GM News: GM Expects To Make A Profit On EVs With the Launch of A New Platform

[surreal1272]

35 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It isn't a "weak excuse" in my book. Exhaust note, intake note and the sound of an engine pulling from 1000rpm to redline is exhilerating and a silent EV or one that sounds like one that dfelt posted just doesn't do the same thing. They may be wicked and insanely quick but they don't give off the same feeling that the rumble of a cammed LS/LT engine does. 

Ever walk through a parking lot minding your own business and you hear some nasty muscle car pull in just loping around at idle with a cam that sound like it could die? Or go to the NHRA Top fuel events where you feel the cars go past in your chest and you need ear protection because they're just that damn loud? Yeah, I get that the silence of EVs have their place and they will be phenomenal daily drivers but they will always be lacking in the noise and literal vibration department. NVH will be too good in them. 

You can make them sound like anything with the correct sound system! 

Maybe I could get a cammed small block sound with an EV.. I just might need a sub woofer somewhere on the exterior.. 

It is a weak excuse given that even ICE cars like the Mustang have sound replicators blaring through your stereo speakers because the engines are so throroughly sound deadened. It’s also weak because the same people who were saying this drove little four banger cars. These days whenever I hear that racket in a parking lot (or down the street from my house on a daily basis), I just wish they’d shut the hell up. 

16 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Maybe only 1% of drivers care what the engine sounds like...99% of drivers just want it to work and the noise to not intrude on the sound system.   More work needs to be done on quieting HVAC fans IMO...the loud noise of AC or heat on full gets old in many cars.. I'm all for maximizing sound deadening--I hate when automakers don't put enough sound deadening with the excuse of saving weight or saving cost.  

Exactly and the 1% does not nor has it ever dictated advancements like this and it’s not going to start today. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

14 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

It is a weak excuse given that even ICE cars like the Mustang have sound replicators blaring through your stereo speakers because the engines are so throroughly sound deadened. It’s also weak because the same people who were saying this drove little four banger cars. These days whenever I hear that racket in a parking lot (or down the street from my house on a daily basis), I just wish they’d shut the hell up. 

It's not weak. Ford makes fake noises in the F150 and the Focus ST/Mustang 2.3 get an enhancement which takes the intake noise and just makes it louder. Nothing fake about the cars. F150 is but I don't really care as that's not even what I'm talking about nor were those other two as my examples were definitely thunderous V8s. But I do love the intake side of things on a 4 pot. Little 4-bangers have a great intake noise. 

Vehicles that sound deaden the engine are cars that an EV would suit perfectly. I'm not arguing that aspect at all. 

You don't like the sound of exhaust on any vehicle? What your favorite V8 drives past you you don't get excited? There isn't a car that could drive past you at full tilt where there may be a supercharger whining as it comes towards you then a screaming V8 exhaust note as it passes like a LS/LT, Hemi, Voodoo? 

[surreal1272]

57 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It's not weak. Ford makes fake noises in the F150 and the Focus ST/Mustang 2.3 get an enhancement which takes the intake noise and just makes it louder. Nothing fake about the cars. F150 is but I don't really care as that's not even what I'm talking about nor were those other two as my examples were definitely thunderous V8s. But I do love the intake side of things on a 4 pot. Little 4-bangers have a great intake noise. 

Vehicles that sound deaden the engine are cars that an EV would suit perfectly. I'm not arguing that aspect at all. 

You don't like the sound of exhaust on any vehicle? What your favorite V8 drives past you you don't get excited? There isn't a car that could drive past you at full tilt where there may be a supercharger whining as it comes towards you then a screaming V8 exhaust note as it passes like a LS/LT, Hemi, Voodoo? 

Oh good grief. You are missing the bigger point here. Regardless of what I like, 99.8% of drivers out there don’t give two $h!s how loud a car is and would rather opt for quiet comfort in this age of loudness (and no I am not talking about just cars here). As such, making an argument about the lack of a V8 growl is not enough to dismiss the many benefits of an EV. It’s that simple. 

 

And most four bangers are not worth listening to unless your into weed eater sounds. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

1% of the new car market is 170K buyers. With all the aftermarket exhaust & mufflers available, and the factory tuning options/efforts done by OEMs, I'm confident 'those that care how it sounds' is far greater than 1%. Seems every amateur new car review vid takes a moment to document exhaust note, too.

[G. David Felt]

Worst noise offense is Harley-Davidson bikes and just about every 4 banger out there where some idiot puts a fart can on it and so the auto barely moves and yet makes a ton of noise causing ear discomfort.

Do not get me wrong, the growl of my SS V8 6.0 Liters is sweet and I love it, but most times, most people want a silent auto to get to and from work or errands and would rather listen to a audio book or music or chat with their friends.

[surreal1272]

13 minutes ago, balthazar said:

1% of the new car market is 170K buyers. With all the aftermarket exhaust & mufflers available, and the factory tuning options/efforts done by OEMs, I'm confident 'those that care how it sounds' is far greater than 1%. Seems every amateur new car review vid takes a moment to document exhaust note, too.

Obviously I’m taking liberty with the numbers here but the fact is that the overwhelming majority do not care about an exhaust note. The sheer number Accords, Camrys, and CUVs sold every year should give that away. 

[balthazar]

By that same token, the vast majority of buyers don't care about Camaros & Corvettes, doesn't mean the choice is not welcome for those who do, does it?

Give this a listen from just 12:10-12:45 ~

 

[surreal1272]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

By that same token, the vast majority of buyers don't care about Camaros & Corvettes, doesn't mean the choice is not welcome for those who do, does it?

