2019 Lamborghini Urus Finally Debuts

[William Maley]

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Lamborghini has once again entered the SUV scene with the introduction of Urus at the company's headquarters in Italy tonight.

The Urus is very much a Lamborghini in design. The overall profile is wedge-shaped and features a drastically sloping roofline, angled windows, a fair number of cutouts for cooling in the front, and flared out fenders. Inside, the Urus features a flat-bottom steering wheel and an angled center stack. The starter button is located at the bottom of the center stack. 

Under the hood is a first for Lamborghini - a turbocharged engine. Lamborghini explains the reason they went with turbocharging is low-end torque. This should help the Urus get off the line quickly like Lamboghnini's sports cars. The 4.0L twin-turbo V8 engine produces 650 horsepower and 627 pound-feet of torque. This is paired up with an eight-speed automatic and all-wheel drive. Torque split is 40/60 in normal conditions, but can send 70 percent of power to the front wheels to improve traction or 87 percent to the rear to improve the sporting dynamics. The Urus offers the regular driving modes found on other Lamborghini models (Strada, Sport, Corsa, and Neve (snow)), but also features Terra (off-road) and Sabbia (sand).

Performance figures for the Urus:

• 0-62 mph: 3.6 seconds
• 0-124 mph: 12.8 seconds
• Top Speed: 190 mph

Under the Urus' shell is a heavily reworked version of the Volkswagen Group's MLB platform - underpins the Audi Q7, Bentley Bentayga, and Porsche Cayenne. The Urus will also come with air suspension and rear-wheel steering.

Lamborghini is positioning the Urus as their entry-level model with a base price of roughly $200,000 when it arrives this spring.

Source: Lamborghini
Press Release is on Page 2

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The new Lamborghini Urus: The world’s first Super Sport Utility Vehicle

• Design, performance, driving dynamics and driving emotion – pure Lamborghini DNA
• Suitable for everyday driving in a range of environments
• 4.0 liter V8 twin-turbo engine with 650 hp and 850 Nm of torque for maximum performance
• Acceleration 0-100 km/h in 3.6 seconds and top speed 305 km/h
• 4WD system with active torque vectoring and four-wheel steering for perfect handling
• Carbon ceramic brakes, adaptive air suspension and active roll stabilization for maximum safety and comfort
• Up to six different driving modes + EGO mode available via ‘Tamburo’ driving dynamics selector

Sant'Agata Bolognese, 4 December 2017 – Automobili Lamborghini launches its third model the Lamborghini Urus, the first Super Sport Utility Vehicle, and creates a new niche in the luxury segment with benchmarking power, performance and driving dynamics, unparalleled design, luxury and daily usability.

"The Lamborghini Urus is a visionary approach based on the infusion of Lamborghini DNA into the most versatile vehicle, the SUV. The Urus elevates the SUV to a level not previously possible, the Super SUV. It is a true Lamborghini in terms of design, performance, driving dynamics and emotion as well as drivable every day in a range of environments," says Stefano Domenicali, Automobili Lamborghini Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. "The Urus fits perfectly within the Lamborghini family as a high performance car. It is the culmination of intensive development and passionate skill to create a new breed of bull: a Super SUV that transcends the boundaries of expectations and opens the door to new possibilities, for both our brand and our customers."

The Urus features a 4.0 liter V8 twin-turbo engine delivering 650 hp (478 kW) at 6,000 rpm, maximum 6,800 rpm, and 850 Nm of maximum torque already at 2,250 rpm. With 162.7 hp/l the Urus claims one of the highest specific power outputs in its class and the best weight-to-power ratio at 3,38 kg/hp.

The Urus accelerates from 0-100 km/h in 3.6 seconds, 0-200 km/h in 12,8 seconds and with a top speed of 305 km/h it is the fastest SUV available.

Urus: a multi-faceted personality 

The Lamborghini Urus is as much a luxury SUV as the most powerful, with a super sports car dynamism to be enjoyed by both driver and passengers.

Its low-line coupé styling and commanding road position belie the very comfortable ride, higher ground clearance, and luxurious space within together with the latest technologies. The Urus provides easy driving in the city, maximum comfort during long journeys, thrilling super sports car dynamics on the road and track, and versatile off-road abilities in a range of environments. The Lamborghini Urus has a dual personality: it is multi-dimensional. It can be specified to be as sporty or as elegant as the owner wishes, and can equally be used as a daily luxury drive or provide an exhilarating super sports experience.

Name

As has long been the tradition at Lamborghini, the name Urus is derived from the world of bulls. The Urus, also known as Aurochs, is one of the large, wild ancestors of domestic cattle. The Spanish fighting bull, as bred for the past 500 years, is still very close to the Urus in its appearance.

Power and Performance

Engine

The Lamborghini Urus sports a new front-mounted, 4.0 liter petrol V8 twin-turbo aluminum engine. The choice of a turbo engine, the first in a Lamborghini, reflects the desired usage range of the Urus. Especially in off-road conditions a high level of torque at low revs is necessary and can be guaranteed only by such an engine, providing optimal engine responsiveness and efficiency. Delivering 650 hp (478 kW) at 6,000 rpm, maximum 6,800 rpm and a maximum torque of 850 Nm at 2,250-4,500 rpm, the Urus has a specific power of 162.7 hp/l. With a curb weight lower than 2,200 kg the Urus is the SUV with the best weight-to-power ratio at 3.38 kg/hp.

The Urus accelerates from 0-100 km/h in 3.6 seconds, 0-200 km/h in 12.8 seconds and reaches a top speed of 305 km/h. Braking is no less impressive: the Urus decelerates from 100 km/h to 0 in 33,7 m.

The compact engine optimizes the car's center of gravity through its low-mounted position. With a central turbo charger layout close to the combustion chambers, optimum engine responsiveness is assured. The twin-scroll turbochargers run in parallel, providing maximum power in full-load conditions. This reduces turbo lag and ensures maximum torque and smooth provision of power throughout the torque curve, even at low speeds. Two separate exhaust flows complement the cylinder firing sequence by eliminating cross-interference in the exhaust gas cycle. With a double overhead camshaft and variable valve timing, new cylinder-liner technology reduces weight while ensuring the highest performance from the eight-cylinder engine. Cylinder deactivation reduces fuel consumption for a perfect balance between vehicle performance and efficient engine function.

