Cadillac News: Cadillac to be Center of GM's EV Push

[Drew Dowdell]

During GM's earnings call today, GM announced that a new, highly flexible, EV architecture is on the way and that Cadillac will be at the center of the release.  The architecture, called BEV3, is said to be highly flexible, being able to be configured from small sedans to large crossover formats, and front-wheel, rear-wheel, or all-wheel drive configurations.   GM is targeting a sweet spot of 300 mile in range according to GM CEO Mary Barra.  GM is going to continue its development of autonomous technology.  It currently offers SuperCruise automated driving on the flagship CT6 sedan and plans to expand that technology across the Cadillac lineup.

Late last year, GM announced that it would be canceling two of its plug-in hybrid vehicles in a slew of cutbacks in the sedan segment. 

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[G. David Felt]

Excitement!

So cool that they have added some clarity to their EV strategy. Makes sense to start with Cadillac and push out from there.

[smk4565]

They better work fast, many luxury brands will have EV’s on sale this year.

[Drew Dowdell]

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They better work fast, many luxury brands will have EV’s on sale this year.

We should start to see the first ones this year. 

[A Horse With No Name]

18 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

We should start to see the first ones this year. 

Given how good Cadillacs look and how bad the Bolt looks, this should be good news for GM's electric program. 

[Drew Dowdell]

9 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Given how good Cadillacs look and how bad the Bolt looks, this should be good news for GM's electric program. 

I"m mostly interested in how flexible the platform is supposed to be. They didn't show any trucks, but apparently, they showed 11 different possible configurations. 

[A Horse With No Name]

41 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I"m mostly interested in how flexible the platform is supposed to be. They didn't show any trucks, but apparently, they showed 11 different possible configurations. 

It should save hugely in terms of things like emissions certification for new vehicles.  Flexibility in manufacturing now becomes easy because your power plant configuration would seem to be more standardized. 

But yes...I think this is a real turning point. 

[regfootball]

And is this platform at the expense of other Cadillac ICE vehicle platforms that people will actually buy. It should be in addition.  

[surreal1272]

Any new tech, especially EV tech, should start with Cadillac. This is a wise move by GM. I just hope they don’t neglect the ICE side of things. 

[Drew Dowdell]

2 minutes ago, regfootball said:

And is this platform at the expense of other Cadillac ICE vehicle platforms that people will actually buy. It should be in addition.  

It sounds like it is a platform for all of GM, it's just that Cadillac is getting it first.

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

We should start to see the first ones this year. 

They don’t even have a prototype yet, at least nothing that anyone has seen.  They won’t have it on sale this year.  Maybe by end of the year they have a concept car worked up.  

You wonder how scalable it will be, like could the Corvette and Silverado both be built off this platform?

[Drew Dowdell]

3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They don’t even have a prototype yet, at least nothing that anyone has seen.  They won’t have it on sale this year.  Maybe by end of the year they have a concept car worked up.  

You wonder how scalable it will be, like could the Corvette and Silverado both be built off this platform?

It's Jan 11th. They have plenty of time still. The XT6 that will be shown on Sunday will be on sale later this year. 

Definitely no on the Silverado, they showed it supporting 7-passenger SUVs but no trucks.  While I don't think it will go into Corvette, an EV sports car could be done.

[riviera74]

That new EV platform is needed on the Escalade and the XT5/XT4 as soon as it is all ready.  Then it can go everywhere else.

Q: Are they compatible with existing Tesla superchargers, or is GM going to build its own EV infrastructure?

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It's Jan 11th. They have plenty of time still. The XT6 that will be shown on Sunday will be on sale later this year. 

Definitely no on the Silverado, they showed it supporting 7-passenger SUVs but no trucks.  While I don't think it will go into Corvette, an EV sports car could be done.

They probably need another EV platform or two it sounds like then.  But obviously small to midsize crossover/sedan is where you start and 3 row crossover off that.

[G. David Felt]

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

They probably need another EV platform or two it sounds like then.  But obviously small to midsize crossover/sedan is where you start and 3 row crossover off that.

Tesla needs a compact and mid size CUV and a Mid Size Pickup. That would give them a decent portfolio. 

[smk4565]

11 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Tesla needs a compact and mid size CUV and a Mid Size Pickup. That would give them a decent portfolio. 

Agreed, it is all coming but they are too small to launch multiple vehicles at once like a Toyota or GM could.  This could hurt Tesla if everyone else gets up to speed with full EV lines.

[regfootball]

38 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

That new EV platform is needed on the Escalade and the XT5/XT4 as soon as it is all ready.  Then it can go everywhere else.