Give this a listen from just 12:10-12:45 ~

 

Again, not saying that at all. Why is constantly being misread? My original post was about complainers whining about the lack of engine noise from an EV when you already have a sizable portion of ICE cars that are quiet as a tomb from the inside and lack any emotional involvement from the driver. 

[G. David Felt]

23 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Again, not saying that at all. Why is constantly being misread? My original post was about complainers whining about the lack of engine noise from an EV when you already have a sizable portion of ICE cars that are quiet as a tomb from the inside and lack any emotional involvement from the driver. 

As such, the quiet as a tomb cars will be welcomed by those that bought them, aka camry, etc. as the less maintenance is what these people want. By the auto, drive it or let it self drive and ignore everything else till they get to their destination.

I am willing to bet that you could take all the ICE bland auto's that sell so well and change the Powertrain to EV and no one would notice or care. They might notice that they never have some of the basic maintenance to deal with.

[surreal1272]

Have anything useful to offer @ocnblu or are you going to continue the negative vote parade, all because you were called out for your endless trolling here? Maybe more in BOLD?

 

You know what? Don’t answer. I think I am done with the endless and childish trolling nonsense here. 

[ocnblu]

4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Have anything useful to offer @ocnblu or are you going to continue the negative vote parade, all because you were called out for your endless trolling here? Maybe more in BOLD?

 

You know what? Don’t answer. I think I am done with the endless and childish trolling nonsense here. 

Sometimes the upvoting and downvoting gets excessive around here.  On that we can agree.  We've all done too much of it from time to time.  It's a sign of laziness, basically, when a person doesn't go to the trouble of spelling out their support or opposition for a given comment.

[Robert Hall]

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

 

And most four bangers are not worth listening to unless your into weed eater sounds. 

To me, is interesting how quiet 4 cyl cars have become, though...I remember how lumpy and buzzy 4 cyl cars were when I owned them (80s Fords)... the recent 4cyl rentals (Passat, Fusion, Altima, Sonata, Malibu-2 different generations) I've driven have been almost uniformly smooth and quiet as far as engine noise.. the biggest noise annoyances are tire noise and the HVAC fan noise... 

[G. David Felt]

28 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Sometimes the upvoting and downvoting gets excessive around here.  On that we can agree.  We've all done too much of it from time to time.  It's a sign of laziness, basically, when a person doesn't go to the trouble of spelling out their support or opposition for a given comment.

Yo Willis, why you yelling? 

[ocnblu]

7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Yo Willis, why you yelling? 

Whatchoo talkin' about?   

[oldshurst442]

My wife's 1.6 liter ecoboosted Fusion is almost as quiet as a mouse.

Yes...its surprising why that is. For a  ~3500 pound sedan powered by a measly 1.6 liter with an anemic (for its weight) 180 horsepower or so and not that much more torque numbers as horsepower numbers. Its good. And under full throttle...it aint buzzy either. I wouldnt call it throaty but it aint buzzy like how 4 cylinders use to sound like a decade ago. Especially domestic 4 cylinders. I mean...some Japanese 4 cylinders under full throttle do sound good!

I want my muscle machines to be loud. I want the world to hear them! Yes, inside the car too. That philosophy goes with the fact that I also want my muscle machines to have loud and bright exterior colours.

I want my luxury sedans to be quiet like a library. 

That is the distinction that I wanna make for what kind of loudness I prefer for my cars.

As for EVs...

I know how much noise induction motors make. If Im buying one, or converting an existing ICE car into one...then I have already accepted that what I am about to drive wont got a rumble to it!

But then again...the last time I owned a V8 was in the mid 1990s. It was a tired V8 at that. In that time, Ive bought lame V6s, supercharged V6s, little 4 cylinders...I think its too damned late for me to lament the loss of the growl of a  V8...

 

 

[ocnblu]

Sitting at a red light this morning on the way to work, a 5.0 drove by and made its presence known.  And I was thinking how the V8 engine was in EVERYTHING back in the good days, and the manufacturers weren't afraid to let them sing.  Sure, there was Cadillac with their swift, powerful silence, and Ford for years advertised their LTD as "quieter than a Rolls-Royce", but other than that... we had the '60 Buick in Balthy's endurance film... man that thing's a beauty as it annihilates that track... it just SMASHES those banks flat as a pancake! 

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Oh good grief. You are missing the bigger point here. Regardless of what I like, 99.8% of drivers out there don’t give two $h!s how loud a car is and would rather opt for quiet comfort in this age of loudness (and no I am not talking about just cars here). As such, making an argument about the lack of a V8 growl is not enough to dismiss the many benefits of an EV. It’s that simple. 

 

And most four bangers are not worth listening to unless your into weed eater sounds. 

I. ALREADY. SAID. THAT. 

My only gripe was for performance and enthusiast cars. I have already said as daily drivers(which would be the 99.8%) they are perfect.

You must have never listened to the intake growl of a 4 banger and only hear the shatty exhaust that kids put on them. Huge difference. 

[ccap41]

14 hours ago, dfelt said:

I am willing to bet that you could take all the ICE bland auto's that sell so well and change the Powertrain to EV and no one would notice or care. They might notice that they never have some of the basic maintenance to deal with.

I agree 100%! 

[Drew Dowdell]

17 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I can't think of the last Honda I've ridden in...maybe be a Pilot from about 2007. Are Hondas particularly noisy?     

Maybe it's part of getting older, but I really appreciate smooth and quiet in a vehicle more than noisy... 

The most recent generation of Hondas has majorly skimped on sound deadening material, with the exception of the very latest Accord.  The current Pilot, CR-V, and Civic are terrible for those of us who don't like road and engine noise

My big V8 is very nicely quiet... just a torquey hum from under the hood.

[A Horse With No Name]

10 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 The current Pilot, CR-V, and Civic are terrible....

Nothing much else needs said here, actually.