Short term car shopping. Again.

[smk4565]

Volvo S60's are cheap and TURBOCHARGED!!!  

I really like the first one in Navy with the 2-tone interior

2012 S60

2012 S60 gray

[smk4565]

21 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Insurance is usually high for Mustangs and young drivers... for cheap reliable used cars the standard answer for most people are Civic, Accord, Corolla or Camry...all built in the US though import brands, but those sound like no-gos here...

Coupes do have high insurance.  Volvos however do not, because they are 5 star safety rated and driven by geography teachers in tweed blazers and architects named Lionel.

[balthazar]

• Not buying a 21 yr old kid a luxury car.
• Mustang is not something I had considered... have to weigh pros & cons.
2012 V6, 28K miles, $11K, 38 miles from me.
• Insurance for now will be on me.
• Toyotas are absolutely the bottom of the barrel for me- too many problems in recent years. Won't touch one.

[balthazar]

• Volts within 50 miles of me with 50K miles or so are $14.5K and up.
• Focus, 2014, 38K miles, $7995
• Focus, 2012, 25K miles, $7700

[ocnblu]

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

• Volts within 50 miles of me with 50K miles or so are $14.5K and up.
• Focus, 2014, 38K miles, $7995
• Focus, 2012, 25K miles, $7700

For Ford compacts, please avoid ones with the PowerShift auto-manual transmission.  Can your boy drive a stick?  If so, find a Focus with stick (or one built earlier with a conventional automatic) and you'll be alright.

Edited March 3, 2018 by ocnblu

[balthazar]

Manual trans are like electric cars- no one wants 'em!
Looked at a clean, bright red Focus hatch, 2016, 27K miles, $10.9K, been on the lot for 301 days!

Stick car.

[ocnblu]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Manual trans are like electric cars- no one wants 'em!
Looked at a clean, bright red Focus hatch, 2016, 27K miles, $10.9K, been on the lot for 301 days!

Stick car.

BUY IT!  I think you've solved your problemo, por favor! 

[balthazar]

• Bill- what have you heard RE the Powershift auto @ Ford?

• Looked at~
'09 Civic coupe, 44K, $9K
A handful of Focii; '14 SE sedan, 48K, $9985
'15 Fusion, 80K, $11,145. On that one, if we put $6K down & financed $6500, monthly would be $150. Too many miles.
Rejecting anything showing an accident or over 60K miles.

• Our 2016 Jeep Liberty shopping conclusion was re-affirmed, $10K just doesn't buy you much in the way of a long-term car.

• Looking thru a couple of car sales sites (Car Gurus), there are a number of Cruzes that seemingly fit the bill. Jeeps are way too pricey- at the prices used Wranglers cost, Jeep should be selling 500K/year.

• One Ford/subaru dealer was advertising 'Motor Trend Certified'/warranteed vehicles, that's a new one on me. Wasn't enticing me any.

[smk4565]

Focus or Cruze will be the cheap options for an under $10k, under 50k mile car.  There isn't much at that price unless it is an 8 year old car or an economy car.  When you have Terrains and Rav4's going for $35k and demand for SUVs, it is like 8 years before they get cheap.

 

[ocnblu]

Mark, there is a thick book of complaints about that transmission in the Focus and Fiesta.  Not to mention class action lawsuits against Ford.  It has been through way more attempted OEM fixes than the nine speed auto as used in FWD/AWD Chrysler products.  Run, Grasshopper

[smk4565]

I still like a used Volvo, good sturdy, safe transportation, and TURBOCHARGED 5-cylinder.  The sort of EXCITEMENT Pontiac was missing.

[balthazar]

Pontiac built loads of turbo cars, tho usually 6s and 8s. FAR more interesting than tweed-upholtered volvos.
So when are you trading up to a volvo?

[smk4565]

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

Pontiac built loads of turbo cars, tho usually 6s and 8s. FAR more interesting than tweed-upholtered volvos.
So when are you trading up to a volvo?

I don't want a Volvo, but it is better than a Focus or Cruze or Volt.   The Civic isn't a bad idea, those are reliable.

[ocnblu]

30 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I don't want a Volvo, but it is better than a Focus or Cruze or Volt.   The Civic isn't a bad idea, those are reliable.

