Ford to renovate Detroit train station

[regfootball]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2018/06/11/train-station-announcement-detroit-corktown-ford-moroun/689879002/

 

“

It's an ambitious plan with no recent precedent. The building has sat empty for 30 years and is derelict. And the automotive technologies that Ford intends to test and develop has yet to find a market with consumers around the world.

Details are sparse. Executive Chairman Bill Ford Jr. and Ford leadership will talk about their plans for the blighted building June 19. Part of that event, billed as a celebration, will be open to the public.”

 

huge for them to take take on an old facility like this  this could become one of the premier historical renovation projects in America I would imagine  

 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by regfootball

[G. David Felt]

History is great and we learn from it, but I see little value in saving every old building. Society moves forward and you have to eventually say enough is enough and leave it in the pictures of history books. I really question what is gained by spending millions on renovating a building that has no use in today's business or personal society. I am sure better things can be done with the land than renovate it and try to make it some sort of tourist destination.?

[balthazar]

Building renovation is one of the ultimate recycling scenarios.
And buildings bettter still have uses or I'm buying stock in tent manufacturers.

Detroit is a fairly unique scenario (given it's scale), and 'image projects' are pertinent to spur further revitalization.
 

[frogger]

This could be a beautiful building, seems to be in really rough shape though.  It is going to take a tonne of money and effort to refurbish and make it energy efficient.

 

 

[G. David Felt]

46 minutes ago, frogger said:

This could be a beautiful building, seems to be in really rough shape though.  It is going to take a tonne of money and effort to refurbish and make it energy efficient.

That is my feeling too that while the building has some great classic lines, I question just how much it will cost to clean the site up, then bring it up to code and is it in an area that can actually drive business? Will it be apartments, retail, what? What is in the surrounding area that could benefit from this becoming an updated building?

The area seems to be a dead area and sometimes you have to make the tough choices to put it in the history books and clean up the land for new uses, parks, modern business building, etc.

[balthazar]

Packard complex is in "really rough" shape, The Michigan Depot, I believe, is externally complete, structurally sound, secured, and already has all new windows installed. The scale of it is going to take a lot of money, yes, but I don't believe it will based on condition alone.

I read the upper floors (I think it has 18) were never fully utilized/occupied, and that well may be the case again. Here in Jersey, the new commonality seems to be moving toward retail at street level & living space above. I always associated 'living above a store' with more of a 'financial uphill climb', if you will, but it nice enough, there's no problem with it, and there's also a level of self-sustinence, economically, with such an arrangement. In that Ford bought the property, it's unlikely to be getting into the rental game.

Just now, dfelt said:

modern business building, etc.

^ What does this mean? Make the outside all glass, because anyone can do just about any sort of commerce/business in any sort of building.

And sometimes, the 'anchor' starts an area's revitalization, not the other way around.

[G. David Felt]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ What does this mean? Make the outside all glass, because anyone can do just about any sort of commerce/business in any sort of building.

And sometimes, the 'anchor' starts an area's revitalization, not the other way around.

If they can revitalize the building as it is sound and keep the character as updating it to modern code and allowing folks to live above while shopping below and commute into their job. Great, sadly there are just as many old building that are in too poor of shape and do not justify spending the money to save.

Modern buildings tend to go two ways, one is the glass boring lazy way and others are incorporating style and architecture into the building. 

Here is an example of a modern new building in Seattle that is apartments, commercial office space and retail on the bottom 3 floors. I think it is a nice looking building.

Here is our Seattle City Library Building. Mostly glass but very unique in its style.

Then you have the New F5 Building that is done externally but they are building it out internally. F5 network company will have it as their new Headquarters when they move in next year in spring 2019. It is just ok looking to me.

Course then you have the new Amazon Headquarters building that is going up and very different next to the Bank of America Pedestal building.

While interesting in it's design, it is another glass building I think. I do like the Amazon park building they just finished here.

I believe Glass is such a popular option to allow maximum natural light in and to give people even in a small space the feeling that it is much bigger than it really is.

Found a current image of the train station with the new windows.

I can totally see this being a large apartment complex with retail on the ground floor and then the land around it as a park like area for the residents. I hope Ford lets us know soon what they are doing. Should be cool.

[G. David Felt]

Pictures show they have lots of brick / cement work to be done to get it back to its former glory.

[balthazar]

Ford has said it's going to make it their 'alternative propulsion' headquarters, so it seem unlikely it would involve private ownership/rental... but who knows? The project may necessitate such inclusion to make a business case for it.

No one is building grand edifice buildings anymore, always best to maintain past works when economically feasible. Detroit has lost so much architecturally, this one should be a keeper.

[ocnblu]

I love the idea of restoring old buildings while modernizing them invisibly, but maybe it would behoove Ford to simply set up a few pup tents to completely house their "alternative propulsion" department.  You know, match the investment to the market demand for silly things.

[ccap41]

This is an awesome move because old building are timeless. They have aged so well and this looks like it will be one of them. 

*worries about how efficient a building is*

**Shows all glass buildings**

??

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

This is an awesome move because old building are timeless. They have aged so well and this looks like it will be one of them. 

*worries about how efficient a building is*

**Shows all glass buildings**

??

Triple pane argon gas filled windows can be more efficient than the thick cement and bricks. Plus already built for earthquakes, modern electrical, plumbing, etc.

I get if a building is structurally sound to renovate it and move forward, but not everything that is tagged historical really is or needs to be saved. Everything wears out over time.

[ccap41]

Nothing will ever be built looking like this building again. Save what can be saved. Plus, they can make this building probably just as efficient as any other building when going through and redoing everything. And it'll look way more awesomer. 

