Would you buy an Envision or an SRX?

[riviera74]

For some reason, the Buick Envision is not liked as much as people might think.  Where I live, there are a LOT of Cadillac SRX models on the lots right now, but only about a dozen (new) Envisions.  I have posted a poll to see which CUV you prefer to buy for your next vehicle.  Sure, the SRX has been replaced with the XT5 but there are a lot of lightly used SRX model from 2011-15 at very attractive prices.  The Envisions top out at $50K while even a 2015 SRX can go for about 35K or less.  Please vote and explain your vote in the comments below.

[G. David Felt]

While I love Cadillac, the Envision has way more room inside especially for big guys like me.

[Robert Hall]

Neither... if I were shopping GM, I'd rather have an Enclave. 

[ccap41]

SRX. 

China. 

[riviera74]

21 hours ago, ccap41 said:

SRX. 

China. 

What is wrong with the Envision being built in China? Without China, Buick would have gone the way of Oldsmobile.

[ccap41]

i just don't want my vehicles built in China. 

I also don't care if Buick were to go the way of Oldsmobile as they don't really offer anything I like. They're just re-badged Chevys.. they don't have anything specific to themselves, unless that wagon is coming here. That's cool as sh!t. 

[Drew Dowdell]

10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

i just don't want my vehicles built in China. 

I also don't care if Buick were to go the way of Oldsmobile as they don't really offer anything I like. They're just re-badged Chevys.. they don't have anything specific to themselves, unless that wagon is coming here. That's cool as sh!t. 

Platform sharing does not equal Rebadging

Verano = rebadged Opel Astra

Regal = Rebadged Opel Insignia

Lacrosse = Shared platform with XTS and Impala, but is now the most advanced of the three

Encore = Co-Built Opel Mokka (I don't want to say rebadged, because they were built simultaneously for both markets), that is, they put quiet tuning in from the start knowing it would be a Buick.

Envision = It's own. Yes it is on Delta II platform, but it is different enough that it can't share a line with the Equinox or Terrain.

Enclave = Platform shared with Traverse.

 

That said... I'd still take an SRX over an Envision because V6 and I've long liked the SRX's looks. The Envision is fine as a vehicle but doesn't do anything to plump the front of my jeans. 

[ccap41]

Cruze

Malibu

Impala

Trax

---

Traverse

None of those are something I want.. I just don't like Buick products. They're actually lesser products to me than Lincolns.. At least Lincoln is trying to be a real luxury brand and not just a Mercury-like brand. There isn't much that is making these so different than their Chevy counterparts that they aren't rebadges. Yes, they're done much better than the 90's-00's but they're still almost identical products with different body panels. 

[A Horse With No Name]

22 hours ago, ccap41 said:

SRX. 

China. 

This would disqualify it for me.

27 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Cruze

Malibu

Impala

Trax

---

Traverse

None of those are something I want.. I just don't like Buick products. They're actually lesser products to me than Lincolns.. At least Lincoln is trying to be a real luxury brand and not just a Mercury-like brand. There isn't much that is making these so different than their Chevy counterparts that they aren't rebadges. Yes, they're done much better than the 90's-00's but they're still almost identical products with different body panels. 

I go the other way...I would take a grand Cherokee.  Most capable all wheel drive system, and there are several to chose from in the Grand Cherokee.

GC is probably the only larger American SUV I would actually drop coin on.

And you are not hearing me say this...but the Edge and Explorer are probably under rated and worth a look.  not my personal choice, but one would be a fool not to look at the Ford Motor company products here.

[Drew Dowdell]

34 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Cruze

Malibu

Impala

Trax

---

Traverse

None of those are something I want.. I just don't like Buick products. They're actually lesser products to me than Lincolns.. At least Lincoln is trying to be a real luxury brand and not just a Mercury-like brand. There isn't much that is making these so different than their Chevy counterparts that they aren't rebadges. Yes, they're done much better than the 90's-00's but they're still almost identical products with different body panels. 

Sorry to be blunt, but you're simply wrong.

The Cruze has different engines compared to the now dead Verano, and it always did.  You had your choice of a 1.8 or a 1.4T in the Cruze, while the Verano got the 2.4 and 2.0T.  The Verano got a more advanced suspension.  Push button start with keyless entry. Heated steering wheel. Quiet tuning.... the Verano is vault like inside  The Verano was not just a sticker job.

