August 2017: General Motors Co.

[William Maley]

GM’s U.S. August Sales up 7.5 Percent

• Total, retail and commercial share up
• Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, Cadillac, OnStar and GM Financial Expand Hurricane Relief Efforts

DETROIT — General Motors (NYSE: GM) today reported U.S. August deliveries of 275,552 vehicles, up 7.5 percent from a year ago. Retail deliveries were up 4 percent, and the company estimates that it gained more than one-half point of retail market share.

U.S. Commercial fleet deliveries were up 19 percent, and the company has gained domestic Commercial market share for 13 consecutive months. Total fleet deliveries were up 24 percent.

“We had a very strong month, and grew our retail and commercial fleet business on the strength of robust crossover sales at all four of our brands,” said Kurt McNeil, U.S. vice president of Sales Operations. “But our focus is on the unfolding crisis in Texas and what we can do to help our customers, employees, dealers and everyone else impacted by the flooding.”

Alan Batey, president of GM North America, added, “During this crisis, we have seen remarkable acts of bravery and compassion. People are pulling together and helping total strangers like they’ve been neighbors all their lives. It’s inspiring and we are there for all of you.”

Since the storm, GM has marshaled teams from Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, Cadillac, OnStar, GM Financial and Customer Care & Aftersales to help with current and future needs across the region.

Among the initiatives:

• GM is offering its OnStar Crisis Assist service to drivers of close to one million GM vehicles in parts of Texas and Louisiana. By pressing the blue OnStar button, customers will be connected to advisors who can provide temporary no-charge access to emergency services, phone and guidance services and 4G LTE Wi-Fi service (provided by AT&T).
• GM Financial is assisting impacted customers with payment arrangements and waiving related fees. Eligible customers who are replacing a vehicle may qualify for a 90-day deferred first payment. 
• The company is moving used vehicle inventory to Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac dealerships so that people with flood-damaged vehicles have access to rental cars and courtesy transportation.
• The Customer Care & Aftersales team, including ACDelco, are working to expedite the shipment of service parts, including electronic components, engines, transmissions and batteries to the region.
• Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac are offering $1,000 in Disaster Relief Assistance to customers in the most heavily impacted areas of Texas and Louisiana through Oct. 2, 2017. This money can be applied by anyone toward the purchase of a new vehicle, and it can be used in addition to all other retail incentives in the market. 
• OnStar has handled more than 23,000 calls for assistance from GM customers and is helping to support the American Red Cross with its unusually high call volume because of Hurricane Harvey. GM has donated $1 million to the American Red Cross to provide immediate support to disaster relief efforts around the country, and it has set up a donation web link for employees, who have contributed more than $50,000 in less than four days.

Employees from GM facilities in Arlington and Fort Worth are filling three semi-trailers full of personal care items, bottled water and non-perishable food.  

Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac are launching websites to give customers easy access to all of the things the brands are doing to help the recovery effort.

August Retail Highlights (vs. August 2016 unless noted)   

Chevrolet

• Best August since 2004 and best August crossover month ever.
• The Traverse was up 83 percent, for its best month ever. 
• The Equinox was up 67 percent.  
• The Trax was up 11 percent, for its best August ever.
• The Chevrolet Bolt EV had its strongest sales ever, with 2,052 deliveries.
• According to PIN data, the Volt and Bolt EV combined for 46 percent of non-luxury, electric vehicle sales in August.
• Silverado LD crew cab was up 21 percent.
• The Impala was up 63 percent.

Buick

• The Encore, up 31 percent, had its best month ever.
• The Envision, up 78 percent, had its best August ever.

GMC

• GMC’s ATPs hit a year-to-date record of $43,400, thanks the best-ever mix of Denali models.
• August deliveries of the Acadia were up 36 percent, for its best August ever, and sales have now grown year over year for 12 consecutive months.
• Sales of the Terrain were up 66 percent, with shipments of the all-new 2018 model starting to grow.
• Sierra LD crew cab was up 21 percent.

Cadillac

• The XT5 crossover was up 28 percent, for its second best month since launch, bringing the combined SRX/XT5 year to date sales up 10 percent.
• August ATP was up nearly $1,400 to $53,300.

