ev Europe's 400 Ultra-Fast Charging Network by 2020

[G. David Felt]

G. David Felt
Staff Writer Alternative Energy - www.CheersandGears.com

 

Europe's 400 Ultra-Fast Charging Network by 2020

Europe like America has the 3 basic charging standards in play in their fragile network of 2016. These is what we know as the 110, 220 and 440, level 1, 2 and 3 chargers. Yet Europe is not standing by waiting for Tesla or American Auto companies to drive EV auto's. Instead Europe has built the following consortium of Auto companies who have all chosen to contribute an equal amount to building the next generation charger network. VW, GM, BMW, Daimler, FORD, FCA, Hyundai, Volvo and Jaguar Land Rover have choosen to build 400 locations over the next 3 years that will sense and charge up to 350 kW in the period of a quick Coffee break. This is significantly faster and higher than the Tesla 120kW fast charging system. The goal by the European Government is to offer road trip worthy auto's with fast charging to bring less noise and cleaner air to European cities by 2020 and to make the bulk of inner city auto's EV's within 10 years of the fast charging system going live, so by 2030.

Diamler is wanting to lead the European charge with their 300+ kilometer EV-CUV

This would seem to show that Tesla has had the desired effect of making a market changing revolution of how companies and governments see the future of transportation.

Source PM

[A Horse With No Name]

.... good luck getting the in the USA....glad Europe is doing this.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Drew Dowdell
Removed politics

[oldshurst442]

Yup...I wanted to comment on this.

It goes to show you how the rest of the planet seems to want to embrace electricity while us in North America are dragging our feet.

IRONY...at the turn of the last century...the 1900s...when the industrial revolution was starting to heat up...England and the USA was at the forefront of this revolution and the USA as a young nation exploded unto the scene with its youthful enthusiasm regarding revolutionary life style changes...

Sure there were other nations that were industrializing themselves, but not at the fervour and rate the USA was.

At the turn of this century...The USA is like a caveman, grunting and scratching his testicles reminiscing about the  good 'ole days of making America great again...but little do they understand that moving forward into this world of electrification WILL make America great again...

FORD of Europe and GM of Europe are in this with the other European car makers...

You add Tesla into the mix and you got the NEW Detroit Big 3 LEADING the way...

TESLA is the GIANT in this and GM is just about the biggest automobile car manufacturer again...Hyundai might have something to say about that...but it don't matter...GM still beats Hyundai in innovations...IF ONLY AMERICA UNCUFFS GM TO LEAD THE WAY IN THE USA AS WELL!!!

 

Yes with ELECTRIFICATION...

Johan de Nysschen wants to take Cadillac racing with fossil fuel technology...

What a BACKWARRDS step that is...

There is an F1 Electric car race in the making as we speak...

Cadillac should do that instead...but NO!

Americans still believe the V8 motor is the way to go...

The V8 motor my friends is a dying breed....

Tesla has changed that mind set...

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

Coincidently...that is why I think Tesla will survive and continue on...

Because the both the industry and the people view Tesla as the benchmark.

The industry does not want to admit this...but the consumer is not shy to express that opinion.

Tesla is the one to continue to innovate AND IMPLEMENT these changes without HESITATION.

Unless Tesla STOPS their passion for electrification and another player sweeps in to take their place...I don't see Tesla stumbling.

We make fun of Tesla with some of their moves and decisions...

But this is a NEW formula where nothing is written to base of what must be done.

Tesla is the one to write the formula going forward and many of their ideas WILL be misses.

But THAT is how technology rolls anyhow...like I said...if Tesla continues with their passion for electrification...Tesla aint going nowhere but forwards.

Europe and China sadly...looks like THEY will be the NEXT hubbub of giving us the way of how we humans live in the current future and will leave the USA in the dust...in the past...

Make America Great Again...

Sure!

[A Horse With No Name]

Exactly why I said in the Cadillac thread that our luxury cars will  eventually be built to Chinese tastes and not US tastes.

 

Americans want all of the benefits of living in a first world, first rate society with none of th effort...let me know how that works out for them...

