GM News: General Motors Plans More Cuts

[Drew Dowdell]

20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 Speaking of Cadillac though, I was wondering the other day why they don't combine up a pair of 3.0TT V6s from the CT6 to make a 6 liter TT V12 for the Escalade?   Seems like a no brainer.

An engine is not just an App you download...

[daves87rs]

14 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

To be honest your comment is your opinion as stated as such. The CTS not exciting U is irrelevant as to whether it is a world beater in reality. As pointed out.. the CTS is still considered to be quite lite in weight versus the competition. So where is that fat? Are U comparing it to the new lesson learned in its new sister platform OMEGA? Truly.. is it in your head that for some reason when the next gen CTS(CT5) arrives Cadillac will have neglected to use those lessons in lightening the load? A CT6 currently weighs less than the CTS.. why wouldn't the next gen CTS be lighter since it is smaller??? Of course I'm talking about future iterations that are a year away.. while U are talking as if the CTS is for some reason no longer a competitive ride within its class.

Its still considered the best handling in the class.. best braking by all accounts... one of the quickest around a road course... and looks??? While certainly subjective I continue to get praise as well as admiration for picking " such a beautiful car..." versus the ho-hum of the 5series, M5 or otherwise.. or blandness of the Jellybean that is the A6.. or the mainstream mimic GS.. a car that I have to focus on hard with my Lasik corrected eyes just to discern whether it be an Accord.. Mazda6.. "what the f@#k is that... " My words.. just the other day. In fact the XF is the only car in the class that comes off as unique.. and it is about a decade old at this point..despite the supposed change... having competed with the SECOND GEN CTS. I kno.. because I compared the XFR before I bought my first '09 CTSV Sedan Pearl. 

Prestige. I am here to tell U that the trails of slobber that glisten from Valet stand to my door when I pull up in my CTS are quite evident.. the friends who might follow in their run of the mill.. dime a dozen German Midsize seem to get no more props than someone pulling up in a damn Camry. 

Sorry.. but in truth.. as weird as it may sound.. A CTS is now damn near an exotic compared to the 5series BMW. If for no other reason than over-saturation of the market.. (which is good for BMW's sales but bad for resale and prestige) and Cadillac's lack of proper marketing.. Altho I will admit that the current CTS-V commercial that is being run is pretty fantastic

 

 

 

Now don't get me wrong....I'm not here to bash away on the CTS. I love the interior, and it has always handled well in it's class. But in order to take that step up, it needs to leave a little trail of smoke... 

To me, it just needs to up it's game a little. I work in the auto industry now, and have driven all of the players against the CTS.  It buries the Benz,, but I think it's not at BMW's level of fun yet as far as the driving experience. I think I'm harder on the CTS because I expect more a a fan of the general.... That said, I think the upcoming CTS will be something you and I can agree on...

As far as status, here in the Motor City I still see quite a few more Benz, Beemers and Audi than I see Caddies...which worries me a bit when you're supposed to have home team advange....though depending on the area-the Caddy Trucks showing up to get their shine on....

 

As long GM doesn't get too crazy about the chopping block- I see some game changers ahead.......

[daves87rs]

23 hours ago, dfelt said:

When you see BMW, Audi and MB everywhere especially a ton of the 3 class and C class and A3 and cheaper models compared to my Escalade. I stay I have plenty of status. I take my Escalade ESV Platinum edition any day over those other companies.

Forgot about the Caddy Trucks......love those!

[smk4565]

9 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

An engine is not just an App you download...

They have powertrain engineers right?

9 hours ago, dfelt said:

First off the TT V6 was not planned to be doubled to a V12 and the days of a V12 are coming to a close. The investment makes no business sense as even BMW and MB is having to find alternative places to sell their bigger motors as the R&D dollars are no longer recoverable in such a small numbers of auto's sold.

The future is smaller Turbo / Supercharged ICE engines, Hybrids and EV's. You know this as you have even pointed out the future of your beloved MB hybrid and EV programs.

