Quick Drive: Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport Q4

[surreal1272]

11 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The 500 is a reliability dog, I know, but that doesn't mean the entire company is like that. 

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't but when you have a history like theirs and the first car you bring back to the states is the 500, then you have already set yourself up for failure and mountains of criticism. Even worse, is that if they fail again, they take down an American company in the process. The conscequneces of their failure is far greater this time around as a result.

[FordCosworth]

" As I coasted to a stop at the light, the Alfa’s stop/start system shut the engine off and simply never came back on, no matter what I tried—or how loud the cars behind me honked ".

" If you’re still on the fence, do as our Big Test suggests and lease first. But no matter what, get AAA. "

 

 

[surreal1272]

12 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

" As I coasted to a stop at the light, the Alfa’s stop/start system shut the engine off and simply never came back on, no matter what I tried—or how loud the cars behind me honked ".

" If you’re still on the fence, do as our Big Test suggests and lease first. But no matter what, get AAA. "

 

 

And on this rare occasion, we are in agreement lol. 

[ccap41]

LOL...AND IT BEGINS!...wait..again...still..

"As I coasted to a stop at the light, the Alfa’s stop/start system shut the engine off and simply never came back on, no matter what I tried—or how loud the cars behind me honked. I was stranded, and FCA’s roadside-assistance operators, kind and professional as they were, couldn’t help. They didn’t quite understand the need for a flatbed tow truck with special wheel jacks even though I repeatedly explained that the Quadrifoglio was completely bricked and the drive-by-wire transmission would not shift out of park. A regular tow truck wouldn’t suffice; even if it could get its rear-arm “stinger” under the car, lifting it by the hindquarters would only smash the front bumper into the ground."

...

"Moral of this story? Well, if you’re of the eye-rolling “Italian reliability” sensibility, that is understandable, but this is a data set of one. The base Giulia we had in The Big Test never missed a beat. If you’re still on the fence, do as our Big Test suggests and lease first. But no matter what, get AAA."

http://www.motortrend.com/news/alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-luck-of-the-half-irish/

 

 

 

@surreal1272 @dfelt @Stew

[surreal1272]

And one can try to bring up cars like the Vette but there is a big difference between a two of the same model high performance car  having the exact same problem and four different cars of the same model having four (and sometimes more) problems. One problem is easier to fix than four or more is the point here. 

[ccap41]

4 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

And one can try to bring up cars like the Vette but there is a big difference between a two of the same model high performance car  having the exact same problem and four different cars of the same model having four (and sometimes more) problems. One problem is easier to fix than four or more is the point here. 

Yep.. I agree.. if it was all the same problem I'd be less harsh as it could easily be one faulty part but when the issues are spread around I feel like it's just more of the same old Alfa. 

[Stew]

On 3/17/2017 at 2:00 PM, ccap41 said:

LOL...AND IT BEGINS!...wait..again...still..

"As I coasted to a stop at the light, the Alfa’s stop/start system shut the engine off and simply never came back on, no matter what I tried—or how loud the cars behind me honked. I was stranded, and FCA’s roadside-assistance operators, kind and professional as they were, couldn’t help. They didn’t quite understand the need for a flatbed tow truck with special wheel jacks even though I repeatedly explained that the Quadrifoglio was completely bricked and the drive-by-wire transmission would not shift out of park. A regular tow truck wouldn’t suffice; even if it could get its rear-arm “stinger” under the car, lifting it by the hindquarters would only smash the front bumper into the ground."

...

