December 2017: General Motors Co.

[William Maley]

Three-peat: Chevrolet’s Retail Share Grows for Third Consecutive Year – up 1 point since 2015

• Buick and GMC Buck the Industry to Post Double-digit Retail Sales Gains in December
• GM December retail sales up 2 percent; retail share tops 18 percent
• Best Commercial and Government deliveries since 2008 and largest 2017 share gain of any automaker

DETROIT — General Motors (NYSE: GM) delivered 3,002,241 vehicles in the United States in 2017, including more than 1.3 million trucks and 965,090 crossovers. In the process, GM set new annual sales records for pickup and crossover deliveries, electric vehicles sales, average transaction prices and more. GM also reduced year-end inventories more than its target. Inventories were 752,554 units, down 90,000 from a year ago. Days supply was 63 days.

Chevrolet Momentum

• Chevrolet has been GM’s most powerful growth engine. The brand delivered year-over-year retail market share increases in 2015, 2016 and 2017.
• Since the end of 2014, Chevrolet’s retail share has grown from 10.2 percent, according to Polk registration data, to an estimated 11.2 percent.

The Fastest Growing Crossover Company

• GM crossover deliveries were up 17 percent year over year, driven by record sales of the Chevrolet Equinox, Traverse and Trax, as well as the Buick Envision, Buick Encore and GMC Acadia.
• GM grew its retail share of the crossover market more than any other automaker, according to the latest J.D. Power PIN estimates. GM’s retail share grew 1.6 percentage points to 13.1 percent. The only other major automaker to gain retail share was up less than one point.
• Chevrolet became the industry’s fastest-growing crossover brand in 2017 based on retail market share, with the all-new Equinox and Traverse gaining more than one point of share in their respective segments. Equinox retail deliveries were up 21 percent and Traverse was up 31 percent. The Trax was up 5 percent.
• Crossovers helped Buick deliver its best calendar year sales since 2004. The Buick Encore delivered its best year ever. It has been Buick’s volume leader for three straight years.
• Crossovers now account for more than 80 percent of Buick’s retail deliveries, compared with about two-thirds last year. Retail crossover sales for the brand were up 26 percent year over year, with the Enclave up 14 percent, the Encore up 8 percent and Envision up 167 percent.
• Cadillac’s retail crossover deliveries were up 9 percent, driven by the new XT5.

The Industry’s Best-selling Trucks

• GM sold more pickup trucks in the United States than any other automaker for the fourth year in a row – a record 948,909 units – thanks to its unique three-truck strategy. Since 2014, Chevrolet and GMC have been the only brands to offer mid-size, light- and heavy-duty pickups.
• GM sold 239,719 full-size SUVs and has led the segment since the launch of the Chevrolet Suburban in 1935. Combined, the Chevrolet Tahoe and Suburban, and the GMC Yukon and Yukon XL, have earned more than 75 percent retail market share for the fourth consecutive year.
• At GMC, more than half of Sierra HD customers and more than 70 percent of Yukon customers purchase premium Denali models.
• The Cadillac Escalade has earned at least 30 percent of the retail market for large luxury SUVs for four consecutive years, with ATPs that are more than $20,000 above its closest domestic competitor.

The Leader in Affordable, Long-range EVs

• Chevrolet delivered more than 43,669 electric vehicles in 2017, including 23,297 Bolt EV crossovers and 20,349 Volt sedans.
• In December, the Bolt EV had its best month since launch.

Record ATPs

• GM’s average transaction prices (ATPs), which are net of incentive spending estimates, were more than $35,400 for the year and they surpassed $38,000 in December. Both are records, and significantly above the industry average of $31,600 for the calendar year.

Best Commercial and Government Deliveries Since 2008

• Total Commercial and Government deliveries were more than 296,000 units, the most since 2008. Commercial and Government deliveries are now the largest component of GM’s fleet deliveries, following a cumulative reduction of 170,000 rental deliveries since 2014.
• 2017 marked the first year that GM Commercial and Government deliveries have been greater than daily rental deliveries in the last quarter century.
• Based on Polk registration data through October, GM has gained more Commercial and Government market share in 2017 than any other automaker.

