July 2017: General Motors Co.

[smk4565]

9 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I'm not so sure about that. GLS is bigger, taller, blingier, has a much bigger star emblem in the grille... I bet all those people who assume SUVs are a step up from the corresponding sedan probably think the GLS is above the s-class, which is rather bland & pretty much dated styling-wise, plus they are usually black which makes people think of livery cars. PLUS... MB prices the ancient hoary old g-wagon HIGHER than the S-class, reinforcing your theory that SUVs may be perceived as higher up than sedans.

Look at Cadillac- there is no sedan equivalent of the E, it has the highest MSRP in the catalog, and people know it's (currently) the top model. That probably extends to many consumers.

Good work!!

The S-class is longer than a GLS, but it is more luxurious, and above all it is pushed by Mercedes as their top car, and the S-class goes up to about $250,000 in top spec.  Yes they have the G-wagen and the AMG GT but the embodiment of Mercedes is that S-class and that is why they make the C and E class like scaled down versions of it.

Why Cadillac doesn't put Escalade styling on like 3 other SUVs is a mystery to me.  Cadillac's chances of being a big player in sedans is pretty much over, but they could still be a strong luxury truck brand if they capitalize on the Escalade attributes and styling.  Although I am not a fan of calling every SUV they have Escalade like the 6 Range Rovers that Land Rover is selling.

[TaurusSHO]

34 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Two thoughts...this must be Photoshop, as no 1989 car in the state of Ohio is this pristine and clean.

Also, you write and think so clearly I assumed you already had an advanced degree.

It was my grandma's car and has always been garaged except for a few years after she passed.  I started driving it with 58k miles and it now has about 67k.  I know it's just a LeBaron, but I hate racking up the miles on it.  I couldn't turn down a free car though.  

Thanks.   Back in my MT forum days, most people thought I was in my 40s or 50s before I revealed that I was 15 lol.

 

[G. David Felt]

46 minutes ago, TaurusSHO said:

It was my grandma's car and has always been garaged except for a few years after she passed.  I started driving it with 58k miles and it now has about 67k.  I know it's just a LeBaron, but I hate racking up the miles on it.  I couldn't turn down a free car though.  

Thanks.   Back in my MT forum days, most people thought I was in my 40s or 50s before I revealed that I was 15 lol.

 

Nothing wrong with respecting your grandparents auto's and how they took care of them. Lovely auto.

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The S-class is longer than a GLS, but it is more luxurious, and above all it is pushed by Mercedes as their top car, and the S-class goes up to about $250,000 in top spec.  Yes they have the G-wagen and the AMG GT but the embodiment of Mercedes is that S-class and that is why they make the C and E class like scaled down versions of it.

Why Cadillac doesn't put Escalade styling on like 3 other SUVs is a mystery to me.  Cadillac's chances of being a big player in sedans is pretty much over, but they could still be a strong luxury truck brand if they capitalize on the Escalade attributes and styling.  Although I am not a fan of calling every SUV they have Escalade like the 6 Range Rovers that Land Rover is selling.

Land Rover in my experience has rabid and rabidly loyal customer base. Agree Cadillac could be a strong truck brand.

3 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Nothing wrong with respecting your grandparents auto's and how they took care of them. Lovely auto.

Agree...!

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The S-class is longer than a GLS, but it is more luxurious, and above all it is pushed by Mercedes as their top car, and the S-class goes up to about $250,000 in top spec.  Yes they have the G-wagen and the AMG GT but the embodiment of Mercedes is that S-class and that is why they make the C and E class like scaled down versions of it.

It doesn't make any sense to "push" the s-class as the 'top' when the G starts almost $30K higher. MB is putting SUVs above their sedans and have been for some time.

I can't find 'embodiment' on their website, and I doubt most consumers have any idea of the theory. No; I think you're right :  MB needs to push the GLS HARD, take it way upmarket, tack $50K onto the base and jack it up above the hoary old S-class, where more & more consumers expect it to be. SUVs and CUVs are the future and the s-class is sinking fast. Time to switch tactics and GO WHERE THE SALES ARE!

