Review: 2017 Cadillac CT6 Platinum 3.0TT

[William Maley]

There has been a common theme for most of the Cadillac vehicles I have reviewed over the past few years. They are always so close to being up there with the best, but there is one thing or trait that knocks them down. Such examples include interior appointments that don’t match up with the price being asked, confusing infotainment systems, and engines that don’t quite match up with the image being portrayed. This was floating around in the back of my head when a 2017 Cadillac CT6 Platinum rolled up onto my driveway. This is an important model for Cadillac as it is taking on the likes of the BMW 7-Series and Mercedes-Benz S-Class. The little things can make or break a sedan in the class.

Seeing the Cadillac CT6 for the first time at Detroit Auto Show a few years ago, I wasn’t too impressed. The toned-down Art & Science design made me feel that the CT6 blended in with other luxury sedans. But after spending a bit of time with this CT6, I grew to like the design. Yes, the design language has lost some edge found on other Cadillacs, but there is still some sharpness with hard angles and bold lines. The Platinum adds some touches that really bring out the CT6’s shape. A chrome grille helps give the model a more imposing front end and a set of optional 20-inch wheels finished in ‘Midnight Silver’ do an excellent job of filling in the wheel wells. 

If there has been a consistent weak point to Cadillac’s recent models, it has to be interior. On first glance, it seems they have it nailed down with a modern design and quality materials. But when you sit inside and begin to take a closer look, that illusion begins to go away. A fair amount of the materials used doesn't quite match up the luxury aura being presented such as the sheet piano black trim used for touch-sensitive controls on a number of Cadillac models. But the brand is improving as we noted in our XT5 review, and the CT6 is much the same. There is a noticeable step-up in terms of materials such as fine leather, carbon fiber accents, and wood trim. This comes wrapped in a handsomely-designed dashboard. There are some areas Cadillac still needs to do some work on such as the plasticity controls for the climate control system. 

The front seats are a treat to sit in thanks to the right amount of cushioning and support. The Platinum trim gets 20-way power seats for both the driver and passenger to help dial in the right position. Those sitting in the back will be pleased to find generous head and legroom. As added bonus, you can order heated and ventilated seats, power adjustments, and a rear entertainment system to make the back more luxurious. The only downside to sitting in the back is that the CT6 isn’t long enough to take full advantage of the power adjustments. I felt somewhat cramped when I had the back seat fully reclined and my legs touching the back of the front seat. A few more inches in the wheelbase would fix this issue.

Cadillac’s CUE system has undergone some changes for the CT6. Most of the touch-sensitive buttons have either been dropped or replaced with actual, physical buttons. Being able to press a button or flick a switch to change a setting is a welcome change and less frustrating than the touch-sensitive controls. It would have been nice if Cadillac swapped the touch-sensitive volume strip for an actual knob, but at least you can adjust it via the steering wheel controls. Cadillac also added a touchpad controller (think Lexus’ Remote Touch system) for CUE. It is a nice idea on paper, but the execution shows Cadillac needs to do a bit more work. The touchpad is hypersensitive and tends to overshoot from where you want the cursor. You’re better off using the touchscreen. As for CUE itself, the system comes with a faster processor, some tweaks to the interface, and Apple CarPlay and Android Auto compatibility. These changes make CUE less frustrating to use on a daily basis.

There are three engines on offer for the CT6. The base is a turbocharged 2.0L four-cylinder, followed by a 3.6L V6. Our Platinum tester featured the big dog; a twin-turbo 3.0L V6 offering 404 horsepower and 400 pound-feet of torque (@ 2,500 - 5,100 rpm)  Power goes to all four wheels via an eight-speed automatic. Performance for the twin-turbo six may not have same exuberance as V8s found in competitors, but it isn’t a slouch. This engine rockets the CT6 at a surprising rate of speed. Those who have timed the vehicle say it will hit 60 mph in around five seconds and we would believe it. Torque is abundant throughout rev range, meaning you should have no issue trying to merge on the freeway or make a pass. The eight-speed automatic has the right characteristics you want in a flagship sedan, smooth and unobtrusive shifts.

EPA fuel economy figures for the CT6 3.0TT stand at 18 City/26 Highway/21 Combined. Our average for the week landed around 22 mpg in mostly city driving.

Describing a sedan that measures 204 inches in overall length as ‘agile’ seems very disingenuous. But the CT6 is that. Drive it around a turn and the CT6 feels like a smaller sedan with nimble manners and well-controlled body motions. Some credit has to go Active Chassis package that comes standard on the Platinum and comes with the excellent Magnetic Ride Control system and rear-wheel steering. 

But most buyers who tend to buy a sedan of this caliber don’t really care about handling. Ride quality is king here and that’s where the CT6 begins to falter. When equipped with the Magnetic Ride Control system, the ride is just a touch too firm. You will feel more bumps in this than some of the CT6’s competition. It would be nice if Cadillac could offer an air suspension for those who want comfort. On the upside, road and wind noise are kept to near silent levels.