Total and Retail Sales

• GM’s total sales in 2017 were down 1 percent year over year, outperforming the industry, which is expected to be down 2 percent.
• GM’s retail deliveries, which are more than 80 percent of total sales, were down 1 percent year over year, in line with the industry’s expected performance. 

December Highlights (vs. a year ago)

Corporate

• Industry sales and retail sales are all expected to be down about 4 percent. Fleet sales are expected to be down 5 percent. There was one less selling day.
• GM’s retail market share is expected to surpass 18 percent, up one percentage point for the company’s best month of the year. Retail sales totaled 254,449 units, up 2 percent.  
• GM’s Commercial and Government deliveries were up a combined 7 percent and daily rental deliveries were down 40 percent. Total fleet sales were down 22 percent.
• GM’s incentives as a percentage of ATP in the fourth quarter of 2017 averaged 13.3 percent, in line with the fourth quarter of 2016, according to J.D. Power PIN estimates. GM incentives during the month of December averaged 14.8 percent.

Chevrolet

• Chevrolet’s retail market share increased 0.2 percentage points to an estimated 11.5 percent and ATPs for the month were the best-ever at more than $34,000.
• The Equinox and Traverse had their best December total sales ever with increases of 21 percent and 19 percent, respectively.
• Silverado total sales were up 25 percent. The Silverado light-duty crew cab had its best month ever.

Buick

• Buick total sales were up 5 percent and retail deliveries were up 15 percent.
• On a retail basis, the Enclave was up 46 percent, the Envision up 93 percent and the Encore was up 2 percent.
• Retail market share increased an estimated 0.2 percentage points to 1.6 percent.

GMC

• GMC total sales were up 1 percent for the brand’s best sales month in more than 12 years.
• Retail deliveries were up 14 percent and share increased an estimated 0.6 percentage points to 4.1 percent.
• December ATPs were the highest on record at approximately $47,500. Calendar year ATPs of $43,700 also set a new record.
• Retail deliveries of the Sierra were up 18 percent, the Yukon was up 54 percent, and the Yukon XL was up 51 percent. The Acadia was up 1 percent.
• Denali deliveries set a monthly and full-year record, with penetration approaching 40 percent in December and 30 percent for the year. Full-year Denali deliveries were approximately 140,000 units. Denali ATPs are about 25 percent higher than overall GMC ATPs.

Cadillac

• Cadillac ATPs set a new monthly record of $58,300.

2018 Outlook 
Mustafa Mohatarem, GM’s chief economist, forecasts 2018 total vehicle sales (including medium and heavy trucks) to exceed 17 million units for the fourth year in a row. Light vehicle sales are forecasted to be in the high 16 million-unit range.

“In 2017, we had solid GDP growth and good news on employment, wages and consumer sentiment, which helped deliver very strong retail sales for the auto industry,” he said. “This year, many consumers will see their take-home pay rise because of tax reform. That will keep the broad economy growing, and help keep sales at very healthy levels even as the Fed increases interest rates.” 

GM is well positioned heading into the new year because of its low inventories and multi-year strategy to redesign and expand its truck and crossover portfolio. On a retail basis, 78 percent of GM sales are now trucks and crossovers, compared with an industry average of 65 percent.

“We are winning customers in the fastest-growing parts of the market, and our momentum continues to grow because we have strengthened our brands, grown our Commercial and Government business, sharply reduced rental sales and successfully transitioned to a crossover- and truck-focused business,” said Kurt McNeil, U.S. vice president of Sales Operations. “We are starting 2018 with very lean inventories for such a strong industry, and we see more room to grow because Chevrolet, Buick and GMC will have a full year of sales of their all-new crossovers, and we are going to launch the industry’s best full-size pickups.”

[smk4565]

80% of Buick sales and 78% of GM sales are crossovers/trucks, is that a good thing or bad thing?  

[A Horse With No Name]

About as good as can be expected in a  brutal month.

[G. David Felt]

49 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

80% of Buick sales and 78% of GM sales are crossovers/trucks, is that a good thing or bad thing?  

Based on all your post, that is where every auto company should be cause everyone wants a CUV or truck.

Honestly, I would rather see it 60/40 between CUV & Trucks / Cars.

Still good for GM to have the products consumers want. One has to hope that when the and if the change comes back to majority cars, that GM responds fast.

