grade one, but it is not as nice as a 5-series let alone a 7.  CT6 interior should be what Cadillac has in mind for the CT4 and work up from there.

Its no secret that I don't like U and wish that U and your kind would all move to Germany and never be allowed back into this country. The price point was done because the car was moving into a segment that it had invented, but had been absent from for all of 20 years. Also Any moron can see that the CT6 when equipped like a 7 Series is almost the exact same price. A Platinum CT6 3.0L is almost spot on the 740i here and the CT6 Platinum V8 will most likely be the same price as a 750i..

 

Oh and this is the Luxury interior. The Premium and Platinum are equipped with better materials. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Cmicasa the Great

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Its no secret that I don't like U and wish that U and your kind would all move to Germany and never be allowed back into this country. The price point was done because the car was moving into a segment that it had invented, but had been absent from for all of 20 years. Also Any moron can see that the CT6 when equipped like a 7 Series is almost the exact same price. A Platinum CT6 3.0L is almost spot on the 740i here and the CT6 Platinum V8 will most likely be the same price as a 750i..

 

Oh and this is the Luxury interior. The Premium and Platinum are equipped with better materials. 

Don’t hate on me, hate on  Cadillac for not building a better car.  A maxed out CT6 is cheaper than a base model S560.  The S560 can go over $150,000 with options and that is before you get into AMG or Maybach.  7-series can go over $190k for a 760.  

Cadillac isn’t alone, the Lexus interiors trail behind any of the Germans too and the GS F is slow and the LS has no engine upgrade.  They are just as bad and uncompetitive.  I seem to remember a Motor Trend comparison of a CT6 and an E-class and they knocked the CT6 interior, if it can’t beat an E-class it is no S or 7.  

Plus there are people for who a 400 hp V6 isn’t enough, CT6 stops at a level some won’t even consider, they fixed that with the V8 for the 2019, but even still you can’t get a refrigerator in a CT6, you can’t get Level 3 Autonomy like an A8 has, 7-series has hand gesture controls, etc.  

[oldshurst442]

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

7-series has hand gesture controls

That is a gimmick

 

We replaced a relative cheap way to lower the volume of a radio buy simply turning a knob with an expensive and complex system with the irony of using literally the same movenments...in the air...

Just like playing air guitar...

That is plain stupidity NOT luxury...

[riviera74]

Air gestures over knobs and buttons are not wise in any car.  Occasionally we run into technology that makes things worse.  I would NEVER recommend a PC with a touch screen, but that is OK for a tablet/smartphone.  Our cars should minimize distractions, not encourage them since distracted driving is becoming more of an issue these days.

[smk4565]

This has a top speed of 205 mph, making it the fastest sedan in the world (factory produced).  Gauntlet thrown, are the Lexus LS or Cadillac CT6 going to beat it?  I hope AMG steps up to the challenge.

[Suaviloquent]

7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

This has a top speed of 205 mph, making it the fastest sedan in the world (factory produced).  Gauntlet thrown, are the Lexus LS or Cadillac CT6 going to beat it?  I hope AMG steps up to the challenge.

Okay major points for BMW for at least putting classy green paint on that thing.

I thought that grille would look awful, but it works here.

?

[balthazar]

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If the CT6 interior was as good as a German car, and it costs $30k less, why do the 7-series and S-class outsell it here...?

CT6 outsold the 7-series in the US in 2018, in fact it almost outsold the 7-series and A8 combined.
Guess it's better than 2 Germans cars.

15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

This has a top speed of 205 mph, making it the fastest sedan in the world (factory produced).

Wow, how many years did it take for BMW to best Cadillac by a measly 5 MPH?

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

CT6 outsold the 7-series in the US in 2018, in fact it almost outsold the 7-series and A8 combined.
Guess it's better than 2 Germans cars.

Wow, how many years did it take for BMW to best Cadillac by a measly 5 MPH?

The 2005 BMW M5 could go 200 mph with the speed limiter removed but it did have that governor put on there.   CTS-V can hit 200 mph, but we are talking about a car bigger than a CT6, with a lot more weight (4,820 lbs) to move in the Alpina B7.   And this thread was about the CT6 rivaling the best German sedans, which you have to throw the Panamera and maybe AMG GT63 4-door in there too.   

I still see the CT6 as more of an E-class/5-series rival that is just bigger.  Maybe Lexus LS level when you have the V8 model added in there, it can offer the muscle the Lexus can't, even if it doesn't have Lexus reliability/quality.  We can call that an even match up.

