Cadillac News: Bits of the Cadillac Escala Concept Will Show Up In Future Models

[William Maley]

If there was one vehicle that was the talk during Monterey Car Week, it would have to be the Cadillac Escala concept. Unlike other concepts that Cadillac has shown during this time, various ideas will appear on future Cadillac models.

"There's a lot of stuff that's being captured here. All of that won't necessarily find itself coming out in one car; it will be spread through the portfolio," said Johan de Nysschen, Cadillac's president to Automotive News.

One of the key items that will be spread around is the Escala's design. Compared to Cadillac's sharp and angular design language, the design on Escala is a complete departure with curves and smooth edges. de Nysschen said production models with this look will arrive in 2019. Automotive News speculates that the next-generation CTS (soon to be renamed CT5) will be the first model to sport the look.

The twin-turbo 4.2L V8 is another part that will be appearing in future Cadillac models. One vehicle that might get it is the current CT6 sedan. When asked, de Nysschen wouldn't give an answer, only saying the brand is considering it for future models.

But what about the Escala itself? If we go back to our original story on Friday, we pulled a quote from the press release made by de Nysschen saying the following,

“Escala is a concept car, but one based upon the unrelenting rise of our product substance. Depending on the development of market segment for large luxury sedans, Escala is a potential addition to our existing product plan.”

Would it take the place of the long-rumored CT8 or sit beside it? No one is quite sure. But de Nysschen did reveal one important detail about the CT8 project. The model is on hold, not canceled as some reports have said earlier in the year. The reason comes down consumers going toward crossovers and SUVs at a quick rate.

"These are precisely the things that we are just saying: "Let's step back a moment and see whether it's just an energy/price thing, or is it a more sustained shake-up?'"

de Nysschen said the brand is looking at various options at the moment such as merging the CT6 and CT8 into one vehicle like the Escala, using a new crossover as the flagship, or doing some combination of the two.

Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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[G. David Felt]

expanded cars should be on hold as they do need to focus on making the product line right and tweaking existing auto's to be best in class.

 

I am also saying it here, If Johan does not see that the industry is changing and that the focus should be on plug-in Hybrids and EV's, they need to cut him loose and bring in a true visionary. Twin Turbo and V10/12 engines are a dying place that has limited future growth besides 1 to 2 generations out at most covering 4-8 years. I would question putting to many resources into old petro technology.

[smk4565]

The 4.2 liter V8 could have been used around 2013 for the ATS-V and the CTS V-sport, perhaps CTS-V as well depending on how they tune it, and Escalade and CT6.  In the 2013-2016 time frame as fuel prices dropped, that V8 could have been good to have.  By 2018 or 2019, only the real high dollar stuff will have a V8, and electric will be growing, so that V8 could be too late.

[Drew Dowdell]

20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The 4.2 liter V8 could have been used around 2013 for the ATS-V and the CTS V-sport, perhaps CTS-V as well depending on how they tune it, and Escalade and CT6.  In the 2013-2016 time frame as fuel prices dropped, that V8 could have been good to have.  By 2018 or 2019, only the real high dollar stuff will have a V8, and electric will be growing, so that V8 could be too late.

Moving the goal posts ahead of time I see....

[smk4565]

Well they needed a twin turbo V8 yesterday, not in 2018.  They will still need one in 2018, there will be luxury buyers that want a V8.  But Electric has to be part of the equation.  The new Model S can do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, you just can't get that out of a V8 or maybe not even a V12 unless the car has no weight to it.  Electric is the high performance future, the V8 might be the cheap performance future, but if Cadillac wants $70-80k for V6 cars, they will want $90-100k for a V8 and you are getting up to Tesla money.

 

And Mercedes faces the same problem, the AMG cars have a loyal following, but the E63 can't keep up with a Tesla, they can hope, exhaust note, chassis tuning and ride/handling with interior appointments wins buyers, but they can't win off speed.  Until they make an electric car with 750 hp, which it seems like they are doing, as the Maybach Vision 6 powertrain is already in development.

[Drew Dowdell]

@smk4565 The electric is already basically here. The CT6-PEV goes on sale in China first (for obvious reasons), but that was clearly where Cadillac's priority was. 

[smk4565]

The CT6 plug in is no match for a Tesla.  The GLE plug-in is closer to a Tesla Model X than a CT6-PEV is to a Model S, and as Mr. T would say, "I pity the fool who races a GLE550e against a Model X, or tries to match it on electric range."  The GLE550e might be the best value hybrid there is, it is like $900 more than the turbo V6 model and has 100 more hp and double the fuel economy

[Drew Dowdell]

12 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The CT6 plug in is no match for a Tesla.  The GLE plug-in is closer to a Tesla Model X than a CT6-PEV is to a Model S, and as Mr. T would say, "I pity the fool who races a GLE550e against a Model X, or tries to match it on electric range."  The GLE550e might be the best value hybrid there is, it is like $900 more than the turbo V6 model and has 100 more hp and double the fuel economy

You always find a way to get your Mercedes plug in somehow.  Benz's only pure electric is the pathetic little SMART and the B-Class only sold in California, they can't compete with a Tesla either. 

