August 2017: Mercedes-Benz USA

[A Horse With No Name]

On 9/2/2017 at 9:55 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

ANYWAY....

 

Because what happened in 1962, 1973 and 1984 is entirely relevant for what is happening right now and we should slut shame Cadillac forever just because they are an American company with a name that starts with the letter C.

On 9/3/2017 at 10:39 AM, balthazar said:

Kudos; Mercedes (almost) matched the top speed of a Chrysler built 15 years EARLIER.

Because every grey haired 70 something couple that bought one wanted to get home from the country club real fast to get it on...I am sure that was high on buyers priority list for a Luxury car.

On 9/2/2017 at 9:40 PM, oldshurst442 said:

@smk4565

You are  confusing the success of these cars and causing a ruckus in North America with M-B....

M-B had NO such success in the 1990s...

I love me some e36 M3!

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Hold on.. I'm never one to defend a Japanese car, but have U ever driven an NSX.. in particular this NSX pictured? I did.. a few times back in my younger days back to back with the 300ZX, RX7, Supra Turbo, and my C4 LT1.. and let me tell U.. the car was no slouch. In the end scenario the engine kicked in up in the rev and was very well balanced even against my torque havin Vette and the Rotary RX7 

I never drove an NSX, but it was $75,000 in 90s money for a 270 hp version of the Accord V6.    More money than a Porsche 911 and nearly double the price of a Corvette, even though the C4 Corvette wasn't that good, it was still faster at half the price.  Nothing with an Accord engine is worth 911 money.

[oldshurst442]

34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I never drove an NSX, but it was $75,000 in 90s money for a 270 hp version of the Accord V6.    More money than a Porsche 911 and nearly double the price of a Corvette, even though the C4 Corvette wasn't that good, it was still faster at half the price.  Nothing with an Accord engine is worth 911 money.

More like the NSΧ V6 became the basis for the future  V6 for the Accord as when the NSX came out, the Accord only came in 4 cylinder flavour.

The Legend only came with a V6...although shared some features with the NSΧ, it wasnt exactly a direct relationship...

Later 4 cylinder engines from Honda/Acura shared many NSX V6 traits.

The NSX V6 had a lot of "firsts" going for it.

The car itself also.

The list is long.

If you care enough to learn...maybe you should take the time to read up on the NSX...it will surprise you how advanced the engine and the car itself was...

And if you dont want to know and If you havent already understood by now why the 1st generation NSΧ is a highly regarded car, then you will never understand...therefore it is hopeless for me to continue...

PS: There is a reason why Acura and Lexus were highly regarded then and why Lexus is still ranked high today....

And while you shyte on Cadillac, PLEASE BE HONEST (WITH YOURSELF) AND REALIZE THAT BMW, AUDI AND MERCEDES WERE JUST AS LAUGHED AT AS CADILLAC WAS!

 Only EUROSNOBS DID NOT LAUGH AT GERMAN CARS...BUT OTHERS IN THE KNOW OF WHAT WAS GOING ON...WERENT GONNA TOUCH A GERMAN CAR WITH A 10 FT. POLE!

 

FOR THE LAST TIME

There is a reason why these Japanese cars are legendary today and why the Japanese have a foot in the luxury market today...

Hint:

It aint because Mercedes-Benz was a powerful luxury car maker...

[oldshurst442]

Also...

When the Japanese got serious on conquering the North American market...the shyte got real...really fast.

Exterior body panel tolerances and interior tolerances were perfected by them and were usually extremely tight.

Please...I hope you dont think Mercedes Benz manufacturing in the 1980s and the 1990s was as tight as the Japanese was...

And when we ( @balthazar , @Drew Dowdell, @Cmicasa the Great, @surreal1272) say that  MercedesBenz was NOT a luxury car maker, its because we know that since their cars over in Europe were Taxis and mainstream sedans and over here were just slabbed with leather and priced sky high...we know that everything regarding luxury was just skimped on by M-B JUST BECAUSE those "luxury cars" were NOT really luxury cars...

Cheap ass interior plastics and shoddy fit and finish....

Why?

mainstream market vehicle in Europe. Eurosnob-self hating Americans were bamboozled with a high price tag.

Wide gaps in body panels.

Why?

mainstream market vehicle in Europe therefore the need to improve upon that was not necessary. It was more necessary and cheaper to bamboozle Eurosnob-self hating Americans with a high price tag.

Why do you think the Japanese saw a need to go upscale for?

Hint:

It aint because Mercedes-Benz was highly regarded as a luxury car maker in the 1980s...

Result:

Try getting people off of their Toyotas and Lexus cars in 2017...

These people wont buy American...but wont buy German either! In fact...these people will buy American WAAAAAY before they buy German!

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

4 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I love me some e36 M3!

I have a personal vendetta against this car...any E36 3 Series.

When it first came out, I liked it!

