New York 2018: 2019 Cadillac XT4 Kicks Off A Product Renaissance: Comments

[G. David Felt]

I believe Mercedes-benz will have to react to the XT4 once they start losing sales of the GLA / GLC to Cadillac.  

[ccap41]

Not trying to back track again but... I do think smk is somewhat right about the JGC engines. I think they could perform quite a bit better with a turbo 4 and twin turbo 6. We all want V8 noises but the 5.7 really isn't anything other than a good noise maker compared to a TTv6. Keep the v8 or n/a v6 for those afraid of modern things. 

They could have a 275hp/300tq turbo 4 and a 375hp/400-425tq twin turbo v6. 

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

No one cares. Cadillac is going to sell the crap out of these. It will probably become their highest volume vehicle just like the Encore did for Buick.  This really is the next step up in luxury for Encore or GLA drivers who want only slightly larger than their current car.

No one is going to bring a measuring tape with them. You are lying about this being related to Equinox, it is related to Regal.

The GLA can't take a V6, but this XT4 can. 

I don't think they will sell the crap out of it, I think the low price leases will move some metal, but there is little profit to be made on stuff that that, this thing leases cheaper than the CLA which everyone here said was a drain on Mercedes.  And the GLA has a 375 hp option, I think getting bumped to 400 hp, that is more than enough in a vehicle that size.  

I think the XT4's size is a plus, there are times I see a Rav4 or Audi Q5 and think they look pretty big, even these small SUVs are getting big, and not everyone wants more size if they do 95% of their driving alone.  I see the XT4 selling more in the 2500 per month range, similar to what the MKC does, I don't know if it is stand out enough to move 5,000 units a month like some of the strong sellers.

There is a GLB coming in 2019 that will line up nicely with this XT4.  

[smk4565]

43 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I believe Mercedes-benz will have to react to the XT4 once they start losing sales of the GLA / GLC to Cadillac.  

The GLB is a year away, it will size and price head on with the XT4, have similar hp in the base model.  But the GLB will have 300+ hp and 400+ hp AMG versions too.

And ccap is right about the Jeep GC having a turbo.  Hell Turbo the Hemi for an SRT model, and still sell it, but selling a 360 hp V8 is lame.

[Drew Dowdell]

58 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I don't think they will sell the crap out of it, I think the low price leases will move some metal, but there is little profit to be made on stuff that that, this thing leases cheaper than the CLA which everyone here said was a drain on Mercedes.  And the GLA has a 375 hp option, I think getting bumped to 400 hp, that is more than enough in a vehicle that size.  

I think the XT4's size is a plus, there are times I see a Rav4 or Audi Q5 and think they look pretty big, even these small SUVs are getting big, and not everyone wants more size if they do 95% of their driving alone.  I see the XT4 selling more in the 2500 per month range, similar to what the MKC does, I don't know if it is stand out enough to move 5,000 units a month like some of the strong sellers.

There is a GLB coming in 2019 that will line up nicely with this XT4.  

Cadillac is not done with the engine options on the XT4. I highly doubt you've sat in or been near the XT4 yet.  I have. 

The lease prices you are seeing are pre-order discount pricing for the base model.  No one said the CLA would drain Mercedes.... we said it would devalue and cheapen the brand. It has.   Cadillac has a much superior product in just about every measure in the ATS. No. One. Cares. how big the ATS is compared to the CLA.  Any objective measuring between the two cars puts the ATS on top.  People who buy the CLA do it for the badge.  Even taking Cadillac out of the mix, there are better options from the other German brands. 

[regfootball]

I think there will eventually be an amped up 2.0 turbo 4. Since this engine is all new they are starting with one state of tune. 

Regarding the Chrysler v6. The new 3.6 in our Pacifica improved over what was already a good engine. Better power delivery. Better mpg. Better trans. Is way quicker. For a normal aspirated v6 it’s not bad. I do think fca could use a twin turbo six. But I wouldn’t replace the v6 with a turbo 4 in any of the larger fca products. 

[Robert Hall]

8 minutes ago, regfootball said:

I do think fca could use a twin turbo six. But I wouldn’t replace the v6 with a turbo 4 in any of the larger fca products. 

Neither would I..I have no interest in a turbo 4..that's something for subcompacts and compacts, IMO...seems out of place in a 5000lb SUV.

[ccap41]

30 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

People who buy Luxury Cars do it for the badge.

 

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

 

I would totally disagree with that. I grew up in a mixed household of auto's as every maker has their day of building a superior auto. The badge means nothing compared to the quality, comfort and what you like. In that regards, I have had asian brands and all the American brands and do not buy based on badge. 