With 432 lb-ft of torque, the CT6-PHEV will feel plenty fast.

HP is nearly irrelevant with electric cars, so I don't know why we still look for that number. Tesla's max torque is at ZERO RPM which also means ZERO HORSEPOWER, but it's that fact that make people scream when the car takes off in ludacris mode. 

[smk4565]

479 lb-ft of torque on the GLE550e and S550e.  But I wouldn't call either of them performance cars, even though they move pretty good for what they are.  

If the CT6 plug in is like $70-75,000 it could be a compelling buy.   Likewise that powertrain could make sense on a CTS or large crossover.   But that is just par for the course, many lux brands have plug in hybrids now or will within a year.  The game changer technology is at Tesla, they just haven't been able to scale it out in big numbers yet.

[Drew Dowdell]

Torque moves cars, horsepower sell them. 

Tesla's horsepower ratings are nearly irrelevant. It's their torque ratings that matter.... and that is only going to become more true as more cars get electrified. 

[smk4565]

Yes, but the Tesla P90D has 713 lb-ft and that is now the 2nd most powerful Model S.  Unlikely to find a V8 putting out 750+ lb-ft to compete with that.  Cadillac needs that 4.2 V8 ASAP while there are still buyers who want V8 power and smoothness, and can't afford a $135k Tesla.  But even when you look at Mercedes, BMW and Audi, their mid-size cars have turbo sixes, and most 7-series and A8s are sixes, Q7 is mostly V6, even the GLS is mostly V6.  Only the top dog stuff has V8 power anymore, and in 10 years electric will replace it.   there is opportunity for Cadillac to offer the V8 at the price point a lot of the other guys are selling a V6, that could win buyers in the near term.

[oldshurst442]

*SIGH*

SMK....things are getting fixed at Cadillac.

Yes. Yes. Cadillac bespoked V8s were needed when Northstar was decided to be phased out and should have been replaced then.

Northstar was left on the vine to rot. That was then. This is now.

Using the "corporate" V8 which happens to be THE MOST versatile, MOST lethal, MOST WELL KNOWN V8 on the planet aint a bad move. People that view that as "just a Chevy" engine would never buy a bespoked 4.2 TT V8 Cadillac anyway. Other nitpickings would be found.

Mr. DFELT had the right idea about Electric power.

Yes Cadillac needs to move forward with electric power and with this new 4.2 liter V8.

GM has decent EV technology. Better than any other internal combustion engine automobile manufacturer in my opinion.

Lets be honest. Nobody is better than Tesla. Cadillac does not need to be better than Tesla like Mercedes or BMW or Audi has to be for image. 

The P100 is with us at Tesla.

Porsche could talk a big game but unfortunately for Porsche, money talks and BS walks. And that is true for every internal combustion engine automobile manufacturer at this point in time.

Cadillac has not talked a big EV game so there is no pressure there to be the best unlike the Germans are doing. And so far, other than BMW, they dont even HAVE an EV themselves.

For all we know, Cadillac is probably keeping it hush hush on their EV technology. We do know it exists through Chevrolet....we just dont know how Cadillac will advance it for their vehicles. Speculation is all we have. I think Johan learned from the ELR mistakes.

As far as the Escala goes, like every other Cadillac concept in the last 15 years, its just a styling exercise...I doubt the Hoffmeister kink will make it to production.

[Drew Dowdell]

Don't mind @smk4565 this is just him moving the goal posts. When Cadillac beats his beloved Benz at something, his pivot is now to "oh yea?! well Cadillac isn't as good as Tesla". 

It's really borderline trolling. 

[ccap41]

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The 4.2 liter V8 could have been used around 2013 for the ATS-V and the CTS V-sport, perhaps CTS-V as well depending on how they tune it, and Escalade and CT6.  In the 2013-2016 time frame as fuel prices dropped, that V8 could have been good to have.  By 2018 or 2019, only the real high dollar stuff will have a V8, and electric will be growing, so that V8 could be too late.

Why would they need a V8 to do what the V6 did? This kind of goes against everything CAFE related downsizing. I think we would have liked to HEAR a V8 in the ATS-V but that's nothing more than noises because it isn't like the TT3.6 needed anymore power or tq. 

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The CT6 plug in is no match for a Tesla.  The GLE plug-in is closer to a Tesla Model X than a CT6-PEV is to a Model S, and as Mr. T would say, "I pity the fool who races a GLE550e against a Model X, or tries to match it on electric range."  The GLE550e might be the best value hybrid there is, it is like $900 more than the turbo V6 model and has 100 more hp and double the fuel economy

LOL You're joking, right? Have you heard of these vehicles called the Volt, Prius, or ANYTHING CHEAPER THAN 70k! 

