Buick News: 2018 Buick Regal GS Shows Up With 310 Horsepower

[Drew Dowdell]

18 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

You are buying luxury when you buy a C300 though, not performance, 241 hp is fine for that buyer, and for around $52k they have a C43 with a 4.5 second 0-60 time, which is a lot of performance bang for the buck.

The Regal GS is like the Maxima, it is too much money for what it is.   $42,650 gets an Infiniti Q50 Premium AWD with the 3 liter turbo V6 (300 hp, 295 lb-ft).  So why pay $42k for a Maxima or Regal?  

The Q50 is a substantially less roomy car than the Maxima and it is plenty plenty fast enough for most drivers.  What it think puts most people off the Maxima is it's looks.

[surreal1272]

6 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The Q50 is a substantially less roomy car than the Maxima and it is plenty plenty fast enough for most drivers.  What it think puts most people off the Maxima is it's looks.

Funny thing is that I think the Maxima looks way better than the Q50 and the Regal looks far better (and with a hatch that is far more versatile) than both. 

 

I think I need to purchase my own set of goal posts too. Hopefully it has wheels on the bottom.

[oldshurst442]

23 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

You are buying luxury when you buy a C300 though, not performance, 241 hp

Problem is....BMW and M-B chasing BMW in the 1990s is EΧΑCTLY how they defined luxury for the 1990s and beyond: PERFORMANCE

I dont do well with others with double talk....

I like you SMK...but I dont like double talk and revisionist history. Please refrain from both.

 

[smk4565]

18 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Problem is....BMW and M-B chasing BMW in the 1990s is EΧΑCTLY how they defined luxury for the 1990s and beyond: PERFORMANCE

I dont do well with others with double talk....

I like you SMK...but I dont like double talk and revisionist history. Please refrain from both.

 

Mercedes has always been luxury first.   And they always have had an "adequate" power engine in the base model, but also in the past 40 years or so they have offered a big power engine also.  A 2000 E320 had like 228 hp, not bad for that time but not huge either.  In 2010 the E350 still had 268 hp base, adequate, but not a performance machine, but they offered 507 hp too.  Same with the C-class now 241 hp base because it is a luxury car first, but they will give you 503 hp if you want to pay for it.

BMW has always pushed handing and steering and suspension over horsepower, but they have pushed performance from the get go.

[smk4565]

50 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

You do understand that the Regal will start in the mid 20's right? Oh and Drew covered the other part of the problem.

Right the $25k start price of the Regal is what makes the GS more of a rip off.

This is an uphill battle segment, and a shrinking segment.  I remember when the Impala sold over 10,000 cars a month and that was 2-3 years ago, now it is under 3,000 per month.  The mid-size sedans are shrinking away too.   Malibu sales are in the dump and it is a new model, Cadillac sedans sales are tanking, the Bolt plant was idled because those aren't selling.  Cars don't sell unless you are a powerhouse like Camry and Accord, or 3-series and C-class in luxury.   It is just the way it is.

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

ATS V in all fairness is a very small portion of the sales.

I'm sure whatever the numbers are, they aren't huge.
I was just replying to "they can't sell any" nonsense. Hyperbole es muy grande.

Quote

Cars don't sell unless you are a powerhouse like Camry and Accord, or 3-series

3-series is down 25% m-t-m & 16% on the year. "Not selling" here, too, I guess. Because; percentages.

Edited July 21, 2017 by balthazar

[surreal1272]

15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Right the $25k start price of the Regal is what makes the GS more of a rip off.

This is an uphill battle segment, and a shrinking segment.  I remember when the Impala sold over 10,000 cars a month and that was 2-3 years ago, now it is under 3,000 per month.  The mid-size sedans are shrinking away too.   Malibu sales are in the dump and it is a new model, Cadillac sedans sales are tanking, the Bolt plant was idled because those aren't selling.  Cars don't sell unless you are a powerhouse like Camry and Accord, or 3-series and C-class in luxury.   It is just the way it is.

You really want to talke price difference rip offs while touting Mercedes? Where did you get the wheels for your goalpost? I'm asking for a friend. 