Supplemental Data

• U.S. inventory levels are down about 85,000 vehicles from the end of June to about 893,000 vehicles.
• The company is on track to meet its inventory target, which is to end the year with stocks at or below last year’s level of about 850,000 vehicles, with fewer cars and more trucks, crossovers and utilities in the mix.
• According to JD Power PIN estimates, GM’s August incentive spending as a percent of ATP was 13.9 percent, in line with its domestic competitors. 
• Year to date, GM has the lowest daily rental mix of any full-line automaker at about 8 percent of total sales. GM remains on track to decrease daily rental sales by 50,000 units in 2017.

“Hurricane Harvey did have an adverse effect on deliveries during the last week of August for every automaker but the key U.S. economic fundamentals remain supportive of strong vehicle sales,” said Mustafa Mohatarem, GM chief economist. “With the U.S. economy strengthening, we anticipate retail sales will be strong for the foreseeable future.”

[G. David Felt]

 Savana and Caprice sales exploded  

Nice what GM is doing for the relief effort in Texas. 

Course the State says Don't Mess with Texas, so why is everyone helping them? 

[smk4565]

Mustn't have had a big fleet order on Savanas.  The Impala having one last gasp before the curtain closes on fulll size sedans.  Equinox could be GM's #2 seller behind Silverado this year.

[frogger]

Is the Bolt inventory constrained or just selling very poorly?

 

 

[surreal1272]

19 minutes ago, frogger said:

Is the Bolt inventory constrained or just selling very poorly?

 

 

They are not sold in every state but that is about to change (if it hasn't already). 

27 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Mustn't have had a big fleet order on Savanas.  The Impala having one last gasp before the curtain closes on fulll size sedans.  Equinox could be GM's #2 seller behind Silverado this year.

For the month, it was GMs #2 seller. 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, frogger said:

Is the Bolt inventory constrained or just selling very poorly?

 

 

August is the month that Chevrolet opened the BOLT to everyone in every state, so half the US states could finally receive BOLT's in the month of August. From July to August, the sales went from 1971 for July to 2107 for August. 136 sales increase from July and a total jump from 9563 to 11,670 YTD. This is doing better than many German Luxury auto's.

I am hopeful we see a bigger jump in September as all states and dealerships should have BOLTs on their lots.

[smk4565]

7 hours ago, frogger said:

Is the Bolt inventory constrained or just selling very poorly?

 

 

There is a lot of Bolt inventory, they shut down the factory because there is so much.

[smk4565]

They need to merge the Sonic and Spark into one cheap small car, sales of both are small and tanking fast.  

[balthazar]

Bolt : #1 EV in July, #2 in August. Sales up every month since February.
#5 YTD EV/hybrid car, and closing in on #4.

[Cmicasa the Great]

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

There is a lot of Bolt inventory, they shut down the factory because there is so much.

Tends to happen when U build a bunch to accommodate a nationwide roll out.. go figure.. and the Texas thing happened just when gas prices started going down.. now gas is heading to $3 a gallon. Suddenly EV sale will go up again.. perhaps sub-compacts as well. People are as short-sighted as U are German lovin sell-out I pray everyday would pack up and move the fuck outta my country.,

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They need to merge the Sonic and Spark into one cheap small car, sales of both are small and tanking fast.  

Technically they are already the same car underneath.. along  with the Trax and Encore.. 

[smk4565]

11 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Tends to happen when U build a bunch to accommodate a nationwide roll out.. go figure.. and the Texas thing happened just when gas prices started going down.. now gas is heading to $3 a gallon. Suddenly EV sale will go up again.. perhaps sub-compacts as well. People are as short-sighted as U are German lovin sell-out I pray everyday would pack up and move the f@#k outta my country.,

Technically they are already the same car underneath.. along  with the Trax and Encore.. 

I actually would like to see Cruze, Sonic and Spark merged into one small car at about 176 inches long, then Malibu downsized to about 185 inches long, then Impala downsized to about 193 inches long, and Chevy have 3 sedans and that lets the Impala nameplate stay, rather than get killed off.  This makes the Malibu a Civic competitor, and Impala an Accord/Camry competitor, which I think is a stronger play than putting Malibu against Camry, Camry wins that every day of the week.

I like EV cars, I can't wait till when every car is electric and we can get off gas and we and Europe can quit buying oil from the Middle East and we won't have to have a war every 10 years over there for oil.   I don't like the Bolt because it is ugly and has a cheap interior and it is incredibly small.   I hope my next car is electric, there just aren't a lot of choices on the market yet, and the 1 good electric car is $100,000 which I can't afford.

