Challenger Production Not Definite Yet

[Variance]

Challenger Production Not Definite Yet

It should be noted Edmunds stole my title idea. Bastards.

Anyway, Chevy's not the only one who's holding off on a firm decision on making a popular concept a production reality. DCX has stated that contrary to rumors of the opposite, Dodge has not taken a stand on reviving the Challenger. They say they are still evaluating the business case and the car has not received the official green light.

Put your tongues back in your mouths for now, Mopar guys.

Read "Dodge Challenges Reports of Challenger Production" @ Edmunds

[Northstar]

I think they should start over and take the Camaro's approach. Make it smaller, sleeker, and lighter, and start with a modern shape and add retro cues, not the other way around.

Everyone says the Camaro won't sell well after a year or so, but the Challenger is even more retro, so wouldn't it sell even worse after a year or two?

[Intrepidation]

I wouldn't change a damn thing. There's plenty of people who are dying for one. If it's too retro for you, buy a Camaro.

[ichbinjohnk]

I wouldn't change a damn thing. There's plenty of people who are dying for one. If it's too retro for you, buy a Camaro.

Hehe...gladly.

[bowtie_dude]

I'm so sick of retro crap, hopefully this won't come to market in its retro form, and will arrive with more modern styling cues.

[Guest Josh]

Just corporate talk. It's coming.

[BrewSwillis]

I think they should start over and take the Camaro's approach. Make it smaller, sleeker, and lighter, and start with a modern shape and add retro cues, not the other way around.

Everyone says the Camaro won't sell well after a year or so, but the Challenger is even more retro, so wouldn't it sell even worse after a year or two?

So you are saying to scrap the idea of building it on a current platform, and create a brand new platform that doesn't exist yet.....and that will somehow make the business case to build the car??

[Northstar]

So you are saying to scrap the idea of building it on a current platform, and create a brand new platform that doesn't exist yet.....and that will somehow make the business case to build the car??

No. There's no reason why it can't be smaller and have more modern proportions. Zeta will have sedans as big as the 300 and Charger (and bigger even), so why can't the LX platform provide a basis for the Challenger that is a similar size to the Camaro? It's 198 inches long and looks like it. It needs to be about 8 or 9 inches shorter (GTO sized) and not be such a remake of the original.

The formula should be/should have been:

Design a sleek modern car without a lot of finished details, basically a blank canvas to apply styling cues to, then, add classic Challenger cues where they work on this new car and get a vehicle that has all the cool retro cues that everyone loves about the Challenger but delievers it in a cool modern shape that so many people complain about the Challenger for. This is basically the formula the Camaro has, and there are far fewer complaints about it.

I have no problem with most of the styling of the Challenger. What I have a problem with is that it looks huge and the proportions are from the 70s. If it was smaller with modern proportions but still had the same styling cues I would probably like it. Someone should chop a Camaro with the Challenger styling to see how much better it would look than the real Challenger.

[Dragon]

all this "corporate talk" is gonna delay production a year. as far as Brampton assembly (most likely assembly plant) knows, nothing is happening as of yet

[ehaase]

I have no problem with the Challenger's size. The sales goal is only going to be around 20,000 to 30,000 per year, and it would be a waste of DC's money to downsize the LX (or LY) platform for a low volume smaller coupe. (And I don't think I am the only one skeptical about 100,000 Camaro sales per year.) Besides I miss the big powerful coupes of the 1960's and 1970's.

[Sixty8panther]

Just corporate talk. It's coming.

Agreed, I'd expected to be tweeked a bit here and there

unlike the Camaro which will probably be Solstice-close

to concept when it reaches showrooms.

I just hope to god it stays a hardtop. Please, Mopar!

[Newbiewar]

I think they should start over and take the Camaro's approach. Make it smaller, sleeker, and lighter, and start with a modern shape and add retro cues, not the other way around.