Q: Are they compatible with existing Tesla superchargers, or is GM going to build its own EV infrastructure?

or perhaps we can figure when exactly and what exactly the global charging and power supply infrastructure will be, roll it out and have it in place for that EV we are all going to buy.

Any chance we can carry a spare battery in case the one on the car dies?

 

 

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Q: Are they compatible with existing Tesla superchargers, or is GM going to build its own EV infrastructure?

Tesla Superchargers are not compatible with existing SAE charging systems that all other OEM Auto companies have agreed too.

GM has signed on along with Ford to support the SAE J1772 standard which will allow up to 800V charging which gives us our 400 mile battery pack recharge in 15 minutes once the chargers are in place. GM has announced that they will have these fast chargers installed at their dealerships for use by the dealer and customers.

As a stop gap measure till the faster chargers are installed, GM has made the following News which covers the current 31,000 charge points in the US for their customers:

https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2019/jan/0109-charging.html

I also just learned that we missed the announcement in October that GM is offering true bumper to bumper full warranty offers to go from 3/36 to 5yrs / 60K miles or 6yrs / 70k miles from their 3/36k warranty depending on brand.

https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2018/oct/1015-cca.html

[Drew Dowdell]

It doesn't get much press, but the EV charging infrastructure is expanding constantly. There is a bit of a race on among the main providers to expand and I think one or two of them may expand too fast and get into financial difficulties. 

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It doesn't get much press, but the EV charging infrastructure is expanding constantly. There is a bit of a race on among the main providers to expand and I think one or two of them may expand too fast and get into financial difficulties. 

Both of the two core subscription services have signed agreements with VW for all that VW is installing. I wonder how much the VW installation of chargers across america is also affecting the charge points as we stood at just over 17,000 at the start of January  2018 and now at the start of January 2019 we have 31,000 public charge points across america and that does not include the Tesla ones which now have an adapter to allow use of the Tesla charge points.

https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-s_x_3-sae-j1772-charging-adapter.html

So if we add the 12,011 Tesla Supercharger charge points to the list (https://www.tesla.com/supercharger ) we now have 43,011 charge points in the US alone from 17,000 in January 2018. Big change and proof that EV charging everywhere will happen as habits change on how you fuel your EV compared to an ICE auto.

[dwightlooi]

300 mile is NOT a sweet spot. 300 miles means that you are carrying more than 200 miles of battery costs and weight which 99% of commuters will NEVER use 99% of the time.

--

Now, breaking free of EV range constraints is a great idea. It is the only reason Tesla was successful whereas previous EVs -- regardless of price and performance -- weren't. But at an equivalent of $5000 for about 50 miles worth of batteries, one has to wonder whether those $20,000 can be better spent on other things. Things which can include a 30hp turbo-electric generator costing $2000 and the size of a muffler which can extend the range of the vehicle when needed and which guarantees that you will never be stranded by a depleted battery. A turbo-electric generator has no coolant circuit or radiator requirements. It'll run on gasoline, diesel, CNG, propane or whatever you throw at it. The fuel economy of this generator is largely irrelevant since you are not expected to use it 99% of the time.

Edited January 12, 2019 by dwightlooi

[Drew Dowdell]

2 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

300 mile is NOT a sweet spot. 300 miles means that you are carrying more than 200 miles of battery costs and weight which 99% of commuters will NEVER use 99% of the time.

--

Now, breaking free of EV range constraints is a great idea. It is the only reason Tesla was successful whereas previous EVs -- regardless of price and performance -- weren't. But at an equivalent of $5000 for about 50 miles worth of batteries, one has to wonder whether those $20,000 can be better spent on other things. Things which can include a 30hp turbo-electric generator costing $2000 and the size of a muffler which can extend the range of the vehicle when needed and which guarantees that you will never be stranded by a depleted battery. The fuel economy of this generator is largely irrelevant since you are not expected to use it 99% of the time.

