Death of the V8?

[Satty]

At one point I had a fleet of FOUR vehicles, each with a V8.

(STS, Camaro, F.Brougham & Suburban)

My 240Z powered Maxima is the only NON V8 in my

fleet right now, if I ever get rid of that car I just

might never own a NON-V8 car again. Or then again

I just might follow through with my plans of stuffing

an LS1 or LS6 into the Datsun.

FU$% four bangers, screw V6s and to hell with hybrids.

The only way someone is going to get me out of an

I6/V8 powered car will be a flat-four turbo or a rotary.

Its too bad Nissan doesn't have a factory certified used vehicle program for cars more than 10 years old, they're losing you as a potentially valuable customer.

[balthazar]

97regalGS= go back and re-read the original post.

How many times would be good for you- 6? YOU go back and read it again. You'll be surprised at the ambiguity. While your at it, re-read every post in this thread just for sh!ts & giggles, then do it again.

trucks were omitted cause they were not part of the original discussion.

Trucks were omitted BEFORE there was any discussion. YOU go find the reason WHY in the first post, or any subsequent post.

In making a point about the popularity of a particular configuration of engine, there really is no legitimate reason to exclude half of the consumer's purchases in order to stack the deck for that point.

most of you haven't grapsed the thrust of evok's discussion but instead have migrated towards the title of the article and latched on to the word 'Death'.

No: most of us have. But you bring up an excellent point: "death" WAS a gross misnomer. But over-sensationalizing an alarmist theory is going to garner that very sort of response.

[Camino LS6]

Maybe the title should have been:

The Venerable V8 Goes Upmarket

or:

V8: The New Status Symbol?

with an opening something like this:

The once ubiquitous V8 is fast becoming the "halo" option of choice wherever it is offered...

It's all spin, anyone can do it.

[balthazar]

A journalistic fork in the road:

Fact: 'A woman enjoys intimacy'.

Spin: 'Your mother is a c**ks**ker'.

Which way should the discussion go?

[97regalGS]

A journalistic fork in the road:

Fact: 'A woman enjoys intimacy'.

Spin: 'Your mother is a c**ks**ker'.

Which way should the discussion go?

I guess it would depend on who's mother we were talking about.

[97regalGS]

trucks were omitted cause they were not part of the original discussion.

Trucks were omitted BEFORE there was any discussion. YOU go find the reason WHY in the first post, or any subsequent post.

In making a point about the popularity of a particular configuration of engine, there really is no legitimate reason to exclude half of the consumer's purchases in order to stack the deck for that point.

wtf - evok said that he sees less and less relevance of V8 engines in passenger cars. he said nothing about trucks. one would assume that V8's will remain in trucks for quite some time to come, which harkens back to the 'Death' title which clearly should not have in the title of the article.

he framed the discussion - "V8's in passenger cars." others decided to bring in trucks. (if i made comments about VW's TDI being less relevant in the Golf does it make sense to start talking about the Duramax diesel in Chevy's HD lineup?) I don't think so. Again, the only reason that trucks enter the equation is because the title infers that the V8 is dead comletely.

most of you haven't grapsed the thrust of evok's discussion but instead have migrated towards the title of the article and latched on to the word 'Death'.

No: most of us have. But you bring up an excellent point: "death" WAS a gross misnomer. But over-sensationalizing an alarmist theory is going to garner that very sort of response.

actually, I don't think you have grasped the thrust. if a DI 3.6l can deliver 300hp in the DTS, then why do we need a V8 option? the car will go 0-60 in 6+ seconds with the V6, is dropping the 0-60 to 6 flat going to make that big of a difference? Not to most consumers. To most of the gear heads on this board it is not acceptable but to the people that are actually out there buying new cars, it is not an issue.

Today's V6's are delivering the performance of yesterday's V8's. At some point, to the average consumer, the law of diminishing returns starts to kick in where the benefit of moving to a V8 just isn't there. And I think we are reaching that point now. Think about it 300hp V6 engines! Who the hell needs that much hp? The answer is probably no one, but I'll leave it at a few.

And just to really get you guys in a tizzy, can you imagine if the domestics didn't have the truck market to absorb the development dollars of their V8's. There would be no LS6/LS7, and if by chance there were (due to C5.R racing etc) they would cost a heck of a lot more than they do now due to the extremely low volumes in CARS.

