Tesla Model 3 Production Has Some 'Bottlenecks'

[ccap41]

Cold and heat are now out-of-the-norm scenarios, where EVs lose between 30-50% of their estimated range? Gimme the one that has a gasoline generator. 

[Drew Dowdell]

23 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Cold and heat are now out-of-the-norm scenarios, where EVs lose between 30-50% of their estimated range? Gimme the one that has a gasoline generator. 

You've already stated you are too far south to really need snow tires, but too far north to never see snow.  You're going to be a lot warmer than in Chicago which is where that range loss of 50% was documented at constant 0 degrees fahrenheit temps.  The Bolt article you cited was of a guy who, even in his own article, admitted that he had the EV configured wrong.. (he had the hill reserve switched on).   You'll note that in neither situation did the driver mention running out of juice and needing a tow.  Chicago has lots of chargers around.... that Tesla driver would be fine.

... and you'd be fine too.

Until you can learn that you must think differently however, you will be stuck on this mindset and we'll eventually have to start posting this in response to your posts on EVs.

 

 

 

[G. David Felt]

23 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Cold and heat are now out-of-the-norm scenarios, where EVs lose between 30-50% of their estimated range? Gimme the one that has a gasoline generator. 

10 years before you see even an extreme loss of 10% battery capacity. Heating and cooling are also very efficient now in EV auto's and affect the battery capacity at no more than 10% except for extreme places like Death Valley, maybe all of Arizona on a 105+ day or extreme to the north. 

Engineering has pretty much removed all these excuses you bring up. Tesla and GM even Nissan have tested their EV's in extreme temps to make sure minimal battery loss of power due to Heating and cooling or age.

[ccap41]

13 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You've already stated you are too far south to really need snow tires, but too far north to never see snow.  You're going to be a lot warmer than in Chicago which is where that range loss of 50% was documented at constant 0 degrees fahrenheit temps.  The Bolt article you cited was of a guy who, even in his own article, admitted that he had the EV configured wrong.. (he had the hill reserve switched on).   You'll note that in neither situation did the driver mention running out of juice and needing a tow.  Chicago has lots of chargers around.... that Tesla driver would be fine.

... and you'd be fine too.

Until you can learn that you must think differently however, you will be stuck on this mindset and we'll eventually have to start posting this in response to your posts on EVs.

 

LOL @ ^ 

 

I said we don't get enough snow for winter tires. We will get 7-10 days at a time in single digits-teens temps. It definitely gets plenty cold to lose range..because anything under like 50 you start losing range but much less extreme. 

When he reconfigured it, it jumped 10 miles. 154/238 = still only 64.7% of your supposed range. 

Well, when you go out and put your money where your mouth is, all you and deflt have is a bunch of fanboyisms... 

16 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Engineering has pretty much removed all these excuses you bring up. Tesla and GM even Nissan have tested their EV's in extreme temps to make sure minimal battery loss of power due to Heating and cooling or age.

Find a factual argument showing me a zero to 10% loss for the cold then. THAT'S the biggest drop off, cold. Heat isn't so much, but it's there. Whether it's just having to crank the A/C up to 10 or not, your range is decreased.

I've already posted links to owners of Teslas and a Bolt review stating, what I would consider, a massive loss of range. I get worse mileage in the winter in my car but I have never lost 50% range or had my fuel mileage cut in half. 

[Drew Dowdell]

25 minutes ago, dfelt said:

10 years before you see even an extreme loss of 10% battery capacity. Heating and cooling are also very efficient now in EV auto's and affect the battery capacity at no more than 10% except for extreme places like Death Valley, maybe all of Arizona on a 105+ day or extreme to the north. 

Engineering has pretty much removed all these excuses you bring up. Tesla and GM even Nissan have tested their EV's in extreme temps to make sure minimal battery loss of power due to Heating and cooling or age.

He's talking about the temporary loss of range due to extreme heat or cold.  In extreme temperatures, the Tesla, Bolt, Volt (and I'm sure others), not only have to climate control the cabin, they also have to climate control the battery.  That takes energy to do and reduces range.   The range loss is temporary and is not an overall loss of battery capacity, it is just that more of the energy from the battery is being used to keep the battery warm/cool.

He is correct that this happens, but it still isn't that big of a deal unless he's driving cross country, in Canada, during winter. 

[ccap41]

Yeah definitely not talking about overall capacity of the battery, sorry I didn't catch that in my response. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Seems the Tesla 3 Forum fans are also very disappointed in the Supercharger lack of with the Tesla 3.

