Death of the V8?

[greg_nate]

V8 Volume is small and insignificant for the brands you mentioned.  In the US Cadillac probably sells more V8s than Lexus, MB,BMW and Infiniti combined in non truck based product.

This is the point I think people keep missing. Sure Toyota, DCX and BMW are coming out with new V8s, but they aren't in volume. They are simply producing V8 models to fill the performance gap between 6s and 8s.

And here's the other point that determines strongly what manufacturers produce: They strongly consider what will be sold in America. We are the largest market. America is the Holy Grail of auto manufacturers. If they can get into the American market, then they are saved.

What sells over here? Gasoline V8s. Period.

When we(Americans) start warming up to the new diesel engines and diesel fuels, I strongly believe we'll see monster diesel 4s and 6s in cars from Toyota, DCX and BMW.

30 years ago, the V8 had to fill a single need: Performance. Today, powertrain consideration need to meet performance as well as social considerations. Gasoline V8s are the only thing meet these requirements at the moment.

If VW, Audi, Saab or Volvo were smart, they'd build a small tuner oriented 4 cylinder diesel engine and sell it here in the states. Just imagine 300 ft/lbs of torque at 1000 rpms in a small car that weighs 2600 pounds. Nothing on the road could touch it. It would get 40+ mpg as well as give Dodge Vipers a run for their money. To boot, they could stroke the environmentalists by claiming it runs on Biodiesel. I am just surprised that it hasn't happened yet.

[Camino LS6]

One other point to consider: The move toward more RWD cars becoming available makes a V8 option a natural. Over the next 5 years, I expect to see an increase in the optional availability of V8s. I can't see a decline in V8 production any time soon. If FWD had remained the nearly exclusive layout it has recently been, then I might agree that the V8's days were numbered.

Fortunately, this is not the case.

[balthazar]

V8 Volume is small and insignificant for the brands you mentioned. In the US Cadillac probably sells more V8s than Lexus, MB,BMW and Infiniti combined in non truck based product.

The point is that those other makes' production is growing. There was no lexus or toyota V-8 fifteen years ago. There were far fewer mercedes V-8 offerings in far fewer models then, too. I would guess than 7-series and V-8 5/6-series production is higher than 15 years ago because BMW's overall volume has grown so much.

VS. 15 years ago, those brands, among others, oppose your theory. And with the recent volume of the luxury segment, I would not ever term them 'niche' offerings.

Plus, it's largely senseless to separate cars & trucks in industry trends; since the truck & SUV has breeched the 50% mark, the bulk of which is represented by non-work dedicated usage, their V-8 usage bears equal weight to this discussion.

Edited May 29, 2006 by balthazar

[evok]

The point is that those other makes' production is growing. There was no lexus or toyota V-8 fifteen years ago. There were far fewer mercedes V-8 offerings in far fewer models then, too. I would guess than 7-series and V-8 5/6-series production is higher than 15 years ago because BMW's overall volume has grown so much.

VS. 15 years ago, those brands, among others, oppose your theory. And with the recent volume of the luxury segment, I would not ever term them 'niche' offerings.

Plus, it's largely senseless to separate cars & trucks in industry trends; since the truck & SUV has breeched the 50% mark, the bulk of which is represented by non-work dedicated usage, their V-8 usage bears equal weight to this discussion.

In 1990 the Lexus LS400 sold about 40k (IIRC) V8 equipped cars. Lexus probably will not reach that volume in 2006 with the LS430 + GS430 + the SC430.

Yes more individual models for these lux brands now offer a V8 as an option, but it is a small percentage of sales.

The fleet is evolving and I pull BOF trucks out of the equations as these truck based SUV become car like. The market is already shifting as more crossovers are being offered by the OEM. The new CAFE requirements for light trucks will also help this out a lot.

[nikivee]

Same thing was said after the 1973 Oil Crisis.

[Camino LS6]

In 1990 the Lexus LS400 sold about 40k (IIRC) V8 equipped cars. Lexus probably will not reach that volume in 2006 with the LS430 + GS430 + the SC430.

