Cadillac News: Cadillac CT6: I'm Not Dead Yet (For U.S.)

[oldshurst442]

8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Maybe in Germany they like luxurious taxis

 Maybe they do...

The problem with the Mercedes Taxis in Europe is that they are built and sold like Chevrolet taxis here. And...there are trim levels of those Mercedes cars that are EXACTLY how the Impala LTs are over here. In fact, an Impala LTZ is miles ahead in terms of luxury where those E Class Mercedes cars of Europe are...

Sure, the E Class of Europe is also sold with the same high end luxurious stuff we get in North America. But the E Class is also bought and sold like an Impala LT as well...

[oldshurst442]

16 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

that are reliable and can go 300,000 miles or more

Sure, the old W123 was built like a tank. Especially the diesel. Lots of those in Africa and in Europe.  But you know what?  

The 1977 downsized Chevy Bel Air/Impala/Caprice was also built like a tank. 

The thing is, today's Mercedes is nowhere near that level...

[Cmicasa the Great]

7 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 Maybe they do...

The problem with the Mercedes Taxis in Europe is that they are built and sold like Chevrolet taxis here. And...there are trim levels of those Mercedes cars that are EXACTLY how the Impala LTs are over here. In fact, an Impala LTZ is miles ahead in terms of luxury where those E Class Mercedes cars of Europe are...

Sure, the E Class of Europe is also sold with the same high end luxurious stuff we get in North America. But the E Class is also bought and sold like an Impala LT as well...

As much as he cheer leads Germany... I have a real feeling that he's never been there

[Robert Hall]

So?  Mercedes are used as taxis in Europe because they are reliable and durable.  I don’t see how that has any relevance to anything else.  Priuses are used as taxis in the US, yet people still but them.  

Mercedes-Benz has a long history of commercial vehicles--from taxis, to Sprinter vans, to heavy trucks and buses, so that's just part of their product line along w/ luxury cars and SUVs, so nothing out of the ordinary. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

33 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 I don't think Daimler cares who buys their cars, they like every other car company are in business to make money.  I am sure Cadillac would love to get 10,000 orders for Escalade taxis to make money off it.

Oh...I think Mercedes cares...

In Europe they dont. Because in Europe  Mercedes has a history of re-building European confidence and sold cars to match a re-building Europe after the war. Hence the W123...

Cadillac was never put in a position like that. Well, the idiot CEOs of the 1980s wanted a Cadillac for every American garage with the likes of the Cimarron and look what happened to that Cadillac image...

Mercedes tried that too over here...

But it did not go too well, they since changed their strategy with the CLA...but its still a cheap econobox.

Cadillac has not done that with the ATS but its Cadillac that gets shafted by the badge snobs and the shyte American automotive press...

Point being...

Luxury cars are just that...luxury cars.  Not meant for the masses...

Taxis and luxury cars are at the opposite ends of the spectrum.  Limo service is to cater to the affluent. And they need the Escalades and the S Classes. Taxis are meant for the masses.

Edited January 17, 2019 by oldshurst442

[ocnblu]

Did Mark Reuss just say that going EV is Cadillac's "LAST CHANCE"?  Wow.  What a complete jackass.  I do not care who his daddy was.

[oldshurst442]

30 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

So?  Mercedes are used as taxis in Europe because they are reliable and durable.  I don’t see how that has any relevance to anything else.  Priuses are used as taxis in the US, yet people still but them.  

Mercedes-Benz has a long history of commercial vehicles--from taxis, to Sprinter vans, to heavy trucks and buses, so that's just part of their product line along w/ luxury cars and SUVs, so nothing out of the ordinary. 

Yes. But in Europe. Not here in North America.

Cadillac was NEVER a full line brand with commercial trucks, military trucks, buses, taxis...

There were Cadillac hearses and ambulances, but those were aftermarket outfitters that did the conversions. Not from the factory. 

Mercedes, if marketed properly, could succeed as a full line brand in North America. They keep slippin though. 

Cadillac cant. No amount of marketing would make Cadillac a full line brand. If Cadillac succeeded in making an alternative to a Chevrolet Malibu Premier, People would not buy the CT6 Blackwing if Cadillac would succeed to be an alternative to a Malibu Premier. 

And honestly, do we, the people of North America, really want Cadillac to sell us their version of the Malibu Premier and their competitor to the Mercedes Sprinter?

I dont think GM CEOs want that either. Maybe owners of Cadillac dealers want that...