 

BTW, the Regal now has three very distinct models and the $25K starting price was to get those Verano holdovers. It running up to $39K is small change compared to the 4Matic CLA, which while $4K cheaper, it also offers far less equipment and far less power (along with fewer cylinders). It is priced just fine across all three models when compared to the competition. And again, the current model Regal GS has already beat the CLA in the most recent comparos. How do you think it's going to work out for the CLA when the '18 GS comes out? I'd be embarrassed, quite frankly, with all that talk about the "Best or Nothing" when Benz is clearly not always the best.  

Edited July 21, 2017 by surreal1272

[oldshurst442]

Id feel funny if I bought the hugely expensive AMG C Class version and some dorky middle management dude parked next to me at the mall with the 2.0T and the soccer mom and her daughter with her leased GLC walking back to her CUV with her Michael Korrs bag in hand would say to us "How cute! You both drive the same car!"

As you know, and say....M-B sells "luxury" and not performance with the C Class so the soccer mom wont know the difference between the AMG and the 2.0T

Even the middle management dude wont know the diff....

Ill gladly take the Buick Regal GS with the unrefined decade old V6 thank-you very much.

With the difference in price left over, Id rather buy  meself a real muscle car.

A Dodge Challenger V8 of some sort with the decade old Mercedes chassis of all ironies...

That way, I wont look like a poseur, nor would I think I was had by M-B!

Sorry SMK, you fail to convince that a C Class is some sort of luxury vehicle.

Those sales that the C Class gets just affirms the stance that a good lease makes it perfect for mainstream  mediocrity for middle management types that want so much to be in the big leagues like.

Ill give you this much....the 3 pointed star still has some punch to it.

Only time will tell if it will continue to be that way....

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Id feel funny if I bought the hugely expensive AMG C Class version and some dorky middle management dude parked next to me at the mall with the 2.0T and the soccer mom and her daughter with her leased GLC walking back to her CUV with her Michael Korrs bag in hand would say to us "How cute! You both drive the same car!"

As you know, and say....M-B sells "luxury" and not performance with the C Class so the soccer mom wont know the difference between the AMG and the 2.0T

Even the middle management dude wont know the diff....

Ill gladly take the Buick Regal GS with the unrefined decade old V6 thank-you very much.

With the difference in price left over, Id rather buy  meself a real muscle car.

A Dodge Challenger V8 of some sort with the decade old Mercedes chassis of all ironies...

That way, I wont look like a poseur, nor would I think I was had by M-B!

Sorry SMK, you fail to convince that a C Class is some sort of luxury vehicle.

Those sales that the C Class gets just affirms the stance that a good lease makes it perfect for mainstream  mediocrity for middle management types that want so much to be in the big leagues like.

Ill give you this much....the 3 pointed star still has some punch to it.

Only time will tell if it will continue to be that way....

 

 

 

I don't buy a car to follow the crowd, so I would agree.

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The Q50 is a substantially less roomy car than the Maxima and it is plenty plenty fast enough for most drivers.  What it think puts most people off the Maxima is it's looks.

I am going to argue with you on the Maxima here.  I find that it feels cheap, even in higher trim levels.

Q50 also is a car one would be forced to love in terms of styling IMHO.

[smk4565]

12 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

You really want to talke price difference rip offs while touting Mercedes? Where did you get the wheels for your goalpost? I'm asking for a friend. 

 

BTW, the Regal now has three very distinct models and the $25K starting price was to get those Verano holdovers. It running up to $39K is small change compared to the 4Matic CLA, which while $4K cheaper, it also offers far less equipment and far less power (along with fewer cylinders). It is priced just fine across all three models when compared to the competition. And again, the current model Regal GS has already beat the CLA in the most recent comparos. How do you think it's going to work out for the CLA when the '18 GS comes out? I'd be embarrassed, quite frankly, with all that talk about the "Best or Nothing" when Benz is clearly not always the best.  

Except a CLA is smaller than the Verano was.  Buick gave up on the CLA segment because fornone it is small and for two the Verano wasn't that good.  The Regal is sized like an E-class, if Buick wants to put their mid-sized up against the best mid-size luxury car in the world bring it on.

