GM vs Toyota

[andy82471]

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmvstoyota/

I found this interesting article in the NPR website. The data gives a pretty good idea as to how each company is doing financially and what the production numbers are for each company.

[I hope GMRULES again]

Nice find.

[evok]

Once GM eliminates the remaining 30,000 + production jobs, their workers/car should be aligned with the same efficiency as Toyota in NA. Based upon 2005 data, Toyota is about 75 workers/car.

GM:

White collar: 36,000

Production: 106,000

Retirees: 460,000

Toyota:

White collar: 17,000

Production: 21,000

Retirees: 1,600

[CaddyXLR-V]

Once GM eliminates the remaining 30,000 + production jobs, their workers/car should be aligned with the same efficiency as Toyota in NA.  Based upon 2005 data, Toyota is about 75 workers/car.

GM:

White collar: 36,000

Production: 106,000

Retirees: 460,000

Toyota:

White collar: 17,000

Production: 21,000

Retirees: 1,600

Then GM will have almost 5 times more retirees than workers. Imagine if GM had no retirees and could use all that money on developing cars. GM basically just has to last until they start dying off, how long would that take?

[ZL-1]

I'm shocked by the difference in the Production Time per Vehicle data.

[VenSeattle]

I'm shocked by the difference in the Production Time per Vehicle data.

You shouldn't be. Toyota excludes poor performing plants from the Harbour Report, so the Production Time data is incomplete on Toyota's side. Nissan does the same thing.

[ellives]

Too long.

Then GM will have almost 5 times more retirees than workers. Imagine if GM had no retirees and could use all that money on developing cars. GM basically just has to last until they start dying off, how long would that take?

[ellives]

So what you're saying is Toyota and Nissan lie. Big surpise.

The shocking numbers are those workforce numbers. Even if they jettisoned the total retiree count, they'd still have 100K more employees in their workforce than Toyota is showing.

How do they compete at all with those numbers?

You shouldn't be. Toyota excludes poor performing plants from the Harbour Report, so the Production Time data is incomplete on Toyota's side. Nissan does the same thing.

[VenSeattle]

So what you're saying is Toyota and Nissan lie. Big surpise.

The shocking numbers are those workforce numbers. Even if they jettisoned the total retiree count, they'd still have 100K more employees in their workforce than Toyota is showing.

How do they compete at all with those numbers?

According to the 2005 Harbour Report Press Release:

Nissan's Mexico Operations & Canton, MS Plant did not participate.

Honda's Alliston #1, Alabama, & Mexico plants did not participate.

Toyota's Princeton, IN Plant and Cambridge, ON South Plant did not participate.

GM fully participates in the Harbour Report.

[Ravenfreak13]

At least GM is turning around and maybe the numbers will be better soon.

[evok]

According to the 2005 Harbour Report Press Release:

Nissan's Mexico Operations & Canton, MS Plant did not participate.

Honda's Alliston #1, Alabama, & Mexico plants did not participate.

Toyota's Princeton, IN Plant and Cambridge, ON South Plant did not participate. 

GM fully participates in the Harbour Report.

I have said that in the past, it is not a fair comparison to aggragate all the OEMS together as companies.

[ellives]

It may not be fair but it's interesting nonetheless.

I have said that in the past, it is not a fair comparison to aggragate all the OEMS together as companies.

[evok]

It may not be fair but it's interesting nonetheless.

None the less all auto data is interesting to me but using the Harbour plant study to compare GM, Ford to Honda, Nissan Toyota, etc. is meaningless because it is not an all inclusive study and as a result an apple to orange comparison. Plant to plant is relevant though.

[ZL-1]

You shouldn't be. Toyota excludes poor performing plants from the Harbour Report, so the Production Time data is incomplete on Toyota's side. Nissan does the same thing.

Aha, so the report is useless with regard to that.

[hyperv6]

Then GM will have almost 5 times more retirees than workers. Imagine if GM had no retirees and could use all that money on developing cars. GM basically just has to last until they start dying off, how long would that take?

Cut their medical insurance and it would speed up the process.

Edited May 24, 2006 by hyperv6