Yes more individual models for these lux brands now offer a V8 as an option, but it is a small percentage of sales.

The fleet is evolving and I pull BOF trucks out of the equations as these truck based SUV become car like.  The market is already shifting as more crossovers are being offered by the OEM.  The new CAFE requirements for light trucks will also help this out a lot.

This may all be true, but it certainly doesn't add up to the V8 being dead. Regardless of volume, the V8 is being placed on an even higher pedestal than ever. It is aspirational, and appearing on more option lists rather than less. I remember the death of the V8 being predicted decades ago, which obviously did not occur. The results this time around will be the same.

Will the overall volume of v8 production decline? Perhaps, and perhaps not. Too many emerging variables are in the mix such as alternative fuels, DOD and other emerging technologies, and on the other side the rise of diesel and bio-diesel technologies along with the light truck CAFE standards. Either way, the v8 will remain - dominant or simply available, it will be around.

[evok]

This may all be true, but it certainly doesn't add up to the V8 being dead. Regardless of volume, the V8 is being placed on an even higher pedestal than ever. It is aspirational, and appearing on more option lists rather than less. I remember the death of the V8 being predicted decades ago, which obviously did not occur. The results this time around will be the same.

Will the overall volume of v8 production decline? Perhaps, and perhaps not. Too many emerging variables are in the mix such as alternative fuels, DOD and other emerging technologies, and on the other side the rise of diesel and bio-diesel technologies along with the light truck CAFE standards. Either way, the v8 will remain - dominant or simply available, it will be around.

In the not to distant future, the V8 might be relegated to a novelty status in the industry.

It is reaching the point where naturally aspirated V6s have 300+hp. I am finding less and less of a point of the V8 beyond that applications I mentioned above.

Before readers fly off the handle at what I just suggested. Step away from the computer and just think about what I did write.

[Camino LS6]

In the not to distant future, the V8 might be relegated to a novelty status in the industry.

It is reaching the point where naturally aspirated V6s have 300+hp. I am finding less and less of a point of the V8 beyond that applications I mentioned above.

Before readers fly off the handle at what I just suggested. Step away from the computer and just think about what I did write.

Read it.

Thought it over.

Don't agree.

Time will tell.

[PsychoBueller]

Read it.

Thought it over.

Don't agree.

Time will tell.

No V6 can ever or will ever sound like a V8. There is no replacement for the rumble or the feel that is SO RIGHT. I drive a 4 cyl car and a 6 cyl minivan, but every time I have a chance to drive my Dad's Magnum hemi or my Stap-dad's Escalade I do it for the sheer joy of the V8. My next car will have one, with DOD/MDS and I can live with the fuel economy as well.

[evok]

Read it.

Thought it over.

Don't agree.

Time will tell.

You might not agree but the V8 in passenger cars will be a novelty for the most part and used for marketing when available. That's it.

The truth is, right now it is just that and will only continue.

[BatmanGTO]

HP wars are reaching their peaks... at what is it now.... 1001 horses in the one concept? i forget which one.... but now it becomes the price war of getting the most HP for the buck. Think of the speed you get for a new ZO6. or even just what base engines are putting out these days. My VW came with 130 horses back in 99. There isnt a VW you can get aside from diesel with less than 200, and it costs about the same in today's market.

[balthazar]

Unfortunately, the consumer has been conditioned that everything "NEW!" is automatically better, to the point that yearly or every-other-year changes are neccesary to be 'competitive' (Few see those changes for what they are: moreso different than better). No manufacturer is going to stop at a 300-HP V-6 for more than a few years, it's too detrimental, perceptually and marketing-wise. The consumer is Pavlov's dog, waiting for the next kibble. The V-6 has physical limitations before it hits the Wall of Reliability and it is reaching them... the last 'out' being huge, vibration-prone, displacements.

Its' relatively easy to cordone off a rigid slice of the consumer market to prove a theory, but extrapolate that to the entire industry and it falls flat. "Death"? -No way. "Novelty"? The Prowler and SSR were novelty vehicles. The V-8 will not become a "novelty" in the foreseeable future. "Less"? -Now at least the terminology warrants discussion.