"Moral of this story? Well, if you’re of the eye-rolling “Italian reliability” sensibility, that is understandable, but this is a data set of one. The base Giulia we had in The Big Test never missed a beat. If you’re still on the fence, do as our Big Test suggests and lease first. But no matter what, get AAA."

http://www.motortrend.com/news/alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-luck-of-the-half-irish/

 

 

 

@surreal1272 @dfelt @Stew

And the one in the big test had no issues.  Again, first year models, any car suffer.  13 Escapes and Focuses suffered issue after issue and recall after recall, and yes, the Vette issue IS relevant because like the Alfa, it is low production.  And it is certainly comparable to the ATS which my brother's, BTW, started throwing codes again this weekend.  Of course it isn't a first year model and these kind of glitches should have been worked out at least before the 3rd model year.  Again, you can't damn one manufacturer and ignore the rest because it suits your needs at the time........

[Cmicasa the Great]

19 minutes ago, Stew said:

And the one in the big test had no issues.  Again, first year models, any car suffer.  13 Escapes and Focuses suffered issue after issue and recall after recall, and yes, the Vette issue IS relevant because like the Alfa, it is low production.  And it is certainly comparable to the ATS which my brother's, BTW, started throwing codes again this weekend.  Of course it isn't a first year model and these kind of glitches should have been worked out at least before the 3rd model year.  Again, you can't damn one manufacturer and ignore the rest because it suits your needs at the time........

Dude.. all I can say about U is that U seriously have issues... I personally can't say whether U are lying about your brother's ATS or not.. but even still.. even if it has had all these issues.. the vast majority of ATS's have not had any.. furthermore for the ONE person U site as having issues.. I can sit about 13 people who own the ATS.. and about 7 more who own the CTS in my own circle.. who have not had an issue once in their 4 or less years of ownership. Also.. are U really trying to justify a car that goes into DEATH MODE simply because its associated by name only.. with Chrysler.. your fav? Be honest.. if Sergio had of never gotten Chrysler and FCA was not est.. would U even care??? I doubt it. Look. If GM bought Hyundai tomorrow..  I wouldn't start loving Hyundai suddenly. It would take bout 20 years. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

On 3/17/2017 at 10:19 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

The 500 is a reliability dog, I know, but that doesn't mean the entire company is like that. 

according to JD Power.. and every damn person I kno with a Fiat, including a cat who purchased a 124 just two months ago.. who's engine died... they are "GOD DAMN POS THAT I WOULD SET ON FIRE IF I COULD ET AWAY WITH IT"     His words.. my laughter.

[surreal1272]

45 minutes ago, Stew said:

And the one in the big test had no issues.  Again, first year models, any car suffer.  13 Escapes and Focuses suffered issue after issue and recall after recall, and yes, the Vette issue IS relevant because like the Alfa, it is low production.  And it is certainly comparable to the ATS which my brother's, BTW, started throwing codes again this weekend.  Of course it isn't a first year model and these kind of glitches should have been worked out at least before the 3rd model year.  Again, you can't damn one manufacturer and ignore the rest because it suits your needs at the time........

Not even comparable in any way, and the reasons given have been plenty and valid. That dead horse has been beaten quite enough though so I guess when the next Alfa takes a dump during a test drive, we will just keep attributing to first year hiccups while giving more established models like the 500 a pass because they are on an "old platform".

 

That is the automotive version of Stockholm syndrome, for the record. 

[Stew]

On 3/20/2017 at 9:48 AM, Cmicasa the Great said:

Dude.. all I can say about U is that U seriously have issues... I personally can't say whether U are lying about your brother's ATS or not.. but even still.. even if it has had all these issues.. the vast majority of ATS's have not had any.. furthermore for the ONE person U site as having issues.. I can sit about 13 people who own the ATS.. and about 7 more who own the CTS in my own circle.. who have not had an issue once in their 4 or less years of ownership. Also.. are U really trying to justify a car that goes into DEATH MODE simply because its associated by name only.. with Chrysler.. your fav? Be honest.. if Sergio had of never gotten Chrysler and FCA was not est.. would U even care??? I doubt it. Look. If GM bought Hyundai tomorrow..  I wouldn't start loving Hyundai suddenly. It would take bout 20 years. 

