gas ev comparison Gas / EV Stations Comparison, Stop Comparing

[G. David Felt]

Gas / EV Stations Comparison, Stop Comparing

I was out looking at my normal alternative energy sites when I came across this story by Clean Technica about comparing gas stations to ev stations and how this needs to stop. As the story states, there is myths, misinformation, misleading concepts on all sides of the conversation when it comes to EV Auto's.

First fact is that EV's make up .29% of the market compared to petro auto and with that small but significant piece of info the author states the 6 reasons that straight up comparison of the gas to ev stations is just idiotic.

1. Current EV market is tiny: Why? 270 million petro auto compared to 794,000 EV auto's. This based on gas stations (1,200,000 pumps) gives a ratio of 225 auto's per pump compared to the the 48,472 public EV individual charging stations which gives 16 EVs to 1 charging station. So 14 times more charging stations per EV auto than gas pumps per petro auto.
2. Residential charging, this is where the significant percentage of charging will occur: Assuming 75% of EV owners will charge at home, we add another 595,500 charging stations to the US total for a rough 644,500 charging stations. This gives EVs a charging station ratio of 1.23 to 1.
3. Market alignment: Author clearly states that EV adoption rates vary widely with California seeing 5% of new auto sales in EV compared to .12% in North Dakota. Needed EV charging station needs should reflect regional penetration.
4. Charging is different than refueling: Gas fueling is a 10 min task on average and so fuel, bathroom, get a snack or drink and leave. EV charging is a 30 min to 10hr task and as such should be based on doing other tasks while charging such as shopping, seeing a movie, overnight at a resort, etc. Future XFC chargers will change this to be more like petro fueling but right now a different mind set of change is needed.
5. The Future: Current average range is 115 miles for BEVs, estimate is 290 miles by 2022. With solid state batteries, 500 miles by 2027 to 2030. With longer range batteries, people plugging in at home means fewer charge ups out and about except when on road trips. You CAN NOT have a Petro pump at your home, but you can EV.
6. Stations versus pumps versus stations: The author puts in a valid statement of terminology errors by the industry that confuses end users by misaligning stations with charging versus pumps. He suggests Charging stations rather than charging pumps or just stations.

The author clearly acknowledges that the world and especially the US needs more charging centers covering everything from inner city to suburban to remote roads and small town America to cover EVs in the way gas stations are spread out for petro pumping. He states rightfully so that this is an Apple to Orange comparison and needs to stop.

Check out the story yourself for more details and sound off on what you think!

Clean Technica Story

[ykX]

I agree, most charging will occur at people's homes, especially when the EVs will have longer ranges with better batteries.

This will work well for suburbs but I am not sure how that will work for people living in the cities.  I have lived in NYC and unless there will be electric charging station every 30ft on a sidewalks EVs are not happening for people living in the big cities.  As of right now at least 60% of US population lives in big cities.  Europe is in even worse situation.  Whoever saw where and how people park in cities like Rome, Paris etc. will understand.

[G. David Felt]

9 minutes ago, ykX said:

I agree, most charging will occur at people's homes, especially when the EVs will have longer ranges with better batteries.

This will work well for suburbs but I am not sure how that will work for people living in the cities.  I have lived in NYC and unless there will be electric charging station every 30ft on a sidewalks EVs are not happening for people living in the big cities.  As of right now at least 60% of US population lives in big cities.  Europe is in even worse situation.  Whoever saw where and how people park in cities like Rome, Paris etc. will understand.

This I can understand and I think will be addressed by the wireless movement as Nissan, BMW and even GM auto's can use wireless charging. Nissan of course has their proprietary standard compared to BMW and GM who is working with the charging committee for an industry wide standard.

I think the future will be to have wireless charging in the parking areas and via smartphone you can then pay for your charging as your auto sits. That is how I see the dense cities in the future.

Course here on the west coast, Washington, Oregon and California require Apartments and businesses to offer charging stations with a maximum cost of $5 for 30 min of level 2 or 220V charging. So in most cases you can get 80% of your battery filled in that time at a cheap electrical rate.

[ccap41]

47 minutes ago, dfelt said:

So 14 times more charging stations per EV auto than gas pumps per petro auto

That is such a stupid way to put that. 