Volvos are just like every other European car... a money pit after warranty runs out.  Why they're leased so often.

[balthazar]

51 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I don't want a Volvo, but it is better than a Focus or Cruze or Volt.   The Civic isn't a bad idea, those are reliable.

I don't want a volvo either. Not many people do.

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I don't want a Volvo, but it is better than a Focus or Cruze or Volt.   The Civic isn't a bad idea, those are reliable.

Take a Volt over a Volvo or MB any day. Far more Reliable and efficient than either of the aforementioned autos.

[Drew Dowdell]

On 3/3/2018 at 8:49 PM, smk4565 said:

I still like a used Volvo, good sturdy, safe transportation, and TURBOCHARGED 5-cylinder.  The sort of EXCITEMENT Pontiac was missing.

The 5-cylinder Volvos have interesting maintenance schedules.  They have flame traps and oil traps that need to be cleaned out and replaced at like 70k miles or you burn up the engine.  50 cent part, $400 labor to complete the job because once you open the hood you have to dig all the way to Sweden to get to it. 

[ykX]

 

On 3/3/2018 at 8:58 PM, smk4565 said:

I don't want a Volvo, but it is better than a Focus or Cruze or Volt.   The Civic isn't a bad idea, those are reliable.

34 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The 5-cylinder Volvos have interesting maintenance schedules.  They have flame traps and oil traps that need to be cleaned out and replaced at like 70k miles or you burn up the engine.  50 cent part, $400 labor to complete the job because once you open the hood you have to dig all the way to Sweden to get to it. 

My friends had S60 from that era.  Didn't drive it that much too but the amount of problems they had with it was pretty incredible.  I think turned them off from Volvo forever.

[smk4565]

Well a Subaru was my first choice, because they are awd and safe and more reliable than a Volvo.

[balthazar]

[ykX]

@balthazar google GM class action suit and you get even bigger wall of search results

[balthazar]

That's just a snapshot of page 1. Point being, not looking to jump into a car with multiple oil-related problems.

[smk4565]

Yeah the GM ignition switch alone was 30 million cars and caused 124 deaths.   If we are going to buy cars based on lowest % recalls, get ready to buy a whole lot of Porsche and Mercedes-Benz because they rank 1-2 in lowest recall percentage from 1985-2016.

https://clark.com/cars/automaker-best-worst-recall-history-rate/

Forbes Recall story

And here is a 2014 Forbes story that doesn't include Porsche data for some reason that looks back to cars registered since 1980 and Mercedes is #1.  Forbes article  Best or Nothing as always.

[balthazar]

You keep singing the same song but the audience left hours ago.

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Yeah the GM ignition switch alone was 30 million cars and caused 124 deaths.   If we are going to buy cars based on lowest % recalls, get ready to buy a whole lot of Porsche and Mercedes-Benz because they rank 1-2 in lowest recall percentage from 1985-2016.

https://clark.com/cars/automaker-best-worst-recall-history-rate/

Forbes Recall story

And here is a 2014 Forbes story that doesn't include Porsche data for some reason that looks back to cars registered since 1980 and Mercedes is #1.  Forbes article  Best or Nothing as always.

Most go for Nothing as ALWAYS!

Repair alone on Mercedes leaves them DEAD ON ROAD and then scrapped up into a trash heap. There is a common sense reason as to why MB is the largest Lease company in the auto world. No one would dare buy one, excluding current company.

[ocnblu]

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

You keep singing the same song but the audience left hours ago.

Let me get this straight:  you calling SMK a fat lady?

[ccap41]

You can google any issue with any car and have a full page of results. 

8 hours ago, dfelt said:

Most go for Nothing as ALWAYS!

Repair alone on Mercedes leaves them DEAD ON ROAD and then scrapped up into a trash heap. There is a common sense reason as to why MB is the largest Lease company in the auto world. No one would dare buy one, excluding current company.

All of those leases get returned eventually and..you guessed it..sell. 

[smk4565]

Or 50% of Mercedes are leased which is down from 53% in 2014 and 6 brands have higher lease rates than them and the market is catching up.

Edmunds lease rates

[Drew Dowdell]

The number of leases v. buys is going to fluctuate with the overall economy.

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

You can google any issue with any car and have a full page of results. 

All of those leases get returned eventually and..you guessed it..sell. 