It seems somewhat surprising to call the CT6 Platinum a great value, but it actually is. The Platinum 3.0TT begins at $87,495 and our test car with a few options (20-inch wheels, white paint, and spoiler) comes in at $91,580. Considering you have to spend a fair amount more on competitors to match the level of equipment on offer, the CT6 Platinum is quite the steal.

Most of Cadillac’s vehicles have fallen into the cliche of ‘being so close, yet so far’ due to some odd or boneheaded decision. But the CT6 is the first Cadillac that has avoided this. It feels like Cadillac is starting to feel comfortable in this new identity that it has been putting out there since the mid-2000s, a legitimate competitor to the Germans. The CT6 stands out for a number of reasons; excellent driving dynamics, impressive interior, punchy V6, and being quite the value. There are some niggling issues such as a firm ride and questionable materials, but these can and should be addressed down the road. Whether the CT6 can draw people away from the usual suspects remains to be seen. 

If Cadillac can take what they have learned from the CT6 and implement them into future models, then we can say something that hasn’t been used in a long time, ‘Standard of the World’.

Disclaimer: Cadillac Provided the CT6, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas

Year: 2017
Make: Cadillac
Model: CT6
Trim: Platinum
Engine: Twin-Turbo 3.0L DI DOHC with VVT V6
Driveline: Eight-Speed Automatic, All-Wheel Drive
Horsepower @ RPM: 404 @ 5,700
Torque @ RPM: 400 @ 2,500 - 5,100
Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 18/26/21
Curb Weight: 4,085 lbs
Location of Manufacture: Detroit, MI
Base Price: $87,495
As Tested Price: $91,580 (Includes $995.00 Destination Charge)

Options:
20" Midnight Silver Wheels - $2,095.00
Crystal White Tricoat - $500.00
Spoiler Kit - $495.00

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[G. David Felt]

Awesome write up, very enjoyable to read. I suspect the usual suspects will nit pick this apart as it still is not a german sedan.

[riviera74]

Yes there will always be the BMW(right or wrong) crowd.  It is great to know that Cadillac can now truly compete with the Germans with no excuses.

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Awesome write up, very enjoyable to read. I suspect the usual suspects will nit pick this apart as it still is not a german sedan.

And we care not about them, as they will always nitpick anything that doesn't come from das fuhrer lol! The CT6 is a solid triple, just short of a home run, with the 3.0L. The CUE system keeps it at third base but it is ready to steal home with the right update.

I will say this though. These comparisons to the S Class need to stop. It was never meant to compete with the S Class, yet people keep insisting on bringing it up in every CT6 article. It's clearly not in the same price bracket and is not equipped the same (not to mention the size). That spot is reserved for the upcoming CT8, which I do think will be a true S Class fighter and rightfully so.

[cp-the-nerd]

Solid review. I want to see the CT6 taken further with the long rumored new V8 in development and teased in concepts.

I disagree on one count, because every Cadillac review seems to repeat the same "finally no more excuses" theme. Besides the questionable CUE system, both the CTS and Escalade are already no-excuses excellent products. Their interiors are very well executed with leather,  suede, and wood trim. I'm particularly smitten with Cadillac's brown leather options.

Cadillac has been building great cars for a while, and the CT6's greatest weakness IMO is the way Cadillac's rapid evolution and stunning concept cars set expectations so high that the warmed over Art & Science sheetmetal and simplified interior were underwhelming.

[G. David Felt]

9 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:

Solid review. I want to see the CT6 taken further with the long rumored new V8 in development and teased in concepts.

I disagree on one count, because every Cadillac review seems to repeat the same "finally no more excuses" theme. Besides the questionable CUE system, both the CTS and Escalade are already no-excuses excellent products. Their interiors are very well executed with leather,  suede, and wood trim. I'm particularly smitten with Cadillac's brown leather options.

Cadillac has been building great cars for a while, and the CT6's greatest weakness IMO is the way Cadillac's rapid evolution and stunning concept cars set expectations so high that the warmed over Art & Science sheetmetal and simplified interior were underwhelming.

Totally agree, that I love their warm brown interiors.

[Drew Dowdell]

Given the average age demographic of the 7-series and S-class buyer, the handling aspect of the CT6 may be a benefit in an often overlooked category.  The ability to park these larger cars is a common concern of that age group and 4-wheel steering makes parking the CT6 a breeze. You can maneuver the CT6 around the Piggly Wiggly parking lot as if it were a CTS while still having your fullsize comfort.  

Turning radii:

CT6 - 18.5 Feet (only with 4-wheel steering) 20 feet without.

7-series - 21 feet

S-Class - 20 feet

A8 - 20.85 feet

 

 

 

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

And we care not about them, as they will always nitpick anything that doesn't come from das fuhrer lol! The CT6 is a solid triple, just short of a home run, with the 3.0L. The CUE system keeps it at third base but it is ready to steal home with the right update.