I like that the Regal has the wagon and hatch back trims I think it makes it different than the Maxima or TSX or Camry.  What makes no sense to me is $40k for a GS model with less torque than the turbo 4 model.  And the GS is more money than the Lacrosse with the same engine and the Lacrosse is larger and nicer.  The GS should be $33k or if they want $40k put a turbo V6 in.

[surreal1272]

23 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Except a CLA is smaller than the Verano was.  Buick gave up on the CLA segment because fornone it is small and for two the Verano wasn't that good.  The Regal is sized like an E-class, if Buick wants to put their mid-sized up against the best mid-size luxury car in the world bring it on.

I like that the Regal has the wagon and hatch back trims I think it makes it different than the Maxima or TSX or Camry.  What makes no sense to me is $40k for a GS model with less torque than the turbo 4 model.  And the GS is more money than the Lacrosse with the same engine and the Lacrosse is larger and nicer.  The GS should be $33k or if they want $40k put a turbo V6 in.

The current Regal is not E Class size (4 inches shorter) and you are making excuses because that Regal spanked that CLA. Since the Regal undercuts the smaller CLA by $7K, I guess that makes the CLA grossly overpriced yet not a peep from you on that.

 

The GS is a top tier Regal (with a V6 regardless of your silly torque statement) and is cheaper than a top tier Lacrosse. By your logic I guess we can bitch about the CLA crossing the price line of the C Class. Sorry but your entire argument is just bogus. 

 

Good grief. Your arguments get to tired and old. I've made my point as has everyone else. Mercedes is not god and they far more overpriced than any Buick, end of story. 

Edited July 21, 2017 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

16 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The Q50 is a substantially less roomy car than the Maxima and it is plenty plenty fast enough for most drivers.  What it think puts most people off the Maxima is it's looks.

Agree, looks of the Maxima and Q50 are very polarizing. Love / Hate auto's.

Course both cars are tight on room for me, so personal body size makes a difference.

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 What makes no sense to me is $40k for a GS model with less torque than the turbo 4 model.  And the GS is more money than the Lacrosse with the same engine and the Lacrosse is larger and nicer.  The GS should be $33k or if they want $40k put a turbo V6 in.

So you're saying that a V6 powered auto with more horsepower and torque at $40K is not worth it compared to the same CLA version that is a Turbo 4 banger only with less horsepower and torque but $10K higher priced!

Yet for only a Turbo 4 banger you have to spend $50,000 plus in your CLA 4matic to get the performance version versus $40,000 for a Buick Regal with V6. Comparing interior to interior, Buick is way nicer looking, but that is subjective which I acknowledge. Exterior, they both are a rather bland coupe design. 

Turbo 4 banger with 208 HP @ 5,500 rpm, 258 Lb-ft of torque at 1,250 rpm

Buick V6 2 310hp & 282 lb-ft

[Frisky Dingo]

On 7/20/2017 at 8:52 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

For the record and perspective, the bigger and heavier Lacrosse AWD with this same engine and an 8-speed is a 5.8 second car. The ATS 3.6 V6 8-speed does it in 5.6. Regal GS AWD with the 9-speed should shave a couple off the Lacrosse, making it a 5.5 or 5.6 second car.

If we're going to compare that to other sedans at around $40k, the C300 4-matic is a 6.0 - 6.4 second car depending on who you read.  Think about that for a second to let it sink in... the Buick Lacrosse AWD is faster than the smaller and more expensive C-Class. 

The 330xi is a 5.5 second car with plastic seats for the same price as the GS. You'll get there 0.1 seconds faster in a base A4 Quattro, but then you're in a base model car instead of one with heated/cooled seats and all of the other performance goodies and convenience upgrades that come in a top spec Buick.  Additionally, I've had great results in fuel economy with the latest GM 3.6 with cylinder deactivation. GM doesn't play to the test here and regularly beats the EPA rating with this engine. The AWD 2017 Lacrosse will match or beat my Encore's mpgs on a highway cruise. I never hit EPA in the older version of the 3.6. 

So for people who buy solely on 0-60 times in the entry luxury segment, that choice is clear. The only way you could justify otherwise is by being a badge snob. 

The Audi offers more tech, a superior AWD system, a manual transmission, a knockout interior, and I'm sure crisper driving dynamics.

Yeah, no reason other than badge someone would buy one over a Buick. 