In fact...I was soooooo into this shyte movie BECAUSE of the E36 (I will always be a HUUUUGE Charlie Sheen fan though..regardless if he is a tiger-HIV infested blood "winner"! )

But my Eurosnob friends soured me big time regarding Bimmers!

To this day....Im still struggling in accepting BMW in my heart!

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Also...

When the Japanese got serious on conquering the North American market...the shyte got real...really fast.

Exterior body panel tolerances and interior tolerances were perfected by them and were usually extremely tight.

Please...I hope you dont think Mercedes Benz manufacturing in the 1980s and the 1990s was as tight as the Japanese was...

And when we ( @balthazar , @Drew Dowdell, @Cmicasa the Great, @surreal1272) say that  MercedesBenz was NOT a luxury car maker, its because we know that since their cars over in Europe were Taxis and mainstream sedans and over here were just slabbed with leather and priced sky high...we know that everything regarding luxury was just skimped on by M-B JUST BECAUSE those "luxury cars" were NOT really luxury cars...

Cheap ass interior plastics and shoddy fit and finish....

Why?

mainstream market vehicle in Europe. Eurosnob-self hating Americans were bamboozled with a high price tag.

Wide gaps in body panels.

Why?

mainstream market vehicle in Europe therefore the need to improve upon that was not necessary. It was more necessary and cheaper to bamboozle Eurosnob-self hating Americans with a high price tag.

Why do you think the Japanese saw a need to go upscale for?

Hint:

It aint because Mercedes-Benz was highly regarded as a luxury car maker in the 1980s...

Result:

Try getting people off of their Toyotas and Lexus cars in 2017...

These people wont buy American...but wont buy German either! In fact...these people will buy American WAAAAAY before they buy German!

 

When Toyota decided to launch the Lexus brand, the basis was Mercedes-Benz.  That was know as the benchmark luxury car of the 80s, they used surveys of what Mercedes owners found most important in their purchase decisions, they took the LS400 to the Autobahn, the whole point of the project was to out-Mercedes, Mercedes.

Where Lexus has done well is quality and reliability, they are the best in reliability and that is what they built their reputation on.   The reason Lexus took a lot of business off American luxury car companies, is the same reason Toyota took business off Chevy and Ford, reliability. 

[smk4565]

7 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Looking at the dimensions.. I have to say that the XT5 plays in the bath of both the GLC and GLE.. is Benz rapes its customers on price.. and U seem to love it.. just make sure they use Astroglide.. so they don't rip and tear.

XT5  190″ L x 75″ W x 66″ H

GLC 183-186″ L x 74″ W x 63-65″ H

GLE 189-190″ L x 76″ W x 71″ H

That is my point, the XT5 and GLE have the same length and width, it is the same footprint.    The Equinox is 183" x 73" x 65"  which is pretty spot on to a GLC, and I imagine the Cadillac XT4 will be pretty spot on size wise to the Equinox.  So the XT4 will be sized identical to a GLC, but they can't price it like a GLC, because the XT5 is priced there, so that forces XT4 downmarket to the price of the sub-compact euros.

Benz isn't raping anyone on price, they sell a small SUV at the price range of a C-class, and a mid-size SUV at the price of an E-class.  I don't see Cadillac selling the CTS at $38,950 so it is E-class size at C-class prices, that was a complaint for years by many here.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

When Toyota decided to launch the Lexus brand, the basis was Mercedes-Benz.  That was know as the benchmark luxury car of the 80s, they used surveys of what Mercedes owners found most important in their purchase decisions, they took the LS400 to the Autobahn, the whole point of the project was to out-Mercedes, Mercedes.

Where Lexus has done well is quality and reliability, they are the best in reliability and that is what they built their reputation on.   The reason Lexus took a lot of business off American luxury car companies, is the same reason Toyota took business off Chevy and Ford, reliability. 

You double talk...

In the first paragraph...you make it seem like its a privilege to out Mercedes, Mercedes.

In the second paragraph...you wanna insult Chevy and Ford...

The truth of the matter is that Lexus and Acura and Infiniti and the still born Amati from Mazda was to out do Lincoln and Cadillac...

Why else do you think that Acura, Lexus and Infiniti are brands ONLY SOLD IN NORTH AMERICA...

In the rest of the world...Mercedes Benz cars are taxis and mainstream sedans...The Japanese want to sell LUXURY CARS...its in the USA that luxury cars are bought...

This is the 1980s and 1990s...globalization has JUST started...the money transfer and jobs are not yet at a world level...the money is still in the USA...

Lexus copied M-B's look ONLY to be more accepted in the North American market in a design language that would seem accepted in North America...nothing to do with M-B and its image...

Not the first time Toyota does this for North America...

Looks like a Mustang to sell to Americans that would consider a sporty car from Japan...

The formula worked so they did the same thing with their flagship luxury car...

Remember that this is a 1976 Celica

The Mustang had its Mustang II suit on...the Trans Am was the big pony car...

