Buick to launch Avenir as high-end sub-brand

[Cmicasa the Great]

DETROIT -- Buick is creating a sub-brand called Avenir to take advantage of consumers’ growing appetite for high-end touches.

Avenir will be Buick’s equivalent of Denali at the GMC brand. It will include larger wheels, a unique grille and premium trim features, among other upgrades.

“Through the first half of 2016, Buick has been the industry’s fastest-growing major international brand, and Avenir is key to future growth and delivering on the high expectations of new customers coming to our showrooms,” Duncan Aldred, Buick’s vice president of global sales, service and marketing, said in a statement today.

“Avenir will be Buick’s signature -- the highest expression of the luxury experiences we’re delivering now and in the future.”

 

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160930/RETAIL03/160939988/buick-to-launch-avenir-as-high-end-sub-brand

Great move.. and I like that this is essentially the same as what GMC does with "DENALI." Now.. what we have will be a legitimate LINCOLN and Lexus fighter, with Cadillac simply moving higher on the ladder

[ccap41]

It seems odd to call it a brand when it's a trim level. Regardless it seems like it has the ability to possibly take Buick to the next level and that's exciting.

"Buick Avenir will be made...as a trim level instead of a car"

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[FAPTurbo]

this muddies Buick's role within GM even more...

i thought buick was supposed to be the near luxury brand and now it has a luxury brand within it that'll sorta compete against cadillac?

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm okay with the idea, but eh on the name.  It just doesn't flow well with the other names in the lineup.  Buick Encore Avenir.... Buick Lacrosse Avenir.... Buick Enclave Avenir....

Denali worked because it was its own high end model first and had unique front sheet metal to make it something "more". 

[ccap41]

12 minutes ago, bigpoolog said:

this muddies Buick's role within GM even more...

i thought buick was supposed to be the near luxury brand and now it has a luxury brand within it that'll sorta compete against cadillac?

Very good point. They might be stealing some of their own customers. Whatever brings in the dollars!

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

It seems odd to call it a brand when it's a trim level. Regardless it seems like it has the ability to possibly take Buick to the next level and that's exciting.

"Buick Avenir will be made...as a trim level instead of a car"

AutoBlog

Clearly it says sub-brand.  Not only that..  Anyone who breaths knows that Denali is a Brand and not only a trim. This will be exactly the same..    

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Clearly it says sub-brand.  Not only that..  Anyone who breaths knows that Denali is a Brand and not only a trim. This will be exactly the same..    

It really depends on how Buick goes about doing it.   If this is just another way of saying "Limited" or "Platinum".... then meh. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, bigpoolog said:

this muddies Buick's role within GM even more...

i thought buick was supposed to be the near luxury brand and now it has a luxury brand within it that'll sorta compete against cadillac?

I thought GMC was supposed to be the near luxury brand of SUV/Trucks,  but here we have it with almost 30%of GMCs leaving the dealership with Denali on the side and producing an extra $10K in profit.  Nothing is muddled,  in fact I would say that the Buick brand's role is even more clear..   To make gobs and gobs of money playing off the back of almost 2 million (Buick/GMC) global sales annually 

[ccap41]

6 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Clearly it says sub-brand.  Not only that..  Anyone who breaths knows that Denali is a Brand and not only a trim. This will be exactly the same..    

What's the difference? It might be a brand but all that it is, a high end trim level like a Lincoln Black Label. Except it will probably be executed better lol.

[Cmicasa the Great]

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It really depends on how Buick goes about doing it.   If this is just another way of saying "Limited" or "Platinum".... then meh. 

My optimistic side says that they will add a nice visual to differentiate the cars enough.  Seriously..   My SLT is only a $400 grille and a $180 worth of chrome molding to be a Denali in looks.  If Avenirs get access to the LF3,  even detuned,  then I think the effort will be worth it 

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, Cmicasa the Great said:

My optimistic side says that they will add a nice visual to differentiate the cars enough.  Seriously..   My SLT is only a $400 grille and a $180 worth of chrome molding to be a Denali in looks.  If Avenirs get access to the LF3,  even detuned,  then I think the effort will be worth it 

If they get access to the better engines, I agree.

What I think this really is, is for China. Buick has clout there and they probably feel that a high end luxury trim of each model will sell well.  3 out of every 4 Buicks sold globally is sold in China.  We're only getting it here as they throw us scraps of what they plan for China... it costs them nothing to slap the same trim pieces on that they've already designed for overseas and charge a giant markup for it. 

