Jeep News: Rumorpile: A Grand Wagoneer Trackhawk?!

[William Maley]

The Jeep Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer has been talked about for the past few years, mostly in terms of delays and figuring out what platform will underpin it. But a new report from Road & Track reveals Jeep has something very special in store.

An internal document from transmission supplier ZF lists the 2018 production and pre-production vehicles using a version of their 8HP eight-speed automatic transmission. Among the vehicles listed the Grand Wagoneer with the platform code ZS. What makes this more intriguing is the mention of a Grand Wagoneer Trackhawk. The listing says it has a 6.2L V8 and produces 729 PS - about 718 horsepower. Like the Grand Cherokee Trackhawk, the Wagoneer Trackhawk uses a beefed-up version of the eight-speed automatic - ZF-8HP95X.

Could this mean that Jeep will be launching a mad Wagoneer in the coming years? Possibly not. Road & Track has some possible guesses as to why this is mentioned,

• Someone goofed while working on this document
• FCA has built some Wagoneer prototypes with the Hellcat engine, but hasn't made plans to put it into production

Source: Road & Track

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[G. David Felt]

Very cool!  Me like it greatly!  

[G. David Felt]

Have to say that the discussion at Allpar with pictures is interesting. I love the nod to the original Grand Wagoneer. Lots of posted photoshops of what it might look like there.

https://www.allpar.com/SUVs/jeep/wagoneer-jeep.html

Wonder if we will still get something looking like this?

[G. David Felt]

[Drew Dowdell]

Grand Wagoneer TrailHawk is what will get my attention..

[G. David Felt]

[Drew Dowdell]

19 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Those can't all be for the US. We're not getting the Grand Commander for example 

[G. David Felt]

15 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Those can't all be for the US. We're not getting the Grand Commander for example 

I was also wondering about that, but in searching FCA website you can find some interesting images but not much explaining it.

[smk4565]

I predict a 100% chance of a Hellcat Grand Wagoneer happening, I am shocked there isn't a Hellcat Ram pick up yet.   This is FCA's one trick and they'll keep playing it as long as they can.   This is the only way they know how to get profit margin on a car, but eventually this will run it's course and these Hellcat V8s that get 11 mpg will be getting smoked by every electric car on the market and no one will want them anymore.

Once upon a time, GM thought the way to make profit margin was to drop Northstar V8s in Bonnevilles and Lucernes, and 5.3 V8s into Impalas and Monte Carlos and throw lots of SS badging on them.  No one wants those cars now, and the modern turbo 4 sedans outrun most of those beasts.  The same will happen with all these Hemi vehicles, some of which are 365 hp from a 5.7 liter V8, there are 2 liter engines making more than that now.

[Robert Hall]

4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Those can't all be for the US. We're not getting the Grand Commander for example 

Right...I also noticed when this first made the rounds a 'Low D 3 row' -- a 3 row version of the next Cherokee, and a 3 row midsize listed (E-segment 3 row).  Basically a 3 row GC...wonder if it will be branded as a GC and sort of be the Durango replacement..   Since Jeep has 0 3 rows now, I could see both of these here given how hot the CUV/SUV market is...

Edited July 19, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

I predict a 100% chance of a Hellcat Grand Wagoneer happening, I am shocked there isn't a Hellcat Ram pick up yet.   This is FCA's one trick and they'll keep playing it as long as they can.   This is the only way they know how to get profit margin on a car, but eventually this will run it's course and these Hellcat V8s that get 11 mpg will be getting smoked by every electric car on the market and no one will want them anymore.

Once upon a time, GM thought the way to make profit margin was to drop Northstar V8s in Bonnevilles and Lucernes, and 5.3 V8s into Impalas and Monte Carlos and throw lots of SS badging on them.  No one wants those cars now, and the modern turbo 4 sedans outrun most of those beasts.  The same will happen with all these Hemi vehicles, some of which are 365 hp from a 5.7 liter V8, there are 2 liter engines making more than that now.

Sad but true.  No one wants to pay for these low-mileage woolly mammoths, especially when it comes to repair bills and $4 gasoline.

[balthazar]

Again with the '$4/gallon gas' ?

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The same will happen with all these Hemi vehicles, some of which are 365 hp from a 5.7 liter V8, there are 2 liter engines making more than that now.

Back to thinking there's only a single tune for the Hemi, eh?

[thatjerryguy]

Before a Jeep Grand Wagoneer Trackhawk can haul ass FCA needs to get off theirs and actually build the Grand Wagoneer.

