Opel/Vauxhall News: PSA In Discussions With GM About Possibly Acquiring Opel

[Cmicasa the Great]

16 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I've had Cobalts and HHRs as rentals in the past, nothing remotely 'world class' about their interiors, even 10 years ago...cheap, hard nasty plastics.....they were cheap, disposable econoboxes for their day, nothing special.  Anyone who thought those were 'world class' must never have experienced much of the world.. (j/k)

10 Years ago, GM was operating in a manner that was almost Bankrupt-ish.. before they actually went.. Bankrupt. No offense.. but 10 years ago isn't now. I challenge anyone to put a GM interior up against any other interior, same segment, and say that the GM one isn't equal or better.

[hyperv6]

As for interiors. Well some are much better and as good as any and better than many.

But there are still some things that could be a little better.

In the case of Cadillac being better is not enough. To make an impression it needs to be a significant difference to  prove their point. If you want to be the standard you need to set the standard high. I expect changes with the coming product to address this.

[Cmicasa the Great]

8 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

As for interiors. Well some are much better and as good as any and better than many.

But there are still some things that could be a little better.

In the case of Cadillac being better is not enough. To make an impression it needs to be a significant difference to  prove their point. If you want to be the standard you need to set the standard high. I expect changes with the coming product to address this.

I agree... but I think the biggest issue with any Cadillac interior is consistency. The CT6 is the best example. The Interior.. while certainly an 8.. could have been a 10.. if they had of been consistent with the original show car or at the very least.. the current CTS. Ironically.. the less expensive and smaller CTS has a better overall interior than the CT6. Kinda like the BMW 6Series being a more upscale place, IMO, than the 7Series before the new one bowed. Problem is that the CT6 was the newest, and the CTS was 2 years old when it arrived. I am happy to report, according to GM Authority, that the 2018 CT6 does get interior upgrades.. including the door panels being material (like the CTS) versus hard plastic and in the Platinum.. getting the.. well read below:

Quote

The exterior changes are rounded out by the addition of a high-pressure washer to the rear-facing camera lens that provides the video feed for the CT6’s Rear Camera Mirror.

Inside, the 2018 CT6 adds auto-ventilated front seat functionality as well as an automatic heated steering wheel, which now operate after the vehicle has been turned on. In addition, the range-topping CT6 Platinum trim level gets a leather-wrapped driver-side airbag cover, and the illuminated trunk sill plate is now installed at the factory, rather than an LPO-level item installed by the dealer.

Arguably the biggest updates to the 2018 CT6 come in the form of in-vehicle technology. Specifically, the 2018 CT6 sees its CUE infotainment system updated to version 2.6, thereby enabling two new features:

Collection: essentially an app store for the CUE infotainment system, CUE Collection enables users to easily browse, select and install apps that enhance the driving experience. Using the vehicle’s touch screen, users can customize their content with music, audiobooks, weather and more (data plan rates may apply). CUE Collection is only available with the CUE system with navigation (IO6).

Teen Driver: a configurable feature that lets you activate customizable vehicle settings associated with a key fob to encourage safe driving behavior. The Teen Driver feature can limit certain vehicle features, and prevents certain safety systems from being turned off. An in-vehicle report gives you information on your teen’s driving habits and helps parents continue to coach their new driver.

In addition, GM’s Full-Speed Adaptive Cruise Control can now be switched to Regular Cruise Control by the driver and Automatic Park Assist adds pedal operation, meaning that the 2018 CT6 can fully park itself without the intervention of the driver.

 

[Drew Dowdell]

well, I still think this whole thing is an attempt to scare the German unions and government. 

Also... how sad is it that Mary may have found a buyer for Opel, but Serg couldn't find a buyer for all of FCA?

[hyperv6]

42 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

well, I still think this whole thing is an attempt to scare the German unions and government. 

Also... how sad is it that Mary may have found a buyer for Opel, but Serg couldn't find a buyer for all of FCA?

My original impression was not to scare them but to work around them.

Give PSA the control as a Euro company to make deals with Germany and make new deals with the Unions and then sell it back at a higher price to GM with lower operating cost.

The profits would be payment to PSA for their work.