Everyone says the Camaro won't sell well after a year or so, but the Challenger is even more retro, so wouldn't it sell even worse after a year or two?

dont forget... the camaro is designed to be 100+k units a year

the challenger... 6k a year

[Newbiewar]

I have no problem with the Challenger's size.  The sales goal is only going to be around 20,000 to 30,000 per year, and it would be a waste of DC's money to downsize the LX (or LY) platform for a low volume smaller coupe. (And I don't think I am the only one skeptical about 100,000 Camaro sales per year.)  Besides I miss the big powerful coupes of the 1960's and 1970's.

remember the challenger isnt even supposed to hit that many... the production at that plant is already over 120% if i remember correctly...

and all challengers, if produced would be equipt with v8's and 6 speeds...

its not designed to be a volume car like the camaro is...

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Hey, if 100,000 units fails for Camaro, just design a different front/rear end clip and select interior pieces (and wheels/other exterior pieces), and voila, you could have a new Pontiac Firebird taking up the rest of the slack! (And don't give me the whole cloning/brand-image-non-fitting speech-we all know what's happened in both areas).

[Dragon]

remember the challenger isnt even supposed to hit that many... the production at that plant is already over 120% if i remember correctly...

and all challengers, if produced would be equipt with v8's and 6 speeds...

its not designed to be a volume car like the camaro is...

I don't know percentages, but sales have started to cool off a little, so there is room for 20-30K Challengers

[X2222]

They absolutely need to produce it. It was just too terrific of a design to let go.

[04monteintimidator]

I think they should start over and take the Camaro's approach. Make it smaller, sleeker, and lighter, and start with a modern shape and add retro cues, not the other way around.

agreed... tho not necessarily smaller just... less of the same challenger we saw 36 years ago...

[NOS2006]

Only reason I want to see a new Challenger is to laugh at it at the next red light. In my 6 speed Camaro.

[jbartley]

i have no problem with the charger being large, i have a problem with it being ugly!

anyways, it makes for pretty scenery to pass in a a 6sp 350+hp Camaro.

[BrewSwillis]

i have no problem with the charger being large, i have a problem with it being ugly!

anyways, it makes for pretty scenery to pass in a a 6sp 350+hp Camaro.

How do you plan on passing a 6 speed 425 HP Challenger with a 350 HP Camaro???

[Northstar]

How do you plan on passing a 6 speed 425 HP Challenger with a 350 HP Camaro???  

Well the Camaro is going to have more than 350HP, but a 350HP Camaro won't beat the Challenger in a straight line unless it's a lot lighter than we think it's going to be. Any Camaro with 400+HP should smoke the Challenger though, unless DCX figures out how to give the Challenger liposuction.

[BatmanGTO]

Well the Camaro is going to have more than 350HP, but a 350HP Camaro won't beat the Challenger in a straight line unless it's a lot lighter than we think it's going to be. Any Camaro with 400+HP should smoke the Challenger though, unless DCX figures out how to give the Challenger liposuction.

yeah but then there is the talk of the SS and R/T versions of both respectively having approx: 5-600 horse for the top models. that is one competition i would love to be present for.

[Nick]

On a side note...recently at a Crystal Cove meet a guy on the forums I go to snapped pics of a Challenger which showed up...I'll try to find the pics if anyone is interested...

[Turbojett]

Uh...wouldn't this 425hp Challenger be the one with the 6.1L? If that's the case, then that would probably end up being the SRT-8 version, and even by that time It'll probably have even more than that on tap. The R/T would most likely have the 5.7L with 350hp. I assume the lineup is going to be just like the Charger/Magnum/300's minus their base 6-cyl. The 6.1 was just in the show car, folks. That doesn't necessarily mean it'll be the volume engine for the V8 models.

Anyway if that be the case, which I'm sure it will be, the Camaro crew has nothing to worry about.

[BrewSwillis]

Uh...wouldn't this 425hp Challenger be the one with the 6.1L? If that's the case, then that would probably end up being the SRT-8 version, and even by that time It'll probably have even more than that on tap. The R/T would most likely have the 5.7L with 350hp. I assume the lineup is going to be just like the Charger/Magnum/300's minus their base 6-cyl. The 6.1 was just in the show car, folks. That doesn't necessarily mean it'll be the volume engine for the V8 models.

