Jeep News: Next Jeep Grand Cherokee To Use Alfa Romeo Bits

[William Maley]

The current Jeep Grand Cherokee that we love here at Cheers & Gears uses the bones of the Mercedes-Benz ML-Class (now GLE-Class) that was developed during the DiamlerChrysler era. But with a new owner in the form of Fiat, it would make sense that next Grand Cherokee would use a platform from them. But which one? Fiat Chrysler Automobiles' CEO Sergio Marchionne said it would likely be an Alfa Romeo one.

“The most natural application of a further evolution of the Alfa Romeo platform is the Grand Cherokee,” Marchionne told Autocar during the Detroit Auto Show.

“We’re finishing off the study now, but I’m going on the basis of the latest information, which is that it will be the basis upon which the Grand Cherokee will be developed, unless something happens in the next 60 days that suggests it isn’t doable. That would really complete the story of architectural development for us because I think it would certainly nail in a big piece of the Jeep story.”

This likely means the Grand Cherokee will be based on the Giorgio that underpins the Giulia and upcoming Stelvio crossover. Autocar says the next-generation Grand Cherokee will come out in either 2018 or 2019. We think that isn't likely and would put 2020 as the earliest date.

Source: Autocar
Pic Credit: William Maley for Cheers & Gears

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[Stew]

IMHO, this is a good thing.  It is still RWD based and the current GC is unibody/fully independent suspension anyway.  It also should come with some serious weight savings.  I wonder if it ma get a little tidier in dimensions too since the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer are now confirmed. 

[ccap41]

Hellllllllo Reliability!!

[G. David Felt]

 This should be an interesting mess. To quote CCAP41, " Hello Reliability!" 

Guess they have to figure out some way to justify the billions stolen for a platform that has not even sold what 100 cars here yet in the US?

Sergio = 

[Stew]

I have not seen any reports of bad reliability with this platform?

[FordCosworth]

So the only non Italian Jeep will be the Wrangler? 

 

 

[hyperv6]

Will they be putting a big Vagina Grill on the Wrangler.

Seriously, I am not sure this is a smart move as I have more faith in Chrysler engineering than Alfa/Fiat engineering. Do not disagree unless you have actually turned a wrench on a Alfa or Fiat.

Edited January 11, 2017 by hyperv6

[Stew]

13 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

Will they be putting a big Vagina Grill on the Wrangler.

Seriously, I am not sure this is a smart move as I have more faith in Chrysler engineering than Alfa/Fiat engineering. Do not disagree unless you have actually turned a wrench on a Alfa or Fiat.

Um, the Wrangler is staying on a version of it's BOF platform that will form the basis of the pickup as well. 

18 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

So the only non Italian Jeep will be the Wrangler? 

 

 

Considering the Wrangler and Wrangler truck are running BOF platforms as will the Wagoneer and grand Wagoneer, not to mention this platform was actually co developed to be used in Alfas and Dodges and you have no point......  as usual.  Hell, they can't win for losing.  people bitch about old platforms and when they come out with a new one people find stupid and babified $h! to bitch about still.  Give it a rest. 

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, Stew said:

I have not seen any reports of bad reliability with this platform?

I have not seen a good report of reliability coming from Italy.

[Stew]

Just now, ccap41 said:

I have not seen a good report of reliability coming from Italy.

This is a brand new platform though, no reason to naysay it until it has had a chance.  Also, besides the 9 speed, which has nothing to do with the Italian platform, I haven't seen any particular issues with reliability in the Renegade, Cherokee, or even 200.  heck, at this point and actually 16 models, the 9 speed issues are no more. 

[ccap41]

Those aren't Italian.. well the Renegade is. But get on some other public forums/groups where somebody owns one.. I'm a part of a facebook group where two people have Fiat 500L's and they're big-ole-pieces-of-shet. They always have issues. One got rid of his for a Beetle, actually.

[FordCosworth]

34 minutes ago, Stew said:

Um, the Wrangler is staying on a version of it's BOF platform that will form the basis of the pickup as well. 

Considering the Wrangler and Wrangler truck are running BOF platforms as will the Wagoneer and grand Wagoneer, not to mention this platform was actually co developed to be used in Alfas and Dodges and you have no point......  as usual.  Hell, they can't win for losing.  people bitch about old platforms and when they come out with a new one people find stupid and babified $h! to bitch about still.  Give it a rest. 