The new Malibu is a generation ahead of the current Regal, but if anything it is trickle down from the current Regal in terms of powertrain.  The best engine you can get in the Malibu is a de-tuned version of the best engine in the Regal.  The next Regal will come with a V6... something you can't buy in any midsize "family" car from Ford, GM, or Honda.  It has an advanced AWD system and suspension, plus the quiet tuning the Malibu doesn't get.  I don't know where I'd get the idea that a 3.6 powered Regal is just a sticker job of a 1.5T powered Malibu.

I own an Encore and I'd never buy a Trax.  They cheaped out on it way too much.  Buick Quiet tuning, active noise cancellation, and superior materials make all the difference in the world. Without all of that Buick Quiet tuning, you really hear how all the sausage is made under the hood, and it ain't pretty.  But all of that doesn't change the fact that it was designed as the Opel/Buick first and then GM DAT got their hands on it to make a Chevy version. 

Lacrosse - It's on a newer lighter version of the platform than the Impala and XTS, there really is no comparison. It's got more advanced transmissions, AWD, quiet tuning, advanced variable suspension, and the newer version of GM's V6. There really is no case here for it being "just a chevy rebadge". 

The Enclave has all of the things I mentioned above plus an optional variable suspension... it's more like a luxury version of an Acadia Denali than a Traverse even though it shares a body shell with Traverse.  It's also never has to make due with a Turbo-4 as a base engine.

If you want to disqualify Buick in spite of these things, that's fine... but they are exactly the types of things that make a Lincoln a Lincoln instead of a Ford these days. 

Sorry, I realized I was wrong about Ford not having a V6 in a family car... I forgot about the Fusion Sport... just like everyone else has. 

[ccap41]

9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The next Regal will come with a V6... something you can't buy in any midsize "family" car from Ford, GM, or Honda. 

Something you can still get in a Toyota though.  

 

9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

while the Verano got the 2.4 and 2.0T.

This is like the highlight of the lineup. The 2.0T in the Verano was awesome and it could be had with a 6spd. 

Everything else... More blah blah blah than worth talking about. Yeah, they're nice vehicles. That's about it.. Their brand new has much "younger" styling which helps but prior to that they even looked like they're for the 50+ crowd. 

I'm glad you corrected me but still outside of the Verano and Regal all the engines are shared with the same tunes. They do gain AWD, which is neat. But they're the Mercury of Ford. "Meh" is their whole lineup.

Do they have a single vehicle with 300hp or 300tq? Even Lincoln has multiple offerings with that..  

Edited November 21, 2017 by ccap41

[Drew Dowdell]

Buick Regal GS - 310 hp / 282 lb-ft, cylinder deactivation and start/stop.  The 250hp/260tq base engine in the Regal is the top engine in the Malibu, available only when you cross the $30k mark.  Otherwise in the Malibu, you're driving a 160hp/184tq 1.5T.  That seems right to me. 

Buick Lacrosse - 310 hp / 282 lb-ft, cylinder deactivation and start/stop, 8-speed auto (Impala and XTS are still on 6-speeds), Twin-Clutch AWD same as the Focus RS. 

Buick Enclave - 310 hp / 282 lb-ft, cylinder deactivation and start/stop, variable suspension

Buick Encore Sport Touring - gets a different tuned 1.4T with direct injection, boosts torque by 40 lb-ft over a 2,000 rpm range and horsepower by 20.  This engine is not available in the Trax.  As a driver of the original 1.4T, every extra bit of torque offered matters.

That said, I'm not sure why you think Buick is supposed to be directly competing with Lincoln.  Lincoln is supposed to be in Benz/Cadillac territory.  Buick is doing well right where it is... not as expensive as Cadillac, but a lot nicer than Chevy. 

[oldshurst442]

I would choose neither...like Cubical said. If I was buying from GM, I too would rather the Encla-

Hold on, as I read deeper into the thread, I came across the mentioning of this automobile.

If Im buying a family haulin' hatchback type vehicle from GM, I am doing it the Buick Regal Tourx way!

 

 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

41 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I own an Encore and I'd never buy a Trax.  They cheaped out on it way too much.  Buick Quiet tuning, active noise cancellation, and superior materials make all the difference in the world. Without all of that Buick Quiet tuning, you really hear how all the sausage is made under the hood, and it ain't pretty.  But all of that doesn't change the fact that it was designed as the Opel/Buick first and then GM DAT got their hands on it to make a Chevy version. 