People like to travel in luxury cars.  That means they need more than 100 miles of range

[dwightlooi]

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

People like to travel in luxury cars.  That means they need more than 100 miles of range

Yes. Hence " Things which can include a 30hp turbo-electric generator costing $2000 and the size of a muffler which can extend the range of the vehicle when needed and which guarantees that you will never be stranded by a depleted battery. A turbo-electric generator has no coolant circuit or radiator requirements. It'll run on gasoline, diesel, CNG, propane or whatever you throw at it. The fuel economy of this generator is largely irrelevant since you are not expected to use it 99% of the time. "

[Drew Dowdell]

23 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

Yes. Hence " Things which can include a 30hp turbo-electric generator costing $2000 and the size of a muffler which can extend the range of the vehicle when needed and which guarantees that you will never be stranded by a depleted battery. A turbo-electric generator has no coolant circuit or radiator requirements. It'll run on gasoline, diesel, CNG, propane or whatever you throw at it. The fuel economy of this generator is largely irrelevant since you are not expected to use it 99% of the time. "

That's basically what BMW did with the i3, at least in terms of power output, and it didn't work so well.  They made the range so small that even with the gas regenerator there is range anxiety.

[Cmicasa the Great]

I could've sworn I predicted this back in November. That perhaps the death of the CT6, or change over of the CT6 was to make way for some sort of EV replacement.. and that Cadillac was preparing for a move to take on Tesla... that another large sedan is replacing it (CT6).. a full size vehicle, that is a direct competitor, but obviously more luxurious than the Model S, which unless U spend serious coin, has a very basic interior. The plan also called for a large majority of the upcoming GM EVs to be Cadillacs. If that plan is still in play.. with the only surprise for Cadillac upon the announcements laid out was the North American death of the aforementioned CT6.. it stands to reason that it is not the Germans, nor Lincoln that Cadillac is looking to emulate.. but Tesla? Difference being.. with the full force of a profitable GM, comprised of Chevy, Buick, GMC, and a plethora of Trucks and SUVs to fund this venture.. Cadillac's "Tesla" will be actually profitable from git.

[daves87rs]

I like it...it gives Caddy purpose...and a actual direction to go into....

[regfootball]

So maybe Johann got the CT6 and hot vee blackwing motor approved and then was told they were scrapping it. Maybe he had an Escala type CT7 in play. And maybe then he got the news that the new mob at GM wanted to axe  it all. Probably said screw this and bye. Meanwhile Cadillac has to stretch an XT5 into an XT6 to hope for some sales volume. Have to sell some crossovers in order to raid the coffers to fund electrics. There are gas stations every few miles off the interstate. Would really like to see what the plan is for adding dozens of electric chargers at every Holiday and Qwik Trip before they put all these new electrics on sale. Shouldn’t the chargers be in place when they want to sell the cars ?  

[G. David Felt]

39 minutes ago, regfootball said:

So maybe Johann got the CT6 and hot vee blackwing motor approved and then was told they were scrapping it. Maybe he had an Escala type CT7 in play. And maybe then he got the news that the new mob at GM wanted to axe  it all. Probably said screw this and bye. Meanwhile Cadillac has to stretch an XT5 into an XT6 to hope for some sales volume. Have to sell some crossovers in order to raid the coffers to fund electrics. There are gas stations every few miles off the interstate. Would really like to see what the plan is for adding dozens of electric chargers at every Holiday and Qwik Trip before they put all these new electrics on sale. Shouldn’t the chargers be in place when they want to sell the cars ?  

To Quote: According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there were 114,533 gas stations in the U.S. at the end of 2012, the last year for which data is available.

Pretty much the West Coast Electric Highway has become the role model for what VW is doing in installing chargers all across America.

http://westcoastgreenhighway.com/electrichighway.htm

Then you also have the national map of charging stations and there are far more than most people think.

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=ELEC

I posted in another thread that we have over 43,000 charge points across the US.

114,533 gas stations versus 43,011 public charge points and charge points will be growing massively.

[ocnblu]

Wait did I read that right?  CHARGERS ACROSS AMERICA?

Yes of course, just as I envisioned.  One platform for every purpose.  Could it be that GM is actually studying how Power Wheels does things, and not Tesla?  A common chassis, and just drop a silhouette on top?  Wow, so much excitement, and individuality is in store./not

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Wait did I read that right?  CHARGERS ACROSS AMERICA?

Yes of course, just as I envisioned.  One platform for every purpose.  Could it be that GM is actually studying how Power Wheels does things, and not Tesla?  A common chassis, and just drop a silhouette on top?  Wow, so much excitement, and individuality is in store./not

Make mine hot with a Hemi. One can love ICE and electric both.

[regfootball]

12 hours ago, dfelt said:

To Quote: According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there were 114,533 gas stations in the U.S. at the end of 2012, the last year for which data is available.

Pretty much the West Coast Electric Highway has become the role model for what VW is doing in installing chargers all across America.

http://westcoastgreenhighway.com/electrichighway.htm

Then you also have the national map of charging stations and there are far more than most people think.