A) Um.. ya. I know the Wrangler is staying on its platform . Hence me saying it'll be the ONLY non Italian Jeep.

B) Who knows if there will ever be Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer. Supposedly the project is back on...again. With their piss poor finances, delays, cancellations...the 5yrs plan might as well be the 5min plan. 

C) Co developed for Dodge and Alfa???. Until now, not once was there ever a mention about a Jeep based off of the Giorgio. Seeing that pipe dream of 300k Alfa being truly unreachable, FCA need atomization of the costs of this pricey platform beyond what Dodge ( which was delayed until AT LEAST 2020 ) can ever succeed in. 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by FordCosworth

[Stew]

5 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

A) Um.. ya. I know the Wrangler is staying on its platform . Hence me saying it'll be the ONLY non Italian Jeep.

B) Who knows if there will ever be Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer. Supposedly the project is back on...again. With their piss poor finances, delays, cancellations...the 5yrs plan might as well be the 5min plan. 

C) Co developed for Dodge and Alfa???. Until now, not once was there ever a mention about a Jeep based off of the Giorgio. Seeing that pipe dream of 300k Alfa being truly unreachable, FCA need atomization of the costs of this pricey platform beyond what Dodge ( which was delayed until AT LEAST 2020 ) can ever succeed in. 

 

 

A.  And the Jeep Truck

 

B.  It was confirmed Sunday including the fact it is body on frame and even which factory will build it.   Pay attention.

C.  Using these platforms across many vehicles is perfectly fine.  All previous GCs have been unibody and still had amazing off-road prowess so i am not at all seeing our point.  Also they are putting their investments first into what is selling and what is popular and then to the less popular and less popular cars.  it makes complete sense from a business standpoint and FCA is above all, a business. 

30 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Those aren't Italian.. well the Renegade is. But get on some other public forums/groups where somebody owns one.. I'm a part of a facebook group where two people have Fiat 500L's and they're big-ole-pieces-of-shet. They always have issues. One got rid of his for a Beetle, actually.

500Ls are POSs and should be killed.  They also look like they were designed when someone looked at a pile dog crap on the ground and thought hey, that is a nice design.  .  I am pretty sure that platform is different than what underpins the rest. 

[FordCosworth]

 " It was confirmed Sunday including the fact it is body on frame and even which factory will build it.   Pay attention. "

FCA pattern of talking before walking has me paying attention. So until I see Test Mules of the supposed Wagoneers, its all talk. Their actions are what speaks. 

" Also they are putting their investments first into what is selling and what is popular and then to the less popular and less popular cars.  it makes complete sense from a business standpoint and FCA is above all, a business "

It that was the case, RAM would not be pushed back. The upcoming 1500 is only a refresh and now the 2018 HD's heavily updated trucks have been delayed.

 

 

[Stew]

14 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

 " It was confirmed Sunday including the fact it is body on frame and even which factory will build it.   Pay attention. "

FCA pattern of talking before walking has me paying attention. So until I see Test Mules of the supposed Wagoneers, its all talk. Their actions are what speaks. 

" Also they are putting their investments first into what is selling and what is popular and then to the less popular and less popular cars.  it makes complete sense from a business standpoint and FCA is above all, a business "

It that was the case, RAM would not be pushed back. The upcoming 1500 is only a refresh and now the 2018 HD's heavily updated trucks have been delayed.

 

 

Haven't exactly seen test mules of the Ranger or Bronco running around and they have roughly the same production schedule.  Sure you are totally fine with that.  As for the Ram, it is only the HDs and is pretty normal they be a year or 2 behind the LD trucks, ie 15 F-150 and 17 Superduty......   Again, you have no idea and I am sure you will vote my comments down since they don't agree with you, you child.  

[ccap41]

20 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

FCA pattern of talking before walking has me paying attention. So until I see Test Mules of the supposed Wagoneers, its all talk. Their actions are what speaks. 

I have to agree.. too much here-say to believe anything to the 'T' at this point.

