Fusion Sport vs MKZ 3.0T, both with 3 season tires

[Stew]

So, Car and driver tested both of these this week. 

Fusion Sport

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-ford-fusion-sport-with-summer-tires-tested-review

MKZ 3.0T AWD

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-lincoln-mkz-30t-awd-test-review

 

The Lincoln was basically 18k more expensive. 

The MKZ was roughly 200 pounds heavier, but even with that it seems the acceleration differences should be more 3 or 4 tenths of the Fusion with it's 75 less HP.  The Lincoln did pull slightly higher G on the skidpad (.93 vs .89), but took an extra foot to stop from 70. 

Honestly, i like the MKZ some better and would pay a few grand premium over the Fusion, but not anywhere near an 18k premium.  Thoughts?

[Drew Dowdell]

The $18k is primarily in the interior materials.  The Fusion sport doesn't feel all that different from a regular old base fusion on the inside.  If your only goal is speed, then go with the Fusion Sport... but if you actually want some luxury materials in your over $33k car, then go with the MKZ.

[ccap41]

For 18k more I would have the Sport and a used Fiesta ST or something. I like it but I couldn't justify 18k more.

[Stew]

I still think 18k is a bit much for better interior materials.  THat said, I could see maybe a 10k difference.  Also, any idea where the extra 200 pounds is coming from?  kinda surprised me especially after seeing the Fusion 2.7 has an iron block and a lighter aluminum block on the Lincoln 3.0t. 

[Drew Dowdell]

25 minutes ago, Stew said:

I still think 18k is a bit much for better interior materials.  THat said, I could see maybe a 10k difference.  Also, any idea where the extra 200 pounds is coming from?  kinda surprised me especially after seeing the Fusion 2.7 has an iron block and a lighter aluminum block on the Lincoln 3.0t. 

Better sound deadening... better leathers... better carpet.  It does start to add up. 

As for the $18k, it all depends on where you're coming from.  If Lincoln wants to coax peoples' ES350s out of their cold dead hands, then they need the interior materials do to it.   Though I find the interior of the ES so bad these days that even a Fusion Platinum could do it if those same people would get over the badge. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Better materials?

There is much more than that.

[Drew Dowdell]

5 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Better materials?

There is much more than that.

Over a Fusion Sport? What else would add to the cost besides interior materials and engine block metal type? They both use a CCD suspension, same AWD system (I see nothing about the MKZ getting the twinster). 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

26 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Over a Fusion Sport? What else would add to the cost besides interior materials and engine block metal type? They both use a CCD suspension, same AWD system (I see nothing about the MKZ getting the twinster). 

Drew, 

the difference between base MSRP Sport AWD and MKZ 3LT AWD is exactly $10K.  That money gets you a much different car. warranty, power, dealership experience, and yes material quality, sound deadening, etc.

 

Any differences past that depends on what is added, but clearly you must know that technology packages, big moon roofs, etc. all add great cost. That's not a Lincoln thing either.  

Edited October 26, 2016 by Wings4Life

[Drew Dowdell]

Ah that makes sense. I didn't look at the two cars to look at an apples to apples comparison. $10k is a much more reasonable difference.

[ccap41]

8 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Ah that makes sense. I didn't look at the two cars to look at an apples to apples comparison. $10k is a much more reasonable difference.

+1 (because I used all of mine up)

[oldshurst442]

Fusion Platinum or Fusion Sport for me.

For a Lincoln sedan...Id really spend the money on a much more refined Lincoln ride, the Continental.

And Id have the real Continental fascia rather than the make-shift one on the MKZ...

The Fusion fascia is pretty and high end looking enough for my tastes...there is no need to spend the extra cash on the MKZ. The interior material differences...irrelevant for me.

Like I said, the Continental is where Id look for the high end interior...

Kinda like the 2015 Chevy Impala versus the 2015 Buick Lacrosse...Id rather the Impala then over the Lacrosse.

 

 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

10 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Fusion Platinum or Fusion Sport for me.

For a Lincoln sedan...Id really spend the money on a much more refined Lincoln ride, the Continental.

And Id have the real Continental fascia rather than the make-shift one on the MKZ...

The Fusion fascia is pretty and high end looking enough for my tastes...there is no need to spend the extra cash on the MKZ. The interior material differences...irrelevant for me.

Like I said, the Continental is where Id look for the high end interior...

Kinda like the 2015 Chevy Impala versus the 2015 Buick Lacrosse...Id rather the Impala then over the Lacrosse.

