Ram News: 2017 Ram 1500 EcoDiesels Are Hitting Dealers

[William Maley]

After nearly a year-long hiatus, 2017 Ram 1500s with the EcoDiesel option are beginning to show up on dealer lots. According to Automotive News, some dealers started seeing EcoDiesel models arriving towards the end of last month. Other dealers are still waiting for the EcoDiesel models to show up.

Back in January, the EPA accused Fiat Chrysler Automobiles of violating emission regulations by failing to disclose eight different software programs used in the EcoDiesel. The agency alleged the software allowed Ram 1500s and Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesels to produce excess pollution. Then in May, the Justice Department filed a civil suit against FCA over the software.

FCA has been working with the EPA and California Air Resources Board to try and settle this dispute. The company sent new emissions control software that would be used in the 2017 models to the EPA in May. If approved, FCA would install this software on 2014 to 2016 models. In late July, the EPA gave FCA the ok to begin selling Ram 1500s and Grand Cherokee EcoDiesels with the new software.

It should be noted that FCA began building Ram 1500s with the EcoDiesel back in early July in anticipation of getting the ok. Though it is unclear why FCA waited over two months before shipping them out to dealers.

But this good news may be short lived. A spokeswoman for the EPA told Automotive News that the 2018 models have yet to be certified.

Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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[G. David Felt]

The slow death of Diesel. I suspect once FCA fullfills their engine contract with the supplier, diesel will be gone from the Jeep and low ram lineup. Hybrids will replace them I suspect.

[Drew Dowdell]

33 minutes ago, dfelt said:

The slow death of Diesel. I suspect once FCA fullfills their engine contract with the supplier, diesel will be gone from the Jeep and low ram lineup. Hybrids will replace them I suspect.

FCA is the supplier.   They've owned VMMotori for a few years now.

I imagine a recall is in order for the vehicles already sold.

[Stew]

I can't wait for the Scrambler with the Ecodiesel. 

[William Maley]

15 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

FCA is the supplier.   They've owned VMMotori for a few years now.

I imagine a recall is in order for the vehicles already sold.

and I would be expecting an announcement on that soon.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

FCA is the supplier.   They've owned VMMotori for a few years now.

I imagine a recall is in order for the vehicles already sold.

I understand that, yet with Europe pushing now to pretty much kill off Diesel as well as China, I could see them slowly wind down and close VMMotori. I would have to question if they can recoup R&D costs as they move forward especially after 2020 when we have a much bigger selection of EV's on the market and Hybrids.

1 hour ago, Stew said:

I can't wait for the Scrambler with the Ecodiesel. 

I would not count on it, I think if it comes it will be delayed till they make sure they have their existing 2018 models certified and out the door and even then depending on how things take off over the next couple years in EV / Hybrids, a diesel version could get shelved.

After all GM worked many years on doing a 4.8L Duramax for the Suburban line and then ended up shelving it.

[Miradart]

Given who is running the EPA right now, and his most recent announcement, I expect the 2018 EcoDiesels will be approved once FCA adds the ability for it to burn coal. Haha!!

[smk4565]

They can drop the diesel and put the Wrangler's new 4 cylinder in the Ram.  That will yield more horsepower and probably better gas mileage.  Problem solved.

[balthazar]

Wrangler starts at 3880 lbs, Ram starts at 4520 lbs.
Leaked engine chart is widely believed to be a typo and the upcoming Hurricane 4 has 268 HP, not 368. Same motor in the Alfa is 280HP / 306TRQ. While that's a 'flip' of the rating on the gas V6 Ram (305/269), the turbo neccessary to develop those displacement-deficient numbers is not going to be stingy with the fuel. Ram buyers wanting more power have a bunch of options all better than a 2.0T : 3.0TD brings 420 TRQ to the Ram, gets 28 highway.

Truck buyers like diesels.

[ccap41]

They'd have free gas for the ownership of the vehicle by not paying the premium for the 3.0 diesel. 

[balthazar]

Very true; I've run the numbers before. Option price of the diesel doesn't pay off vs. the gas V6 for about 22 years, IIRC.