4 minutes ago, Stew said:

Haven't exactly seen test mules of the Ranger or Bronco running around and they have roughly the same production schedule.  Sure you are totally fine with that.  As for the Ram, it is only the HDs and is pretty normal they be a year or 2 behind the LD trucks, ie 15 F-150 and 17 Superduty......   Again, you have no idea and I am sure you will vote my comments down since they don't agree with you, you child.  

Because there is a Ranger/Bronco vehicle already out there that they are utilizing for the 2019/2020 vehicles. So the test mules are likely either; not needing additional testing as they already have a Ranger or completely undisguised in other countries with different things under sheet metal(aluminum?).

It isn't that they are putting them out together it is the fact that they had to delay yet another product that is worrisome. I have no issue at all with them coming out together or the timeframe in which the current gen has been out for. It's that it was scheduled for a certain length and got pushed back like a few other products have been as well.

[Stew]

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I have to agree.. too much here-say to believe anything to the 'T' at this point.

Because there is a Ranger/Bronco vehicle already out there that they are utilizing for the 2019/2020 vehicles. So the test mules are likely either; not needing additional testing as they already have a Ranger or completely undisguised in other countries with different things under sheet metal(aluminum?).

It isn't that they are putting them out together it is the fact that they had to delay yet another product that is worrisome. I have no issue at all with them coming out together or the timeframe in which the current gen has been out for. It's that it was scheduled for a certain length and got pushed back like a few other products have been as well.

These' are the most concrete confirmations we have had, there is no reason to NOT believe them.  Everything else was from those old 5 year plans or simply heresay.  They are making these investments and starting the retooling processes very soon.  And on your  first part, there is an Alfa SUV and car already out there that the LX replacements and GC, if approved, would be on.  And the definitely coming ram will be the basis for the now  confirmed Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer. 

And delays happen in the auto industry all of the damned time. 

[ccap41]

They just so happen to FCA more than anybody else... What was the last GM or Ford vehicle delayed?

[FordCosworth]

35 minutes ago, Stew said:

Haven't exactly seen test mules of the Ranger or Bronco running around and they have roughly the same production schedule.  Sure you are totally fine with that.  As for the Ram, it is only the HDs and is pretty normal they be a year or 2 behind the LD trucks, ie 15 F-150 and 17 Superduty......   Again, you have no idea and I am sure you will vote my comments down since they don't agree with you, you child.  

I downvoted you for a couple reasons...

1)  As was pointed out by another - your debate skills 

2) Name calling.

 

[Stew]

2 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

I downvoted you for a couple reasons...

1)  As was pointed out by another - your debate skills 

2) Name calling.

 

Have you ever heard of an old saying?  the pot calling the kettle black.........  And come on, you have downvoted comments that were not even debating with anyone.  it has happened and others just because you don't like them or they disagree with you.  very childish (and that is not name calling BTW)

Edited January 11, 2017 by Stew

[Stew]

6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

They just so happen to FCA more than anybody else... What was the last GM or Ford vehicle delayed?

Focus RS

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a30138/ford-cancels-2016-focus-rs-prodution/

Raptor

http://www.itechpost.com/articles/62281/20161206/2017-ford-f-150-raptor-delivery-delayed-heres-why.htm

Superduty

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/10/13/ford-super-duty-launch-delay-report/

GM it is more delays of tech, IE Cadillacs Super Cruise was delayed

[FordCosworth]

14 minutes ago, Stew said:

Focus RS

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a30138/ford-cancels-2016-focus-rs-prodution/

Raptor

http://www.itechpost.com/articles/62281/20161206/2017-ford-f-150-raptor-delivery-delayed-heres-why.htm

Superduty

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/10/13/ford-super-duty-launch-delay-report/

GM it is more delays of tech, IE Cadillacs Super Cruise was delayed

Did you read the RS link? 

Raptor ( fault in production ) and SD ( parts issue ) delayed a month vs FCA products delayed for years/pushed back

[Stew]

2 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

Did you read the RS link? 

Raptor ( fault in production ) and SD ( parts issue ) delayed a month vs FCA products delayed for years/pushed back

LOL, he asked or examples of delayed vehicles and I gave them.  now you are just pandering because the results don't suity ou 100% again.  Delays are delays. 