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I actually would like to see Cruze, Sonic and Spark merged into one small car at about 176 inches long, then Malibu downsized to about 185 inches long, then Impala downsized to about 193 inches long, and Chevy have 3 sedans and that lets the Impala nameplate stay, rather than get killed off.  This makes the Malibu a Civic competitor, and Impala an Accord/Camry competitor, which I think is a stronger play than putting Malibu against Camry, Camry wins that every day of the week.

 

NO.. the only thing U said that makes sense is the Sonic/Spark merger.., something I've been sayin since the Spark came out. Leave the Cruze alone. Its a sister car to the Volt. The Impala needs to stay exactly where it is just on an RWD/AWD platform basically being an AWD capable/optional "SS." Malibu sales are fine.. and it should stay exactly in the position it is, with optional AWD as well.  

[smk4565]

9 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

NO.. the only thing U said that makes sense is the Sonic/Spark merger.., something I've been sayin since the Spark came out. Leave the Cruze alone. Its a sister car to the Volt. The Impala needs to stay exactly where it is just on an RWD/AWD platform basically being an AWD capable/optional "SS." Malibu sales are fine.. and it should stay exactly in the position it is, with optional AWD as well.  

So in 5 years when large sedan segment basically disappears, you want Chevy to kill the Impala name plate and keep the Spark name?  Wishing for an Omega platform Impala is nice but it isn't going to happen.  GM already said they plan to kill the XTS/Lacrosse/Impala trio at the end of their life span.  

Ford is planning a 2 sedan line up for the USA, Focus and Fusion only.  Hyundai killed Azera, the Kia Cadenza has to be in its last generation, the writing is on the wall for large sedans.

[surreal1272]

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

There is a lot of Bolt inventory, they shut down the factory because there is so much.

You really need to inform yourself instead of just trolling GM as usual.

 

What are YTD sales of Mercedes EV models?

Edited September 2, 2017 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

10 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

NO.. the only thing U said that makes sense is the Sonic/Spark merger.., something I've been sayin since the Spark came out. Leave the Cruze alone. Its a sister car to the Volt. The Impala needs to stay exactly where it is just on an RWD/AWD platform basically being an AWD capable/optional "SS." Malibu sales are fine.. and it should stay exactly in the position it is, with optional AWD as well.  

There doesn't need to be a merger of the Spark and Sonic. Just ditch the Spark. Sonic sales were actually pretty brisk until GM decided to confuse customers with an even smaller model. The sonic is better in every way while still having that small stature that's good for the urban dweller types.

Edited September 2, 2017 by surreal1272

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

There doesn't need to be a merger of the Spark and Sonic. Just ditch the Spark. Sonic sales were actually pretty brisk until GM decided to confuse customers with an even smaller model. The sonic is better in every way while still having that small stature that's good for the urban dweller types.

Well that's pretty much the same thing. I have never seen the need for the Spark. The Sonic is a more reputable name so yeah.. Spark merges into Sonic for all intents.. but really just the development costs. I agree with the confusion. The TRAX should have been called the Sonic TRX, giving Chevy a Corolla/MAtrix type sales advantage, with 12K sales in August combined. The Bolt is probably has a strong conquest BTW.. or returning Volt owners who want to go a step further. It outsold the Model 3- 28:1

@smk4565 GM said the Lax/XTS/Impala platform is in danger due to Hamtramck being down overall this year.. the CT6 and Volt were also apart of that POSSIBILITY but they quickly pointed out that they were safe. The deal is that Hamtramck needs to build more unique products. An Omega based Impala and LAX would fit that bill.. the XTS is down for obvious reasons being the same size as the CT6 and same price as the CTS. Its an unnecessary vehicle bottom line. Impala is down because GM decided to drop fleet sales massively and quiet as its kept.. make a Malibu that is almost identical in interior volume as the larger Impala.. they are essentially the same car in terms of usable size and look a lot alike as well.  The greatest thing GM could do is build an IMPALA with a 2.0L, 3.6L, and a 6.2L on RWD/AWD allowing for more amortization of Omega not to mention taking the Impala back to its roots. Chevy needs a large car. CUVs are not the answer to everyone's desires. GM would be wise not to do what they did in 1996 killing off the Roadmaster, Fleetwood, Olds Custom, and Impala/Caprice

 

BTW.. last month GM pulled up an additional 1.6% making 18.6% Market share

[smk4565]

On 9/2/2017 at 10:09 AM, surreal1272 said:

 

What are YTD sales of Mercedes EV models?