Perception rules all: more models with V-8s will equate with the 'reality' that they are gaining in popularity; few will bother to look at volume trends to aid in a purchase decision. The simple truth- regardless of the ability of the V-6, there will always be a considerable percentage of consumers that want a V-8. Not need; want. End of story.

Edited May 30, 2006 by balthazar

[evok]

The simple truth- regardless of the ability of the V-6, there will always be a considerable percentage of consumers that want a V-8. Not need; want. End of story.

Sure and that percentage is decreasing. They may want but they are not buying.

[Camino LS6]

Sure and that percentage is decreasing.  They may want but they are not buying.

I'm not so sure about that, I'd say that there are more cars with V8s now than even a few years ago with more in the pipeline. But, even if true, it certainly does not equate to the "death" of the v8. Perhaps it would be helpful if you were to put a timeline to this prediction of yours so we could put it in a more complete perspective. Do you see the extinction of the V8 coming in 5 years? Ten ?

Oh, and some of us are buying those v8s. I myself have purchased 4 new v8 powered GM products since 2001. In fact, every new vehicle that I have ever bought has been a V8. Car or truck, gas or diesel, all V8s and all from 1987 - 2004(purchase date).

[balthazar]

Sure and that percentage is decreasing.  They may want but they are not buying.

...more models with V-8s will equate with the 'reality' that they are gaining in popularity; few will bother to look at volume trends to aid in a purchase decision.

[greg_nate]

AND..............

if you want to add more fuel to this fire, go read my thread about GM's new

diesel developments down under, and what they plan for U.S. models.

Then consider this news item, that was just published in Edmunds!

Honda to launch diesel Odyssey & Acura MDX in US

There have been several rumors about new diesels coming from Honda recently, one being a V6 diesel for their larger vehicles. Now we get word that the Odyssey and MDX will get this engine by 2009. Not mentioned in this link, but has been rumored elsewhere on the Net is that the Ridgeline could also get this engine. I see these as very smart moves on Honda's part.

Snippet: ‘‘We think Honda’s light trucks, such as the Odyssey and the MDX, will be more fuel efficient with diesels,’’ Mr Fukui said adding, “We don’t have any plans to put hybrid systems in light trucks, such as the Odyssey and MDX in the US.’’ Mr Fukui said the four-cylinder engine can be installed in vehicles by 2009. Bloomberg

Diesel engines will use less fuel than hybrid systems for light trucks driven longer distances, Fukui said. Honda is developing a V6 diesel engine, mainly for the US market. If diesel engines in light trucks prove popular, the company may also use them in cars.

This is also interesting...

Snippet: Nissan Motor Co, Japan’s second-largest carmaker, is also considering diesel vehicles for the US market. The carmaker may put diesel engines in U.S. pickup trucks and sport-utility vehicles, chief executive officer Carlos Ghosn said in November.

PM me with the link to that thread please. I am interested. FWIW, I think Honda is on the right track with the new diesels, particularly in their trucks and SUVs. It just makes so much more sense than hybrid versions. I've read about Honda's new diesels too, and they tout very good numbers.

[greg_nate]

This may all be true, but it certainly doesn't add up to the V8 being dead. Regardless of volume, the V8 is being placed on an even higher pedestal than ever. It is aspirational, and appearing on more option lists rather than less. I remember the death of the V8 being predicted decades ago, which obviously did not occur. The results this time around will be the same.

Will the overall volume of v8 production decline? Perhaps, and perhaps not. Too many emerging variables are in the mix such as alternative fuels, DOD and other emerging technologies, and on the other side the rise of diesel and bio-diesel technologies along with the light truck CAFE standards. Either way, the v8 will remain - dominant or simply available, it will be around.

I don't think the V8 is dead. I just think it is in its final swan song.

Here's the main question that has to be answered: Beyond enthusiast demand, can another technology replace the need for a gasoline V8? Are there things out there that can provide the horsepower and torque that a V8 can? The answer to both of those questions is , "Yes, and they are coming quickly".