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=ELEC

I posted in another thread that we have over 43,000 charge points across the US.

114,533 gas stations versus 43,011 public charge points and charge points will be growing massively.

and each gas station has 24-32 pumps, which is 3 million pumps (probably more like 5 million pumps when all is said and done)= 1.4% the electric charge locations vs gas which may be inconvenient for lots of people (no one traveling is going to swing out of the way to go to a dealership to charge their car).  So in blunt terms, there are no chargers out there to service much more than 1% of the population, even less of a number when you add the term 'conveniently'.  I still never see anyone using the charge ports at grocery stores, etc. and even at the apartment complexes we develop in the public chargers, virtually never get used.

Pushing EV's now is a means to push vehicles that sell at out of reach prices to generate income to pay for battery development and autonomous vehicles.  Cadillac must have determined they can no longer play in the upper income bracket so they must be giving up on trying they will use the profits from their overpriced ford edges to fund the electrics cause the only who can buy them are the high end buyers. Some day the costs will come down for the everyday shopper BUT THEY WON'T BUY THEM UNTIL THERE ARE 3,000,000 charge points and can top of their battery in 5 minutes to go 300 miles.

Also not in this discussion is that people will not spend 2-3 grand to rewire their existing homes for fast car charging.  I advocate modifying building code to mandate proper electrical for fast charging a car, for newly built construction.  But since most people live in old homes and can't afford to fix little things when broken on their house, something will have to incentivize buyers to rewire their home service.  New carpet or furniture or a plug in for a car that costs 1/3-2x more?  Hmm i'll go with new furniture.  

5-15 minute charge time on demand will be what people want and require for on the go charging.  And very few will have any car charging capabilities at home for 10 years or more.

By the way I do love electrics, I wanted a volt but never got one because its too small to be practical.  

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by regfootball

[balthazar]

Interesting juxaposition : EV charge stations are at 25% of fuel stations in the U.S. by count, yet EVs are only 2% of vehicles.

[oldshurst442]

• Everyone seems to forget about the charging stations owners of EVs have at home
• Or do those 43 000 charging points INCLUDE the EV owner's garage?
• So, technically, if those 43 000 charging stations do not include home charge ports then there are more charging stations than 43 000...

And this is where it truly becomes interesting...

Because  if EV charging stations on public Streets and private businesses make up for 25% of all fueling stations of any kind for only 2% of market share, then that means that the governments and EV makers are indeed getting ready for an all EV market pretty darned soon...so we North Americans are ready to buy and use  EVs...

Also, another point of view that I thought about, is that to once and for all, eliminate this non-starter/non-issue range anxiety thing that seems to be pushed by the anti-EV movement. The more charging stations there are, the less that argument holds true. So...43 000 for only 2%. But both numbers will grow. 

Its best to be ahead of the game with charging stations than behind the 8 ball...

And...again, charging your EV at home eliminates any negative argument about charging networks...because if you charge at home before leaving your house, you start with a full charge and full driving range until you need to charge up again for another 300 or so miles...

300 miles...

Distance between Boston and Montréal equals to approx 307 miles...

Distance between NYC and Boston equals to approx 214 miles...

Distance between Tornto and Montréal  equals to approx 336  miles

Distance between San Francisco and Los Angleles equals to approx 383  miles

Distance between Los Angeles and Las Vegas equals to approx 270  miles

Distance between Dallas and Houston equals to approx 239 miles

Interesting indeed. When Ive heard all the anti-EV arguments regarding range and charging stations.

Alls I see, now that  the charging network is beefing up and all the people involved in the EV world (governments and EV makers and all that) are making all the necessary  moves to make the transition to EVs from ICE as smooth as possible, to be ready when GM, Ford, M-B, Volvo, Tesla and all others gives us an onslaught of EVs to choose from, then we will see what Joe Public really wants.

Does Joe public want EVs?

Or does he want ICE?

Because as I see it, there are no more excuses and arguments and discussions...

Everything will be in place for an EV transition. A variety of EVs will be offered. A charging network in place. Battery even at 300 miles is a non-issue and that will go up soon enough.

Fast charging times at more stations will be coming soon too...

But will the people flock to them? 

Interesting indeed!!!

Edited January 12, 2019 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

^ Many valid points.
• No doubt that 43K number does NOT include home units- I believe the idea in play here is 'fueling' while out- there is no 'anxiety' at the owner's home.
• I agree that having a surplus of charging stations out & about goes a long way to reducing range anxiety and is nicely ahead of the sales curve. However I cannot help but to wonder- what if charging stations continue to expand at their admirable rate of installation, but EVs take another 20 years to get to just 5% of the market??