More than Lincoln, Cadillac, Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura combined.

[balthazar]

On 9/2/2017 at 10:09 AM, surreal1272 said:

What are YTD sales of Mercedes EV models?

1,953 in 2017 with 4 models (tho I believe 2 of those 4 have been canceled due to low sales).
Flopping hard vs. the 300K ICE models they'll likely move.
And MB wants to replace 10 ICEs with EVs...

Edited September 4, 2017 by balthazar

[surreal1272]

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

More than Lincoln, Cadillac, Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura combined.

Far less than GM which is what you should be comparing it to. Not even a valid bar move SMK. The Bolt sold more last month than all four Benz models combined for the YEAR. 

 

And I thought Cadillac wasn't worth comparing to Mercedes. Guess that was just a lie you had to tell yourself. 

Edited September 4, 2017 by surreal1272

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

Far less than GM which is what you should be comparing it to. Not even a valid bar move SMK. The Bolt sold more last month than all four Benz models combined for the YEAR. 

Quoted for truth.

[smk4565]

15 hours ago, balthazar said:

1,953 in 2017 with 4 models (tho I believe 2 of those 4 have been canceled due to low sales).
Flopping hard vs. the 300K ICE models they'll likely move.
And MB wants to bring replace 10 ICEs with EVs...

Not replace ICE, Add 10 EV's to the existing line of ICE vehicles.  No ICE cars are getting dropped, except the SLC which would get dropped anyway due to slow sales and they have other convertibles.  

Post 2030 they might not even make a gas or diesel engine, and post 2040 they won't for sure, so they have to start the transition.  

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Far less than GM which is what you should be comparing it to. Not even a valid bar move SMK. The Bolt sold more last month than all four Benz models combined for the YEAR. 

 

And I thought Cadillac wasn't worth comparing to Mercedes. Guess that was just a lie you had to tell yourself. 

Why would I compare Mercedes to GM?  Cadillac who makes up less than 5% of GM's global volume is the only GM brand competing with Mercedes and they only do it in 2 markets.   Comparing GM to VW, Toyota, or Renault-Nissan makes sense. 

And I originally said that Mercedes wasn't worried about Cadillac, they seem more concerned with Tesla and AMG has their sights set on Porsche.   The consumer can compare whatever they want.  Mercedes is worried about the future and how quickly EV's will take over, how much ride-sharing makes an impact, how quickly the EU says no more ICE engines, etc. 

[balthazar]

mercedes has no hope of catching Tesla.

[surreal1272]

20 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Why would I compare Mercedes to GM?  Cadillac who makes up less than 5% of GM's global volume is the only GM brand competing with Mercedes and they only do it in 2 markets.   Comparing GM to VW, Toyota, or Renault-Nissan makes sense. 

And I originally said that Mercedes wasn't worried about Cadillac, they seem more concerned with Tesla and AMG has their sights set on Porsche.   The consumer can compare whatever they want.  Mercedes is worried about the future and how quickly EV's will take over, how much ride-sharing makes an impact, how quickly the EU says no more ICE engines, etc. 

Again, you are wrong. You want to compare Mercedes sales to Cadillacs yet a certain percentage of Benz sales are commercial and vans. How is that relevant to Cadillac? Furthermore, Cadillac is not GMs only competitor for Mercedes. We have already talked about how Buick has the Regal that competes with Benz FWD offering CLA and soon you can add yet another FWD A Class to that mix. Delude yourself into thinking that they don't compete but I promise you they do. When you are throwing around Mercedes Benz sales totals, you have to compare to GM not Cadillac. It's that simple. You want to compare the E Class to the CTS or CT6? Relevant. You want to compare Benz total sales to just Cadillac? Not relevant. Again, it's that simple.

 

And your "original statement" was wrong from the get go, hence why we are here now. You were wrong then and you are wrong now.

[smk4565]

Buick doesn't compete with Mercedes, they aren't even on par with Lincoln.

[G. David Felt]

28 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Buick doesn't compete with Mercedes, they aren't even on par with Lincoln.