 

48 minutes ago, dfelt said:

EV charging is a 30 min to 10hr task and as such should be based on doing other tasks while charging such as shopping, seeing a movie, overnight at a resort, etc.

That's also why they're so inconvenient. If you actually need to charge away from home, it sounds like a huge pain in the ass. 

31 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Course here on the west coast, Washington, Oregon and California require Apartments and businesses to offer charging stations with a maximum cost of $5 for 30 min of level 2 or 220V charging. So in most cases you can get 80% of your battery filled in that time at a cheap electrical rate.

What kind of realistic range is 30 minutes of level 2 charging getting you? 

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That is such a stupid way to put that. 

 

That's also why they're so inconvenient. If you actually need to charge away from home, it sounds like a huge pain in the ass. 

How is it stupid to compare the number of pumps to Petro auto and EV charging stations to EV auto's?

Since you do not use any charging app and probably have not downloaded one to your smartphone you have not seen how easy it is to find a charging station. Much easier than you think and more convenient than many realize.

As the story clearly states, EV auto's is a CHANGE IN MINDSET / THINKING of how you fuel an EV Auto compared to petro auto thinking.

[ccap41]

Yes, I most certainly have looked up charging stations and they're ridiculously inconvenient still. 

My town, there's one at a public area that I don't just go hang out at and the other one on the map is pointing to a roundabout(?).. there isn't one there.

Next places I don't go to hang out just got the heck of it are banks, city halls, movie theater, or a parking lot that is away from places I would be shopping at anyway. 

Change in mindset is different than inconveniencing us. 

15 minutes ago, dfelt said:

How is it stupid to compare the number of pumps to Petro auto and EV charging stations to EV auto's?

i just think it is worded like a political news broadcast where they're making it sound way better and nicer than it really is for their personal agenda, making EVs sound better than they are. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by ccap41

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Change in mindset is different than inconveniencing us. 

How is driving half a mile or more to a gas station and back to your house or to you chosen place of shopping not also inconvenient? If there is a charging spot 3 to 4 blocks away from your shopping place, plugging in at cheaper electric rates and then getting some fresh air and walking a few blocks to get your shopping done I do not see as a big deal.

Why not ask your favorite store when they plan to install customer charging stations?

All it takes is proactive action from people to change things and charging at home is way easier than running out late at night to fill up for gas before you go to bed so you have a full tank in the morning. 

After all, you're just plugging it into your house electrical grid and charging up the tank with electrons.

[Robert Hall]

I looked up on Plug Share, most in NE Ohio seem to be at car dealers w/ limited hours, some at hotels.  One at a Dunkin Donuts near me.   Still, pretty inconvenient in general compared to the ubiquity of gas stations.  I'm sure it will be better in 10-15 years.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[ccap41]

Because I don't have to sit at said charging station for 30 minutes to finish my days' worth of driving. AND they're also mixed in between shopping areas so you don't have to go out of your way and if you did have to, you could leave your vehicle there to charge while shopping around. 

The only times it isn't inconvenient is charging at home, which in all honesty, would be the majority of charging anyway. That comes back to just wanting a realistic near-300 mile range ALL year, not just the month in the spring and month in the fall where it isn't freezing or 95 degrees. 

[G. David Felt]

@ccap41 I think we are disconnecting my friend. You DO NOT have to sit at the charging station. Plug in, let it charge and leave to go do your shopping.

That is the mindset that I see needing to change as you are not alone in people thinking they have to sit at the charger and wait.

Hope we get the bigger battery packs sooner for you than later and that your local city steps up to adding in more charging locations.

It would be interesting for you to inquire about the cities plans to add EV Charging stations for 2018 and see what they say.

Will be insightful and might even be surprising.  

[Robert Hall]

3 minutes ago, dfelt said:

@ccap41 I think we are disconnecting my friend. You DO NOT have to sit at the charging station. Plug in, let it charge and leave to go do your shopping. 

Quaint....thing is, most of my shopping is on Amazon and other online retailers, so content comes to me, rather than going to a mall or big box store like it's 1995.... the charge at home option seems most viable for me were I to go down the EV path eventually.. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Quaint....thing is, most of my shopping is on Amazon and other online retailers, so content comes to me, rather than going to a mall or big box store like it's 1995.... the charge at home option seems most viable for me were I to go down the EV path eventually.. 

I totally get that, as an online shopper, your house is your store in a virtual sense.