But neither the CT6 or LS are "ready for prime time" of that $100-200k segment, they just aren't that level.

[balthazar]

Maybe, but the '05 M5 wasn't "factory produced" that way. And Alpina is an aftermarket tuner. If Alpina is 'in', so is the '12 Hennessey CTS-V, which went 221 MPH.

Quote

this thread was about the CT6 rivaling the best German sedans

As usual- you stated that criteria was determined by sales, and specifically mentioned the CT6 and the 7-series. A statement that I answered.

Edited February 14, 2019 by balthazar

[smk4565]

This is the 2019 CT6 V-sport backseat:

And a 760

And an S-class Maybach

 

 

Edited February 14, 2019 by smk4565

[smk4565]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Maybe, but the '05 M5 wasn't "factory produced" that way. And Alpina is an aftermarket tuner. If Alpina is 'in', so is the '12 Hennessey CTS-V, which went 221 MPH.

As usual- you stated that criteria was determined by sales, and specifically mentioned the CT6 and the 7-series. A statement that I answered.

Alpina counts it is on BMW's website.  You can't buy a Hennessey car are a Cadillac dealer.  That is why I left off the Brabus S-class that does 227 mph, I don't care what an aftermarket tuner does that voids out a warranty and could blow the engine.  For stock factory cars the BMW Alpina B7 is the fastest one, which actually pisses me off because I don't like BMW, that is the real enemy of my brand.

The A8 doesn't sell here at all, in China they clean up though, so on a global basis the A8 does alright.  7-series was in a model change over at the end of the year, plus the CT6 is 5-series money.  The 5-series easily outsells the CT6, and the top end 5-series costs more than the top CT6.  If the CT6 was 7-series money, it would sell 200 a month like the A8 does.

2019 CT6 is $50,495         CT6-V $87,795

2019 5-series is $53,400  M5 $102,700

2019 7-series is $83,650  M760li  $156,700

And those are base prices before options list for the lowest model and the base price of the top trim.  

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Alpina counts it is on BMW's website

• You stated "factory produced". Alpina modifies BMWs in their OWN garage, not in a BMW assembly plant. Where you physically buy it is irrelevant; it's not 'factory'.
• You stated the 7-series outsells the CT6 in the US. It didn't for the last calendar year, and it wasn't really close.

Edited February 14, 2019 by balthazar

[Cmicasa the Great]

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

This is the 2019 CT6 V-sport backseat:

And a 760

And an S-class Maybach

 

 

Gotta love how Smky always posts REAL LIFE AUTOSHOW pics of Cadillac but gets the airbrushed ones for his GErman loves.

[A Horse With No Name]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

This has a top speed of 205 mph, making it the fastest sedan in the world (factory produced).  Gauntlet thrown, are the Lexus LS or Cadillac CT6 going to beat it?  I hope AMG steps up to the challenge.

This just singularly the worst luxury car styling I have seen in half a century.

8 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Gotta love how Smky always posts REAL LIFE AUTOSHOW pics of Cadillac but gets the airbrushed ones for his GErman loves.

And this is among the best. In my history here I have trash talked GM a lot of times, not a fanboi of any brand....but this is just plain hot. In it's own way, 58 Eldorado Biarritz hot.

The Rolling Stones sang a song with rather obscene lyrics about a dead man doing something....the Caddy pics above would make a dead man feel something.

 

And now I am starting to feel like Olds Hurst because I am posting music videos while talking about cars.

Someone please slip something into my coffee to tranquilize me before I post any more....

(Horse ducks from wrench thrown at him from Montreal.,...)

[A Horse With No Name]

12 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

... but gets the airbrushed ones....

Rumor is he likes his women airbrushed as well.

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The 2005 BMW M5 could go 200 mph with the speed limiter removed but it did have that governor put on there.   CTS-V can hit 200 mph, but we are talking about a car bigger than a CT6, with a lot more weight (4,820 lbs) to move in the Alpina B7.   And this thread was about the CT6 rivaling the best German sedans, which you have to throw the Panamera and maybe AMG GT63 4-door in there too.   

I still see the CT6 as more of an E-class/5-series rival that is just bigger.  Maybe Lexus LS level when you have the V8 model added in there, it can offer the muscle the Lexus can't, even if it doesn't have Lexus reliability/quality.  We can call that an even match up.