[A Horse With No Name]

31 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ Many valid points.
• No doubt that 43K number does NOT include home units- I believe the idea in play here is 'fueling' while out- there is no 'anxiety' at the owner's home.
• I agree that having a surplus of charging stations out & about goes a long way to reducing range anxiety and is nicely ahead of the sales curve. However I cannot help but to wonder- what if charging stations continue to expand at their admirable rate of installation, but EVs take another 20 years to get to just 5% of the market??

Free market economics will provide balance at some point.

[ocnblu]

If I had a Bolt I could not have made it home from my 250 mile road trip today.  And... if there were a charging station between here and there, I would not be home yet.  Not anxiety, just fact.

Edited January 12, 2019 by ocnblu

[oldshurst442]

52 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

If I had a Bolt I could not have made it home from my 250 mile road trip today.  And... if there were a charging station between here and there, I would not be home yet.  Not anxiety, just fact.

True.

But, a 250 mile road trip is what...3 hour drive? 

You are speeding doing that trip in 3 hours so you will probably get stopped by the authorities. Where do you need to go and need to do to be driving that fast, bro???!!! SLOW THE ? DOWN!!!

With that being said, a 250 mile trip...

SCREW THAT!!!

Ive got a Bolt...I need to see my cousin in Boston...(for real, I actually DO have an American (Greek) cousin in Boston. He is a pure Bostonian, accent and all!!!)

It aint an emergency because Id FLY there. Take a plane...

So...an ICE car gets me to Boston in 5 hours.  Like in 5 hours flat WITHOUT speeding (well, carefully planned speeding)  If Id roll the with the speed limits it would really take me 5 hours and 35-45 minutes...) 

All the cars that I have ever owned and driven down to Boston, I had enough gas to get there but Id have to gas up soon after arriving in the city.  Like in the city...not aroung city limits, but in the city. 

When I was single, I NEVER stopped, did that drive DIRECT! Ive been to Boston with the family once and been to Toronto (same distance and time as Boston give or take) once and both times, the wife AND/OR the kids MADE ME STOP TWICE...you know, for bathroom breaks and for snacks...a loss of about 30-45 minutes...or an addition to traveling time...

So...a 250 mile trip, or a 300 mile trip...in an EV...one DOES have to make a stop for charging JUST before the destination's city's limits  to charge up for another 100% so one does not run out of battery...TRUE!!!  About 45 minute delay...

But as you can see...being married and traveling with the family...I NEVER have been able to do such a trip non-stop anyway...so...FOR ME...MOOT POINT...

I have to stop to pee and eat BBQ chips anyway...charging up aint no big deal...and since the charging network is being beefed up, using a Bolt...will not be a problem finding a charging station...

But...if Im traveling with my family...why in the hell am I traveling in such a small car?

Id take a Tesla Model 3 or Tesla Model S or better yet, the Tesla Model X over the Chevy Bolt for sure...and if that is the case...250 miles could maybe even be done REACHING the 250 mile destination without stopping...but impossible knowing my wife and kids would want to stop to pee anyway!!!

All that just to say, when traveling, especially for fun...what is the damned hurry anyway???!!!

But even traveling for business, EVs have come along way even in the short time you and I discussed this EV thing 3 years ago...NO EXCUSES NOW...

Oh...you can find weakness still, in 2019...but I doubt you will find these weaknesses in 2021...

Edited January 13, 2019 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

 what if charging stations continue to expand at their admirable rate of installation, but EVs take another 20 years to get to just 5% of the market??

 

2 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Free market economics will provide balance at some point.

 

Im one of those people that think the switch to EVs (in some parts of North America) will happen quicker than we think. (places like Alberta or Texas where they make their $$$ with oil, much much later)

With that being said, only time will tell what will happen with this EV revolution. 

There are several factors though that will push this thing through whether Lancaster Penns. natives, Albertans and Texans like it or not.

• Different countries around the world have already set a date where new ICE vehicles will no longer be able to be sold and eventually banned completely from their roads
• These countries that have done that, the major car manufacturers of the world all sell their cars there. 
• There is one country in particular that has done this, and its the biggest car market in the world forcing all car makers to abide by this ban because all major world car makers want a piece of that Chinese car selling pie
• Because all the  major world car makers wanting that piece of  Chinese car selling pie, it seems that these car makers are shoving EVs down our throats. They kind of have no choice either, because that is where the $$$ are.
• But...its not ONLY all the  major world car makers that are shoving EVs down our throats, but the countries that havent yet banned ICE vehicles yet, its only a matter of time before they also do. So, once again, all world car makers do not really have a choice in the matter...