But there isn't a turbo charged or supercharged Escalade either.  There isn't a downsized engine, isn't a hybrid, they don't do any of that stuff either.

[Cmicasa the Great]

8 hours ago, daves87rs said:

 

Now don't get me wrong....I'm not here to bash away on the CTS. I love the interior, and it has always handled well in it's class. But in order to take that step up, it needs to leave a little trail of smoke... 

To me, it just needs to up it's game a little. I work in the auto industry now, and have driven all of the players against the CTS.  It buries the Benz,, but I think it's not at BMW's level of fun yet as far as the driving experience. I think I'm harder on the CTS because I expect more a a fan of the general.... That said, I think the upcoming CTS will be something you and I can agree on...

As far as status, here in the Motor City I still see quite a few more Benz, Beemers and Audi than I see Caddies...which worries me a bit when you're supposed to have home team advange....though depending on the area-the Caddy Trucks showing up to get their shine on....

 

As long GM doesn't get too crazy about the chopping block- I see some game changers ahead.......

But the thing is that the CTS... from 2.0L to V is really not supposed to be leaning too far to the Sport side.. it was designed.. from my reading and talks with certain individuals.. to be a happy in between.. a marriage of both Luxury and Sport. The BMW formula, at least the 550 and M5.. are supposed to go towards sport... which would worry me if I was a BMW lover, because it doesn't do it as well as it used to.. failing on some levels where as the CTS tends to follow thru on its promise whole-heartedly.

Let me explain.. The BMW 5 Series.. if U drove a few.. would and should have left U with a feeling that the 5 drove "kinda big."  To me it felt as if I was actually driving a 7 Series in terms of dynamics.. Like the 5 Series was BIG. Driving my CTS.. or any I have.. hell even the CT6, makes U feel as tho U are driving a car one size down. Its amazing in fact. My STS was the start.. but it still felt like a large car.. the two Second Gen CTS-Vs (a sedan and then a coupe) got even better at this.. but still not on this level. BMW as a whole.. (ever drive a new 3 Series).. feels like they are actually screwed over the segment.. despite sales, which is a whole nother story.. when they decided to make their cars a size up to give more backseat room. A 3Series has a lil bit more legroom in the rear than an ATS they will complain, but the ATS is actually a PERFECT, and improved BMW 3series E46.. widely accepted as the greatest 3series ever for its handling and sporting feel. It is the one that created the "World's Ultimate Driving Machine" mantra that BMW falsely uses today. Problem is that the 3series is the segment leader.. so all must follow.. and because it has a bigger backseat so must the "followers.." This is also true of the ride and handling. The 3Series closest competitor in handling IMO... is the damn Lexus IS. Which is sad. Please CADILLAC DO NOT SCREW OVER THE ATS NEXT GEN.

As for the driving demographic of the Motor City.. they have reaped what they sewn. Anyone in Detroit.. no Michigan and Ohio.. who are driving a Foreign make.. any make.. and out of work, complaining about their neighbor, family out of work.. or the conditions of those states.. mostly due to lost Tax revenue.. should look out to their driveway and see what is parked in it.. then commence in giving themselves 100 old style Catholic back lashes. 

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But there isn't a turbo charged or supercharged Escalade either.  There isn't a downsized engine, isn't a hybrid, they don't do any of that stuff either.

While I see an Escalade with an LT4 as a sweet proposition.. it is absolutely the last one of Cadillac's vehicles that I think needs one. The Escalade.. in fact.. would make more fans if it gave an even more upscale interior over the Platinum.. which is already plush.  I think GM holds back on this application of engine due to CAFE restrictions that it (and Ford) has more than any of the Euro makes due to the other trucks they have. In fact..I could see a Diesel Escalade before they did a S/C one. To put it bluntly an LT4 powered Escalade would probably get 10/15. Its a big truck after all. What GM would be better at doing is licensing the engine to aftermarket builders like Hennessy.. which I suspect they do somewhat.. so that way it doesn't count against them.

[G. David Felt]

33 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They have powertrain engineers right?