But neither the CT6 or LS are "ready for prime time" of that $100-200k segment, they just aren't that level.

And here in some ways I will agree with you. Niether is the Miata....it isn't a bad car for its segment. Quit comparing cars from the 50-90K segment to cars that cost 150K. It's intellectually disingenuous.

On 2/13/2019 at 6:57 AM, Cmicasa the Great said:

I see the red interior of the CTS just as nice as the Audi.. in fact I prefer it

 

And you are biased towards Cadillac....I love Audi....and will tell you....it's every bit as nice. In fact I might prefer the Cadillac version myself, honestly.

[Cmicasa the Great]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

This has a top speed of 205 mph, making it the fastest sedan in the world (factory produced).  Gauntlet thrown, are the Lexus LS or Cadillac CT6 going to beat it?  I hope AMG steps up to the challenge.

Didn't see this post. The CTS-V has been known to hit 204. The Germs beat it by 1 MPH

[Robert Hall]

Of course, the potential top speed of a car has no meaning in the real world, just an internet arguing point of little value.  

[A Horse With No Name]

10 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Didn't see this post. The CTS-V has been known to hit 204. The Germs beat it by 1 MPH

Good thing....given how hideous the front end of that thing is, no one should look at it. Hopefully the tail lights are not quite as hideous.

[Cmicasa the Great]

2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Of course, the potential top speed of a car has no meaning in the real world, just an internet arguing point of little value.  

In childish fashion.. "He started it." I mean seriously.. every comment by him is normally  accompanied by 0-60 times or something. We could be talking about Sprinter Vans vs Chevy Express vans and some how we'll be bathed in a debate on which was is best around the Nur' Ring

[A Horse With No Name]

2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Of course, the potential top speed of a car has no meaning in the real world, just an internet arguing point of little value.  

IF you hit 200 plus miles per hour on the way to the golf course, you are doing it either very wrong or very right.  Really, at 2000 miles per hour should be modified with full safety eq1uipment and operating at a sanctioned event at an actual race track. Lots of better choices than the caddy and the BMW for that.

GM does compete in Nascar, and used NASCAR race cars are fairly cheap for what you get. There are vintage racing organizations that race them. QA vintage Impala SS or Monte SS, and a GMC Denali as a tow vehicle and you are set. Nothing Mercedes builds is anywhere near as competitive for affordable racing.

1 minute ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

In childish fashion.. "He started it." I mean seriously.. every comment by him is normally  accompanied by 0-60 times or something. We could be talking about Sprinter Vans vs Chevy Express vans and some how we'll be bathed in a debate on which was is best around the Nur' Ring

The Sprinter has a very low production option Germany only that has a Maybach V12, so obviously all
Chevy vans are junk.  Or so the argument would go.

[Cmicasa the Great]

2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Good thing....given how hideous the front end of that thing is, no one should look at it. Hopefully the tail lights are not quite as hideous.

The grill is just HUGE.  This is really the last time I thought the 7Series was a looker

 

[A Horse With No Name]

15 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Didn't see this post. The CTS-V has been known to hit 204. The Germs beat it by 1 MPH

Probably driving downhill. Lots of variables like wind speed and track surface make 1 MPH irrelevant.

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

In childish fashion.. "He started it." I mean seriously.. every comment by him is normally  accompanied by 0-60 times or something. We could be talking about Sprinter Vans vs Chevy Express vans and some how we'll be bathed in a debate on which was is best around the Nur' Ring

Transit vans are the best around the Nurburgring from what I've read.   Magazine stats such 0-60, quarter mile, top speed were the arguing points of car crazed teenagers in study hall...I remember such debates w/ my buddies on the latest car details from Car & Driver, Road & Track, etc back in '85-86...    

[Cmicasa the Great]

Just now, Robert Hall said:

Transit vans are the best around the Nurburgring from what I've read.   Magazine stats such 0-60, quarter mile, top speed were the arguing points of car crazed teenagers in study hall...I remember such debates w/ my buddies on the latest car details from Car & Driver, Road & Track, etc back in '85-86...    

Which brings up a valid question.. how old is Smk?

 

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, Robert Hall said:

Transit vans are the best around the Nurburgring from what I've read.   Magazine stats such 0-60, quarter mile, top speed were the arguing points of car crazed teenagers in study hall...I remember such debates w/ my buddies on the latest car details from Car & Driver, Road & Track, etc back in '85-86...    

And even most teenagers now could care less.