I believe that is where @ccap41 and I are disconnected. Many people seem to be under the impression that you have to sit and wait while your auto charges versus plug in and walk away.

This is the part of the mindset change that EVs pushes onto people. A different way to fuel an auto compared to traditional petro.

I also think this is what the story above is trying to communicate that EV auto charging is different than Petro Auto fueling.

[ccap41]

No sht you don't have to sit there and wait.

But, as i pointed out, they aren't located near shopping centers or places that are remotely convenient so sitting there is all there is to do. 

Regardless of them getting bigger a plug-in hybrid is the sweet spot for me. 

Apparently my town added 1 which is 1 more than a year ago. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by ccap41

[Robert Hall]

8 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I totally get that, as an online shopper, your house is your store in a virtual sense.

I believe that is where @ccap41 and I are disconnected. Many people seem to be under the impression that you have to sit and wait while your auto charges versus plug in and walk away.

This is the part of the mindset change that EVs pushes onto people. A different way to fuel an auto compared to traditional petro.

I also think this is what the story above is trying to communicate that EV auto charging is different than Petro Auto fueling.

The problem I see is when you need to fill up while traveling or otherwise away from home or your usual area.   Finding a charging station, and recharging in a reasonable amount of time.   

Edited May 10, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

One thing that is frequently ignored is that charging is different than filling up.... it requires a different mentality.

Most people fill up their car one of two ways... either they fill the tank, or they fill to a specific dollar amount because that is all their budget allows.   They rarely, if ever, fill up with gas just enough to get them to the next planned filling station.

In an EV, you don't have to, and indeed should not fill up when you're out and about.  The reason being that going from zero to full every time shortens the life of your battery.  Secondly, if you're using a pay charging station, the price per kWh is substantially higher than charging at home.  Third, if you don't need 300 miles of range to get to your next stop with a charger, what are you doing sitting around waiting till you have 300 miles of range?  If you're 25 miles from home, put it on the charger long enough to get you to 50 miles of range (that's 15 minutes if you're at dead zero in a Bolt and at a DC fast charger)  If you've got 12 miles of range left and you need to go 25 and want to get there quickly, putting the Bolt on a DC fast charger for 5 minutes will get you home.  

You do not have to hang around for an hour an a half to get the full range back.  Just get what will get you to your next planned stop.

[G. David Felt]

1 minute ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

The problem I see is when you need to fill up while traveling or otherwise away from home or your usual area.   Finding a charging station, and recharging in a reasonable amount of time.   

I can understand that for everyone and while the apps are good at showing you options, less populated areas means you need to plan which I can understand is inconvenient for some people compared to others.

Yup bigger battery packs and as charging stations get installed it will get better.

Thank you @ccap41 and @Cubical-aka-Moltar for an outstanding discussion.

[Drew Dowdell]

And honestly, now that I'm older, I can't go more than 2 hours behind the wheel without stopping to pee.  I'm sure part of it is the sheer amount of Starbucks Earl Gray I consume on a trip... but stil.  Once most rest stops and starbucks have charging stations, it won't be an issue... just waiting in line for my Venti Earl Gray would get me another 700 miles of range. 

[Drew Dowdell]

57 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

And honestly, now that I'm older, I can't go more than 2 hours behind the wheel without stopping to pee.  I'm sure part of it is the sheer amount of Starbucks Earl Gray I consume on a trip... but stil.  Once most rest stops and starbucks have charging stations, it won't be an issue... just waiting in line for my Venti Earl Gray would get me another 700 miles of range. 

ME

 

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

And honestly, now that I'm older, I can't go more than 2 hours behind the wheel without stopping to pee.  I'm sure part of it is the sheer amount of Starbucks Earl Gray I consume on a trip... but stil.  Once most rest stops and starbucks have charging stations, it won't be an issue... just waiting in line for my Venti Earl Gray would get me another 700 miles of range. 

I only go to Starbucks that have a drive thru.. though on my insane cross country drive last year, I fueled up on McDonalds or Dunkin Donuts coffee and 5-hr energy shots. 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I only go to Starbucks that have a drive thru.. though on my insane cross country drive last year, I fueled up on McDonalds or Dunkin Donuts coffee and 5-hr energy shots. 

Business Costco for a case of Energy drinks and then I am good for 18hrs behind the wheel!  

