Computer and hardware purchase question - help

[trinacriabob]

I'm about to buy a new desktop and a new printer.  I've had both for about 9 years.  They are HP.  The desktop lives on (crossing my fingers) but the printer recently gave up the ghost, after so many years of service.  Two questions:

1.  I am looking at the lower priced HP Pavilions with 12 GB of RAM.  They can come with an Intel CPU (a little more money) or an AMD CPU (a little less money).  Instinctively, I've gone for Intel in the past.  My desktop computer tower use is for easy stuff.  I read a few over my head articles that AMD's Ryzen 5 series CPU is now commendable and has edged up on Intel in the CPU department.  I just went into a big box place and one of the guys told me that the AMD runs a lot hotter and uses more wattage than the Intel, so it won't last as long as the Intel version in similar newer HP Pavilions.  Any thoughts on this?

2.  I am looking at a printer with wide format capability, meaning 11x17 copying and printing.  They have some home use HP and Epson models.  The interface on HP is sadly like that of a cell phone.  It's small.  Epson's is more traditional.  The same guy told me that when the Epson needs to clean itself (that sounds dirty, I know) it kicks out a mechanical lock and you need to pay for a $75 piece each time this occurs.  This sounds ridiculous.  Do you agree?  On my very reliable HP OfficeJet, all I ever did is buy ink cartridges over the years. I've never heard of a lock of sorts on a home printer during its service life.

This big box chain store prices their service plans higher than many other stores.  I've rarely bought stuff there over the years.  I'm betting that a sales push for these service plans would have come on the heels, had I been buying, but I was just looking.

Help and input are greatly appreciated.

[Drew Dowdell]

The guy in #1 is full of crap. Unless you're running it at full capacity all the time, the heat will never be an issue. Today's chips run amazingly cool for the power they have.

That said. I've been happy with my HPs... But not so happy with Win10. I'll probably go Mac next time around.

[trinacriabob]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The guy in #1 is full of crap. Unless you're running it at full capacity all the time, the heat will never be an issue. Today's chips run amazingly cool for the power they have.

That said. I've been happy with my HPs... But not so happy with Win10. I'll probably go Mac next time around.

Yes, I thought he was a goofball of sorts, probably looking to sell a tech support package.  It would be my first experience with AMD over Intel if I went that route.  They say AMD has a strong processor in the Ryzen 5.  (Incidentally, reisen means travel in German.)

The next one to unsnarl is the printer.  I have enjoyed my HP Office Jets.  Both have had kinks that you learn to navigate around by the lasted many years.  I'll have to research this Epson locking up mechanically and requiring a piece to free it.  That sounds kooky, too.

I'm getting there.

[G. David Felt]

@trinacriabob First off I have to place this disclaimer. I work for Dell Technology. I hope this info helps. Ask me any questions you have.

The guy you talked to I have to agree with @Drew Dowdell is full of crap.

With that said, the Epyc chip is AMDs commercial grade CPU and the Ryzen is the consumer for desktop and laptop applications, same 32 core cpu but with less memory and PCIe channels. Both chips kick Intel's Ass in performance for both their i9 commercial cpu and i7 consumer and this includes their over clocked gamer cpu.

Intel just showed off a 10Nm 28 core CPU at Computex and they did not bother till after the show a day or two later that it was over clocked at 5GHz and had a mini refrig water chiller. Intel is struggling as AMD has vastly surpassed them.

AMD both consumer and commercial chips handles up to 2TB of ram per CPU with 32 cores in comparison to Intel CPUs that max out at 96GB of ram. Right now Intel will not be able to get anything up and running till December when they start shipping their 10 nanometer (Nm) CPUs that will get close to AMD. Yet AMD also at Computex showed off their next Gen Epyc / Ryzen CPU on a 7 Nm design that will again drop power needs, heat etc.

Right now AMD is actually winning even in their Gen 1 Ryzen chip that is in most system shipping in minimizing power consumption and heat generation.

I will say that if you can afford to put in a little more money, picking up a next Gen Ryzen would give you a long lasting computer.