But there isn't a turbo charged or supercharged Escalade either.  There isn't a downsized engine, isn't a hybrid, they don't do any of that stuff either.

True there is not, and that does not mean that there should not be a Supercharged version. I have always wanted a V edition of an escalade. There used to be a Hybrid version and Cadillac sold every one they got and you rarely see them on the used market as they just last and get an average of 22 mpg. Sadly some bean counter said it is not really selling and killed the program when they never really advertised it outside the first year. I know many with money that would still buy new Hybrids or pure EV versions of the Escalade if it was available.

Tesla proves a properly done EV CUV sells, I believe this can also work for a true SUV.

[smk4565]

9 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

While I see an Escalade with an LT4 as a sweet proposition.. it is absolutely the last one of Cadillac's vehicles that I think needs one. The Escalade.. in fact.. would make more fans if it gave an even more upscale interior over the Platinum.. which is already plush.  I think GM holds back on this application of engine due to CAFE restrictions that it (and Ford) has more than any of the Euro makes due to the other trucks they have. In fact..I could see a Diesel Escalade before they did a S/C one. To put it bluntly an LT4 powered Escalade would probably get 10/15. Its a big truck after all. What GM would be better at doing is licensing the engine to aftermarket builders like Hennessy.. which I suspect they do somewhat.. so that way it doesn't count against them.

When I sit in an Escalade I still feel like I am sitting in a Tahoe.  The dash shape and arm rests are similar, even though they swap out the head units and trim, the 2nd row seat mounts are direct from Chevy, it just doesn't feel like a luxury vehicle in back, it feels like a Suburban.   That being said I think for sure they could up the luxury level in it.  I actually think Cadillac could build an SUV above Escalade that starts over $100,000.   Cadillac could sell way more $125,000 SUVs than they could $100k+ sedans and sports cars put together.

Compare that to...

One is the best Cadillac, the other is a Chevy.   It is the same carpet, same plastic moldings, etc 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

When I sit in an Escalade I still feel like I am sitting in a Tahoe.  The dash shape and arm rests are similar, even though they swap out the head units and trim, the 2nd row seat mounts are direct from Chevy, it just doesn't feel like a luxury vehicle in back, it feels like a Suburban.   That being said I think for sure they could up the luxury level in it.  I actually think Cadillac could build an SUV above Escalade that starts over $100,000.   Cadillac could sell way more $125,000 SUVs than they could $100k+ sedans and sports cars put together.

Compare that to...

One is the best Cadillac, the other is a Chevy.   It is the same carpet, same plastic moldings, etc 

That is no different than what you find at MB from their high end CUV to their cheap ass bottom end CUV.

In regards to Dash, SMK your smoking crack to say these two are identical.

[Cmicasa the Great]

45 minutes ago, dfelt said:

That is no different than what you find at MB from their high end CUV to their cheap ass bottom end CUV.

In regards to Dash, SMK your smoking crack to say these two are identical.

Half the shit he says I'd swear a 13 year old kid who's never been in a car.. If any kind was posting 

[smk4565]

They have the same arm rest basically, same width to the center console, same shifter, vertical vents in the center, horizontal on the sides, to me it is similar.   Different center stacks and nav screens, different door trim.   The have done a better job over the years making the Escalade different compared to the early 2000s when it was so much like a Tahoe, but it is still a Tahoe.  And I still think they could make a better crossover on Omega and perhaps position that above Escalade, but then they'd have to call it XT9 and Escalade wouldn't fit the naming scheme.  Cadillac boxed themselves into a corner with this naming scheme.

[G. David Felt]

@smk4565 Yet MB has pretty much done the Same thing. Searching online for 2017 Mercedesx-benz GL# where number equals letter, you can see that pretty much they use the same seat with tweaks across the whole product line. How is this any different than GM using the same bones across Chevy, GMC & Cadillac. 

Clearly people seem to not notice since Escalade Sales still are strong regardless of what is sold as a Chevy or GMC.

C-Class

E-Class

S-Class

Now for Seats, Let's see how MB has pretty much used the same seats across all models.