You know I have stood up for GM and owned more GM than anything so your assertion is totally off base.  And yes, he has had these issues and his 09 CTS was worse (Sunroof and trunk leaks, AWD failure, and a wiring issue that caused his ABS to malfunction and actually caused him to get into an accident).  And i know many people who have had Cadillacs and swore them off because of issues.  more than likely you either don't know about your friends issues ar, like you accuse me of, are lying.  Cadillac has issues and that is part of the reason their sales pretty much suck right now.  It is a shame too, because the style, design, and drive are first rate.  My point is, there is no real proof that Alfa is going to be unreliable once they get past their first year.  Believe me, i have owned, and actually own 2 first year products (the Beetle and the Silverado (OH $h!!  I OWN A GM!!!!)  and they have their first year issues.  For the Beetle it is window issue, the Silverado, pinging 5.3.  My 97 F-150 rusted in 2. (literally, the frame split along the middle, same with the Silverado b ut not quite that bad).  Now, my Patriot was a first year model and it was probably the most reliable vehicle I have owned.  Bought it with 300 miles and sold with 126k miles.  Only had to do normal maintenance and front ball joints (did a lot of off0road in it).  So, before you make accusations look at yourself.  if it was GM offering this, you would be singing their praises and how it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  We all know this. 

On 3/20/2017 at 10:07 AM, surreal1272 said:

Not even comparable in any way, and the reasons given have been plenty and valid. That dead horse has been beaten quite enough though so I guess when the next Alfa takes a dump during a test drive, we will just keep attributing to first year hiccups while giving more established models like the 500 a pass because they are on an "old platform".

 

That is the automotive version of Stockholm syndrome, for the record. 

Listen, if 2 years in they are as unreliable as my brother's Cadillacs have been, i will give it to you that they are unreliable.  Sound like a deal?  And see above......

[Stew]

And for the record, my next round of vehicles will probably not be from FCA, GM, or Ford.  Would probably go for another VW before any of those 3 at this point (ZR2 and Power Wagon are the exceptions).  And let's get this straight, i am not talking Toyota and Honda quality here, GM quality, sure!

[surreal1272]

18 hours ago, Stew said:

You know I have stood up for GM and owned more GM than anything so your assertion is totally off base.  And yes, he has had these issues and his 09 CTS was worse (Sunroof and trunk leaks, AWD failure, and a wiring issue that caused his ABS to malfunction and actually caused him to get into an accident).  And i know many people who have had Cadillacs and swore them off because of issues.  more than likely you either don't know about your friends issues ar, like you accuse me of, are lying.  Cadillac has issues and that is part of the reason their sales pretty much suck right now.  It is a shame too, because the style, design, and drive are first rate.  My point is, there is no real proof that Alfa is going to be unreliable once they get past their first year.  Believe me, i have owned, and actually own 2 first year products (the Beetle and the Silverado (OH $h!!  I OWN A GM!!!!)  and they have their first year issues.  For the Beetle it is window issue, the Silverado, pinging 5.3.  My 97 F-150 rusted in 2. (literally, the frame split along the middle, same with the Silverado b ut not quite that bad).  Now, my Patriot was a first year model and it was probably the most reliable vehicle I have owned.  Bought it with 300 miles and sold with 126k miles.  Only had to do normal maintenance and front ball joints (did a lot of off0road in it).  So, before you make accusations look at yourself.  if it was GM offering this, you would be singing their praises and how it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  We all know this. 

Listen, if 2 years in they are as unreliable as my brother's Cadillacs have been, i will give it to you that they are unreliable.  Sound like a deal?  And see above......

Way to ignore literally everything else that has been said here in order to blindly defend the HOST of problems with Alfa. You have gone from not accepting any criticism of a preproduction car for a certain set of reasons to not accepting any criticism of it now that it has been revealed that they are actual production vechiles crappping out on testers. Throw that on top of defending the 500 because "it's on a old platform" (for the record, being on an old platform hasn't really hurt the Charger or 300 in the reliability department but we will just side step that little fact), and it is clear that you simply will not accept that Fiat and Alfa are not good cars, even if two years pass with the same problems. The proof is already there. All one needs to do is actually LOOK.