I will say this though. These comparisons to the S Class need to stop. It was never meant to compete with the S Class, yet people keep insisting on bringing it up in every CT6 article. It's clearly not in the same price bracket and is not equipped the same (not to mention the size). That spot is reserved for the upcoming CT8, which I do think will be a true S Class fighter and rightfully so.

I agree it is not an S-class competitor, they aren't even close on the inside or in power or in price.  The Genesis cars and Continental and Kia K900 aren't S-class competitors either, even if they are full size cars. 

I think the CT6 is more of an E-class competitor based on price, and I think the CT6 interior lags behind the E-class, maybe it is on par with the 5-series and A6, but the A6 is old.  I think Cadillac should have done more with the interior of the CT6 since they didn't bring a lot of horsepower to the table.  They aren't selling M5 performance for their $91k, so that interior better be world class.    

Really if they took the CT6 and cut 10 inches of length out of it, they would have a CTS that would be competitive with the mid-size segment.  If they do a CT8, and that is a big IF, they better aim way high.

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Given the average age demographic of the 7-series and S-class buyer, the handling aspect of the CT6 may be a benefit in an often overlooked category.  The ability to park these larger cars is a common concern of that age group and 4-wheel steering makes parking the CT6 a breeze. You can maneuver the CT6 around the Piggly Wiggly parking lot as if it were a CTS while still having your fullsize comfort.  

Turning radii:

CT6 - 18.5 Feet (only with 4-wheel steering) 20 feet without.

7-series - 21 feet

S-Class - 20 feet

A8 - 20.85 feet

 

 

 

The S-class and 7-series park themselves though, the 7-series does perpendicular parking too, not sure if the S-class does now, I assume it will on the 2018 update it it doesn't already because the E-class can.  I think the 5-series has the same self-park as the 7.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Gotta be honest... i see very little in the difference between the CT6 Park assist and the S-Class Assist

 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The S-class and 7-series park themselves though, the 7-series does perpendicular parking too, not sure if the S-class does now, I assume it will on the 2018 update it it doesn't already because the E-class can.  I think the 5-series has the same self-park as the 7.

Optional - Minimum price, $100k. 

The CT6 does have self-park and can do it perpendicularly. 

The 2010 MKS had self-park, so ease off that high horse there mister. 

[William Maley]

7 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I will say this though. These comparisons to the S Class need to stop. It was never meant to compete with the S Class, yet people keep insisting on bringing it up in every CT6 article. It's clearly not in the same price bracket and is not equipped the same (not to mention the size). That spot is reserved for the upcoming CT8, which I do think will be a true S Class fighter and rightfully so.

3

 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

I agree it is not an S-class competitor, they aren't even close on the inside or in power or in price.  The Genesis cars and Continental and Kia K900 aren't S-class competitors either, even if they are full size cars. 

I think the CT6 is more of an E-class competitor based on price, and I think the CT6 interior lags behind the E-class, maybe it is on par with the 5-series and A6, but the A6 is old.  I think Cadillac should have done more with the interior of the CT6 since they didn't bring a lot of horsepower to the table.  They aren't selling M5 performance for their $91k, so that interior better be world class.    

Really if they took the CT6 and cut 10 inches of length out of it, they would have a CTS that would be competitive with the mid-size segment.  If they do a CT8, and that is a big IF, they better aim way high.

1

I would ask then is what you would compare this specific model with? If we were talking about 2.0T or 3.6, then I would compare it to the likes of 5-Series, E-Class, S90, etc. But this is 3.0TT Platinum with a starting price of $87,495. I think if we're talking price, then the S-Class, 7-Series, A8 comparisons are fair.

But, the size of CT6 is where I think the comparison becomes tougher. The CT6 is smaller than a full-size flagship, but bigger than a midsize (i.e. CTS). We go back to the issue of the last-generation CTS - what class does it compete in? Compact or midsize?

I think that's where a lot of us, myself included, find ourselves scratching our heads as to where to put it.

[smk4565]

55 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Optional - Minimum price, $100k. 

The CT6 does have self-park and can do it perpendicularly. 

The 2010 MKS had self-park, so ease off that high horse there mister. 

It isn't a high horse, you stated that ease of parking was an advantage of buying the CT6 over the other big sedans, but they all self park.  So it is a non issue really.  No V8 in the CT6, and a base 4 cylinder, so they aren't going for performance.  I think they should have done more with the interior so they had something that stands out against the competition.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, William Maley said:

 

I would ask then is what you would compare this specific model with? If we were talking about 2.0T or 3.6, then I would compare it to the likes of 5-Series, E-Class, S90, etc. But this is 3.0TT Platinum with a starting price of $87,495. I think if we're talking price, then the S-Class, 7-Series, A8 comparisons are fair.

But, the size of CT6 is where I think the comparison becomes tougher. The CT6 is smaller than a full-size flagship, but bigger than a midsize (i.e. CTS). We go back to the issue of the last-generation CTS - what class does it compete in? Compact or midsize?