GLA

GLC

GLE

GLK

[Robert Hall]

7 hours ago, dfelt said:

@smk4565 Yet MB has pretty much done the Same thing. Searching online for 2017 Mercedesx-benz GL# where number equals letter, you can see that pretty much they use the same seat with tweaks across the whole product line. How is this any different than GM using the same bones across Chevy, GMC & Cadillac. 

Clearly people seem to not notice since Escalade Sales still are strong regardless of what is sold as a Chevy or GMC.

 

Apples and oranges, though...those MB models are models within the same brand--you would expect a lot of parts commonality; while with GM you are talking about models across 3 distinct brands (or divisions as GM called them when they had a bunch more).   Platform and component sharing at GM and other multi-brand companies is nothing new, VW does it across it's many brands, Ford does it, etc.  

Today's Escalade is much more distinctly separated inside and out from the Chevy/GMC models than it was it's first two generations, when it used the same dash, etc. 

[smk4565]

Exactly, they are in the same brand.   I don't have a problem with Cadillac using the same parts in a CTS and an Xt5 or Escalade, I have a problem with Cadillac using Chevy parts.  In fact I have often said Cadillac should build crossovers off the ATS and CT6 platforms and share more within the brand, rather than use Chevy platforms.

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Exactly, they are in the same brand.   I don't have a problem with Cadillac using the same parts in a CTS and an Xt5 or Escalade, I have a problem with Cadillac using Chevy parts.  In fact I have often said Cadillac should build crossovers off the ATS and CT6 platforms and share more within the brand, rather than use Chevy platforms.

Yet MB uses many of the same parts in their Commercial line, SmartCarp line and their Eco cheap products to ubber expensive products. So how is this any different than GM using the bones across all their product lines with various levels of quality of end materials and looks.

Oh, Right it is not, but for MB it is OK to move the goal post and not accept this fact.

If GM killed the names of Chevy, Buick, GMC and Cadillac and just went global as GM and had everything from the subcompacts to the 100K auto's, SUV's and Trucks no different than what MB has done, what would your response be then SMK?

[Cmicasa the Great]

7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Exactly, they are in the same brand.   I don't have a problem with Cadillac using the same parts in a CTS and an Xt5 or Escalade, I have a problem with Cadillac using Chevy parts.  In fact I have often said Cadillac should build crossovers off the ATS and CT6 platforms and share more within the brand, rather than use Chevy platforms.

U would run a company outta business in no time. As long as Cadillac is using premium parts from Chevy in a limited capacity.. I see zero reason why they would need to have exclusive run of the mill parts. Its ludicrous especially when in many cases the parts coming out of an LTZ or HIGH COUNTRY.. are as high a quality if not more so than what is in your precious overly expensive for what it is POS Benz.

Come on Brah.. the Chevy Tahoe/Subur interior blatantly looks more upscale and luxo than the "Hitler's Baby Mama Car" 

 

[smk4565]

I actually think the current GLS is weak in the interior department by Mercedes standards.  It is still better than any Chevy, but it isn't as good as the E-class interior, which they will address on the new model.   The build quality is good on the GLS interior but it isn't pretty or artistic and lacks the luxury of say an S-class.

[oldshurst442]

Im gonna steer the conversation in different direction.

Not because I want to, but because I had a conversation with @dfelt in the wagon only Regal thread and I philosophized this opinion somehow and I feel it became relevant for this thread...

So for better or worse...my opinion somehow became this about GM's downsizing as of late:

From this thought:

Quote

 

Here is a thought.

Maybe Buick  could do its Buick magic in China being all  conservative and such and GM just rebranding Buick as Oldsmobile here in North America while having no strings attached for having two different images for different markets for one brand.

No need to create new body panels, just a different name...

Oldsmobile (or Pontiac for that matter) could be that sexy and aggressive image North Americans crave and Buick could be that conservative luxury image they crave...

Oldsmobile AND Pontiac had life in them when they died, and both were starting to hone in their AGGRESSIVE but FOCUSED marketing plans and product lines....