[evok]

Maybe the title should have been:

The Venerable V8 Goes Upmarket

or:

V8: The New Status Symbol?

with an opening something like this:

     The once ubiquitous V8 is fast becoming the "halo" option of choice wherever it is offered...

It's all spin, anyone can do it.

Na a title is a title - it is the words in between the books jacket that are important.

I do not think Mein Kampf was a coming of age book, which to some the title might imply. It was the words after the title that held the most weight.

Edited June 16, 2006 by evok

[Sixty8panther]

Thank You.  Those were some very constructive comments on this topic, providing some unique insights and valued perspective.

Well $hit as long as we're beating a ... why not just talk

in terms of subjectivity? This became silly at page 3 so why not just

go back and re-read what most of us have already said.

[balthazar]

97regalGS= wtf - evok said that he sees less and less relevance of V8 engines in passenger cars. he said nothing about trucks. ...he framed the discussion - "V8's in passenger cars." others decided to bring in trucks. ...the only reason that trucks enter the equation is because the title infers that the V8 is dead comletely.

But the original framing begs the question- what about passenger trucks? A great quantity of consumers who more than a decade back bought V-8 cars are now buying V-8 trucks. There was a market shift- not in the preference of the motor, but in a preference of the vehicle that same motor was in. Any thorough analysis of the V-8's longevity/appeal HAS to take into consideration the entire picture. Eliminating trucks doesn't do that and the segregation is unwarranted, regardless of the original framing. Are we talking about how cars are changing, or the supposed irevelence of the future V-8?

if a DI 3.6l can deliver 300hp in the DTS, then why do we need a V8 option? the car will go 0-60 in 6+ seconds with the V6, is dropping the 0-60 to 6 flat going to make that big of a difference?

I would agree, but signs to the contrary are everywhere. In '01 the Duramax put out 300/520, in '04 it was 310/605, now it's 360/650. 300/520 was fine and completely capable. Didn't matter- "progress" was demanded. Corvette goes what- 165? Doesn't matter- we need a 200-MPH Z-06. In my state, you have to have a CDL to pull over 10K-lbs, but HD 3500-class trucks now pull 19K.

A great shift in the media and the minds of consumers will have to occur to grind this HP & "progress' war to a halt. In the musclecar era it was the fuel "crisis" of '73. Maybe this HP war / gas price issue is precisely timed for another upheaval. But it goes against (current) human nature to sit back and say 'enough is enough' and stop for no other reason than because it makes sense. We're just not wired that way anymore.

[Guest The Shelf]

this whole thread is mute. GM has Shelved development of the V8. It all stops with the LS7. :AH-HA_wink:

[91z4me]

this whole thread is mute.  GM has Shelved development of the V8.  It all stops with the LS7.  :AH-HA_wink:

MOOT not mute!

[Sixty8panther]

A great shift in the media and the minds of consumers will have to occur to grind this HP & "progress' war to a halt. In the musclecar era it was the fuel "crisis" of '73. Maybe this HP war / gas price issue is precisely timed for another upheaval.

I hope not, never say never but that would STILL not mean "the death of the V8"

Like Balthazar said it's not in our genetic chemistry to want to unerachieve, well

not for most of us non-Prius/Camry drivers.

Consider this: durring the greatest depression of the 21st century when most

people had a problem fueling up their Model-Ts Cadillac was busy churning out

V16 powered long wheelbase towncars, phaetons & formal sedans.

[Camino LS6]

MOOT not mute!

I hate to say it,91z, but I think you are on the outside of a rather tacky inside joke.

[redfox]

The v8 is not dead and will not die check the merlin chevy engine site and you will find they have the small block up to 454ci and over 600hp theres still alot left in the small block.

[91z4me]

I hate to say it,91z, but I think you are on the outside of a rather tacky inside joke.

I am ok with that as long as people know that moot means it doesn't matter and that mute means no volume.

[Guest The Shelf]

I am ok with that as long as people know that moot means it doesn't matter and that mute means no volume.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WHAT?

[Flybrian]

He couldn't hear you, 91z. He had his ears on moot.

[97regalGS]

WHAT?

if you're concerned about grammar, spelling and using the correct words then you can have a full time job here on C&G, cause you can't go 1 page without spotting an error. some out of haste and some out of ignorance.

[Sixty8panther]

Everybody's yelling! LOUD NOISES!!! [/brick]

[Sixty8panther]

ypi?

you lost me buddy...