[surreal1272]

About FCA, they do need to get it in gear and get the product train rolling already. They have not managed it very well where Dodge, Chrysler, and RAM are concerned but hopefully these lastest round of announcements will start bearing real fruit before it's too late. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by William Maley

[Stew]

47 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

About FCA, they do need to get it in gear and get the product train rolling already. They have not managed it very well where Dodge, Chrysler, and RAM are concerned but hopefully these lastest round of announcements will start bearing real fruit before it's too late. 

1

haha, ou have a point.  I have hope.  The announcement Sunday helped lol.  I am looking most forward to the Wrangler pickup.  they won't be able to keep those on the lots. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by William Maley

[ccap41]

Special editions? I mean I guess they are delays but it is after the F150 and Focus have been out. In FCA's case they would be delaying the Focus and the F150 from the beginning.

That Super duty article was delaying the launch of it but the product was completed and driven in a review. Not pushing back the whole Super Duty project a year or more.

[surreal1272]

1 minute ago, Stew said:

haha, ou have a point.  I have hope.  The announcement Sunday helped lol.  I am looking most forward to the Wrangler pickup.  they won't be able to keep those on the lots. 

No they won't. I still remember the old Scramblers from the 80s. They were unreliable piles but man, the owners loved them like it was their actual baby. Jeep has a prime opportunity to seize the off road pick up market with this.

[ccap41]

9 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

Did you read the RS link? 

Raptor ( fault in production ) and SD ( parts issue ) delayed a month vs FCA products delayed for years/pushed back

No offense to Stew but I don't think he read the articles but rather found the first Ford articles mentioning delay and went with them.

The RS and Raptor were also an issue like the SD in which the PRODUCT was completed not delayed. Yes, technically it was delayed but there is a huge difference in how/why those Fords were delayed and the FCA products were.

[Stew]

Nope, knew why they were delayed, but you only requested delays and these ARE delays. 

22 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

No they won't. I still remember the old Scramblers from the 80s. They were unreliable piles but man, the owners loved them like it was their actual baby. Jeep has a prime opportunity to seize the off road pick up market with this.

Should have been done when the JK came out. 

Oh, can't believe I forgot that a lot of GM products were delayed upt to years after the bailout or killed altogether, IE the ATS convertible. 

[hyperv6]

3 hours ago, Stew said:

Um, the Wrangler is staying on a version of it's BOF platform that will form the basis of the pickup as well. 

Considering the Wrangler and Wrangler truck are running BOF platforms as will the Wagoneer and grand Wagoneer, not to mention this platform was actually co developed to be used in Alfas and Dodges and you have no point......  as usual.  Hell, they can't win for losing.  people bitch about old platforms and when they come out with a new one people find stupid and babified $h! to bitch about still.  Give it a rest. 

Sorry I did not  think I had to explain my comment was only sarcasm comment.

Well Sergio now is thinking Trump would want GM to merge with FCA now. This guy really needs to put down the meth pipe. Sarcasm.

It is a telling comment as it shows he has no one wanting to partner with FCA at this point and may not find anyone that will be willing to partner. Not Sarcasm.

It is bad when even the Chinese are not stepping in just for Jeep and the Trucks. Not Sarcasm.

As for platforms I would not brag too much about being part Alfa. They have never really been know for durability, long term quality and reliability. Yes they have made some fun cars before they fell apart. Not Sarcasm.

Sergio should have just given Chrysler and Dodge Engineers the money and let them do it all. Or do you have an issue with this?  Not Sarcasm.

I hope you can now follow and not get confused as usual. Sarcasm.

Edited January 11, 2017 by hyperv6

[hyperv6]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

No they won't. I still remember the old Scramblers from the 80s. They were unreliable piles but man, the owners loved them like it was their actual baby. Jeep has a prime opportunity to seize the off road pick up market with this.

We had one customer who made a Scrambler into a Dually. It really was a neat ride and the fiberglass fenders he used on the bed really blended in nice. It looked factory. I loved that thing till it rusted out.

The prime problem with the Scrambler was the cargo room for the time was limited for the size and price. It was unpopular then but today would pose little problem with the mid size trucks today.

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, Stew said:

Nope, knew why they were delayed, but you only requested delays and these ARE delays.

Luckily the delays you showed us aren't a sign of a shet company/management of said company but rather production or supplier issues of a completed product. 30 days is acceptable... 1-2 years.. eehhh

[Stew]

Hyper V6, ou are incorrect on the FCA/GM merger.  In that interview he made it clear they are no longer looking for merger of any kind. 

