Afterthoughts: What's the Right Size Vehicle?

[Frisky Dingo]

It's engine is absolutely not competitive in it's class, and lags in many areas much, much, much further than it excels at one thing- comfortable driving. 

[cp-the-nerd]

17 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

It's engine is absolutely not competitive in it's class, and lags in many areas much, much, much further than it excels at one thing- comfortable driving. 

That's entirely your subjective and highly debatable opinion. If you want to believe an engine that provides statistically, provably competitive acceleration and fuel economy is "absolutely not competitive in its class," that's your prerogative. Sorry about your dog.

[Frisky Dingo]

47 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:

That's entirely your subjective and highly debatable opinion. If you want to believe an engine that provides statistically, provably competitive acceleration and fuel economy is "absolutely not competitive in its class," that's your prerogative. Sorry about your dog.

Well, I didn't have a dog, but I am sorry about your inability to see past a badge and buy something other than a GM.

[cp-the-nerd]

19 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Well, I didn't have a dog, but I am sorry about your inability to see past a badge and buy something other than a GM.

And yet I haven't put forth a single brand-biased argument in this thread, starting with my comment recommending the Civic, Mazda 3, or Cruze hatchbacks. You can't put forth an objective reason I'm wrong, so you fall back on the "fanboy" label.

[regfootball]

i kind of feel guilty here like i might have spurred some bag off on the Cruze but the truth is I really love the Cruze hatchback, and the Cruze in general.  I think people expect way too much out of some stereotype of what a hatchback should be.

My commentary was just limited to that the good looking sexy roofline maybe tapers down a bit much to the extent that you think maybe it 'could' have a little bit more length and height in the cargo area.  I think i am ok with either side of the fence here, if style wins over a bit of cargo space, it's fair to like that.  If the rear shape is slightly less sexy but had something more along the lines of an Elantra GT rear end that could be ok too.  I do really love the Cruze hatch.  Last time I got my malibu worked on at the dealer they had a loaded orange cruze premier hatch on the showfloor and i just sat in it for like 20 minutes.  Since this thread is about packaging, i do really feel that compact car wise it's a great feeling interior, its sporty, has just enough space for the class (albeit smaller than the new civic) and for people like my sister who would be hatch intenders but aren't bogged down by the car needing to emulate a GTi or some other 'performance hatch', it is a great blend of attitude and every day usefulness.

Back in 2008 I had my sights set hard on a Saturn Astra and I wanted one badly and was a hair away from pulling the trigger.  What i liked about that car was the slightly more upright rear end was still stylish.  So i tend to identify small hatches more by that and the original Focus.  I admit the original Focus these days would look fat and bulky.

Maybe the rules of what a hatch is has more leeway now as crossovers go to the folks with more concern for ultimate cargo flexibility and so hatches now don't need to be full utility knives anymore.

My mom wants a CTS wagon vs an SRX because it sits lower and I explained to her the SRX has much more useful cargo room.  The CTS wagon is more of a 'long hatch' to me but she may be happy with one if and when she commits to get a newer ride.  I have to tell her to sit or get off the pot though because low mile CTS wagons are almost vaporware now.  And how is a 4200 pound CTS wagon any sort of dynamic performing advantage over a 4400 pound SRX?  My ultimate point here is that I think the CTS wagon as a shape but maybe on a simpler FWD platform may be the sweetspot for some.  The new Regal wagon has a dramatically extended overhang which is very useful (and very contrasting with the sportback).  But it is definitely a wagon.

Back to the Cruze, i think they should keep the 1.4 as the LS engine.  Make the 1.5 an option on the LT.  Put an all new 1.8t or 2.0t in a hopped up version for those who really think a sport hatch is needed.  Cruze is way quieter than Mazda3 and Civic.  Mazda3 is not that good and Civic is loud and tacky.  New impreza I don't understand any appeal.

 

Ford blew a huge chance with the current Focus.  The terrible and broken dual clutch ruined it for many owners and the 2.0 never got upgraded to a good 4 pot turbo.

 

[Robert Hall]

As someone who has owned 5 hatchbacks (2 cars, 3 SUVs) I'm more a fan of the more upright hatches...of today's models, I'd have to look closely at the Golf and Golf SportWagen...

Edited July 12, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

As someone who has owned 5 hatchbacks (2 cars, 3 SUVs) I'm more a fan of the more upright hatches...of today's models, I'd have to look closely at the Golf and Golf SportWagen...

Agreed.

2 hours ago, cp-the-nerd said:

And yet I haven't put forth a single brand-biased argument in this thread, starting with my comment recommending the Civic, Mazda 3, or Cruze hatchbacks. You can't put forth an objective reason I'm wrong, so you fall back on the "fanboy" label.

I understand all three choices, I do disagree with Reg Football and think new Imprezza belongs here with the strong resale, upgraded interior, unique AWD system, and decent packaging.

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Well, I didn't have a dog, but I am sorry about your inability to see past a badge and buy something other than a GM.

You have kids, they might want one some day.

Also agree with Reg, Focus outside of Titanium or ST trim is back of the pack. Will probably never own one but I do love the ST.

[regfootball]

Gotta give ford credit though. The current focus shape first arrived in 2011. They sort of led the pack in de nerding compacts. It's just time they invested into some refinement. 

[G. David Felt]

On 7/11/2017 at 6:49 PM, smk4565 said:

Stand up hood ornament it still Boss on a sedan.  The S-class and Rolls-Royce Phantom have stand up hood ornaments.  Only the big dogs have it now.