I don't have the numbers from this year, but as far as Denali goes, as of last year, just the Denali trim outsold the Lincoln brand. It also outsold Jaguar and Land Rover combined.  So I can really see why GM would want to try and replicate that with Buick.  

[FAPTurbo]

denali was genius because it appeals to people who desire cadillac luxury but don't want to be randomly selected for stop and frisk. 

this move isn't genius because neither the ATS or CTS share the Escalade's notoriety, thus there's no incentive to buy a plusher buick when a comparable cadillac will be similarly priced. 

[G. David Felt]

An interesting thought, those that are in their late 50's early 60's and still think of Cadillac as a Baby Boomer slush mobile, will like Buick having a luxury trim line.

My oldest sister thinks this way and now that she has ordered her Buick Envision, I can easily see her moving up to the Avenir trim level when she goes to get a newer one in 2 years.

[Drew Dowdell]

51 minutes ago, bigpoolog said:

denali was genius because it appeals to people who desire cadillac luxury but don't want to be randomly selected for stop and frisk. 

this move isn't genius because neither the ATS or CTS share the Escalade's notoriety, thus there's no incentive to buy a plusher buick when a comparable cadillac will be similarly priced. 

Selling this in the US is an afterthought.  They are going after the wealthy Chinese here. 

Also, the comparable Cadillac is still going to be more.  A 2017 Lacrosse AWD rollin on 20s and every option box checked is $50k.  An AWD XTS with no options checked is $53k.  The Regal GS Gone Wild is $42k... equip an ATS the same way and you'll be over $47k.

[Cmicasa the Great]

3 hours ago, bigpoolog said:

denali was genius because it appeals to people who desire cadillac luxury but don't want to be randomly selected for stop and frisk. 

this move isn't genius because neither the ATS or CTS share the Escalade's notoriety, thus there's no incentive to buy a plusher buick when a comparable cadillac will be similarly priced. 

First off the Yukon Denali debuted before or simultaneously with the first Escalade.  Second Buick is autonomous.  There is zero suggesting that they are even trying to be a "lower level Caddy." Again this will legitimately put it on the same level as Lincoln,  Acura,  and Lexus (to a degree).  Soft luxury with Cadillac being whole nother level.  Honestly a new Lacrosse with a detuned LF3 would be a waaaaaaay better car than anything the MKZ with 400hp could offer 

[Paolino]

On 9/30/2016 at 11:01 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm okay with the idea, but eh on the name.  It just doesn't flow well with the other names in the lineup.  Buick Encore Avenir.... Buick Lacrosse Avenir.... Buick Enclave Avenir....

Denali worked because it was its own high end model first and had unique front sheet metal to make it something "more". 

Well, Encore and Enclave are French words... as is Avenir... although the meaning behind it isn't really working for me.  I think they should have hired a known designer and had the next version of Joseph Abboud...

[Drew Dowdell]

23 hours ago, Paolino said:

Well, Encore and Enclave are French words... as is Avenir... although the meaning behind it isn't really working for me.  I think they should have hired a known designer and had the next version of Joseph Abboud...

I think they should have just called it Super.

[Paolino]

On 10/4/2016 at 9:19 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

I think they should have just called it Super.

Disagree.  To me, in 2016, "Super" just sounds absurd.  Sometimes you can't go with historical monikers... they just don't work.  I would have rather they took the word "Essence" off their useless LaCrosse Essence trim level and used that to denote a higher level of luxury.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, Paolino said:

Disagree.  To me, in 2016, "Super" just sounds absurd.  Sometimes you can't go with historical monikers... they just don't work.  I would have rather they took the word "Essence" off their useless LaCrosse Essence trim level and used that to denote a higher level of luxury.

I could go with that one also... I just think Avenir doesn't mean anything to Americans and sounds overly pretentious

[Paolino]

Bump.  Any news on this?  It's been 6 months and we've seen a new LaCrosse, and have a new Regal and Enclave coming out in less than a year.

[Drew Dowdell]

Radio silence so far.   I do know it is supposed to launch in 2018.  Shanghai Auto Show is in just about a month.  Stay tuned.

1 minute ago, Paolino said:

Bump.  Any news on this?  It's been 6 months and we've seen a new LaCrosse, and have a new Regal and Enclave coming out in less than a year.

