Toyota News: 2020 Toyota Supra Finally is Revealed Sans Camo

[William Maley]

It has been a long time coming, but finally, we have gotten our first look at the upcoming 2020 Toyota Supra. The SupraMKV forums obtained a photo of the upcoming sports car in a transporter with most of the car cover removed from it.

Comparing this photo with the FT-1 concept from a few years back, Toyota's designers toned down the front end. The nose isn't as pointy and the bumper has three large intakes - not two like the concept. It also appears the bubble roof has carried over onto the production model. 

As we reported back in June, the Supra will come with two engines from BMW; the 2.0L turbo-four (265 horsepower) and 3.0L twin-turbo inline-six (335 horsepower). This will be paired with an eight-speed automatic.

Toyota will be revealing the Supra next month at the Detroit Auto Show. In the meantime, we have pictures of the FT-1 Concept, a camouflaged Supra prototype, and the production model for your perusal.

Source: SupraMKV.com
Pic Credit: SupraMKV.com

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[G. David Felt]

Concept looks much wider than production. Did a nice job keeping it close to the concept, but the concept is what I want, not the production system.

[A Horse With No Name]

This looks really good. A real part of me would choose this over a Challenger Mustang or Camaro as I really am getting into more modern automotive styling. Good job Toyota!

Edited December 12, 2018 by A Horse With No Name

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm pretty underwhelmed. 

[A Horse With No Name]

3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm pretty underwhelmed. 

You are not an Import sports car kind of guy though.

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, A Horse With No Name said:

You are not an Import sports car kind of guy though.

I dunno... I'm sure the BMW will at least whelm me. 

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

I dunno... I'm sure the BMW will at least whelm me. 

There is something about European cars.

[smk4565]

It has a bit of a Mazda RX-8 look to it.  I am not impressed by this car because I know it will be over priced.  You can get a 3-series with these engines for $40k on the 4 cylinder and $50k on the six cylinder and the 3-Series is a much more luxurious car.  They’ll probably price the Supra in the same territory when it should be priced like a Mustang.

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I am not impressed by this car because I know it will be over priced.

But you LOVE overpriced cars.

[A Horse With No Name]

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

But you LOVE overpriced cars.

If the market will bear it it isn't over priced. That two million dollar Hemi Cuda convertible at Barrett Jackson has reached the same market equilibrium pricing.

6 minutes ago, balthazar said:

But you LOVE overpriced cars.

I love pre war Bentlys and ratty RX 7s.  One is worth a Kings ransom and one is worth a Burger King meal combo. Both have merit.

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It has a bit of a Mazda RX-8 look to it.  I am not impressed by this car because I know it will be over priced.  You can get a 3-series with these engines for $40k on the 4 cylinder and $50k on the six cylinder and the 3-Series is a much more luxurious car.  They’ll probably price the Supra in the same territory when it should be priced like a Mustang.

So what...it is a cool car.

[smk4565]

42 minutes ago, balthazar said:

But you LOVE overpriced cars.

No I don't, I like good cars.  I doubt the Supra is all that fast compared to what they will charge for it.  Maybe I am wrong but I feel like they will over price it.  The Z4 has 255 hp for $50k, so that is the base Supra engine, they'll probably want $40k for that.  The I-6 makes 382 hp in the BMW Z4 for $65k, I wouldn't be surprised if that is detuned in the Supra, even if the same, they'll want $55k for that car. 

We'll see when the final car comes out and they price it, but I feel like Toyota will want Lexus money for this thing.  And those few hard core fans will buy it, and in 4 years they'll kill it due to poor sales.

46 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

 

So what...it is a cool car.

It won't be cool when a 255 hp Supra costs the same as a 420 hp V8 Mustang.  Nor will it be cool when an inline 6 Supra costs as much as a C43 AMG coupe.  

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

No I don't, I like good cars.  I doubt the Supra is all that fast compared to what they will charge for it.  Maybe I am wrong but I feel like they will over price it.  The Z4 has 255 hp for $50k, so that is the base Supra engine, they'll probably want $40k for that.  The I-6 makes 382 hp in the BMW Z4 for $65k, I wouldn't be surprised if that is detuned in the Supra, even if the same, they'll want $55k for that car. 

We'll see when the final car comes out and they price it, but I feel like Toyota will want Lexus money for this thing.  And those few hard core fans will buy it, and in 4 years they'll kill it due to poor sales.

Nothing saying that Toyota does not have a superior Tuned performance motor that gives more than what BMW is offering due to the nature of this performance car.

It could be a $65K sports car with 450 or 500 HP in that I6. Remember very easy to take the base motor and change out the Turbo's as you know.

[regfootball]

looks like some pulse still over at toyota......