[Stew]

1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

Way to ignore literally everything else that has been said here in order to blindly defend the HOST of problems with Alfa. You have gone from not accepting any criticism of a preproduction car for a certain set of reasons to not accepting any criticism of it now that it has been revealed that they are actual production vechiles crappping out on testers. Throw that on top of defending the 500 because "it's on a old platform" (for the record, being on an old platform hasn't really hurt the Charger or 300 in the reliability department but we will just side step that little fact), and it is clear that you simply will not accept that Fiat and Alfa are not good cars, even if two years pass with the same problems. The proof is already there. All one needs to do is actually LOOK.

How?  i am going via my own experiences and you KNOW what I am saying is the truth.  Hell, if I was buying in that market it would be the new a4/5 or S4/5.  I am just realistic, not only when it comes tio first year quality and being equal with chances to not pretending like my favorite is perfect in the qualit and reliability department.  Sorry that GM and Ford and that great either and you can ignore things like engine failures and find that less worrisome than a sunroof that won't open.  I mean hell, what is the point in even arguing here?  You are going to damn them even if they end up having at least average quality and try to claim others have far better quality than they actually do.

[Drew Dowdell]

Back to your corners guys....

@surreal1272 we won't put any Alfa Romeo on your sandwich okay?  You don't have to have any. 

[surreal1272]

7 minutes ago, Stew said:

How?  i am going via my own experiences and you KNOW what I am saying is the truth.  Hell, if I was buying in that market it would be the new a4/5 or S4/5.  I am just realistic, not only when it comes tio first year quality and being equal with chances to not pretending like my favorite is perfect in the qualit and reliability department.  Sorry that GM and Ford and that great either and you can ignore things like engine failures and find that less worrisome than a sunroof that won't open.  I mean hell, what is the point in even arguing here?  You are going to damn them even if they end up having at least average quality and try to claim others have far better quality than they actually do.

Seriously? I know you're telling the truth? Umm, no. In fact, I think it is the opposite, hence my stance on Alfa and Fiat. You keep talking about "first year" problems but also give the "it's and old platform" stance for the 500. Which is it? Is it going to be the "truth" or the one that best suits your argument? Fact is that talking about 'X" friend having problems with "X" car means squat without proof. Meanwhile, we now have multiple publications with written and documented proof of the problems with the Giulia. Now, which one am I to believe? The friend that I don't know or the written proof of several national publications? Seems pretty easy to me but lets hear more about this denial. And your last sentence proves the issue with arguing with you about this. Even if they turn out to be bottom of the barrel in reliability (where they currently reside btw), you will never see it that way so your argument goes both ways. 

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Back to your corners guys....

@surreal1272 we won't put any Alfa Romeo on your sandwich okay?  You don't have to have any. 

Of course not. I wouldn't want the bread to fall apart for no good reason lol!

[Stew]

3 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Seriously? I know you're telling the truth? Umm, no. In fact, I think it is the opposite, hence my stance on Alfa and Fiat. You keep talking about "first year" problems but also give the "it's and old platform" stance for the 500. Which is it? Is it going to be the "truth" or the one that best suits your argument? Fact is that talking about 'X" friend having problems with "X" car means squat without proof. Meanwhile, we now have multiple publications with written and documented proof of the problems with the Giulia. Now, which one am I to believe? The friend that I don't know or the written proof of several national publications? Seems pretty easy to me but lets hear more about this denial. And your last sentence proves the issue with arguing with you about this. Even if they turn out to be bottom of the barrel in reliability (where they currently reside btw), you will never see it that way so your argument goes both ways. 

Of course not. I wouldn't want the bread to fall apart for no good reason lol!