So what is an automaker to do with this scenario? What is a sensible choice, given the fact that gas isn't ever going to get cheaper? If an antomaker can build a fuel efficient 6 banger diesel V6 that meets all the requirements of a V8, then they are going to do it - which is where Honda seems to be going.

As little as 10 years ago, there was a job that only a gas V8 could do. That's not a true statement today.

[evok]

Sure and that percentage is decreasing.  They may want but they are not buying.

...more models with V-8s will equate with the 'reality' that they are gaining in popularity; few will bother to look at volume trends to aid in a purchase decision.

Your thoughts are unclear but I will address what I think you are trying to say.

Because an OEM may offer a V8, does not equate with an increase in market penetration of that powertrain offering.

Offering a V8 may be good marketing as there is a carryover appeal to the more mainstream models. But that does not equate to more demand for the V8 offering.

The objective of this discussion has little to do with the enthusiasts that want a V8 but to talk about the continued diminishing relevance of the V8 to the larger market because of the significant power improvements made in the V6. Enthusiasts have little significance on the larger market. For the most part, enthusiasts talk cars but do not purchase news ones or purchase ones they talk so passionatly about!

[evok]

I'm not so sure about that, I'd say that there are more cars with V8s now than even a few years ago with more in the pipeline.

I am sure. More models offering the V8 does not equate to more volume for the powertrain.

But, even if true, it certainly does not equate to the "death" of the v8. Perhaps it would be helpful if you were to put a timeline to this prediction of yours so we could put it in a more complete perspective. Do you see the extinction of the V8 coming in 5 years? Ten ?

Really, I think you need to read the body of what I wrote in the original post to this thread. I even reposted the relevant sections for you in a previous post. Read it because I have to assume you have not and only read the headline. And actually think about it before you start writing about it. It might make for more interesting discussion.

[finlandia]

Perception rules all: more models with V-8s will equate with the 'reality' that they are gaining in popularity; few will bother to look at volume trends to aid in a purchase decision. The simple truth- regardless of the ability of the V-6, there will always be a considerable percentage of consumers that want a V-8. Not need; want. End of story.

Yup, and American carmakers had better keep selling those engines for years to come. For so long as there's demand for them. It's just a checkbox on the option list in some ways. If a buyer wants the rumble, check the box. If not, don't. It's a free country. My wife would, I probably wouldn't unless there were other considerations.

So not so much a "death" as a "reduced to cult status" sort of thing, I think. I, for one, will be very sad if that faithful ol' GM pushrod V-8 ever disappears. Because it's a great engine that has gotten an unfair rap from the domestic motoring press over the years. I shook my head when Cadillac bowed to snotty customers who demanded a "high-feature" V-8 just because they thought the pushrod was too "primitive" for them.

Now, I'd like to see what could be done with a small-displacement V-8 today. Just for the pure engineering sake of it. Slap it in a lightweight car and go.

[redfox]

I will take a v8 over a v6 any day the v8 has more power and gets just about as good gas mileage as the v6 also they last longer.

[Sixty8panther]

Redfox:

Post some photos of your 1969 Camaro. It's by far the

best looking model year of all time, only the 2006

Concept is a close 2nd.

Balthazar makes a great point, how is a BMW 540 or a

MB E-class V8 a "niche" vehicle? it's not they're all over

the place. It's like a Camry of the yuppie towns around

here. Not to mention the DeVille and panther cars.

The longer this thread progresses the more people

are reaching for straws... I think the fact that even

HUGE gas guzzing SUVs with big V8s are doing well

means cars are absolutely only going to sell better and

better with V8s. I say Chrysler should make the HEMI

standard with the next gen. 300, make a smaller V6

version of the LX cars for the midsize market.

What red blooded American male has not dreamed of

owning a V8 powered car. The V8 is as American as

American Pie & Rock-N-Roll. If gas gets to like $7.00

a gallon like 20 years from now the displacement on

V8s will go back down btu the V8 in general is not

going anywhere!!!

Hey, wheah yoo goin'?