[balthazar]

typo: "pi" right next to "ou", 'ypi' > 'you'

[evok]

typo: "pi" right next to "ou", 'ypi' > 'you'

Yea - intentional at that.

[Mr.Krinkle]

talk about a bad turn. wheres joshiepoo?

anyone?

[Sixty8panther]

typo: "pi" right next to "ou", 'ypi' > 'you'

Thanks. I did make that connection except for the

fact that there was a question mark at the end....

[Satty]

talk about a bad turn.  wheres joshiepoo?

anyone?

The cell phone cowboy has ridden off into the sunset in a soon to be reposessed Solstice, all of those mocking him have followed.

[Moriarty]

Well, it looks like everyone's had a great time. Looks like it's time for my two bits.

It seems to me that the reason that passenger cars don't have V-8's is because V-8's generally are less reliable, more expensive, heavier, take up more volume, have less fuel efficiency, and V-6's generally don't. (did I forget anything?)

So the question is "is this true (generally)?"

1. Less reliable: I would say that comparing two engines, a V-6 and a V-8, each getting similar horsepower, the V-8 would probably be more reliable because it is a lower RPM engine, due to it's larger displacement. Lower RPM, less wear and tear on the engine. However, the counterpoint is that the V-8 has more moving parts, and therefore is less reliable. However, I think I heard somewhere that a OHC V-6 actually has more moving parts than a OHV V-8. I may be wrong.

2. More Expensive (to make): Somebody said that it's dirt cheap to make a Hemi compared to an OHC V-6. I don't know why that would be, but that may be right. As for building a low tech V-8 vs a high tech V-6 with similar horsepower, it would seem that the V-8 would be cheaper. Also, GM has been making small-blocks for so long that it would seem that they could build them very cheaply, at least compared to new high-tech V-6's.

3. Heavier: New aluminum-block V-8's are said to be very light. I don't know how they compare to V-6's, but I would assume V-8's to be slightly heavier, as long as they are significantly larger displacement than the V-6's. If the V-8 and the V-6 have the same displacement, than it would depend on engineering issues. Personally, I don't think you can generalize V-8's and V-6's in this catagory.

4. Take up more Volume: OHV V-8's are smaller volume-wise than OHC V-6's, due to packaging issues. This is only has to do with OHV vs OHC, not V-8 vs V-6. OHV V-8's are bigger than OHV V-6's, which apparently only GM has.

5. Less Fuel Efficiency: V-8's are generally less fuel efficient because they have bigger displacement, plain and simple. However, many V-8's are quite fuel efficient as seen in comparison to a V-6 in a Power:MPG ratio. Compare a 400hp Vette getting 20mpg compared to a 250hp Sedan getting 25mpg. Most people don't see it that way, though.

It seems to me that the fundamental differences between V-6's and V-8's getting similar horsepower is price and fuel efficiency, with price going in V-8's favor, and mph in the V-6's favor.

Most everyone appreciates driving a car with an engine that has lots of power on demand. V-8's are the cheapest way to get lots of power.

So, if V-8's are ever to be sold in high-volumes, an engine must be built that can compete with the V-6 in fuel economy while still providing cheaper power. This may be done through DoD, Hybrid Transmissions, 3-valve heads, efficient design, etc.

It seems to me that a cheap 300 hp V-8 that could get 24 mpg combined could find many applications in passenger cars, especially if it's RWD. Also, especially in larger cars, the additional torque supplied by V-8's will always be a plus.

So, if you haven't already guessed, I hope that V-8's do NOT decline in availiability in the future.

[rkmdogs]

Real packaging is related to external dimensions.

And yes but maybe not that drastic.

143971[/snapback]

Evok, I don't know where you get your expertise from, but you had better go back and re-read that comic book!

Engines are designed from the inside out. Bore spacing and crank stroke are the

major design criteria. These control what the outside dimensions are, after you

factor in wall thickness, cooling & oiling passages, etc.

Your bleating about number of cylinders is worse than chicken-littles' "the sky is falling!" hysteria.

Proper engine design concerns itself with what the application requirements will

be, abeit in terms of performance, loads and efficiency. Number of cylinders and

outside dimensions become secondary factors, sometimes relating to economics

or all engines would display the best known efficient design parameters all the time!

Desmodromic valves, electronically controlled, ceramic internal components, etc

would be in every engine if cost and reliability were not a factor.

You guys all amuse me with your postulating about engines. Betcha never even

replaced the 710 cover on one of them!