Transmission and gearbox 

The Urus features an automatic eight-speed gearbox. The compact and efficient electro-hydraulically controlled planetary gearbox is tuned to provide very short low gear ratios and longer high gears. A highly efficient slip-controlled converter lock-up clutch and specially-developed torque converter guarantee a highly responsive engine, with an exceptionally powerful starting ratio for exciting acceleration, and high speed at low engine revs for optimal fuel consumption and emissions. Highly efficient gear braking is also assured.

Lamborghini four-wheel drive and torque vectoring: optimizing driving dynamics

The Lamborghini Urus' four-wheel drive system delivers safe, highly-responsive driving dynamics on every road and surface, in all weather. A Torsen central self-locking differential provides maximum control and agility in all driving conditions, particularly off-road. Torque is split 40/60 to the independent front/rear axle as standard, with a dynamic maximum torque of 70% to the front or 87% to the rear, enhancing traction to the axle with higher ground friction.

The Urus features active torque vectoring via a rear differential, enabling propulsive power to be instantly distributed to each individual wheel for enhanced traction, depending on the driving mode, driving style and the road grip. Torque vectoring also provides additional steering control: less steering effort is required, with enhanced agility allowing higher cornering speeds and a more sporty drive. Yaw motion is controlled, avoiding understeer into corners and tire slip during acceleration. In the driving modes STRADA, TERRA (off-road) and NEVE (snow) torque vectoring reduces understeer for safe and simple driving. In SPORT and CORSA torque vectoring allows the Urus to become more agile with a greater oversteer character: interaction between the four-wheel drive system and ESC manages oversteer to enable a precise and fun drive. In SABBIA (sand) mode, the system is calibrated to guarantee agility and precision on terrains with reduced grip such as on gravel or sand dunes, making it the ideal mode for off-road fun.

Rear-wheel steering

The Lamborghini Urus adopts the rear-wheel steering introduced in the Aventador S over the whole speed range. The rear steering angle varies up to +/- 3.0 degrees, according to vehicle speed and driving mode selected: at low speeds the rear-axle steering angle is opposite to that of the front wheels (counter-phase steering), effectively shortening the wheelbase up to 600 mm for increased agility and a reduced turning circle for increased maneuverability. At high speeds the rear axle steering angle is in the same direction as the front wheels (in-phase steering), elongating the wheelbase up to 600 mm for increased stability and ride comfort as well as optimum driving dynamics.

Lamborghini DNA

The emotive Lamborghini sound and feel

A 360-degree approach to engine, exhaust system and chassis ensures daily usability with the reduction of unwanted mechanical noise, while maintaining the emotive Lamborghini driving experience and inimitable Lamborghini sound.

Depending on the driving mode selected via the Tamburo, the V8 engine has been calibrated to vary the sound and feel of the Urus, from the quietest and most comfortable low-frequency sounds in STRADA mode, to a sportier and more exciting Lamborghini sound and feedback in CORSA. A specially-developed exhaust system also customizes the sound output dependent on engine speed: at high acceleration, the Urus produces a more guttural, sporty sound and chassis feedback.

The Tamburo – Lamborghini driving dynamics control

The Tamburo driving mode selector on the center console controls all dynamic vehicle systems and allows the selection of driving dynamics according to surface conditions or drivers' preference, via STRADA, SPORT and CORSA as well the additional NEVE (snow) mode. As an option, two further off-road settings are offered: TERRA (off-road) and SABBIA (sand).

In STRADA mode the height adapts according to speed to enhance comfort, while in SPORT the Urus lowers to ensure stability and precision at all speeds. In CORSA the vehicle is even more precise and performance oriented with roll at a minimum. In the three off-road modes, NEVE , TERRA and SABBIA higher ground clearance allows obstacles to be safely overcome, with anti-roll bars providing independent asymmetric movement during cornering to ensure optimal traction.

The electromechanical active roll stabilization system is being used for the first time in a Lamborghini. The stabilization system ensures maximum reduction of the roll angle on bumpy roads in both a straight line and around corners through active decoupling of the stabilizer halves, while ensuring the most agile drive and responsive steering.

The Urus' specially-tuned damping system incorporates new damper valves, continually adjusting to different driving conditions: harder when cornering and softer in a straight line. The adaptive damper concept is automatically adjusted to different driving modes through ANIMA, or can be fully customized by the driver via the EGO mode, choosing the required rigidity for a very comfortable ride to an extremely sporty, aggressive setting dependent on driving style and road conditions.

Exterior design

The Urus is undoubtedly a Lamborghini, taking cues from the LM002 as well as the super sports cars that are fundamental to Lamborghini heritage: the Urus has outstanding proportions, adopting the two-thirds body, one-third window ratio of Lamborghini super sports cars.

The Urus is a Lamborghini with luxurious space for up to five occupants. Its short overhangs communicate its strength, muscularity, dynamically assertive character and commanding road position.

The imposing front of the Urus clearly identifies the location of the front-engined power plant within the peaked mound of the bonnet, reminiscent of the Miura and Aventador, and accented by diagonal hood lines, found for the first time on the Countach, that are such a dynamic Lamborghini characteristic. The proud, low front is underlined by the substantial front fender: the Urus is the most powerful SUV available. Large air intakes sporting the hexagonal theme are linked by a low-level front spoiler, further emphasizing the car's aerodynamic efficiency and exceptional performance. The front lights are sleek, slim and very sporty, set in a horizontal position and with LED headlights in the familiar Lamborghini Y shape.

Its distinctive single-line silhouette features a dynamic coupé-style fly line, accented by the frameless doors and emphasizing the typical Lamborghini characteristic of a lower front end. The powerful character line lips upwards around the rear glass windows, dynamically connecting front and rear and emphasizing the cohesive design impression of creation from a single piece. The Y-shaped front air intakes, also a feature of the LM002, are detailed with the Italian flag: the Urus is born and made in Italy.