MB does not compete with Lincoln either, more inline with Toyota, Chevrolet, as the cheap ass CLA and other low end models and FWD appliances prove that especially the garbage appliance EV that was sold and still being sold in California.

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

MB does not compete with Lincoln either, more inline with Toyota, Chevrolet, as the cheap ass CLA and other low end models and FWD appliances prove that especially the garbage appliance EV that was sold and still being sold in California.

Actually Benz picked up more in sales than Lincoln sells all together between 2006 and the present.  Benz is tier one Luxury, Lincoln struggle to compete with Acura and Infinity.

 

[G. David Felt]

5 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Actually Benz picked up more in sales than Lincoln sells all together between 2006 and the present.  Benz is tier one Luxury, Lincoln struggle to compete with Acura and Infinity.

 

I see Benze as another Tier 1 to 10 in trying to be the all things to everyone from ubber 1/10th of 1% crowd to the bargain basement just starting out crowd. 

As such, I no longer see them as a Tier 1 only Luxury auto company. They have joined the ranks of being a GM, Toyota, Ford company. As such, even BMW now is not longer a luxury only auto company.

That is the point that SMK seems to never be willing to accept and acknowledge. 

Does Benze make luxury auto's? Yes, Do they make entry level cheap auto's? Yes, that changes them from a Luxury only auto maker especially here in the states.

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

I see Benze as another Tier 1 to 10 in trying to be the all things to everyone from ubber 1/10th of 1% crowd to the bargain basement just starting out crowd. 

As such, I no longer see them as a Tier 1 only Luxury auto company. They have joined the ranks of being a GM, Toyota, Ford company. As such, even BMW now is not longer a luxury only auto company.

That is the point that SMK seems to never be willing to accept and acknowledge. 

Does Benze make luxury auto's? Yes, Do they make entry level cheap auto's? Yes, that changes them from a Luxury only auto maker especially here in the states.

Ohhhhhhhhh I get they build cheap crap also...I just have much more respect for Benz than Lincoln.

[G. David Felt]

26 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Ohhhhhhhhh I get they build cheap crap also...I just have much more respect for Benz than Lincoln.

I get ya my friend and agree, in many ways Benz is better than what Lincoln has had or currently has. Continental is a big disappointment to me. Talk about a tight car that is just way too tight and small on the inside for a car this size and under delivers in so many ways. Love the look but they really failed to deliver I believe.

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

I get ya my friend and agree, in many ways Benz is better than what Lincoln has had or currently has. Continental is a big disappointment to me. Talk about a tight car that is just way too tight and small on the inside for a car this size and under delivers in so many ways. Love the look but they really failed to deliver I believe.

The CTS Paul my co worker just bought does not under deliver in the least.

[surreal1272]

On 9/5/2017 at 8:38 AM, smk4565 said:

Buick doesn't compete with Mercedes, they aren't even on par with Lincoln.

The Regal most certainly competes with the CLA, meaning that Benz does compete with Buick on this level. Fact. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

The Regal most certainly competes with the CLA, meaning that Benz does compete with Buick on this level. Fact. 

 

Does the Toyota Avalon compete with the ATS?  

[surreal1272]

17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 

Does the Toyota Avalon compete with the ATS?  

Deflecting and feel free to reference several comparos involving both cars. Even car shopping websites confirm it. Deal with it.

http://www.newcars.com/reviews/buick-regal-vs-mercedesbenz-claclass-sedan.html

 

For comparos sake

https://www.google.com/amp/www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/3-series/2014/entry-level-luxury-sedan-comparison/amp/

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

46 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 

Does the Toyota Avalon compete with the ATS?  

 

30 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Deflecting and feel free to reference several comparos involving both cars. Even car shopping websites confirm it. Deal with it.

http://www.newcars.com/reviews/buick-regal-vs-mercedesbenz-claclass-sedan.html

 

For comparos sake

https://www.google.com/amp/www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/3-series/2014/entry-level-luxury-sedan-comparison/amp/

 

WOW, The CLA is destroyed by the BMW, VW and Especially the Buick. MB needs to step up their game, everyone else is eating it according to the MT writeup.

NewCar is a nice comparison and for the most part since they did not drive the CLA they go on specifications where Buick wins.

So the Auto world clearly shows the CLA from MB competes against all the other mid level luxury sedans but needs some updates to get competitive.