Buick seems to stagnate in North America because there is no CLEAR North American plan.

 

I went to this thought:

Quote

 

To tell you the truth, I wont mind if GM kills off Buick...in North America, and never really replaces it other than with Cadillac and Chevrolet.

GM seems to be downsizing quite a bit, with announcements of even killing off low selling products and segments and leaving Europe as of now.  And I see and understand that vision.

Chevy wants to kill off small Segment A and B cars? No problem as Cadillac seems to want to embrace those segments..

It aint a problem as it seems sheeple prefer the badge on the front of the car.Is it really a death knell if BMW, AUDI and Mercedes are doing it?

It was in the 1980s, this aint 1980 anymore....2017 folk dont seem to mind this....adapt or die....and its working for the Germans so far....

If the pendulum seems to going against this sometime in the future, dont miss the negative trend and adjust back....EVOLVE to the CURRENT TRENDS is the answer...

So GM gets to sell small cars with Cadillac in North America if Cadillac gets that done right, because it seems that GM has NEVER been able to sell small cars properly...  go GLOBAL with Cadillac with the small cars as well, and be like BMW, AUDI and Mercedes GLOBALLY with the small cars...and also have Chinese small Buicks too GLOBALLY.....

Chevrolet does everything else in North America like FoMoCo does with....Ford.

Except that FoMoCo does small cars real good in ANY market...

Except that FoMoCo is missing the middle luxury segment. Platinum Fords are good, and Lincoln suffers for it!

So does GM as I think Buick is heading for a downward spiral. But Cadillac might have a leg up on both Buick and Lincoln in North America...

Interesting times going forward...

 

 

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442
GM New product flow

Chevy - every persons auto from eco ultra sub compact to full size truck / SUV.

GMC - Drops Buick name and everything is labeled GMC.

Cadillac - Luxury

Or were you also thinking maybe time to kill off GMC?

[oldshurst442]

36 minutes ago, dfelt said:

@oldshurst442
GM New product flow

Chevy - every persons auto from eco ultra sub compact to full size truck / SUV.

GMC - Drops Buick name and everything is labeled GMC.

Cadillac - Luxury

Or were you also thinking maybe time to kill off GMC?

GMC is a toughie!

NO!

Id keep GMC only because all that is gold in today's automotive landscape is CUVs and SUVs  and GMC is EXACTLY THAT! A brand that SPECIALIZES in CUVs and SUVs so Id give GMC more SPECIALIZED CUV and SUV products!

I HATE the BMW X6...But if I was Mary Barra, Cadillac would be on its 2nd generation BMW X6 and GMC on its 3rd...

[Cmicasa the Great]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I actually think the current GLS is weak in the interior department by Mercedes standards.  It is still better than any Chevy, but it isn't as good as the E-class interior, which they will address on the new model.   The build quality is good on the GLS interior but it isn't pretty or artistic and lacks the luxury of say an S-class.

And after being in a few Benz lately.. from GLS to C to S.. I'm further convinced that U have literally bumped your head. YES!!! I'm arguing that Benz has fallen so down hill as of late.. that Chevy's over $40K bunch.. has better interiors than they do. We can argue that the leather in the GLS is better or not, than what is in the freaking Tahoe.. but it becomes ridiculous when in sets reality; The reality that BENZ SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE DEFENDED AGAINST A CHEVY. Bring in the Escalade.. and U just may as well have kept your effin mouth shut.. cause the argument was over before it started. Cadillac FTW. 

Next Up. Chevy Traverse vs Mercedes GLE Interior 

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

And after being in a few Benz lately.. from GLS to C to S.. I'm further convinced that U have literally bumped your head. YES!!! I'm arguing that Benz has fallen so down hill as of late.. that Chevy's over $40K bunch.. has better interiors than they do. We can argue that the leather in the GLS is better or not, than what is in the freaking Tahoe.. but it becomes ridiculous when in sets reality; The reality that BENZ SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE DEFENDED AGAINST A CHEVY. Bring in the Escalade.. and U just may as well have kept your effin mouth shut.. cause the argument was over before it started. Cadillac FTW. 