In other words, whether Lancaster Penns. natives, Albertans and Texans want them or not, EVs are the next wave of transportation methods for the masses.

Even if it takes 20 years to make up 5% in the US, at least the infrastructure will be there. And the people that have bought EVs, well, there wont be waiting in line to charge up like how it is now because too many people need batteries charged and not enough stations to accomodate.

But...there are engineers that are trying to invent cordless charging/charging while driving..

So...maybe all those charging stations might become overkill???

Not for the 20 years to attain 5% market share angle, but because technology evolves and improves.

And what if hydrogen becomes a thing?

 

[ocnblu]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

True.

But, a 250 mile road trip is what...3 hour drive? 

You are speeding doing that trip in 3 hours so you will probably get stopped by the authorities. Where do you need to go and need to do to be driving that fast, bro???!!! SLOW THE ? DOWN!!!

With that being said, a 250 mile trip...

SCREW THAT!!!

Ive got a Bolt...I need to see my cousin in Boston...(for real, I actually DO have an American (Greek) cousin in Boston. He is a pure Bostonian, accent and all!!!)

It aint an emergency because Id FLY there. Take a plane...

So...an ICE car gets me to Boston in 5 hours.  Like in 5 hours flat WITHOUT speeding (well, carefully planned speeding)  If Id roll the with the speed limits it would really take me 5 hours and 35-45 minutes...) 

All the cars that I have ever owned and driven down to Boston, I had enough gas to get there but Id have to gas up soon after arriving in the city.  Like in the city...not aroung city limits, but in the city. 

When I was single, I NEVER stopped, did that drive DIRECT! Ive been to Boston with the family once and been to Toronto (same distance and time as Boston give or take) once and both times, the wife AND/OR the kids MADE ME STOP TWICE...you know, for bathroom breaks and for snacks...a loss of about 30-45 minutes...or an addition to traveling time...

So...a 250 mile trip, or a 300 mile trip...in an EV...one DOES have to make a stop for charging JUST before the destination's city's limits  to charge up for another 100% so one does not run out of battery...TRUE!!!  About 45 minute delay...

But as you can see...being married and traveling with the family...I NEVER have been able to do such a trip non-stop anyway...so...FOR ME...MOOT POINT...

I have to stop to pee and eat BBQ chips anyway...charging up aint no big deal...and since the charging network is being beefed up, using a Bolt...will not be a problem finding a charging station...

But...if Im traveling with my family...why in the hell am I traveling in such a small car?

Id take a Tesla Model 3 or Tesla Model S or better yet, the Tesla Model X over the Chevy Bolt for sure...and if that is the case...250 miles could maybe even be done REACHING the 250 mile destination without stopping...but impossible knowing my wife and kids would want to stop to pee anyway!!!

All that just to say, when traveling, especially for fun...what is the damned hurry anyway???!!!

But even traveling for business, EVs have come along way even in the short time you and I discussed this EV thing 3 years ago...NO EXCUSES NOW...

Oh...you can find weakness still, in 2019...but I doubt you will find these weaknesses in 2021...

What is this... Encyclopedia Britannica?  War & Peace?  Aaaand... who said it was a 3 hour trip? 

Edited January 13, 2019 by ocnblu

[balthazar]

54 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Different countries around the world have already set a date where new ICE vehicles will no longer be able to be sold and eventually banned completely from their road.

• But...its not ONLY all the  major world car makers that are shoving EVs down our throats, but the countries that havent yet banned ICE vehicles yet, its only a matter of time before they also do. So, once again, all world car makers do not really have a choice in the matter...

There's a big problem with that, and we've ALL seen Gov't projected end dates fail / get pushed back before.
Look at cigarettes- lawmakers have been turning the screws on smoking for 60 YEARS - there's zero benefit to it other than some people have a preference for the habit. Why isn't it banned yet? Very difficult to do. And while it MAY work in a couple of countries and actually stick, it's not the way here.
RE EVs- IMO the U.S. will NEVER ban IC vehicles. I actually do mean "never" on this one.

[oldshurst442]

10 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

What is this... Encyclopedia Brittanica?  War & Peace?  Aaaand... who said it was a 3 hour trip? 

Closer to a 4 hour trip...but that 3 hour statement was to make a...point....in a jokingly fashion. But there was a point being made...

Point being, when traveling, 4-5-6-7 hours by car. Its exactly THAT...4-5-6-7 hours on the road. 