:AH-HA_wink:

[rkmdogs]

Please read the context of the discussion from which you choose to selectively quote.  That might help before you post some nonsense to me.

202256[/snapback]

The nonsense is the crap that you have been posting. I just called for a reality check!

I believe that the initial topic was you postulating that V-8 engines for passenger cars were dead! Then you carried on with some other B/S comments, and the one that I challenged you on pertained to engine external dimensions being the

most important factor!

And only on TV shows is truth a non-important fact!

You need to learn your subject more, before you blow your horn.

Remember, people may only THINK that you are a fool, until you open your

mouth and prove it!!!!

[Sixty8panther]

This thread is like the villain in a cheesy horror movie...

it just will NOT f$cking die!

[razoredge]

Go boys GO !

Now we all can see why the Government has not accomplished a thing in 200 years. Now we can see why in business the "too many Chiefs, not enough Indians" saying came abouts. Now we can see where the expression "the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing" Now we can see why American corporations are in such a shambles.

V8's are dead...they'll soon be replaced by V16's

[rkmdogs]

Real packaging is related to external dimensions.

And yes but maybe not that drastic.

143971[/snapback]

Evok,

Here again is your half-ass comment from last May!

Your philosophy and observations about the longevity of the V-8 configuration

for an internal combustion engine design are so devoid of factual engineering

data as to not be worth the ink it takes to print them!

Chew on this!

[rkmdogs]

Ok you dimwit I will spell it out for you:  External dimensions of an engine related to packaging the engine into a platform.

202951[/snapback]

........ AND..... what has that got to do with the number of cylinders of an engine...

which IS the topic of this thread!

Would you like to try and stuff a Cummins 6-cyl diesel into a Cobalt?

Or would a Ferrari 250cc V-12 not fit either?

Duh! The external dimensions are derived from what INTERNAL dimensions are

chosen for a given design, not the other way around.

But of course you already knew that, and were just "funnin" with us.

[PurdueGuy]

Fu$k that.

I think the V8 is just now reaching it's golden age.

DOD means the V8 will become more prominent

in years to come. Between the cheap feel & N.V.H.

of 4s and V6s I do not aspire ot own too many.

99.9% of my dream cars are either V8, I6, I8 or in

some cases two I6s or I8s joined at the crank. :wink:

What you describe is pretty much my worst nightmare.

I say GM needs a modern 215.... or perhaps even smaller

family of V8s. Mazda had the right idea with the MX3 GSV6,

except they need to make baby V8s instead of baby V6s.

143915[/snapback]

No offense, but what you want rarely has anything in common with what the average consumer cares about... you tend to love the more specialty vehicles that he talked about still using V8's.

IMO, 8's are for trucks, truck-based SUVs, and muscle cars. Heck, a lot of the 6's are overkill for the average commuter.

*edit* wow, I didn't realize how long this thread was. Seems odd, me commenting on a first page post like 15 pages later... lol

Edited October 9, 2006 by PurdueGuy

[FloydHendershot]

Fu$k that.

I think the V8 is just now reaching it's golden age.

DOD means the V8 will become more prominent

in years to come. Between the cheap feel & N.V.H.

of 4s and V6s I do not aspire ot own too many.

99.9% of my dream cars are either V8, I6, I8 or in

some cases two I6s or I8s joined at the crank. :wink:

What you describe is pretty much my worst nightmare.

I say GM needs a modern 215.... or perhaps even smaller

family of V8s. Mazda had the right idea with the MX3 GSV6,

except they need to make baby V8s instead of baby V6s.

Um, yeah, you need to reset the dials on your time machine.

Its too bad(for you) but the v8 doesnt seem to be in the volume golden age.

Unless they can make a v8 motor with 40 mpg no one wants to know about it.

Hybrids and alternative fuels moreso are the wave of the future but MPG is going to be king.

[Sixty8panther]

Thanks for resurecting an ancient, horrible thread.

Enjoy your Prius. :AH-HA_wink: I've said my peace & I'm done throwing verbal punches.

Edited May 10, 2007 by Sixty8panther

[FloydHendershot]

Thanks for resurecting an ancient, horrible thread.

Enjoy your Prius. :AH-HA_wink: I've said my peace & I'm done throwing verbal punches.

You know something this was on the first page of "Feature Articles" and I originally thought it was a response to GM's decision to put off the V8RWD. How fortuitious. I wouldnt classify it as ancient unless your head is stuck in the sand.