Tesla has enormous cash flow problems that will get orders of magnitude worse under the Trump administration, my thought is put a fork in it, but I could be wrong...and hope that I am.

[oldshurst442]

7 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Exactly why I said in the Cadillac thread that our luxury cars will  eventually be built to Chinese tastes and not US tastes.

 

Americans want all of the benefits of living in a first world, first rate society with none of th effort...let me know how that works out for them...

Tesla has enormous cash flow problems that will get orders of magnitude worse under the Trump administration, my thought is put a fork in it, but I could be wrong...and hope that I am.

I aint arguing there!

But...Tesla could move their headquarters to another country. Sure the mega battery factory will still be in the States, but they could move their headquarters elsewhere...and France...

France already has told Tesla they could use one of their old Nuclear electricity producing plants to use for building their cars  AND France WILL fit the bill for converting that plant if they choose to move there...

If Europe surpasses the USA for electric car sales along with China...Tesla might bolt out of the US...with little money involved as I imagine England or some Nordic country would court them with France...

Edited December 1, 2016 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, oldshurst442 said:

I aint arguing there!

But...Tesla could move their headquarters to another country. Sure the mega battery factory will still be in the States, but they could move their headquarters elsewhere...and France...

France already has told Tesla they use one of their old Nuclear electricity producing plants to use for building their cars for free if they choose to move there...

If Europe surpasses the USA for electric car sales along with China...Tesla might bolt out of the US...with little money involved as I imagine England or some Nordic country would court them with France...

I could really see the French doing this.

But they would have to be willing to have a long term cash infusion to get the three to market.

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I could really see the French doing this.

But they would have to be willing to have a long term cash infusion to get the three to market.

I think they are willing.

Tesla could boost their own flagging car industry.

Tesla could put a boost in their industry.

Maybe at the expense of Citroen or Peugeot or Renault?

It don't matter. If their car industry could still employ Frenchies...and their factories don't end up being vacant....

Germany has put a strangle hold on many European car manufacturing countries...

Letn us not go too far into this...

Bottom line is that Europe and its people are looking into the future to try to better their transport and pollution.

To better the lives of every European.

To live in a European Dream.

 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

I think the crumbling EU and the rise of infighting among European countries wills end shock waves through the European auto industry. Plus a lot of people will want to move production out of England now that they are no longer part of the EU.

Interesting times!

I am almost wondering if the electric car revolution in America will come through local means.  cities tend to be much more politically liberal than rural areas, i could see cities taking the lead on charging networks.

[oldshurst442]

6 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I think the crumbling EU and the rise of infighting among European countries wills end shock waves through the European auto industry. Plus a lot of people will want to move production out of England now that they are no longer part of the EU.

Interesting times!

I did not think of the Brexit...I forgot about it...OOPSIES!

but it sure is an interesting time...

Edited December 1, 2016 by oldshurst442

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Americans will embrace EV when someone produces an EV without massive limitations and cost.  Until then, automakers can offer them in minimalist numbers, losing thousands each sale, because of unrealistic CAFE mandates.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Drew Dowdell
No politics

[G. David Felt]

Wrote a whole piece in the alternative forum about the west coast electric highway.

http://westcoastgreenhighway.com/electrichighway.htm

I can tell you all that the High Tech Industry is all for electric auto's and with the Chevy BOLT here, Nissan Leaf 2.0 in a year, Hyundai Ionic here now and the Tesla 3 in 2018, I seriously do not see Trump derailing this.

Trump can and would win many supporters if he supported the US building a 350kW infrastructure in North America. Canada and Mexico would jump on board and we could have a new Industrial revolution.

Just think about the new smarter Electric grid and the new charging stations, you can still have that coffee stop, plug in the auto, grab your Starbucks and 15 min later out the door back on the road after hitting the head.

[oldshurst442]

Wings...this is about the EV infrastructure...in Europe...

....

And yes...If the US would embark on building a 350kW infrastructure in North America. Canada and Mexico would jump on board and we could have a new Industrial revolution...

