Buick Teases 2018 Enclave Before New York: Comments

[William Maley]

At first glance, you might be thinking why is Buick teasing the LaCrosse sedan again. But actually, what you are looking at is the 2018 Buick Enclave that will be debuting next month at the New York Auto Show. The image shows the Enclave following the footsteps of the Encore and LaCrosse with a new waterfall grille and slimmer headlights. From spy shots we reported on last month, we're not expecting any major changes in the overall shape.

Expect the current 3.6L V6 producing 305 horsepower to be residing under the hood, paired with a nine-speed automatic.

Source: Buick

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[Anthony Fongaro]

I wonder if it's going to grow as large as the Traverse or shrink like the Acadia?

[Drew Dowdell]

I think it will be Traverse size.

[G. David Felt]

Interesting, very excited to see what the final look is.

[riviera74]

I am relieved that they are going to tweak the Enclave rather than make massive changes to the shape of the large crossover, simply because the shape itself is one of the best things about it.  I do hope that the Enclave upgrades many of the features and interior of the crossover.  The nine-speed is a nice upgrade over the six-speed it originally came with.

[daves87rs]

Could give it a more "spirted" look....think it will help as well..

[frogger]

I hope it all comes together well... I find mid cycle refreshes with modern front clips or grilles/lighting attached to otherwise 5 year old vehicles looks awkward.

 

 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

3 minutes ago, frogger said:

I hope it all comes together well... I find mid cycle refreshes with modern front clips or grilles/lighting attached to otherwise 5 year old vehicles looks awkward.

 

 

 

This is an all new Enclave. New platform and everything.

[regfootball]

can only hope for good style here. the new acadia is a size and style disaster.

 

well,I'll edit this. If the enclave and traverse can cover the large cuv market adequately themselves, that will be ok. Just that the new Acadia even if it is a more manageable size for some, is a big letdown in design and interior. Hope the enclave does not suffer that. New xt5 is well done so it bodes well for enclave 

[Paolino]

I'm very anxious to see the final product.  Enclaves are huge on Long Island... you see them everywhere.  My friend at my last job had one--a 2014 I believe... her only gripe was that she wished it had a little more power.  She otherwise loved it.

[Drew Dowdell]

On 3/19/2017 at 10:44 AM, Paolino said:

I'm very anxious to see the final product.  Enclaves are huge on Long Island... you see them everywhere.  My friend at my last job had one--a 2014 I believe... her only gripe was that she wished it had a little more power.  She otherwise loved it.

If any vehicle in the GM lineup could benefit from a turbo V6, the Enclave would be it.  The regular V6 just has to work too hard to move all that weight.

[Paolino]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

If any vehicle in the GM lineup could benefit from a turbo V6, the Enclave would be it.  The regular V6 just has to work too hard to move all that weight.

Well, I can only hope something else is in the pipelines for the Enclave... I'm assuming the new one will shed a few hundred pounds, and the new 3.6L is a tiny bit more powerful and will have a 9-speed... all that will help, but I'm thinking not enough for everyone.  Whatever happened to the "Avenir" trim/sub brand?  I thought we were going to start seeing that.

[smk4565]

GM's V6 has no torque is the problem, but like Paolino stated, they will go from a 6 speed to 9 speed probably, drop a couple hundred pounds, and the Acadia has a 310 hp V6, the Enclave now has 288. That is a 22 hp bump, they will see that as enough improvements for who is buying these.  Plus Cadillac will have a version, so you can't put a 400 hp version in the Buick and a 300 hp version of the Cadillac.  They have to force people into the Cadillac somehow.

[Drew Dowdell]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

GM's V6 has no torque is the problem, but like Paolino stated, they will go from a 6 speed to 9 speed probably, drop a couple hundred pounds, and the Acadia has a 310 hp V6, the Enclave now has 288. That is a 22 hp bump, they will see that as enough improvements for who is buying these.  Plus Cadillac will have a version, so you can't put a 400 hp version in the Buick and a 300 hp version of the Cadillac.  They have to force people into the Cadillac somehow.

The Buick can have an optional Turbo V6 and Cadillac can do the same. Plenty of people don't care about speed as long as it is sufficient enough to merge onto the freeway... for that, the current V6 is sufficient for Cadillac as a base engine. 

[smk4565]

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The Buick can have an optional Turbo V6 and Cadillac can do the same. Plenty of people don't care about speed as long as it is sufficient enough to merge onto the freeway... for that, the current V6 is sufficient for Cadillac as a base engine. 

But Cadillac won't put a turbo V6 in an XT5, I doubt they would in an Enclave.  And car makers are going toward engine downsizing, I'd bet on a turbo 4 showing up in the Enclave before a turbo 6.

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, smk4565 said:

But Cadillac won't put a turbo V6 in an XT5, I doubt they would in an Enclave.  And car makers are going toward engine downsizing, I'd bet on a turbo 4 showing up in the Enclave before a turbo 6.