Will be interesting to see what changes if any come to the Bolt.

[smk4565]

They sold a ridiculous amount of Silverados, but GM’s car business is dead in the water especially at Cadillac and Buick.  I for one dislike crossovers, I wouldn’t drive one if it was given to me for free so 80% of GM’s lineup is boring to me.

[balthazar]

CT6 handily outsold the BMW 7-series thru Nov 2017 (9701 vs. 8169).
Pretty decent for a car I predicted would average 500/mnth.
I've got to drive one of these somehow... 

Edited January 3, 2018 by balthazar

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

CT6 handily outsold the BMW 7-series thru Nov 2017 (9701 vs. 8169).
Pretty decent for a car I predicted would average 500/mnth.
I've got to drive one of these somehow... 

CT6 is also priced like a 5-Series.  Compare sales of those two.  CT6 should be outselling the Escalade based on its price point.

[balthazar]

I've no doubt the CT6 is comparison-shopped with other top-shelf lux sedans, irrespective of their specific MSRPs.
Just like the S-class gets cross-shopped with the $14K cheaper 7-series & A8.
 

[smk4565]

11 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I've no doubt the CT6 is comparison-shopped with other top-shelf lux sedans, irrespective of their specific MSRPs.
Just like the S-class gets cross-shopped with the $14K cheaper 7-series & A8.
 

Probably does get cross shopped, which is why people aren’t buying it unless they are just looking for the value buy.  The worst thing that can happen for Lexus or Audi is to have someone drive an A8 or LS then go drive an S-class.  That is a no contest.

[balthazar]

Not buying which- the CT6 or the S-class? CT6 is averaging 900/mnth- that's pretty good for a new segment player that's not seen much in the way of advertising.

[oldshurst442]

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

CT6 is also priced like a 5-Series.  Compare sales of those two.  CT6 should be outselling the Escalade based on its price point.

Why would the CT6 be outselling the Escalade?

1. The CT6 is a sedan

2. The Escalade is a SUV

3. Two different types of vehicles

4. SUVs are the hot, "gotta have it" commodity

 

The CT6 is doing what it should be doing. Having sales figures that equal the  German SEDANS where the price points meet. 

And for the CT6 outselling a BMW 5 Series...a sedan that has been a benchmark for a long time...is doing all right considering sedan sales in general are down down down. 

This means that for the MINORITY of folk that want a sedan and not a SUV, are not only considering a Cadillac, but are actually PURCHASING a Cadillac over a bench marked BMW sedan. 

The 'tweener approach in price and in size seems to be working, again. (referencing the 1st and 2nd generation CTS) 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by oldshurst442

[ccap41]

30 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

The CT6 is doing what it should be doing. Having sales figures that equal the  German SEDANS where the price points meet. 

That's where you're wrong though, right? If it's priced more like an E-Class/5 Series but comparing sales to the 7 Series...? It's sales are roughly 20% of what the E/5 sell. 

[Robert Hall]

It seems with the ATS/CTS/CT6, Cadillac is trying to fit the big 3's A4/A6/A8, 3/5/7 or C/E/S ladder, but the pricing isn't in sync with the German ladders.  Then they have the XTS which is an alternate outlier.    Cadillac's structure seems to be closer to that of Lexus, with the IS/GS/LS with the ES as the alternate outlier. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[oldshurst442]

40 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That's where you're wrong though, right? If it's priced more like an E-Class/5 Series but comparing sales to the 7 Series...? It's sales are roughly 20% of what the E/5 sell. 

OK...I was talking before I actually saw sales figures foir myself. Now that I will post all informations  for me to see and analyze, I will give you the answer if I was talking through my ass or I had the right motive and idea.

(EDIT) (I ERASED ALL INFOS BECAUSE WORD OVERLOAD)

M-B  E and S    50 000 and 18 000  units sold respectively YTD

BMW 5 and 7   40 000 and 5 000   units sold respectively YTD

Audi 6 and 8     16 000 and 3 000   units sold respectively YTD

Cadillac CT6    10 000  units sold  YTD

$$$

M-B E class from $50 000 - $70 000 and S Class from $97 000 - $171 000

BMW 5 Series from $53 000 - $73 000 and 7 from $82 000 - $154 000

Audi 6 from $48 000 - $68 000  and 8 from $83 000 - $92 000

Cadillac CT6 from $54 000 - $88 000

 

OK...I see that I was talking out of my ass when I said that the CT6 compares to sales figures of a 5 Series. 