Yes the Dying Dinosaurs that really need a modern update and most people will not ever own. While I get the nostalgia for the past, leave it there and move forward.

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Yes the Dying Dinosaurs that really need a modern update and most people will not ever own. While I get the nostalgia for the past, leave it there and move forward.

Excellent words...

[frogger]

11 hours ago, regfootball said:

Gotta give ford credit though. The current focus shape first arrived in 2011. They sort of led the pack in de nerding compacts. It's just time they invested into some refinement. 

I thought the Mazda3 in 2004 was pretty good in that regard.  Especially compared to the Focus of that era.

 

[Robert Hall]

Used to work with a guy that drove a 2010 Mazdaspeed 3...rode in a few times, seemed like a nice little car.

[A Horse With No Name]

40 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Used to work with a guy that drove a 2010 Mazdaspeed 3...rode in a few times, seemed like a nice little car.

It is, but the Focus ST and upgraded GTI made it obsolete in a hurry.  Even the fanboys couldn't sell them off fast enough.

50 minutes ago, frogger said:

I thought the Mazda3 in 2004 was pretty good in that regard.  Especially compared to the Focus of that era.

 

My daughters Ohio-rusty 2005 keeps plugging along with 173 thou on the Odometer....neat little car, just drove it yesterday.

Edited July 13, 2017 by A Horse With No Name

[regfootball]

On 7/13/2017 at 10:52 AM, frogger said:

I thought the Mazda3 in 2004 was pretty good in that regard.  Especially compared to the Focus of that era.

 

true dat. but then even Mazda went away from that.

[frogger]

On 7/14/2017 at 6:08 PM, regfootball said:

true dat. but then even Mazda went away from that.

Second gen was a bit of a letdown.. But third is a really nice car..

 

[regfootball]

An excoworker bought a new previous gen Mazda3 with the new skyactivs when they came out, and all while knowing and seeing the new 3 design.  He said he didn't like the new Mazda3 design.  I think the previous M3 design was a big market hit and i think the new one is underwhelming in comparison, even if the interior trimmings are nicer.   Part of it i think for him was he liked the size and packaging and silhouette of the previous hatch design.

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, regfootball said:

An excoworker bought a new previous gen Mazda3 with the new skyactivs when they came out, and all while knowing and seeing the new 3 design.  He said he didn't like the new Mazda3 design.  I think the previous M3 design was a big market hit and i think the new one is underwhelming in comparison, even if the interior trimmings are nicer.   Part of it i think for him was he liked the size and packaging and silhouette of the previous hatch design.

For a premium small Hatchback I would buy a Wolfsburg Golf.

[regfootball]

he autocrosses his.  i think that was why he liked the last gen mazda3, they sort of had cred for that.

[A Horse With No Name]

17 hours ago, regfootball said:

he autocrosses his.  i think that was why he liked the last gen mazda3, they sort of had cred for that.

They do have a nice Chassis set up...daughter wants to autocross hers before it goes to the great parking lot in the sky...

[Drew Dowdell]

This is the right size car for me.

[ykX]

35 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

This is the right size car for me.

I thought you just turned 39, not 69?

Edited November 9, 2017 by ykX

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, ykX said:

I thought you just turned 39, not 69?

I've been in my 60s since I was 5 years old... at least in regards to my taste in cars.

These were my first loves as a kid

 

 

[oldshurst442]

I dont think age has anything to do with it.

You like what you like. You are comfortable in driving in whatever car you want.

Anecdote:

PROLOGUE:

I too...ALWAYS loved a big car. I knew this too, at the age of 5 years old.

OK...there is a difference in eras between Drew and I. I was 5 years old in 1978. Fullsizers were downsized by then, but were still big and the older fullsized cars were still on the road. It was easier for someone to prefer the fullsized cars versus the absolute dinky-ness of Honda  CVCCs and Chevy Chevettes back then.

But...I NEVER preferred Corvettes over Trans Ams (bigger and taller car than the Vette and the Trans Am always  MY #1 choice for sports cars) and I knew that midsized muscle like a GTO was my bag, baby.

 

CHAPTER ONE: (where the anecdote really starts)

In highschool (starting in the fall of 1986 if I remember correctly), us boys, would talk about cars...

All the boys, as usual, would mention Ferraris (Magnum PI's Ferrari and the F40 and the 512TT) and Lamborghinis (Countach) and Porsche (911 and 959) and Vettes.

I would have NONE of those...my friends would ask me what is MY favorite when I would say no way to those! 

I would say...these:

 

 

 

"LIMOUSINES???!!!"  They'd question.

"Yes! LIMOUSINES!!!" Id answer.

"You could only fit one blonde in a Ferrari. I could fit an endless amount of them in my limo!"

 

There is NOTHING old fogey about preferring bigger cars, now is there? ( a limo is a big damned car that doesnt really driveall that fast or corners all too well...something like whippersnappers prefer, right?)

Later on as the years went by...in about 1994...I was 21...I saw this scene in a movie...and I thought to myself...SCREW LIMOS...A BUS IS THE WAY TO GO!!!

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442 Agree, nothing better than room in a large auto for lovely ladies!  

[Drew Dowdell]

I have never been into sports cars.  My parents always bought obscure shitboxes growing up, Fiat Wagon, VW Type III Squareback, Subaru GL Wagon, Dodge Colt Vista Wagon. I was enamored by the big GM land yachts of the time because they had power windows, power antenna, air conditioning, and doors that sounded like a bank vault.  The Cadillac Seville and Eldorado looks like something old-school movie stars from the '30s might drive today (today being 1983).  The fascination stuck, and here I am today,