Maybe, like EV's, the price of a diesel will come down in a few years.

[Robert Hall]

When I bought my CPO GC in March, there were several CPO diesel '14-15 GCs at the dealer, similar pricing but higher mileage.  I didn't seriously consider the diesel, and after reading various horror stories (catalytic converter failures, etc)  about them on the Jeep forums I'm glad I stuck w/ the Pentstar.  I don't see any advantage to the diesel other than range and that doesn't really matter to me.. 

[ccap41]

37 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Very true; I've run the numbers before. Option price of the diesel doesn't pay off vs. the gas V6 for about 22 years, IIRC.

Maybe, like EV's, the price of a diesel will come down in a few years.

Wow 22 years?!? I do remember doing the math on it a long time ago but I think I was doing the savings over the 5.7 not the 3.6. 

At that time until it pays for itself you genuinely have to just want that engine.

[balthazar]

OK, I was WAY off. Found the math I did :

On 12/18/2015 at 12:04 AM, balthazar said:

I think more people would like to drive diesels, but the 'big picture' costs are something to consider if you plan to own one long term.

Ram 1500 3.0L V6 TD is rated at 22 combined. the 3.6L gas version is rated at 19.

On 12,000 miles/yr, the diesel burns 545 gals, the gas; 631.

Dec 14th national ave for regular : $2.03, diesel : 2.33.

631 gals of 87 = $1280

545 gals of D = $1269

 

Cost of diesel option : $4270 + 500 for trans = $4770. At a savings of $11/yr in fuel costs, the Ram diesel will take 433 years to break even on the bottom line.

 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

OK, I was WAY off. Found the math I did :

 

Should really just express it in miles rather than years.  Your mileage per year is different than mine. 

[frogger]

I thought the Ecodiesel was having a concerning number of engine failures..

 

[Drew Dowdell]

Not that I heard of...

[G. David Felt]

14 minutes ago, frogger said:

I thought the Ecodiesel was having a concerning number of engine failures..

 

You will find plenty of problems with the first generation but that was back in 2014 or so, now they seem to be pretty solid. Do not see anything glaring that is showing up in ecodiesel forums or on the recall threads.

[Scout]

2017s now arriving. Just in time to be discounted and make room for the 2018s. 

[ocnblu]

On 10/9/2017 at 2:40 PM, Miradart said:

Given who is running the EPA right now, and his most recent announcement, I expect the 2018 EcoDiesels will be approved once FCA adds the ability for it to burn coal. Haha!!

Wrong-o Buckaroo.  It is the Tesla Model S, Model 3 and Model X, plus the Datsun Leaf and Chevrolet Bolt that run on coal.

[oldshurst442]

15 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Wrong-o Buckaroo.  It is the Tesla Model S, Model 3 and Model X, plus the Datsun Leaf and Chevrolet Bolt that run on coal.

Maybe where you are living...but not where I am living...

 

 

 

 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Wrong-o Buckaroo.  It is the Tesla Model S, Model 3 and Model X, plus the Datsun Leaf and Chevrolet Bolt that run on coal.

Pretty much not anymore especially where you live as the power is all Natural Gas produced now. Seems to be an abundance of methan back in your state!  

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Maybe where you are living...but not where I am living...

Actually where he lives in Penn State, they burn ZERO coal as all their energy is produced by Natural Gas. They were one of the first states to convert their plants over once they realized the huge NG reserves they were sitting on. Nothing like Farting to produce kWh.  

[ocnblu]

*googles "methan"*

[Robert Hall]

9 hours ago, dfelt said:

Pretty much not anymore especially where you live as the power is all Natural Gas produced now. Seems to be an abundance of methan back in your state!  

Actually where he lives in Penn State, they burn ZERO coal as all their energy is produced by Natural Gas. They were one of the first states to convert their plants over once they realized the huge NG reserves they were sitting on. Nothing like Farting to produce kWh.  

 Nuclear and natural gas mostly here in NE Ohio....