Ya don't like truth and the facts?  no my problem.  I have owned at least 25 cars in my 21 years of driving, most have been GM, a lot of first year, last year, and every year in between models.  Cadillac, Pontiac, Chevy, and Buick have all been in my driveway, hell, there is a Chevy, 99 first year model btw, Silverado in my driveway right now.  My bug is also a first year model, my 2004 Dakota, and 11 Camry on the other hand are both from the last years for their generation.  Only my 01 Dakota falls in the middle area.  Anyways, for Pete's sake, i am done. 

[Drew Dowdell]

5 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Of course not. I wouldn't want the bread to fall apart for no good reason lol!

 

[surreal1272]

8 minutes ago, Stew said:

Ya don't like truth and the facts?  no my problem.  I have owned at least 25 cars in my 21 years of driving, most have been GM, a lot of first year, last year, and every year in between models.  Cadillac, Pontiac, Chevy, and Buick have all been in my driveway, hell, there is a Chevy, 99 first year model btw, Silverado in my driveway right now.  My bug is also a first year model, my 2004 Dakota, and 11 Camry on the other hand are both from the last years for their generation.  Only my 01 Dakota falls in the middle area.  Anyways, for Pete's sake, i am done. 

Again with the "truth or facts" argument that you haven't really backed up other than saying "well my friends Cadillac is junk" while others have written and documented proof of Alfa's initial problems. Hmmmm, which to go with...

 

BTW, I have over 28 years of car ownership with multiple makes and models so why you felt compelled to bring that up, I haven't the foggiest. It has nothing to do with Alfas problems early on (as well as their checkered history). 

 

I guess as Drew pointed out, "let it go, let it go...". LMAO!

Edited March 22, 2017 by surreal1272

[Stew]

10 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Again with the "truth or facts" argument that you haven't really backed up other than saying "well my friends Cadillac is junk" while others have written and documented proof of Alfa's initial problems. Hmmmm, which to go with...

 

BTW, I have over 28 years of car ownership with multiple makes and models so why you felt compelled to bring that up, I haven't the foggiest. It has nothing to do with Alfas problems early on (as well as their checkered history). 

 

I guess as Drew pointed out, "let it go, let it go...". LMAO!

What I have said has everything to do with it, but yes.  Let it go. 

[surreal1272]

4 minutes ago, Stew said:

What I have said has everything to do with it, but yes.  Let it go. 

I am entititled to an honest rebuttal. You don't get to decide whether I "let it go" or not unless you want me to bring up the fact that you said you were done on your previous post (when you clearly weren't). See how that works?

 

Now I'm done lol.

Edited March 22, 2017 by surreal1272

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

I am entitled to an honest rebuttal. You don't get to decide whether I "let it go".

But I do.... you've had your rebuttal... now let it go.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Love my Cadillac, GMC, and Chevys. Ex loves her Buick.

A man who has owned a Fiat.. knu better to never own a Fiat again.......Confucius said that.. I think

in other news... "Fiat Chrysler faces French probe for emissions violations, report says"

Edited March 22, 2017 by Drew Dowdell
lol, you know why I had to edit that....

[surreal1272]

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

But I do.... you've had your rebuttal... now let it go.

Oh good grief people. Did everyone wake up on the wrong side of the cage this morning? 

[Stew]

29 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Love my Cadillac, GMC, and Chevys. Ex loves her Buick.

A man who has owned a Fiat.. knu better to never own a Fiat again.  Confucius said that.. I think

in other news... "Fiat Chrysler faces French probe for emissions violations, report says"

Of course, GM could buy the old Yugo plant and start building them and you would claim everybody loves their Yugo and never has issues.  That said, my brother loves his ATS, as do I, but neither of us pretends it is a reliability champion. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by Drew Dowdell
edited to remove quote from a moderated post

[Drew Dowdell]

Does anyone have anything about the Giulia? Maybe questions for @Anthony Fongaro? 