Lacrosse - It's on a newer lighter version of the platform than the Impala and XTS, there really is no comparison. It's got more advanced transmissions, AWD, quiet tuning, advanced variable suspension, and the newer version of GM's V6. There really is no case here for it being "just a chevy rebadge". 

 

Sorry, I realized I was wrong about Ford not having a V6 in a family car... I forgot about the Fusion Sport... just like everyone else has. 

Encore is really nice-thought of you the other day when one was parked next to me at Home depot. With a little more power i would seriously consider one.

Lacrosse is probably my favorite large sedan, dollar for dollar...really an under rated car.

Fusion sport is pretty much a V6 Passat, and not in a good sort of way.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Encore is really nice-thought of you the other day when one was parked next to me at Home depot. With a little more power i would seriously consider one.

Lacrosse is probably my favorite large sedan, dollar for dollar...really an under rated car.

Fusion sport is pretty much a V6 Passat, and not in a good sort of way.

I have no problem with a Fusion sport aside from it's name.  It's not particularly sporty, it's just decently fast in a segment with rather mediocre performance.  The Regal GS and Mazda 6 both handle better... the Fusion Sport just goes faster in a straight line.

7 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I would choose neither...like Cubical said. If I was buying from GM, I too would rather the Encla-

Hold on, as I read deeper into the thread, I came across the mentioning of this automobile.

If Im buying a family haulin' hatchback type vehicle from GM, I am doing it the Buick Regal Tourx way!

 

 

 

I'd really love that... but Albert absolutely refuses.  I guess I'll have to cry about it in the GS he wants instead. 

[ccap41]

20 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Buick Regal GS - 310 hp / 282 lb-ft, cylinder deactivation and start/stop.  The 250hp/260tq base engine in the Regal is the top engine in the Malibu, available only when you cross the $30k mark.  Otherwise in the Malibu, you're driving a 160hp/184tq 1.5T.  That seems right to me. 

Buick Lacrosse - 310 hp / 282 lb-ft, cylinder deactivation and start/stop, 8-speed auto (Impala and XTS are still on 6-speeds), Twin-Clutch AWD same as the Focus RS. 

Buick Enclave - 310 hp / 282 lb-ft, cylinder deactivation and start/stop, variable suspension

Buick Encore Sport Touring - gets a different tuned 1.4T with direct injection, boosts torque by 40 lb-ft over a 2,000 rpm range and horsepower by 20.  This engine is not available in the Trax.  As a driver of the original 1.4T, every extra bit of torque offered matters.

That said, I'm not sure why you think Buick is supposed to be directly competing with Lincoln.  Lincoln is supposed to be in Benz/Cadillac territory.  Buick is doing well right where it is... not as expensive as Cadillac, but a lot nicer than Chevy. 

Oh yeah that n/a v6 is plugged into everything.. hello torqueless.. 

Why in the world is the XTS on the 6spd and the Buick get the 8spd??? 

I'm not saying it should be directly competing with Lincoln. They're both of the badge-job styles so they tend to be compared quite often. 

Yep, they're very fancy Chevrolets. 

9 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I would choose neither...like Cubical said. If I was buying from GM, I too would rather the Encla-

Hold on, as I read deeper into the thread, I came across the mentioning of this automobile.

If Im buying a family haulin' hatchback type vehicle from GM, I am doing it the Buick Regal Tourx way!

 

 

 

The one legitimately cool Buick! 

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, ccap41 said:

Oh yeah that n/a v6 is plugged into everything.. hello torqueless.. 

Why in the world is the XTS on the 6spd and the Buick get the 8spd??? 

I'm not saying it should be directly competing with Lincoln. They're both of the badge-job styles so they tend to be compared quite often. 

Yep, they're very fancy Chevrolets. 

Lincolns are very fancy Fords then.

The XTS is dead man walking, they're putting as little money into it as they can till they can push it out the door in 3 years. 

The latest V6 is not torqueless. It's not a turbo V6, but it's better than any Turbo-4 that manufacturers are trying to foist on us these days.  I just had an Acadia SLT for 1000 miles and the engine was great and a big improvement over the outgoing model (which I despised).... but it was saddled with a 6-speed 

[Robert Hall]

Good point about the Regal TourX....I was only thinking CUVs since the thread was about CUVs, but the Regal TourX looks quite tasty.    But knowing myself, I'd go for another Grand Cherokee..;)

[ccap41]

30 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Lincolns are very fancy Fords then.