Good Review on the new AMD Ryzen Gen 2 that will be out in September systems.

https://hothardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2950x-and-2990wx-review

Good info for Gen 1 Ryzen out now and should find good deals on it if you are happy with the performance.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-2700x-review,5571.html

Here is an excellent review of AMD versus Intel Cpu's.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2-vs-intel-skylake-x,5727.html

I will say if you have access to Costco, they have some very sweet Dell XPS desktops that are better priced than even my employee pricing for the configurations they sell.

Here is the current info on Costco for Desktop system only:

Here is for all in one systems:

Here is their current Printers. After being a long life HP user, their costs for consumables is just stupid crazy compared to printers and quality seems to be terrible right now. I tried Epson but they also seem to be following the HP model. I ended up getting 3yrs ago a Brother MFC system and they rock. Solid and just plain awesome.

Last option is to consider REFURBISHED. Comes with full warrenty and a great way to either save money or get more system for less money than usual.

http://www.dell.com/us/dfh/p/?cid=287779&st=dell+refurbished&VEN1=1PQIzE1f%2C74010960201652%2C901kuu23312%2Cc%2C&VEN2=be%2Cdell+refurbished&lid=5512803&dgc=st&dgseg=arb&acd=1230921317820600&VEN3=153604497227599147

This second link looks like dell but I am not sure, first time seeing it. Might be a certified resellar.

https://www.dellrefurbished.com/

[Drew Dowdell]

I have to add a second vote to Brother printers.  I've had a brother inkjet for years.  The ink can be purchased cheap on amazon so you're not paying HP ... or even Brother prices.  The ink on my model can sometimes be a little messy when loading it if you're not careful however. 

[ykX]

5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I have to add a second vote to Brother printers.  I've had a brother inkjet for years.  The ink can be purchased cheap on amazon so you're not paying HP ... or even Brother prices.  The ink on my model can sometimes be a little messy when loading it if you're not careful however. 

I agree about Brother printer but would go with laser.  I have a Brother color laser printer for about 5 years now and it has been great.

[Drew Dowdell]

4 minutes ago, ykX said:

I agree about Brother printer but would go with laser.  I have a Brother color laser printer for about 5 years now and it has been great.

A laser wide-format..... getting spendy! ?????

Also, I just re-read what the guy was telling you about the Epson.... all ink-jet printers have a self cleaning mechanism, not just Epson.  I've never had one break on me like he described. 

[Robert Hall]

I've had bad results w/ Epson printers, but those have been cheap ones.   My most recent one wouldn't recognize it had paper in it after replacing the ink cartridges the first time.    I rarely ever print anything, but have a 10 yr old Lexmark 3n1 that still works great.  Heavy, a bit slow, it still keeps going.   

[G. David Felt]

Gotta love Toms Hardware reviews. Great review of the bleeding edge new CPUs from Intel and AMD.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2-vs-intel-skylake-x,5727.html?utm_source=th-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20180815-th 

[G. David Felt]

OK, for those that do not want to read the long heavy testing to see who wins what, here is a recap:

1. Features (Cores & PCIe Lanes) Winner AMD
2. Overclocking Winner Tie
3. Coolers (heating/power consumption) Winner AMD
4. Motherboards Winner Intel
5. Gaming Performance Winner Intel
6. Productivity Performance Winner Tie
7. Value Winner AMD
8. Bottom Line Winner AMD

[trinacriabob]

On 8/15/2018 at 7:58 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

I have to add a second vote to Brother printers.  I've had a brother inkjet for years.  The ink can be purchased cheap on amazon so you're not paying HP ... or even Brother prices.  The ink on my model can sometimes be a little messy when loading it if you're not careful however. 

I just looked into those on line.  They are a little more than either HP or Epson.  They also get the better reviews.  Since it will be wide format, it will be an inkjet printer.  It's funny because you don't see them advertised all that much.

On 8/16/2018 at 10:04 AM, dfelt said:

OK, for those that do not want to read the long heavy testing to see who wins what, here is a recap:

1. Features (Cores & PCIe Lanes) Winner AMD
2. Overclocking Winner Tie
3. Coolers (heating/power consumption) Winner AMD
4. Motherboards Winner Intel
5. Gaming Performance Winner Intel
6. Productivity Performance Winner Tie
7. Value Winner AMD
8. Bottom Line Winner AMD

Thank you.  Not interested in gaming.  At all.  LOL.  Spreadsheets, documents, some household name graphics packages, photo storage and editing, YouTube, and general surfing ... that's it!  I'm guessing the above would sort of cover the AMD Ryzen 5.