 

Here is a transcript of the complete unedited interview.

http://www.allpar.com/news/2017/01/what-sergio-really-said-36076

CCap i have little doubt that if I had time to look i could find plenty of instances of such happening with other manufacturers.  Difference is that usually if they are delayed they end up getting cancelled (ie the 98 update of the Thunderbird where there were actual mules running around, including an SV version), but they killed it.  The Fox Mustang 87 Update was put on hold when they decided to make the FWD "Mustang" the Probe and instead did a heavy refresh on the Fox Mustang.  .  I am sure there are TONS more examples.  It happens dude, they are fixing it.  They are making Billion dollar investments retooling factories.  They are going to be bring in 2000 more jobs too.  I know that is just awful, right?   Quit trying to twist everything into a negative. 

Also, remember they learned a huge lesson from rushing the Dart to production and it blew up.  I would rather see delays and things done righ myself. 

[ccap41]

Yes, back in the 80's, 90's and early 00's there was shet management from them all and that's why everybody needed money to have their asses saved in 2007-2009. This is a different era. This is an era in which companies needed to trim fat and streamline manufacturing. Become efficient or go under. Adapt to the market or go under. Adapt to regulations or go under. Make products that people want or go under.

They learned so much with the Dart that they..nope.. did the same with the 200 also.. Maybe they didn't learn yet. Maybe they learned enough from those that they could release the Renegade/500L without issues...nope.. not there either.. Maybe they learned enough at this point that they can make a good product AND get it out on a reasonable schedule. Reasonable, as in, not years of delay.

[smk4565]

I smell a 2.0 turbo base engine coming with a 3 liter turbo SRT model.

[Stew]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Yes, back in the 80's, 90's and early 00's there was shet management from them all and that's why everybody needed money to have their asses saved in 2007-2009. This is a different era. This is an era in which companies needed to trim fat and streamline manufacturing. Become efficient or go under. Adapt to the market or go under. Adapt to regulations or go under. Make products that people want or go under.

They learned so much with the Dart that they..nope.. did the same with the 200 also.. Maybe they didn't learn yet. Maybe they learned enough from those that they could release the Renegade/500L without issues...nope.. not there either.. Maybe they learned enough at this point that they can make a good product AND get it out on a reasonable schedule. Reasonable, as in, not years of delay.

Have you been in a 200?  Completely different animal from the dart.  IMHO, a lot of the problem was the fact you had those ever popular Jeeps on the same lot and they push the trucks and Jeeps.  plus they kind of shot their themselves in the foot by announcing the stop production so quickly.  Also, this is a bit different.  It takes time to basically rebuild a car company and that is what they have done .  They have started with and continue to build their largest profit centers and continue to use them to drag down their debt until they can put money into other things.  They have dropped from 5 billion to 3 billion in debt is a very short time and have a plan to be completely out of debt by 2018, which is when the real lion's share of new product intros will begin. 

[hyperv6]

4 hours ago, Stew said:

Hyper V6, ou are incorrect on the FCA/GM merger.  In that interview he made it clear they are no longer looking for merger of any kind. 

 

Here is a transcript of the complete unedited interview.

http://www.allpar.com/news/2017/01/what-sergio-really-said-36076

CCap i have little doubt that if I had time to look i could find plenty of instances of such happening with other manufacturers.  Difference is that usually if they are delayed they end up getting cancelled (ie the 98 update of the Thunderbird where there were actual mules running around, including an SV version), but they killed it.  The Fox Mustang 87 Update was put on hold when they decided to make the FWD "Mustang" the Probe and instead did a heavy refresh on the Fox Mustang.  .  I am sure there are TONS more examples.  It happens dude, they are fixing it.  They are making Billion dollar investments retooling factories.  They are going to be bring in 2000 more jobs too.  I know that is just awful, right?   Quit trying to twist everything into a negative. 

Also, remember they learned a huge lesson from rushing the Dart to production and it blew up.  I would rather see delays and things done righ myself. 

Here is what everyone else is reporting. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-09/marchionne-suggests-trump-might-support-merger-with-rival-gm

For him to even bring it up suggest strongly he has not totally given up on this. If given any support this mental case would go down this road again. 