I think that's where a lot of us, myself included, find ourselves scratching our heads as to where to put it.

Might leave buyers scratching their heads too.   I still think it more of a 5-series, E-class competitor, because the CT6 is the same size as a 90s STS and Cadillac wanted that to be a 5-series/E-class competitor, with full size at mid-size price.

If you take an E43 it starts at $72k, but with premium 3 package, metallic paint and heated/cooled seats as the only options added, the price hits $81,795 and you could get it to $87k with the rest of the options.  If you take an S550 4Matic with premium package as the only option it is $105,025.  However, if you check all the option boxes except for the refrigerator and dealer accessories I was able to option an S550 up to $156,765.   And that is with the base engine in the S-class, we aren't even to the V12 or the AMG yet.  This is why I think CT6 is more E-class competition

Edited May 24, 2017 by smk4565

[G. David Felt]

17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It isn't a high horse, you stated that ease of parking was an advantage of buying the CT6 over the other big sedans, but they all self park.  So it is a non issue really.  No V8 in the CT6, and a base 4 cylinder, so they aren't going for performance.  I think they should have done more with the interior so they had something that stands out against the competition.

SMK complain all you want, fact is the CT6 interior is every bit a competent interior and very competitive to the E-class interior.

2017 E-Class

2017 CT6

 

[smk4565]

I think the E is better after sitting in both, but CT6 is competitive in the segment for sure.  But the CTS is also supposed to be competing in the midsize segment.  What Cadillac should do is put the CT6 interior in the CTS, the CTS interior in the ATS and upgrade CT6 to something above Escalade Platinum interior.   This will make all 3 of their sedans more competitive.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

It isn't a high horse, you stated that ease of parking was an advantage of buying the CT6 over the other big sedans, but they all self park.  So it is a non issue really.  No V8 in the CT6, and a base 4 cylinder, so they aren't going for performance.  I think they should have done more with the interior so they had something that stands out against the competition.

No, they don't all self park. It's an option on cars already $10k higher in price than the Cadillac. On the S class, it's part of a $4,500 option package. What you're trying to do is discount the fact that the CT6 Platinum is more manageable to drive.

[balthazar]

5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

the E-class, maybe it is on par with the 5-series and A6, but the A6 is old.  I think Cadillac should have done more with the interior of the CT6 since they didn't bring a lot of horsepower to the table.

In order to match the CT6 with the A6, you have to bump up to the S6, where 2 more cylinders & a full litre more displacement gets you 16 more HP than the 3.0TT CT6.

In order to match the CT6 with the e-class, you have to bump up to the V8TT, where 2 more cylinders & 1.6 litres more displacement gets you 2 less HP than the 3.0TT CT6.

Cylinder to cylinders & litres to litres, its the Germans that didn't bring a lot of HP to the table (unless you pay and pay and pay).

[oldshurst442]

Are we actually proud for self-parking cars?

We are discussing which cars have park assist and which of these park themselves better?

Ill be impressed when self-parking cars park like this!  (And a feature that I will use ONLY if they actually park like that!)

 

I bet you these kids will NEVER use park assist in their lives!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442 I agree, that self parking is overrated. I feel that this makes people lazier.

[surreal1272]

14 hours ago, William Maley said:

 

I would ask then is what you would compare this specific model with? If we were talking about 2.0T or 3.6, then I would compare it to the likes of 5-Series, E-Class, S90, etc. But this is 3.0TT Platinum with a starting price of $87,495. I think if we're talking price, then the S-Class, 7-Series, A8 comparisons are fair.

But, the size of CT6 is where I think the comparison becomes tougher. The CT6 is smaller than a full-size flagship, but bigger than a midsize (i.e. CTS). We go back to the issue of the last-generation CTS - what class does it compete in? Compact or midsize?

I think that's where a lot of us, myself included, find ourselves scratching our heads as to where to put it.

The A8 and 7 Series are more apt here. The S Class, when you start to option it out (never mind the higher base price), shoots into another stratosphere price wise that makes comparing a much cheaper Cadillac kind of pointless. That's just my opinion, mind you, but I feel it is a valid opinion. I do get that the CT6 is a "tweener" size but just further makes my point in regards to any comparison to a bigger and much more expensive S Class. That all changes when the CT8 comes out.

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

@oldshurst442 I agree, that self parking is overrated. I feel that this makes people lazier.

AND DUMBER!

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, oldshurst442 said:

AND DUMBER!

They don't need much help with that.

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It isn't a high horse, you stated that ease of parking was an advantage of buying the CT6 over the other big sedans, but they all self park.  So it is a non issue really.  No V8 in the CT6, and a base 4 cylinder, so they aren't going for performance.  I think they should have done more with the interior so they had something that stands out against the competition.