I'm not disputing that. 

I'm just glad their newest offerings have engines to distinguish themselves and not weak n/a v6's. Everybody has moved away from them for a reason. Okay, it has torque.. as long as you give the engine revs. Not the fanciest of engines to put in a luxury-like branded vehicle.

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, ccap41 said:

I'm not disputing that. 

I'm just glad their newest offerings have engines to distinguish themselves and not weak n/a v6's. Everybody has moved away from them for a reason. Okay, it has torque.. as long as you give the engine revs. Not the fanciest of engines to put in a luxury-like branded vehicle.

Turbos are fancy? 

[ccap41]

Sure as heck are. Effortless torque is absolutely fancy. That's one reason EVs will/are be so nice. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by ccap41

[Drew Dowdell]

18 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Sure as heck are. Effortless torque is absolutely fancy. That's one reason EVs will/are be so nice. 

I wonder what our differences in ages are.... if effortless torque is fancy, my old '81 is the automotive equivalent of Cher in a glitter bath. 

Also... that means that EVs are fancier than any ICE could ever be. 

Joking aside, the torque in the Acadia is plenty strong and you don't need to rev the engine to get it.  That was true with the prior V6, and it was something I harped on them for... but it is no longer the case.

Again, the comparison here isn't Turbo V6es... Spend the same number of dollars as Buick V6 over at Benz, BMW, or even Lexus, and you're getting a Turbo-4 or a less powerful NA V6.  The GLE gets a 302hp NA V6 compared to the Enclave's 310... but Buick isn't even supposed to be competing on that level. 

[ccap41]

Just because others do it doesn't make me like it in a Buick.. Sweet, Benz offers a n/a V6 as well. I don't like that either. That's literally the last Benz with a n/a 6cyl as they know there's greater benefits to a turbo 6. Buick is plastered w/ them. 

It isn't news that a Buick is a bargain brand compared to Benz so I'm not sure why the comparison. Acura offers a hrbrid MDX, Infiniti is in worse shape with an old 3.5 V6 as well. Apparently n/a V6's are a thing in this class. Not my cup-o-tea. 

Sorry, there's just zero appeal in the current Buick lineup. While they look better than they did a few years ago they still have an old people vibe to them and, in my opinion, they don't differentiate themselves from Chevy enough to justify the premium. 

The new GS is sharp as hell though, so there's that. 

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

Personally I'd go SRX. I just prefer Cadillac over everything else except Corvette. 

[G. David Felt]

31 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Personally I'd go SRX. I just prefer Cadillac over everything else except Corvette. 

I normally would too, but the SRX lack of legroom in the rear compared to the Envision makes the difference.

[Cmicasa the Great]

18 hours ago, dfelt said:

I normally would too, but the SRX lack of legroom in the rear compared to the Envision makes the difference.

Just doesn't matter to me.. the legroom..  So much Cadillac could have done that I would with the after market. 

[Drew Dowdell]

On 11/22/2017 at 2:41 PM, Cmicasa the Great said:

Just doesn't matter to me.. the legroom..  So much Cadillac could have done that I would with the after market. 

Exactly! I just like the look so much better.

The Envision is fine for its target market.

[Robert Hall]

On 11/21/2017 at 8:30 PM, dfelt said:

I normally would too, but the SRX lack of legroom in the rear compared to the Envision makes the difference.

I don't the XT5 is much bigger..it's wheelbase is a couple inches longer than the SRX was IIRC...they need a larger Caddy CUV on the Traverse/Enclave wheelbase, I think..XT7? 

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I don't the XT5 is much bigger..it's wheelbase is a couple inches longer than the SRX was IIRC...they need a larger Caddy CUV on the Traverse/Enclave wheelbase, I think..XT7? 

Sure, Cadillac does need a Lambda-sized 3-row crossover since a lot of the luxury marques are going into that market now.  Bring on the XT7.

[smk4565]

SRX because it is a Cadillac vs a Buick, and the SRX has a V6 vs a turbo 4.  And even though the SRX  has some terrible FWD proportions, I still think Cadillac's styling language looks better than Buick's.