Correction. Cadillac doesn't need to put a Turbo V6 into the XT5.  GM already had to add a 3rd shift to Spring Hill to build Acadias and XT5s. Adding a Turbo V6 won't do anything to increase sales. 

[smk4565]

9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Correction. Cadillac doesn't need to put a Turbo V6 into the XT5.  GM already had to add a 3rd shift to Spring Hill to build Acadias and XT5s. Adding a Turbo V6 won't do anything to increase sales. 

It will increase sale price though.  Jaguar is putting a supercharged V8 in their crossover of similar size.  Mercedes doesn't  need to put a Bi turbo V8 in theGLC but they are doing it anyway.  Or maybe they do need to do it with the Stelvio coming. 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

It will increase sale price though.  Jaguar is putting a supercharged V8 in their crossover of similar size.  Mercedes doesn't  need to put a Bi turbo V8 in theGLC but they are doing it anyway.  Or maybe they do need to do it with the Stelvio coming. 

What kind of take rate do you see for a Turbo-V6 XT5? 5%? 10%?  Keep in mind the target market for these cars.....

[balthazar]

^ 'drag strips patrons'.

[G. David Felt]

41 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It will increase sale price though.  Jaguar is putting a supercharged V8 in their crossover of similar size.  Mercedes doesn't  need to put a Bi turbo V8 in theGLC but they are doing it anyway.  Or maybe they do need to do it with the Stelvio coming. 

Already having these motors as parts bin material makes it easy to add in a gas guzzling V8 near the end of the product cycle before the next all new version.

The world has changed and even in the wealthy circle, other than the brand snobs, I doubt we will see big engines continue much past 2020.

[Drew Dowdell]

The big thing is needing to re-engineer the turbo-V6 to work in a transverse layout and with the new 8-speed or 9-speed auto. I am unsure if the transverse 8-speed is built to handle the torque of the 3.6 TT.   Watch the XTS.... if the V-sport continues after the refresh (and I suspect it may not), then you may see the 3.6TT show up in other FWD based vehicles. 

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

What kind of take rate do you see for a Turbo-V6 XT5? 5%? 10%?  Keep in mind the target market for these cars.....

What is the take rate on ATS-V and CTS-V?  What is the take rate on an SQ5 or GLC43 vs the base model.  I don't really know, but it must be enough to build them.  

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The big thing is needing to re-engineer the turbo-V6 to work in a transverse layout and with the new 8-speed or 9-speed auto. I am unsure if the transverse 8-speed is built to handle the torque of the 3.6 TT.   Watch the XTS.... if the V-sport continues after the refresh (and I suspect it may not), then you may see the 3.6TT show up in other FWD based vehicles. 

Blows me away that GM doesn't make the LF3 a corporate engine. I really don't subscribe to the "Cadillac needs exclusive engine" stuff. I think Cadillac needs exclusive TUNING.. and an exclusive set mindset of Forced Induction and EV only. 

[Drew Dowdell]

8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

What is the take rate on ATS-V and CTS-V?  What is the take rate on an SQ5 or GLC43 vs the base model.  I don't really know, but it must be enough to build them.  

Higher than take rates on hi-po mid-size crossovers. There is also the engineering to account for. A turbo V6 xt5 isn't going to have anything to share it's power train with.

[Cmicasa the Great]

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Higher than take rates on hi-po mid-size crossovers. There is also the engineering to account for. A turbo V6 xt5 isn't going to have anything to share it's power train with.

Well why not?  The XT5 is platform mates with the Acadia, Enclave, Traverse. Zero reasons why the LF3 is not a company engine 4 years in. Tune it differently. No one is gonna bitch that there XT5 has the same engine as their less fortunate sister's Acadia, especially if the Acadia Denali is running a 360HP LF3 and the XT5 is running 390HP. Yes there is an opposite precedent set.. when the last gen CTS-V's LSA had 556HP and the ZL1 got 580HP from the same motor.. or now.. 640HP LT4 vs 650HP in the ZL1.. We kno its the same engine.. and the real power difference lies or laid in making it more luxuriously quiet with less aggressive exhaust, not to mention routing

[Drew Dowdell]

24 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Well why not?  The XT5 is platform mates with the Acadia, Enclave, Traverse. Zero reasons why the LF3 is not a company engine 4 years in. Tune it differently. No one is gonna bitch that there XT5 has the same engine as their less fortunate sister's Acadia, especially if the Acadia Denali is running a 360HP LF3 and the XT5 is running 390HP. Yes there is an opposite precedent set.. when the last gen CTS-V's LSA had 556HP and the ZL1 got 580HP from the same motor.. or now.. 640HP LT4 vs 650HP in the ZL1.. We kno its the same engine.. and the real power difference lies or laid in making it more luxuriously quiet with less aggressive exhaust, not to mention routing

I don't see the Acadia getting that engine.  Even the Enclave would be a longshot as much as we both may wish.

The only way I see it ever making it into the XT5 is if they put it in the XTS after the upgrade and possibly the LaCrosse.