Lets face it the Euro Union and labor would be more responsive to a French owned company in the Union vs. an American owned company outside the Union.

[Robert Hall]

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

10 Years ago, GM was operating in a manner that was almost Bankrupt-ish.. before they actually went.. Bankrupt. No offense.. but 10 years ago isn't now. I challenge anyone to put a GM interior up against any other interior, same segment, and say that the GM one isn't equal or better.

If you bothered to read my post, it was obvious I wasn't talking about today's GM interiors...I was responding to hyperv6's original comment about the Cobalt and HHR being 'world class'... (he later qualified that and said he meant only the suspension tuning, his original post implied the whole product was 'world class').

GM does have some excellent interiors today, no argument about that. 

Edited February 20, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Cmicasa the Great]

6 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

If you read my post, it is obvious I wasn't talking about today's GM interiors...I was responding to hyperv6's comment about the Cobalt and HHR being 'world class'... 

Cubical.. please don't take offense.. or think that I was being facetious.. I just.. saw no reason for your comment regarding INTERIORS when it was obvious that HYPER was talking about suspensions.. performance. Furthermore.. I can't be the only one who has become tired with people always referencing the past when it comes to GM. Its almost like clock-work. As many a shitty car that Toyota has had over the years.. VW has produced.. BMW and Benz have created.. RECENTLY.. people still reference a GM folly going back 10.. hell 40 years. I literally got into a convo with a clown about the Cimmaron the other day.. and how that soured his taste on Cadillac. He cited them for making a small car that wasn't on level with the rest of the line up-up in 1983. 1983!!! My GF was born in 1983. She's 34 years old. Not once did he recognize that Mercedes Benz has been building a "Cimmaron" for the last 4 years. In the modern age.

Anyway. Take a look at the Cruze, from last gen or this. A Malibu and Impala. Take a look at the Cadillacs.. the Vette. From top to bottom GM is putting out WORLD CLASS interior s these days. The only place I see inconsistency tho.. ironically.. and shamefully.. I guess.. is when GM decides to go head to head with vehicles costing $10Ks more. Yes.. the interior of the Corvette is not as refined as a Ferrari.. but alas.. the price.. and the performance. The CT6 is not as refined as the S-Class inside.. but again.. Of course the mags will point this out yet never take into consideration the reality of why GM maaaay have tried to "hold back here.. to offer a lil more there".

As I said before.. in interiors, I truly believe the CT6 with the new upgrades, in particular the Platinum.. the only model I'd buy unless a VSeries appears.. is fully capable, at that point, of being an S-Class beater.. as the interior reeeeeeeeally is.. was.. the one place where the S550 had an edge.  

[Robert Hall]

As I stated, his original post implied the whole product was 'world class'.. wasn't obvious his comment was limited to suspension.  And GM has a history of cheap interiors---look at the C6 Corvettes or 5th gen Camaro...very recent history, not 20-30 years ago. The C7 and 6th gen Camaro are better, but still a bit too Fisher-Price to be considered 'world class'.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Robert Hall]

Anyway, back to the original thread, I wonder what PSA's angle is in this...access to more manufacturing capacity and more product development resources than they have currently? 

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

well, I still think this whole thing is an attempt to scare the German unions and government. 

Also... how sad is it that Mary may have found a buyer for Opel, but Serg couldn't find a buyer for all of FCA?

We'll see. I think Barra and Ammann truly see the Opel brand as a liability and drag on profits at this point, if they hadn't already. Again if they are somehow able to leverage GM Korea and GMNA vehicles better quality and convince the European people to buy their Chevy/Buick/Cadillac line-up.. then honestly it would be a win. Who knows tho? It is a gamble either way

[Robert Hall]

I just couldn't see GM giving up on their long-established European market brands.  

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, Cmicasa the Great said:

We'll see. I think Barra and Ammann truly see the Opel brand as a liability and drag on profits at this point, if they hadn't already. Again if they are somehow able to leverage GM Korea and GMNA vehicles better quality and convince the European people to buy their Chevy/Buick/Cadillac line-up.. then honestly it would be a win. Who knows tho? It is a gamble either way

Well there is also talk of Holden as a brand going away too... so if this is the current course, I wouldn't be surprised to see GM shed 3 brands (Opel, Vauxhall, Holden) and then just do 2 or 3 brands in all markets except US which also gets GMC.  China could support Chevy/Buick/Cadillac, Australia and Middle East could support Chevy and Cadillac. Buick could even make a return to Europe for select models like Verano, Encore, and Regal.