[smk4565]

Just now, dfelt said:

Nothing saying that Toyota does not have a superior Tuned performance motor that gives more than what BMW is offering due to the nature of this performance car.

It could be a $65K sports car with 450 or 500 HP in that I6. Remember very easy to take the base motor and change out the Turbo's as you know.

No way will BMW let them offer more horsepower than they do.  That engine will most likely be a direct rip from the M340i and Z4 40i.  The 0-60 estimate for the Supra is 4.5 seconds with the 6 cylinder.

And it won't have 400 or 500 hp because Toyota/Lexus don't do horsepower and torque.  Their most powerful sports car the LC500 has 471 hp and 398 lb-ft of torque. These guys are not capable of doing a performance car, that is why BMW made it for them, and BMW is going to give them exactly what is under the Z4's sheetmetal with a cheaper interior.  And BMW can't beat Porsche or AMG at anything, so how will this Supra beat a Corvette, because it going to cost base Corvette or Camaro ZL1 money.  

[smk4565]

☝️ This SUV gets round the Nurburgring faster than this ?:

And that is the M2 Competition which is sooped up above what the Z4/Supra have.  If the Supra loses to an SUV on the Nurburgring, I have a hard time getting excited about it as an awesome sports car.

[balthazar]

"Supra loses on Nurburgring" = car not worth building. ?

[daves87rs]

Kinda plain....but I dig the clean lines....

Need some rear shots.....

 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

No way will BMW let them offer more horsepower than they do.  That engine will most likely be a direct rip from the M340i and Z4 40i.  The 0-60 estimate for the Supra is 4.5 seconds with the 6 cylinder.

And it won't have 400 or 500 hp because Toyota/Lexus don't do horsepower and torque.  Their most powerful sports car the LC500 has 471 hp and 398 lb-ft of torque. These guys are not capable of doing a performance car, that is why BMW made it for them, and BMW is going to give them exactly what is under the Z4's sheetmetal with a cheaper interior.  And BMW can't beat Porsche or AMG at anything, so how will this Supra beat a Corvette, because it going to cost base Corvette or Camaro ZL1 money.  

Yet Toyota has come out saying they need to take more risk and get more aggresive as we have seen in their newer body style's and offering TRD on car lines they never did before. So who says that after making an agreement with BMW for the bones to build the Super that they cannot go with bigger turbo's, etc. to dial it in. 

Ya never know, till they release detailed info, it is all speculation. 

There is always a bigger bat, bigger man, etc. that does knock the king of his thrown. Ya just never know when it will show up.

[A Horse With No Name]

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

"Supra loses on Nurburgring" = car not worth building. ?

Wonder how a stock B59 would do on the ring?

But yes....for the Supra to do seven minutes dead flat on the ring they would be charging a million bucks a copy.

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Wonder how a stock B59 would do on the ring?

Horrible, of course. Built to float.

Watching the 'NASCAR car on Nurburgring' linked elsewhere and it's interesting- my B-59 (decidedly not stock) shares similar specs, it'll be heavier by a lot/will have more HP/TRQ, but the ladder bars/Panhard bar, posi, adjustable coil overs and 315/60-15 drag radials should keep it planted pretty well. Has lowered HD coils up front (don't have the front shocks yet), quicker steering, plus the body shell was reinforced. It would be interesting to take it on a track, I'd do that.

Edited December 13, 2018 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

15 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Horrible, of course. Built to float.

Cornering at 25 mph?  Passengers would be screaming in terror sliding across the bench seats...I would guess the one you are building will corner much better..

 

Back on topic---

The nose of the new Supra seems inspired by F1 car nose cones and air dams from a few years ago, seems dated now considering Toyota is no longer in F1.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Robert Hall

[A Horse With No Name]

22 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Horrible, of course. Built to float.

Watching the 'NASCAR car on Nurburgring' linked elsewhere and it's interesting- my B-59 (decidedly not stock) shares similar specs, it'll be heavier by a lot/will have more HP/TRQ, but the ladder bars/Panhard bar, posi, adjustable coil overs and 315/60-15 drag radials should keep it planted pretty well. Has lowered HD coils up front (don't have the front shocks yet), quicker steering, plus the body shell was reinforced. It would be interesting to take it on a track, I'd do that.

I would hate to see you stuff it into a wall on track, bad things happen to race cars on track.

One of the most painful moments from my days as a flagger at Mid Ohio, which I discussed here several years ago...was watching a vintage Shelby Mustang and one of the Monte Carlo SS's that Dale Earnhardt drove to his championship come together hard and go into a retaining wall.  Both cars were rebuilt....but that was painful to watch.

Not that you lack chops as a driver per se.

On the other hand, tired of performance cars that only get driven to car shows.

11 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Cornering at 25 mph?  Passengers would be screaming in terror sliding across the bench seats...I would guess the one you are building will corner much better..