[Frisky Dingo]

On 7/20/2017 at 10:03 AM, Stew said:

Not when I can get a Fusion a Fusion Sport for 35k with handling, AWD, and a turbo 2.7 that will run this off the road.  A 200S AWD with just a few less HP could be had for less than 30k, you can get a Charger Scat Pack for this price.  That is only slightly less than the Chevy SS which came basically fully loaded.  no, i am not impressed, especially since things like the HUD, etc are extra. 

New Camry has 306 HP and will be considerably lighter.  It also looks good ix XSE form and even comes with a HUD, loaded is around 36k and only the AWD is missing.  Load this up to those standards and tyou look at at least 45k.  The Accord gets a torque boost and while lower in the HP dept is supposed to be 200 pounds lighter than the already light current models.  I would expect a fully loaded model to in over the Camry and SIX SPEED MANUAL!!!!  EVEN ON THE 2.0T!   The Stinger is a nice piece and has more going for it than a new entry in an already crowded and dying segment. 

Fusion Sport is a joke to drive. It's a lot of power in a decent-for-a-family-sedan chassis. That's it.

[cp-the-nerd]

7 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Fusion Sport is a joke to drive. It's a lot of power in a decent-for-a-family-sedan chassis. That's it.

Sadly, that's probably all it needs to outsell the Regal GS and win bench racing matches among casual enthusiasts, but I hope that's not the case.

[A Horse With No Name]

36 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

The Audi offers more tech, a superior AWD system, a manual transmission, a knockout interior, and I'm sure crisper driving dynamics.

Yeah, no reason other than badge someone would buy one over a Buick. 

Quoted for Truth...!

24 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:

Sadly, that's probably all it needs to outsell the Regal GS and win bench racing matches among casual enthusiasts, but I hope that's not the case.

To quote PT Barnum, there is one born every minute....which explains a lot about the popularity of certain car brands...

31 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Fusion Sport is a joke to drive. It's a lot of power in a decent-for-a-family-sedan chassis. That's it.

I have already made my feelings about Ford perfectly clear here...and yes, Audi would be my pick here over Benz....or Ford...

But it is Friday...everyone get something cold and refreshing to drink and listen to some music or something.

Trying to take a chill pill myself.

[Drew Dowdell]

2 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

The Audi offers more tech, a superior AWD system, a manual transmission, a knockout interior, and I'm sure crisper driving dynamics.

Yeah, no reason other than badge someone would buy one over a Buick. 

Again, we're taking loaded Regal GS Vs. Base A4 here. A base A4 has a basic interior that is nothing flashy, certainly not knockout.  Somewhere between 1% to 2% of drivers opt for a manual, so it's not even on the radar. What "more tech" does a base A4 offer that a Regal GS won't have? The GS has a more advanced suspension. Navi, Car play, the twinclutch AWD performs great and it sounds like it's enhanced for the GS. You get big brembo brakes....

For $40k the GS is going to be the better car. I'm not talking about the top end S4 models that are $20k more, that's Cadillac's fight to fight.

So I stand by my statement... For $40k, the Regal GS offers more luxury and performance and any of the luxury Germans at the same price. 

[Frisky Dingo]

18 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Again, we're taking loaded Regal GS Vs. Base A4 here. A base A4 has a basic interior that is nothing flashy, certainly not knockout.  Somewhere between 1% to 2% of drivers opt for a manual, so it's not even on the radar. What "more tech" does a base A4 offer that a Regal GS won't have? The GS has a more advanced suspension. Navi, Car play, the twinclutch AWD performs great and it sounds like it's enhanced for the GS. You get big brembo brakes....

For $40k the GS is going to be the better car. I'm not talking about the top end S4 models that are $20k more, that's Cadillac's fight to fight.

So I stand by my statement... For $40k, the Regal GS offers more luxury and performance and any of the luxury Germans at the same price. 

That wasn't your statement, though.

Your statement was that there was no reason to buy another car other than badge.

[Drew Dowdell]

29 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

That wasn't your statement, though.

Your statement was that there was no reason to buy another car other than badge.

I thought I was pretty clear when I was listing the options of Audis Benzes and BMWs at the same price as the GS. To get GS level equipment with at best equal performance, you'll be spending $10k+ more in a premium German dealership.