The low roofline and position of the frameless windows allude to the seating position of driver and passengers low within the car. The sharply-inclined windshield and strongly-angled rear windows with glass-on-glass replacing the C-pillar, are emotive of Lamborghini models including the Huracán and accent the Urus' super sports silhouette. The hexagonal wheel arches at both front and rear are a significant design detail from the LM002 and Countach, housing wheels from 21" to 23": the largest in the segment.

The rear of the Urus sports the complex, powerful lines typical of a Lamborghini, reinforcing the strong, planted character of the car. The roof line broadens at the base of the roof panel in the style of Lamborghini models including the Countach and Murciélago. The substantial rear shoulders support the strongly inclined rear windows, with the entire rear connected by the fender and concurrent black panel housing the air grilles, Lamborghini logo and the Y-shaped taillights. The rear diffuser is inspired by Lamborghini race cars, with integrated double round exhaust pipes.

When viewed from above, the Urus' pronounced front and rear fenders are set off by the slimmer middle of the car, its curvaceous lines referencing a planted physicality redolent of Lamborghini super sports cars. The rear door lines incorporate both concave and convex lines, giving the Urus its pinched waist before dynamic expansion out to its broad, muscular rear.

Aerodynamic optimization

Every surface of the Urus clearly contributes to the car's aerodynamic prowess and its Lamborghini super sports car personality. Form and function work hand in hand within the Lamborghini design: each panel contributes to the car's overall drag coefficient.

The front splitter and very large air intakes ensure optimal air flow in conjunction with the extensive covered areas of the aerodynamically efficient underbody. Aerodynamic blades feature on the outer edges of the rear window, and the floating rear wing, integrated rear spoiler and spoiler lip reduce aerodynamic resistance. An advanced wheelhouse aerodynamic solution with Naca cooling improves and augments front brake cooling to enhance driving dynamics.

Efficient aerodynamics also contribute to the Urus' internal acoustics, improving ride comfort, reducing fuel consumption and emissions while a high downforce increases stability, safety and driving dynamics.

Chassis and suspension

The Urus is the new benchmark for a Super SUV and a true Lamborghini: it delivers best-in-class lightweight technologies and weight-to-power ratio, with innovation in design and engineering to ensure the best possible driving dynamics as well as overall efficiency.

At a curb weight of less than 2,200 kg, Lamborghini's team of designers and R&D engineers focused on weight reduction throughout the car's chassis, with an intelligent materials mix to ensure maximum stiffness for the best possible comfort and handling as well as lower fuel consumption and CO2 emissions. The chassis is a blend of aluminum and steel, with frameless aluminum doors, torsional beams replacing a C-pillar, and cross-members in aluminum contributing to the lightweight Urus, as does the chassis floor in a high-strength steel material. Seats are designed and constructed for lightweight comfort and rims are in forged aluminum.

The front axle with aluminum subframe and suspension-strut support includes specially-designed pivot bearings and wishbone structure. A rear axle with optimized subframe features an aluminum and steel hybrid construction cell. The powertrain mount system has been devised to reduce the effect of engine movement on the chassis, removing uncomfortable chassis vibrations while still delivering a highly sporty feeling through an extremely rigid chassis: a true Lamborghini characteristic. The adaptive air suspension system enables the vehicle to be raised or lowered according to road and driving conditions, with ride height further customizable by the driver via the settings of a Urus-specific controller in the center console: the Tamburo (Drum).

Brakes and wheels

The Urus' braking system is commensurate with its super sports car performance, ensuring high thermal resistance and accommodating frequent and heavy braking, even from high speeds and in extreme conditions such as on track or at high altitude. Carbon Ceramic Brakes (CCB) as standard, are the largest and most powerful available, measuring 440 x 40 mm at the front and 370 x 30 mm at the rear. With virtually no brake fade the system optimizes pedal feel, assuring performance and safety in all conditions and environments.

Wheel options range from 21" to 23", fitted with a range of summer, winter, all-season, all-terrain and sport tires, all especially developed by Pirelli for the Lamborghini Urus and with widths varying between front and rear to enhance stability and sportive driving behavior.

Versatility and usability

The Urus interior

The Urus is as much a luxury SUV as the most powerful, with a super sports car dynamism to be enjoyed by both driver and passengers. The interior's design and finish echoes that of the exterior in terms of unmistakable Lamborghini design, colorways and individuality. Inside, the Urus is as clearly a Lamborghini as it is from outside, with a sporty yet luxurious design and finish.

The Urus embodies the Lamborghini principal that a car's design, power and dynamic capabilities means every driver should feel like a pilot. The Lamborghini Urus is technologically advanced, yet intuitively operable. The driver and passengers are all afforded a low but extremely comfortable super sports car seat position, firmly integrated within the cabin and for the driver, every cockpit control within easy reach. Oriented around the driver, the slim Y design of the dashboard, like double silver wings and connected to the climbing center console, is inspired by the LM002 as well as by current Lamborghini super sports cars. The Lamborghini hexagonal theme echoes throughout the interior, in elements such as air vents and door handles, and even in items such as the cup holders and air bag modules. A multi-function, three-spoke steering wheel incorporates a vibration damper to enhance comfort in all driving conditions. Multifunction switches are intuitively located on the steering wheel to control the Lamborghini Infotainment System (LIS), including car set-up, media, telephone and navigation.

A fully-digital TFT display shows the Urus' main information in an animated 3D representation and is customizable by the driver.

Seating

Its long wheelbase of 3,003 mm and the low seating position of the occupants creates a comfortable and extremely spacious feel. The Urus ensures luxury and roominess for each of its occupants in seats designed specifically for the Urus Super SUV.

The standard front DNA memory sport seats are fully electric, heated and 12-way adjustable. More luxurious, 18-way fully-electric front seats are available as an option, including features such as ventilation and massage. The rear bench seat as standard comes with a movable and folding seat back and ISOFIX fixings. Providing an extremely comfortable five-seat configuration, the ability to fold and move the rear seat offers maximum versatility and increased luggage capacity for daily use. The rear bench seat can be lowered to substantially extend the trunk space from 616 liters to 1.596 liters. As an option in conjunction with the fully-electric front seats, a more exclusive two-seat rear layout can be specified providing exceptional rear passenger comfort while reflecting the Urus' sporty character.