I fell in love with the Mercedes Sprinter this past summer on our family vacation to Greece. But its not the Sprinter that inspires me to own a Mercedes one day...

Is this how we should look at Mercedes and Cadillac? 

Boy, that Sprinter hauls so much stuff...I must buy the SL Black Series right now!!!

In Europe,  there is no disconnect with a Mercedes in every garage philosophy. There is no lapse from traveling in the subway and then getting on a Mercedes city bus and then seeing a rich dude pull up in front of the bus in his SL when you get off the next bus stop.  In the US...we havent seen that, have we?

Cadillac tried that sort of thing and failed, because Cadillac should ONLY sell to the 1%ers. THAT is how we view Cadillac and we should continue to do so...because Cadillac always sold dreams to us and actually sold those dreams for real to the 1%ers...

Edited January 17, 2019 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

 Maybe they do...

The problem with the Mercedes Taxis in Europe is that they are built and sold like Chevrolet taxis here. And...there are trim levels of those Mercedes cars that are EXACTLY how the Impala LTs are over here. In fact, an Impala LTZ is miles ahead in terms of luxury where those E Class Mercedes cars of Europe are...

Sure, the E Class of Europe is also sold with the same high end luxurious stuff we get in North America. But the E Class is also bought and sold like an Impala LT as well...

Yet Lexus or Cadillac could never penetrate Europe with their so called luxury cars.  

And no, I have never been to Germany, nor do I have any German decent in my family.  

And Mercedes is Europe's #1 commercial truck producer, so that commercial market is part of their business.

[smk4565]

42 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Did Mark Reuss just say that going EV is Cadillac's "LAST CHANCE"?  Wow.  What a complete jackass.  I do not care who his daddy was.

Maybe it is their last chance.  Buick has better volume in China and they are a lower price point but the growth is slowing there anyway.  

Who knows what GM upper management is thinking, they haven't had the best of leadership over the past 30 years.

[oldshurst442]

4 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Yet Lexus or Cadillac could never penetrate Europe with their so called luxury cars.  

And no, I have never been to Germany, nor do I have any German decent in my family.  

And Mercedes is Europe's #1 commercial truck producer, so that commercial market is part of their business.

Because Europeans are very patriotic towards their cars.  The French will only buy French cars.  Italians will only buy Italian cars Germans laugh at everything that is not German.  

Hell, the Japanese are the same way. They only buy Japanese cars

Only the Americans, and the British, are not that way towards their automotive industry...

Maybe you need to see other places?  Germany is  a beautiful country. Europe is a must at least once in your lifetime...

THAT is what I am sayin...Mercedes ALWAYS built other things in Europe. Mercedes Benz is NOT just a luxury brand. 

They are everything in Europe. 

Cadillac is JUST a luxury brand. They dont do anything else but luxury since the 1st day they were makin' cars.  Over 100 years ago...

Cadillac is not, should not, be about volume...

 

[smk4565]

16 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Because Europeans are very patriotic towards their cars.  The French will only buy French cars.  Italians will only buy Italian cars Germans laugh at everything that is not German.  

Hell, the Japanese are the same way. They only buy Japanese cars

Only the Americans, and the British, are not that way towards their automotive industry...

Maybe you need to see other places?  Germany is  a beautiful country. Europe is a must at least once in your lifetime...

THAT is what I am sayin...Mercedes ALWAYS built other things in Europe. Mercedes Benz is NOT just a luxury brand. 

They are everything in Europe. 

Cadillac is JUST a luxury brand. They dont do anything else but luxury since the 1st day they were makin' cars.  Over 100 years ago...

Cadillac is not, should not, be about volume...

 

I have been to England and Spain, but I would like to go to Paris, somewhere in the Alps where they film all those James Bond movies, and driving the Nurburgring would be cool also.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Did Mark Reuss just say that going EV is Cadillac's "LAST CHANCE"?  Wow.  What a complete jackass.  I do not care who his daddy was.

Very possible, if Cadillac cannot deliver on spacious fast luxury EVs, then you might as well close the doors as other start ups will eat them up if they do not pay attention to what is being shown as 21 century rides.

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

There are also those who look down those who buy German lux cars, believe it or not.

Local tow truck driver I know loves them. Hauling broken ones paid for his daughter's wedding.

[Cmicasa the Great]

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Maybe it is their last chance.  Buick has better volume in China and they are a lower price point but the growth is slowing there anyway.  

Who knows what GM upper management is thinking, they haven't had the best of leadership over the past 30 years.