[regfootball]

it should be noted that the v6 in the GS, even if it is non turbo, is the newly updated v6 that the Cadillacs first got a year ago.  So the comment was made its ten years old, but actually it is the newest design and manufacture of the 3.6.

[Drew Dowdell]

5 minutes ago, regfootball said:

it should be noted that the v6 in the GS, even if it is non turbo, is the newly updated v6 that the Cadillacs first got a year ago.  So the comment was made its ten years old, but actually it is the newest design and manufacture of the 3.6.

Yes. It is in fact almost entirely new. The block only somewhat the same, the rest is new.

[regfootball]

is it the same as the Camaro's too?  I know the numbers are not the same, but its got to he highly similar.

[Frisky Dingo]

17 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I thought I was pretty clear when I was listing the options of Audis Benzes and BMWs at the same price as the GS. To get GS level equipment with at best equal performance, you'll be spending $10k+ more in a premium German dealership.

 

Luxury sedan shoppers don't buy like that, though. Especially entry level models. A BMW that is 10K more as you put it, will lease the same. That's the issue they'll face.

[Drew Dowdell]

On 7/20/2017 at 9:52 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

If we're going to compare that to other sedans at around $40k, the C300 4-matic is a 6.0 - 6.4 second car depending on who you read.  Think about that for a second to let it sink in... the Buick Lacrosse AWD is faster than the smaller and more expensive C-Class. 

The 330xi is a 5.5 second car with plastic seats for the same price as the GS. You'll get there 0.1 seconds faster in a base A4 Quattro, but then you're in a base model car instead of one with heated/cooled seats and all of the other performance goodies and convenience upgrades that come in a top spec Buick.  

Since it was clearly missed in my original post.

[balthazar]

6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Except a CLA is smaller than the Verano was.

Only thing smaller is the CLA has no back seat.

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Again, we're taking loaded Regal GS Vs. Base A4 here. A base A4 has a basic interior that is nothing flashy, certainly not knockout.  Somewhere between 1% to 2% of drivers opt for a manual, so it's not even on the radar. What "more tech" does a base A4 offer that a Regal GS won't have? The GS has a more advanced suspension. Navi, Car play, the twinclutch AWD performs great and it sounds like it's enhanced for the GS. You get big brembo brakes....

For $40k the GS is going to be the better car. I'm not talking about the top end S4 models that are $20k more, that's Cadillac's fight to fight.

So I stand by my statement... For $40k, the Regal GS offers more luxury and performance and any of the luxury Germans at the same price. 

This is an A4 interior, yes it won't have a lot of bells and whistles at $40k, but there are still options on top of the GS that can run the price up too.  I'd love to see a Nurburgring lap time for the Regal GS.

Question is does the Regal GS offer more luxury and performance than the LaCrosse that is equal price?  Does it offer more than the Maxima, TSX, Volvo S6, MKZ?   Kia Cadenza has Buick level luxury and a 290 hp V6.  And pretty much all the cars on that list are slow sellers.

Edited July 21, 2017 by smk4565

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I thought I was pretty clear when I was listing the options of Audis Benzes and BMWs at the same price as the GS. To get GS level equipment with at best equal performance, you'll be spending $10k+ more in a premium German dealership.

But the German trio are luxury brands with cache.  The 3/4-series and C-class have a lot of volume, people are willing to pay $50k for a 4-cylinder version of either of those cars.  The previous Regal GS was a sales dud, so they raised the price $2,000???  Doesn't make sense.  

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

Luxury sedan shoppers don't buy like that, though. Especially entry level models. A BMW that is 10K more as you put it, will lease the same. That's the issue they'll face.

Yep.  Because the BMW or Mercedes will  hold value, the Regal won't be able to offer lease rates like that, and they'll probably end up on Avis lots wrecking resale value.  

[G. David Felt]

34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Yep.  Because the BMW or Mercedes will  hold value, the Regal won't be able to offer lease rates like that, and they'll probably end up on Avis lots wrecking resale value.  

Disagree,  In a 25 mile radius I found the following:

Autotrader.com for washington, big tech state with lots of cash shows that the CLA family for a 2 year old model with mid 20K miles sells for half the price brand new. I do not see how that is holding value when 2 years and 50% drop in value.