Color and trim

Luxury Italian style and craftsmanship resonate through the Urus. Its ergonomic cabin is replete with high quality materials including the finest leather, Alcantara, aluminum, carbon fiber and wood.

Internally the Urus is specified with a Unicolor leather and trim in either Nero Ade or Grigio Octans and five additional optional colors. Dual-color Bicolor Elegante and Bicolor Sportivo specifications with options of both leather and Alcantara are also available. Stitching options and complementary seat belt, floor mat and carpet colors allow clients to customize their Urus in a more sporty or elegant style as required. The dashboard trim is finished in Piano Black and Brushed Aluminum as standard. Optional finishes are offered in Open Pore wood including a combination with aluminum, and a carbon fiber alternative.

An optional Off-Road Package incorporating the TERRA and SABBIA driving modes, includes specific metal-reinforced bumpers and additional underfloor protection for off-roading in snow, forest or even dune surfing.

Lamborghini Infotainment System III (LIS) and connectivity

The Lamborghini Urus infotainment system reflects its luxurious and daily usability, and comes with advanced connectivity features. Included as standard is an LIS touchscreen infotainment display across two screens, perfectly integrated within the Urus' interior above the center 'Tamburo'. The upper screen is the key interface for entertainment, managing functions such as media, navigation, telephone and car status information. The lower screen provides a keyboard and hand-writing-compatible screen for inputting information and controlling functions such as climate control and seat heating.

The LIS III integrates innovative connected voice control, able to recognize natural-dialogue voice commands to manage functions such as music, telephone calls or send text messages. Included as standard is a phone holder compartment with wireless charging and voice control; a personal memory profile, USB connections, Bluetooth media streaming, DVD player and a sound system. Other optional features include a TV tuner, DAB and CI card reader, head-up display, a Lamborghini smartphone interface and a smart display for rear seat entertainment. Lamborghini Connect is also offered.

The Lamborghini Smartphone Interface (LSI) allows fully integrated connection of iOS (Apple) and Android (Google) smartphones, supporting the Apple CarPlay TM, Android Auto (90% smartphone market coverage) and Baidu-Carlife (China) as standard.

A sound system featuring eight speakers, driven by four channels comes as standard. A high-end Bang & Olufsen Sound System with 3D sound and 1,700 watt output can be specified, with 21 fully active speakers. Produced through close collaboration between Lamborghini, Fraunhofer IIS, and HARMAN, the system creates an immersive, natural 3D sound experience for all Urus occupants, front and rear.

Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS)

The Lamborghini Urus ADAS systems provide a comprehensive level of safety, security and driving assistance on level 2 (SAE scale). A High Beam Assistant automatically fades headlights in and out of high beam mode as required; front and rear parking sensors and cruise control are also included as standard, as is an innovative PreCognition system preventing or mitigating collision. Optional ADAS systems include traffic management systems, top-view camera and a trailer coupling mode.

The Lamborghini Urus features keyless start via the push 'Start' button on the center console, as long as the key is present. Access to the Urus is also granted by touching sensor panels in the doors and tailgate. Personalization settings allow the car to be configured to suit different drivers and to switch easily between up to seven different programmable profiles including seat preferences and EGO driving mode styles, and even Infotainment presetting.

The rear tailgate is electrically operated via a switch on the driver's door, a button on the key or a manual button on the tailgate itself. An optional 'virtual pedal' allows the tailgate to be opened by a kick movement. The tailgate opening angle can be customized by the driver. Easyload Assist, standard on the Urus, allows the height at the rear of the Urus to be lowered for easy loading.

Price and market delivery

The first customers will take delivery of the new Lamborghini Urus in Spring 2018 at suggested retail prices as follows:

• Europe: EUR 171,429.00 (suggested retail price, taxes excluded)
• Italy: EUR 168,852.00 (suggested retail price, taxes excluded)
• UK: GBP 131,500.00 (suggested retail price, taxes excluded)
• USA: USD 200,000.00 (suggested retail price, VAT/GST excluded)
• China: RMB 3,130,000.00 (suggested retail price, taxes included)
• Japan: YEN 25,740,000.00 (suggested retail price, taxes excluded)

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[G. David Felt]

Interesting, so a regular Lambo, add a ton of Steroids and the tiring coupe design for limited rear head room, leg room. Talk about a busy dash, but love the warm brown two tone interior.

I like it, So much better than their cars. Be exciting to see one in person. 

[smk4565]

They will sell them as fast as they can make them, even if it has zero utility (because most SUV buyers don't care about that) and spotty Italian reliability.  I think it is looks pretty good inside and out, it almost looks too conservative for a Lamborghini, but as the entry level car and an SUV I guess it has to be more tame than an Aventator or Countach.

I have to imagine this is the base model also, one day a V12 has to end up in this thing.   And you know Ferrari is coming next and I wonder if there will be some AMG only track focused SUV for those that think a GLE63 is too regular.  And Aston Martin will jump in if they have any money for it.

[Robert Hall]

I expected it to be more radical..odd that it's that 'cheap' (for a Lambo) also..I would think Lamborghini would do something about $400k with front and rear scissor doors...maybe this is to be the entry level SUV ala the Huracan is their entry sports car, and do something more radical to pair w/ the Aventador...

Edited December 5, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

^ Good point. For the money/tier, it should've had something more extreme, like the Navigator concept's single gullwing 'doors'.

[Robert Hall]

Lamborghinis today are supposed to loud, violent, angry robot looking cars that look like they would cut you if touch them..and that catch on fire easily.  This is too tame. 

[smk4565]

On the one hand it is an SUV that does 190 mph, so it isn’t take in that regard and it will stick out a heck of a lot more than Porsche Cayenne.  It just isn’t Lamboghnini wild.  But perhaps this is the volume model and a 2nd crazier SUV will come later with a targa roof or something.

[oldshurst442]

 

Quote

 

The Urus is very much a Lamborghini in design. The overall profile is wedge-shaped and features a drastically sloping roofline, angled windows, a fair number of cutouts for cooling in the front, and flared out fenders.

Under the Urus' shell is a heavily reworked version of the Volkswagen Group's MLB platform - underpins the Audi Q7, Bentley Bentayga, and Porsche Cayenne. The Urus will also come with air suspension and rear-wheel steering.