 

 

 

I would also take the Impala.  It is a much more athletic looking car.

Edited October 27, 2016 by A Horse With No Name
Clarifitcation

[ykX]

Lincoln looks very awkward to me.  Not fun of the design language at all.

[A Horse With No Name]

13 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

Drew, 

the difference between base MSRP Sport AWD and MKZ 3LT AWD is exactly $10K.  That money gets you a much different car. warranty, power, dealership experience, and yes material quality, sound deadening, etc.

 

Any differences past that depends on what is added, but clearly you must know that technology packages, big moon roofs, etc. all add great cost. That's not a Lincoln thing either.  

As much as it pains me to have to agree with you and as much as I am not a Lincoln fan, I really  will agree here. For what it is, they did a really nice job with the MKZ  in terms of material quality and features.

Still would buy an IS 200 or IS 350 over the Lincoln, but I will give them credit where credit is due.

And while I would probably buy an Acura product over a Lincoln for handling and other things I like, the Lincoln product Lineup does a much better job than Acura at feeling upscale and being pleasant to live with.

So I will pick Lincoln out of the two choices...now leaving my word processor to wash my mouth out with soap after saying that but yes, I would take the Lincoln!

3 minutes ago, ykX said:

Lincoln looks very awkward to me.  Not fun of the design language at all.

There are a lot of things about the Lincoln lineup I do not like at all. See my above comment about Lexus.

Edited October 27, 2016 by A Horse With No Name
Spelling

[Stew]

I think those prices were comparing loaded to loaded.  Ok, looking at both sites, there is roughly a 9600 dollar difference between the MKZ select 500A (cheapest with the 3.0TT/AWD).  That does not include enhanced safety features, moonroof, or adaptive cruise on either.  The basic features seem pretty comparable.    I suppose the major differences are more power, better materials, and doesn't the MKZ get the RS torque vectoring rear diff?  I see major discounts on the MKZ in the near future. 

 

I also think the front fascia looks pretty tacked on on the MKZ, the 13-16 one seemed more integrated. 

[Stew]

So, which is more "magnetic?" 

 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

I like the Lincoln more. 

[Stew]

5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I like the Lincoln more. 

I am kind of torn.  i like the sportiness of the Fusion, but I also like the Elegance of the Lincoln.  Hmmmmm.  now jumping up to the reserve and adding the spot package to the MKZ, then of course you are 50k in and still missing he sunroof and safety options, but still.  Also realizing that is what it takes o get the sportier suspension and torque vectoring. 

Edited October 27, 2016 by Stew

[Stew]

i just noticed something in the C&D article that really irks me about the sport package lincoln.  if you are going to bother with direction wheels, you really need to have different ones for each side so one side isn't going BACKWARDS!  I hate that and it is a big pet peeve with more than just this car. 

[Drew Dowdell]

19 minutes ago, Stew said:

I am kind of torn.  i like the sportiness of the Fusion, but I also like the Elegance of the Lincoln.  Hmmmmm.  now jumping up to the reserve and adding the spot package to the MKZ, then of course you are 50k in and still missing he sunroof and safety options, but still.  Also realizing that is what it takes o get the sportier suspension and torque vectoring. 

I"m not a sporty kinda guy.  I like my posh leather chair, I like my quiet, I prefer stately elegance, but when I want to go somewhere, I want to get there fast.  Grace, Space, Pace.

[Stew]

5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I"m not a sporty kinda guy.  I like my posh leather chair, I like my quiet, I prefer stately elegance, but when I want to go somewhere, I want to get there fast.  Grace, Space, Pace.

I certainly understand that.  Something else, i hope the next en MKZ gets and interior more akin to the Continentals.  I am honestly liking that car more and more. 

[A Horse With No Name]

30 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I"m not a sporty kinda guy.  I like my posh leather chair, I like my quiet, I prefer stately elegance, but when I want to go somewhere, I want to get there fast.  Grace, Space, Pace.

I am getting less sporty as I get older. maybe I am an idiot (no maybe about that in many peoples minds) but i am not sure why all car makers seem to want to sell upscale sedans as "Sport Sedans?"

Certainly even a base WRX or a stripper GTI S is more sporty than most sport sedans in terms of driving dynamics and overall feel. At least in my mind.

[cp-the-nerd]

1 hour ago, Stew said:

i just noticed something in the C&D article that really irks me about the sport package lincoln.  if you are going to bother with direction wheels, you really need to have different ones for each side so one side isn't going BACKWARDS!  I hate that and it is a big pet peeve with more than just this car. 

You're overlooking a huge problem with that: when you rotate the tires, you'll end up with two different wheels on one side of the car. THAT would look ridiculous.

[Stew]

6 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:

You're overlooking a huge problem with that: when you rotate the tires, you'll end up with two different wheels on one side of the car. THAT would look ridiculous.

True, but i think they shouldn't do them at all if they aren't going to make them match.  just a pet peeve i guess.  Oddly enough Ford was making correctly orientated wheels on each side back in 93 with the Cobra and Thunderbirds, no idea what happened. 

[cp-the-nerd]

3 minutes ago, Stew said:

True, but i think they shouldn't do them at all if they aren't going to make them match.  just a pet peeve i guess.  Oddly enough Ford was making correctly orientated wheels on each side back in 93 with the Cobra and Thunderbirds, no idea what happened. 

It's different with cars like the Cobra that have different size rears vs fronts, tire rotations aren't the same.

[Stew]

2 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:

It's different with cars like the Cobra that have different size rears vs fronts, tire rotations aren't the same.

93 Cobra didn't have staggered tires i am pretty sure, but then even the most basic T-Bird LX with direction wheels had different ones for each side. 

[A Horse With No Name]

49 minutes ago, Stew said:

93 Cobra didn't have staggered tires i am pretty sure, but then even the most basic T-Bird LX with direction wheels had different ones for each side. 

I believe you are correct in this.

[Drew Dowdell]

53 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:

It's different with cars like the Cobra that have different size rears vs fronts, tire rotations aren't the same.

You would just do the same kind of tire rotation on the MKZ with what @Stew is suggesting.

[ccap41]

2 hours ago, cp-the-nerd said:

You're overlooking a huge problem with that: when you rotate the tires, you'll end up with two different wheels on one side of the car. THAT would look ridiculous.

lol You guys..aren't right.. Lay them all flat on the ground and they all are the same wheel. They will be different on both sides of the vehicle but you will never notice the difference rotating them.

This is a less exaggerated wheel but the same thing is going on here.

 

Edited October 27, 2016 by ccap41

[Drew Dowdell]

No @ccap41 there are definitely directional wheels. 

[ccap41]

No, I understand that. But as you rotate them from one side of the vehicle to the other they won't look funny. They will match the wheel that is already there. All 4 wheels are the same.

I also never said there weren't directional wheels.. I even posted a picture OF directional wheels.

Edited October 27, 2016 by ccap41

[Drew Dowdell]

6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

No, I understand that. But as you rotate them from one side of the vehicle to the other they won't look funny. They will match the wheel that is already there. All 4 wheels are the same.

I also never said there weren't directional wheels.. I even posted a picture OF directional wheels.

Ah okay, I misunderstood you.

[Stew]

47 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

lol You guys..aren't right.. Lay them all flat on the ground and they all are the same wheel. They will be different on both sides of the vehicle but you will never notice the difference rotating them.

This is a less exaggerated wheel but the same thing is going on here.

 

At least with that wheel it isn't so noticeable, but would still drive me nuts haha.  If i ever got an MKZ with the performance package or that black label edition, i would have to get aftermarket rims to keep my own sanity intact lmao. 

[Stew]

Not 17s, but still.....

[cp-the-nerd]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

lol You guys..aren't right.. Lay them all flat on the ground and they all are the same wheel. They will be different on both sides of the vehicle but you will never notice the difference rotating them.

This is a less exaggerated wheel but the same thing is going on here.

Hold up, you're misunderstanding me.

Like you described, Stew's pet peeve is that 4 identical directional wheels will go in opposite directions on each side of the car. His solution is having two pairs of directional wheels that are the opposite design so the appearance is identical from either side.

I just pointed out that two sets of directional wheels would make tire rotations a pain in the ass, because you have to avoid putting two opposite designs on the same side.

[Drew Dowdell]

Oooo I like that all blacked out one.

[ccap41]

16 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:

Hold up, you're misunderstanding me.

Like you described, Stew's pet peeve is that 4 identical directional wheels will go in opposite directions on each side of the car. His solution is having two pairs of directional wheels that are the opposite design so the appearance is identical from either side.

I just pointed out that two sets of directional wheels would make tire rotations a pain in the ass, because you have to avoid putting two opposite designs on the same side.

Oh he WANTS 2 sets of wheels??? Stupid, imo...