Total CLA 4matic's available for sale = 30

Autotrader.com for the Buick shows a fraction of the GS on the used car lots, those that are 2yrs old are in the high teens to low 20's for miles and selling for the same half price of when it was new.

GS AWD available for sale same 25 mile radius = 4

Expand it out to 50 miles and you have 52 available:

MB = 43

Buick = 9

Expand to 100 miles radius and you have 60 available:

MB = 51

Buick = 9

Both models seem to stay low miles, both are selling at 50% off new prices when originally sold.

So tell me how the Regal DOES NOT hold value? Seems to me that the Regal is holding fine as most auto's after a couple years are loosing half their value. So the Best or Nothing Ultimate luxury auto line is loosing 50% value like everyone else after 2 years. Might as well buy certified used compared to new.

[surreal1272]

16 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Disagree,  In a 25 mile radius I found the following:

Autotrader.com for washington, big tech state with lots of cash shows that the CLA family for a 2 year old model with mid 20K miles sells for half the price brand new. I do not see how that is holding value when 2 years and 50% drop in value.

Total CLA 4matic's available for sale = 30

Autotrader.com for the Buick shows a fraction of the GS on the used car lots, those that are 2yrs old are in the high teens to low 20's for miles and selling for the same half price of when it was new.

GS AWD available for sale same 25 mile radius = 4

Expand it out to 50 miles and you have 52 available:

MB = 43

Buick = 9

Expand to 100 miles radius and you have 60 available:

MB = 51

Buick = 9

Both models seem to stay low miles, both are selling at 50% off new prices when originally sold.

So tell me how the Regal DOES NOT hold value? Seems to me that the Regal is holding fine as most auto's after a couple years are loosing half their value. So the Best or Nothing Ultimate luxury auto line is loosing 50% value like everyone else after 2 years. Might as well buy certified used compared to new.

Not to mention the German have $h!ty resale and then some. When I can pick up a 2008 S Class for $14K, that tells me all I need to know. 

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/ctd/d/mercedes-benz-class-dr/6227281584.html

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

But the German trio are luxury brands with cache.  The 3/4-series and C-class have a lot of volume, people are willing to pay $50k for a 4-cylinder version of either of those cars.  The previous Regal GS was a sales dud, so they raised the price $2,000???  Doesn't make sense.  

How many more times do you want to be wrong today? The Regal is $2K LESS than the outgoing model and no longer has the Verano overlapping it.

 

"It goes on sale in November with a starting price of $25,915, which is $2,000 less than the outgoing model. The lower starting price is to retain Verano buyers with the discontinuation of the lower-priced sedan."

 

And those buyers you speak of are mostly leases because no one want the maintenance hassle and $h!ty residual values after two years. Fact  

 

[smk4565]

25 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Not to mention the German have $h!ty resale and then some. When I can pick up a 2008 S Class for $14K, that tells me all I need to know. 

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/ctd/d/mercedes-benz-class-dr/6227281584.html

What does a 10 year old Buick with 135,000 miles sell for?

16 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

How many more times do you want to be wrong today? The Regal is $2K LESS than the outgoing model and no longer has the Verano overlapping it.

 

"It goes on sale in November with a starting price of $25,915, which is $2,000 less than the outgoing model. The lower starting price is to retain Verano buyers with the discontinuation of the lower-priced sedan."

 

And those buyers you speak of are mostly leases because no one want the maintenance hassle and $h!ty residual values after two years. Fact  

 

The GS model saw a $3,500 price increase.   $36,450 for a 2017 AWD Regal GS.  If they cut the price on that $2,000 and priced this car at $34,450 rather than $39,990 I wouldn't have much issue with it.

Edited July 22, 2017 by smk4565

[surreal1272]

22 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

What does a 10 year old Buick with 135,000 miles sell for?

The GS model saw a $3,500 price increase.   $36,450 for a 2017 AWD Regal GS.  If they cut the price on that $2,000 and priced this car at $34,450 rather than $39,990 I wouldn't have much issue with it.