[trinacriabob]

Also, by the way, I was talking to this Indian girl who sold tech stuff at one of the office supply chain stores and she said the thing about the periodic maintenance block on the printer requiring a $ 75 piece to unblock it sounded pretty nutty to her.  It sounded nutty to me.  I wonder what that was all about.  That dude should have been reported to management.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, trinacriabob said:

Also, by the way, I was talking to this Indian girl who sold tech stuff at one of the office supply chain stores and she said the thing about the periodic maintenance block on the printer requiring a $ 75 piece to unblock it sounded pretty nutty to her.  It sounded nutty to me.  I wonder what that was all about.  That dude should have been reported to management.

From time to time, various manufactures will give SPIFFs on selling their hardware. I know I have seen retail folks use crazy lies to get you to buy a product they get a $25 spiff on. Yet a quick sale can come back to haunt a person if they are not careful.

[trinacriabob]

20 hours ago, dfelt said:

From time to time, various manufactures will give SPIFFs on selling their hardware. I know I have seen retail folks use crazy lies to get you to buy a product they get a $25 spiff on. Yet a quick sale can come back to haunt a person if they are not careful.

Thank you.  What a jerk that guy was.  If I've owned 2 HP 4 in 1s for home use for at least 6 years each and they never required anything but ink, then I knew something was off.  I also avoid that chain since they don't have the best prices to begin with.

[trinacriabob]

Hi folks:

Step 1 - I did buy the printer.  As I had mentioned, I needed 11x17 capability and I didn't want to spend a lot.  I purchased the Epson WF 7720.  I got it for $ 199.99 less $ 50 (a special) for turning in my old printer, an HP Office Jet that lasted a long time.  Total:  $ 149.99.  Let's see how it goes. My demands on a printer are very low.  Reviews on Amazon and big box sites - most love it, some hate it.  I'm finding that's true with struts, which I'm looking at and need, and luck may be involved.  Let's see how this printer goes.

Step 2 - help

a.  Within the last two weeks, my mouse keeps freezing and locking up my old HP Pavilion tower computer.  It's intermittent but becoming more frequent.  Any quick solutions?  Any quick fixes to tide me over for a week or two?

b.  Browsers also keep updating.  Lo and behold, with the latest update, I get a message "The bookmarks and history system will not be functional."  Others have also gotten this message and discuss it on forums.  Some of the fixes aren't working.  Are my bookmarks residing somewhere in my computer nonetheless?  I have quite a few of them and they are in folders.  I've done a back up onto a 1 TB portable within the last 2 months.  Would this have transported the bookmarks to it?  Very frustrating.

Thanks.

[G. David Felt]

52 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

Hi folks:

Step 1 - I did buy the printer.  As I had mentioned, I needed 11x17 capability and I didn't want to spend a lot.  I purchased the Epson WF 7720.  I got it for $ 199.99 less $ 50 (a special) for turning in my old printer, an HP Office Jet that lasted a long time.  Total:  $ 149.99.  Let's see how it goes. My demands on a printer are very low.  Reviews on Amazon and big box sites - most love it, some hate it.  I'm finding that's true with struts, which I'm looking at and need, and luck may be involved.  Let's see how this printer goes.

Step 2 - help

a.  Within the last two weeks, my mouse keeps freezing and locking up my old HP Pavilion tower computer.  It's intermittent but becoming more frequent.  Any quick solutions?  Any quick fixes to tide me over for a week or two?

b.  Browsers also keep updating.  Lo and behold, with the latest update, I get a message "The bookmarks and history system will not be functional."  Others have also gotten this message and discuss it on forums.  Some of the fixes aren't working.  Are my bookmarks residing somewhere in my computer nonetheless?  I have quite a few of them and they are in folders.  I've done a back up onto a 1 TB portable within the last 2 months.  Would this have transported the bookmarks to it?  Very frustrating.

Thanks.

Hey congrats on the new printer, wishing you all the best for it's use.