 

 

 

Quote

 

Performance figures for the Urus:

• 0-62 mph: 3.6 seconds
• 0-124 mph: 12.8 seconds
• Top Speed: 190 mph

 

 

 

These GIFs sum up how I feel about yet another entry from this inescapable automotive trend. 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ocnblu]

I think it's a perfect marriage between the urban and rural sides of Lamborghini.

[Cmicasa the Great]

One thing I will give VW is that THEY KNOW HOW TO USE THE FUCK OUTTA A PLATFORM. Bravo on this vehicle.. If this were a Cadillac there would be no complaints. Seriously.. this is exactly what the XT7 should be.. even if less in cost. This performance specs aren't that  spectacular tho for a Lambo considering the less aero Porsche Cayenne Turbo's capabilities

[oldshurst442]

27 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

One thing I will give VW is that THEY KNOW HOW TO USE THE f@#k OUTTA A PLATFORM. Bravo on this vehicle.. If this were a Cadillac there would be no complaints. Seriously.. this is exactly what the XT7 should be.. even if less in cost. This performance specs aren't that  spectacular tho for a Lambo considering the less aero Porsche Cayenne Turbo's capabilities

Yeah...I had time to sleep on it and mellow out.

VW does know how to use platforms and how to differentiate them awesomely. 

And double yes on Cadillac and any other GM division needing something like this.  Like I said, the SUV/CUV trend has been happenin' for quite awhiles now, why the phoque doesnt GM make something like this?

For Corvette.

For Cadillac.

Too loyalist and purist are we for Corvette? Then why the phoque not a Corvette TUNED SUV for whatever division

GMC...professional grade AND Corvette tuned! 

There is no sell-able market for this for GMC you say?

I say bullshyte! 

We should all look around us. The sedan and coupe enthusiast cars are all but gone. Only a handful remain, yet there is a rise in enthusiast SUVs and CUVs though. And some of these dont and wont offroad yet will spank a Corvette in the straights. Im not too sure about the curvey roads, but I think these SUVs/CUVs hold their own on the curves too...

[Robert Hall]

37 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 Too loyalist and purist are we for Corvette? Then why the phoque not a Corvette TUNED SUV for whatever division

 

A Corvette ZR1 crossover would be cool...and a sedan.  I've wondered before why not turn Corvette into a multi-model brand, like Porsche.  The RWD Corvette C7.  The mid-engined Corvette C8.   A Panamera-like sedan, and a CUV.   Would be a big investment, but it would likely pay for itself if well-marketed and well-executed.  

[Cmicasa the Great]

41 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yeah...I had time to sleep on it and mellow out.

VW does know how to use platforms and how to differentiate them awesomely. 

And double yes on Cadillac and any other GM division needing something like this.  Like I said, the SUV/CUV trend has been happenin' for quite awhiles now, why the phoque doesnt GM make something like this?

For Corvette.

For Cadillac.

Too loyalist and purist are we for Corvette? Then why the phoque not a Corvette TUNED SUV for whatever division

GMC...professional grade AND Corvette tuned! 

There is no sell-able market for this for GMC you say?

I say bullshyte! 

We should all look around us. The sedan and coupe enthusiast cars are all but gone. Only a handful remain, yet there is a rise in enthusiast SUVs and CUVs though. And some of these dont and wont offroad yet will spank a Corvette in the straights. Im not too sure about the curvey roads, but I think these SUVs/CUVs hold their own on the curves too...

I'll say that GMC doesn't need PERFORMANCE like that.. their tuning in terms of performance should be what we are seeing from ZR2 (previously Hummer H3type) with Off-Road prowess. What Ford did with the Raptor is really unnecessary for GM because they have a dedicated SUV/Truck division. Chevy should really stick to what its doing. Their portfolio is really perfect with exception to the Impala and SS not being MERGED into one vehicle on OMEGA or Alpha L. In terms of SUV/CUV/TRUCK they are on point.

I say it again.. as a RATIONAL Corvette enthusiast.. Corvette should be a DIVISION on its own when the Mid-Engine comes out. It is going to be sold next to the C7 Stingray, Grand Sport, Z06, and ZR1.. and in ME form come in a Turbo V6.. Turbo V8.. and Supercharged V8 apparently. WTF not include a RWD based SUV/CUV in that mix?

Cadillac and Buick (Cadillac's Lasalle) should almost be a mirror image of Chevy IMO with exception to the Pick-Ups , but all of their car and SUV/CUV configs. FUCK what brand snobs say about platform sharing. VW Group does it and just hides it thru bullshit. VW Jetta, essentially the Cruze competitor, is used at VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda. 

FROM 2015

 

I have posed this question before to hard core enthusiasts and most always say no.. because of tradition. My thought is that the Corvette is now essentially in Porsche territory in terms of quality, fit and finish.. and obviously performance and tech. Many non-enthusiasts don't even kno that the Corvette is a Chevy. I shit; U not. Most people I talk to who are not enthusiasts think the Corvette is a.. Corvette. They kno the cost is not cheap.. and in reality Chevy is the "every man" brand of GM. It is on par  in terms of perceptional with Ford, Toyota, Nissan, and Honda. My thought is screw tradition. It holds the brand back:

 

1) Porsche is no longer "traditional." The 911 is not the volume car at Porsche.. it is their Flagship. The Corvette is, in many ways, on level with Porsche's Cayman/Boxster to 911s. It should enjoy the autonomy. 

 

2) The fastest car at GM should be the CORVETTE.. the Corvette just shouldn't be a Chevy. The Corvette should be sold thru Cadillac dealers so that its service level will be up to par with its price. As it stands... Chevy dealers do not have the level of service amenities or coddling that is necessary to handle the buyer of a $60-130K sports car. Cadillac does.  But as a bone for Traditionalist.. keep the Vette at Chevy, but separate it within the dealership experience. 

 

3) The Camaro almost makes the Corvette redundant as a sports car at Chevy. The Camaro is on level with the Mustang. It could be a viable Flagship for Chevy at this point especially with the Camaro stretching out all the way to $80,000 for a Z28. Its performance is undeniable. It is no longer the go to for tack heads with mullets or guidos with gold chains. The Camaro is down right "Premium" in its own right

 

4) A revisit to the profitability of a Corvette Brand. The Corvette division is something I've been talking about for years though..

