Toyota News: Upcoming Toyota Supra To Offer Turbo-Four and Six

[William Maley]

Last August, we reported on a BMW document that revealed the next-generation Z4 and all-new Toyota Supra would have the choice of a 2.0L turbo-four and twin-turbo 3.0L inline-six. Now, a new document from German transmission maker ZF seems to confirm this.

The document in question is a "transmission catalogue" that lists the various implementations of the eight-speed ZF 8HP. For the Supra, it has two BMW engines listed - the 2.0L turbo-four with 265 horsepower and 3.0L twin-turbo inline-six with 335 horsepower. The Z4 will get the same engines, but will offer a more potent inline-six with 375 horsepower.

Testsuya Tada, the chief engineer on the Supra did confirm the turbo-four to R&T during the Goodwood Festival of Speed last weekend. He explained that the turbo-four would offer " better weight distribution" and a sharper turn-in. 

Toyota used the Goodwood Festival of Speed to tease the Supra by running a prototype on the hill climb. Hopefully, Toyota decides to reveal the Supra sometime in the near future.

Source: Road & Track

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[G. David Felt]

The cameo car above just does not inspire me. 

[Drew Dowdell]

A Toyota Supra designed by BMW. A Fiat 124 designed and built by Mazda. A Toyota Yaris hatch designed and built by Mazda. An Infiniti designed by Mercedes-Benz, built by Infiniti in England.

It's tough to keep up with who does what anymore.

This car though looks like a Z4 with a Toyota nose on it. 

[G. David Felt]

Thank you @Drew Dowdell you nailed it perfect, a Z4 with a Toyota nose job.

[smk4565]

I think a Z4 with a BMW nose would sell better than a Z4 with a Toyota nose.  I still wonder how they will price the Supra, I feel like they will price it too high.

[Suaviloquent]

The Toyota 86 is overpriced and this car will be too.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

I think a Z4 with a BMW nose would sell better than a Z4 with a Toyota nose.  I still wonder how they will price the Supra, I feel like they will price it too high.

I agree... if I am going to buy this car, I'll buy the real one not the Toyota knock-off.

The only reason why I wouldn't is if there is a significant price or equipment difference, but it doesn't sound like there will be. 

[Robert Hall]

Hmm...interesting.  A Toyota w/ a BMW 6.   BMW 6s are good engines, but a Supra needs a Toyota straight 6, IMO. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Hmm...interesting.  A Toyota w/ a BMW 6.   BMW 6s are good engines, but a Supra needs a Toyota straight 6, IMO. 

But Toyota doesn't make straight  six and never will since they can't use it in the Camry/Highlander/Sienna, so the Toyota transverse mounted 3.5 V6 will live on another 10 years.

[smk4565]

6 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I agree... if I am going to buy this car, I'll buy the real one not the Toyota knock-off.

The only reason why I wouldn't is if there is a significant price or equipment difference, but it doesn't sound like there will be. 

A Kia Stinger starts at $31k for the turbo 4 and $43k for the V6 and it has similar horsepower to the Supra.  Plus it is a larger car and we don't know what the Supra's interior is, but I imagine it isn't BMW level and is more Kia level.   With that being said, I think around $31k for the base Supra and $39k for the inline six seems logical.  If they go higher it won't sell.

[Robert Hall]

11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But Toyota doesn't make straight  six and never will since they can't use it in the Camry/Highlander/Sienna, so the Toyota transverse mounted 3.5 V6 will live on another 10 years.

Toyota used to make straight 6s, all 4 past generations of Supra had straight 6s.   Alas, they have to make V6s for the transverse engine appliances.

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

A Kia Stinger starts at $31k for the turbo 4 and $43k for the V6 and it has similar horsepower to the Supra.  Plus it is a larger car and we don't know what the Supra's interior is, but I imagine it isn't BMW level and is more Kia level.   With that being said, I think around $31k for the base Supra and $39k for the inline six seems logical.  If they go higher it won't sell.

Different market niche than the Stinger.  I suspect the Supra will be higher priced than the 370Z, probably closer to Corvette pricing..

Edited July 19, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

But Toyota doesn't make straight  six and never will since they can't use it in the Camry/Highlander/Sienna, so the Toyota transverse mounted 3.5 V6 will live on another 10 years.

They could make a straight 6 and put it in all the RWD Lexuses.  Just like MB is doing. 

[smk4565]

19 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

They could make a straight 6 and put it in all the RWD Lexuses.  Just like MB is doing. 

Which is how many Lexus if the GS dies like is rumored and the IS may or may not get another generation, and even if it does the majority would be 4 cylinder models.  So now they are making an I-6 for the Supra, and LS500 because 80% of Lexus sales are fwd crossovers and grandpa's ES350.  Lexus is stuck with the Camry platform and V6 because that is where the Toyota volume comes from.  If Toyota had rear drive platforms and engines suitable for a sports car they wouldn't need BMW to do it for them.

And if the Supra is priced anywhere near a Corvette they are delusional.  