MOUSE - Is this a traditional mouse with a ball? If so, the rollers get dirty and cause the system to skip or not move the mouse so it seems to freeze. You can twist off the circle cover, remove the mouse and then clean the dirt off the rollers.

If it is a optical mouse, you will have to get a new mouse as once the optics start failing they are not user fixable that I am aware of.

BROWSERS - Which one are you using? Chrome, Firefox, Edge, IE, HP's own proprietary browser?

There are various instructions on the web for this, but it amounts to exporting your bookmarks as an HTML file. Once you have done this, you could then do the following:

1. Download the latest version of your browser choice.
2. Uninstall the old browser, updates, etc. for said browser.
3. Clean install of latest browser.
4. Import the HTML file of all your bookmarks.
5. Enjoy using the new browser with all your bookmarks.

Hope this helps you out.

[trinacriabob]

10 hours ago, dfelt said:

Hey congrats on the new printer, wishing you all the best for it's use.

MOUSE - Is this a traditional mouse with a ball? If so, the rollers get dirty and cause the system to skip or not move the mouse so it seems to freeze. You can twist off the circle cover, remove the mouse and then clean the dirt off the rollers.

If it is a optical mouse, you will have to get a new mouse as once the optics start failing they are not user fixable that I am aware of.

BROWSERS - Which one are you using? Chrome, Firefox, Edge, IE, HP's own proprietary browser?

There are various instructions on the web for this, but it amounts to exporting your bookmarks as an HTML file. Once you have done this, you could then do the following:

1. Download the latest version of your browser choice.
2. Uninstall the old browser, updates, etc. for said browser.
3. Clean install of latest browser.
4. Import the HTML file of all your bookmarks.
5. Enjoy using the new browser with all your bookmarks.

Hope this helps you out.

Thank you ... in a big way.  Yes, I remember those types of mouses where the ball was so loose that it lent itself to cleaning, and even falling out!  This one is optical.  With a new tower, I will get a new keyboard and mouse.  Nine plus years has been a long run!

It's Firefox.  I will look at the 5 step solution and try to navigate through that.  If I was looking at a directory without opening up the browser, from which I get this unpleasant message about the bookmarks (that others also have gotten, per searches), then I'd be interested in knowing if they might be in a directory somewhere that would allow me to transfer them onto another medium or two.

I will say that I've been impressed with the longevity of my HP bundle over these years.  My use of it has not been particularly taxing.  I'm sure that has helped.

Thanks!

[trinacriabob]

Thanks for the help, folks.

My old HP desktop Pavilion and HP monitor have been unplugged.  After many years, my HP Office Jet printer gave up the ghost a few months ago.

In their place is a new HP desktop Pavilion (12 GB RAM and Intel processor) and a bigger HP monitor.  So far, they have been great.  I also was able to buy them at a very good price.  The price of the desktop computer went up quite a bit ... supply and demand.  So, they sat there for a couple of months before I hooked them up, but it was smart to make the move and buy them a couple of months ago.

This time, the printer is an Epson.  I'm learning how to operate it, meaning the range of its capabilities.  This one also has the 11x17 paper feature, which I wanted for this machine.

[G. David Felt]

Why only 6 to 12 months then, might as well go to Dell Outlet and get a refurb with their normal same as new warranty but at reduced price.

Dell Outlet

Edited April 22, 2019 by Drew Dowdell
Don't quote the spammer

[trinacriabob]

Thanks for the suggestions on laptops.  A laptop may come later.  At this point, I go between the desktop (recently purchased HP 590) and a phone (which needs to be replaced SOON because it has been irritating me for a while).

AT&T either has cheap phones that don't get good reviews or good phones that get good reviews and cost a lot.  They also have the "bring your own phone" program, where you buy an unlocked and compatible with your carrier's network and your bill is a tad lower because you are not paying on a phone through them.  I've seen some models that AT&T doesn't carry and which I like on-line.  With some models, few are new but MANY are refurbished.  Would you even consider buying a refurbished phone?  And, of the ones claiming to be new but sold by a small indie cell phone mail order store, how do you know they're really new, even if being sold through eBay or Amazon?  Any thoughts?

[Drew Dowdell]

12 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

Thanks for the suggestions on laptops.  A laptop may come later.  At this point, I go between the desktop (recently purchased HP 590) and a phone (which needs to be replaced SOON because it has been irritating me for a while).