[G. David Felt]

30 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Anyway, back to the original thread, I wonder what PSA's angle is in this...access to more manufacturing capacity and more product development resources than they have currently? 

As Drew and others have stated, there is huge over capacity in Europe and the Unions are killing business, profits and the ability to change to more efficient modern ways. I happen to also be one that believes Mary is a very smart cookie. Partner with PSA, let them head the attack on down sizing, expenses, etc. Get it back down to a level PSA and GM are wanting, then sell back their share at a profit to GM.

Consolidation is the future as way too many players in a limited growth market.

Be interesting to see who survives the next 3-5 years.

[hyperv6]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Well there is also talk of Holden as a brand going away too... so if this is the current course, I wouldn't be surprised to see GM shed 3 brands (Opel, Vauxhall, Holden) and then just do 2 or 3 brands in all markets except US which also gets GMC.  China could support Chevy/Buick/Cadillac, Australia and Middle East could support Chevy and Cadillac. Buick could even make a return to Europe for select models like Verano, Encore, and Regal.

Ideally it would be great if GM could kill the Holden name and Opel name and just make everything one name but at this point I do not see it happening soon. Holden is just now getting over not building a car and I think to eliminate the name so soon would be too much a blow for the nationalistic customers.

Now in the future as the product becomes more global accept for the grill I can see the change being done. Why make 6 grills when one would do.

As for Opel and giving up on a long time operation in Europe. Well it is like a finger that has poor circulation and gangrene. You may have had that finger for 80 years but it is easy to give up if it is doing damage to the body and is not easily cured. 

Like they say it is better to lose a Finger and save a Hand.

Market and Government  offer no simple fast or easy fixes to Opel.

 

[G. David Felt]

I would like to see GM move to a Global set brand, what that end name plate would be, who knows, but it would be nice to see something like Chevy / Cadillac world wide. 

[Robert Hall]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

I would like to see GM move to a Global set brand, what that end name plate would be, who knows, but it would be nice to see something like Chevy / Cadillac world wide. 

Chevrolet would be the global brand...just don't know if Europe/UK/Aus would accept it they way they had the familiar Opel/Vauxhall/Holden for decades.   Cadillac would be the global premium brand, and Buick and GMC regional fillers.

[Cmicasa the Great]

6 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Well there is also talk of Holden as a brand going away too... so if this is the current course, I wouldn't be surprised to see GM shed 3 brands (Opel, Vauxhall, Holden) and then just do 2 or 3 brands in all markets except US which also gets GMC.  China could support Chevy/Buick/Cadillac, Australia and Middle East could support Chevy and Cadillac. Buick could even make a return to Europe for select models like Verano, Encore, and Regal.

And I say WHY NOT??? Cadillac's biggest issue in the WORLD.. not including Europe which really isn't a money maker for most outside manufactures.. is that it simply isn't present. U.S. and China.. Cadillac is doing well considering its market saturation (models avail).. Buick is doing absolutely awesome in China and quite well here as well.. Chevy is doing great in US and China.. other regions seems to embrace all three. Cadillac products have been for the most part selling themselves. Their sales lag has to do with re-positioning, repricing, weak marketing, and first and foremost.. less product specifically in the CUV classes. I see, since Holden really isn't about manufacturing anymore.. at least not in Oz.. for any manufacturer.. Holden's name be retained for Engine development. I mean there is no real manufacturing of Holden products at this point.. so what are U really gonna sell and to whom? Holden would be the one place where regional name should be retained.. just offer them straight rebadged Chevys.. including the Vette and Camaro

[hyperv6]

I saw the said GM stock could increase 35% selling Opel. That is telling of the drain. 

So if GM is doing this well losing money imagine the long term effects of no losses. 

As for Europe GM could work on a plan for Chevy but they don't need it next week. 

If they can find a way in and grow it it would add to the profits but the do not need Europe to survive.