He did not say that in the way it is being read here I don't think. Pessimism is insane these days. 

Some of U are a pessimistic bunch. Including the article writer. I read “this is pretty much it” as the EV market is the end all be all of all makers, and what else is there in terms of.. as he said and I quote ” with taking Cadillac to a really new place..” And he’s right. Outside of Cadillac starting to build houses on Mars.. where else are they or any maker going to go in terms of “new place(s)?”

But here’s an idea that could certainly fix anything with Cadillac, before ever building the first EV.. offer more choices within the current product portfolio. It bewilders me how Cadillac and GM execs believe that they are going to sell 6 vehicles (because the XT4 didn’t arrive until Dec and the XT6 just got here.. plus they discontinued the ATS Sedan) vs say Audi, which has 12, or BMW who has 16, or Benz who has 13, and Lexus with 12 and still believe, with no advertising, that they are going to pull in those brand’s numbers?  Yup.. U guessed it.. Cadillac with 6 vehicles beat Infiniti and Lincoln.. and Acura.. last year.. or damn close.. because all those makers had 6-8 vehicles too.

[balthazar]

^ Audi really only has 6 models too; the other 6 "no one buys".

[A Horse With No Name]

 

Audi builds Excitement!

[Cmicasa the Great]

6 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ Audi really only has 6 models too; the other 6 "no one buys".

Here's the thing tho.. they at least offer the choices.

I love Cadillac.. U know that.. everyone on the internet knows it.. but Cadillac needs more choices.. even if they were choices that are built off the other products they have and GM has. Hence the reason why I have no issue with the XT6 sharing bones with the Blazer/Acadia. There is no way a Cadillac Corvette should not be available. No way a CT4, CT5, and CT6 Coupe should not be avail. There is no way at least one Sedan-Coupe Convertible should not be available. Mercedes gives its customers choice.. so does Audi and BMW. Thats where the foot traffic comes in even if they leave with a E-Class or A6. They walked in to see an R8.. and left with an A6 or Q7. Audi/VW isn't mad at them either. Imagine that.. U walk into a Cadillac dealer to look at the new $150K+ C8 Cadillac XLR and leave with a fukkin  $100K CT5-V.. Is Cadillac really gonna be mad? What if its vice versa? 

Either way.. U're right. It has long been my opinion that Audi's US sales are despicable considering the multitude of vehicles they offer here. 12 or 13 models and U are selling just over 220K... Audi's equivalent sales lead over the Cadillac brand literally was the available XT4 competitor Q3, XT6 competitor, Q7, and available sub ATS, A3. What if Cadillac simply had those cars.. or something in their places? I know U hate the idea of a sub-ATS, but those numbers could be made up if Cadillac simply had of marketed the damn ATS and sold 50K of them. 

[A Horse With No Name]

4 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Here's the thing tho.. they at least offer the choices.

I love Cadillac.. U know that.. everyone on the internet knows it.. but Cadillac needs more choices.. even if they were choices that are built off the other products they have and GM has. Hence the reason why I have no issue with the XT6 sharing bones with the Blazer/Acadia. There is no way a Cadillac Corvette should not be available. No way a CT4, CT5, and CT6 Coupe should not be avail. There is no way at least one Sedan-Coupe Convertible should not be available. Mercedes gives its customers choice.. so does Audi and BMW. Thats where the foot traffic comes in even if they leave with a E-Class or A6. They walked in to see an R8.. and left with an A6 or Q7. Audi/VW isn't mad at them either. Imagine that.. U walk into a Cadillac dealer to look at the new $150K+ C8 Cadillac XLR and leave with a fukkin  $100K CT5-V.. Is Cadillac really gonna be mad? What if its vice versa? 

Either way.. U're right. It has long been my opinion that Audi's US sales are despicable considering the multitude of vehicles they offer here. 12 or 13 models and U are selling just over 220K... Audi's equivalent sales lead over the Cadillac brand literally was the available XT4 competitor Q3, XT6 competitor, Q7, and available sub ATS, A3. What if Cadillac simply had those cars.. or something in their places? I know U hate the idea of a sub-ATS, but those numbers could be made up if Cadillac simply had of marketed the damn ATS and sold 50K of them. 

They really don't need or perhaps want to be a volume player. Which is fine. I love the Audi TT even though it only sells in small numbers. I would love a Cadillac two seat sports car if it only sold in small numbers.

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by A Horse With No Name

[Drew Dowdell]

That's a beautiful shot!