[Stew]

How was the new turbo 4?  Did it have decent torque?  Did the transmission work well with it?  Any NVH issues?

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, Stew said:

Of course, GM could buy the old Yugo plant and start building them and you would claim everybody loves their Yugo and never has issues.  That said, my brother loves his ATS, as do I, but neither of us pretends it is a reliability champion. 

No... No.. But even I didn't celebrate its purchase of Daewoo until American influence became apart of their engineering. So U are wrong.. Again 

[Stew]

Just now, Cmicasa the Great said:

No... No.. But even I didn't celebrate its purchase of Daewoo until American influence became apart of their engineering. So U are wrong.. Again 

If you could even remotely like Daewoo at any point.......

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 

LOL!

THAT is stuff I do!

Love them youtube videos!

Eat your heart out @Cmicasa the Great

Others do my dirty work for me!

Ignore me all you want...I aint going away big boy!

 

 

22 minutes ago, Stew said:

If you could even remotely like Daewoo at any point.......

Dont worry about him Stew....

He means well...

About the Guilia

[Stew]

5 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

LOL!

THAT is stuff I do!

Love them youtube videos!

Eat your heart out @Cmicasa the Great

Others do my dirty work for me!

Ignore me all you want...I aint going away big boy!

 

 

Dont worry about him Stew....

He means well...

About the Guilia

Hahaha  It's all good. 

[Drew Dowdell]

32 minutes ago, Stew said:

If you could even remotely like Daewoo at any point.......

Incredibly off topic, but when they first came out, the Daewoos looked great on paper.  The transverse inline-6 in the Leganza wasn't a MPG queen, but who cared, gas was 89 cents a gallon.  The engine was one of the best things about that car because it was Lexus smooth and the interiors could fool you into thinking they were a Lexus from the pictures.  Not too bad for a car that was $4,000 cheaper than an equivalent Accord or $5,000 less than a Camry. 

 

They had their reliability issues, but what really killed them was their horrendous sales process. They tried to use a combination of college kids doing multi-level marketing and buy-here-pay-here lots, while service was to be taken care of at K-Mart (if memory serves on that last point). Not confidence inspiring.

Tyinging this to Alfa.  We have a single Alfa-Romeo dealer here in Pittsburgh at an Automotive Group I've never even heard of.  From the architecture in the pictures, they look like they're an old Chrysler-Plymouth Dealer who now covers Chrysler-Dodge-Ram-Jeep-Fiat-Alfa Romeo.  When Lexus came to this country, they had purpose built showrooms, so this shoving a couple cars in the back corner of an ex-Plymouth showroom doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me.  

In this particular case, the dealership is also 25 miles outside of the city and the next closest one is 70 miles away in Ohio.. so they better have a Tesla like pickup/drop-off service for people who are coming from BMW or Benz and used to having a dealership near downtown.  

Edit to add:  You literally have to drive past BMW (twice), Mercedes, Jaguar, Land Rover, Cadillac, Lexus (up to twice), Lincoln, Volvo, Audi, and possibly even Maserati just to get to the only Alfa dealership here.

Vehicle issues aside, the dealership network could be the thing that makes or breaks Alfa in the US.  It's largely what killed Daewoo. 

[oldshurst442]

Nobody buys Alfa Romeos because they are reliable appliances...

People buy Alfa Romeos to satisfy their lust for sin!

If we could personify automobiles and cars were women, we would date a Camaro for a few years and marry a very faithful Corolla.

Alfa Romeos are strippers and whores we booze around with in Las Vegas!

 

[Stew]

8 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Incredibly off topic, but when they first came out, the Daewoos looked great on paper.  The transverse inline-6 in the Leganza wasn't a MPG queen, but who cared, gas was 89 cents a gallon.  The engine was one of the best things about that car because it was Lexus smooth and the interiors could fool you into thinking they were a Lexus from the pictures.  Not too bad for a car that was $4,000 cheaper than an equivalent Accord or $5,000 less than a Camry. 