Mostly to OUTSIDE this country. Interesting is that BMW exports 70% of the cars it built in the US outside. MB exports 50%.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/12/americas-hot-export-article-import-cars/

That above is just the new auto's, surprised to see plenty of exporting of the used auto's to China where they sell for new prices here but are used. Clearly MB and BMW cannot sell all their Lease returns, so exporting they go.

[frogger]

3 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Mostly to OUTSIDE this country. Interesting is that BMW exports 70% of the cars it built in the US outside. MB exports 50%.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/12/americas-hot-export-article-import-cars/

That above is just the new auto's, surprised to see plenty of exporting of the used auto's to China where they sell for new prices here but are used. Clearly MB and BMW cannot sell all their Lease returns, so exporting they go.

Where are you getting info that most MB and BMW lease returns are sold to export markets??  What do lease returns have to do with exports of newly built vehicles?

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by frogger

[ccap41]

11 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Mostly to OUTSIDE this country. Interesting is that BMW exports 70% of the cars it built in the US outside. MB exports 50%.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/12/americas-hot-export-article-import-cars/

That above is just the new auto's, surprised to see plenty of exporting of the used auto's to China where they sell for new prices here but are used. Clearly MB and BMW cannot sell all their Lease returns, so exporting they go.

Yeah man... That has absolutely zero to do with returned leases being exported. Those are new vehicles being built here and exported. 

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, frogger said:

Where are you getting info that most MB and BMW lease returns are sold to export markets??  What do lease returns have to do with exports of newly built vehicles?

 

For years even American lease returns were exported to other markets. How else do you account for the disappearance of all the Hummers off American Roads. GM Exported them to other markets where they could sell them at a profit and get the tree huggers from using it in the news and giving a black eye to GM over the Hummer.

Exporting used lease returns has been a big business in North America for a long time to other markets. MB cannot sell all their lease returns themselves and turns to the wholesale business to unload the lease returns. In turn many end up on 3rd party lots or export companies going to China, Arab states and elsewhere in the 3rd world countries.

http://www.autoremarketing.com/wholesale/mercedes-benz-financial-converts-two-live-auctions-exclusive-online-high-line-sales

You want to get a real understanding of MB leaseing over purchase, just check out their current Financial Statements for their MB Financial Services LLC, a wholey owned subdivision of Diamler for North America.

MB-current-financial-statements.pdf

[ccap41]

23 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Or 50% of Mercedes are leased which is down from 53% in 2014 and 6 brands have higher lease rates than them and the market is catching up.

Edmunds lease rates

Those Ram, GMC, and Chevy numbers are very surprising to me. 

[G. David Felt]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah man... That has absolutely zero to do with returned leases being exported. Those are new vehicles being built here and exported. 

You just cannot see the bigger picture. Cost here are cheaper than Germany. MB builds more than they can sell and exports the new auto's, at the same time, there is still only a limited market for the Lease returns and as such must unload the lease returns too. As such, 3rd party buys from the wholesale market that MB unloads into and at the same time, many export companies that export these auto's to 3rd world countries. It is a common business even for American auto's.

[ccap41]

2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

You just cannot see the bigger picture. Cost here are cheaper than Germany. MB builds more than they can sell and exports the new auto's, at the same time, there is still only a limited market for the Lease returns and as such must unload the lease returns too. As such, 3rd party buys from the wholesale market that MB unloads into and at the same time, many export companies that export these auto's to 3rd world countries. It is a common business even for American auto's.

I'm not disputing them manufacturing their vehicles here at all. It's good for our economy for them to build here and export rather than import them everything. 

You just don't have any factual numbers on what percentage of leased vehicles are returned and shipped outside of the US. 

[G. David Felt]

24 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'm not disputing them manufacturing their vehicles here at all. It's good for our economy for them to build here and export rather than import them everything. 

You just don't have any factual numbers on what percentage of leased vehicles are returned and shipped outside of the US. 

I wish I had access to the paid sites that do record and publish that info, but the only fact I am making is that we, the USA cannot consume all the Lease returns and as such, they get sold off in many ways, mostly on the wholesale market and shipped over seas which keeps prices here up.

[smk4565]

6 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Those Ram, GMC, and Chevy numbers are very surprising to me. 