If you are in a hurry. Travel by airplane.

If you dont want the hassles of stopping to pee, or charging up...travel by train...

If you take the bloody time to travel by car...4-5-6-7 hours, you invest 4-5-6--7 hours of your life on the road....45 minutes to pee and/or to charge up/fuel up is a NON-ISSUE! 

You could make up all kinds of deterrents in your head, in reality, there are none! 

THAT is the point. 

Where do you need to go and that quickly for 250 miles that a 45 minute piss stop or charge up would be an issue for you?

You are already on the road for 4-5-6-7 hours...obviously an extra 45 minutes to piss, or to charge up aint a big deal...

You could make into a big deal deterrent, I suppose.  But it really aint!

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

There's a big problem with that, and we've ALL seen Gov't projected end dates fail / get pushed back before.
Look at cigarettes- lawmakers have been turning the screws on smoking for 60 YEARS - there's zero benefit to it other than some people have a preference for the habit. Why isn't it banned yet? Very difficult to do. And while it MAY work in a couple of countries and actually stick, it's not the way here.
RE EVs- IMO the U.S. will NEVER ban IC vehicles. I actually do mean "never" on this one.

Nor should they ever ban them.

I think the ICE vehicle will stay around as a niche vehicle for a very long time....for the same reason Facebook has not replaced Cheers and Gears.

Cheers and Gears is a niche market for older guys who don't get laid enough to argue vehemently about cars they are never ever going to buy. If a free market of ideas can provide that...

A free economic market can provide ICE vehicles as niche products in a world of electrics.

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

If I had a Bolt I could not have made it home from my 250 mile road trip today.  And... if there were a charging station between here and there, I would not be home yet.  Not anxiety, just fact.

Not to mention Cold weather cuts into the range of battery electric vehicles...and the resistance of snow would not have helped matters any either...

[oldshurst442]

12 minutes ago, balthazar said:

There's a big problem with that, and we've ALL seen Gov't projected end dates fail / get pushed back before.
Look at cigarettes- lawmakers have been turning the screws on smoking for 60 YEARS - there's zero benefit to it other than some people have a preference for the habit. Why isn't it banned yet? Very difficult to do. And while it MAY work in a couple of countries and actually stick, it's not the way here.
RE EVs- IMO the U.S. will NEVER ban IC vehicles. I actually do mean "never" on this one.

I agree with you on this too.

I more on the 'lets see what the Joe Public wants' on this EV thing in North America.  But, something in the back of my mind tells me that the US will follow suit like the rest of the world sooner or later. 

Maybe not by governmental banning of ICE cars, because in America, we like our so called freedoms and we certainly do not want big government telling us what to do and meddling with our lives...but by sheer peer pressure. 

 

9 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

older guys who don't get laid enough

Truer words were never said.  ?

 

[regfootball]

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

If I had a Bolt I could not have made it home from my 250 mile road trip today.  And... if there were a charging station between here and there, I would not be home yet.  Not anxiety, just fact.

On new years eve eve i attempted to drive my mom up and back 5 hours each way and ran into terrible roads, ice and weather.  I didn't have time to charge a car, and i ultimately got stuck a couple hours from home and had to spend the night.  the storm unleashed like a winter storm does with huge cold, wind etc.  the type of stuff electrics has to demonstrate you lose no range, reliability, or ability to find fuel and refuel anywhere in all those harsh conditions.  Much of the US is a north climate state and people who live in that climate won't compromise on their vehicle's ability to perform in terrible / unsafe conditions.

face it, if they can incorporate full electrics / autonomous, they could conceivably control your car a lot easier.  i.e. take over your car and you give up your freedom on how you want to drive.  that is indeed part of the plan I bet.

35 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Closer to a 4 hour trip...but that 3 hour statement was to make a...point....in a jokingly fashion. But there was a point being made...

Point being, when traveling, 4-5-6-7 hours by car. Its exactly THAT...4-5-6-7 hours on the road. 

If you are in a hurry. Travel by airplane.

If you dont want the hassles of stopping to pee, or charging up...travel by train...

If you take the bloody time to travel by car...4-5-6-7 hours, you invest 4-5-6--7 hours of your life on the road....45 minutes to pee and/or to charge up/fuel up is a NON-ISSUE! 

You could make up all kinds of deterrents in your head, in reality, there are none! 

THAT is the point. 

Where do you need to go and that quickly for 250 miles that a 45 minute piss stop or charge up would be an issue for you?