You have two types of buyers, badge snobs and those that are buying based on what they like, works for them, etc.

That has clearly been shown here.

[Robert Hall]

Badges often correlate to perception of quality and reliability... every brand has it's exceptions, but some have a reputation and image of quality and reliability more than others...

[G. David Felt]

9 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Badges often correlate to perception of quality and reliability... every brand has it's exceptions, but some have a reputation and image of quality and reliability more than others...

Guess I never got that Memo as I do not see that for BMW and MB with the number of them I see on the side of the roads needing help or on tow beds.

Maybe it is my area where both brands to sell in large quantity to mostly asian badge snobs and as such you see them on the roads allot and broken down allot.

[ccap41]

26 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

perception of quality

Exactly. 

[Drew Dowdell]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

 

Sometimes.... sometimes not.  There are certainly Honda humpers and Toyota Fanbois out there. I am personal friends with a Suzuki and Isuzu fanboy.  Don't get between a Saab fanboi and his 9-3 Aero.... you'll get hurt.

The C-Class is a fantastic car, certainly in the top 3 in its segment to where the choice can come down to aesthetic preference. There might be a bit of badge snobbery, but for the C-Class you're not passing by better cars to get to it.

The CLA/GLA is the exact opposite.  It has mediocre handling, terrible ride quality, interior quality well below its price class.  It is expensive for what you get. The GLA is $4k more than the exact same car you can get over at Infiniti and the QX30 is arguably better looking. So to pick the GLA, you have to be willing to pay $4,000 more for the same car just to get a 3-pointed star.  Now add into it that the X1/2 are out there, soon this XT4, the new RDX, the new Lexus UX (which isn't great, but still better than GLA) all at the same price point as the GLA and all are better cars.   So the number of better vehicles for less money you have to pass up to go buy a GLA is pretty significant.... the only reason I can see to buy a GLA is that one is after the badge or they have a friend who is a MB salesman. 

[ccap41]

39 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

the only reason I can see to buy a GLA is that one is after the badge or they have a friend who is a MB salesman. 

Or you just like the way it looks, which a lot of people buy based on. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, ccap41 said:

Or you just like the way it looks, which a lot of people buy based on. 

Eh... I might go with that if it was a decent looking vehicle, but the GLA is really bland and generic outside of its melon sized 3-point star on the front.  That's why I pointed out the QX30. At least it has some nice looks to it. 

 

 

[ccap41]

There's nothing wrong with its design though. It's clean and simple. 

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Cadillac is not done with the engine options on the XT4. I highly doubt you've sat in or been near the XT4 yet.  I have. 

The lease prices you are seeing are pre-order discount pricing for the base model.  No one said the CLA would drain Mercedes.... we said it would devalue and cheapen the brand. It has.   Cadillac has a much superior product in just about every measure in the ATS. No. One. Cares. how big the ATS is compared to the CLA.  Any objective measuring between the two cars puts the ATS on top.  People who buy the CLA do it for the badge.  Even taking Cadillac out of the mix, there are better options from the other German brands. 

The SRX/XT5 have been on sale since 2010 and no engine option has showed up yet, the 3.6 V6 has gone it alone for 8 years.  So I wouldn't hold my breath for options on the XT4.

The ATS was also developed to go against the C-class and 3-series.  The CLA wasn't even on sale when the ATS went on sale.  So direct all those ATS comparisons to what the C-class brings to the table, which is as you say a fantastic car.

The CLA/GLA are "below the line" or "below the bar" as Mike Tomlin would say.  That seems to be being addressed as all the FWD model Mercedes will be all in 2019 and the A-class interior looks good, has new infotainment, and revised powertrains.  Right now the XC40, and A3/Q3 are probably better products, but if Mercedes figured out how to make the C-E-S classes top of segment, I am sure they can do it one more time.

[Drew Dowdell]

If you continue to lie and troll, I'm going to start issuing warning points

The first gen SRX had the 3.6 and 4.6

The second generation SRX had the 3.0 and 2.8TT and later the 3.0 and the 3.6 and later the upgraded 3.6

The XT5 has been out about 2 years and is selling like gangbusters, what additional sales do you think it would gain to justify the investment of putting the 3.6TT from the XTS in there.  Show me the ROI, with numbers. I want to see your calculations.

You also like to ignore history or make up your own. 