Next Up. Chevy Traverse vs Mercedes GLE Interior 

Benz hasn't fallen at all they have been the luxury leader after dispatching Lexus and BMW atop the sales charts despite charging more for a similar model.  Lexus IS about to dump the GS altogether since the E-class dominates the segment so much.  I'd still take a GLS interior over the Escalade, the GLS interior is dated, but well made, the Escalade interior is more modern but with a lot of plastic and Silverado feel.  And the GLS will out accelerate, out handle, out brake and ride better than the Escalade and get better gas mileage.  

It is funny that Cadillac fans are quick to point out the weight saving measures and chassis work of the ATS and CT6, but don't demand the same level of engineering from the crossovers and SUVs that actually make up the bulk of Cadillac sales.

[balthazar]

58 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Benz hasn't fallen at all they have been the luxury sales leader after dispatching Lexus and BMW atop the sales charts...

 

[Drew Dowdell]

Wait a minute.... the arm rest on the Tahoe and Escalade are almost the same @smk4565???  Next you'll be telling me that both steering wheels are round!! zomg!

[balthazar]

Here's what smk sees.

Get's "Silverado feel" from Escalade interior :

 

Thinks GLS interior ($67K) is unique, modern and doesn't AT ALL "feel" like a $32K GLA interior :
 

Edited March 21, 2017 by balthazar

[smk4565]

Luckily that GLE and GLS interior get scrapped in about a year for an S-class style look.  The GLE and GLS are the 2 oldest cars in the product line (aside from the G-wagen).  And they still sell well, it isn't like they are struggling.  But they'll fix the interior, new platform and engines, they should be well ahead of the competition, which is basically BMW x5 (soon to be X7) and the the Escalade, they dominate the rest.

[balthazar]

Not very lucky for those shopping today tho, is it??

It's 2017, and MB is putting a $30K interior into a $70K flagship SUV like it's 1990. We've heard it over & over & over: 'Mercedes is going to fix their SUVs in the next generation', yet they're still cutting corners like mad. Look at the CLA front fascia; cut & pasted onto the S'coupe. SO cheap, so lazy… but it they can sell a few hundred more that way, why not?

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Not very lucky for those shopping today tho, is it??

It's 2017, and MB is putting a $30K interior into a $70K flagship SUV like it's 1990. We've heard it over & over & over: 'Mercedes is going to fix their SUVs in the next generation', yet they're still cutting corners like mad. Look at the CLA front fascia; cut & pasted onto the S'coupe. SO cheap, so lazy… but it they can sell a few hundred more that way, why not?

Huge difference between a GLA and a GLC even when you sit in them, even more so when you sit in a GLS.  

I don't think they have an interior problem vs the competition, I just don't think the GLE and GLS are as nice as the E-class.   Can't get this in a GLA, and I think they are competitive with any other SUV out there, even the Range Rover.

[Cmicasa the Great]

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Benz hasn't fallen at all they have been the luxury leader after dispatching Lexus and BMW atop the sales charts despite charging more for a similar model.  Lexus IS about to dump the GS altogether since the E-class dominates the segment so much.  I'd still take a GLS interior over the Escalade, the GLS interior is dated, but well made, the Escalade interior is more modern but with a lot of plastic and Silverado feel.  And the GLS will out accelerate, out handle, out brake and ride better than the Escalade and get better gas mileage.  

It is funny that Cadillac fans are quick to point out the weight saving measures and chassis work of the ATS and CT6, but don't demand the same level of engineering from the crossovers and SUVs that actually make up the bulk of Cadillac sales.

Dude.. I keep saying SALES don't equal luxury.. especially when that so called luxury builds cars that are on par with.. no.. less than a Chevy Cruze. As to weight.. the XT5 is lighter than the RX, the Q5, the GLC and the GLK.

And wait. I am one who thinks that U have not been in an Escalade lately.. specifically the Platinum. The interior is not as plasticky as U make it. 