[Robert Hall]

Just now, dfelt said:

Business Costco for a case of Energy drinks and then I am good for 18hrs behind the wheel!  

LoL...I did about 50 hrs behind the wheel...2099 miles.  (I did stop for catnaps, bathroom breaks for me and the critters, etc). 

[Drew Dowdell]

2 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

LoL...I did about 50 hrs behind the wheel...2099 miles.  (I did stop for catnaps, bathroom breaks for me and the critters, etc). 

I did 19 hours after working an 8 hour day, no naps.. just starbucks and 5 hour energy.  I stayed up another 12 hours after I arrived out of necessity.

I was incoherent by the end of that.... not that any of you would be able to tell the difference. 

[Robert Hall]

Yeah, that was a one time only trip..had to get 6 dogs from Phoenix to Cleveland.   Any future road trips I take will be 7-8 hrs per day at most--spend the night in hotels, then drive again the next day--leisurely.  I have a couple trips planned this year--the Florida Keys and Denver, but those will be fly in and rent a car trips.

 I really want to do a coast-to-coast drive for fun someday...I've done partial trips, but never a full coast-to-coast.  Boston to Seattle via I-90 sounds the most interesting to me.. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[G. David Felt]

14 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I did 19 hours after working an 8 hour day, no naps.. just starbucks and 5 hour energy.  I stayed up another 12 hours after I arrived out of necessity.

I was incoherent by the end of that.... not that any of you would be able to tell the difference. 

Would have been awesome to play trivial pursuit with you then!   

[Robert Hall]

I arrived home in Ohio at like 1am on a Tuesday morning after leaving Az at 7pm on  Saturday night.   After getting the dogs in the house and unloading a little bit, I passed out...slept until noon on Wednesday.   Ordered a pizza for lunch, went back to sleep.   Really wasn't functional until Thursday that week...almost a year ago. 2017 was a crazy year for me with the move and everything related to it. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[ocnblu]

Well I am going to continue to compare and I am more than confident that petroleum fueled vehicles will remain infinitely more practical than electrics for many many decades./THINK CLEARLY

[G. David Felt]

30 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Well I am going to continue to compare and I am more than confident that petroleum fueled vehicles will remain infinitely more practical than electrics for many many decades./THINK CLEARLY

 Your not thinking clearly as EVs are more practical, less maintenance over a petro auto. That has already been shown and Curtis electric trucks from 1912 have proven that point working 60 years before being replaced. EV Motors last with significantly less maintenance.

[Drew Dowdell]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Well I am going to continue to compare and I am more than confident that petroleum fueled vehicles will remain infinitely more practical than electrics for many many decades./THINK CLEARLY

The only way you are correct is taking into account the charging network.  As that starts to reach critical mass, I think we'll see a yuuge shift towards EVs. 

[ocnblu]

8 hours ago, dfelt said:

 Your not thinking clearly as EVs are more practical, less maintenance over a petro auto. That has already been shown and Curtis electric trucks from 1912 have proven that point working 60 years before being replaced. EV Motors last with significantly less maintenance.

*You're

I keep checking the Member's Rides section.  No change there yet.  Please post pics soon.

Plus... anxiety over a lack of chargers cannot be separated from range anxiety.  It is lack of range, and unpredictable range, that causes the need for easy access to chargers.

Edited May 11, 2018 by ocnblu

[G. David Felt]

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

*You're

I keep checking the Member's Rides section.  No change there yet.  Please post pics soon.

Plus... anxiety over a lack of chargers cannot be separated from range anxiety.  It is lack of range, and unpredictable range, that causes the need for easy access to chargers.

100ft electric cord does wonders for plugging in anywhere!  

[Robert Hall]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

100ft electric cord does wonders for plugging in anywhere!  

I would think someone could set up their own mobile charging station for themselves...a Honda or Onan generator that you could tow behind your electric car on a small trailer (or in the bed of a future EV pickup) and run it to charge on the fly...;)

[ccap41]

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I keep checking the Member's Rides section.  No change there yet.  Please post pics soon.

I truly believe there will be an excuse why not for the next 10-15 years.. 

'There's just none that I want.' 

'None fill my needs.'