The ATS was indeed designed to go up against the old 3-series and C-Class... but then those cars got big and fat while the ATS retained its lightest in class segment.  A C300 4matic weighs as much as a CT6 these days.  So when the C/3 gained weight, the ATS was left in the entry lux slot.  MB and BMW came around and put up FWD cars against the ATS.  Again, objectively, the ATS is a far better vehicle than the CLA AMG and BMW 2-series. Neither of those can come with a twin turbo V6 and neither of them can run with a C-Class or 3-series in handling like the ATS does.  The ATS, CLA, and 2-series all play in the same price class. The ATS has a bit more room, a lot more handling, better ride (than the CLA), and a substantially wider range of engine choices.  Somehow you see that as a disadvantage for Cadillac. 

-----

The XC40 is probably the best in the segment at the moment, but it is tall and not very sporty driving.  I'm thinking the XT4 will take the spot as the sporty driving crossover once it comes out.  There is more engine information coming about XT4, I have that straight from a Cadillac rep's mouth. 

[G. David Felt]

35 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

There's nothing wrong with its design though. It's clean and simple. 

Yet that same clean and simple look for a Cadillac or pretty much any other brand besides Mercedes-benz causes a blaster of negative comments. 

Clean and Simple to a point of being excessive BLAH, PASS. That look is on the same equal footing as the BLAH Camry of the 90's and early 2000's.

[Drew Dowdell]

41 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

There's nothing wrong with its design though. It's clean and simple. 

It's the face of a mid-size SUV tacked on to the body of a vehicle the size of my Encore

[Suaviloquent]

There is one thing I do like about the XT4 is that Cadillac is not doing any of that crossover coupe stupidity in instead the compromise they made for a sporty entry crossover is just a slightly shorter and lower priced alternative to the stupid X4 and GLC coupe...

[regfootball]

4 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Neither would I..I have no interest in a turbo 4..that's something for subcompacts and compacts, IMO...seems out of place in a 5000lb SUV.

yes there is definitely a tipping point on where you cut off the 4 and stay with a 6.  Ford Edge seems ok with the 2.0 turbo but I would never put a turbo four in a Grand Cherokee.

why the XT4 will sell well in the compact class.....  \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by regfootball

[frogger]

I know GM photography can be crap, but are they blacking out the floor in that picture to hide something, does this 2019 FWD based luxury CUV have a driveshaft hump?? I don't understand why so many still have a prominent one.

Here is an RDX, it has a tiny one.

Edited June 29, 2018 by frogger

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, frogger said:

I know GM photography can be crap, but are they blacking out the floor in that picture to hide something, does this 2019 FWD based luxury CUV have a driveshaft hump?? I don't understand why so many still have a prominent one.

Here is an RDX, it has a tiny one.

Well, the AWD versions have a driveshaft...and the exhaust runs through there also...

[frogger]

26 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Well, the AWD versions have a driveshaft...and the exhaust runs through there also...

Yes, but on some platforms like the RDX they manage to keep a flat rear passenger floor regardless of AWD.   Since it is a new platform I'm guessing the next MDX will share it and also be flat back there.

I'm pretty sure CRV, RAV4, Equinox/Envision/Terrain  rear floors are pretty flat too, so this is odd.

https://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2018/03/2019-Cadillac-XT4-rear-interior-seats-01.jpg

 

 

 

[regfootball]

3 hours ago, frogger said:

I know GM photography can be crap, but are they blacking out the floor in that picture to hide something, does this 2019 FWD based luxury CUV have a driveshaft hump?? I don't understand why so many still have a prominent one.

Here is an RDX, it has a tiny one.

 

i love me a good conspiracy theory but come to think  of it, it sounds like something GM would do..... LOL

[Drew Dowdell]

If they put a 3.0tt (total guess on my part), they would need a more robust drive shaft.

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, dfelt said:

Yet that same clean and simple look for a Cadillac or pretty much any other brand besides Mercedes-benz causes a blaster of negative comments. 

Clean and Simple to a point of being excessive BLAH, PASS. That look is on the same equal footing as the BLAH Camry of the 90's and early 2000's.

I've never negatively commented on Caddy's design, At least not in the way you're talking about it. I like their A&S styling, for the most part.

[G. David Felt]

14 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I've never negatively commented on Caddy's design, At least not in the way you're talking about it. I like their A&S styling, for the most part.

Yes, that is true, I am talking in the larger general sense to others that have bashed Cadillac about their style.

I understand where you are coming from and appreciate that you like various styles from various vendors.  

[frogger]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

If they put a 3.0tt (total guess on my part), they would need a more robust drive shaft.

That's a pretty good guess IMO.  I noticed the XT5 doesn't have a hump and has no performance version.

 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, frogger said:

That's a pretty good guess IMO.  I noticed the XT5 doesn't have a hump and has no performance version.

 

It's only a guess because the point that "the Epsilon platform can take a V6 but the Delta platform can't, that's why we didn't use Equinox" was driven home.