 

Back on topic---

The nose of the new Supra seems inspired by F1 car nose cones and air dams from a few years ago, seems dated now considering Toyota is no longer in F1.

It still looks better than most (if not all) modern cars though.

Back to the Supra, I like it. Maybe not absolute love or lust, but like.

Giving myself the freedom to like what I like is making me feel better as an enthusiast.  I am a small sporty car kind of a guy, even though I like vintage and vintage Muscle. Civic Si/R/GTI/WRX/BRZ/Cooper S/ST/RS kind of a guy when it comes to new cars.

Cars like the 370Z and the Supra have enough of that DNA to make me happy.

 

Edited to add...both Civic Type R and Golf R under the R label, please.

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

☝️ This SUV gets round the Nurburgring faster than this ?:

And that is the M2 Competition which is sooped up above what the Z4/Supra have.  If the Supra loses to an SUV on the Nurburgring, I have a hard time getting excited about it as an awesome sports car.

See...for me here the real win is styling. And I actually find myself liking the Benz more than the BMW. Plus I trust Benz engineering more than I do BMW.  So I would upvote the Benz of the two, but not strictly on performance.

Edited December 13, 2018 by A Horse With No Name

[balthazar]

If the red car pictured above is the Supra, I kinda like it. If it's the grey job; meh.

[A Horse With No Name]

11 minutes ago, balthazar said:

If the red car pictured above is the Supra, I kinda like it. If it's the grey job; meh.

Red car is concept, grey is actual production. And yes, my oldest son, who is a huge Toyota fan, would agree with you.

[smk4565]

33 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Back on topic---

The nose of the new Supra seems inspired by F1 car nose cones and air dams from a few years ago, seems dated now considering Toyota is no longer in F1.

I wish Toyota was in Formula 1 so Mercedes could beat them.  ?  And it would be nice to have another team with big money funding in there.

[smk4565]

8 hours ago, dfelt said:

Yet Toyota has come out saying they need to take more risk and get more aggresive as we have seen in their newer body style's and offering TRD on car lines they never did before. So who says that after making an agreement with BMW for the bones to build the Super that they cannot go with bigger turbo's, etc. to dial it in. 

Ya never know, till they release detailed info, it is all speculation. 

There is always a bigger bat, bigger man, etc. that does knock the king of his thrown. Ya just never know when it will show up.

But the TRD cars have no power upgrade, and BMW is not going to let Toyota modify their engine.  Toyota would have to use their own engine, and the LS500's turbo V6 is the only thing they could use and who knows if it even fits.  Plus that would add even more manufacturing cost, because I'd assume those Lexus engines are made in Japan, and it would have to be shipped to Germany or wherever the Supra and Z4 are built.

I agree that it is all speculation.  But my prediction is a 382 hp car for $65,000.  Which is Corvette, Camaro ZL1 or Shelby GT350 type money.  And will the Supra be better than those cars?   Or better than a BMW 4-series or C43 AMG coupe?

[Robert Hall]

23 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I wish Toyota was in Formula 1 so Mercedes could beat them.  ?  And it would be nice to have another team with big money funding in there.

Well, their Formula 1 effort ended with little to no success a few years ago.   They persevered in endurance racing though. 

[smk4565]

7 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Well, their Formula 1 effort ended with little to no success a few years ago.   They persevered in endurance racing though. 

Toyota can join Formula E since they seem to be all about electric and sustainability, or at least claim to be.  Audi, BMW, Nissan, and Jaguar are already there and Mercedes and Porsche are joining next year.

[Robert Hall]

11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Toyota can join Formula E since they seem to be all about electric and sustainability, or at least claim to be.  Audi, BMW, Nissan, and Jaguar are already there and Mercedes and Porsche are joining next year.

That would make more sense..though Toyota at this point is pretty much a non-entity with production EVs, having focused on hybrids and hydrogen so far.   

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

That would make more sense..though Toyota at this point is pretty much a non-entity with production EVs, having focused on hybrids and hydrogen so far.   

But they have one heck of a grasp on Hybrids.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

But the TRD cars have no power upgrade, and BMW is not going to let Toyota modify their engine.  Toyota would have to use their own engine, and the LS500's turbo V6 is the only thing they could use and who knows if it even fits.  Plus that would add even more manufacturing cost, because I'd assume those Lexus engines are made in Japan, and it would have to be shipped to Germany or wherever the Supra and Z4 are built.

I agree that it is all speculation.  But my prediction is a 382 hp car for $65,000.  Which is Corvette, Camaro ZL1 or Shelby GT350 type money.  And will the Supra be better than those cars?   Or better than a BMW 4-series or C43 AMG coupe?

It will have a place at the table in a niche market. just like the Miata....Miata has a cult following...