False comparison since there isn't a Buick that sells for $80K+ new. The sheer precerntage drop on that car is mind boggling considering its "cache". It's why you probably got a smoking deal on your old E Class  

 

And again, GM does not have to justify its price to you when Drew pretty clearly laid out why the GS is priced just right against the competition. The new one is leaps and bounds better than the outgoing model so a price increase is to be expected, just like everyone else does when they put out a much better model, Benz included. 

22 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

What does a 10 year old Buick with 135,000 miles sell for?

The GS model saw a $3,500 price increase.   $36,450 for a 2017 AWD Regal GS.  If they cut the price on that $2,000 and priced this car at $34,450 rather than $39,990 I wouldn't have much issue with it.

False comparison since there isn't a Buick that sells for $80K+ new. 

 

And again, GM does not have to justify its price to you when Drew pretty clearly laid out why the GS is priced just right against the competition. The new one is leaps and bounds better than the outgoing model so a price increase is to be expected, just like everyone else does when they put out a much better model, Benz included. This article is four years old but I don't see any Buicks but it is littered with German cars. 

https://www.google.com/amp/jalopnik.com/5982789/the-most-depreciated-cars-of-the-past-ten-years/amp

[smk4565]

I don't really care what they price the GS at, I am just saying that at that price point not many will buy it.  The $25,000 base Regal I think is very well priced.   And the GM fans want to say, it doesn't matter if it is low volume, it is a niche product, or they think it will sell because it beats the German 3.  But we heard that about the Pontiac G8, its dead, the Chevy SS is dead too.  The LaCrosse/Impala/XTS are on the chopping block.  People keep saying how good the XTS V-sport is, or how the LaCrosse is a Lexus beater, but all these sedans are failing.  

[balthazar]

All EVERY sedans are "failing", or- what you mean to say- sales are edging down.  Lacrosse outsells every Lexus car except the rebadged Camry ES.  Lexus cars are down 27% this year.  Guess all other Lexus cars should 'go away' also.

This fanatical fixation on sales charts above everything else is baffling.

[surreal1272]

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

All EVERY sedans are "failing", or- what you mean to say- sales are edging down.  Lacrosse outsells every Lexus car except the rebadged Camry ES.  Lexus cars are down 27% this year.  Guess all other Lexus cars should 'go away' also.

This fanatical fixation on sales charts above everything else is baffling.

This what happens when you use a mobile goal post. I'm done with the excuses. German cars are resale $h! after their leases run out and leases are the only way that the Germans can move a bulk of their cars here because no one wants a long term commitment with them for reasons already stated here. 

 

Back to the CLA beating Regal GS. 

[smk4565]

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

All EVERY sedans are "failing", or- what you mean to say- sales are edging down.  Lacrosse outsells every Lexus car except the rebadged Camry ES.  Lexus cars are down 27% this year.  Guess all other Lexus cars should 'go away' also.

This fanatical fixation on sales charts above everything else is baffling.

The Camry ES is the LaCrosse's closest competitor at Lexus, and the Lacrosse is brand new, the ES has been around.  If the new Camry spawns an all new ES350, that will probably help make GM's decision to kill the LaCrosse in 2019 even easier.  Lexus sedans are in trouble too though.  

[surreal1272]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

What does a 10 year old Buick with 135,000 miles sell for?

The GS model saw a $3,500 price increase.   $36,450 for a 2017 AWD Regal GS.  If they cut the price on that $2,000 and priced this car at $34,450 rather than $39,990 I wouldn't have much issue with it.

Just stop. You didn't have the increase right and you are completely incapable of comparing apples to apples. The price increase is justified much in the same way Mercedes justified a $2K increase on the CLA barely one year after it came out (thus killing those wonderful "Get a Mercedes for less than $30K" ads) You have issues with the price no matter what because it doesn't have a Benz emblem on the hood. Stop pretending otherwise. 

[G. David Felt]

15 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Not to mention the German have $h!ty resale and then some. When I can pick up a 2008 S Class for $14K, that tells me all I need to know. 

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/ctd/d/mercedes-benz-class-dr/6227281584.html

OUCH, I would not touch that as it is ready for big time expense replacement parts. After all just a headlight assembly is $5K. Crazy 

[surreal1272]

Just now, dfelt said:

OUCH, I would not touch that as it is ready for big time expense replacement parts. After all just a headlight assembly is $5K. Crazy 

But that's the price you pay for top notch German engineering lol. The best or nothing. 