 

[Paolino]

26 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Radio silence so far.   I do know it is supposed to launch in 2018.  Shanghai Auto Show is in just about a month.  Stay tuned.

 

Well, that'd be a smart place to launch it...

[Cmicasa the Great]

Very interested in what they will do with it. Again.. revisiting the brilliance behind Denali in the sister brand GMC.. Avenir could be a blazing success if done right. Truly the best place to start is interior.. taking them up a notch.. and then onward to MRC, higher HP, special paints, and even nicer wheel options can really add on the content for the customer.. and the profit for GM. 

Remember EACH brand should be a profit center on its own.. having donor platforms and some parts bin should only add to that. Ask Porsche getting VW stuff in its non-911 vehicles.

[Paolino]

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Very interested in what they will do with it. Again.. revisiting the brilliance behind Denali in the sister brand GMC.. Avenir could be a blazing success if done right. Truly the best place to start is interior.. taking them up a notch.. and then onward to MRC, higher HP, special paints, and even nicer wheel options can really add on the content for the customer.. and the profit for GM. 

Remember EACH brand should be a profit center on its own.. having donor platforms and some parts bin should only add to that. Ask Porsche getting VW stuff in its non-911 vehicles.

I'd like the Avenir name to be equivalent to the Platinum trim on Cadillac.  I'd like to see some interesting real wood options, a new leather option, wheels, but I'd also like something more special... make the buyer really feel like they have something special for themselves (not sure what that could be!)

[G. David Felt]

On 10/4/2016 at 6:19 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

I think they should have just called it Super.

Interesting thought, but I not sure you want a Buick CHAO.

That is what Super translates into in Chinese.

http://dictionary.hantrainerpro.com/chinese-english/translation-chao_super.htm

[G. David Felt]

13 hours ago, Paolino said:

I'd like the Avenir name to be equivalent to the Platinum trim on Cadillac.  I'd like to see some interesting real wood options, a new leather option, wheels, but I'd also like something more special... make the buyer really feel like they have something special for themselves (not sure what that could be!)

Agree, I think they need to up their game on the interior.

I wonder if anyone actually ever still thinks about translation of the word into Chinese or any other language?

Avenir translated from French to English means Future!

Future translated to Chinese means wèilái.

Buick LaCrosse wèilái

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Agree, I think they need to up their game on the interior.

I wonder if anyone actually ever still thinks about translation of the word into Chinese or any other language?

Avenir translated from French to English means Future!

Future translated to Chinese means wèilái.

Buick LaCrosse wèilái

 

Who here.. who here is going to go so far as to care what the chinese call it? In china it still means.. future. Perhaps they see the word weilai as "sexy." 

[G. David Felt]

38 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Who here.. who here is going to go so far as to care what the chinese call it? In china it still means.. future. Perhaps they see the word weilai as "sexy." 

I care as I want GM to have well received Global products that have a global name. 

Time to move forward with auto's that people can rally around.

Just saying! 

[Drew Dowdell]

6 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I care as I want GM to have well received Global products that have a global name. 

Time to move forward with auto's that people can rally around.

Just saying! 

I don't think we need global names.  Then we end up with Alpha-Numerics on everything because there are very few names that translate well everywhere.

[G. David Felt]

7 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I don't think we need global names.  Then we end up with Alpha-Numerics on everything because there are very few names that translate well everywhere.

True, I hate the whole alpha numeric thing, but I do think there are universal names that the world for the most part can rally around.

[oldshurst442]

17 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I care as I want GM to have well received Global products that have a global name. 

Time to move forward with auto's that people can rally around.

Just saying! 

In my opinion, only certain cars can have the same global name...

Cars like the Mustang, Corvette, Jeep Wrangler simply known worldwide as...JEEP, Porsche 911 etc...

In other words, cars that have an established identity or are a halo car that will establish an identity for itself and the brand it represents. Buick Riviera or Park Avenue may be an example.

Lacrosse, not so much.

Ill use the Ford Fusion as an example.

Great car.

Its a Mondeo in Europe and its a Fusion in North America.

That specific car does its own thing in Europe while having another persona in North America and FoMoCo is not tied down to make the same car with the same name do the same thing in two different markets.

A Mondeo could live as a Mondeo in Europe without EVER having to be a Fusion in Europe while vice versa for the Fusion in North America while still being the same car underneath...

What is in a name you ask?

Well, Ford has the Mustang, you tell me what is in a name!!!