Horrible part however, I believe, I gather youll have to get another Datsun.

No one wants to pay the premium for Ethanol either. The miles arent so good and its expensive, if you can even find it anywhere.

And where I am from if you want to get someplace you should be prepared to be sitting in a car for a while. It gets costly to go from a to b which is what most people want in a car.

Toyotas volume cars arent v8's and they are doing ok for themselves. Carving out a niche market might be nice but only for people like you. Unfortuneately for you your opinion on this matter is virtually worthless. You like the prius? Isnt she pretty just sitting there waiting to get all sorts o wonderful miles per gallon.

So go and buy your 64 whatever or dream about being able to afford a Cadillac 16 that they will never ever build because they cant even get a 12cylinder motor to the market fast enough and meanwhile GM will figure on a plan to actually sell more cars for green money. The volt might be a good start especially if they plan on offering it with a regular powerplant as well, my guess to help eat manufacturing cost.

It shall be interesting to see where this goes IMHO because of the current limbo status and the tentative nature of market, especially presently.

Anyway Lost was coming on and couldnt squeeze this in.

Edited May 10, 2007 by FloydHendershot

[Sixty8panther]

Well, what ever, sorry to come off as hostile but this thread is kind

of an inside joke for me. XP & I often remark on it when we see a

CTS-V racing a Charger HEMI on Rt.3 in NH or like the otehr day

when we saw 3 Mustangs in about 20 minutes. Actaully we saw

about a dozen Mustangs in 20 minuts but we noticed the three that

were Shelby GT500s.

If the V8 was ever going to die it would have donw so in 1974. The

idea of the V8 dying is more lame to me than having to pay $4800

to replace the Batterys in your Prius in about 80,000 miles.

The V8 is not dying, it's not in danger it's not even becoming more

scarce, I Let's do some math, between 1997 and 2007 which year

do you think Chevrolet sold MORE V8s....?

In 1997 they probably sold 30,000 or so V8 powered Camaros &

a $hitload of Sliverados/Suburbans. Not tomention the Vette.

In 2007 I would be willing to bet that even the lame FWD Impala

is selling 30,000 V8 units, not to mention the Monte Carlo & the

hot-as-hell Corvette/Z06, as mentioned previously the Suburban,

Silverado, Tahoe, Trailblazer, Express etc.

The V8 has a healthier future today than it has in a long time.

[Satty]

Gas is at an all time high, not going down anytime soon. You can get very good every day performance out of a V6 with very good gas mileage, you can also get pretty good every day performance out of a 4cyl that will get far, far better mileage than a V8. So for the average consumer, the V8 is dead. For the enthusiast, it'll live, for everyone else, they're excess that becomes more of a burden every day. I'll take the 27mpg in the City that I get with the Fusion over the 19 I would get with a V8.

[gm4life]

The V8 is not dying with new technology AFM (DOD) it is not going anywhere plus with new 6 speed automatics and I see it staying for a while. I wish my Bonneville was a V8 but I couldn't find one without a moonroof and my wife didn't like the fuel economy. Had the GXP had a 6 spd. auto it prolly would have gotten close to 30! I hope this one ignorant fart with 23 post realizes that a Prius isn't the only answer to are problems. I hope he enjoys spending 5K for a battery pack. I plan to avoid buying a hybrid as long as I can. Because batteries are filled with acid and don't recycle so well now do they... Look at Pontiacs line-up in 2005, Bonneville GXP V8, Grand Prix GXP V8 and GTO V8. Next year they will have a G8 GT V8 and a Grand Prix GXP V8. I doubt they are dying. 1996 was the last year Buick had a V8 and look by 2008 they will have at least 2 in the line-up again. Buick Enclave will get a Super model and V8 along with the LaX and Lucerne too. V8's are not dead, seen a Charger or Magnum R/T lately? Prolly and look for years they made ugly V6 powered Interpids and LHS's.

Edited May 10, 2007 by gm4life

[Mr.Krinkle]

The V8 is not dying with new technology AFM (DOD) it is not going anywhere plus with new 6 speed automatics and I see it staying for a while. I wish my Bonneville was a V8 but I couldn't find one without a moonroof and my wife didn't like the fuel economy. .

I think you summed up the original intent of this topic with your second line.

V8's are not dead, seen a Charger or Magnum R/T lately? Prolly and look for years they made ugly V6 powered Interpids and LHS's.