[ccap41]

@Drew Dowdell Holy sh!t, I love that we can do this now! (the @name thing) 

Edited August 24, 2016 by ccap41

[G. David Felt]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Yes, but the Tesla P90D has 713 lb-ft and that is now the 2nd most powerful Model S.  Unlikely to find a V8 putting out 750+ lb-ft to compete with that.  Cadillac needs that 4.2 V8 ASAP while there are still buyers who want V8 power and smoothness, and can't afford a $135k Tesla.  But even when you look at Mercedes, BMW and Audi, their mid-size cars have turbo sixes, and most 7-series and A8s are sixes, Q7 is mostly V6, even the GLS is mostly V6.  Only the top dog stuff has V8 power anymore, and in 10 years electric will replace it.   there is opportunity for Cadillac to offer the V8 at the price point a lot of the other guys are selling a V6, that could win buyers in the near term.

@smk4565 We all know they have a TT V8 coming. This probably will be the last big power engine or next to last as we do not need them no matter how much you keep pounding the drum of "A true luxury auto company has TTV8, V10, V12, etc.. The fact is that Torque moves auto's and plug-in hybrids and pure EVs are coming and the future will be bright with a whole new way of rating engines.

You and every auto magazine / web site out there needs to accept that the days of HP are coming to a close.

Welcome to the 21st century!

[G. David Felt]

19 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Why would they need a V8 to do what the V6 did? This kind of goes against everything CAFE related downsizing. I think we would have liked to HEAR a V8 in the ATS-V but that's nothing more than noises because it isn't like the TT3.6 needed anymore power or tq. 

@ccap41 I agree that we can use smaller size to accomplish larger size. My concern is the whole marketing story about better MPG. I really do not buy it and you can now make that V6 or even a 4 banger sound like a V8, 10 or 12 as the tuning of mufflers is amazing now.

Gonna Call it now, next tuning will be in sound for the Hybrids and EVs. People will want their own unique sound when driving these Electron Pocket Rockets!

[ccap41]

24 minutes ago, dfelt said:

@ccap41 I agree that we can use smaller size to accomplish larger size. My concern is the whole marketing story about better MPG. I really do not buy it and you can now make that V6 or even a 4 banger sound like a V8, 10 or 12 as the tuning of mufflers is amazing now.

Gonna Call it now, next tuning will be in sound for the Hybrids and EVs. People will want their own unique sound when driving these Electron Pocket Rockets!

I honestly don't think it is some marketing ploy. I think it has waaaaay more to do with how the driver drives because if the driver is actually cruising at a certain speed or not flooring it at stop lights you really shouldn't be in the boost and it's almost like a n/a smaller engine. I can't imagine the CAFE regulations would have a loophole to where they can built smaller turbo engines that are just as inefficient as the older, larger n/a ones. That just doesn't make sense. I do think that the way manufacturers are trying to eliminate boost and produce gobs of low end tq is hurting mpg as boost is coming on so early and often now. I actually think a little lag would improve mileage to stay out of the boost for a tad longer. 

Show me a video of a 4 banger sounding like a V8, V10, or V12... 

Edited August 24, 2016 by ccap41

[ccap41]

28 minutes ago, dfelt said:

@smk4565 We all know they have a TT V8 coming. This probably will be the last big power engine or next to last as we do not need them no matter how much you keep pounding the drum of "A true luxury auto company has TTV8, V10, V12, etc.. The fact is that Torque moves auto's and plug-in hybrids and pure EVs are coming and the future will be bright with a whole new way of rating engines.

You and every auto magazine / web site out there needs to accept that the days of HP are coming to a close.

Welcome to the 21st century!

I actually think the half ton trucks are starting to push this. I'm pretty sure the F150 commercials talk up their 420 torques while GM still talks about horsepower in their Silverados/Sierras. 

[smk4565]

7 hours ago, ccap41 said:

LOL You're joking, right? Have you heard of these vehicles called the Volt, Prius, or ANYTHING CHEAPER THAN 70k! 

The plug in hybrid GLE is less than $1,000 more than the turbo V6.  No plug in is $1,000 more than the car it is based off of.  This is like the plug in Prius selling for $500 more than the base car.

[smk4565]

8 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Don't mind @smk4565 this is just him moving the goal posts. When Cadillac beats his beloved Benz at something, his pivot is now to "oh yea?! well Cadillac isn't as good as Tesla". 

It's really borderline trolling. 

What did Cadillac beat Benz at?  Building a twin turbo V8 next year?  Pretty much every vehicle Mercedes makes has a twin turbo V8 option.  

Mercedes has a Tesla problem too because their AMG cars can't run with a Model S, luckily the Model S P100 is $35k more than an E63 but if that price gap closes Mercedes has some trouble because the V8 is never going to beat the electric motor.  Mercedes might be able to win on ride or handling.