You are already on the road for 4-5-6-7 hours...obviously an extra 45 minutes to piss, or to charge up aint a big deal...

You could make into a big deal deterrent, I suppose.  But it really aint!

 

45 minutes is unacceptable as car travel is cheaper than plane and takes less time and you don't have to get searched by dolts at the airport.  

 

[oldshurst442]

10 minutes ago, regfootball said:

 

45 minutes is unacceptable as car travel is cheaper than plane and takes less time and you don't have to get searched by dolts at the airport.  

 

You could think its unacceptable...I wont argue with you. I aint here to tell you how to think or how to live your life. You could live your life the way you want to. 

But in reality. It aint a problem...

[regfootball]

Just now, oldshurst442 said:

You could think its unacceptable...I wont argue with you. I aint here to tell you how to think or how to live your life. You could live your life the way you want to. 

But in reality. It aint a problem...

if you and your spouse worked a full day and to keep schedule, needed to haul family of four on a 4 or five hour trip up to grand dads for a family function the next morning. You would want to make as short of drive as possible.  you can go 300 miles on your gas tank and no one needs 45 minutes to pee.  the 45 minutes to plug in an electric is a major inconvenience and extends a day even longer.  if you were driving from omaha to the black hills if you add two or three charging stops to your trip you are adding 2 hours of time that no one has.

[oldshurst442]

12 minutes ago, regfootball said:

if you and your spouse worked a full day and to keep schedule, needed to haul family of four on a 4 or five hour trip up to grand dads for a family function the next morning. You would want to make as short of drive as possible.  you can go 300 miles on your gas tank and no one needs 45 minutes to pee.  the 45 minutes to plug in an electric is a major inconvenience and extends a day even longer.  if you were driving from omaha to the black hills if you add two or three charging stops to your trip you are adding 2 hours of time that no one has.

 Like I said..take a plane.

Take a train.

But now...you are just trying to FIND a kink in the EV thing.  Giving me hypothetical problems...that is why Im giving you hypothetical solutions...

And...if you and your spouse WORKED ALL DAY...

The BEST thing to do is NOT DRIVE AT ALL...

You wouldnt want to endanger the lives of your kids while traveling...battery powered or gasoline powered.  Driving while being tired AND on a stressed scheduled is just begging for disaster to strike. 

There is NEVER a good reason to put you, your loved ones and others in danger just for the sake of making "good time".

That is why a plane ride is the way to go if you feel the need to get to where you are going in a limited amount of time.

Money problems for taking a plane...

You know what? 

Take a good night sleep and leave in the morning if you really need to drive...EV or not! 

But stretching out different scenarios to prove me wrong...like I said, in reality, it aint a problem unless you want it to be... 

And that is fine. It is your opinion for 45 minutes of charge up time too long for you.  

But in reality, it aint... 

Edited January 13, 2019 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

Here's yet another to-be likely scenario. You're buzzing along on a multi-hour trip in your EV pod, chilluns in the back, vehicle is blinking 'low volts', you buzz into a charging station and all the chargers are full. Now, vs. a fuel station where you may wait 5 or even 10 mins for a pump to open up and fuel in 3, you may wait 30-45 mins for a charger then another 45 mins to charge. You just spent an hour & a half in a 'dirty, buzzing' charging station.

I'd blow my brains out if I had to sit at a fuel station that long. At the 15 min mark.

Edited January 13, 2019 by balthazar

[daves87rs]

16 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Wait did I read that right?  CHARGERS ACROSS AMERICA?

Yes of course, just as I envisioned.  One platform for every purpose.  Could it be that GM is actually studying how Power Wheels does things, and not Tesla?  A common chassis, and just drop a silhouette on top?  Wow, so much excitement, and individuality is in store./not

It may be old, but still love em’

[regfootball]

So maybe Johann got the CT6 and hot vee blackwing motor approved and then was told they were scrapping it. Maybe he had an Escala type CT7 in play. And maybe then he got the news that the new mob at GM wanted to axe  it all. Probably said screw this and bye. Meanwhile Cadillac has to stretch an XT5 into an XT6 to hope for some sales volume. Have to sell some crossovers in order to raid the coffers to fund electrics. There are gas stations every few miles off the interstate. Would really like to see what the plan is for adding dozens of electric chargers at every Holiday and Qwik Trip before they put all these new electrics on sale. Shouldn’t the chargers be in place when they want to sell the cars ?  

 

 

How is this even relevant. They just introduced the XT6. Holy crap it’s terrible. Must be why they introduced this news on EV’s. To take your attention away from how comically terrible the XT6 is.