AT&T either has cheap phones that don't get good reviews or good phones that get good reviews and cost a lot.  They also have the "bring your own phone" program, where you buy an unlocked and compatible with your carrier's network and your bill is a tad lower because you are not paying on a phone through them.  I've seen some models that AT&T doesn't carry and which I like on-line.  With some models, few are new but MANY are refurbished.  Would you even consider buying a refurbished phone?  And, of the ones claiming to be new but sold by a small indie cell phone mail order store, how do you know they're really new, even if being sold through eBay or Amazon?  Any thoughts?

My phone is a refurb that was sent to me as a warranty replacement.  It's been fine. 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, trinacriabob said:

Thanks for the suggestions on laptops.  A laptop may come later.  At this point, I go between the desktop (recently purchased HP 590) and a phone (which needs to be replaced SOON because it has been irritating me for a while).

AT&T either has cheap phones that don't get good reviews or good phones that get good reviews and cost a lot.  They also have the "bring your own phone" program, where you buy an unlocked and compatible with your carrier's network and your bill is a tad lower because you are not paying on a phone through them.  I've seen some models that AT&T doesn't carry and which I like on-line.  With some models, few are new but MANY are refurbished.  Would you even consider buying a refurbished phone?  And, of the ones claiming to be new but sold by a small indie cell phone mail order store, how do you know they're really new, even if being sold through eBay or Amazon?  Any thoughts?

I honestly have had a hit or miss with refurbished phones. I think one truly needs to do research as it is buyer beware on the phones. I tend to change phones every 4 years so I buy top of the line, in this case been staying with the Samsung Note, went with Note 3 and then Note 8. So yes, $1K is allot of money but when figured over 4 years or so it ends up being cheap for a reliable long term phone.

[trinacriabob]

I'm intensely researching phones during the next week or so.

If going Android, many are still based on Android 7.  An update to Android 8 is supposedly feasible.  On the other hand, Android 9 (pie) has already been rolled out.

I'm guessing Android 7 and 8 ought to be glitch free.  I'm not sure about Android 9.  Besides googling, I wouldn't even know where to look.

I know there is one excellent website for compare/contrast for cell phones, along with their pros and cons, not to mention their features listed in tabular form for compare/contrast.

[Drew Dowdell]

3 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

I'm intensely researching phones during the next week or so.

If going Android, many are still based on Android 7.  An update to Android 8 is supposedly feasible.  On the other hand, Android 9 (pie) has already been rolled out.

I'm guessing Android 7 and 8 ought to be glitch free.  I'm not sure about Android 9.  Besides googling, I wouldn't even know where to look.

I know there is one excellent website for compare/contrast for cell phones, along with their pros and cons, not to mention their features listed in tabular form for compare/contrast.

Get yourself a used Pixel. Then you can be on Android Pie. 

[G. David Felt]

25 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

I'm intensely researching phones during the next week or so.

If going Android, many are still based on Android 7.  An update to Android 8 is supposedly feasible.  On the other hand, Android 9 (pie) has already been rolled out.

I'm guessing Android 7 and 8 ought to be glitch free.  I'm not sure about Android 9.  Besides googling, I wouldn't even know where to look.

I know there is one excellent website for compare/contrast for cell phones, along with their pros and cons, not to mention their features listed in tabular form for compare/contrast.

Samsung has moved to Pie but then you are looking at the Galaxy 10 line. They have pushed Pie over the last month out to all phones capable of handling Pie.

If you do not want the delay, then you can go with the Pixel as @Drew Dowdell points out, but I have not been impressed with the camera on the pixel.

[Drew Dowdell]

2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Samsung has moved to Pie but then you are looking at the Galaxy 10 line. They have pushed Pie over the last month out to all phones capable of handling Pie.

If you do not want the delay, then you can go with the Pixel as @Drew Dowdell points out, but I have not been impressed with the camera on the pixel.

Really? I think its quite good.

[frogger]

Pixel phones definitely have top rated cameras for image quality.  They are not cheap though, unless subsidized or you find an older model (not the 3/3XL).