Apparently the Bolt does everything PERFECTLY..??‍♂️

12 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I would think someone could set up their own mobile charging station for themselves...a Honda or Onan generator that you could tow behind your electric car on a small trailer (or in the bed of a future EV pickup) and run it to charge on the fly...;)

I think they have that pre-packaged for you already.

Edited May 11, 2018 by ccap41

[Drew Dowdell]

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

*You're

I keep checking the Member's Rides section.  No change there yet.  Please post pics soon.

Plus... anxiety over a lack of chargers cannot be separated from range anxiety.  It is lack of range, and unpredictable range, that causes the need for easy access to chargers.

Remember, @dfelt is so tall he cannot fit in anything that doesn't have a Greyhound painted on the side of it.

Range anxiety and charger density are indeed two separate issues.  How do I know?  Back when I was trying to talk people into Jetta TDIs, the reply was always "But where do you buy diesel?"... after I  at them a few minutes.... I would say.  "Do you think you could find a station that sells diesel somewhere between here and Philly?  Because you could drive to Philly and back on a single tank of diesel."  The real answer of course is that most GetGos and Sheetz and Sunocos... our biggest chains in the area, sell diesel. They just never bothered to look.

All of that F.U.D. about fueling locations, but range definitely isn't an issue on a Jetta/Passat/Beetle TDI.

I do understand range anxiety on an EV with a 150 mile max... but 250 or better like the Bolt or Teslas?  Na, doesn't worry me. 

Edit: That person did end up buying a Jetta TDI and loved it so much, they intended to keep it till the very last day it was eligible for the VW buyback.  They racked up huge miles on the car, so the buyback was worth it even though they loved the car so much. I don't know what their intended replacement was. 

[ccap41]

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Remember, @dfelt is so tall he cannot fit in anything that doesn't have a Greyhound painted on the side of it.

Remember, he's also said the Bolt is extremely roomy   

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Back when I was trying to talk people into Jetta TDIs, the reply was always "But where do you buy diesel?"

Didn't diesel pumps have to change their nozzle for non-commercial vehicles? Do you know when this was? Weren't they huge to pump fuel at an incredible rate but they were too big for "regular" vehicles? 

[G. David Felt]

49 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I truly believe there will be an excuse why not for the next 10-15 years.. 

'There's just none that I want.' 

'None fill my needs.'

Apparently the Bolt does everything PERFECTLY..??‍♂️

I think they have that pre-packaged for you already.

Yup, the VOLT is prepackaged, but I guess you could have a Honda Generator in your trunk for the pure EV auto.

In regards to an excuse from me over why in 10 to 15 years an EV does not show up will not be coming. The wife is already looking at the Jag E-Pace and once the dealership gets one in stock it could become our first NON-GM auto.

I would say in the next 18 to 24 months, a Trigger will be pulled if not sooner.

I honestly am really hoping Cadillac would have shown us an EV concept CUV at NY. I Honestly am very disappointed in them not doing this.

36 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Remember, @dfelt is so tall he cannot fit in anything that doesn't have a Greyhound painted on the side of it.

Yup, a Greyhound EV would be cool and would fit me very comfy!  

35 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Remember, he's also said the Bolt is extremely roomy   

Yup, it is roomy and I do fit in there, but then like Drew, I have a spouse that I also need to keep happy. Happy Wife, Happy Life. The dash was a deal killer. When the wife loves an auto, I can buy and that is important to me, Less headaches for those that have a spouse or partner and like to keep things relaxed.  

[Drew Dowdell]

41 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Remember, he's also said the Bolt is extremely roomy   

Didn't diesel pumps have to change their nozzle for non-commercial vehicles? Do you know when this was? Weren't they huge to pump fuel at an incredible rate but they were too big for "regular" vehicles? 

No idea. If it did happen, it was decades ago. I got into cars in the first place when I was 3 and I was fascinated with my grandmothers 78 Olds diesel....it was way cooler than my other grandmother's 79 Rabbit diesel.

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

No idea. If it did happen, it was decades ago. I got into cars in the first place when I was 3 and I was fascinated with my grandmothers 78 Olds diesel....it was way cooler than my other grandmother's 79 Rabbit diesel.

I remember when my Dad got the diesel Escort in '84 we used to go to the local truck stop to get fuel.  In the Florida Keys diesel was sold at regular stations, but was harder to find in Podunk, Ohio...