[regfootball]

On 1/17/2019 at 7:33 AM, balthazar said:

^ Audi really only has 6 models too; the other 6 "no one buys".

reminded me of a funny moment last evening.  late weeknight i pulled into a total wine superstore in a well to do suburb.  there was about 10 cars in the parking lot total, and 3 of those were nearly new Audi Q(insert number here). 2 of them still were new with no plates. I think Audi has been mostly reduced to their Q's.  A6, A7, A8 are definitely rare birds in these parts anymore.  Audi Q's must be where its at.

On 1/16/2019 at 7:07 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Oh...I think Mercedes cares...

In Europe they dont. Because in Europe  Mercedes has a history of re-building European confidence and sold cars to match a re-building Europe after the war. Hence the W123...

Cadillac was never put in a position like that. Well, the idiot CEOs of the 1980s wanted a Cadillac for every American garage with the likes of the Cimarron and look what happened to that Cadillac image...

Mercedes tried that too over here...

But it did not go too well, they since changed their strategy with the CLA...but its still a cheap econobox.

Cadillac has not done that with the ATS but its Cadillac that gets shafted by the badge snobs and the shyte American automotive press...

Point being...

Luxury cars are just that...luxury cars.  Not meant for the masses...

Taxis and luxury cars are at the opposite ends of the spectrum.  Limo service is to cater to the affluent. And they need the Escalades and the S Classes. Taxis are meant for the masses.

I always sort of dug those Mercedes hatches of that vintage.

Edited January 19, 2019 by regfootball

[oldshurst442]

On 1/19/2019 at 2:32 AM, regfootball said:

 

I always sort of dug those Mercedes hatches of that vintage.

I always hated these.  That and the BMW 318ti.  I never understood the hate for the Cimarron still in the year 2000s  when both BMW and Mercedes stooped to LOWER Cimarron standards and no fallout for BMW and Mercedes yet even in 2019, Cadillac detractors still laugh at Cadillac but those 2 shyteboxes are just brushed under the rug...

I HATE that double standard! 

PS: There is nothing wrong with you liking that Benz. Its just how I feel about Eurosnobs giving Cadillac a hard time. 

PSS: Those two German cars were not even good on European roads BTW...yet Eurosnobs defended those shytboxes...

I still shake my head with disbelief on that! 

Edited January 21, 2019 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

I always hated these.  That and the BMW 318ti.  I never understood the hate for the Cimarron still in the year 2000s  when both BMW and Mercedes stooped to LOWER Cimarron standards and no fallout for BMW and Mercedes yet even in 2019, Cadillac detractors still laugh at Cadillac but those 2 shyteboxes are just brushed under the rug...

I HATE that double standard! 

PS: There is nothing wrong with you liking that Benz. Its just how I feel about Eurosnobs giving Cadillac a hard time. 

PSS: Those two German cars were not even good on European roads BTW...yet Eurosnobs defended those shytboxes...

I still shake my head with disbelief on that! 

The Cimmaron was just a rebadged Cavalier, a mediocre FWD econobox. Cadillac wasn’t even trying to build a compact luxury car, just a cheap cynical effort.  The Benz and MB hatches weren’t rebadges and were RWD, just variations of the existing 3 series and C-class. 

Moot point, though.  All ancient history.   

A modern Cimmaron equivalent would be if Cadillac had a Cruze rebadge in their line.  The ATS is not.  

Edited January 21, 2019 by Robert Hall

[Suaviloquent]

@oldshurst442 It's because millennial find driving to be a novelty, and therefore don't have standards for proper cars. Why do you think we're obsessed with vehicles that are unreliable, made by shoddy OEMs and usually are too dumb to fix our own cars. There are exceptions, but we're a but of sheeple that get cooked by all the Tim Crooks everywhere.

 

We're fascinated by all this autonomous tech that bankrupts us on our underwater cars. And when the stuff breaks half the car won't work. And student debt, no one asked you to take it on, go to insert Princeton or whatever here, drop out because of Fortnite, you could go to community college, get a diploma and get a much better P/E right out of the gate. Beeejeezus. 

[balthazar]

The MB hatches were unbelievably cheap shitboxes too- not un-akin to a Chevette (which was RWD also).

MB has a long history trying to introduce a palatable but cheap hatchback shitbox to market :

[Suaviloquent]

8 minutes ago, balthazar said:

The MB hatches were unbelievably cheap shitboxes too- not un-akin to a Chevette (which was RWD also).