Its not just about parking.. the CT6 has a better turning radius.. thus allowing it to maneuver better. U are just hell bent on trying to praise Benz.. which is curious.. because if the CT6 had the V8 options that the S-Class has... the all important to U 0-60 times would most likely see Caddy a victor again. Did I mention FUCK BENZ??? 

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

The A8 and 7 Series are more apt here. The S Class, when you start to option it out (never mind the higher base price), shoots into another stratosphere price wise that makes comparing a much cheaper Cadillac kind of pointless. That's just my opinion, mind you, but I feel it is a valid opinion. I do get that the CT6 is a "tweener" size but just further makes my point in regards to any comparison to a bigger and much more expensive S Class. That all changes when the CT8 comes out.

Not just that.. the CT6 is quite frankly on par directly with the two "alternative Germans" and currently beats the LS460 and XJ... and IT'S NOT EVEN CALLED FLAGSHIP. The CT8 is simply gonna roast these bitches if it follows the same trend set forth by the CTS and now CT6

[Drew Dowdell]

What I really want to see is the Omega chassis used on the next CTS(5?). There would be more meat in that market.  It could end up 600lbs lighter than an E-Class.

[G. David Felt]

25 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Its not just about parking.. the CT6 has a better turning radius.. thus allowing it to maneuver better. U are just hell bent on trying to praise Benz.. which is curious.. because if the CT6 had the V8 options that the S-Class has... the all important to U 0-60 times would most likely see Caddy a victor again. Did I mention FUCK BENZ??? 

Not just that.. the CT6 is quite frankly on par directly with the two "alternative Germans" and currently beats the LS460 and XJ... and IT'S NOT EVEN CALLED FLAGSHIP. The CT8 is simply gonna roast these bitches if it follows the same trend set forth by the CTS and now CT6

Check out this V roasting on the Autobahn. At 11min is where you see him hit the no limit zone and run up to 292kph. Pretty sweet and stable run.

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

34 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

What I really want to see is the Omega chassis used on the next CTS(5?). There would be more meat in that market.  It could end up 600lbs lighter than an E-Class.

I truly believe that this is what will happen. The legroom reviewers complain about would be remedied easily with due to the longer WB.. and it is pretty much what the 5Series is to the 7series. The ATS should stay on Alpha.. just use the config or size model that is sold in China as the ATS-L. Alpha would still be under the Camaro.. and I continue to think that the next Impala should go Alpha.. using the current CTS's 114.6 inch WB, but stretched an additional 2/10s to the current.. or leaving Chevy SS's 114.8. It would fix a lot of stuff at Cadillac and Chevy pertaining to their car offerings overlap and sizing. All of that coupled with Cadillac utilizing the same weight saving techniques used on the CT6.. would make the next gen CT3 and CT5 even more so the light in the classes.

40 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Check out this V roasting on the Autobahn. At 11min is where you see him hit the no limit zone and run up to 292kph. Pretty sweet and stable run.

I LOVE MY CAR!!!! 

 

[smk4565]

16 hours ago, balthazar said:

In order to match the CT6 with the A6, you have to bump up to the S6, where 2 more cylinders & a full litre more displacement gets you 16 more HP than the 3.0TT CT6.

In order to match the CT6 with the e-class, you have to bump up to the V8TT, where 2 more cylinders & 1.6 litres more displacement gets you 2 less HP than the 3.0TT CT6.

Cylinder to cylinders & litres to litres, its the Germans that didn't bring a lot of HP to the table (unless you pay and pay and pay).

CT6, E-class, A6 and 5-series all start with a 2 liter four, all offer a 3 liter six of some sort.  The problem is the CT6 has nothing above the 3 liter Six when the Germans do.

The E43 has 396 hp and 394 lb-ft and does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds.  That can easily outrun the CT6 3.0TT.  The 2017 BMW 550i does 0-60 in 4 seconds flat, it is actually as fast as a 2016 M5.  The S6 does 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, which is Corvette fast.   So the Germans are all faster at their "sport" level, and they all offer another level above that.

[smk4565]

6 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Its not just about parking.. the CT6 has a better turning radius.. thus allowing it to maneuver better. U are just hell bent on trying to praise Benz.. which is curious.. because if the CT6 had the V8 options that the S-Class has... the all important to U 0-60 times would most likely see Caddy a victor again. Did I mention f@#k BENZ??? 

Not just that.. the CT6 is quite frankly on par directly with the two "alternative Germans" and currently beats the LS460 and XJ... and IT'S NOT EVEN CALLED FLAGSHIP. The CT8 is simply gonna roast these bitches if it follows the same trend set forth by the CTS and now CT6

Unless th CT8 gets a V12 it is no S-class competitor.  The 7-series, Flying Spur and Ghost and even the A8 have 12 cylinder options.

[Drew Dowdell]

13 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Unless th CT8 gets a V12 it is no S-class competitor.  The 7-series, Flying Spur and Ghost and even the A8 have 12 cylinder options.

There are distinctly American alternatives to a V12.