 

It has occurred to me that Chevy, and possibly GM really are pushing for the Camaro to be the Halo car for Chevy these days. If so... is the Corvette finally gonna get the autonomy it deserves as a separate brand, just sold in Chevy, or better yet.. Cadillac dealers?

 

Quite frankly I believe that GM would make very large profits with a Corvette Specific brand in the same vane as Porsche's 911 and Cayenne:

a) Stingray $55K-75K (Base Model 460HP)

 

b) Grand Sport $65K-85K (Upgrade with 550HP)

 

c) Z06 $85-105K (650HP)

 

d) ZR1 $110K-150K Mid-Engined (720HP)

 

e) a yes an ALPHA based Coupe CROSSOVER with a 320HP V6, a 450HP LT1, and a S/C 580HP LT1 as well. 

 

All of this would continue to be sold at a CHEVY dealership in a separate (even if by partitioned wall) part of Dealership with specific/exclusive sales reps and technicians, again better yet would be the Cadillac Dealers being able to

Cadillac would get the a pick 3 of those vehicles.

a) CT7 (based off Stingray) would be a 2seater coupe with a 300HP 2.0LTurbo, optioned with a 440HP TTV6 for the Vseries (vs SLK)

 

b) CT9 (based off Z06 and GS) 2seater with 460HP base, and VSport 580HP with optional "Check the Box" V-series at 650HP

 

c)Cien (CT11) (it along with the Escalade would be the only non Alphanumeric) It would be completely based off mid-engine ZORA and would come out before it. 720HP for coupe and a Roadster at 730HP

 

GM would have a viable competitor in these two divisions to both Porsche and Benz/Audi in almost all categories. Its time and they need to act once the Z06 is in place for the Corvette and the CT9 in place for Cadillac. Properly engineered and leveraged they could use these two brands to usurp the profit reigns from both Toyota and VW.. using the VW strategy as Audi and Porsche are where its actual profits come from (Toyota's profits actually come from, and I'm not BS-ing here, leveraging older platforms under new skins with very little upgrades in terms of engines. (See Camry and Corolla). With Cadillac and a Corvette "semi"division within Chevy, along with GMC and Buick, which are extremely profitable, GM could be what it once was in the pre-90s as far as profits. Cadillac should have a version of the Corvette, perhaps augmented to be a mid-engine car like the ZORA is rumored to be. It is my opinion that Corvette.. as long as it is directly under Chevy's dealership network should not in anyway get a version of the proposed possible ZORA. Cadillac should have a version of the Corvette, perhaps augmented to be a mid-engine car like the ZORA is rumored to be. It is my opinion that Corvette.. as long as it is under Chevy's dealership network should not in anyway get a version of the proposed possible ZORA. 

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442 @Cmicasa the Great @Cubical-aka-Moltar

Perfect time to bring back the GMC Typhoon & Trailblazer SS which is a Corvette based SUV.

Also, time to stop dicking around Cadillac and have a V edition of the Escalade as well as V editions of the XT line.

Love this story from Detroit News about building a Corvette labeled SUV.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/henry-payne/2017/03/27/gm-built-corvette-suv/99676442/

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

@oldshurst442 @Cmicasa the Great @Cubical-aka-Moltar

Perfect time to bring back the GMC Typhoon & Trailblazer SS which is a Corvette based SUV.

Also, time to stop dicking around Cadillac and have a V edition of the Escalade as well as V editions of the XT line.

Love this story from Detroit News about building a Corvette labeled SUV.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/henry-payne/2017/03/27/gm-built-corvette-suv/99676442/

 

And they would sell like hotcakes

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

One thing I will give VW is that THEY KNOW HOW TO USE THE f@#k OUTTA A PLATFORM. Bravo on this vehicle.. If this were a Cadillac there would be no complaints. Seriously.. this is exactly what the XT7 should be.. even if less in cost. This performance specs aren't that  spectacular tho for a Lambo considering the less aero Porsche Cayenne Turbo's capabilities

But Cadillac thinks crossovers should be front wheel drive with a 3.6 V6 as a way to stand out from the turbo 4 Chevy or Buick siblings.  Cadillac lacks the guts or money or both to build something like this.  I have said for years their crossovers should be rear wheel drive, the current XT5 should be on a CTS platform with a 640 hp V8 option and no reason you couldn’t have a CT6 based 3 row crossovers with the same engine or future V8.

[Robert Hall]

38 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But Cadillac thinks crossovers should be front wheel drive with a 3.6 V6 as a way to stand out from the turbo 4 Chevy or Buick siblings.  

The XT5's primary competition, though, are FWD/AWD...(Acura MDX,Lexus RX, Lincoln MKX), so they are being consistent with their market niche. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[G. David Felt]

37 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But Cadillac thinks crossovers should be front wheel drive with a 3.6 V6 as a way to stand out from the turbo 4 Chevy or Buick siblings.  Cadillac lacks the guts or money or both to build something like this.  I have said for years their crossovers should be rear wheel drive, the current XT5 should be on a CTS platform with a 640 hp V8 option and no reason you couldn’t have a CT6 based 3 row crossovers with the same engine or future V8.

Honestly if you look at how many FWD MB, BMW and Audi auto's are sold, It is becoming very clear that unless you are an enthusiast like many are here at C&G, the drive layout means nothing anymore.

You have those that need AWD for the weather of where they live and then regular 2wd for the rest. No more does it matter if it is FWD or RWD for the bulk of buyers.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Actually Smk I agree to a degree.. I just don't think Caddy has the need to go the RWD only route. I think that their CUV roll-out should have started a year before the XT5 debuted. I think that U are correct.. the XT5 should have been a CTS sister with similar length along with an XT3 having similar length to the ATS-L. They both would come in EXACT same configs, engine wise, as the two aforementioned sister cars. But that would be it.. The XT4 and XT6 would be FWD based vehicles.. one sized exactly like the current XT5 and the XT7 a FWD based Enclave upgrade. The Escalade.. would be essentially the XT7 available in a VSport with 150 more HP. This would cover the gambit.. satisfying both enthusiasts like me and regular luxo CUV buyers like my GF or mom. 