Per Tesla:

Standard Battery

• Range: 220 miles (EPA estimated)
• Supercharging rate: 130 miles of range per 30 minutes
• Home charging rate: 30 miles of range per hour (240V outlet, 32A)

Long Range Battery - $9,000

• Range: 310 miles
• Supercharging rate: 170 miles of range per 30 minutes
• Home charging rate: 37 miles of range per hour (240V outlet, 40A)

Yet it seems many are wondering why and the answer is very clear, cost, warranty, etc. Your not paying for the S class of Tesla, your paying for the 3 class of low mass produced Tesla. 

The Average Joe, nothing special.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/slower-supercharging-on-model-3.94934/

Plenty of interesting reads:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/forums/model-3.137/

Seems some are very concerned even among the faithful about the lack of manual controls and the single screen.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/is-a-lack-of-instrumentation-dangerous.95539/

Yet move to the Real Tesla Site and I am happy to see many have questioned why the Tesla 3 does NOT have HUD. Seem I am not the only one that has concerns with the single screen that is touch only and takes your eyes off the road.

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/tesla-model-3

I can't wait for the back peddling from the CUE haters

[Drew Dowdell]

40 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Well, when you go out and put your money where your mouth is, all you and deflt have is a bunch of fanboyisms... 

I plan to someday.  As I've stated before, there isn't an EV option that works for my needs except for Tesla (AWD = required), and I can't afford one of those right now.

There is a big difference between saying "this won't work for me" and "this won't work for most/all drivers".... the latter is the impression you give in your arguments. 

[surreal1272]

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

I plan to someday.  As I've stated before, there isn't an EV option that works for my needs except for Tesla (AWD = required), and I can't afford one of those right now.

There is a big difference between saying "this won't work for me" and "this won't work for most/all drivers".... the latter is the impression you give in your arguments. 

And by his logic, he is just pushing the opposite of fanboysim since he also has no practical experience with it. 

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

10 years before you see even an extreme loss of 10% battery capacity. Heating and cooling are also very efficient now in EV auto's and affect the battery capacity at no more than 10% except for extreme places like Death Valley, maybe all of Arizona on a 105+ day or extreme to the north. 

Engineering has pretty much removed all these excuses you bring up. Tesla and GM even Nissan have tested their EV's in extreme temps to make sure minimal battery loss of power due to Heating and cooling or age.

I saw plenty of Leafs (Leaves?) and Teslas in the Phoenix area...people out driving them on 115+ degree days, and they weren't creeping along at 10 mph either...

[ccap41]

58 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I plan to someday.  As I've stated before, there isn't an EV option that works for my needs except for Tesla (AWD = required), and I can't afford one of those right now.

There is a big difference between saying "this won't work for me" and "this won't work for most/all drivers".... the latter is the impression you give in your arguments. 

AWD isn't required. snow tires. Or are you buying it for the "what if" you get too much snow..?   Snow tires on a FWD car are better than all season tires on an AWD car for snowy/slippery conditions. 

I literally give examples of distances of me to charging stations and have said multiple times that if my infrastructure around me was better it would be more viable. Until then it's basically a charge at home or not at all and I just don't want that. 

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

And by his logic, he is just pushing the opposite of fanboysim since he also has no practical experience with it. 

Rationalism? Giving legitimate reasons as to why an EV isn't practical for everybody?  I'm not just bull$h!ting lies.

[surreal1272]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

AWD isn't required. snow tires. Or are you buying it for the "what if" you get too much snow..?   Snow tires on a FWD car are better than all season tires on an AWD car for snowy/slippery conditions. 

I literally give examples of distances of me to charging stations and have said multiple times that if my infrastructure around me was better it would be more viable. Until then it's basically a charge at home or not at all and I just don't want that. 

Rationalism? Giving legitimate reasons as to why an EV isn't practical for everybody?  I'm not just bull$h!ting lies.

To extent, you most certainly are and Drew has illustrated that point to a T. Your “legitimate reasons” come off as excuses to everyone else. 

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I saw plenty of Leafs (Leaves?) and Teslas in the Phoenix area...people out driving them on 115+ degree days, and they weren't creeping along at 10 mph either...

Still see those everyday here. The heat clearly isn’t that big of an issue like some here are making it out to be. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, ccap41 said:

AWD isn't required. snow tires. Or are you buying it for the "what if" you get too much snow..?   Snow tires on a FWD car are better than all season tires on an AWD car for snowy/slippery conditions. 