[Cmicasa the Great]

37 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

CT6, E-class, A6 and 5-series all start with a 2 liter four, all offer a 3 liter six of some sort.  The problem is the CT6 has nothing above the 3 liter Six when the Germans do.

The E43 has 396 hp and 394 lb-ft and does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds.  That can easily outrun the CT6 3.0TT.  The 2017 BMW 550i does 0-60 in 4 seconds flat, it is actually as fast as a 2016 M5.  The S6 does 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, which is Corvette fast.   So the Germans are all faster at their "sport" level, and they all offer another level above that.

Your entire argument died when U insisted on comparing a 204 in car to 192-196 inch ones when Caddy clearly has a same size alternative that beats them all with exception NOW to the brand new for this year Bitch ass Benz

[surreal1272]

58 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Your entire argument died when U insisted on comparing a 204 in car to 192-196 inch ones when Caddy clearly has a same size alternative that beats them all with exception NOW to the brand new for this year Bitch ass Benz

He also forgets that the CT6 is a tweener model. The CTS competes with the ones he mentions and it most certainly has the balls to beat them, i.e. CTS-V. Rumor also has it that a V8 will find its way into the CT6. What will his excuses be at that point?

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Your entire argument died when U insisted on comparing a 204 in car to 192-196 inch ones when Caddy clearly has a same size alternative that beats them all with exception NOW to the brand new for this year Bitch ass Benz

Do you really want to compare the CT6 to an S-class?  They aren't even close.  So I think it better to compare the CT6 to the cars it has similar price too, which is E-class and 5-series from Germany, maybe Audi A7 from the VW camp.  If you want to compare size and price, the CT6 lines up directly with the Genesis G90 and Kia K900.  And that is irrelevant segment.  

[balthazar]

Size-wise it lines up perfectly with another car that doesn't compete with the S-class; the BMW 7-series : 204" vs, 206".

Edited May 25, 2017 by balthazar

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

He also forgets that the CT6 is a tweener model. The CTS competes with the ones he mentions and it most certainly has the balls to beat them, i.e. CTS-V. Rumor also has it that a V8 will find its way into the CT6. What will his excuses be at that point?

I know it is a tweener, but Cadillac basically has 3 sedans over lapping each other in the $46-75k segment. They need to clean that up, move the CTS up in price, move the CT6 up in price.  The original CTS was a tweener, always trying to be the price leader, why on earth is Cadillac worried about being a price leader?  Let Buick be bargain luxury, that is what it is there for.  They should raise Cadillac prices 20% across the board, then tell the engineers to load up on content and luxury to match the price.

[smk4565]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Size-wise it lines up perfectly with another car that doesn't compete with the S-class; the BMW 7-series : 204" vs, 206".

Wait, the 7-series does not compete with the S-class?  That has been the #1 rival since the 80s.  And there is an M760Li with a 601 hp V12 that starts at $154,795 before getting into the options list.  CT6 is a far cry from that.

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There are distinctly American alternatives to a V12.

A V8?  That isn't an alternative to a V12.  That is the same as saying the Alfa Romeo 4C's 4 banger is an alternative to the Corvette.  A V12 is the grand daddy of them all.

Now the alternative could be some sort of twin turbo 6 or 8 cylinder with electric motors combining to make 700 hp or so.  AMG is going to go there, but I don't know if anyone else is anytime soon.

[cp-the-nerd]

Elsewhere in the world the S-class, 7-series, and A8 are sold in two wheelbases. The CT6 compares to the short wheelbase. That does not mean it competes with the E-class, 5-series, or A6/S6, that's dumb. The CTS is the direct competitor in the midsize luxury class.

I think Cadillac was trying to find a fullsize niche at the right price, leaving room for the "true" flagship that never materialized. Hopefully it will, since the project is constantly on again/off again.

If given a second chance after hindsight, I bet Cadillac would have built a more dramatic looking long-wheelbase CT6 and focused the saved R&D on the crossovers they need.

[balthazar]

22 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Wait, the 7-series does not compete with the S-class?  That has been the #1 rival since the 80s.

Nope- it starts a full $15K cheaper- that's a different class. Or at least; many would argue such.
I mean... in a world where a 204" car "doesn't compete" with a 206" car...

Edited May 25, 2017 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

22 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

A V8?  That isn't an alternative to a V12.  That is the same as saying the Alfa Romeo 4C's 4 banger is an alternative to the Corvette.  A V12 is the grand daddy of them all.

Now the alternative could be some sort of twin turbo 6 or 8 cylinder with electric motors combining to make 700 hp or so.  AMG is going to go there, but I don't know if anyone else is anytime soon.

Nope!

A V12 means shyte!

Back in the day when Detroit ruled, CUBIC INCHES ruled and those were on V8s! And those V8s put to shame ALL V12s that were sold in that era....

So much so that the Detroit V8s became LEGENDS and the V12s of that era are all but forgotten. Only Euro-files reminisce about these engines.... 

Today, the remnants of that could still be seen.....