[smk4565]

2018 Buick Regal    $25,915 base MSRP   Dimensions 192.9" x 73.3" x 57.3"

2018 Mercedes CLA $32,700 base MSRP  Dimensions 182.3" x 70.0: x 56.6"

Direct competition!!!

 

[surreal1272]

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

2018 Buick Regal    $25,915 base MSRP   Dimensions 192.9" x 73.3" x 57.3"

2018 Mercedes CLA $32,700 base MSRP  Dimensions 182.3" x 70.0: x 56.6"

Direct competition!!!

 

Tap your heels three times and see if it doesn't change the facts. No? Then you have your answer and your answer is wrong. Keep making up excuses here but cars that are not cross shopped, don't get compared by multiple publications and car shopping sites. Sorry to break it you. Remember, since there is no more Verano, this is what Buick buyers will cross shop against the Regal if they are interested in a Benz as well so keep being delusional and downright mad that a Benz would ever be compared to a poor old Buick but dems the facts. It is what happens when you aim for the lower end market like the CLA does. Just until the A Class comes out. What will your excuses be then?

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Tap your heels three times and see if it doesn't change the facts. No? Then you have your answer and your answer is wrong. Keep making up excuses here but cars that are not cross shopped, don't get compared by multiple publications and car shopping sites. Sorry to break it you. Remember, since there is no more Verano, this is what Buick buyers will cross shop against the Regal if they are interested in a Benz as well so keep being delusional and downright mad that a Benz would ever be compared to a poor old Buick but dems the facts. It is what happens when you aim for the lower end market like the CLA does. Just until the A Class comes out. What will your excuses be then?

I am not mad that is just a full size class and $7,000 in price between those 2 cars.  The Camry has the same size gap and about $9,000 price gap, and I don't think people are cross shopping Camrys with Mercedes either.  

[surreal1272]

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I am not mad that is just a full size class and $7,000 in price between those 2 cars.  The Camry has the same size gap and about $9,000 price gap, and I don't think people are cross shopping Camrys with Mercedes either.  

Clearly the price difference doesn't matter and especially when the new Regal (which is mid-size, not fully size) easily crosses $30K and then some, putting it right in line with its FWD competition. You can paint it anyway you want but Benz most certainly is competing with Buick on this one. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by surreal1272

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Clearly the price difference doesn't matter and escpecially when the new Regal (which is mid-size, not fully size) easily crosses $30K and then some, putting it right in line with its FWD competition. You can paint it anyway you want but Benz most certainly is competing with Buick on this one. 

The new Regal seems very nice, esp. in wagon form...I'd take one over a CLA...the only Benzes I like are out of my price range (like the CLS)...and I'd never buy a used Benz except with an extended warranty..

[surreal1272]

1 minute ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

The new Regal seems very nice, esp. in wagon form...I'd take one over a CLA...the only Benzes I like are out of my price range (like the CLS)...and I'd never buy a used Benz except with an extended warranty..

The wagon looks nice too and I'm not normally that big on Buick. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

On 9/5/2017 at 11:38 AM, smk4565 said:

Buick doesn't compete with Mercedes, they aren't even on par with Lincoln.

Then U really haven't been in a Buick lately.. nor Chevy.. because quite frankly outside of the Mid trim level E-Class and above.. almost every Buick now goes head to head with Mercedes of a similar size if the BADGES WERE REMOVED.. some even still compete with a comparable sized Benz. The new Enclave and LaX for instance.. perhaps even the Envision. The Cascada is a very nice place to be.. and my only complaint about it is that it is a Vert only. The New Regal.. forgadaboutit... super premium.. U are simply too hung up on names to give it a second look.. but U really should get over that BS.. when we are talking about Benz these day.. we are essentially talking about a Chevy, Buick, Ford, Toyota, Lincoln, Cadillac, Lexus, Hyundai.... competitor. Seriously bro.. get on the horn with your Benz superiors.. tell they they watered down the brand the same way that Caddy did in the 90s.. and it gonna be a long road, as well, to get back to where they were in consumer's minds. Interesting.. Cadillac is on the UP.. while Benz.. is going down

[smk4565]