As for rushing product like the Dart into production? How long is long enough? GM had already brought out how many products since the chapter 11 that both went through and even when GM missed it was fixed pretty quick. Now we are even on to the second new platforms not just models. 

The fact is Sergio screwed Chrysler and Dodge on their cars and at this point he is looking for ways to fix it now that his Alfa and Maserati plan has failed. Just go back to where he predicted like 380K Alfa sales by last year and we are no where even close to 1/3 of that. This was to have saved FCA and right now if is in trouble. 

I just do not see how you can not be beside yourself mad at the lunatic running the company. My Mopar buddies would love to lynch him right in Auburn Hills. 

The whole Mustang/Probe deal was GM and Ford was looking to go all FWD in the 80's. GM First and then Ford was going to match them. In the end the Mustang was saved by high volume sales and they just could not kill the car. The enthusiast saved it not Ford. In the end after the deal with Mazda they just changed the name to the Probe and it served it's few years and faded away. GM in the mean time had the GM 80 FWD F body replacment. It was to have been built on the line with the Fiero as the plant was way under capacity. 

So GM was working on it to match the FWD Mustang. Well once Ford moved back to the Fox and planned to keep it GM did the same killing the GM 80. This in turn gave the Corvette guys the ability to point out the under capacity of the Fiero plant and nothing to move to that line and it was killed even with prototypes roaming around and they still have one and I have parts from it. 

The funny thing is the 1990 Fiero was used to style the 4th gen RWD F body. They up sized it and moved the engine but the lines are all there as well that is how some of the body panels ended up composite. 

There is still a lot more to all of this as it was a very intertwined deal.  I have been lucky to speak to many who were in on this and hear the story that could not have been published,.  The UAW and Pontiac were at odds for years as well as Pontiac and GM/Chevy too. 

But the Mustang end I remember very well as working in the performance industry we were making a lot of money from this and with our connections to Ford Motorsports we had some insight to all of this. They even were nervous on the move to the new Ford engines leaving the 5.0 behind. Many still regretted it till the Coyote came out. 

I would love to see someone write a tell all inside story on the performance cars from the 80's and 90's as there was much inter brand rivalry but there was almost internal war inside each company. 

The fights at Chrysler with Lido. Gale, Lutz and Shelby were amazing.  At GM the divisions did more damage to each other than Ford or Chrylser. Ford also had their internal strife. 

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Yes, back in the 80's, 90's and early 00's there was shet management from them all and that's why everybody needed money to have their asses saved in 2007-2009. This is a different era. This is an era in which companies needed to trim fat and streamline manufacturing. Become efficient or go under. Adapt to the market or go under. Adapt to regulations or go under. Make products that people want or go under.

They learned so much with the Dart that they..nope.. did the same with the 200 also.. Maybe they didn't learn yet. Maybe they learned enough from those that they could release the Renegade/500L without issues...nope.. not there either.. Maybe they learned enough at this point that they can make a good product AND get it out on a reasonable schedule. Reasonable, as in, not years of delay.

They learned that you can let Chrysler can make a compelling design but slapping it on a poor Lancia or Fiat based platform was not enough. There is not cheap easy way out of this issue. They needed to let Chrysler do the platform just as the styling and do it right. Then they would have had a back seat with leg room and not had to squish it on a platform that was not bad but not great and too small. 

The Dart was just too little in a segment where it is tough to measure up even with a very good car. 

[Suaviloquent]

What's the worse that could happen here....

 

You can slap a Jeep name on a sedan, and it'll sell through the roof, just because it'll be the first-ever, and Jeep.

[daves87rs]

15 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Hellllllllo Reliability!!

 

+1

[Stew]

12 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

Here is what everyone else is reporting. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-09/marchionne-suggests-trump-might-support-merger-with-rival-gm

For him to even bring it up suggest strongly he has not totally given up on this. If given any support this mental case would go down this road again. 

As for rushing product like the Dart into production? How long is long enough? GM had already brought out how many products since the chapter 11 that both went through and even when GM missed it was fixed pretty quick. Now we are even on to the second new platforms not just models. 

The fact is Sergio screwed Chrysler and Dodge on their cars and at this point he is looking for ways to fix it now that his Alfa and Maserati plan has failed. Just go back to where he predicted like 380K Alfa sales by last year and we are no where even close to 1/3 of that. This was to have saved FCA and right now if is in trouble. 