That's right... NO-wheah! [boondock Saints]

Edited May 30, 2006 by Sixty8panther

[Camino LS6]

I am sure.  More models offering the V8 does not equate to more volume for the powertrain.

Really, I think you need to read the body of what I wrote in the original post to this thread.  I even reposted the relevant sections for you in a previous post. Read it because I have to assume you have not and only read the headline.  And actually think about it before you start writing about it.  It might make for more interesting discussion.

Evok, I am a more than capable reader and I do understand your points, I just think that you are wrong in the short term at least. Also the notion that the V8 is dead is not supportable. I make no definitive claims about market penetration anywhere in my posts. Please cease to be so patronizing in your tone, it demeans both of us. You need to re-read my posts as you obviously have misinterpreted them.

[evok]

Evok, I am a more than capable reader and I do understand your points, I just think that you are wrong in the short term at least. Also the notion that the V8 is dead is not supportable. I make no definitive claims about market penetration anywhere in my posts. Please cease to be so patronizing in your tone, it demeans both of us. You need to re-read my posts as you obviously have misinterpreted them.

Because you do not read what I wrote, I will repost again:

In the not to distant future, the V8 might be relegated to a novelty status in the industry.

It is reaching the point where naturally aspirated V6s have 300+hp. I am finding less and less of a point of the V8 beyond that applications I mentioned above.

Before readers fly off the handle at what I just suggested. Step away from the computer and just think about what I did write.

Edited May 30, 2006 by evok

[evok]

Balthazar makes a great point, how is a BMW 540 or a

MB E-class V8 a "niche" vehicle? it's not they're all over

the place. It's like a Camry of the yuppie towns around

here. Not to mention the DeVille and panther cars.

V8 sales for the models you mentioned are small. 6 Cylinder sales are by far the significant majority of E and 5 Series sales.

[pow]

In the not to distant future, the V8 might be relegated to a novelty status in the industry.

It is reaching the point where naturally aspirated V6s have 300+hp. I am finding less and less of a point of the V8 beyond that applications I mentioned above.

Isn't that already the case? I can't think of a single V8 "non-niche" passenger car.

[evok]

Isn't that already the case? I can't think of a single V8 "non-niche" passenger car.

Yes - for the most part.

[Sixty8panther]

Evok:

No offense but I think you're really manipulating

definitions and twisting facts in your argument.

Most of us see the error in your logic and it is

actaully very sad to see someone preaching such

doom and gloom.

No car, product, feature or option ever sees a

completely flat sales figures. There are peaks &

valleys and in the end for all you or any of us

know the V8 may be more prominent in 20

years than EVER.

Like Balthazar said many brands are doubling or

quadroopling their V8n offerings.

Infiniti 1996

Q45: V8

Infiniti 2006

Q45: V8

M45: V8

QX56: V8

Lexus: 1996 models with V8s

LS400

SC400

LX400

Lexus: 2006 models with V8s

LS430

SC430

GS430

LX470

GX470

-----------

The M5 went from an I6 to a V8 and now has a V10

for God's sake... how can you possibly predict this

trend?

Not to mention that even Hyundai will most likely go

V8 with the next Tiburon and Honda/Acura is even

feeling pressure to make a V8. Honda is just plain

dumb though and they have some communist

anti-V8 agenda so who knows... maybe they'll hold

out on a V8 again.

Edited May 30, 2006 by Sixty8panther

[mightymouse]

Yes - for the most part.

What about Montes, or Impalas, or Crown Vics or 300s....

V-8s are sticking around. Smooth, efficient power is not going out of style!

I've had about enough of you and amazing crystal ball(s) !

Your just bummed out that your wife won't let you have one.

Edited May 30, 2006 by mightymouse

[pow]

What about Montes, or Impalas, or Crown Vics or 300s....

V-8s are sticking around. Smooth, efficient power is not going out of style!

I've had about enough of you and amazing crystal ball(s) !

Your just bummed out that your wife won't let you have one.

Monte and Impala "Super Sports" are niche vehicles, as is the 300C. Consumer consumption of Crown Vics is being replaced by the 500, which will soon offer a 265-hp V6.