[Stew]

On 10/9/2017 at 12:19 PM, dfelt said:

I understand that, yet with Europe pushing now to pretty much kill off Diesel as well as China, I could see them slowly wind down and close VMMotori. I would have to question if they can recoup R&D costs as they move forward especially after 2020 when we have a much bigger selection of EV's on the market and Hybrids.

I would not count on it, I think if it comes it will be delayed till they make sure they have their existing 2018 models certified and out the door and even then depending on how things take off over the next couple years in EV / Hybrids, a diesel version could get shelved.

After all GM worked many years on doing a 4.8L Duramax for the Suburban line and then ended up shelving it.

It is already verified for the Wrangler and Scrambler.

16 hours ago, frogger said:

I thought the Ecodiesel was having a concerning number of engine failures..

 

No.....

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, Stew said:

It is already verified for the Wrangler and Scrambler.

What is verified can still be changed, we have seen that with the Mazda Diesel that has been promised and verified many times to be yanked at the last minute or delayed repeatedly to address issues.

If FCA finds the cost too high to get a diesel certified, they could just shelve it. Many an automaker has done that.

[Drew Dowdell]

16 hours ago, dfelt said:

Pretty much not anymore especially where you live as the power is all Natural Gas produced now. Seems to be an abundance of methan back in your state!  

Actually where he lives in Penn State, they burn ZERO coal as all their energy is produced by Natural Gas. They were one of the first states to convert their plants over once they realized the huge NG reserves they were sitting on. Nothing like Farting to produce kWh.  

Well.. not quite all are converted yet, there are 17 left in the state... but yes, in Ocn's area, there are no coal plants left. 

An EV plugged in at my house would be powered by Wind. 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Well.. not quite all are converted yet, there are 17 left in the state... but yes, in Ocn's area, there are no coal plants left. 

An EV plugged in at my house would be powered by Wind. 

Cool update, goot to know as the last I had read was the state was fully converted, but guess it makes sense depending on cost when they compete coal contracts and then convert.

[Stew]

On 10/11/2017 at 1:30 PM, dfelt said:

What is verified can still be changed, we have seen that with the Mazda Diesel that has been promised and verified many times to be yanked at the last minute or delayed repeatedly to address issues.

If FCA finds the cost too high to get a diesel certified, they could just shelve it. Many an automaker has done that.

I don't think it will be a problem at all.  People have been clamoring for it and all indications and everything from FCA shows it coming.  mazda was always iffy with bringing diesels here. 

[G. David Felt]

33 minutes ago, Stew said:

I don't think it will be a problem at all.  People have been clamoring for it and all indications and everything from FCA shows it coming.  mazda was always iffy with bringing diesels here. 

I understand, I will take the wait and see, believe it when I see it on the lot. FCA has created that promise the sky and pull it last minute as they have done with auto updates, complete new models, etc. A little skeptical if FCA can deliver beyond marketing hype.

[ccap41]

What kind of gains can be had with an aftermarket tune on these guys?  With it being a turbo diesel I assume there are some pretty stupid gains. I bet a tuned Ram 1500 diesel is a pretty kick ass daily driver. 

[ccap41]

Seems like a fairly conservative tune as it seems to be a "canned" tune but a simple air filter and tube change and a cat-back exhaust had some pretty awesome gains. 37whp and 46wtq gains along with 2.66mpg increase. 

http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/expert-advice/2014-2016-ram-1500-ecodiesel-power-and-mpg-upgrades/

 

[G. David Felt]

47 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

What kind of gains can be had with an aftermarket tune on these guys?  With it being a turbo diesel I assume there are some pretty stupid gains. I bet a tuned Ram 1500 diesel is a pretty kick ass daily driver. 

Depends on what you want, some great tuning modules that allow you to tune for MPG or Power or somewhere inbetween. 

I can say a tune on my Trailblazer SS for power made it crazy but also drink gas like crazy. Tune for MPG was great but talk about a lack of performance. Instead I went with a fine tune in the middle, got a bit more power and solid Torque lockup with keeping a respectable MPG.

MPG around town is 12mpg Highway cruising I can easily hit 28 and sometimes even 30.