40 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Then U really haven't been in a Buick lately.. nor Chevy.. because quite frankly outside of the Mid trim level E-Class and above.. almost every Buick now goes head to head with Mercedes of a similar size if the BADGES WERE REMOVED.. some even still compete with a comparable sized Benz. The new Enclave and LaX for instance.. perhaps even the Envision. The Cascada is a very nice place to be.. and my only complaint about it is that it is a Vert only. The New Regal.. forgadaboutit... super premium.. U are simply too hung up on names to give it a second look.. but U really should get over that BS.. when we are talking about Benz these day.. we are essentially talking about a Chevy, Buick, Ford, Toyota, Lincoln, Cadillac, Lexus, Hyundai.... competitor. Seriously bro.. get on the horn with your Benz superiors.. tell they they watered down the brand the same way that Caddy did in the 90s.. and it gonna be a long road, as well, to get back to where they were in consumer's minds. Interesting.. Cadillac is on the UP.. while Benz.. is going down

Buick doesn't have a car the size of the CLA or C-class, the Regal in ever dimension is within 1 inch of the E-class.   The Mercedes of similar size to the LaCrosse is the S-class, and the Mercedes of similar size to Enclave is GLS.  Buick is a far cry from Benz on those.

If Buick was competing with Mercedes (Audi, BMW, Lexus too) then GM wouldn't need Cadillac.  But Cadillac is better than Buick and can't topple the Germans or Lexus.  I have wished for years that Cadillac was on the up, Cadillac was my favorite luxury brand until around the 2008ish time frame when the 2nd Gen CTS I didn't care for much, the STS got a watered down refresh, the XLR-V was under-powered, SRX went to front drive.  And the competition kept improving.

I have always liked Jaguars too, I always liked the styling and I liked the old style Jags with loads of wood trim, the new XE and XF are black plastic city inside them.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Clearly the price difference doesn't matter and especially when the new Regal (which is mid-size, not fully size) easily crosses $30K and then some, putting it right in line with its FWD competition. You can paint it anyway you want but Benz most certainly is competing with Buick on this one. 

I meant a whole size class apart, not that Regal was full size.

Even Mazda has those commercials with the badges covered and people test driving one of their cars compared to an Audi, Infiniti, or Mercedes.  All these brands want to compare to Mercedes and Audi, even Audi makes Mercedes comparisons in their ads.  If Mercedes wasn't the top dog, all these companies wouldn't want to be like them.

I do appreciate that Buick and Cadillac recently have not mentioned another car brand in their ads.  I hate the Chevy ads with the blind test drives or Toyota/Ford comparisons.  

[surreal1272]

20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I meant a whole size class apart, not that Regal was full size.

Even Mazda has those commercials with the badges covered and people test driving one of their cars compared to an Audi, Infiniti, or Mercedes.  All these brands want to compare to Mercedes and Audi, even Audi makes Mercedes comparisons in their ads.  If Mercedes wasn't the top dog, all these companies wouldn't want to be like them.

I do appreciate that Buick and Cadillac recently have not mentioned another car brand in their ads.  I hate the Chevy ads with the blind test drives or Toyota/Ford comparisons.  

And none of that changes the fact that all the major publications compare the two as do car shopping sites. I do not understand your need to avoid the plain and simple truth. Maybe it's because the old Regal beat that same CLA in several comparos? 

27 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Buick doesn't have a car the size of the CLA or C-class, the Regal in ever dimension is within 1 inch of the E-class.   The Mercedes of similar size to the LaCrosse is the S-class, and the Mercedes of similar size to Enclave is GLS.  Buick is a far cry from Benz on those.

If Buick was competing with Mercedes (Audi, BMW, Lexus too) then GM wouldn't need Cadillac.  But Cadillac is better than Buick and can't topple the Germans or Lexus.  I have wished for years that Cadillac was on the up, Cadillac was my favorite luxury brand until around the 2008ish time frame when the 2nd Gen CTS I didn't care for much, the STS got a watered down refresh, the XLR-V was under-powered, SRX went to front drive.  And the competition kept improving.

I have always liked Jaguars too, I always liked the styling and I liked the old style Jags with loads of wood trim, the new XE and XF are black plastic city inside them.

How is introducing sub-$30K FWD cars (the price of the first year CLA) and having an even smaller FWD car "improving"? Where I come from, that's called diluting the brand. 

[balthazar]

55 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Buick doesn't have a car the size of the CLA or C-class, the Regal in ever dimension is within 1 inch of the E-class.   The Mercedes of similar size to the LaCrosse is the S-class, and the Mercedes of similar size to Enclave is GLS.  Buick is a far cry from Benz on those.