Edited December 2, 2016 by Drew Dowdell
Removed the political stuff

[oldshurst442]

DOW is up in record high numbers....HA!!!

 

De-regulation in the 1980s by the guy you have in the pic there started a greed on Wall Street that continues on today...

I cringe when I hear anything coming out of Wall Street because I simply don't trust ANYTHING they say...

Ford of Europe and GM of Europe's shares probably went up...which benefits Detroit headquarters...but that is good for Europe's future not America's...

 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Drew Dowdell
removed quoted post that was removed

[G. David Felt]

9 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=174

That is too funny and yet Coral Sea is a dead boat in the history books. Still funny to read.

14,893 charging stations in the US is still nothing to sneeze at!

[A Horse With No Name]

I just hope I can buy an EV 4WD with 42 inch tires because it is getting deep in here...and I am not talking about the level of intellectual discussion...

I wonder if bullshit conducts electricity.....might have to worry about shorting out the batteries....

[A Horse With No Name]

........

Edited December 2, 2016 by Drew Dowdell
Removed politics

[G. David Felt]

16 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I just hope I can buy an EV 4WD with 42 inch tires because it is getting deep in here...and I am not talking about the level of intellectual discussion...

I wonder if bullshit conducts electricity.....might have to worry about shorting out the batteries....

Here are some 4wd EV options for you.

http://newatlas.com/zoomability-zoom-off-road-wheelchair/36082/

This might be more up your road!

https://www.alke.com/4wd-vehicles

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Here are some 4wd EV options for you.

http://newatlas.com/zoomability-zoom-off-road-wheelchair/36082/

This might be more up your road!

https://www.alke.com/4wd-vehicles

Neat.....I love EV's!  And thank you for bringing us back on topic, sir. You have my respect!

[G. David Felt]

26 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Neat.....I love EV's!  And thank you for bringing us back on topic, sir. You have my respect!

EV devices like these 4wd chairs can really sell people on the whole EV movement IMHO.

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, dfelt said:

EV devices like these 4wd chairs can really sell people on the whole EV movement IMHO.

One thing in the favor of VV's is we have not seen a reversal of demand, rather demand has grown steadily and persistently.  Better a slow, rational transformation than everyone on the band wagon all at once and then the technology disappoints.

Personal computers were slow to catch on at first also....!

[G. David Felt]

Amazing what one can see on this site for home and public charging places. Especially in far north Canada.

http://www.plugshare.com/ 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

....

http://newatlas.com/ev-charging-station-network-united-states/44522/

 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Drew Dowdell
Removed politics

[oldshurst442]

15 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

http://newatlas.com/ev-charging-station-network-united-states/44522/

 

..... 

 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Drew Dowdell
Removed politics and some other off topic stuff

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

olds,

I had three prior posts in this thread, two of which directly related to the topic, one made fun of you and your joke, and you sir, are the one who is all over the map with your topics.

 

And FYI, since YOU went there and YOU brought it up, Detroit is turning out to be the comeback story of the decade.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

And olds, other than focus on me, you did not even comment on my link, that clearly debunked your theory that ONLY Eu cares about EV.  The link clearly proved you wrong.

 

Do Canadians even get news up there? Or are you guys like North Korea???

[oldshurst442]

......

Comeback of the decade?

Detroit is Toronto's suburb...

Get outta here with that garbage you spew including your misdirections that Americans will buy EVs when EVs will have no compromises...

1. EVs NOW have no compromises.

2. The rest of the world sees that....Americans like yourself like to have a blindfold across your eyes...

 

OH...YOUR links are usually full of shyte!!!

 

PS... The focus is NOT on you....

YOU want it to be on you....

Like I said....getta outta here with that crap that you spew regarding EVs, Europe, Canada and your whining that I am focusing on you..

YOUR  message is flawed, full of shyte and flat out lies....

Edited December 2, 2016 by Drew Dowdell
Removed politics

[oldshurst442]

WINGS....

From the article from the OP

Quote

Europe is not standing by waiting for Tesla or American Auto companies to drive EV auto's. Instead Europe has built the following consortium of Auto companies who have all chosen to contribute an equal amount to building the next generation charger network. VW, GM, BMW, Daimler, FORDFCA, Hyundai, Volvo and Jaguar Land Rover have choosen to build 400 locations over the next 3 years that will sense and charge up to 350 kW in the period of a quick Coffee break.

 

There is a message there....

Its there for you .... to decipher...

GM and Ford have decided to spend money on European soil for this....

Good luck with the slogan that says something about making something or other great again...

 

Wings...I dont know where the phoque YOU get YOUR info from....

All the Nordic European nations including Germany are gonna ban the sale of gasoline engined cars in the next 20-30 years...

Paris, France is where all this started out in a treaty that many countries signed....California as a State agrees...1-2 years ago...

Toyota itself has said it will stop producing gasoline powered cars in 20-30 years from now....

 

I dont know what your link says, quite frankly I dont give a damn....

My info can be googled at any time....feel free to do so..

EVs are THE thing going forward....

Its funny as Ford and GM also thinks that....but in Europe only....

America is starting to become ass backwards as Europe and Greece once were...

Not so much in Canada though....

Well....Western Canada is a toss up...

There are a lot of Tories down that way though, explains a lot!

Edited December 2, 2016 by Drew Dowdell
Removed politics

[oldshurst442]

Quote

sense and charge up to 350 kW in the period of a quick Coffee break.

 

So much for your compromised EV theory, huh Wings?

So...when will Americans start buying EVs?

And Ford and GM will help build that network in Europe...

Wings, you are one funny guy....

Edited December 2, 2016 by oldshurst442

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

The focus is not on you wings.

 

LOL

[oldshurst442]

Just now, Wings4Life said:

The focus is not on you wings.

 

LOL

Its not....its YOUR message that YOU keep on pounding....

 

LOL

 

So....riddle me this Batman.

Any rebuttals or are you gonna laugh out loud whining your name was mentioned because YOUR message is stupid?

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

My points were clearly made and I stand by them.
I don't suffer crazy talk rants. Sorry.

[oldshurst442]

 

...................
 

Quote

 

sense and charge up to 350 kW in the period of a quick Coffee break.

 Kinda removes all your theories about the whole matter really.

Irony, the company you work for will help Europe with all that crazy EPA stuff and any compromises EVs have...but the US will have to wait because the US is sooooo ahead of the curve here...

As for the rest...you brought the heat unto yourself. No crazy talk, huh?

 

LOL

 

 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Drew Dowdell
removed quoted post that was removed

[A Horse With No Name]

He's just upset that Ohio state beat the team from the mistake on the lake, Michigan.....

13 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Its funny... as per the OP and the article..your #1 is already a non issue...
 

 Kinda removes all your theories about the whole matter really.

Irony, the company you work for will help Europe with all that crazy EPA stuff and any compromises EVs have...but the US will have to wait because the US is sooooo ahead of the curve here...

As for the rest...you brought the heat unto yourself. No crazy talk, huh?

 

LOL

 

 

There is no actual warranted argument against EV's in anything posted by the individual, don't even bother to engage. 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Drew Dowdell
removed quoted post that was removed

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

16 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

It goes to show you how the rest of the planet seems to want to embrace electricity while us in North America are dragging our feet.

My quote clearly proved you wrong, American industry is also making a push toward electricity.

And I stand by my remark, that when EV's are not severely limited and expensive, then Americans will start buying them. Last I looked, that is not the case.  We can't tow our boats and trailers and large SUV's with a Bolt or Tesla S, and we also can't afford what little there is available.

Does that response really warrant a rant from you olds?

[oldshurst442]

10 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

My quote clearly proved you wrong, American industry is also making a push toward electricity.

And I stand by my remark, that when EV's are not severely limited and expensive, then Americans will start buying them. Last I looked, that is not the case.  We can't tow our boats and trailers and large SUV's with a Bolt or Tesla S, and we also can't afford what little there is available.

Does that response really warrant a rant from you olds?

That is your response?

Not every red blooded American has a boat or trailer...

In fact, most Americans dont enjoy that life style...

Actually, most Americans could benefit GREATLY  from DAILY DRIVING  a PURE EV...

Its not as if red blooded Americans go to the Hamptons DAILY with their boats...

If a red blooded American could own a boat, a red blooded American could own a SUV of some sort as a SECOND car to tow said boat...in fact, MANY red blooded Americans own MULTIPLE cars...owning a pure EV as a primary car wont affect the red blooded American Dream lifestyle...

Sorry Wings...try again....because this logic you have put forth does not pass muster...just poor excuses to not want to adapt to what is happening...

 

 

[oldshurst442]

So much for the pioneering spirit of those first Americans trying to colonize the West....

So much for the pioneering spirit of Henry Ford....

So much for Wings being Greek.

Archimedes is rolling in his grave hearing Wings' excuses.....

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Logic olds?

I did not define the logic of American tastes for large, roomy, comfortable trucks, SUV's, 4WD's, minivans, etc., that is just how it is......but I do happen to enjoy it and participate in it, here in America.  And as long as gas is cheap and quick and easy and everywhere, we will continue to do so.  

Today, a $30K Focus EV, $40K Bolt EV and $100K S or X all have the same thing in common; severe limitations and restrictions for daily use and they don't generate any profits for their manufacturers.  Tomorrow, that may change, to what degree nobody knows and I can't speak for all automakers, but Ford is going balls deep investing and improving in ALL electrification, as well as other propulsion options, as well as traditional ICE as well as infrastructure, blah blah blah.  As any responsible full line automaker should.  What spoils my feta, is comments about how North America is dragging our feet, when we clearly are not.  

26 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

So much for the pioneering spirit of those first Americans trying to colonize the West....

So much for the pioneering spirit of Henry Ford....

So much for Wings being Greek.

Archimedes is rolling in his grave hearing Wings' excuses.....

Can't wait to hear you say this is not about me again.

[ocnblu]

So much daydreaming in here. 

[oldshurst442]

5 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

Logic olds?

I did not define the logic of American tastes for large, roomy, comfortable trucks, SUV's, 4WD's, minivans, etc., that is just how it is......but I do happen to enjoy it and participate in it, here in America.  And as long as gas is cheap and quick and easy and everywhere, we will continue to do so.  

Today, a $30K Focus EV, $40K Bolt EV and $100K S or X all have the same thing in common; severe limitations and restrictions for daily use and they don't generate any profits for their manufacturers.  Tomorrow, that may change, to what degree nobody knows and I can't speak for all automakers, but Ford is going balls deep investing and improving in ALL electrification, as well as other propulsion options, as well as traditional ICE as well as infrastructure, blah blah blah.  As any responsible full line automaker should.  What spoils my feta, is comments about how North America is dragging our feet, when we clearly are not.  

Can't wait to hear you say this is not about me again.

It aint...

Its about YOUR inability to accept change and YOU trying to DETRACT with lame excuses..

Archimedes is Greek.

So are you.

Archimedes was ballsy.

YOU are not.

GIVE ME A PLACE TO STAND AND A LEVER LONG ENOUGH AND I WILL MOVE THE WORLD!

There is a message there for YOU to decipher. Dont cry about it. Argue like how we Greeks argue. With logic.

Logic. A Greek word AND thought process...

 

The American people that have your thought process have lost that pioneering spirit they once had.

Like Mr. Horse said, people like you want the future, but dont want to work at it...

An infrastructure NEEDS to be put into place....

When the horseless carriage was first  made in the late 1880s and continued on into the 1900s, there was no infrastructure for it.

THAT did not matter as humans at THAT point in time still lived like Archimedes lived...

Today though, the automobile and the computer has altered our lives a lot.

If an electric infrastructure is NEVER to be put into place, the EV will NEVER take flight as too many people like yourself who have hidden biases AGAINST the EV will ALWAYS detract with FALSEHOODS...

This argument AINT about YOU personally. But it IS about YOUR blatant LIES!!!

Stop lying!

Edited December 2, 2016 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

12 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

And olds, other than focus on me, you did not even comment on my link, that clearly debunked your theory that ONLY Eu cares about EV.  The link clearly proved you wrong.

 

Do Canadians even get news up there? Or are you guys like North Korea???

Ad hominm is not a form of argument, please embrace your inner Greek and engage in rational debate.

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

So much daydreaming in here. 

 

Enjoy the Monkeys on a Friday morning...I am enjoying watching the monkeys fling poo in this thread....

6 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

So much for the pioneering spirit of those first Americans trying to colonize the West....

So much for the pioneering spirit of Henry Ford....

So much for Wings being Greek.

Archimedes is rolling in his grave hearing Wings' excuses.....

Agreed...!

[A Horse With No Name]

6 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

That is your response?

Not every red blooded American has a boat or trailer...

In fact, most Americans dont enjoy that life style...

Actually, most Americans could benefit GREATLY  from DAILY DRIVING  a PURE EV...

Its not as if red blooded Americans go to the Hamptons DAILY with their boats...

If a red blooded American could own a boat, a red blooded American could own a SUV of some sort as a SECOND car to tow said boat...in fact, MANY red blooded Americans own MULTIPLE cars...owning a pure EV as a primary car wont affect the red blooded American Dream lifestyle...

Sorry Wings...try again....because this logic you have put forth does not pass muster...just poor excuses to not want to adapt to what is happening...

 

 

I think the best response here is Greek in nature..avoid false dichotomies.  Why can't we have both cool electric vehicles and cool ICE vehicles?

Dfelt loves his Trailblazer SS and his Escalade, Suavailant wants a large luxury car, I raced cars for years, was involved with the SCCA and the Porsche Club of America, among others...worked as a pit crew member of a race team...Drew has a vintage Olds Torando...the people here who advocate for electrics also love internally combustive machines just fine.

Give me a 49 mercury, please!

Not to mention that I want a WRX for my next car, not exactly a  Tesla 3 or a Prius....

[A Horse With No Name]

5 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

 

I did not define the logic of American tastes for large, roomy, comfortable trucks, SUV's, 4WD's, minivans, etc., that is just how it is......but I do happen to enjoy it and participate in it, here in America.  And as long as gas is cheap and quick and easy and everywhere, we will continue to do so.  

Today, a $30K Focus EV, $40K Bolt EV and $100K S or X all have the same thing in common; severe limitations and restrictions for daily use and they don't generate any profits for their manufacturers.  Tomorrow, that may change, to what degree nobody knows and I can't speak for all automakers, but Ford is going balls deep investing and improving in ALL electrification, as well as other propulsion options, as well as traditional ICE as well as infrastructure, blah blah blah.  As any responsible full line automaker should.  What spoils my feta, is comments about how North America is dragging our feet, when we clearly are not.  

 

See, just when I am convinced this thread is going to be a cesspool of infinite depth you go and write something I would upvote by a hundred if I actually could.

Please see my above comments....this is not about either or....

Still, you touch on a really critical point.  This goes back to the pride in Ford discussion we had in the election thread and the corporate leadership and culture discussion we had in another thread.  Our domestic automakers both have really good corporate ethics, and are building fantastic products.

Part of corporate ethics is building products people actually want, and GM and Ford are both doing that more so than they have at any time since the early 1970's IMHO.  Building products people actually want to buy is part of the Ford/GM obligation to stockholders, customers, vendors, employees, the people that came before the current people and built the legacy of both corporations....and they are fulfilling this obligation in spades.

But resting on our laurels would also be morally wrong IMHO.  I am very pleased, and have been openly and publicly in support of....both the effort of GM and Ford in regards to electrification.

And it is not just in Electrics that our domestics are leading...

https://www.thehenryford.org/visit/ford-rouge-factory-tour/highlights/living-roof/

Something Ford did that I was very impressed with....

And good luck to the Redwings, my friend/adversary from north of the border...!  Have a fantastic weekend.

 

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I think the best response here is Greek in nature..avoid false dichotomies.  Why can't we have both cool electric vehicles and cool ICE vehicles?

Dfelt loves his Trailblazer SS and his Escalade, Suavailant wants a large luxury car, I raced cars for years, was involved with the SCCA and the Porsche Club of America, among others...worked as a pit crew member of a race team...Drew has a vintage Olds Torando...the people here who advocate for electrics also love internally combustive machines just fine.

Give me a 49 mercury, please!

I dont know why the detractors are sooooo negative about this whole thing.

All @ocnblu has to say is that some of us are dreamers...yet the irony is that some far off lands are making that dream come true.

Making his statement false and at the same time making that statement about him being a dreamer....

How?

Well, if a dream is worked hard at to become a reality, it aint a dream anymore, its reality...

And if a detractor like @ocnblu is soooooo not wanting to change and THAT is his dream so things stay the same, but they wont, and all signs point that EVs ARE the future, then in turn HE becomes the dreamer...

Its quite deep!

This man dreamt a little dream, and he too had detractors. They called him a dreamer...

[A Horse With No Name]

People are inherently afraid of change, but the safest and most rational thing is to embrace change, as it is part of the world, always has been a part of the world, and always will be a part of the world...

So to embrace change is in essence to be a reality addict, the very thing I love about the ancient Greeks!

 

I would rather imagine than fear....we need to get back to the 1950's and 1960's, when science and change were openly welcomed with confidence...now THAT would make America great again....

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

but Ford is going balls deep investing and improving in ALL electrification, as well as other propulsion options, as well as traditional ICE as well as infrastructure, blah blah blah.  As any responsible full line automaker should.  What spoils my feta, is comments about how North America is dragging our feet, when we clearly are not.  

Yeah but @A Horse With No Name

WHEN Wings argues, he trolls first, THEN he discusses rationally.

I play his game. But I go to his jugular IMMEDIATELY so I could get his HONEST opinion out as quickly as I can.

I like Wings a lot. I just play his game better than he does!

 

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yeah but @A Horse With No Name

WHEN Wings argues, he trolls first, THEN he discusses rationally.

I play his game. But I go to his jugular IMMEDIATELY so I could get his HONEST opinion out as quickly as I can.

I like Wings a lot. I just play his game better than he does!

 

Yes you do...I like him also....there is also no one I dislike at C and G....

...and I might have given a rational response to the Trump thing in his trolling when i posted the democracy now link. He is very selective at what he responds to when presented with counter argument and evidence....

[oldshurst442]

PS: I am VERY proud of those Ancient Greeks. For those very reasons you mentioned.

I LOOOVE YOU AMERICANS just because Americans have those very same Ancient Greek qualities!

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

PS: I am VERY proud of those Ancient Greeks. For those very reasons you mentioned.

I LOOOVE YOU AMERICANS just because Americans have those very same Ancient Greek qualities!

Sadly, we have also inherited some of the narcissism and overly militaristic tenancies of the ancient Greeks as well...

[G. David Felt]

The cool thing is we can all discuss our differences and mostly based on education choose to agree to disagree and still debate our differences.

I for one Love change, live on the bleeding edge of technology and welcome change. I welcome that many of our favorite US auto companies are involved in the future fuel system of auto use in Europe and hope it comes to North America Soon.

I also while loving my petro luxury and go fast auto's have also started to convert my 1994 GMC SLE Suburban. It will become an in wheel hub motor AWD EV SUV. I love the fact that the body style and room inside is what I enjoy, Ultra quiet due to EV powertrain and total confidence in long road trips due to size allowing me to have a large battery pack. When will it be done? Good question, slow but steady for me as I have a wife who finished college and I need to finish paying off her education but it will get done and then I will be driving my GMC Classic, quick, silent and roomy.

Now to research what it would take to make the auto 120Kw which is available all over Seattle for quick fast charging and prep for the future of 350Kw charging.

The future is so fast, silent and green!