The Mopar Demon engine puts to shame that AMG 6.0 liter BiTurbo V12....621 horsepower....

I think the 6.2 liter supercharged 808 horsepower beast is the Grand Daddy of them all!

You may not think so....but...the power numbers are all there for you to see!

 

I want to agree with you on the electric motor thing....but Porsche and Ferrari are already there....and I have faith that Corvette and Cadillac will bet there too...

I do have faith for GM in that regard...but Im not entirely convinced on that either!

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

33 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I know it is a tweener, but Cadillac basically has 3 sedans over lapping each other in the $46-75k segment. They need to clean that up, move the CTS up in price, move the CT6 up in price.  The original CTS was a tweener, always trying to be the price leader, why on earth is Cadillac worried about being a price leader?  Let Buick be bargain luxury, that is what it is there for.  They should raise Cadillac prices 20% across the board, then tell the engineers to load up on content and luxury to match the price.

It's amazing what Benz can do when so much of the volume comes from taxis.

[smk4565]

19 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Nope- it starts a full $15K cheaper- that's a different class. Or at least; many would argue such.
I mean... in a world where a 204" car "doesn't compete" with a 206" car...

Well the 7-series is cheaper than the S-class and also not as good.  But since the original 7-series back in the late 70s, it has been the closest competitor to the S-class.  A CT6 starts $40k cheaper than an S-class, and a loaded CT6 is $150,000 cheaper than a loaded S-class.  That is a big gap.

[smk4565]

19 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Nope!

A V12 means shyte!

Back in the day when Detroit ruled, CUBIC INCHES ruled and those were on V8s! And those V8s put to shame ALL V12s that were sold in that era....

So much so that the Detroit V8s became LEGENDS and the V12s of that era are all but forgotten. Only Euro-files reminisce about these engines.... 

Today, the remnants of that could still be seen.....

The Mopar Demon engine puts to shame that AMG 6.0 liter BiTurbo V12....621 horsepower....

I think the 6.2 liter supercharged 808 horsepower beast is the Grand Daddy of them all!

You may not think so....but...the power numbers are all there for you to see!

 

I want to agree with you on the electric motor thing....but Porsche and Ferrari are already there....and I have faith that Corvette and Cadillac will bet there too...

I do have faith for GM in that regard...but Im not entirely convinced on that either!

 

The AMG V12 hasn't really seen an power increase in 10 years, because they want to protect the transmission and drivetrain and not have reliability issues.  Plus you can only get so much power on the ground.  There was talk a couple years ago that AMG would raise the power of the V12, that engine makes well over 800 lb-ft but they de-tune it.  But they haven't done anything.  I'd like to see them get all wheel drive matched with the V12 so they can get the power down and let it loose. 

Mercedes can get 200 hp per liter if they want, they already do it on the CLA45, their F1 car makes like 500 hp per liter.  So the know how is there, they just don't seem to want to change the V12.

Ferrari doesn't do a lot with batteries, the LaFerrari is more like the F1 energy recovery system and electric boost motor, I don't think think it can drive on battery alone like the Porsche 918 can.  I think when AMG gets into that, they are going to make a big splash, because they are going to apply the F1 technology to the road,

33 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It's amazing what Benz can do when so much of the volume comes from taxis.

Yep, and police cars, and emergency services SUVs, military trucks, semi trucks, garbage trucks, busses, etc.  All that and still no one can beat them in luxury cars, no one can beat them in racing.

[Drew Dowdell]

The S-Class taxis are what's keeping the lights on at Benz. That's where they get the volume to do the low volume luxury stuff that you wet yourself over.  Cadillac on the other hand has to use bespoke platforms and gets raked over the coals by the likes of people like you if they ever share that platform, engine tech, or transmissions with any of their lesser brand cousins.   You whine all the time that the Escalade shares a power window motor with a mere Tahoe, yet ignore the cases when Benz pumps out taxis and garbage trucks. You'll also ignore all of the improvements the Escalade gets over the Tahoe, some of which can't even be seen, but are there nonetheless.

If GM had given Chevy the Omega platform for a new Impala and the Impala was released 30 seconds before CT6, you'd complain about it and call the Cadillac a "rebadged Chevy". If that new Impala had a 9C1 package and was also being offered to the taxi market, you'd run around saying how terrible GM was for doing pushing "inferior" platforms onto Cadillac.  It's just the Benz shill double standard you have.