BTW. I love how U come up with this idea that the '17 GLS is so swift versus the Escalade... when, as I pointed out about a month ago..  all Benz did was get beat by the MIGHTY Escalade enough times that they put a more aggressive 9speed in the BITCHO Benz so it could literally eeeeeek out a win in the acceleration test by a mere 10th of a second in the 1/4 and 0-60 both

[smk4565]

6 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Dude.. I keep saying SALES don't equal luxury.. especially when that so called luxury builds cars that are on par with.. no.. less than a Chevy Cruze. As to weight.. the XT5 is lighter than the RX, the Q5, the GLC and the GLK.

And wait. I am one who thinks that U have not been in an Escalade lately.. specifically the Platinum. The interior is not as plasticky as U make it. 

BTW. I love how U come up with this idea that the '17 GLS is so swift versus the Escalade... when, as I pointed out about a month ago..  all Benz did was get beat by the MIGHTY Escalade enough times that they put a more aggressive 9speed in the BITCHO Benz so it could literally eeeeeek out a win in the acceleration test by a mere 10th of a second in the 1/4 and 0-60 both

The sales volume of Mercedes shows people want their product, they are priced above their competitors and outselling them, so people are willing to pay a premium for the product even.

Base GLC weighs 3,891 lbs a GLC43 (V6, awd) weighs 4,145 lbs.

Base XT5 weighs 3,985 lbs, a Premium AWD weighs 4,310 lbs.  So it is heavier, not lighter.

GLS got the 9-speed because all Mercedes will have it, when cars get it just depends on where they are in the update cycle, in another year the whole line should have it as either new models or mid-cycle refreshes are done.  They already made a GLS that does 0-60 in 4.3 seconds, I don't think they worry about the performance of an Escalade or Navigator or LX570 at all.  

[Cmicasa the Great]

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The sales volume of Mercedes shows people want their product, they are priced above their competitors and outselling them, so people are willing to pay a premium for the product even.

Base GLC weighs 3,891 lbs a GLC43 (V6, awd) weighs 4,145 lbs.

Base XT5 weighs 3,985 lbs, a Premium AWD weighs 4,310 lbs.  So it is heavier, not lighter.

GLS got the 9-speed because all Mercedes will have it, when cars get it just depends on where they are in the update cycle, in another year the whole line should have it as either new models or mid-cycle refreshes are done.  They already made a GLS that does 0-60 in 4.3 seconds, I don't think they worry about the performance of an Escalade or Navigator or LX570 at all.  

Sales volumes of Mercedes is also aided by the fact that they will LEASE U a '17 EClass for the same price I pay for Friday and Saturday night Happy Hour. Literally. A $500 Lease on a car that just came out. They should sell every one that they make. The CLA and C are only $299 and 350. 

 

[smk4565]

9 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Sales volumes of Mercedes is also aided by the fact that they will LEASE U a '17 EClass for the same price I pay for Friday and Saturday night Happy Hour. Literally. A $500 Lease on a car that just came out. They should sell every one that they make. The CLA and C are only $299 and 350. 

 

2017 E300 lease is $549 a month with $5,043 due at signing.

2017 CTS lease is $449 a month with $4,309 due at signing.

$100 a month less and $700 less down, and Cadillac still can't sell cars (they can sell trucks).  

Found this in Detroit news from December 2016.  "GM at the end of November, it had a 168-day supply of the LaCrosse; 177 days of the Camaro; 170 days of the Corvette and Chevrolet Spark; 121 days for the Cruze; 119 days for the ATS; 132 days for the CTS; and 110 days for the CT6, according to Autodata."

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

2017 E300 lease is $549 a month with $5,043 due at signing.

2017 CTS lease is $449 a month with $4,309 due at signing.

$100 a month less and $700 less down, and Cadillac still can't sell cars (they can sell trucks).  

Found this in Detroit news from December 2016.  "GM at the end of November, it had a 168-day supply of the LaCrosse; 177 days of the Camaro; 170 days of the Corvette and Chevrolet Spark; 121 days for the Cruze; 119 days for the ATS; 132 days for the CTS; and 110 days for the CT6, according to Autodata."