You don't seriously believe people shop for car based on exterior dimensions, do you?

"Oooo- I like this Model A but jeez- it's 190 inches long and will hardly fit in our 240" garage. Better keep shopping for something 185 inches long! It's a shame, too, because I really felt Model A was a great value."

[surreal1272]

31 minutes ago, balthazar said:

You don't seriously believe people shop for car based on exterior dimensions, do you?

"Oooo- I like this Model A but jeez- it's 190 inches long and will hardly fit in our 240" garage. Better keep shopping for something 185 inches long! It's a shame, too, because I really felt Model A was a great value."

Exactly. Weird as it sounds, when I bought my Magnum back in '08, I actually cross shopped it with a loaded HHR because they both had cargo room in the back. Two different length cars but they were cross shopped so when I see the endless SMK remarks about literal dimensions (like it's the be all, end all of car shopping) I can't help but laugh a bit. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

Kno what else is rather telling?

smk went from his Olds Aurora (200" overall length) to an '08 e-class (190" overall length).

HTF did that happen- that's a consumer buying a car that's a "full class size" different than the one they own. I thought that didn't ever happen. I mean, if 10 inches overall length AUTOMATICALLY precludes cross-shopping, it must also preclude vehicle replacement, by the same token

Unless, you know, that's not how vehicles are bought....

[oldshurst442]

I was gonna go down this worm hole a while back...sometimes I wanna engage in silly stupidity arguments...sometimes I dont.

I stopped...and then I decided to come back to it...the auto-record thingy saved the post....and now Ive decided to engage in this silliness of the  CLA being a worthy "entry level"  luxury car deemed for a truly luxury brand...

 

 

Quote

Does the Toyota Avalon compete with the ATS?  

Price wise it does...So does the CLA....

And you know what else competes with the CLA?  A Chevrolet Impala LTZ..yes on price...

Ive hammered on Cadillac for this...

https://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/topic/86783-what-does-cadillac-mean-to-you/

Now....what is good for the goose is good for the gander...

The CLA is nothing but a FWD car with AWD attached to it on the big trim with econobox intentions because it is an econobox FWD A-Class underneath...but to fool latte swilling badge snob idiots, M-B slaps on some crappy leather and a high price tag and calls it the day...one could just sing praise because of what badge he drives...because that is what cars are supposed to do anyhow...but one also has to see through the bullshyte too...and we lead to this next paragraph complimenting @surreal1272's take on the discussion...

As far as the last gen Buick Regal is concerned...a truly German engineered effort not to be forgotten...here is an interesting comparo from a "reputable"  "enthusiast"  "car magazine"...

 

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/3-series/2014/entry-level-luxury-sedan-comparison/

 

The article states the obvious if one is reading between the lines of what is wrong with the M-B CLA and why M-B should not be selling this car to anybody...

@Cmicasa the Great's post is dead on with the reading between the lines...especially the bold parts...

16 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Then U really haven't been in a Buick lately.. nor Chevy.. because quite frankly outside of the Mid trim level E-Class and above.. almost every Buick now goes head to head with Mercedes of a similar size if the BADGES WERE REMOVED.. some even still compete with a comparable sized Benz. The new Enclave and LaX for instance.. perhaps even the Envision. The Cascada is a very nice place to be.. and my only complaint about it is that it is a Vert only. The New Regal.. forgadaboutit... super premium.. U are simply too hung up on names to give it a second look.. but U really should get over that BS.. when we are talking about Benz these day.. we are essentially talking about a Chevy, Buick, Ford, Toyota, Lincoln, Cadillac, Lexus, Hyundai.... competitor. Seriously bro.. get on the horn with your Benz superiors.. tell they they watered down the brand the same way that Caddy did in the 90s.. and it gonna be a long road, as well, to get back to where they were in consumer's minds. Interesting.. Cadillac is on the UP.. while Benz.. is going down

 

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

Makes one wonder how long before the pressure from the badge snobs changes to O'h MY GOD, MB is nothing but a GM, Toyota, FORD Equal and they flee to the next considered snob badge.

After all as has been well pointed out, SMK went from a competitor to MB and now thinks there is nothing better, yet already we all see the dropping down by MB as others rise.

Interesting times we live in.