I literally give examples of distances of me to charging stations and have said multiple times that if my infrastructure around me was better it would be more viable. Until then it's basically a charge at home or not at all and I just don't want that. 

I put snow tires on my AWD vehicles... there's that.

I have a 20 to 25 degree incline to get out of my driveway. Snow and Ice aren't "what-if" scenarios for me, but when. 

[G. David Felt]

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

AWD isn't required. snow tires. Or are you buying it for the "what if" you get too much snow..?   Snow tires on a FWD car are better than all season tires on an AWD car for snowy/slippery conditions. 

I literally give examples of distances of me to charging stations and have said multiple times that if my infrastructure around me was better it would be more viable. Until then it's basically a charge at home or not at all and I just don't want that. 

Yes you say lack of charging spots and yet we have found them within miles of your area. Also you say you do not want to charge at home and yet that does not stop a person in your house from being able to own a Bolt or Tesla and charge overnight always having a full charge so a decent 200+ miles of range more than you have stated you drive in a day.

[ccap41]

Bullsh!t you have. there's zero in my town, closest is 20 miles away at a city hall to a neighboring city. that's nowhere near convenient in any plausible way. 

When have I ever stated that I do not WANT to charge at home? That doesn't even make sense. If I owned a Volt, that's the only place I would charge it. 

12 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I put snow tires on my AWD vehicles... there's that.

I have a 20 to 25 degree incline to get out of my driveway. Snow and Ice aren't "what-if" scenarios for me, but when. 

I'm impressed that you're the 1% that legitimately needs an AWD setup. 

I bet that's absolute hell getting out of when it's real nasty... 

[ccap41]

14 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

To extent, you most certainly are and Drew has illustrated that point to a T. Your “legitimate reasons” come off as excuses to everyone else.

I think you might have missed that I did say they aren't practical for everybody. I didn't say they weren't practical for everybody. Some people, they're great. Some, not so much. 

[frogger]

I have the opposite problem, a 20-25 degree incline getting up the south exposure driveway in the evening.  No AWD, I street park when I get home in the evening and whatever the sun melted onto my driveway freezed up again at dusk.

 

 

 

[surreal1272]

46 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I think you might have missed that I did say they aren't practical for everybody. I didn't say they weren't practical for everybody. Some people, they're great. Some, not so much. 

I missed nothing and stand by my point. 

[G. David Felt]

Seems Reuters Story is reporting the the core of the Tesla 3 bottleneck is battery production issues where they have not fully automated the building of the batteries and some implication that maybe some engine work too since both the Engines and batteries are assembled at the GigaFactory.

On 10/12/2017 at 12:42 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

I put snow tires on my AWD vehicles... there's that.

I have a 20 to 25 degree incline to get out of my driveway. Snow and Ice aren't "what-if" scenarios for me, but when. 

Dawned on me that this is pretty much all of the greater Seattle Area as to why so many auto's here are AWD. You are always going up or down some place around here. Hills are murder on a snowy day.

[ocnblu]

Engines?  What "engines"?

[Robert Hall]

9 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Engines?  What "engines"?

Motors.  Electric motors

[ocnblu]

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Motors.  Electric motors

Yeah, I was like

[G. David Felt]

18 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Engines?  What "engines"?

Electric Engine or Electric Motor, same thing.

[ocnblu]

5 hours ago, dfelt said:

Electric Engine or Electric Motor, same thing.

Not in English.

[Robert Hall]

6 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Not in English.

Yes in English.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine

Engine: a machine with moving parts that converts power into motion.

synonyms:

motor, machine, mechanism;  jet, turbojet, turboprop, turbofan, turbine, generator "a power-generating engine"

Edited November 1, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[oldshurst442]

And to boot...

the word engine...

(not an engine powered by words...)

But the word "engine"

is a word rooted in two different languages...

From the same wiki link as above...

 

Quote

 

Terminology

The word engine derives from Old French engin, from the Latin ingenium–the root of the word ingenious.

 

 

The word engine in other words...is not a pure English word...like most English words...making this turn of discussions concerning the  English language and the definitions of very very ironic...

And the word "ironic" is another word rooted in another language. Greek this time. Creating another ironic moment when a Greek descendant is pointing out ironies...

 

SHYTE!

This post did not make the 3-word rule that @ocnblu wants to muzzle me with...

Oh well...better luck next time...I guess!

Edited November 2, 2017 by oldshurst442

[ocnblu]

Still pleading with the gods to make it so.