[Robert Hall]

IIRC I read somewhere they are planning a Mercedes-Maybach version of the GLS, like how they have the Mercedes-Maybach versions at the top of the S-class line.   And a new G-class is coming.   Got to get some competition out there for the Bentyagaga and Cullinan. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

20 hours ago, cp-the-nerd said:

Compared to the equivalent sedan, yes they are. That's the point I was making.

 

I'll grant you ease of ingress/egress, but the "useless, small trunk" comment is an exaggeration. Even compacts have plenty of functional space. If a family of four can't vacation with an Impala, they're bringing too much crap.

I'm not saying crossovers and SUVs don't have use or appeal, I'm just saying the perceived necessity is vastly overblown. Just like people buying full size pick-up trucks who don't tow, need 4WD, or use the bed.

 Strong commentary on a shitty reality. I constantly smh seeing the crowded roads of sorry ass drivers pushing their CUVs. I currently drive some of the best handling sedans in the world with the Impala and CTS... and I will certainly give GM props at their strong levels of handling prowess in even my Yukon.. but there really is no comparison in reality vs the sedans and sports coupes. The comment by Cubical in relation to SPACE is a BS.. and I agree completely that not many will truly use the space in an Impala huge trunk to its capacity on a daily basis.

Hell.. I recently put a 60 inch TV in the trunk of mine, albeit I had to lay the back seats down, but it fit much to even my surprise. Upon picking it up from Best Buy.. I said to the salesperson.. I might have to run home and get my Yukon.. he said "what are U driving..." I said "a 14 Impala.." He says.. " my mom has one.. the trunk in that thing is huge.. we can try." To my surprise the width of the trunk accommodated it... and even before the seats were folded 60% of the thing was in.  Had I brought my Yukon.. I still would have had to lay by back seats down to fit it.. so the convenience was null.

[Cmicasa the Great]

18 hours ago, cp-the-nerd said:

I'm sure your grand cherokee drives just fine for an SUV/CUV. I'm speaking *comparatively* here. Charger R/T or Cherokee V8 for dynamics? Charger, obviously. That's what I'm saying.

I literally made the enthusiast case for sedans on a car enthusiast website and stated my opinion that the landslide in sales is depressing to me, the pushback in this thread is confusing to say the least.

If you like big bloated vehicles for throwing your crap in the back, that's fine and dandy, but we're watching more enthusiast oriented cars get pushed out of the market every day and I'm disheartened by it.

Problem is that most of these sites these days are not populated by ENTHUSIASTS like what U and I see as such. 70% of the guys U speak with are the equivalent of Clark Griswald (National Lampoons) and routinely take orders from their wives on what they should purchase. 90% of those probable don't even know what these are or are used for, let alone ever used either:

 

 

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

15 hours ago, cp-the-nerd said:

Fact: sedans have better dynamics and performance than crossovers. Opinion: we are sad to see the market abandoning better driving cars for bloated appliances.

And here's the scary part.. we SAW THIS back in 1995.. and GM fucked up and decided to cancel several sweet full sizers to accommodate that change. My hope is that they don't do it again. The CT6, CTS and ATS are still on.. the XTS is being merged with the CTS... which I continue to say is a great reason why the same priced CTS sales are down.. The killing of the Impala is foolish and I hope that it is not only a rumor but GM has plans to utilize Omega or Alpha-L as a merger of the Impala and departed SS. 

[ykX]

How many of you guys arguing that CUV's are just for "image" and they are "pointless" and you can fit everything in the sedan have small kids?

I know plenty of people who used to drive sedans and converted to CUV's because there is no comparison on usefulness and utility.  Take Honda Accord and CR-V for example, it is not even close how much more useful space you get in CR-V.

I am a car enthusiast and I am driving and will be driving sedans for most likely my whole life.  I value the better driving dynamics, in some cases fuel efficiency etc, etc etc.  However, as a family vehicle I want an CUV, at least for now while I have two small kids.  We take family trips often and it would be so much harder if we had a sedan, even a full size sedan.

The modern CUV's are getting pretty close in fuel efficiency to sedans and with respect to driving dynamics - most people don't really care as sad as it is.

 

[balthazar]

27 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

90% of those probable don't even know what these are or are used for, let alone ever used either:

I own dozens of the 2nd one, and 1 of the 3rd one (also used numerous times).
The 1st one appears to be a dollar bin 'spreader clamp' of sorts- don't think I would ever have a use for that one.