[Drew Dowdell]

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Which is how many Lexus if the GS dies like is rumored and the IS may or may not get another generation, and even if it does the majority would be 4 cylinder models.  So now they are making an I-6 for the Supra, and LS500 because 80% of Lexus sales are fwd crossovers and grandpa's ES350.  Lexus is stuck with the Camry platform and V6 because that is where the Toyota volume comes from.  If Toyota had rear drive platforms and engines suitable for a sports car they wouldn't need BMW to do it for them.

And if the Supra is priced anywhere near a Corvette they are delusional.  

LX, GX, LS, LC, plus a Supra.... and then maybe there is enough reason for the GS to stick around.

My guess is they'll combine IS and GS into a single car like Cadillac is doing.  So there is a 6th vehicle... and they could put it in the Tundra, Sequoia, and Land Cruiser as well for the fuel economy option.  That's more than plenty volume for a single engine design. 

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

LX, GX, LS, LC, plus a Supra.... and then maybe there is enough reason for the GS to stick around.

My guess is they'll combine IS and GS into a single car like Cadillac is doing.  So there is a 6th vehicle... and they could put it in the Tundra, Sequoia, and Land Cruiser as well for the fuel economy option.  That's more than plenty volume for a single engine design. 

Well the ES is the same size as the GS, so they can just keep the IS as a small car, ES is mid-size already and the LS sticks around to sell its 500 cars a month.  The LX and GX are sales dogs, I can't see them lasting much longer, LX might since Toyota will probably keep the Land Cruiser.   But when you look at LX, GX, LC, LS those combined are like 30,000 units a year, there is no volume there, which is why Toyota has lets those vehicles on market for ever to die on the vine.  The previous LS went nearly 10 years before a major overhaul and that is their flagship and original Lexus, now they barely pay attention to it.

[Drew Dowdell]

23 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Well the ES is the same size as the GS, so they can just keep the IS as a small car, ES is mid-size already and the LS sticks around to sell its 500 cars a month.  The LX and GX are sales dogs, I can't see them lasting much longer, LX might since Toyota will probably keep the Land Cruiser.   But when you look at LX, GX, LC, LS those combined are like 30,000 units a year, there is no volume there, which is why Toyota has lets those vehicles on market for ever to die on the vine.  The previous LS went nearly 10 years before a major overhaul and that is their flagship and original Lexus, now they barely pay attention to it.

You're correct that the ES will stick around.  I mainly see Lexus doing some platform consolidateion. If the 5, 6, and 7 series can all share a platform, so can GS and LS.  An IS could ride on a Supra platform and that would give it some real performance cred.  The LX and GX are profit makers since they are just  De Lux Toyotas... I'm sure they have among the highest profit margins in the entire Toyota portfolio. They'll find a way to make it work. 

The LS and LC are new... not sure why you think those have been rotting on the vine. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You're correct that the ES will stick around.  I mainly see Lexus doing some platform consolidateion. If the 5, 6, and 7 series can all share a platform, so can GS and LS.  An IS could ride on a Supra platform and that would give it some real performance cred.  The LX and GX are profit makers since they are just  De Lux Toyotas... I'm sure they have among the highest profit margins in the entire Toyota portfolio. They'll find a way to make it work. 

The LS and LC are new... not sure why you think those have been rotting on the vine. 

Can they build an IS on a Supra platform or would that require BMW's permission?  At which point BMW may not want that 3-series competition and veto that idea.

The LS and LC are brand new but not selling that well.  Combined they are at 4,385 for the first half of the year, the S-class is at 8,425 and Lexus is undercutting Mercedes in price by $15,000 on the sedan and $32,000 on the coupe.   Imagine when the LC and LS sit around for 5 years with no improvements, the last LS went 10 years with the same 4.6 liter V8, 10 years!  

The GS for the year sold less units than the E-class sells in a month, the GS is dead in the water, another car that has gone too long with no powertrain improvements and all they did was put an ugly grill with boy racer looks on the outside with a chopped up mess of an interior on the inside.  The RC sells even worse than the GS. 

[Suaviloquent]

What does Supra have to do with Lexus? 

The Supra is the new hot thing and it might as well plant nails in the coffin of the Lexus RC.

They have the GA-L platform and the LC is a hoot to drive just porky and larded with impeccable luxury on the inside as well. No worse than a 6 Series. It offers the luxury of Natural Aspiration and actual sound.

but I have a feeling that this car might be another chassis car that really lives up to the handling and feel of say - E90 3 Series. Also, the Z4 is a roadster, has the Supra ever been a car without a fixed roof?

 

What is funny SMK is that you pan carmakers’ models that sell high volumes and make good profit but aren’t aligned with Mercedes and then you also go after the same cars like the LC and LS 500 that are direct competition with Mercedes but because they don’t sell in high numbers they are not viable!

 

 

 

 

 

[G. David Felt]

Z4 versus Supra Which one do I like best. Hate to say it but the Supra looks better even in Camo.

https://jalopnik.com/oh-cool-its-the-toyota-supra-and-bmw-z4-just-hanging-ou-1827837643

Plenty of close up pics of the Supra and Z4 at the story link above.