[G. David Felt]

So in reading over so many reviews on the CT6, one thing becomes very clear. Cadillac has a superior engineered auto. Personal preference comes heavily into play in regards to the interior of the CT6 and like SMK a Rabid Fan Boy of Benz, the other auto web sites pretty much also are either biased heavily by their fan boy love of Benz or one of the other auto makers. Neutrality of being a journalist is becoming very rare in deed.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/volvo/s90/2017/volvo-s90-t6-cadillac-ct6-20t-mercedes-benz-e300-luxury-sedan-comparison/

http://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct6

http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/cadillac/ct6/2017/overview

https://www.cars.com/research/cadillac-ct6-2017/

http://autoweek.com/article/drive-reviews/first-drive-2016-cadillac-ct6-fresh-take-american-luxury

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/2017-cadillac-ct6--video-review-and-road-test/2100001417/

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/reviews/a28012/2017-cadillac-ct6-review/

There are plenty more sites with reviews but you clearly have your camps of lovers all things German, Lovers all things Asian and the final camp of Lovers all things American.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The S-Class taxis are what's keeping the lights on at Benz. That's where they get the volume to do the low volume luxury stuff that you wet yourself over.  Cadillac on the other hand has to use bespoke platforms and gets raked over the coals by the likes of people like you if they ever share that platform, engine tech, or transmissions with any of their lesser brand cousins.   You whine all the time that the Escalade shares a power window motor with a mere Tahoe, yet ignore the cases when Benz pumps out taxis and garbage trucks. You'll also ignore all of the improvements the Escalade gets over the Tahoe, some of which can't even be seen, but are there nonetheless.

If GM had given Chevy the Omega platform for a new Impala and the Impala was released 30 seconds before CT6, you'd complain about it and call the Cadillac a "rebadged Chevy". If that new Impala had a 9C1 package and was also being offered to the taxi market, you'd run around saying how terrible GM was for doing pushing "inferior" platforms onto Cadillac.  It's just the Benz shill double standard you have.

The S-class is built to be the best car in the world, which it has been for the past 40+ years.  Whether the car is used as a taxi or by a CEO to drive to the golf course doesn't really matter.  They don't have a cheap version of it and it isn't based on any other car.   Cadillac has lots of livery vehicles, and that doesn't matter either.  It the crossovers built on a Chevy platform that can't match performance with the Germans, Jaguar or even Infiniti that matters.  It is discount luxury brand pricing that matters.  And I know someone will say but ATP is up the past 2 years, and that is mostly because ATS sales have been down 30% the past 2 years.

[G. David Felt]

17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The S-class is built to be the best car in the world, which it has been for the past 40+ years. 

Totally subjective as MB has NOT built the best cars in the world for the last 40+ years. The S class has been shit at times especially in the 70-s to early 90's. 80's being the worst.

Far better built options so get a reality check, every automaker has good and bad times and right now for the last 15-20 years the S class has been successful due to being mostly sold as a taxi and a ubber rich auto with crazy priced options that have allowed it to be at the top of their game when other auto companies fell.

[Drew Dowdell]

52 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The S-class is built to be the best car in the world, which it has been for the past 40+ years.  Whether the car is used as a taxi or by a CEO to drive to the golf course doesn't really matter.  They don't have a cheap version of it and it isn't based on any other car.   Cadillac has lots of livery vehicles, and that doesn't matter either.  It the crossovers built on a Chevy platform that can't match performance with the Germans, Jaguar or even Infiniti that matters.  It is discount luxury brand pricing that matters.  And I know someone will say but ATP is up the past 2 years, and that is mostly because ATS sales have been down 30% the past 2 years.

They sell short wheelbase diesels with plastic seats

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The S-class is built to be the best car in the world, which it has been for the past 40+ years.  Whether the car is used as a taxi or by a CEO to drive to the golf course doesn't really matter.  They don't have a cheap version of it and it isn't based on any other car.   Cadillac has lots of livery vehicles, and that doesn't matter either.  It the crossovers built on a Chevy platform that can't match performance with the Germans, Jaguar or even Infiniti that matters.  It is discount luxury brand pricing that matters.  And I know someone will say but ATP is up the past 2 years, and that is mostly because ATS sales have been down 30% the past 2 years.

Then please oh please explain how an Escalade, you know that overdressed Tahoe you love to bring up, beat all competitors in the most recent comparison on top of being a top seller in its class. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

19 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Do you really want to compare the CT6 to an S-class?  They aren't even close.  So I think it better to compare the CT6 to the cars it has similar price too, which is E-class and 5-series from Germany, maybe Audi A7 from the VW camp.  If you want to compare size and price, the CT6 lines up directly with the Genesis G90 and Kia K900.  And that is irrelevant segment.  

Yeah.. please do. Compare a car that comes in at about $90K Fully Loaded, AWD, 4WSteering, All the tech, 400hp/400ft-lb, gorgeous.. big... exclusive.. lighter than not only the E-Class below it.. but the C-Class in some iterations.. Compare that to the moving refrigerator of a car the $92K S-Class base model.. a car that I can personally can tell U I rented in Vegas a few years back.. just so I could leave my juices and the woman's I was with on the backseat outta disrespect for the car.

I mean I seriously got dirty when I yanked out... So much so that I'm surprised that I didn't get a call from the rental company telling me I had to pay child support 9 months later... not to the woman.. but the car. Fuck a Benz??? Yeah.. I did that

Like Drew said.. GARBAGE