MB has a long history trying to introduce a palatable but cheap hatchback shitbox to market :

I love how the owner, to maintain the pride of his or her image debadged it.

 

The truly the finest case of having a sleeper car...when no one know's its a Mercedes...

That's a Mercedes? (That's a Buick meme) OHHHHH WOWS.....take my money!

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, Suaviloquent said:

I love how the owner, to maintain the pride of his or her image debadged it.

 

The truly the finest case of having a sleeper car...when no one know's its a Mercedes...

That's a Mercedes? (That's a Buick meme) OHHHHH WOWS.....take my money!

That was a one off concept.  Not a  real car. 

[regfootball]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

The Cimmaron was just a rebadged Cavalier, a mediocre FWD econobox. Cadillac wasn’t even trying to build a compact luxury car, just a cheap cynical effort.  The Benz and MB hatches weren’t rebadges and were RWD, just variations of the existing 3 series and C-class. 

Moot point, though.  All ancient history.   

A modern Cimmaron equivalent would be if Cadillac had a Cruze rebadge in their line.  The ATS is not.  

BLS was probably the closest Cadillac has ever gotten since to attempting Cimarron 2.0.  And they left it in Europe but i can bet there was some beancounter in the US that wanted to bring it over.

I would have been fine with it if they had brought it here, though

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by regfootball

[Robert Hall]

The BLS at least had its own unique bodywork. 

[balthazar]

42 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

That was a one off concept.  Not a  real car. 

It's a production car study- it's certainly not a 'concept' by definition (IE: anything unique, special, beautiful, advanced, futuristic). Mercedes WANTED it to be a 'real car' because it brought absolutely zero else to the turntable.

Edited January 21, 2019 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

I meant to type ‘prototype’ instead of ‘concept’ but got distracted and failed to come back to edit.  

[regfootball]

41 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

The BLS at least had its own unique bodywork. 

and it could have duked it out with the ATS for who had less rear seat room.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, regfootball said:

BLS ... I would have been fine with it if they had brought it here, though.

Uh-huh; sure.

[Robert Hall]

11 hours ago, regfootball said:

and it could have duked it out with the ATS for who had less rear seat room.

Well, it was a SAAB 9-3 underneath, probably had decent rear seat room like the SAAB.  Rear leg room is usually where FWD platforms are better compared to RWD of similar size. 

Edited January 21, 2019 by Robert Hall

[frogger]

For its time I don't see how the BLS is worse than the people mover CUVs Caddy is selling now.  They could have just brought the AWD 2.0T and 2.8T versions over.

 

 

 

 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

On 1/20/2019 at 10:58 PM, regfootball said:

BLS was probably the closest Cadillac has ever gotten since to attempting Cimarron 2.0.  And they left it in Europe but i can bet there was some beancounter in the US that wanted to bring it over.

I would have been fine with it if they had brought it here, though

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Problem was that the CTS was a $29,995 base price car at the time and superior to the BLS in every way. They would have needed to price the BLS at $26k to not step on the CTS's toes.  A base 9-3 was $30k.

 

[dwightlooi]

BLS = Bullsh!t Luxury Sedan

Edited January 22, 2019 by dwightlooi

[G. David Felt]

14 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

BLS = Bullsh!t Luxury Sedan

But, But, But it was based on a SAAB? ? 

[dwightlooi]

4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

But, But, But it was based on a SAAB? ? 

Which is precisely why it is a Bullsh!t Luxury Sedan. In what way has a Saab been luxurious or perceived as such? Eccentric, quirky and not too slow, maybe... Luxurious? That is like saying a Citreon or Fiat is luxurious.

BTW, the Saab 900 of the 80s and 90s is the ache-typical Turbo car which you DON'T want. Dubious reliability, tons of turbolag, a pretty decent mid-range once it is spooled up but not much elsewhere. Pretty much like a Buick Grand National except that it is not particularly fast.

The "best" turbo four engine from that period is arguably the Mitsubishi 4G63T 2.0L which you will find in anything from the 1989 Eagle Talon Tsi /Eclispe GST/GSX to the Gallant VR4 to the various Lancer Evolutions. It'll take a lot of boost (particularly the early 7.8:1 engines) and with a stock TD05 turbo will make quite a bit (~18 psi) without needing a turbo swap and without EVER running into the knock threshold. It also has impeccable manners (for its time) with its dual balance shafts, hydraulic valve lash adjusters, sequential fuel injection and Karman Vortex MAF meter with no moving parts.