The looks of the cars had nothing to do with who was on top...only pure marketing design in which design language would be more attractive to the North American buyer.

 

Acura did the NSX which INSTANTLY got them accepted

Infiniti is STILL struggling to get wide acceptance in their VISUAL design language.

SMK...The Lexus LS would be top dog in North America...along with the Fleetwood and Town Car through out the 1990s...

NOT MERCEDES BENZ...

I dont know why you are so forgetful....you  choose to wear rose coloured glasses...I suggest you take them off!

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

PS

There are a couple of reasons why Cadillac stumbled...

1. V8-6-4

That burned some American buyers who later turned to...LEΧUS...

2. The Cadillac Cimarron

That burned plenty of American buyers that simply went to Acura and Infiniti killing Oldsmobile as well...

BMW and Audi got some love too...

3. The very slow transition to performance oriented vehicles...

This made BMW king!

NOT Mercedes-Benz...

In fact...Mercedes Benz was chasing BMW in the 1990s with Cadillac...

Audi too...

Twas when Mercedes Benz said phoque the sports sedan theme...we will rock and focus with a muscle car theme is when Mercedes Benz took off...that would be in the 2000s.

The E39 M5 and the E36 and E46 M3s were UNTOUCHABLE regarding perception  in the 1990s.

The 1994 Audi A4 with the same platform Passat surpassed Mercedes Benz in the compact class in the 1990s.

The Acura Legend, Vigor, Integra, NSX with the Lexus LS and other Lexus cars blew ANY Mercedes Benz perception out of the water.

The SUV craze...

Twas Jeep, Lexus, Ford and Lincoln that lead that ship...

Escalade took over and is till king in the fullsize lux department...

The ML NEVER took off...even with Jurassic Park by its side...

Twas when M-B bought Chrysler was when the ML took off...

The BMW X5 ALWAYS outsold the ML...

Dude...its embarrassing how you want to re-write history...

Lincoln was out selling everybody in the late 1990s...WITH THE TOWN CAR ON THE ROSTER...

THE S-CLASS...HA!!!

The only reason why YOU think the S Class was hot is that you saw DICTATORS being chauffered in them.

M-B charged those heads of state arms and legs to buy them and literally...those heads of states paid for them by arms and legs by stealing and killing their own people...those ultra expensive S Classes were bought with other people's lives...dictators dont give a shyte how much M-B was charging...it wasnt their money being spent...

 

PS:

One dictator's final ride of choice...

A CLASSIC MERCURY...from the 1970s...

Where is the Pullman you talk about, huh?

Edited September 5, 2017 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

Here is a quote from the chief engineer in charge of the Lexus project in the 1980s that became the LS400:

"The car is not something that sits around, it’s something that needs to move around. So I thought. I want to build a car that beats Mercedes-Benz in the most basic function a car has, its driving performance."

He also used this survey from the 80s on what Mercedes buyers find most import:

1. Status and prestige of image 
2. High quality 
3. Resale value 
4. Performance (e.g., handling, ride, power) 
5. Safety

 I think at the time they thought the 250 hp V8 would beat Mercedes in performance, but Mercedes got the S-class from like 240 hp to 389 hp in top trim in about 2 years time, and then that was over.  But yes, Mercedes was Lexus's original target in the 80s.

Cadillac had many reasons they failed yes, mostly reliability which is what Lexus capitalized on.  Even today if you ask a Lexus RX buyer why they bought it instead of a Cadillac XT5, I am sure the #1 response would be the Lexus is more reliable. 

[smk4565]

43 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

PS

The BMW X5 ALWAYS outsold the ML...

 

The ML/GLE outsold the X5 in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2006, 2008, 2016 and 2017 YTD.  

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

One dictator's final ride of choice...

A CLASSIC MERCURY...from the 1970s...

That's a Lincoln, buddy- I believe a '76.

[oldshurst442]

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

That's a Lincoln, buddy- I believe a '76.

I was sooooooo sure it was a Mercury Marquis when I first saw that photo 4-5 years ago.

I googled 1976 Lincoln and by golly...it is a 1976 Continental.

1. I forgot how Lincoln Continentals looked like by the mid-1970s

2. Freaked me out to see how close a Marquis and a Continental look alike.

 

[smk4565]

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

That's a Lincoln, buddy- I believe a '76.

I thought that was a Lincoln and back then it was Continental Town Car or something, it was before they split the name into 2 models. 

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Freaked me out to see how close a Marquis and a Continental look alike.

Yep.

1976 Lincoln had 2 models : the Continental sedan and the Continental Mark IV coupe.

[oldshurst442]

8 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Yep.

1976 Lincoln had 2 models : the Continental sedan and the Continental Mark IV coupe.

I had the Continental Mark IV coupe in my memory banks that I forgot (OR NEVER KNEW ABOUT) the sedan.

I remembered a Marquis as a family friend had one back in the day.

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by oldshurst442