[Sixty8panther]

If Ford "replaces" the Crown Vic with the 500 it will

be the biggest damn mistake they ever made. That's

the worst idea I've ever heard of in my life. I know

that it's been discussed before but I stil think it's an

empty threat.

[mightymouse]

Monte and Impala "Super Sports" are niche vehicles, as is the 300C. Consumer consumption of Crown Vics is being replaced by the 500, which will soon offer a 265-hp V6.

The case for niche selling is this: The manufacturer can shorten product life cycles to the point where it can keep a model going for only 18 to 30 months and still make money. If GM can make Kappa work, the optimistic talk goes, it will have a breakthrough car-building process that could stand the industry on its ear....

I know what I like, and never met a person that didn't like the sound of a V-8....

[balthazar]

Monte and Impala "Super Sports" are niche vehicles, as is the 300C.

You're joking, right? The Impala, 300 and MC are full-bore mainstream vehicles. The 'SS' and 'C' are option packages on mainstream vehicles, but that does not make them niche in the least. Clearly in those cases the V-8 is the prime motivator, but without a relatively expensive option/equipment/trim package ubitquitously hogtied to the V-8, it's take rate would unquestionably be higher. Traditionally, in the heyday of the V-8, it was bundled with nothing and was always affordable. It's always expensive today.

There are 2 sides to this issue. Some are focusing on volume alone, others are focusing on proliferation to determine future viability. 2 different sets of parameters. Of course, without industry-wide V-8 production totals over at least 10 years, no meaningful 'answer' can ever be reached here; it's just opinion head-butting opinion.

evok- you seem to think that anyone who doesn't agree with you hasn't read what you posted.....

[Robert Hall]

If Ford "replaces" the Crown Vic with the 500 it will

be the biggest damn mistake they ever made. That's

the worst idea I've ever heard of in my life. I know

that it's been discussed before but I stil think it's an

empty threat.

The Crown Vic at this point is largely just a fleet vehicle...I can see them keeping it around indefinitely for the police and taxi market. The Five Hundred is a better, far more modern car for consumer use..

Edited May 31, 2006 by moltar

[Sixty8panther]

I'd take a 20,000 mile 1998 Crown Vic over a brand new

Ford 500 and never look back. The 500 is a decent car if

you're trying to go "just a tad less boring than a Camry"

in yor purchase, it's a much better car than the Taurus it

replaced mostly due ot the fact that it's got a GM trans.

In any case the 500 will never be able to fill the C.V.s

shoes in terms of fleet /cop/taxi/full size duty.

Long live BOF cars, even if Ford is the only one making them!

[evok]

Evok:

No offense but I think you're really manipulating

definitions and twisting facts in your argument.

Most of us see the error in your logic and it is

actaully very sad to see someone preaching such

doom and gloom.

No car, product, feature or option ever sees a

completely flat sales figures. There are peaks &

valleys and in the end for all you or any of us

know the V8 may be more prominent in 20

years than EVER.

Like Balthazar said many brands are doubling or

quadroopling their V8n offerings.

Infiniti 1996

Q45: V8

Infiniti 2006

Q45: V8

M45: V8

QX56: V8

Lexus: 1996 models with V8s

LS400

SC400

LX400

Lexus: 2006 models with V8s

LS430

SC430

GS430

LX470

GX470

-----------

The M5 went from an I6 to a V8 and now has a V10

for God's sake... how can you possibly predict this

trend?

Not to mention that even Hyundai will most likely go

V8 with the next Tiburon and Honda/Acura is even

feeling pressure to make a V8. Honda is just plain

dumb though and they have some communist

anti-V8 agenda so who knows... maybe they'll hold

out on a V8 again.

There is a difference between models offering a V8 as a choice and total volume.

Case in point is Lexus. They sold more V8 powered cars in the early 1990's by volume than they do today.

Edited May 31, 2006 by evok

[Camino LS6]

OK, let's get some facts and figures here and leave the debate behind for a while.