The CT6...at the lower end really does not compete sales wise to neither the E Class or the 5 Series. The 5 Series remains the benchmark or maybe now the E Class...

The CT6 at the higher end of the spectrum is comparable. But...for me to say that, the breakdown of how many CT6 sales are made at the  $50 000 end and how many are made in the $80 000 end should be revealed. I shouldnt be assuming that either...

The CT6 takes care of Audi quite nicely, but as for Mercedes Benz and BMW, there is still a lot of work to be done.

But...at a time when sedan sales are tanking and SUV and CUV sales are soaring, I dont think the CT6 will EVER be relevant...

 

I correct my mistake. Sorry for the misleading post before this one.

Edited January 4, 2018 by oldshurst442

[ccap41]

After looking at your nicely set up analysis, the CT6 really does seem quite a tweener in about every aspect from price to sales. 

I don't think the CT6 will never be relevant, I just think it will take time and a 110% effort on Cadillac's end to make it undeniably the best, for a long time. It will be hard to crack into S Class sales as it has so much more prestige than anything in that "class". I think Cadillac can do it though. They seem to engineer well enough but they fall down when they make sub par interiors(to their competition because it is not a sub par interior compared to anything mainstream at all) and base 2.0T engines in that size vehicle. Luckily they ditched the 2.0T for 2018. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by ccap41

[balthazar]

Looking forward to Cadillac's realignment of it's sedans. Most brands need to do this. I have no issue with the XTS as it is, it sells well, but in the grand scheme of things I'd prefer it to be 'rolled into' another and cut it to 3. Add half the XTS volume to the CT6 and it's at what volume- 19K units? Suddenly that's blown past the A6.

But Cadillac should not chase volume at the expense of other factors, and volume is not the prime criteria to judge product.

Edited January 4, 2018 by balthazar

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Why would the CT6 be outselling the Escalade?

1. The CT6 is a sedan

2. The Escalade is a SUV

3. Two different types of vehicles

4. SUVs are the hot, "gotta have it" commodity

 

The CT6 is doing what it should be doing. Having sales figures that equal the  German SEDANS where the price points meet. 

And for the CT6 outselling a BMW 5 Series...a sedan that has been a benchmark for a long time...is doing all right considering sedan sales in general are down down down. 

This means that for the MINORITY of folk that want a sedan and not a SUV, are not only considering a Cadillac, but are actually PURCHASING a Cadillac over a bench marked BMW sedan. 

The 'tweener approach in price and in size seems to be working, again. (referencing the 1st and 2nd generation CTS) 

 

 

CT6 should have been nicer and more powerful, but even as it stands is is about 2/3 the price of an Escalade, that is why it should outsell it or sell even at least.

CT6 does not have sales figures that rival the German sedan of equal price, CT6 is priced like a 5-Series or E-class both of which topped 5,000 units last month.  

[oldshurst442]

Just now, smk4565 said:

 

CT6 does not have sales figures that rival the German sedan of equal price, CT6 is priced like a 5-Series or E-class both of which topped 5,000 units last month.  

 

Read further on...

 

About the Escalade and the CT6. My points still stand. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Looking forward to Cadillac's realignment of it's sedans. Most brands need to do this. I have no issue with the XTS as it is, it sells well, but in the grand scheme of things I'd prefer it to be 'rolled into' another and cut it to 3. Add half the XTS volume to the CT6 and it's at what volume- 19K units? Suddenly that's blown past the A6.

But Cadillac should not chase volume at the expense of other factors, and volume is not the prime criteria to judge product.

It isn’t about chasing volume but building better product to still have sales without having to give huge discounts to clear dealer lots.  The XT5 was down, (Acura and Lincoln SUVs down too) the Q5 and GLC were up and closing in the XT5 sales volume.  These front drive crossovers are dripping just like the front drive luxury sedans did, the rear drive performance crossovers are going to take over in time.