 

They had their reliability issues, but what really killed them was their horrendous sales process. They tried to use a combination of college kids doing multi-level marketing and buy-here-pay-here lots, while service was to be taken care of at K-Mart (if memory serves on that last point). Not confidence inspiring.

Tyinging this to Alfa.  We have a single Alfa-Romeo dealer here in Pittsburgh at an Automotive Group I've never even heard of.  From the architecture in the pictures, they look like they're an old Chrysler-Plymouth Dealer who now covers Chrysler-Dodge-Ram-Jeep-Fiat-Alfa Romeo.  When Lexus came to this country, they had purpose built showrooms, so this shoving a couple cars in the back corner of an ex-Plymouth showroom doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me.  

In this particular case, the dealership is also 25 miles outside of the city and the next closest one is 70 miles away in Ohio.. so they better have a Tesla like pickup/drop-off service for people who are coming from BMW or Benz and used to having a dealership near downtown.

Vehicle issues aside, the dealership network could be the thing that makes or breaks Alfa in the US.  It's largely what killed Daewoo. 

Oh, I certainly agree there.   That has been a major issue for Fiat  as well, but they seem to expanding there some.  Yeah, I remember that weird marketing and sales practices now that you mention it.  Their cars weren't exactly decent looking either (exterior).  I feel this hurts cadillac some as well.  They do have some decent dealerships that are specific to them, but then you have ones like our local dealer who treats you like just some other Chevy customer, and their loaners are even last gen Impalas.  Now, the dealership my brother bought his car from in Indiana is VERY nice, but they are a high end dealer.  Salesman drove the car down and even went over the features in a mall parking lot. 

3 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Nobody buys Alfa Romeos because they are reliable appliances...

People buy Alfa Romeos to satisfy their lust for sin!

If we could personify automobiles and cars were women, we would date a Camaro for a few years and marry a very faithful Corolla.

Alfa Romeos are strippers and whores we booze around with in Las Vegas!

 

Okay, I love this analogy!

[Drew Dowdell]

Cadillac has a very inconsistent dealership network, that is certainly true.  I've seen a Cadillac / Rolls dealer that would blow you away, yet others are how you described... more interested in volume sales of Equinoxes......

[G. David Felt]

18 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

If we could personify automobiles and cars were women, we would date a Camaro for a few years and marry a very faithful Corolla.

Alfa Romeos are strippers and whores we booze around with in Las Vegas!

So can I get a wife dressed this way but with all the Asian faithfulness?  

10 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Cadillac has a very inconsistent dealership network, that is certainly true.  I've seen a Cadillac / Rolls dealer that would blow you away, yet others are how you described... more interested in volume sales of Equinoxes......

Totally agree with this! 

My cadillac dealership is great, the people go out of their way and over all I have been happy with 95% of everything.

Yet this dealership is in a building that used to be a Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Hummer dealership. The old signage is still all over and the place has that old musty smell. 

Time for a major remodel for the 21st Century!

[Stew]

9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Cadillac has a very inconsistent dealership network, that is certainly true.  I've seen a Cadillac / Rolls dealer that would blow you away, yet others are how you described... more interested in volume sales of Equinoxes......

hopefully they will start that dealership overhaul sooner rather than later.  Especially once you reach a certain price point the expectations for he dealership and service goes way up.  It has to be all inclusive too, it can't just look the part, it has to be the part.  One of y brother's issue with his Audi was actually the dealership.   It was beautiful, awesome comfy showroom with wood floors and cushy offices, but the techs were awful.  It hink half the problems he had stemmed from their incompetence. 

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, Stew said:

hopefully they will start that dealership overhaul sooner rather than later.  Especially once you reach a certain price point the expectations for he dealership and service goes way up.  It has to be all inclusive too, it can't just look the part, it has to be the part.  One of y brother's issue with his Audi was actually the dealership.   It was beautiful, awesome comfy showroom with wood floors and cushy offices, but the techs were awful.  It hink half the problems he had stemmed from their incompetence. 