I'm interested to know the following:

In 2003, how many V8s were produced for the US market? ( all V8s car and truck)

In 2003, how many cars offered a V8 as a standard or optional powerplant?

Then, I would like to know the answers to the same questions for the year 2005.

Can anyone provide accurate figures industry - wide? ( US market only)

Figures for other years would also be interesting.

I am most interested in the availability numbers, as that increases the number of candidates that I can consider for purchase since I don't intend to buy anything not powered by a V8.

[Robert Hall]

I'd take a 20,000 mile 1998 Crown Vic over a brand new

Ford 500 and never look back. The 500 is a decent car if

you're trying to go "just a tad less boring than a Camry"

in yor purchase, it's a much better car than the Taurus it

replaced mostly due ot the fact that it's got a GM trans.

In any case the 500 will never be able to fill the C.V.s

shoes in terms of fleet /cop/taxi/full size duty.

Long live BOF cars, even if Ford is the only one making them!

The CV is just so old and dated looking, small inside for it's size, and I definitely wouldn't want to drive something that looks like a taxi. The Five Hundred has a much nicer interior also...

That said, I would like to see Ford build a modern RWD V8 sedan for the US--something like Chrysler's LXes or GM's upcoming Zetas..

Edited May 31, 2006 by moltar

[Camino LS6]

The CV is just so old and dated looking, small inside for it's size, and I definitely wouldn't want to drive something that looks like a taxi. The Five Hundred has a much nicer interior also...

That said, I would like to see Ford build a modern RWD V8 sedan for the US--something like Chrysler's LXes or GM's upcoming Zetas..

Rumor has it that they are taking a hard look at the Aussie Falcon.

[BatmanGTO]

Monte and Impala "Super Sports" are niche vehicles, as is the 300C. Consumer consumption of Crown Vics is being replaced by the 500, which will soon offer a 265-hp V6.

well that might be true consumer wise.... but if they replace the CV with that how in the heck are the cops supposed to catch anyone? the CV with the Police interceptor package would kill the 500 in a race. They might be able to use it for winter squad cars with snow so they will have better traction... but thats about it.

[Mr.Krinkle]

i think the v8 is just about what its always been...still. the whole topic was basically just for the sake of discussion. the v8 isnt red dye #2 or asbestos.

its not killing anyone or damaging us in anyway. the v6's and souped up 4's are great for display purposes. if anyone ever drove them in a way remotely close enought o achieve their suggested performnce numbers theyd be seriously let down by the mpg and overall results. the ol' switcheroo nt going to fool anyone regarding the essence of what it is to have a v8 under the hood.

the v8 is the truest expression of american ingenuity. around the world it is admired for its most tangible and obvious distinctions. the sound, feel, and presence as it rumbles along.

bmw just only now decided a 6 isnt good enough for its m3...a car that has long ben a benchmark in its class. the v8 isnt going to go anywhere, not anytime soon anyway. it will in all probability exist as it does today. trucks, suvs, towing, hauling, kick ass cars--sports models, large passenger sedans and so on.

diesels are another story...the most serious threat to the v8 would be if toyota released some sort of press regarding how after many studies have concluded its so awful and has decided to never produce another one. then people may listen. but then again, given their drama lately with recalls i dont know if i can seriously believe thatd even be enough.

[Mr.Krinkle]

heres my prediction... 4 cyl will only be found in cheap econoboxes and smaller cars..they will only recieve recognition if a jumbo turbo is attached to it or it recieves 40 mpg.

v6's will pick up the slack after that.

the v8's will only be for anyone else that wants one. especially if they need to tow or haul or,... just haul ass.

v12's will always be around as long as you have the money.

[Drew Dowdell]

Monte and Impala "Super Sports" are niche vehicles, as is the 300C. Consumer consumption of Crown Vics is being replaced by the 500, which will soon offer a 265-hp V6.

and thereby hand the entire police/cab/livery market over to Chrysler.

What... you didn't think they'd all jump over to the W-bodies did you?

[Drew Dowdell]

The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.