[ccap41]

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 I have said for years their crossovers should be rear wheel drive,

There's no point in that though. What are the sales differences between FWD CUVs and RWD CUVs? 

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

The XT5's primary competition, though, are FWD/AWD...(Acura MDX,Lexus RX, Lincoln MKX), so they are being consistent with their market niche. 

Why is that Cadillac’s primary competition?  Mercedes and BMW’s mid size SUVs offer a 600 hp V8 for $100,000.  Cadillac needs to aim higher.  And their sedan business is dead in the water, if they don’t do something soon with SUVs the same will happen there too.

 

10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

There's no point in that though. What are the sales differences between FWD CUVs and RWD CUVs? 

Not sure but Mercedes and BMW charge about $20k more for their midsize SUV than Cadillac or Lexus do for theirs.  I bet Cadillac wished they could get $100k for an XT5 and pocket $15k of profit on it.

[smk4565]

45 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Actually Smk I agree to a degree.. I just don't think Caddy has the need to go the RWD only route. I think that their CUV roll-out should have started a year before the XT5 debuted. I think that U are correct.. the XT5 should have been a CTS sister with similar length along with an XT3 having similar length to the ATS-L. They both would come in EXACT same configs, engine wise, as the two aforementioned sister cars. But that would be it.. The XT4 and XT6 would be FWD based vehicles.. one sized exactly like the current XT5 and the XT7 a FWD based Enclave upgrade. The Escalade.. would be essentially the XT7 available in a VSport with 150 more HP. This would cover the gambit.. satisfying both enthusiasts like me and regular luxo CUV buyers like my GF or mom. 

Cadillac needs only 1 front drive crossover, and that would be an Equinox clone at $34k because at that size and price you aren’t putting more than 270 hp in it and you aren’t going for an enthusiast buyer either.  And they don’t need an Encore size mini crossover because they have GMC and Buick already in the $25-40k range.

Then I agree, ATS-L, CTS, CT6 based SUVs that can go after Porsche, BMW, Jaguar, Alfa Romeo, Mercedes, Range Rover, Maserati, etc. All those guys are running near 500 hp on a rear drive chassis.  

Real quick on the Corvette brand idea, problem is Chevy dealers won’t give the Corvette up and the Corvette Brand would have to be a combo with Cadillac dealers for service and dealership amenity reasons.  

I think a Corvette brand could work, but it won’t happen.  But if you all want a “Corvette” sedan, crossover, mid engine hyper car, and Panamera style hatchback why don’t they build all that under Cadillac?

[ccap41]

19 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Why is that Cadillac’s primary competition?  Mercedes and BMW’s mid size SUVs offer a 600 hp V8 for $100,000.  Cadillac needs to aim higher.  And their sedan business is dead in the water, if they don’t do something soon with SUVs the same will happen there too.

 

Not sure but Mercedes and BMW charge about $20k more for their midsize SUV than Cadillac or Lexus do for theirs.  I bet Cadillac wished they could get $100k for an XT5 and pocket $15k of profit on it.

But sharing the platform already and amortizing costs between their volumes I bet they aren't crying themselves to sleep any time soon. There's no logical reason for them to work another platform for RWD CUVs. They're mommy-mobiles and no good reason to cater to the 1% who want a sporty CUV and battle it out over 1% of a small market already, luxury CUVs costing 60-100k.

13 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

enthusiast buyer either.

How many enthusiast buyers do you think there are?  Of that %, of buyers, how many are in the market for SUVs? Then of that %, how many are looking to spend 60-100k+ on an SUV? 

[oldshurst442]

@Cmicasa the Great

In your post responding top me, I agree with you 99.999999999%. Only minor details that I dont agree with.

 

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

But sharing the platform already and amortizing costs between their volumes I bet they aren't crying themselves to sleep any time soon. There's no logical reason for them to work another platform for RWD CUVs. They're mommy-mobiles and no good reason to cater to the 1% who want a sporty CUV and battle it out over 1% of a small market already, luxury CUVs costing 60-100k.

How many enthusiast buyers do you think there are?  Of that %, of buyers, how many are in the market for SUVs? Then of that %, how many are looking to spend 60-100k+ on an SUV? 

Cadillac already has 2 rear drive platforms, neither of which are generating any sedan sales.  Total waste to not use those for SUVs.

And I think there are a lot of enthusiasts or buyers that prioritize "sport" in their sport utility vehicle, because BMW, Mercedes, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Jaguar/Land Rover, Porsche, Bentley and even Infiniti and Audi are selling them and now Lamborghini is in the game, and Ferrari is going to be next.  

And somewhere in VW headquarters they are swimming in a Scrooge McDuck style money bin with all the cash coming from the Cayenne, Bentayga and the Urus.

 

[Robert Hall]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Why is that Cadillac’s primary competition?  Mercedes and BMW’s mid size SUVs offer a 600 hp V8 for $100,000.  Cadillac needs to aim higher.  And their sedan business is dead in the water, if they don’t do something soon with SUVs the same will happen there too. 

The XT5 seems naturally to be competition with other FWD/AWD V6 CUVs in it's price range--like the MDX, RX, MKX, etc).   I don't see them as competition for the GLE or X5, which offer V8s and performance versions.  The car based FWD/AWD is the high volume end of the niche---RX and MDX are #1 and #2 in luxury CUV/SUV sales (2016).   XT5 wasn't even in the top 10.

http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/street-smarts/best-selling-luxury-suvs-2016-list-article-1.2956170

Edited December 6, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

The XT5 seems naturally to be competition with other FWD/AWD V6 CUVs in it's price range--like the MDX, RX, MKX, etc).   I don't see them as competition for the GLE or X5, which offer V8s and performance versions.  The car based FWD/AWD is the high volume end of the niche---RX and MDX are #1 and #2 in luxury CUV/SUV sales (2016).   XT5 wasn't even in the top 10.

http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/street-smarts/best-selling-luxury-suvs-2016-list-article-1.2956170

The XT5 is geared toward a Lincoln MKX or Lexus RX and that is the problem.   That is like making the CTS an Acura TLX or Lincoln MKZ competitor.  The sell a good number of XT5's because they are cheap, and because it is the only thing people walking into Cadillac dealerships buy, they sold like 600 CTS's last month.