Yeah, they should spend an absurd about of money to build a whole new building covered in glass, like everyone else. 

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Nothing will ever be built looking like this building again. Save what can be saved. Plus, they can make this building probably just as efficient as any other building when going through and redoing everything. And it'll look way more awesomer. 

Yeah, they should spend an absurd about of money to build a whole new building covered in glass, like everyone else. 

I get and understand your point and as Balthazar pointed out, it was already validated to be still structurally sound. That is the biggest point and makes it worth saving the building. Yet as I did post, not all buildings are just glass anymore as some are putting stone back into the buildings like the first one I posted.

Even then while all glass to allow maximum natural light into the building, that has not stopped them from developing unique buildings that are just plain boxes.

[ccap41]

All new buildings are built with more glass than this and zero stone like this. 

Can you imagine how good this front entry way will look once it's just cleaned up??? 

[balthazar]

26 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Yet as I did post, not all buildings are just glass anymore as some are putting stone back into the buildings like the first one I posted.

Do know what that specific building is, or more importantly, the cost of it? Not just construction, but including design/engineering & permitting? Do you think it would be even within 50 times of the cost to renovate the Michigan Depot (which is already standing)?

They built a new high school near me, a uber-complex footprint with a tremendously inefficient amount of external walls. Horrific waste of taxpayer money but "it's for the kids". Cost $185 million and it's only 2 stories.

Just like a Mustang GT350 is 'too expensive', there are also economic reasons to renovate rather than build from scratch. Detroit has very tangible fiscal reasoning to approach revitalization this way.

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

All new buildings are built with more glass than this and zero stone like this. 

Can you imagine how good this front entry way will look once it's just cleaned up??? 

It would look great restored..given all that he's done in downtown Detroit, surprised Dan Gilbert isn't in on this deal...

[G. David Felt]

Interesting, so it cost $4 million to replace the windows and they are just single pane, but was done to appease the City of Detroit due to all the broken glass and how it looked. According to this story / interview with the past owners, renovation would be a minimum of $100 million and could be up to $200 million to get it complete.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170714/news/633851/redevelopment-of-detroit-train-station-a-marathon

Great set of pictures of the place here, 42 to be exact.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/business/michigan/2015/08/13/train-detroit-moroun-depot-michigan-central-bridge/31633393/

Cool Info on the wiki page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Central_Station

[ccap41]

23 hours ago, dfelt said:

Here is an example of a modern new building in Seattle that is apartments, commercial office space and retail on the bottom 3 floors. I think it is a nice looking building.

What's the name of this building? I can't seem to find it. 

[G. David Felt]

Interesting that while it was used till 1988 when Amtrak stopped service to Detroit, the upper levels that were supposed to be business office space never really got used and sat empty as the train station was pushed into service due to the old station burning down in 1913. Interesting history.

[balthazar]

^ I posted that bit yesterday. It is interesting, but not uncommon- 100% occupancy is often tough to achieve.

RE '$100-200M', you couldn't come close to building something like the Depot for that money. Even a modern 500K SF equivalent. So that's money saved.

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

What's the name of this building? I can't seem to find it. 

Washington Mutual Building, I love the design of this building. 55 stories tall, 1.09 million square feet of mixed use space. Was voted one of the 3 best Post-Modernist designs in North America.

[G. David Felt]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ I posted that bit yesterday. It is interesting, but not uncommon- 100% occupancy is often tough to achieve.

RE '$100-200M', you couldn't come close to building something like the Depot for that money. Even a modern 500K SF equivalent. So that's money saved.

F5 new HQ 28 story building cost $450 Million. It is interesting that they went with pyramid shapes that project out so that it is not just another rectangle tower.

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

F5 new HQ 28 story building cost $450 Million. It is interesting that they went with pyramid shapes that project out so that it is not just another rectangle tower.

That would be a neat building to work in...wonder what their cubicles look like...

[G. David Felt]

Cool story is how Amazon is using the Heat from their Downtown datacenter to heat their office buildings.

https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2014/09/heating-a-skyscraper-with-a-data-center-amazons.html

2 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

That would be a neat building to work in...wonder what their cubicles look like...

They are planning on having a public Grand Opening Open House next Spring. I am planning on checking it out as I agree should be an interesting building to see.

[G. David Felt]

http://www.rainiersquare.com/project/

The New Rainier Square project is a $600 million 60 floor mixed use building which Amazon will occupy the business space, top section is Apartments and retail and hotel on the lower first few floors.

[ccap41]

22 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Washington Mutual Building, I love the design of this building. 55 stories tall, 1.09 million square feet of mixed use space. Was voted one of the 3 best Post-Modernist designs in North America.

I had to look it up and it was built from 1985-1988. It also sold for $480M in 2012. Edit: Wrong Washington Mutual building sold for $480M in 2012

While an attractive building it is nowhere near as cool as the era of buildings the one Ford just bought. The design of stone/marble is so much more elegant and beautiful than anything modern can touch.

Yes, modern stuff is "cool" but old stuff is beautiful. 

Edited June 13, 2018 by ccap41

[balthazar]

That's my point anyway- a mixture of both. Save the grand old buildings where feasible but of course also build new. WA Mutual bldg is absolutely a very nice design (but very expensive).

[G. David Felt]

Really cool update, seems the Detroit station will become the hub for all things autonomous driving R&D and other sites have been updated. Good Read here:

http://www.thedrive.com/news/21621/ford-reveals-plans-for-detroits-corktown-campus-and-michigan-central-station