[scotth3886]

I believe the HP wars are reaching their limits and peaks.  The V8 engine is slowly becoming archaic in the passenger vehicle market for that very reason.  Modern 4s and 6 have pushed vehicle performance to sports car territory of only a few years ago.

You can only go so fast to 60 mph or the ¼ mile. in real terms.  The buff magazines might split hairs over 0 -to-60 times, but the average consumer will not.

For that very reason, the V8 for passenger vehicles may soon be phased out because it no longer matters.

GM had already cancelled the V10 because they could do the same thing with the LSx V8 in the full sized utilities and pickups.  The V10 might have made headlines in the press and media but that would be about it.  How much longer until a V6 can do exactly what a V8 does as technology progresses further.

With power rating increasing across the board for passenger vehicles of all types and powertrain configurations, how much longer does the V8 have left beyond what a V12 application has today?

Beyond specialty applications and limited edition vehicles, I am finding less and less of purpose for the V8 even in the more or less main stream luxury market.

For some it could be argued that a Hybrid powertrain might be the image powertrain of the future.  That seems to be the approach Lexus is taking with their top of the line powertrain offerings.

In the not to distant future, the V8 might be relegated to a novelty status in the industry.

It is reaching the point where naturally aspirated V6s have 300+hp.  I am finding less and less of a point of the V8 beyond that applications I mentioned above.

Before readers fly off the handle at what I just suggested.  Step away from the computer and just think about what I did write.

Why do we need V8s? Here's why

http://www.magnaflow.com/04sound/domestic/srt8launch.htm

and

http://www.magnaflow.com/04sound/domestic/ctsvlaunch.htm

or

http://www.magnaflow.com/04sound/sportsound/rsxslaunch.htm

and

http://www.magnaflow.com/04sound/sportsound/civicSI.html

tell me which you'd rather listen to.

[Sixty8panther]

[Camino LS6]

Here's another question:

Can anyone name even one car in current production that has had its V8 option phased out?

[ZL-1]

the v8 is the truest expression of american ingenuity.  around the world it is admired for its most tangible and obvious distinctions.  the sound, feel, and presence as it rumbles along.

Let me quote this part to throw a question out there: Whether or not the V8 becomes a specialty application, should Cadillac develop a V12 or V16, or should they stick to the V8 layout?

Edited May 31, 2006 by ZL-1

[GEESIXER]

LETS NOT FORGET THAT PONTIAC SUPERCHARGED V6 WEIGHS MORE THAN THE ALUMINUM BLOCK OF THE GXP'S V8!!!! THEY ARE GETTING LIGHTER.

[samuel]

I believe the HP wars are reaching their limits and peaks.  The V8 engine is slowly becoming archaic in the passenger vehicle market for that very reason.  Modern 4s and 6 have pushed vehicle performance to sports car territory of only a few years ago.

You can only go so fast to 60 mph or the ¼ mile. in real terms.  The buff magazines might split hairs over 0 -to-60 times, but the average consumer will not.

For that very reason, the V8 for passenger vehicles may soon be phased out because it no longer matters.

GM had already cancelled the V10 because they could do the same thing with the LSx V8 in the full sized utilities and pickups.  The V10 might have made headlines in the press and media but that would be about it.  How much longer until a V6 can do exactly what a V8 does as technology progresses further.

With power rating increasing across the board for passenger vehicles of all types and powertrain configurations, how much longer does the V8 have left beyond what a V12 application has today?

Beyond specialty applications and limited edition vehicles, I am finding less and less of purpose for the V8 even in the more or less main stream luxury market.

For some it could be argued that a Hybrid powertrain might be the image powertrain of the future.  That seems to be the approach Lexus is taking with their top of the line powertrain offerings.

In the not to distant future, the V8 might be relegated to a novelty status in the industry.

It is reaching the point where naturally aspirated V6s have 300+hp.  I am finding less and less of a point of the V8 beyond that applications I mentioned above.

Before readers fly off the handle at what I just suggested.  Step away from the computer and just think about what I did write.

You are forgetting that for many, many, many buyers, a V8 is more than just raw numbers. It is about a sound and a feel that is unique. In short, the V8 is going nowhere.