I just do not see how you can not be beside yourself mad at the lunatic running the company. My Mopar buddies would love to lynch him right in Auburn Hills. 

The whole Mustang/Probe deal was GM and Ford was looking to go all FWD in the 80's. GM First and then Ford was going to match them. In the end the Mustang was saved by high volume sales and they just could not kill the car. The enthusiast saved it not Ford. In the end after the deal with Mazda they just changed the name to the Probe and it served it's few years and faded away. GM in the mean time had the GM 80 FWD F body replacment. It was to have been built on the line with the Fiero as the plant was way under capacity. 

So GM was working on it to match the FWD Mustang. Well once Ford moved back to the Fox and planned to keep it GM did the same killing the GM 80. This in turn gave the Corvette guys the ability to point out the under capacity of the Fiero plant and nothing to move to that line and it was killed even with prototypes roaming around and they still have one and I have parts from it. 

The funny thing is the 1990 Fiero was used to style the 4th gen RWD F body. They up sized it and moved the engine but the lines are all there as well that is how some of the body panels ended up composite. 

There is still a lot more to all of this as it was a very intertwined deal.  I have been lucky to speak to many who were in on this and hear the story that could not have been published,.  The UAW and Pontiac were at odds for years as well as Pontiac and GM/Chevy too. 

But the Mustang end I remember very well as working in the performance industry we were making a lot of money from this and with our connections to Ford Motorsports we had some insight to all of this. They even were nervous on the move to the new Ford engines leaving the 5.0 behind. Many still regretted it till the Coyote came out. 

I would love to see someone write a tell all inside story on the performance cars from the 80's and 90's as there was much inter brand rivalry but there was almost internal war inside each company. 

The fights at Chrysler with Lido. Gale, Lutz and Shelby were amazing.  At GM the divisions did more damage to each other than Ford or Chrylser. Ford also had their internal strife. 

They learned that you can let Chrysler can make a compelling design but slapping it on a poor Lancia or Fiat based platform was not enough. There is not cheap easy way out of this issue. They needed to let Chrysler do the platform just as the styling and do it right. Then they would have had a back seat with leg room and not had to squish it on a platform that was not bad but not great and too small. 

The Dart was just too little in a segment where it is tough to measure up even with a very good car. 

Please read the interview.  per the man himself they are no longer seeking ANY merger.  His words, not some third party news service that is guessing. 

9 hours ago, Suaviloquent said:

What's the worse that could happen here....

 

You can slap a Jeep name on a sedan, and it'll sell through the roof, just because it'll be the first-ever, and Jeep.

Return of the AMC Eagle!!!!!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9OyEG8wBHSc/maxresdefault.jpg

 

9 hours ago, Suaviloquent said:

What's the worse that could happen here....

 

You can slap a Jeep name on a sedan, and it'll sell through the roof, just because it'll be the first-ever, and Jeep.

Return of the AMC Eagle!!!!!

 

[G. David Felt]

8 minutes ago, Stew said:

Return of the AMC Eagle!!!!!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9OyEG8wBHSc/maxresdefault.jpg

 

Return of the AMC Eagle!!!!!

 

Probably as a re-badge POS Alfa. Course I actually liked this auto as it was an American version of a Subaru 4x4. Way before it's time or the public knowing they wanted awd cuv's.

[Stew]

2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Probably as a re-badge POS Alfa. Course I actually liked this auto as it was an American version of a Subaru 4x4. Way before it's time or the public knowing they wanted awd cuv's.

I knew a few people who had these when I was a kid.  WIsh I would have been old enough to pick one up when they sold them haha. 

I would prefer:

 

 

[G. David Felt]

45 minutes ago, Stew said:

I knew a few people who had these when I was a kid.  WIsh I would have been old enough to pick one up when they sold them haha. 

I would prefer:

 

 

Yea these were cool cars, lifted and 4x4. Would love to have a clean one like this one. Any color would do really I think.

[Stew]

2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Yea these were cool cars, lifted and 4x4. Would love to have a clean one like this one. Any color would do really I think.

Yes, agreed.  Would be a hell of a lo of fun in the hills here.