 

 

[G. David Felt]

@Drew Dowdell Thank you for posting those. They are nice. The last time I looked at the pixel almost 2yrs ago, it was not as good as the samsung then to my eyes, so I went with the samsung. Will have to take another look when I get ready to upgrade phones again.

[ykX]

21 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Really? I think its quite good.

Just recently took these with my Pixel 3XL.  Pixel consistently beat everyone else camera until recently.  The main reason i got it in the first place.

 

[Drew Dowdell]

@ykX those look great! Mine is just the original Pixel. 

[ykX]

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

@ykX those look great! Mine is just the original Pixel. 

Yes, as I said before I got mine few months ago and I love it so far.   Low light pictures and action photos of my kids come out great as well.

[Drew Dowdell]

Since we're on a Paris kick...

[G. David Felt]

Very cool guys, thank you now I want to check out the latest one. Those pic's are awesome!

[trinacriabob]

I'm a little hesitant about spending big bucks on a phone.  I've trembled *almost* when standing on the edge of a vaporetto in Venice and taking one photo after the next, wondering if the damn thing will fall into the Grand Canal.  This railing of a ship, ferry, or water taxi scenario always goes through my head.  Therefore, I'd like to stay at a mid-range price point.

In general, how long are apps supported on an Android platform? 

Which is the last Android platform to be supported today by most major apps, or what's the cutoff?   Any rules of thumb?

Planned obsolescence .... cars, phones, you name it.

On 4/23/2019 at 2:11 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Since we're on a Paris kick...

1889 vintage ... and to think they had plans to dismantle it.

[ykX]

8 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

Therefore, I'd like to stay at a mid-range price point.

In general, how long are apps supported on an Android platform? 

Which is the last Android platform to be supported today by most major apps, or what's the cutoff?   Any rules of thumb?

I think if you go with previous generation of Pixel or Samsung, it will be cost effective and still you will get a very good phone.  Also, I had previously Moto X4 which is inexpensive, it was a good phone, just the camera was not what I wanted.

I think apps support depends on the developer, not really on Android or Google, so it depends.  The apps I am using were working fine on both previous generation of Android and on the latest as well.

[Drew Dowdell]

44 minutes ago, ykX said:

I think if you go with previous generation of Pixel or Samsung, it will be cost effective and still you will get a very good phone.  

This.

[trinacriabob]

3 hours ago, ykX said:

I think if you go with previous generation of Pixel or Samsung, it will be cost effective and still you will get a very good phone.  Also, I had previously Moto X4 which is inexpensive, it was a good phone, just the camera was not what I wanted.

I think apps support depends on the developer, not really on Android or Google, so it depends.  The apps I am using were working fine on both previous generation of Android and on the latest as well.

Right, the developer (for a particular client or business) decides with that business where they'll draw the line.  As Android platforms have advanced, I've found that some apps on my phone  no longer work.  My phone looks like a Blackberry but it's the very last AT&T phone using Android that has the similar QWERTY keyboard.  I am now almost sick of it.

[trinacriabob]

Ok, how about removable battery or non-removable battery?  There are still a select few that have a removable battery.  I have removed the battery on my current phone some 10 to 20 times over the years to cause it to unfreeze.  It was instinctive to do that and it sure has worked.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, trinacriabob said:

Ok, how about removable battery or non-removable battery?  There are still a select few that have a removable battery.  I have removed the battery on my current phone some 10 to 20 times over the years to cause it to unfreeze.  It was instinctive to do that and it sure has worked.

My Note 8 does not have that option anymore for removable, but then I have not ever had a freeze issue on it either so no need to do that and I now make a habit of rebooting it once a week to have it boot up clean.

[Drew Dowdell]

7 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

Ok, how about removable battery or non-removable battery?  There are still a select few that have a removable battery.  I have removed the battery on my current phone some 10 to 20 times over the years to cause it to unfreeze.  It was instinctive to do that and it sure has worked.

Most of the higher end phones we've been recommending done have removable batteries. You can just press and hold the power button to power off the phone, same as a battery pull.

[Robert Hall]

There can't be many phones left w/ removable battery..can't recall when I've had a phone w/ one..maybe 10 years ago.

[trinacriabob]

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

There can't be many phones left w/ removable battery..can't recall when I've had a phone w/ one..maybe 10 years ago.