Production needs top be managed more. Easy enough considering its only March. And why wouldn't the CTS lease be less since the CTS costs less? Not to mention it is 3 years older. LOL..  Nothing negates the fact that the CTS is still better.

[smk4565]

CTS is better and cheaper and gets outsold 4 to 1.  So how does Cadillac stay competitive in the setment?  Should they just get out of it like Lexus is doing?  We know Cadillac has to cut sedans, and bad news for performance fans is the XTS is Cadillac's best selling car and probably cheapest to make given the platform share with Lacrisee and Impala.  ATS and CTS are probably highest in danger of getting the axe unless Lacrosse/Impala/ XTS all die together.

[Drew Dowdell]

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

CTS is better and cheaper and gets outsold 4 to 1.  So how does Cadillac stay competitive in the setment?  Should they just get out of it like Lexus is doing?  We know Cadillac has to cut sedans, and bad news for performance fans is the XTS is Cadillac's best selling car and probably cheapest to make given the platform share with Lacrisee and Impala.  ATS and CTS are probably highest in danger of getting the axe unless Lacrosse/Impala/ XTS all die together.

That version of Epsilon's time is ending. The XTS is done after 2020. I'd expect one more Impala refresh, and then it will move off Epsilon after that if it continues.  Once the current crop of vehicles is done, I expect that there will be a shuffling of platforms. Where those cars land is anyone's guess at this point.

[Cmicasa the Great]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

CTS is better and cheaper and gets outsold 4 to 1.  So how does Cadillac stay competitive in the setment?  Should they just get out of it like Lexus is doing?  We know Cadillac has to cut sedans, and bad news for performance fans is the XTS is Cadillac's best selling car and probably cheapest to make given the platform share with Lacrisee and Impala.  ATS and CTS are probably highest in danger of getting the axe unless Lacrosse/Impala/ XTS all die together.

This one is done to death.. but I will do it anyway. 

Camry outsells quite a few sedans but no one is out there arguing that its better than a Malibu, Maz6, Fusion, or Accord. The E-Class is the Camry of Luxury sedans. Fuckin Taxicab. 

XTS is Cadillac's best selling car because its the cheapest large luxo sedan they make. Globally the ATS outsells it. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That version of Epsilon's time is ending. The XTS is done after 2020. I'd expect one more Impala refresh, and then it will move off Epsilon after that if it continues.  Once the current crop of vehicles is done, I expect that there will be a shuffling of platforms. Where those cars land is anyone's guess at this point.

I dunno. GM has gone on record with Barra saying two years ago that she wants GM to drop down to about 4 scalable platforms only.. that would handle cars, CUVs, and trucks/Suvs

General Motors

GMT 31XX Platform figure will be merged with the T1XX when the K2XX are retired
GM Alpha Vehicle Platform I figure will be merged with Omega.. as it is scalable.
GM C1XX Vehicle Platform  which is a variant of E2XX already. 
GM D2XX Vehicle Platform Could definetly see it being merged with C1XX and G2XX
GM E2XX/P2XX Vehicle Platform Pretty much done after this gen of Malibu. P2XX is already picking up slack with new Lacrosse

GM K2XX Becomes T1XX

GM Omega Vehicle Platform See the Alpha

GM T1XX Vehicle Platform

#######################

GM P2XX Vehicle Platform Taking over for FWD and basically a larger E2XX
 

GM Y Vehicle Platform (GM Y Body)

GM G2XX Vehicle Platform
GM K2XX Vehicle Platform Being replaced with T1XX


 

[Robert Hall]

Hmm...do you have a link to what all the blahblahXX platforms are (what vehicles use them)?  I recognize Alpha, Omega, and Y-body (Corvette), but the others seem like a random letter followed by a number then XX.   I remember Delta, Delta II, Theta, Epsilon, Epsilon II but not this other platform jargon....

Edited March 21, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar