Chevrolet News:GM Is Ready To Lose Close To $9,000 On Every Bolt Sold

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, Wings4Life said:

BTW, the new 5.0L should see a slight improvement in FE, even with the increased power.

It will by itself almost match the ability of the 6.2L GM V8.  It will certainly best it in FE

I few 10ths here and there won't matter to me... I'm not pulling horse trailers. As long as the performance is sufficient, which even the current 5.0 would be, it will come down to looks and "the deal".   The only F-150 I'm interested in is the King Ranch because I love the look. 

The order for me is:

1. Specific features I want (does it have a V8 is included in this)

2. Looks (I'm very particular on looks)

3. Price (Denali Ultimate is in the running... so it's more of how much of a "deal" I can get)

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I was completely sold on the Kawasaki Vulcan S until I drove that BMW R Nine T Scrambler.....  I was in love at first ride.   I test drove about 8 different bikes that day.  Surprisingly, not many auto journalists have their motorcycle license, so there wasn't a lot of people testing bikes.  I was so enamored with the BMW, the PR rep let me take it out again for most of the afternoon. 

Cheers to you then.  I will now add this to my short list, as I am almost ready to pull the trigger myself. Already warned the wife.  She called it midlife.  LOL

 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, Wings4Life said:

Cheers to you then.  I will now add this to my short list, as I am almost ready to pull the trigger myself. Already warned the wife.  She called it midlife.  LOL

 

I'll try to get my review of it up next week while I'm trapped in Houston then.  I'm transferring all of my pictures to the new laptop now. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I few 10ths here and there won't matter to me... I'm not pulling horse trailers. As long as the performance is sufficient, which even the current 5.0 would be, it will come down to looks and "the deal".   The only F-150 I'm interested in is the King Ranch because I love the look. 

The order for me is:

1. Specific features I want (does it have a V8 is included in this)

2. Looks (I'm very particular on looks)

3. Price (Denali Ultimate is in the running... so it's more of how much of a "deal" I can get)

Have to say, the Denali Ultimate might win it even for me today. I actually get both discounts, so it would not matter to me.  But if we are talking a few $K's difference, I would put that last on my priority list.  Get what you want first.

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, Wings4Life said:

Have to say, the Denali Ultimate might win it even for me today. I actually get both discounts, so it would not matter to me.  But if we are talking a few $K's difference, I would put that last on my priority list.  Get what you want first.

Yeah, I only get the GM discount.  So it may come down to that. Though I may be able to finagle a Ford discount too and I really do like the King Ranch.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Ecoboost F150 is very good and worth a look.

Would own an Ecoboost F150 before I would own a Malibu with its tiny turbo...

...but then you know me...I would own A John Cooper Works Mini S before I owned ether an F150 or Malibu!

Ecoboost does deliver in spades...

Quoted for truth!

I was merely using eco-boost as an example of the absurdity that real world usage doesn't matter according to a certain user here. I agree with you about Eco Boost, all joking aside. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Just now, surreal1272 said:

I was merely using eco-boost as an example of the absurdity that real world usage doesn't matter according to a certain user here. I agree with you about Eco Boost, all joking aside. 

Uhhh, never said real world does not matter. Never said anything remotely close.

Focus on the subject please, not people.

[surreal1272]

8 hours ago, FordCosworth said:

I'll be testing out a Gen 2 3.5L EcoBoost 10spd combo F-150 early in the New Year!

With all positives I've read, I'm curious to try one out. 

 

The Eco Boost reference was meant as a joke and not to be taken literally. I have a coworker with a FX4 model (a 2014 mind you) and he raves about the truck. He really seems to dig it and it is a sharp looking ride. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by surreal1272

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

drew,

check out this review of the scrambler. He drove both the 9T and 9T scrambler and prefers the 9T.  Just another opinion, but he did bring up some valid points.

 

 

[surreal1272]

11 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Uhhh, never said real world does not matter. Never said anything remotely close.

Focus on the subject please, not people.

You mostly certainly did discount real world examples and you, of all people, don't get to tell me what to focus on. 

1 hour ago, Wings4Life said:

My agenda?  I am here discussing that facts as I know them and I am 100% consistent on them. Exactly what kind of agenda would I have....try to discourage sales of them?  

 From my perspective, you are the one making a big deal and you are the one going in every direction trying to prove a point.

 

 

Really? So I'm the one telling you to "man the eff up" and calling you a "dork" because I present facts that don't jive with you? No. That is all you because you got your panties in a damn knot over it, hence your colorful responses. You have a strange sense of revisionist history but the truth was clearly laid out by you as evidenced by your little diatribes against me while having the nerve to tell me not to focus on people. 

And I quote,

"Now man the efff up dork, and admit GM trails Ford by a significant margin."

Yeah you weren't trying to make that about me at all (obvious sarcasm btw). 

Edited December 10, 2016 by surreal1272

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

surreal,

topic please.

[surreal1272]

1 minute ago, Wings4Life said:

surreal,

topic please.

Let me say this for you one more time.

You don't get to tell me what to focus on...ever. Got it?

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Topic please, any topic, other than me. 

No need to close yet another thread.

[surreal1272]

2 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Topic please, any topic, other than me. 

No need to close yet another thread.

Comments like "Man the EFF up dork" are what get threads closed, not anything I have said just now. You'd do well to understand the difference and stop telling me what to do.

 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Comments like "Man the EFF up dork" are what get threads closed, not anything I have said just now. You'd do well to understand the difference and stop telling me what to do.

 

Fewer rants, more topic please.

[surreal1272]

5 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Fewer rants, more topic please.

Or better yet Dorothy, just click your heels three times and take yourself to place where I might actually give a damn. You were perfectly fine making it about me yesterday, insulting me, and trying to discount everything I (and others said) because it did not jive with your agenda (and that's exactly what it was) and now that reality has set in, you want to act like you have some moral high ground here? Seriously LMFAO here over that one. You don't get to just sweep all of that under a rug and act like it didn't happen because it did. So, to use one your more colorful lines, "Man the EFF up" and admit that you were just acting a like dick yesterday by trying to make this about me. Until then, refer to my posts above, i.e. You don't get to tell me what to do ever, mmmkay?

 

So, I asked this yesterday and it got lost in the shuffle of insults and pettiness, so I'll follow up here.

Any projections on sales for the Bolt @Drew Dowdell? Surely GM has a target in mind and I'm curious as to what they think is a realistic number for the Bolt.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

12 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Or better yet Dorothy, just click your heels three times and take yourself to place where I might actually give a damn. You were perfectly fine making it about me yesterday, insulting me, and trying to discount everything I (and others said) because it did not jive with your agenda (and that's exactly what it was) and now that reality has set in, you want to act like you have some moral high ground here? Seriously LMFAO here over that one. You don't get to just sweep all of that under a rug and act like it didn't happen because it did. So, to use one your more colorful lines, "Man the EFF up" and admit that you were just acting a like dick yesterday by trying to make this about me. Until then, refer to my posts above, i.e. You don't get to tell me what to do ever, mmmkay?

 

I am long over it, as I have actually manned up, and this should not be about me. Topic please.

[surreal1272]

2 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

I am long over it, as I have actually manned up, and this should not be about me. Topic please.

Riiiiight. You keep telling yourself that.  

 

And the topic os being discussed right above you there. Try to keep up. 

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The truck doesn't have to haul much except occasional construction material from Home Depot, tow the Toronado on an open car trailer.... or haul my other "Business is good" gift to myself if it happens. 

 

Wings is correct with this one.  Ford did their hybrid system on their own, however, in order to avoid a nasty patent litigation fight, they paid Toyota a minimal royalty just to keep things civil between the two companies. 

Good to know on the patent thing....thanks!

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'll try to get my review of it up next week while I'm trapped in Houston then.  I'm transferring all of my pictures to the new laptop now. 

Hell yes!

My gift to myself hopefully this next year is a new band saw....

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Or better yet Dorothy, just click your heels three times and take yourself to place where I might actually give a damn. You were perfectly fine making it about me yesterday, insulting me, and trying to discount everything I (and others said) because it did not jive with your agenda (and that's exactly what it was) and now that reality has set in, you want to act like you have some moral high ground here? Seriously LMFAO here over that one. You don't get to just sweep all of that under a rug and act like it didn't happen because it did. So, to use one your more colorful lines, "Man the EFF up" and admit that you were just acting a like dick yesterday by trying to make this about me. Until then, refer to my posts above, i.e. You don't get to tell me what to do ever, mmmkay?

 

So, I asked this yesterday and it got lost in the shuffle of insults and pettiness, so I'll follow up here.

Any projections on sales for the Bolt @Drew Dowdell? Surely GM has a target in mind and I'm curious as to what they think is a realistic number for the Bolt.

GM originally stated 36,000 world wide, they have since taken the single shift to 6 days a week production as they have more orders than they expected from the dealers and before you ask, no GM has not given any update on what they expect now for sales. The only thing they did say is that the assembly line could handle up to 90,000 auto's a year before adding multiple shifts if memory serves me correct.

I think GM truly has planned long term to have the Bolt grow to be one of their bigger sellars.

[surreal1272]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

GM originally stated 36,000 world wide, they have since taken the single shift to 6 days a week production as they have more orders than they expected from the dealers and before you ask, no GM has not given any update on what they expect now for sales. The only thing they did say is that the assembly line could handle up to 90,000 auto's a year before adding multiple shifts if memory serves me correct.

I think GM truly has planned long term to have the Bolt grow to be one of their bigger sellars.

I think that's a safe number for them and it's good to know that if the Bolt really takes off, then they are prepared for the extra demand. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

If GM sold 90K Bolts, that would be a loss of $810,000,000.00 according this thread.

 

I don't know if I should be cheering them on to do so.

If gas remains cheap, I predict sales averaging out to about 1.2K units per month.

 

[hyperv6]

2 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

If GM sold 90K Bolts, that would be a loss of $810,000,000.00 according this thread.

 

I don't know if I should be cheering them on to do so.

If gas remains cheap, I predict sales averaging out to about 1.2K units per month.

 

I rather think GM will may loose a little on this but it will be more of a closer to break even kind of deal. You have to consider that not only are they going to keep the losses lower but they will take advantage of every write off that is a loss from their taxes. We do that at work with as many things as possible so the total loss in the end is neutraled. 

They will also target the markets where these cars will sell the best. The more liberal areas and places where Green customers can be found will get most of the distribution. You need to play to your strengths.

I expect GM is not expecting or wanting to see so many that it would put them in the negative either. Like the Volt first gen they will reach a number that will be good for them and they will move on to the next stage.

 

Tesla is only making it on high prices to this point and the same thing will happen with the 3 as while a base car will come in at 40K plus the options will add up fast. I just saw a X model tested with 68K in options or so it was listed. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

For many people, the cost of gas isn't even a factor.  

There are a lot of reasons to like a Bolt or any full EV with 230+ mile range while completely ignoring the cost of gas. 

[hyperv6]

5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

For many people, the cost of gas isn't even a factor.  

There are a lot of reasons to like a Bolt or any full EV with 230+ mile range while completely ignoring the cost of gas. 

The problem is while gas prices are not the focus of all it is the prime focus of most if you plan to grow beyond the Green fans. 

Low energy cost kill even small car sales with gas engine let alone electric that has an even smaller audience. 

There are often more reasons not to buy a EV too for many people.

This market is like growing a crop. You may want sweet corn in May but you have to let the field grow and harvest it when it is ready. 

 

Edited December 10, 2016 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

3 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

The problem is while gas prices are not the focus of all it is the prime focus of most if you plan to grow beyond the Green fans. 

Low energy cost kill even small car sales with gas engine let alone electric that has an even smaller audience. 

There is a convenience factor to EVs that I think has remained undiscovered by the general Corolla and Pruis driver as of yet. Never having to get gas during your normal routine. Never having to get oil changes. Routine maintenance in the range of 15,000 miles instead of 5,000 miles.  There is a lot going for EVs for people who want the least intrusive car experience possible. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Just thought of something about PHEV's,

how do they plan for oil changes? If the ICE is running a fraction of the time, it does not makes sense to just follow driven miles.  So that 3K miles sticker reminder means little.  I am hearing stories of filling up once a month or less.

 

 

[G. David Felt]

4 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

If GM sold 90K Bolts, that would be a loss of $810,000,000.00 according this thread.

I don't know if I should be cheering them on to do so.

If gas remains cheap, I predict sales averaging out to about 1.2K units per month.

While I expect much less of a loss, this is still a doable figure to off set Billions in profits so you end up as neutral as possible in paying the tax man.

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There is a convenience factor to EVs that I think has remained undiscovered by the general Corolla and Pruis driver as of yet. Never having to get gas during your normal routine. Never having to get oil changes. Routine maintenance in the range of 15,000 miles instead of 5,000 miles.  There is a lot going for EVs for people who want the least intrusive car experience possible. 

What drew states is so true, most of the High Tech Workers want a minimal maintenance, what they see as intrusive auto experience. The EV's give this in so many ways and many especially west coast cities are looking for ways to reduce noise level as they grow their inner City communities and try to get things quieter.

Plus who would not want such an easy Maintenance Schedule for their Auto?

1 hour ago, Wings4Life said:

Just thought of something about PHEV's,

how do they plan for oil changes? If the ICE is running a fraction of the time, it does not makes sense to just follow driven miles.  So that 3K miles sticker reminder means little.  I am hearing stories of filling up once a month or less.

Here is the 2015 Chevy Volt Maintenance Schedule. Pretty easy and way stretched out on things for the Generator. While they have you check the Oil every 7500 miles, you change it based on the % of oil life left based on how much it has run.

[surreal1272]

27 minutes ago, dfelt said:

What drew states is so true, most of the High Tech Workers want a minimal maintenance, what they see as intrusive auto experience. The EV's give this in so many ways and many especially west coast cities are looking for ways to reduce noise level as they grow their inner City communities and try to get things quieter.

Plus who would not want such an easy Maintenance Schedule for their Auto?

Here is the 2015 Chevy Volt Maintenance Schedule. Pretty easy and way stretched out on things for the Generator. While they have you check the Oil every 7500 miles, you change it based on the % of oil life left based on how much it has run.

Outside of not having to ever visit a gas station again, the maintenance schedules are one of the top reasons for me to consider an EV. Like Drew said, there are many reasons to want to go the EV route other than not needing gasoline and oil ever again. I'm telling you, I may make the leap to a pre-owned Volt with an eye on a full fledged EV down the road. 

[ocnblu]

It is a threat to my very existence, having to get oil changes and stop for gas.  Very harmful, and I don't know if I can take it much longer.

[FordCosworth]

37 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

It is a threat to my very existence, having to get oil changes and stop for gas.  Very harmful, and I don't know if I can take it much longer.

Got that right. Such hardship. Such intrusion... 

[surreal1272]

58 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

It is a threat to my very existence, having to get oil changes and stop for gas.  Very harmful, and I don't know if I can take it much longer.

Yeah heaven forbid someone NOT wanting to deal with either and saving some time and money in the process. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

It is a threat to my very existence, having to get oil changes and stop for gas.  Very harmful, and I don't know if I can take it much longer.

Nope, your welcome to all the oil changes and gas stops you want, but many would be happy to not deal with that.

[FordCosworth]

48 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Yeah heaven forbid someone NOT wanting to deal with either and saving some time and money in the process. 

Saving money? As in the 15k ( or there abouts ) one saves by buying a comparable sized ICE car vs a Bolt...

I can live that type of savings if it means filling up once or twice a month, and an oil change that many mfg's or dealers include at no cost and take about 15min every 5k + miles 

 

 

[hyperv6]

5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There is a convenience factor to EVs that I think has remained undiscovered by the general Corolla and Pruis driver as of yet. Never having to get gas during your normal routine. Never having to get oil changes. Routine maintenance in the range of 15,000 miles instead of 5,000 miles.  There is a lot going for EVs for people who want the least intrusive car experience possible. 

Yet they have the inconvenience of having longer refueling times that use much more time than any oil change or filling of a gasoline tank. 

Not everyone is going to charge over night and when on a trip a lot of wasted time in BF Egypt waiting to continue the ride. 

Drew to the average driver the EV is a life style changer as you have to plan your trips around charging station. You have to plan your time around charging times and if you should cut it too close you are not going to just get a can of 110 Volts and dump it into the car and get home. 

Don't get me wrong as I support the Bolt and having theses cars but to the average person they see things they do not have to do and extra time and money spent and they would rather spend the time at the 10 min lube. 

The bottom line yet is the EV is not to the point it can fully replace the expectations and needs of the average buyer in most cases yet. To own a EV you need to make the bigger commitment on price and install of a charging system. The need to plan your life around it differently and in many cases to have a back up car in case you do not have a full charge in the car and have a need to travel unplanned or to take a long trip in the fly over states where charging stations are as common as a Lamborghini Miura's. 

So while I get your point and we will get to that mark at some point we ain't there yet. It still take commitment and adjustment to own one of these models yet for the average person.  

[Drew Dowdell]

5 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

Just thought of something about PHEV's,

how do they plan for oil changes? If the ICE is running a fraction of the time, it does not makes sense to just follow driven miles.  So that 3K miles sticker reminder means little.  I am hearing stories of filling up once a month or less.

 

 

Does anyone still do the sticker? I use the oil life monitor on both my Honda and Buick.  The computer tells me when to change it. 

[Drew Dowdell]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

It is a threat to my very existence, having to get oil changes and stop for gas.  Very harmful, and I don't know if I can take it much longer.

For some people it is an annoyance.  We have one traveling sales dude who works for us who drive a Kia Soul.  We make fun of him because he's always running out of gas because he's forgetting to stop to fill up.   He's home every night... he drives a lot, but never 200 miles in a typical work day. He's an ideal EV candidate. 

[hyperv6]

6 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

For many people, the cost of gas isn't even a factor.  

There are a lot of reasons to like a Bolt or any full EV with 230+ mile range while completely ignoring the cost of gas. 

I would love the bolt for a daily beater to work and back. But the rest of my life where I bug out to Charlotte, Indy,  Detroit, Charleston or Columbus It is a no go as I do not want to spend the time charging the car just to get where I am going or have to go out of my way to even find a place to charge. 

Most people when they travel only stop for two reasons Gas and to Piss. Both take less than 10 min as you multi task the slurppy as you pay for the gas. You jump in and make it to where you are going.

Americans are the kind of people who drive to Florida non stop and brag about how few hours it took them to drive from Detroit to Orlando. You tell us to stop at that big rest stop in southern WV for a couple hours and we will tell you where to go and it will not be down the road.

What I described here is the common driver in the mid west. we are not tourist as we have been over this ground so much we know all the pot holes on I77. We get annoyed when a large gas line ruptures and closes the road and cost us a 30 min detour in WV. [true story as was the 12  our trip back from WV to Ohio in flood on the interstate that took us back to WV and up I79 and back once we got out the stopped traffic of several hours. 

People like this are common and they drive 500 miles like Daytona as any stop is seen as only extending a already too long trip. 

We are the people what when we had duel tanks we straddled the pumps and filled from both sides. LOL! 

7 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Does anyone still do the sticker? I use the oil life monitor on both my Honda and Buick.  The computer tells me when to change it. 

Oil monitor here and I change the Fiero by the years as I drive only to shows and Pontiac events. It gets old and I change it and my buddy puts it in his car as it is normally still clean. 

[Drew Dowdell]

And there are people who never ever do that.... and just use their cars to get around town.

Face it... those of us who visit automotive enthusiast sites have different driving patterns.  Most people aren't like us. 

Do you really think the typical Corolla buyer wants to spend any more time in or with their car than they have to?  An oil change is an annoyance to them

[surreal1272]

41 minutes ago, FordCosworth said:

Saving money? As in the 15k ( or there abouts ) one saves by buying a comparable sized ICE car vs a Bolt...

I can live that type of savings if it means filling up once or twice a month, and an oil change that many mfg's or dealers include at no cost and take about 15min every 5k + miles 

 

 

First off, your scenario works for you. Congrats. That does not apply to everyone though and you know it. Second, that "no cost" is only good for two years with most makes. After that, it's coming out of your wallet and time (and my time is money so there's that too). Third, there are other savings and advantages that have been well discussed in other threads about EVs. A little research goes a long ways.

And what ICE car can you possibly compare to a Bolt? All I know is that the company you hold stock in has an EV with a 140 mile shorter range and starts at $30K. Besides, it's called taking a chance and GM should at least be applauded for it. Like it or not, the future of most cars and CUVs is in EV tech and those costs will come down with every passing year, just like when hybrids made their way onto the scene almost two decades ago.

14 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

And there are people who never ever do that.... and just use their cars to get around town.

Face it... those of us who visit automotive enthusiast sites have different driving patterns.  Most people aren't like us. 

Do you really think the typical Corolla buyer wants to spend any more time in or with their car than they have to?  An oil change is an annoyance to them

This, this, and more of this! Too many here think that their minority examples are the norm when they are the exact opposite.

[G. David Felt]

So Here is something I REALLY HOPE GM does and that is show people the cost of Fueling the Chevy BOLT.

I built this spreadsheet just now using the most current figures for Electrical cost per state for ALL Sectors. This means average cost of Residential, Commercial, Industrial and Transportation.

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a

This is equal to 4 fill ups of a Bolt battery pack based on 238 miles for 60kWh.

Formula I have in the spreadsheet is very clear. Cost per kWh * 240= monthly cost of Electricity. 240 is equal to 4 chargings of the Bolt battery pack. If this does not show you the biggest benefit of driving an EV over ICE, then nothing will. 

ICE has Fuel cost, oil changes, plus so many other maintenance costs that is far greater than an EV Auto.

My cost based on this is $18.38 per month in Washington state, If I did this on Residential charging only I pay 6 cents per kWh then my monthly cost would be $14.40.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, hyperv6 said:

Yet they have the inconvenience of having longer refueling times that use much more time than any oil change or filling of a gasoline tank. 

Not everyone is going to charge over night and when on a trip a lot of wasted time in BF Egypt waiting to continue the ride. 

Drew to the average driver the EV is a life style changer as you have to plan your trips around charging station. You have to plan your time around charging times and if you should cut it too close you are not going to just get a can of 110 Volts and dump it into the car and get home. 

Don't get me wrong as I support the Bolt and having theses cars but to the average person they see things they do not have to do and extra time and money spent and they would rather spend the time at the 10 min lube. 

The bottom line yet is the EV is not to the point it can fully replace the expectations and needs of the average buyer in most cases yet. To own a EV you need to make the bigger commitment on price and install of a charging system. The need to plan your life around it differently and in many cases to have a back up car in case you do not have a full charge in the car and have a need to travel unplanned or to take a long trip in the fly over states where charging stations are as common as a Lamborghini Miura's. 

So while I get your point and we will get to that mark at some point we ain't there yet. It still take commitment and adjustment to own one of these models yet for the average person.  

I get your point Hyper, but then the west coast has the most built out charging infrastructure and it really is no big deal to pull into a place to stop to shop and just plug in your ev auto, works all over free charging, rest stops all have them and while the bulk is Level 2 240V charging, the highways have level 3 DC fast charging. If I was to drive a bolt 238 miles, stop for a break, grab a bite, piss and use the level 3 charger, 30 min later on the road again. Yes this is a change compared to ICE, but I think many people will see it as a no big deal especially if they use it for commuting to work and their ICE as you stated for road trips. Yet even then again, west coast will still use their EV, after all free juice.

[G. David Felt]

 I think when I get a chance unless someone else beats me to it. would be good to build a chart showing cost per year of the bolt compared to an equal ICE auto.

We already know the cost per month for the Bolt electricity. Now just need to pick an equal ICE and then count up the gas, oil changes, and any other maintenance in the year that the auto company requires.

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't know if it was posted earlier or not.... but the Bolt requires basically nothing in routine maintenance for the first 150k miles.

Rotate the tires, change the wipers, change the cabin filter.... that's it.... for 150k miles. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Does anyone still do the sticker? I use the oil life monitor on both my Honda and Buick.  The computer tells me when to change it. 

The sticker is there for the coupon, mostly.  At least for me.

And I dug a little deeper regarding oil changes, and found out there is an intelligent oil life monitor. Oil life is 7500 miles, and typical use of the car plugging in regularly, the ICE use is only 30% of the time, I calculated an oil change is only needed every 1.5 years, when driving about 15K miles per year.  Many who rarely ever use ICE at all, find they have to just start their PHEV's to keep condensation from building.  Pumping gas is a rare event. 

Anyway, my point, unless you have some phobia about very rare maintenance and don't mind filling up every few months as you get your coffee or energy drink, then a PHEV is a cheaper and better option.......wait for it..........FOR MOST.

[surreal1272]

Not wanting to deal with certain aspects of ICE ownership is not a "phobia" and its rather pretentious and borderline condescending to even insulate it when the reasons have been clearly laid out by several posters here. 

 

Folks fighting against obvious progress because of their own "phobias" should consider this example. If you have to pee or poop, you can always go outside in the yard or the outhouse but I bet you choose to use the bathroom instead. Think about it for more than a minute.

[FordCosworth]

What the heck happened?

Edited December 11, 2016 by FordCosworth

[ocnblu]

10 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

And there are people who never ever do that.... and just use their cars to get around town.

Face it... those of us who visit automotive enthusiast sites have different driving patterns.  Most people aren't like us. 

Do you really think the typical Corolla buyer wants to spend any more time in or with their car than they have to?  An oil change is an annoyance to them

Oh please.  They have their phone, nothing else matters, the time will go quickly sitting in the spic and span Toyota waiting area with free wi-fi and coffee bar.  PLUS, your Kia Soul guy who is home every night?  He is an imbecile and he would forget to plug in the damn car, guaranteed.  Forgetting to stop for gas is a mental problem, not a Soul problem.

Edited December 11, 2016 by ocnblu

[frogger]

Pushing me to check that screen capped forum out if repeated ongoing drama queen foolishness is quickly perma-banned there.

Edited December 11, 2016 by frogger