[G. David Felt]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The GS model saw a $3,500 price increase.   $36,450 for a 2017 AWD Regal GS.  If they cut the price on that $2,000 and priced this car at $34,450 rather than $39,990 I wouldn't have much issue with it.

Just accept the clear fact that you have issue with this as it is priced competitively against your MB products and give more bang for the buck! People all over are seeing that German brands are failing to live up to the hype and moving goal posts. American is bringing their A game to compete and doing it better than MB.

[riviera74]

Th best or nothing.  Can MB explain the CLA then?  That is the problem with German cars: the repair bills tend to be stratospheric, especially compared to anything GM.

[G. David Felt]

On topic for this New Awesome Regal GS with the V6 and yes while I am not thrilled with the low torque, for the $10K savings over say an MB CLA that has less hp and torque, there are plenty of very cool performance add on's. I see you can already get performance tuned chips from GM and a host of 3rd party players that will clearly up the level that this car puts out putting it very close to the CLA AMG version which is $30K higher and still save you $20K plus.

This is an awesome car that can be made into an ultimate sleeper. Very exciting indeed.  

[surreal1272]

4 hours ago, dfelt said:

On topic for this New Awesome Regal GS with the V6 and yes while I am not thrilled with the low torque, for the $10K savings over say an MB CLA that has less hp and torque, there are plenty of very cool performance add on's. I see you can already get performance tuned chips from GM and a host of 3rd party players that will clearly up the level that this car puts out putting it very close to the CLA AMG version which is $30K higher and still save you $20K plus.

This is an awesome car that can be made into an ultimate sleeper. Very exciting indeed.  

If I were in the market, I would be taking a serious look at the AWD wagon. 

[smk4565]

The Regal GS is competing with the Avalon, Camry V6 Maxima, Chrysler 300, etc that all have 300 hp V6s for less money.  And a Kia Stinger that has 370 hp and rear drive for similar money.  The Stinger does 0-60 in the 4's.

We sort of forgot about the Alfa Romeo Guilia that is also $40k and in base trim easily can out perform a Regal GS.  And the Alfa isn't really selling all that great, and look at how good a car it is.

[balthazar]

So let's all sit back and watch the kia stinger become the #1 seller in the segment, and all the rest of the models fold up their tents. What do you think smk, will it take a whole 24 months for the segment to be made up of 1 car?

[surreal1272]

16 minutes ago, balthazar said:

So let's all sit back and watch the kia stinger become the #1 seller in the segment, and all the rest of the models fold up their tents. What do you think smk, will it take a whole 24 months for the segment to be made up of 1 car?

Exactly. Might as well just give up because SMK said so. Can't have all that pesky competition to worry about so might as well do nothing and let other get the sales. 

 

I am just baffled by that kind of "logic". 

 

And the Alfa is still an Alfa. If this has to be explained, in relation to low sales, then there is just no hope for some. 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

 And the Alfa isn't really selling all that great, and look at how good a car it is.

Have you even got your butt in the seat of one? They are way over rated. Once in the car you can see just how cheap a car FCA built. Sorry but now it is not that good of a car and I have been in them.

[A Horse With No Name]

19 hours ago, balthazar said:

All EVERY sedans are "failing", or- what you mean to say- sales are edging down.  Lacrosse outsells every Lexus car except the rebadged Camry ES.  Lexus cars are down 27% this year.  Guess all other Lexus cars should 'go away' also.

This fanatical fixation on sales charts above everything else is baffling.

Things are cyclical.  I don't understand the worshipping of sales numbers without actual affection for cars.  The last full size American station wagons rolled off the line decades ago...I love them...by the logic here I should give that up and love me a Honda CR-V.

22 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Not to mention the German have $h!ty resale and then some. When I can pick up a 2008 S Class for $14K, that tells me all I need to know. 

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/ctd/d/mercedes-benz-class-dr/6227281584.html

Damn, I feel better now...was looking at an auto cross prepped 08 Miata for a similar amount...when a modified Miata sells for more than an S class...hmmm...