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Didn't diesel pumps have to change their nozzle for non-commercial vehicles? Do you know when this was? Weren't they huge to pump fuel at an incredible rate but they were too big for "regular" vehicles? 

@Drew Dowdell So I was also interested as I remember the Leaded pumps would not fit into the unleaded car gas tanks of the early 80's. Found out in the 90's EPA required changes but a 20 year time frame to make it happen to have Class 8 Commercial Truck pumps with larger nozzle and then a smaller nozzle for passenger cars. Found on a forum that Audi sold up to 2012 a kit that had gloves and a nozzle adapter that would allow the commercial pumps to fill a regular car. Ford also sold a kit like this.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=222514&page=2

Seems even in 2012 many threads on the different size pump nozzles that make fueling for diesel auto's hard. 

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-614721.html

Seems you do need to pay attention for auto diesel pumps versus commercial diesel pumps in the mid west and east coast especially.

 

[Robert Hall]

Speaking of diesel pumps, the thing I remember in the West is gas stations had diesel w/ green nozzle handles to make them distinctly different from gas nozzles..it seems odd in  in Ohio to see the BP gas stations having green nozzle handles for unleaded...

[G. David Felt]

17 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Speaking of diesel pumps, the thing I remember in the West is gas stations had diesel w/ green nozzle handles to make them distinctly different from gas nozzles..it seems odd in  in Ohio to see the BP gas stations having green nozzle handles for unleaded...

I would agree, one would think the industry would have standardized across North America on a color and sizing nozzle for the various types of fuel but sadly no guidance from the Feds, this is a state thing and the west coast has all followed California in this regards.

Course some things are just crazy like the new CA Law that says cancer warnings have to be on coffee now due to some idiot tree huggers. Yes we might as well label everything a cause of cancer. 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

Still, the point remains that these days diesel is plentiful enough to find that VW, GM, Ford, Ram, BMW, Benz, Audi, Porsche, can all sell a not insignificant number of diesel vehicles....

.....well maybe not VW so much anymore, but that's another story. 

[ocnblu]

11 hours ago, dfelt said:

100ft electric cord does wonders for plugging in anywhere!  

Can you plug it in at a gas pump?

Edited May 12, 2018 by ocnblu

[G. David Felt]

7 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Can you plug it in at a gas pump?

Sure, I have noticed 110 outlets all around Gas Pump locations! 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Can you plug it in at a gas pump?

Shell oil now owns more charging stations than gas stations globally. 

[G. David Felt]

What Shell is doing Rocks  

[ocnblu]

Too bad they go unused due to lack of interest 

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Too bad they go unused due to lack of interest 

Actually not, Europe is far ahead of the US in moving forward with EV auto sales. Only China is ahead of Europe. Check out these interesting statistics:

http://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehicle-volumes/

Here are the Q1 results for 2018 in Europe. The numbers show some countries have had high double and triple digit sales increases of EVs.

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2018-q1-europe-electric-and-hybrid-car-sales-per-eu-and-efta-country/

Here the sales numbers are very noticable.

The US is the stuck in the past head in the sand country. Time to Dump Standard and Join the World in all things Metric. Time to dump Daylight Savings time like the rest of the world has done. Time to dump old baby boomer mentality and move forward into the 21st century.

[ocnblu]

Sooooo... you got your Bolt?

[Drew Dowdell]

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Too bad they go unused due to lack of interest 

Hold on to your buggy whips. Smart companies build for the future, not the past. 

[Drew Dowdell]

28 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Sooooo... you got your Bolt?

Again, someone can want an EV without buying one simply because one that suits his needs isn't on the market.  I like everything about the powertrain of the Bolt. I do not like its size, shape, or interior.  I wouldn't buy it for myself even if it was gasoline powered and $25k cheaper.   I would buy a CT6 Plug-in, but I don't have that kinda cash laying around.  I am also interested in the Volt, but Albert decided it was too small since we're already wanting to upsize from the Encore. If we had a different life scenario, I'd love to find him a low mileage ELR and I would get something else bigger for the trips we take.

For those of us with spouses @ocnblu, keeping a non-car-fanatic spouse happy is probably the biggest challenge of all in car buying.  So let him go about buying a Bolt... if his wife doesn't like it, it's not going to happen. I'm sure it frustrates him just the same as the limitations imposed on me frustrate me.