[G. David Felt]

18 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

Which is precisely why it is a Bullsh!t Luxury Sedan. In what way has a Saab been luxurious or perceived as such? Eccentric, quirky and not too slow, maybe... Luxurious? That is like saying a Citreon or Fiat is luxurious.

BTW, the Saab 900 of the 80s and 90s is the ache-typical Turbo car which you DON'T want. Dubious reliability, tons of turbolag, a pretty decent mid-range once it is spooled up but not much elsewhere. Pretty much like a Buick Grand National except that it is not particularly fast.

The "best" turbo four engine from that period is arguably the Mitsubishi 4G63T 2.0L which you will find in anything from the 1989 Eagle Talon Tsi /Eclispe GST/GSX to the Gallant VR4 to the various Lancer Evolutions. It'll take a lot of boost (particularly the early 7.8:1 engines) and with a stock TD05 turbo will make quite a bit (~18 psi) without needing a turbo swap and without EVER running into the knock threshold. It also has impeccable manners (for its time) with its dual balance shafts, hydraulic valve lash adjusters, sequential fuel injection and Karman Vortex MAF meter with no moving parts.

I would give ya the laugh emoji too for your post if I could, cause what you posted is what I was also thinking. Quirky, Eccentric and Different, but NOT Luxury.  

[riviera74]

SAAB and Luxury are mutually exclusive, then and now and forever more.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

[A Horse With No Name]

8 hours ago, dwightlooi said:

Which is precisely why it is a Bullsh!t Luxury Sedan. In what way has a Saab been luxurious or perceived as such? Eccentric, quirky and not too slow, maybe... Luxurious? That is like saying a Citreon or Fiat is luxurious.

BTW, the Saab 900 of the 80s and 90s is the ache-typical Turbo car which you DON'T want. Dubious reliability, tons of turbolag, a pretty decent mid-range once it is spooled up but not much elsewhere. Pretty much like a Buick Grand National except that it is not particularly fast.

The "best" turbo four engine from that period is arguably the Mitsubishi 4G63T 2.0L which you will find in anything from the 1989 Eagle Talon Tsi /Eclispe GST/GSX to the Gallant VR4 to the various Lancer Evolutions. It'll take a lot of boost (particularly the early 7.8:1 engines) and with a stock TD05 turbo will make quite a bit (~18 psi) without needing a turbo swap and without EVER running into the knock threshold. It also has impeccable manners (for its time) with its dual balance shafts, hydraulic valve lash adjusters, sequential fuel injection and Karman Vortex MAF meter with no moving parts.

Every mitsu power plant ever built though went into Gods own original pentalty box of a car.

Hard pass from me as an enthusiast.

I do like the previous generation evos...but not enough to want to own one.

And yes enough people disagree with me that resale vales are really high.

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

SAAB and Luxury are mutually exclusive, then and now and forever more.

As are Saab and reliability and resale. There is a reason dead brands are dead brands.

[A Horse With No Name]

11 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

 

Not terribly sure this is Cadillacs best effort. I expect more from the brand...honestly.

8 hours ago, dfelt said:

But, But, But it was based on a SAAB? ? 

GM has had no shortage of fantastic ideas...sadly they have also had a few that qualified as dumpster fires.

[Cmicasa the Great]

11 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Not terribly sure this is Cadillacs best effort. I expect more from the brand...honestly.

I don't agree. I think #1, Cadillac in terms of CUVs was in emergency mode. I think that the platform is fine for the time being and will do no harm to their credibility as far as luxury going forward. Comparing it to the Lincoln Aviator's performance is inevitable, but the engine choice changes could quell that issue immediately. Will they do it is my question. Materials? I'd have to see. It has been my experience as of late that Cadillac, and GM as a whole likes to reserve better materials for their higher trims. I maintain that the Base models should be killed and that at Caddy, that only the material quality currently present on the Premium Lux and Platinum (and V) should be available for their vehicles. The Prem. Lux and Platinum interiors, on say an XT5, are extremely nice and if they were the only choices avail during reviews, Cadillac's reputation would be solid and rightfully so. I'm not saying that they are the only luxury make that does this (look at BMW) but they are the most scrutinized of them all. That includes Jag, which I truly believe has one of the worst interiors in the luxury game

[ccap41]

I definitely do not think this is Cadillac's best effort. I don't know how anybody could think otherwise. 

[riviera74]

Base models generally are NOT a good buy to begin with. . . . . regardless of make and model.  Especially on a luxury marque.