[Cmicasa the Great]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I own dozens of the 2nd one, and 1 of the 3rd one (also used numerous times).
The 1st one appears to be a dollar bin 'spreader clamp' of sorts- don't think I would ever have a use for that one.

Well U are of the 10 %

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ykX said:

How many of you guys arguing that CUV's are just for "image" and they are "pointless" and you can fit everything in the sedan have small kids?

I know plenty of people who used to drive sedans and converted to CUV's because there is no comparison on usefulness and utility.  Take Honda Accord and CR-V for example, it is not even close how much more useful space you get in CR-V.

I am a car enthusiast and I am driving and will be driving sedans for most likely my whole life.  I value the better driving dynamics, in some cases fuel efficiency etc, etc etc.  However, as a family vehicle I want an CUV, at least for now while I have two small kids.  We take family trips often and it would be so much harder if we had a sedan, even a full size sedan.

The modern CUV's are getting pretty close in fuel efficiency to sedans and with respect to driving dynamics - most people don't really care as sad as it is.

We'll said, the days of full size station wagons like the Oldsmobile Delta 98 and Buick Roadmaster station wagon are gone. Growing up doing yearly trips in our station wagons and pulling a trailer or boat was fond memories for me, but as we met our relatives in Missouri and saw everyone in Suburbans and how much more space and use they were, my family converted over and I myself only ever owned one car in my first year out of college before I saved up and bought my 1994 Suburban and never looked back. I still have my first Suburban to this day and it drives awesome. 

Yes I have changed out the coils in front, lift kit and stiffened up the suspension so it really rides nice with a big 402 V8. Yea, not the best on gas mileage but then I could care less about that and more about the utility of my SUV and the fun performance factor that I built into it.

I Do NOT miss the passing of cars as engineering has learned how to put the same fun factor into CUV/SUV's. I honestly see a limited market for sedans and coupes in the future as we move towards Hybrids and EV's and people enjoy the tuned driving of these said auto's.

I think 90% of people are clueless about the platforms that the auto's are built on and as we move to autonomous auto's it will be moot for all but the handful of us enthusiasts. 

Enjoy your CUV/SUV and plan to buy your performance auto that will be the play toy for weekends and nights out for date night.

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Problem is that most of these sites these days are not populated by ENTHUSIASTS like what U and I see as such. 70% of the guys U speak with are the equivalent of Clark Griswald (National Lampoons) and routinely take orders from their wives on what they should purchase. 90% of those probable don't even know what these are or are used for, let alone ever used either:

 I have all of these and have used them many times over my life.

Sadly my son does not have the interest in auto's that I grew up with, I figure some day all my tools will get sold off in a garage sale when I am very old or dead.

I hope that my son will find the passion some day, but only time will tell.

[Robert Hall]

I do recognize the C-clamp...have a few that I've used around the house on stuff.  I'm not a mechanic and don't do DIY auto maintenance, I leave that to the dealer, so don't have any specialized auto tools.  

My Dad long ago did DIY stuff like brake jobs, oil changes, 'points', spark plugs, etc, so I've inherited a bunch of tools that are in the barn down on the farm. 

[smk4565]

The Silverado outsold the RAV4 by 4,000 units.  And look at how many competitors the RAV4 has.  That small crossover segment is on fire.

Edited August 2, 2017 by smk4565

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Silverado outsold the RAV4 by 4,000 units.  And look at how many competitors the RAV4 has.  That small crossover segment is on fire.

Agree completely.

[Cmicasa the Great]

5 hours ago, dfelt said:

 

Enjoy your CUV/SUV and plan to buy your performance auto that will be the play toy for weekends and nights out for date night.

 I have all of these and have used them many times over my life.

Sadly my son does not have the interest in auto's that I grew up with, I figure some day all my tools will get sold off in a garage sale when I am very old or dead.

I hope that my son will find the passion some day, but only time will tell.

Maybe U will have to go out.. and just have another son...

[G. David Felt]

1 minute ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Maybe U will have to go out.. and just have another son...

Nope, got snipped to prevent that. No need or want for a baby at my stage in life.

 

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Nope, got snipped to prevent that. No need or want for a baby at my stage in life.

 

I had the same thing done...I am 51 and my youngest is 16...no more need for little kids around here!