I see what you're talking about now, my bad.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, Stew said:

This is one Secy looking car!  

Would never own a low car but I can sure appreciate this beauty.  

[Stew]

27 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Oh he WANTS 2 sets of wheels??? Stupid, imo...

I see what you're talking about now, my bad.

Not 2 full sets of wheels.  2 for the left side and 2 for the right side so theyall point in the corect direction instead of one side being backwards.  They did this at least on 93-96 Thunderbirds and the 93 Cobra.  You can still rotate front to back without messing the look up as all of these do not run staggered tire sizes. 

44 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Oooo I like that all blacked out one.

 

18 minutes ago, dfelt said:

This is one Secy looking car!  

Would never own a low car but I can sure appreciate this beauty.  

She does take well to blacked out look.

[Stew]

Also, there are some tires that are directional and can't be rotated side to side

[ccap41]

Definitely tires. There are a lot of those out there. 

[Frisky Dingo]

Lincoln is high.

 

A few thousand more gets you the best non-hi-po midsize luxury sedan on the market. An A6 3.0T Prestige starts $1,500 more than this, and despite a power deficits performs about the same. And is more than a gussied-up mainstream midsize family sedan with mish-mash styling details.

 

There's no way I'd spend even 50K on one of these things, and judging by how few I see on the road, doesn't look like many others are, either. 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Frisky Dingo

[A Horse With No Name]

4 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Lincoln is high.

 

A few thousand more gets you the best non-hi-po midsize luxury sedan on the market. An A6 3.0T Prestige starts $1,500 more than this, and despite a power deficits performs about the same. And is more than gussied-up mainstream midsize family sedan with mish-mash styling details.

 

There's no way I'd spend even 50K on one of these things, and judging by how few I see on the road, doesn't look like many others are, either. 

Audi has a LOT going for it. Of the three luxury car brands, I like Cadillac, Audi, and Lexus.  Infinity, Acura, Lincoln, BMW all have some pretty serious issues.

Still would not own a European Luxury car out of warranty with a gun to my head, but I would damned sure pick an Audi over a Lincoln or a BMW!

[Drew Dowdell]

2 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Lincoln is high.

 

A few thousand more gets you the best non-hi-po midsize luxury sedan on the market. An A6 3.0T Prestige starts $1,500 more than this, and despite a power deficits performs about the same. And is more than a gussied-up mainstream midsize family sedan with mish-mash styling details.

 

There's no way I'd spend even 50K on one of these things, and judging by how few I see on the road, doesn't look like many others are, either. 

I'd be a lot more comfortable owning a Lincoln outside of warranty than an Audi.

[A Horse With No Name]

34 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'd be a lot more comfortable owning a Lincoln outside of warranty than an Audi.

False dichotomy, in the real world you are not constrained to either poor choice like you are in a C and G dream car garage thread.

I really try not to sound like a hater, but you could not get the keys out of my hands fast enough if I owned either and could get a reasonable trade in value out of it.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

The Lincoln all day and twice on Sunday.

Fusion is nice, and actually has a few exterior styling elements that might edge out the Z.  But overall, exterior and especially interior, there really is no comparison.

And, Lincoln gets you free oil changes for life.  They even come get the car. How can you beat that.

[cp-the-nerd]

3 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Lincoln is high.

 

A few thousand more gets you the best non-hi-po midsize luxury sedan on the market. An A6 3.0T Prestige starts $1,500 more than this, and despite a power deficits performs about the same. And is more than a gussied-up mainstream midsize family sedan with mish-mash styling details.

 

There's no way I'd spend even 50K on one of these things, and judging by how few I see on the road, doesn't look like many others are, either. 

Agreed. This car with the black label interior, 3.0T, and sport package should max out at $50k, not $60k.

It should also have the 2.3T standard, not the Fusion's 2.0T. What provides mediocre acceleration in the Fusion's class is absolutely not befitting of a luxury car. I really thought that should have been a no brainer for this refresh.

[Frisky Dingo]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'd be a lot more comfortable owning a Lincoln outside of warranty than an Audi.

This particular car? Not a chance.

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, Frisky Dingo said:

This particular car? Not a chance.

There aren't any Audis I would own outside of warranty (nor Benz nor BMW for that matter)

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, Frisky Dingo said:

This particular car? Not a chance.

Please do tell more.

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

There aren't any Audis I would own outside of warranty (nor Benz nor BMW for that matter)

Absolutely correct.  Closest I would come is a MINI, and that comes with other issues.