Look at what pick up trucks are costing now, people can't afford to buy them so they will lease them.  Wouldn't surprise me to see 50% lease rate on an F150 in 5 years or so, because when they are hitting $40k, you are looking at an $600-650 a month payment even on a 6 year loan and interest rates are rising.

[smk4565]

6 hours ago, dfelt said:

You just cannot see the bigger picture. Cost here are cheaper than Germany. MB builds more than they can sell and exports the new auto's, at the same time, there is still only a limited market for the Lease returns and as such must unload the lease returns too. As such, 3rd party buys from the wholesale market that MB unloads into and at the same time, many export companies that export these auto's to 3rd world countries. It is a common business even for American auto's.

Mercedes only builds GLE/GLS and C-classes here, they export SUVs back to Europe.  They also build cars in China.  This is how every car company works, they build cars in multiple countries.  GM builds cars and South Korea, China, Mexico, Canada, they used to in Germany and the UK before getting out of Europe.

And where do all these Mercedes lease returns go?  If the USA is the 3rd biggest selling market for Mercedes, why would they be sending cars to China that already has more Mercedes in it than the USA does?  And how expensive is that to load cars on ships and send them around the world.

[balthazar]

OK : we wrapped this up today, thank God.

'16 Sonic LTZ hatch, 1.6T, 6-speed auto, 35K miles. Got some minor dings outside (I don't care), interior is excellent. Pretty loaded up as a LTZ, drives better than I expected. It was $9700.

[ocnblu]

(1.4t)

Cool!

[A Horse With No Name]

Nice ride!

On 3/6/2018 at 6:16 AM, ocnblu said:

Let me get this straight:  you calling SMK a fat lady?

Most fat ladies have the sense to buy Buicks and Hondas both of which have much better reliability and lower running costs than Benz products.

[Robert Hall]

On 3/6/2018 at 7:10 PM, smk4565 said:

Mercedes only builds GLE/GLS and C-classes here, they export SUVs back to Europe.  They also build cars in China.  This is how every car company works, they build cars in multiple countries.  GM builds cars and South Korea, China, Mexico, Canada, they used to in Germany and the UK before getting out of Europe.

And where do all these Mercedes lease returns go?  If the USA is the 3rd biggest selling market for Mercedes, why would they be sending cars to China that already has more Mercedes in it than the USA does?  And how expensive is that to load cars on ships and send them around the world.

I'd assume M-B dealers sell lease returns as CPOs like other carmakers do....

[balthazar]

Brought the lil bugger home tonight, about a 50 min drive out of PA. Some initial impressions; not a lot of room between the trans tunnel & the brake pedal, you'll have to get used to keeping your foot in a certain small arch of position in order to avoid also stepping on the brake. Brakes are touchy, but they work very well. 1.4T is initially a tiny bit flat, then pulls solidly. Steering wheel is small. Binnacle instruments take a bit getting used to, in addition to the red-lit tach needle making me think a warning light was on.

[ocnblu]

Poor Balthy...

[balthazar]

Weld 4 of these together and we're closer to familiar territory.
Luckily, I'm not going to spend much time in it.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Weld 4 of these together and we're closer to familiar territory.
Luckily, I'm not going to spend much time in it.

So in other words a solid worthy starter auto for you kid.  

[ocnblu]

Notice he said "trans tunnel" in a FWD compact car.   

[A Horse With No Name]

23 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Notice he said "trans tunnel" in a FWD compact car.   

That's because it's a transforner model like the bumblebee Camaro. Should scare the hell out of the neighbors cat when it transforms. 

[2QuickZ's]

On 2/28/2018 at 9:07 PM, 2QuickZ's said:

What about Chevrolet Sonics?  You can pick sedan or hatch and the price is where you are looking.

2015 Sonic RS - $10,944

2016 Sonic LTZ - $10,921

 

On 3/24/2018 at 7:07 PM, balthazar said:

OK : we wrapped this up today, thank God.

'16 Sonic LTZ hatch, 1.6T, 6-speed auto, 35K miles. Got some minor dings outside (I don't care), interior is excellent. Pretty loaded up as a LTZ, drives better than I expected. It was $9700.

Oooh!  Do I get a prize?

Congrats on your purchase!  Sounds like a fun little runabout.