[Drew Dowdell]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

OK...I was talking before I actually saw sales figures foir myself. Now that I will post all informations  for me to see and analyze, I will give you the answer if I was talking through my ass or I had the right motive and idea.

(EDIT) (I ERASED ALL INFOS BECAUSE WORD OVERLOAD)

M-B  E and S    50 000 and 18 000  units sold respectively YTD

BMW 5 and 7   40 000 and 5 000   units sold respectively YTD

Audi 6 and 8     16 000 and 3 000   units sold respectively YTD

Cadillac CT6    10 000  units sold  YTD

$$$

M-B E class from $50 000 - $70 000 and S Class from $97 000 - $171 000

BMW 5 Series from $53 000 - $73 000 and 7 from $82 000 - $154 000

Audi 6 from $48 000 - $68 000  and 8 from $83 000 - $92 000

Cadillac CT6 from $54 000 - $88 000

 

OK...I see that I was talking out of my ass when I said that the CT6 compares to sales figures of a 5 Series. 

The CT6...at the lower end really does not compete sales wise to neither the E Class or the 5 Series. The 5 Series remains the benchmark or maybe now the E Class...

The CT6 at the higher end of the spectrum is comparable. But...for me to say that, the breakdown of how many CT6 sales are made at the  $50 000 end and how many are made in the $80 000 end should be revealed. I shouldnt be assuming that either...

The CT6 takes care of Audi quite nicely, but as for Mercedes Benz and BMW, there is still a lot of work to be done.

But...at a time when sedan sales are tanking and SUV and CUV sales are soaring, I dont think the CT6 will EVER be relevant...

 

I correct my mistake. Sorry for the misleading post before this one.

Should probably include the CTS and XTS as well.  They straddle those MSRPs also. 

[Drew Dowdell]

21 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It isn’t about chasing volume but building better product to still have sales without having to give huge discounts to clear dealer lots.  The XT5 was down, (Acura and Lincoln SUVs down too) the Q5 and GLC were up and closing in the XT5 sales volume.  These front drive crossovers are dripping just like the front drive luxury sedans did, the rear drive performance crossovers are going to take over in time.

The Q5 is front wheel drive.  The RX was flat and the NX was up. Volvo's FWD crossovers are selling well.  Your argument is invalid. 

[balthazar]

51 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

CT6 does not have sales figures that rival the German sedan of equal price, CT6 is priced like a 5-Series or E-class both of which topped 5,000 units last month.  

However, Cadillac does have a VEHICLE to rival or exceed the Germans sedan of similar price. Much more important.

...as it stands is is about 2/3 the price of an Escalade, that is why it should outsell it or sell even at least.

My local dealer's current inventory : CT6 averages $68K, Esc averages $89K. That's a 20% price difference, not 33%.

But allow me to query: CLA starts @ $32K, or aout 20% of the c-class MSRP of $40K. Why isn't it exceeding the next sedan up the line in volume, instead of being only 1/3rd of that volume?

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

CT6 should have been nicer and more powerful, but even as it stands is is about 2/3 the price of an Escalade, that is why it should outsell it or sell even at least.

CT6 does not have sales figures that rival the German sedan of equal price, CT6 is priced like a 5-Series or E-class both of which topped 5,000 units last month.  

The Escalade is just a special seller. there are plenty of cheaper vehicles that don't out sell it. It just sells well. I bet there are some MB that are cheaper that don't sell as well as the 'Slade. 

51 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It isn’t about chasing volume but building better product to still have sales without having to give huge discounts to clear dealer lots.  The XT5 was down, (Acura and Lincoln SUVs down too) the Q5 and GLC were up and closing in the XT5 sales volume.  These front drive crossovers are dripping just like the front drive luxury sedans did, the rear drive performance crossovers are going to take over in time.

[ccap41]

In fact, the CHEAPER GLS was outsold by the MORE EXPENSIVE Escalade. 

Solve that mystery @smk4565. 

32, 248 vs 37,694

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

In fact, the CHEAPER GLS was outsold by the MORE EXPENSIVE Escalade. 

Solve that mystery @smk4565. 

I hope that is repeated by Navigator. 

[ccap41]

9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I hope that is repeated by Navigator. 