[ccap41]

18 hours ago, smk4565 said:

but eventually this will run it's course and these Hellcat V8s that get 11 mpg will be getting smoked by every electric car on the market and no one will want them anymore.

We will all be long dead before people stop wanting to hear a big-ole American V8. 

[Robert Hall]

If the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer ever does come out, I suspect it will have many trim levels, and a Trailhawk and Trackhawk would make sense..

Edited July 20, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[G. David Felt]

43 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

If the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer ever does come out, I suspect it will have many trim levels, and a Trailhawk and Trackhawk would make sense..

I agree that when the Wagoneer / Grand Wagoneer comes out we will have many trim levels and I suspect the Trackhawk will be an EV at the glacial pace FCA seems to get things done.  

[Robert Hall]

10 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I agree that when the Wagoneer / Grand Wagoneer comes out we will have many trim levels and I suspect the Trackhawk will be an EV at the glacial pace FCA seems to get things done.  

Electrohawk..

[G. David Felt]

44 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Electrohawk..

 I like the sound of that, "Grand Wagoneer Electrohawk"

Quick patent it before they steal it and then sell them the rights!  

[ccap41]

24 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Quick patent it before they steal it and then sell them the rights!  

That's a legitimately good idea. 

[Drew Dowdell]

22 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The same will happen with all these Hemi vehicles, some of which are 365 hp from a 5.7 liter V8, there are 2 liter engines making more than that now.

1

Exactly zero of those 2-liters will make the torque of the Hemi... at full throttle... at part throttle... 

A 365hp 5.7 liter is far more drivable than a 356hp 2.0 liter because ZERO LAG.

I don't know why it never will sink into your brain.. any motor will make 365 hp if you spin it fast enough. .. that doesn't mean you'd want to drive it.  

Spin your grandmother fast enough and she'll make 365hp too. Lets assume she can lift 5 pounds at 1 foot reach from her.  Do that at about 383,000 rpm and she's cooking up 365hp.

This is an extreme example, of course, but would you want to drive a 365hp car with a torque spec like that?  That's barely a lawnmower engine.

Before you bring up max torque at low RPM, you only get that at full boost which you also only get at full throttle.  A 5.7 has more torque available at part throttle than a 2.0T.

 

[smk4565]

The 5.7 Hemi is probably the worst V8 on the market.  If the super dated Nissan 5.6 liter V8 is still around throw that in there too.  Most V8s now are in the 450 hp range.  If you are going to put a V8 in a car and charge a price premium for it get V8 mileage then you shouldn’t get V6 horsepower.   The Corvette had a 400 hp V8 in 2006, the Hemi is still behind that. 

[Suaviloquent]

Well the thing is that it may be outdated yes, but Dodge makes it wildly available and it’s not an inexpensive option - they don’t force packages on top of packages with the 5.7 HEMI. It’s demerits are par for the course reliability and power similar to Chevy’s small block 5.3. But honestly I’m satisfied that in 4000 lbs plus vehicles that the Hemi V8 is featured in, the twin turbo V6s and now even four cyclinders would offer barely any real world FE advantage. 

 

And it’s port-injected too, so no carbon build-up!

 

[Drew Dowdell]

18 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The 5.7 Hemi is probably the worst V8 on the market.  If the super dated Nissan 5.6 liter V8 is still around throw that in there too.  Most V8s now are in the 450 hp range.  If you are going to put a V8 in a car and charge a price premium for it get V8 mileage then you shouldn’t get V6 horsepower.   The Corvette had a 400 hp V8 in 2006, the Hemi is still behind that. 

Just stop. You're wrong so many times in this post and I'm only at 83% battery left.

[Drew Dowdell]

On ‎7‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 11:46 PM, smk4565 said:

The 5.7 Hemi is probably the worst V8 on the market.  If the super dated Nissan 5.6 liter V8 is still around throw that in there too.  Most V8s now are in the 450 hp range.  If you are going to put a V8 in a car and charge a price premium for it get V8 mileage then you shouldn’t get V6 horsepower.   The Corvette had a 400 hp V8 in 2006, the Hemi is still behind that. 

It's smooth, inexpensive, reliable, delivers good torque, and is reasonably fuel efficient for a V8.  WTF is wrong with that?  It's also the only way to get a V8 in a sedan at $33k or 370hp in a sedan at $33k.  If you're looking for the most horsepower for dollar... Hemi is where its at.