It's recent but not new.  The LG V20 (Android 7) is such a phone.

Have you had more current phones freeze or lock up?  How did you get them "unstuck?"

[frogger]

2 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

It's recent but not new.  The LG V20 (Android 7) is such a phone.

Have you had more current phones freeze or lock up?  How did you get them "unstuck?"

I have a v20 as a backup and my DAP.  I have a tablet that freezes once in a while and the button combination works.

[Drew Dowdell]

6 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

It's recent but not new.  The LG V20 (Android 7) is such a phone.

Have you had more current phones freeze or lock up?  How did you get them "unstuck?"

Press and hold power until it shuts off.

[riviera74]

The iPhone led the industry in NOT having removable phones.  Many Android models have since followed suit, especially in the last five years.  Holding down the power button until it allows you to switch it off or turns off by itself is the best way to deal with a stuck phone these days.

[trinacriabob]

19 hours ago, frogger said:

I have a v20 as a backup and my DAP.  I have a tablet that freezes once in a while and the button combination works.

Do you like the LG V20?  The reviews seem to like it.

- - - - -

Here's where I'm at.  I want to buy a damn phone this week. (I do no want an I-phone.)

LG V20

• (2016 release date)
• O.S.:  Android 7, upgrade to Android 8 available
• Battery:  removable
• Reviews: 4+ (around 4.3)
• Glass:  not Corning and not waterproof
• Quirks:  dual screen or something to that effect; will definitely need a strong case
• Purchase:  after market, can participate in "AT&T bring your own phone." Question:  will it in fact be new and what does "open box" mean?

Kyocera DuraForce Pro 2

Kyocera DuraForce Pro 2 (first version was Android 4 or sim.)

• (2018 release date)
• O.S.: Android 8
• Battery: non-removable
• Reviews: high 3s (almost 4)
• Glass: sapphire (does not scratch) but not as tough as Corning Gorilla glass; some amount of waterproofing
• Quirks: no FM radio - which I've never used on any phone; sturdy construction but some still report breaking the glass
• Purchase:  offered by AT&T - I would be continuing on at about $15 a month for the phone

Both phones: storage, RAM, camera megapixels, etc. about the same for both phones.

I want to stick with AT&T (long-time customer) and I want a mid-priced phone since I am not a power user.

Of these two, which would you choose? Thanks.

 

 

[frogger]

17 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

Do you like the LG V20?  The reviews seem to like it.

- - - - -

Here's where I'm at.  I want to buy a damn phone this week. (I do no want an I-phone.)

LG V20

• (2016 release date)
• O.S.:  Android 7, upgrade to Android 8 available
• Battery:  removable
• Reviews: 4+ (around 4.3)
• Glass:  not Corning and not waterproof
• Quirks:  dual screen or something to that effect; will definitely need a strong case
• Purchase:  after market, can participate in "AT&T bring your own phone." Question:  will it in fact be new and what does "open box" mean?

Kyocera DuraForce Pro 2

Kyocera DuraForce Pro 2 (first version was Android 4 or sim.)

• (2018 release date)
• O.S.: Android 8
• Battery: non-removable
• Reviews: high 3s (almost 4)
• Glass: sapphire (does not scratch) but not as tough as Corning Gorilla glass; some amount of waterproofing
• Quirks: no FM radio - which I've never used on any phone; sturdy construction but some still report breaking the glass
• Purchase:  offered by AT&T - I would be continuing on at about $15 a month for the phone

Both phones: storage, RAM, camera megapixels, etc. about the same for both phones.

I want to stick with AT&T (long-time customer) and I want a mid-priced phone since I am not a power user.

 

 

I don't think I would pick the v20 as a daily use phone at this point because of the battery life and lack of updates.  Newer flagship and midtier phones have much better battery life.  I think I would be happier with a new $350 phone.  I specifically acquired a used v20 for $150 to use with my entry level hifi headphones.

Open box could mean a lot of different things but usually it would be a customer return.

Here are a few options at different price points I would consider.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07HD2X91Q

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FM3QZY2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_JtEXCbX2YCECQ

[frogger]

Now I would put the new Pixel 3a/3aXL into serious consideration..