With the overhaul of the dealers needs to also be a required update of training for the mechanics and specialization by each one. Auto's today are very complex and need the specialty training to make sure they resolve issues on the first time for the majority of the cases, like 99.9% of the time.

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, Stew said:

hopefully they will start that dealership overhaul sooner rather than later.  Especially once you reach a certain price point the expectations for he dealership and service goes way up.  It has to be all inclusive too, it can't just look the part, it has to be the part.  One of y brother's issue with his Audi was actually the dealership.   It was beautiful, awesome comfy showroom with wood floors and cushy offices, but the techs were awful.  It hink half the problems he had stemmed from their incompetence. 

That was my experience years ago with the local VW dealer. A beautiful Apple Store of a place, modern, airy.  Techs that couldn't fix worth a damn and management that couldn't care less about it.  And they were the Phaeton certified dealership for the area.... I pity the Phaeton owners who took their cars there. 

[Stew]

3 minutes ago, dfelt said:

With the overhaul of the dealers needs to also be a required update of training for the mechanics and specialization by each one. Auto's today are very complex and need the specialty training to make sure they resolve issues on the first time for the majority of the cases, like 99.9% of the time.

I agree 100%  Just about any new car is going to go to the dealership at some point for warranty or recall work and if the service department does not instill trust during this or regular maintenance it can certainly hurt them. 

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That was my experience years ago with the local VW dealer. A beautiful Apple Store of a place, modern, airy.  Techs that couldn't fix worth a damn and management that couldn't care less about it.  And they were the Phaeton certified dealership for the area.... I pity the Phaeton owners who took their cars there. 

Oh yes, I can imagine.  They need to not only talk the talk, but walk the walk. 

[oldshurst442]

14 minutes ago, dfelt said:

So can I get a wife dressed this way but with all the Asian faithfulness?  

I dont know how you feel about Predator face, but for me it works big time on this model!

And just look at the lines of the rest of the car...sexiful!

OKAY!

Back to Alfa Romeo....

 

Edited March 22, 2017 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

27 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I don't know how you feel about Predator face, but for me it works big time on this model!

And just look at the lines of the rest of the car...sexiful!

OKAY!

Back to Alfa Romeo....

PASS, Hate the Predator look. But I raise you one sexy Silver Frost CTS-V Coupe! 

This is so superior to Alfa!  

[Drew Dowdell]

[Stew]

 

It is a sexy coupe too

Come to think of it, aren't they showing the Giulia coupe next month?

[surreal1272]

8 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

GM needs to pull their heads out of their asses and build this already! Best looking Buick since the 80s GNX!

[G. David Felt]

27 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 

18 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

GM needs to pull their heads out of their asses and build this already! Best looking Buick since the 80s GNX!

Agree, this would make an awesome GNX with the TTV6.

[Stew]

They should really build that, but if it ever sees production, it is petty well a guarantee it would be a 4 door "coupe."

[Anthony Fongaro]

On 22/03/2017 at 10:49 AM, Stew said:

How was the new turbo 4?  Did it have decent torque?  Did the transmission work well with it?  Any NVH issues?

It pulled very hard and had a lot of torque. The transmission felt like your standard 8-speed and initially no NVH issues to report.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, Anthony Fongaro said:

It pulled very hard and had a lot of torque. The transmission felt like your standard 8-speed and initially no NVH issues to report.

Initially?

[G. David Felt]

5 hours ago, Stew said:

They should really build that, but if it ever sees production, it is petty well a guarantee it would be a 4 door "coupe."

Nothing wrong with a 4 Door GNX!  

2 hours ago, Anthony Fongaro said:

It pulled very hard and had a lot of torque. The transmission felt like your standard 8-speed and initially no NVH issues to report.

Expand please on the Initially comment? 

Inquiring minds want to know!