The Mondeo has a following in Europe that differs the following that a Fusion has in North America while the Mustang has defined FoMoCo for a long time....that is the differernce a name makes...

That and what @Drew Dowdell said about alphanumerics...

Edited March 22, 2017 by oldshurst442

[Cmicasa the Great]

57 minutes ago, dfelt said:

True, I hate the whole alpha numeric thing, but I do think there are universal names that the world for the most part can rally around.

I really think it was the best solution. Going Alpha numeric.. Either that or the world really needs to get with the program, renounce their bullshit heritages and rally behind the only language that matters.. English. And I'm talking American English not that crap from the UK and  Oz. While we are at it kill this religion thing too. Everyone worship one perfect idea of a person.. He already has the ending.. "the Great XvX" to his name. 

Serious as a heart attack 

[G. David Felt]

47 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

I really think it was the best solution. Going Alpha numeric.. Either that or the world really needs to get with the program, renounce their bullshit heritages and rally behind the only language that matters.. English. And I'm talking American English not that crap from the UK and  Oz. While we are at it kill this religion thing too. Everyone worship one perfect idea of a person.. He already has the ending.. "the Great XvX" to his name. 

Serious as a heart attack 

     

[Cmicasa the Great]

serious as a heart attack 

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

serious as a heart attack 

What you should have said is:

you are serious as cancer because (when I say) rhythm is a dancer...

I know the ignore button is on...

But that only makes me MOAR obnoxious making fun of you knowing that my posting style of posting youtube vids annoy the phoque outta you!

Edited March 22, 2017 by oldshurst442

[Paolino]

Seriously, what are the odds I heard this song on the ride home?!

[oldshurst442]

'Cause that is what I do...I create...MAGIC!

@Cmicasa the Great may think he is great.

Everyone  KNOWS IM GREAT!  (I dont have to write it in my name...)

 

[frogger]

I'm more of an "I've got the power" fan myself... Does Avenir state that?

 

 

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

serious as a heart attack 

 Serious as a Heart Attack!

There I fixed the Smiley for you!  

[Robert Hall]

I can't see the name working well in the US...though old names like 'Super' or 'Deluxe' sound retro, not in a good way...too '50s sounding.  At least it's not the overused 'Black Label' or 'Black Series'...maybe something like 'Essence' or 'Ultra' would work, implying premium luxury but subtly.  Though 'Ultra' reminds me of a strip mall cosmetics shop..

[frogger]

Affluenza Edition

 

[Paolino]

On 3/22/2017 at 9:11 AM, dfelt said:

Agree, I think they need to up their game on the interior.

I wonder if anyone actually ever still thinks about translation of the word into Chinese or any other language?

Avenir translated from French to English means Future!

Future translated to Chinese means wèilái.

Buick LaCrosse wèilái

 

I loved the two-tone wood trim in the Escalade Platinum. I'd love to see some creative accent lighting.  I can't tell you how many times people stop me and comment on my Genesis puddle lights saying "Oh, that's so cool!"  I still can't figure out how they get it to be so crystal clear from the tiniest spot under the sideview mirrors...

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, Paolino said:

I loved the two-tone wood trim in the Escalade Platinum. I'd love to see some creative accent lighting.  I can't tell you how many times people stop me and comment on my Genesis puddle lights saying "Oh, that's so cool!"  I still can't figure out how they get it to be so crystal clear from the tiniest spot under the sideview mirrors...

Focused LED Daylight equivalent lights.

I agree that I am ready for auto companies to take the interiors to the next level. No reason to not use the capabilities of LED lighting to do accent lighting and footwell lighting right!

[Paolino]

9 hours ago, dfelt said:

Focused LED Daylight equivalent lights.

I agree that I am ready for auto companies to take the interiors to the next level. No reason to not use the capabilities of LED lighting to do accent lighting and footwell lighting right!

See, this is one thing that bugs me... in the current LaCrosse, all trims get the light pipe accent light running the width of the car... but any additional accent lighting is apparently reserved for the top trim.  I am also bothered that it's difficult to get a lot of safety equipment without going to the top two trims.  Some things I feel should be standard (like blind-spot protection).  Back to the LED lighting, I agree... get creative!

There's no reason Buick couldn't do this... the reactions are incredible, and yes, it's that clear.

http://www.canadianautoreview.ca/images/car_photos/2015-Hyundai-Genesis-3.8-Tech/normal/hyundai-genesis-tech-puddle-light.jpg