I hope so too but it has a long way to go to catch 32k sales. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Should probably include the CTS and XTS as well.  They straddle those MSRPs also. 

I agree. The Cadillac model has the CTS and XTS literally on top of each other.. and then moving over to the CT6. I'm glad they are essentially merging. 

[Drew Dowdell]

5 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

I agree. The Cadillac model has the CTS and XTS literally on top of each other.. and then moving over to the CT6. I'm glad they are essentially merging. 

How's this for crazy... a base XTS V-Sport Platinum (the only trim for V-Sport XTS now) and a CT6 3.0TT Premium Luxury with Super Cruise are right about the same price. 

[balthazar]

I would have no interest in an XTS, but I certainly would a CT6. So despite the same brand and price overlap (at the CT6 low end), only one of them would be a consideration for me.

[Drew Dowdell]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I would have no interest in an XTS, but I certainly would a CT6. So despite the same brand and price overlap (at the CT6 low end), only one of them would be a consideration for me.

Well, for the same price, you also have the option of the CTS V-Sport Premium Luxury with the expensive paint and fancier leather seats. 

This is the overlap that Cadillac is trying to cure.

XTS V-Sport Platinum - $72,090

CTS V-Sport Premium Luxury with white tri-coat and kona brown leather - $73,015

CT6 3.0TT Premium Luxury with Super Cruise - $73,290

[ccap41]

12 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I would have no interest in an XTS, but I certainly would a CT6. So despite the same brand and price overlap (at the CT6 low end), only one of them would be a consideration for me.

Agree 110%. 

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Well, for the same price, you also have the option of ...

Not quite sure how the pricing settled where it did as you state. Not that it's not permissible, just not intentionally desirable.

[Drew Dowdell]

You can still do it at other price levels as well. I picked that one because you can get Super Cruise on CT6

[balthazar]

I meant in general between the model lines. Tho the CT6 is stickering much higher, there was no need to start at $56K. I expect it's base will rise sharply. Which motor did the CT6 drop for '18 and did it effect pricing in anyway?

[smk4565]

6 hours ago, ccap41 said:

In fact, the CHEAPER GLS was outsold by the MORE EXPENSIVE Escalade. 

Solve that mystery @smk4565. 

32, 248 vs 37,694

The GLS starts cheaper than the Escalade but goes up higher than the Escalade.  There is a vehicle above GLS that could take sales from it (which is a good thing) but I think mostly the Escalade has been in the USA longer and Americans love pickups and Tahoe’s so it has a good feeder base of buyers.  

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The GLS starts cheaper than the Escalade but goes up higher than the Escalade.  There is a vehicle above GLS that could take sales from it (which is a good thing) but I think mostly the Escalade has been in the USA longer and Americans love pickups and Tahoe’s so it has a good feeder base of buyers.  

A snapshot for you.
My local Mercedes dealer has 20 GLS in stock, starting at $77K. Average price is $84K.

My local Cadillac dealer has 7 Escalade in stock, starting at 85K. Average price is $91K.

17 of the 20 GLS's referred to above are priced below the Escalade cheapest price.
GLS is the 'value buy' between these two.

[G. David Felt]

18 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The GLS starts cheaper than the Escalade but goes up higher than the Escalade.  There is a vehicle above GLS that could take sales from it (which is a good thing) but I think mostly the Escalade has been in the USA longer and Americans love pickups and Tahoe’s so it has a good feeder base of buyers.  

BullShit! Calling you out, feeder base of Tahoe owners does NOT INSURE they will end up buying an Escalade.

To many stories on the internet and too many facts to prove that cheap versions of a badge do not end up as high end purchases of the same badge. 

Chevy Buyers rarely cross shop and compare with cadillac. Same with Smart buyers cross shopping MB etc. etc. etc.

[ocnblu]

It was a few years ago, but I read that the Suburban buyer has generally the highest income of any GM vehicle owner.

[balthazar]

50 minutes ago, dfelt said:

To many stories on the internet and too many facts to prove that cheap versions of a badge end up as high end purchases of the same badge.

Are you saying this happens or doesn't (trading up within brand)?

[smk4565]

I am saying that a lot of Americans like big trucks, whether it be pickups, Tahoes or Expeditions.  I suspect a lot of Escalade buyers come from truck buyers more so than they come from people trading in a CTS or XTS or any other sedan.  And those American truck buyers aren’t likely to buy an import.  Plus Navigator sales have dropped a lot since 2010ish which probably helped the Escalade too. 

The GL has had years when it outsold the Escalade, and there is a new model coming later this year, I think they can outsell the Escalade with it.  But as I have said many times, the Escalade is executed and marketed really well, it is the one vehicle Cadillac gets right and it is a bit of an icon.

I also think for 15 or so years the Escalade was the biggest most expensive SUV so it was a status symbol, but now that Bentley, Rolls, Maserati, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari soon, are getting in the SUV game that is over.  Which is why Cadillac needs an SUV above the Escalade but that would jack up their stupid naming system.

[smk4565]

I had another thought, the Escalade is the ultimate Cadillac and their flagship product, that helps it sell.   The GLS isn’t Mercedes top SUV and the S-class is their flagship, so if you want the ultimate Mercedes, you aren’t buying a GLS. 

[balthazar]

I assume most mercedes buyers came out of an Oldsmobile. Wait- that doesn't make any sense either.

Yes: US market pick-up buyers want domestic brands. They are the best in their field. Remember when the op-eds floated on how the Tundra was going to do to the pick-up segment that the camry did to family transport pods? Never happened. Tundra- even after all the boom years for pickups, sold 10K units last month. It's worse than Dodge before it went 'big rig' in '94. But pick-up owners do not switch to SUVs, they just don't. I'd never buy a Tahoe/Suburban.

- - - - -
Mercedes flagship is the 40-yr old G-wagon- it has the highest MSRP.
What a shame it's been ignored for so long- will be interesting to see how many corners Daimler cuts with the new one.

Edited January 5, 2018 by balthazar

[ccap41]

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

the Escalade is executed and marketed really well, it is the one vehicle Cadillac gets right and it is a bit of an icon.

You could have just said that. 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

You could have just said that. 

I'm sure it caused a burning sensation in his fingers to type it.

[ccap41]

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

But pick-up owners do not switch to SUVs, they just don't. I'd never buy a Tahoe/Suburban.

Yeah with the super ultra mega quad cabs they have now, I completely agree. Not to say "none" will switch but I think it's a wash between switching to and from trucks. In general, a pickup owner is a pickup owner. 

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm sure it caused a burning sensation in his fingers to type it.

Well, it was buried almost two whole paragraphs deep. lol 

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

Mercedes flagship is the 40-yr old G-wagon- it has the highest MSRP.
What a shame it's been ignored for so long- will be interesting to see how many corners Daimler cuts with the new one.

I don't see them cutting any corners with the new one. I don't know why they would. They did ditch the front live axle though for an independent setup.  

[Cmicasa the Great]

21 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

How's this for crazy... a base XTS V-Sport Platinum (the only trim for V-Sport XTS now) and a CT6 3.0TT Premium Luxury with Super Cruise are right about the same price. 

Their justification was that the XTS VSport has more power I bet. Which is fuckin nuts. The CT6 should have had a VSport powered with the 460HP LT1 from git. Even better would be a full range with a VSeries top end powered by the LT4. At $128K startin, undercuttin the S63AMG by $20K and beatin its HP by 40. I'd be at the Caddy dealership right now with a check

[smk4565]

When you think Cadillac you think Escalade, it has the best reputation of any product they have which is why it is a class leader in sales and the sedans they make are dead in the water.  No image on those sedans.  

To Cmicasa’s point, yes there should be a CT6-V already and I think they held back on the interior, they should have gone way more upscale with it.  $128k for a top end sedan is still too low, unless that is before the options list gets it over $150k.

As far as the G-Wagen goes, the new one looks identical with LED headlights, and they fixed all the technology and ergonomic  issues that resulted from a 1979 platform.  The sales will continue to rise

[ccap41]

The nose on the G looks a little funky. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Other than that, it does look identical. As it should. 

[G. David Felt]

15 hours ago, balthazar said:

Are you saying this happens or doesn't (trading up within brand)?

Sorry it was not clear, pinched nerves in my hips and low back distracting me this week.

Yes it does happen sometimes, but mostly no, you do not find the upgrading in the same badge that I have seen.