Anyway if that be the case, which I'm sure it will be, the Camaro crew has nothing to worry about.

The concept car was the 6.L, and was called an R/T. The SRT-8 (or SRT-10 ) Challenger could be a version of the 392 ci HEMI crate engine that they showed at NAIAS, or a Viper engine for an SRT-10??

[Blu Angel]

They absolutely need to produce it. It was just too terrific of a design to let go.

DCX would be foolish NOT to bring this retro Challenger to market. I am a middle-aged Canadian who grew up adoring the muscles cars of the 60's and 70's. I currently drive an o4 Grand Prix GTP with Competion Group which I love. However, in 2 years this GP will be fully paid for and ready for my wife and kids to drive around.

The Challenger is my dream machine since I absolutely adore its retro Macho styling cues. I know it is a very polarizing styling exercise......you either love it or loathe it. I certainly believe that there is a viable market for 20,000 Challengers per year. I would probably opt for the 5.7 Hemi firstly, with the 6.1 as my second choice. However, it must be an automatic transmission for my tastes and driving needs. Since I drive 40,000 km per year, it most definitely needs to be an automatic shift.

Secondly, if this vehicle is NOT given the green light, I would not be a candidate for the upcoming Camaro or retro Mustang. Even though I admire the designs, I believe them to be too young for me.

My second choice would be the upcoming restyled and as of yet, unseen, 2008 CTS. It sounds like a great looking vehicle. Hopefully it will not be overpriced for my budget. If so, then I would hold out for the new 2008/2009 Pontiac GTO. I am assuming that the Challenger/GTO would be market competitors.....big motor, big power, a 2 door rocket.

[Dragon]

They absolutely need to produce it. It was just too terrific of a design to let go.

terrific design?

all they did was take a 30 year old design, add a coupel of new touches, modernize the materials and structure and put an existing engine in it. Any monkey with a CAD system could do it.

Edited May 29, 2006 by Dragon

[Bimmer325]

terrific design? 

all they did was take a 30 year old design, add a coupel of new touches, modernize the materials and structure and put an existing engine in it.  Any monkey with a CAD system could do it.

Thank you. DCX barely went far enough to give the Challenger modern proportions.

[balthazar]

The proportions are completely modern- they share a lot more with the modern Charger than the vintage Challenger. Don't like it? -go drive another Anonyma-Plastic GT; this one's not for you. Why waste your time degrading it?

And only a monkey on CAD could design such a sweet-looking car if they worked for a company with such sweet-looking heritage. That leaves out the bulk of the industry. Too bad for them

[Bimmer325]

The proportions are completely modern- they share a lot more with the modern Charger than the vintage Challenger. Don't like it? -go drive another Anonyma-Plastic GT; this one's not for you. Why waste your time degrading it?

And only a monkey on CAD could design such a sweet-looking car if they worked for a company with such sweet-looking heritage.

Honestly, the 1970 Challenger isn't the kind of "sweet-looking heritage" I'd be looking to emulate if I were Dodge.

The Challenger and Charger may share a somewhat similar design language, but the Charger's proportions are far more modern. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Challenger's awkward stance, frumpy roofline, and ridiculous proportions are all 1970. Dodge isn't doing us any favor by ressurecting them in a market that's now far more competitive. Yes, it's fun that Dodge produced a new car that looks like it's three decades old. But at the same time, it lacks an ounce of innovation and pales in comparison to what Chevy's done with the Camaro. Sure, people yearning to re-live the 70s will buy one. The real trouble will come two years into it's run when everyone who wanted one has already gotten theirs.

[Flybrian]

In all honesty, there are about a dozen or more Chrysler products I would have emulated before the Challenger.

[Camino LS6]

Honestly, the 1970 Challenger isn't the kind of "sweet-looking heritage" I'd be looking to emulate if I were Dodge. 