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

RX and MDX are #1 and #2 in luxury CUV/SUV sales (2016).   XT5 wasn't even in the top 10.

How could it have been in the top 10; the XT5 wasn't on sale the whole year in 2016.
April 2016 sales were 304, and the thru-Nov 2016 sales were 32,049.

November 2017 XT5 sales were 5,623 and thru Nov 2017 the total is running 61,424. Basically 200% of 2016.

Guess where the MDX is at in 2017 thru Nov : 43,469. Isn't the XT5 currently running in the #2 spot?
Any other new lux SUV move that quickly up the sales chart?

Bet Mercedes would like to be banking profit on their mid-range CUV on that kind of volume.

[Robert Hall]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

How could it have been in the top 10; the XT5 wasn't on sale the whole year in 2016.
April 2016 sales were 304, and the thru-Nov 2016 sales were 32,049.

November 2017 XT5 sales were 5,623 and thru Nov 2017 the total is running 61,424. Basically 200% of 2016.

Guess where the MDX is at in 2017 thru Nov : 43,469. Isn't the XT5 currently running in the #2 spot?
 

I wasn't sure when they switched from SRX to XT5...couldn't find a list for 2017 YTD sales; SRX wasn't on the 2016 top 10 list either.  Anyway, volume shouldn't be the measure of luxury anyway, right?   

5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The XT5 is geared toward a Lincoln MKX or Lexus RX and that is the problem.   

I don't see that as a problem. That is its niche and price point.  It seems like a competitive model in that segment. It has more in common with them than with the X5 or GLE. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

6 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I wasn't sure when they switched from SRX to XT5...couldn't find a list for 2017 YTD sales; SRX wasn't on the 2016 top 10 list either.  Anyway, volume shouldn't be the measure of luxury anyway, right?   

I don't see that as a problem. That is its niche and price point.  It seems like a competitive model in that segment. It has more in common with them than with the X5 or GLE. 

Of course volume shouldn't be a metric for a luxury- in fact the opposite is actually the case. SRX was definitely slowing in sales toward the end of it's run. Personally I don't care for the vehicle- haven't driven one but I can't get past the huge snout on it. But the XT5 is finding way more buyers than the SRX did. Cadillac got this one right on the money.

RE the X5/GLE - quite frankly I believe the whole 'cross-shopping' thing is vastly overrated. I don't think many consumers approach buying a vehicle by objectively compiling a list of all features, then going out & doing instrumented testing of a field of possibles like the magazines do. XT5 doesn't have to compete with this wheel drive ( the majority are AWD anyway) or that 0-60 as long as it hits the major points that's driving the luxury CUV/SUV segment. Clearly, it does. The average Brand X buyer is not going to seriously consider the Brand Q on average- that works both ways. But all this weight on 'Ooo- it can't corner as hard as an ABC XYZ so it's not as good' is a lot of wishful thinking. No one drives CUVs/SUVs that way.

[G. David Felt]

As has been proven by so many companies that FWD/RWD is not an issue for the Luxury and mid market as we see plenty are sold every year worldwide of the FWD CUV design. If anything AWD is now considered part of the upper Luxury world for those that can afford the higher fuel costs.

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac already has 2 rear drive platforms, neither of which are generating any sedan sales.  Total waste to not use those for SUVs.

And I think there are a lot of enthusiasts or buyers that prioritize "sport" in their sport utility vehicle, because BMW, Mercedes, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Jaguar/Land Rover, Porsche, Bentley and even Infiniti and Audi are selling them and now Lamborghini is in the game, and Ferrari is going to be next.  

And somewhere in VW headquarters they are swimming in a Scrooge McDuck style money bin with all the cash coming from the Cayenne, Bentayga and the Urus.

 

Alpha is also used for the Camaro which does generate some sales. Alpha is used under three vehicles and the ATS is coupe and sedan.

Maybe it wasn't designed for SUV use? From reviews, it's definitely the most superior car platform in each of its respective uses. 

[G. David Felt]

6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Alpha is also used for the Camaro which does generate some sales. Alpha is used under three vehicles and the ATS is coupe and sedan.

Maybe it wasn't designed for SUV use? From reviews, it's definitely the most superior car platform in each of its respective uses. 

I would love to understand the difference between a car platform and a CUV platform. It would make sense to me to have a platform that could cover both from an investment standpoint. I also wonder? 

[ccap41]

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The XT5 is geared toward a Lincoln MKX or Lexus RX and that is the problem.

What about that is a problem? A CUV that's FWD based for moms is right up the market's alley. 

I don't think the two leading luxury SUV sales leaders are complaining about their sales even the slightest... XT5 outsells the X5 by roughly 18,000 units YTD this year. 

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/12/november-2017-ytd-u-s-suv-sales-rankings-top-106-best-selling-suvs-america-every-suv-ranked/

The top 5 luxury SUVs, in sales, are all FWD based and laughing at your statements. The RX might surpass 100,000 sales this year. 

X5 and GLC won't hit 50,000 and the GLE will just pass 50,000 units. 

3 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I would love to understand the difference between a car platform and a CUV platform. It would make sense to me to have a platform that could cover both from an investment standpoint. I also wonder? 

I completely agree! there has to be differences because of the height of the body, stiffness for rollover prevention, AWD systems.. I'm just not sure what exactly. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by ccap41

[G. David Felt]

40 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I would love to understand the difference between a car platform and a CUV platform. It would make sense to me to have a platform that could cover both from an investment standpoint. I also wonder? 

 

40 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I completely agree! there has to be differences because of the height of the body, stiffness for rollover prevention, AWD systems.. I'm just not sure what exactly. 

@Drew Dowdell @William Maley Hey guys, can you possibly shed some light on what ccap41 and I are wondering about? Do you have any insight into this or press releases that I cannot seem to find on GM web site about why the awesome ATS or CTS platform is not able to be used for the CUV products?

I would think it would make total sense to have a universal platform that could cover these two segments much the same way GM trucks and body on frame SUVs use the same platform.