And how has that been working out for them?

btw, according to GM v8's arent exxactly alive and kicking. You dont have to like it but thats what it is.

[Intrepidation]

Toyotas volume cars arent v8's and they are doing ok for themselves.

That'be because they still have yet to get the Tundra right.

Prolly and look for years they made ugly V6 powered Interpids and LHS's.

f@#k you.

Edited May 10, 2007 by Dodgefan

[Sixty8panther]

I'm still hearing &#036;h&#33; like the V8 is already dead...

That is a stupid statement. The day the LAST EVER

V8 powered car & truck rolls off the assembly line

I'll let you shoot me in the face w/ a .357 Magnum.

Chances are, the internal combustion motor is

going to stay in production to some capacity for

most of our lifetimes. I am willimg to bet it will

outlive me anyway. Hell, that's not to say that

it will not become more rare but dead is DEAD.

I could say that four cylinder cars are DEAD to

me since Ihave not owned one in 6 years but

it would be pretty stupid of me to say that four

cylinder cars are DEAD in general.

This is what I'm talking about this thread is the

equivelant of the photos of "BAT BOY" from

the Enquirerer passing for legit Journalism.

[Sixty8panther]

Ugly or not the 1997 Mopars did NOT include even ONE V8 powered

car, not ONE. Now they have 3 CARS in their lineup with two

different V8s, and several V8 powered trucks.

[gm4life]

The Interpid is ugly sorry, I just don't like them. I can't see V8's going anywhere in the near future. Panther is right, and they didn't offer one V8. At least GM did. I hope and think you are just kidding, but to each his own I say. At least it is domestic.

Edited May 10, 2007 by gm4life

[Sixty8panther]

Ugly or not, the point is Dodge & Chrysler were selling ZERO cars with V8s

a few years ago, so if sales of their V8 powered cars are down for 2007 it

does NOT indicate that the V8 is becoming LESS "popular" or anything even

CLOSE to waht the title of this thread indicates.

The death of the V8 means it is goign away completely. Maybe if gas hits

$10 a gallon and stays there ofr the next few years V8s will get scarce in

cars and less prominant in trucks but even then V8s are not dying any time

in the near future. Just the assumption is (sorry) f**king retarded.

[gm4life]

Well said, I don't think some people get it.

[balthazar]

...you can also get pretty good every day performance out of a 4cyl that will get far, far better mileage than a V8.

you can also get pretty good every day transportation out of a Buick that will be far, far more affordable than a BMW.

Yet people still want BMWs.

I agree with Sixty8 here: "dead" is DEAD. The V-8 is far from dead. Tossing around the term in any other capacity and then arguing to 'prove' that 'point' is just poking a sharpened stick at people around you, looking for a reaction.

[gm4life]

Dead means not coming back, and gone for good. We all know the V8 is not gone and it is here. God Bless the U.S.A. and American Cars and V8s...

[Mr.Krinkle]

There was a time when the v8 was the go to engine. No v8 = no sale. For trucks that will most likely never change. Same for lux. That was/is the selling point. But that was never the point of this. The selling point for cars that need to sell in volume has changed.

Someone brought up Chrysler. Thats the perfect example of why the v8 will not sell cars anymore.

In the not to distant future, the V8 might be relegated to a novelty status in the industry.

From the original post. Looking back now at this 'ancient' thread its surprising most of you dont comprehend what the meaning is/was. Wasnt lutz in the news not too long ago saying "rwd v8 plans on hold". The CAFE BS they are trying to pull. Someone else said earlier "its easy to predict the obvious"...Well jack, this wasnt all that obvious when it was first posted. Watch gas prices as they continue to climb. Wait for another hurricane to bring us back to earth. Any idea what P/U sales have been like the past few months?

I dont like it anymore than most of you but barring any major breakthrough thats the way the tide has turned. Put your feelings aside and understand wats going on. Barring a major breakthrough in engine technology or alternative fuel solution the v8 will become less and less common. DOD or AFM doesnt count. The returns havent been the least bit rewarding.

[ZL-1]

Evok's "death of the V8" remark was more of a "death of the V8 as a mainstream engine" remark. I'd like to see a discussion on his premise of the V8 becoming what it is today in Europe (a top-of-the-line engine) and not a discussion on his ability to choose an article title that pleases everyone.

Edited May 11, 2007 by ZL-1