The Challenger and Charger may share a somewhat similar design language, but the Charger's proportions are far more modern.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Challenger's awkward stance, frumpy roofline, and ridiculous proportions are all 1970.  Dodge isn't doing us any favor by ressurecting them in a market that's now far more competitive.  Yes, it's fun that Dodge produced a new car that looks like it's three decades old.  But at the same time, it lacks an ounce of innovation and pales in comparison to what Chevy's done with the Camaro.  Sure, people yearning to re-live the 70s will buy one.  The real trouble will come two years into it's run when everyone who wanted one has already gotten theirs.

Sorry Bimmer, I'm with Balthazar on this one. The Challenger is gorgeous and will sell like hotcakes. The Charger, on the other hand, is a bloated,butt-ugly 300 with a bad roofline, too many doors, and the wrong name. They need to, and will, build the Challenger as close to concept as possible. Actually, I am so happy that the whole list of Muscle/Pony cars are here or soon will be (except Charger).

I like:

Mustang - it looks the way a Mustang should.

GTO- performs like a GTO should but has amazing build-quality. I love the current one and have High hopes for the next gen.

Camaro - words are not adequate, it promises to be the best ever.

Challenger- Timeless design and the power to back it up.

Now, the best part is that this is not the end. Can't wait to see what else Zeta/ZetaII has in store for us.

[Camino LS6]

In all honesty, there are about a dozen or more Chrysler products I would have emulated before the Challenger.

Like what,Fly?

If Plymouth weren't dead, it would have been the 'Cuda (and I would be even happier with it). Lacking that, and with DCX having already flubbed the Charger, what would you have liked to see? The musclecar selection is a bit limited now that Plymouth is gone.

[Flybrian]

Like what,Fly?

If Plymouth weren't dead, it would have been the 'Cuda (and I would be even happier with it). Lacking that, and with DCX having already flubbed the Charger, what would you have liked to see? The musclecar selection is a bit limited now that Plymouth is gone.

Some Imperials, a handful of concepts, highline Chryslers, the real 300 letter cars as well as taking some inspriation from Hudson and AMC (since Chrysler acquired them, I accept that they also acquired their histories).

The muscle car thing just isn't that big of a deal to me, especially the big flaunty ones. Give me something dressed down, more subtle. Or better yet, give me a damn nice sedan or coupe that isn't old when it debuts. This is the same reason I have far more enthusiasm for every Zeta except the Camaro. We knew what the Camaro would look like even before the concept rolled out. I have no idea what Buick's fullsizer or Pontiac's GTO replacement will look like, which adds to the anticipation and excitement.

[Camino LS6]

Some Imperials, a handful of concepts, highline Chryslers, the real 300 letter cars as well as taking some inspriation from Hudson and AMC (since Chrysler acquired them, I accept that they also acquired their histories).

The muscle car thing just isn't that big of a deal to me, especially the big flaunty ones. Give me something dressed down, more subtle. Or better yet, give me a damn nice sedan or coupe that isn't old when it debuts. This is the same reason I have far more enthusiasm for every Zeta except the Camaro. We knew what the Camaro would look like even before the concept rolled out. I have no idea what Buick's fullsizer or Pontiac's GTO replacement will look like, which adds to the anticipation and excitement.

OK, I see where you are coming from. I was restricting myself to the musclecar realm which was obviously their intent. They squandered the Charger name and couldn't use 'Cuda or Roadrunner, so I saw their options as limited. I never really cared for the big Chryslers of yore, they were huge even for their time. Hell, even their Musclecars were way bigger than the rest of the field. It's mostly an age issue I guess, to me the original 'Cudas and Challengers were the best looking bodystyle Chrysler ever did. I like others here and there, but these were the best.

[Dragon]

The proportions are completely modern- they share a lot more with the modern Charger than the vintage Challenger. Don't like it? -go drive another Anonyma-Plastic GT; this one's not for you. Why waste your time degrading it?

