EV trucks/ SUVs

[balthazar]

So here's an interesting article, in light of the rising hype over possibly "EV all the trucks!!'
https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-x/2016/long-term-road-test/2016-tesla-model-x-tow-test-recap.html

It's a worth-while, real-world read, and casts some real doubt on the viability of EV haul vehicles.

Tester took a Model X, which has a tow rating about 4980 lbs, towing a teeny trailer around California for a 4-day road trip. Near 5000 lbs tow rating is pretty good in all actuality- that will handle most homeowner needs short of large boat or car-hauling. And the impression of the Model X's towing by the tester was very positive, performance-wise:

"Right away, the Sepulveda Pass demonstrated what I love about towing with an electric vehicle. Many of the difficulties associated with climbing a grade simply disappear. A direct-drive electric motor never shifts; the revs have no need to climb. The Model X can generate so much power and torque that it never strains, never gets any louder. And the Tesla's cruise control is so unfailingly precise that your chosen speed never waivers even a half a mile per hour. Uphill, level ground — even downhill — it all feels exactly the same."

Everything up to now sounds great, right? But the eyeopener for both the tester and the average consumer at large considering an EV (especially in the guise of a work/tow vehicle) is how an EV greatly alters travel times. This is the very thing EV OEMs MUST address to gain widespread market penetration.

Day One Summary:
Drive distance: 217 miles
Total time: 8 hours, 9 minutes (5 hours, 2 minutes driving; 3 hours, 7 minutes charging)

Day Two Summary:
Drive distance: 308 miles
Total time: 11 hours, 48 minutes (8 hours, 4 minutes driving, 3 hours, 44 minutes charging)

Day Three Summary:
Drive distance: 283 miles
Total time: 9 hours 36 minutes (6 hours, 47 minutes driving; 2 hours, 49 minutes charging)

Day Four Summary:
Drive distance: 213 miles
Total time: 7 hours, 5 minutes (4 hours, 48 minutes driving; 2 hours, 17 minutes charging)

That a 220-mile trip should take 8 hours to complete is just not acceptable for the vast, vast majority of attention-deficit, instant-gratification, hurry-hurry consumers out there. I've done that leg (220 miles : Central NJ to upstate Hudson Valley NY and back) in 3.5 hours in a internal combustion Jeep- no refueling stops. I'm going to stick with taking 5 minutes to fuel versus adding 4.5 hours to a 3.5 hour trip anyday.

EVs have a LONG way to go to get any meaningful market penetration.

Edited February 26, 2018 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

Charging is the crutch that many will point at and yet with XFS, that becomes a mute point. 

Reality, ICE trucks in the beginning of the 1900's COULD NOT do the trip you mention either and good luck finding the convenience of fueling stations in those early days.

EV's are where ICE was in regards to fueling, not enough charging spots and the Xtreme Fast Charging is only just now beginning to get installed that will address the time to Fuel.

I have posted that the breakthroughs in Battery tech have come and are only now going into production. As posted in the alternative fuel forum, Toshiba has a 200 mile battery pack that charges in 6 min and a 400 mile battery pack that charges in 12 min using XFS chargers.

Matter of time, Matter of time. Early adopters of course will always deal with what the masses will not accept. Yet technology will come and change the approach to how we travel, how we move product, items, etc.

We are in the beginning of the EV auto industry.

On top of this, If Tesla had offered a 200 kWh or 300 kWh battery pack that would give you 500 miles of range without stopping to charge, this would not even be an issue and we all know that.

We know battery costs are coming down, longer rang is coming as is extreme fast charging to address the fueling time. End result, for now Diesel trucks are where we need to be to haul items long distances, but in time even that will be replaced as we move the EV tech forward.

[balthazar]

Model X is rated at 237-289 miles. Point is the lil trailer cut into that so heavily that 2 trips of 213 & 217 miles still required 5 and a half hours of charging. At Tesla Superchargers, per the article pics.

This has been my point all along; sure the tech will probably get better. IC has gotten better & better over time, too. But Toshiba doesn't build vehicles and right now- it's just not even a lateral to IC. Get comparable tech in place, then change your catalog over to EV. It just seems that OEMs are doing the inverse of that.

Comparisons to 1900 are not really valid; EV, steam & IC were all brand new and all had extreme compromises to deal with- there was no huge disparity in day-to-day life between the different motive systems then.

Edited February 26, 2018 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Model X is rated at 237-289 miles. Point is the lil trailer cut into that so heavily that 2 trips of 213 & 217 miles still required 5 and a half hours of charging. At Tesla Superchargers, per the article pics.

This has been my point all along; sure the tech will probably get better. IC has gotten better & better over time, too. But Toshiba doesn't build vehicles and right now- it's just not even a lateral to IC. Get comparable tech in place, then change your catalog over to EV. It just seems that OEMs are doing the inverse of that.

Comparisons to 1900 are not really valid; EV, steam & IC were all brand new and all had extreme compromises to deal with- there was no huge disparity in day-to-day life between the different motive systems then.

Toshiba batteries are going into commercial busses and cars that will be out in 2019 as 2020 models. XFS chargers are getting installed now and the install base will grow. For those that haul trailers and need miles, you have ICE Diesel trucks to do the job or SUV's. In time it will change as you say.

Let's also point out that they traveled only at 55 mph per the state regulations for trailer towing at 55 mph. We both know that most do not stay to that and pull much faster so time would be reduced of getting to destination and yes faster you go more drage, etc. etc. etc.. 

You stated you make your 220 mile trip in 3.5hrs, so then your pulling a trailer at 62.85 mph average. The Tesla could do that too.

We will always have the chicken or egg issue and right now we have the start of a change over. 

I agree that EV's are not for everyone and for long road trips at this time, I would take an ICE over an EV as I like to drive about 500-600 miles a day. For around town, for 90% of most people's needs, they can get along just fine with an EV auto that has a 200-300 mile battery pack and plug in at night.

 

[ccap41]

14 minutes ago, dfelt said:

XFS chargers are getting installed now and the install base will grow.

It took how long to get chargers as widespread as they are now, how long until these super duper fast chargers are widespread enough to make a difference? Another 5-10 years? 

 

15 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Let's also point out that they traveled only at 55 mph per the state regulations for trailer towing at 55 mph. We both know that most do not stay to that and pull much faster so time would be reduced of getting to destination and yes faster you go more drage, etc. etc. etc.. 

So the vehicle would be less efficient needing more charge time.. Going 55mph should have yielded them pretty close to ideal highway range. 

 

16 minutes ago, dfelt said:

For around town, for 90% of most people's needs, they can get along just fine with an EV auto that has a 200-300 mile battery pack and plug in at night.

I'd up that to 95% of people with a 2-300 mile range. Very. VERY, few people actually need more than that daily Or are towing that much for their personal selves.