And only a monkey on CAD could design such a sweet-looking car if they worked for a company with such sweet-looking heritage. That leaves out the bulk of the industry. Too bad for them

It screams of designer/corporate laziness to me. I would much rather buy a car that showed creative thought went into the overall appearance than one where it just went into minor design details. That being said, I'm also for acknowledging a car's heritage with retro design cues.

I totally agree it will sell like hot cakes. Both to those who are trying to relive their youth (or the youth they wanted) and those who just love older cars.

[balthazar]

Dragon= I would much rather buy a car that showed creative thought went into the overall appearance than one where it just went into minor design details.

I'm not into stroking the ego of the designer or name-dropping. In other words, I don't care what went into the design or how "original" it is, I am primairily interested in good, engaging overall design with great attention to detail. If a NG Sebring is the alternative from this company in this segment instead of the Challenger, I'm taking my money elsewhere.

That being said, I'm also for acknowledging a car's heritage with retro design cues.

I agree here, tho this seems to be counter to your above statement.

I totally agree it will sell like hot cakes. Both to those who are trying to relive their youth (or the youth they wanted) and those who just love older cars.

Is that somehow less legitimate a sale than to those who would buy it for other reasons? Are people who buy 'modern' cars 'more right' for liking it because it's modern? Is "NEW!NEW!NEW!" supposed to actually mean something? When will "GREAT!GREAT!GREAT!" overtake "NEW!NEW!NEW!" ?

[Satty]

How about the 2009 Dodge Plymouth Baracuda? Sure the name would be confusing as hell, but it would work.

[Flybrian]

Reminds me of the Ford ThunderCougarFalconBird.

[Dragon]

I agree here, tho this seems to be counter to your above statement.

Not really. The key word in my statement was cues, like what they did with the new Stang and Camaro. I never said I was totally against anything retro. They both look like were designed and built in this day and age, but I can still see minor design cues throughout the car that acknowledge the history of the vehicle. If there is one going down to the street (well, the stang for now) and only get a quick glance, I’ll know what gen it is. If I saw one of these Challengers quickly, I won’t.

I totally agree it will sell like hot cakes.  Both to those who are trying to relive their youth (or the youth they wanted) and those who just love older cars.

Is that somehow less legitimate a sale than to those who would buy it for other reasons? Are people who buy 'modern' cars 'more right' for liking it because it's modern? Is "NEW!NEW!NEW!" supposed to actually mean something? When will "GREAT!GREAT!GREAT!" overtake "NEW!NEW!NEW!" ?

You’re reading too much into what I said, I was merely pointing out who I thought the target audience is. I do think the vehicles design might limit the target audience though, and therefore the possible sales of the vehicle.

I also wonder what they will do to follow up on this car. Will they kill it after this gen, or will they come out with a Camaro/Stang-esque modern with retro cues car or will they come out with another old Challenger, perhaps another copy of the Mitsu Sapporo?

[balthazar]

Maybe they'll 'pull a BMW" and not change it at all for 20+ years. ;P

It's just: First we had the loud & vocal protesting the Charger for not looking enough like a vintage car, now we have more voices (the same ones???) damning the Challenger for being too similiar to vintage. I am certain that a great number of both of these groups are not serious MoPar consumers.

[BrewSwillis]

Maybe they'll 'pull a BMW" and not change it at all for 20+ years. ;P

It's just: First we had the loud & vocal protesting the Charger for not looking enough like a vintage car, now we have more voices (the same ones???) damning the Challenger for being too similiar to vintage. I am certain that a great number of both of these groups are not serious MoPar consumers.

As was already stated by the Chrysler group a few years back (when the LX's came out); they prefer "love it or hate it" designs, to designs that try to cater to everybody......because people who love it, will purchase one even without incentives.....and people who hate it probably wouldn't have had any intention of purchasing one anyway. Why try and win over people who are not even potential customers?

[NOS2006]

Why try and win over people who are not even potential customers?

Good post until this question.. Think about that.

I like all the LXs, but the Challenger is God-awful..