Chevrolet News:Chevrolet Bolt Design Has A Lot Of Interior Space, But Is A Bit of Mess In Terms Of Aero

[William Maley]

When it comes to designing a vehicle, comprises must be made. If you want a vehicle to have a sharp profile, that means giving up a bit of interior space and glass area for example. The upcoming Chevrolet Bolt EV is no exception to this.

 

Automotive News reports that designers tasked with designing the production Bolt gave up some aerodynamic efficiency to improve overall interior space. The Bolt has a drag coefficient of 0.32, while the new Toyota Prius has a drag coefficient of 0.24.

 

“It’s a disaster for aero,” said Stuart Norris, lead designer on the Bolt.

 

To compensate for the poor aerodynamics, Norris and his team at GM's South Korea design studio by employing underbody paneling, spoiler, active grille shutters, and even adjusting the size of the A-pillar. Six full-size iterations of various Bolt designs went into the wind tunnel to figure out which tweaks worked.

 

Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

View full article

[ccap41]

Yeah they screwed up the aero drag on this pretty good.

[ocnblu]

Why is this news?  It's still one of the nicest ninnie cars around.  Its brother Volt is its co-nicest.

[ccap41]

Because it should be more efficient than it is.

[ocnblu]

?  It has 200 miles of range.  That's almost half the cruising range my truck has.  What's not to like?

[Guest Howie]

Not great but, eh, the Nissan Leaf also hit 0.32 (according to C&D). The controversial silhouette of the Prius serves a purpose after all.

[smk4565]

Should have a way better aero number than .32.  The Bolt isn't really a great looking car, tall hatchbacks tend not to look that good, so it isn't like they had to sacrifice aero in terms of great looks.  Part of keeping EV range up is also cutting down drag.

[G. David Felt]

Should have a way better aero number than .32.  The Bolt isn't really a great looking car, tall hatchbacks tend not to look that good, so it isn't like they had to sacrifice aero in terms of great looks.  Part of keeping EV range up is also cutting down drag.

Way better looking than the butt ugly i3 car from BMW. that is truly ugly just like the Prius. I take this bolt over the BMW i3 or the prius any day.

[smk4565]

The new Prius is god awful ugly.  When you see it in person there are so many angles, and weird cut lines.

[regfootball]

New Prius is HIDEOUS.

.32 on tall car like Bolt is not bad. Many sedans won't hit that yet. If bolt is a success maybe we'll get a bolt like sedan.

[daves87rs]

New Prius is HIDEOUS.

.32 on tall car like Bolt is not bad. Many sedans won't hit that yet. If bolt is a success maybe we'll get a bolt like sedan.

+1!

[thedriver]

.32 is the same as the 1982 pontiac firebird. Yay for technology and progress!

[smk4565]

Average car is around .30 today,the best ones are around .23 or .24.  Some crossovers are in the .31 to .34 range.

[ccap41]

Should have a way better aero number than .32.  The Bolt isn't really a great looking car, tall hatchbacks tend not to look that good, so it isn't like they had to sacrifice aero in terms of great looks.  Part of keeping EV range up is also cutting down drag.

Way better looking than the butt ugly i3 car from BMW. that is truly ugly just like the Prius. I take this bolt over the BMW i3 or the prius any day.

The Prius' drag coefficient is only 0.24 though. Huge difference.

Tesla Model X is also 0.24!

[ccap41]

New Prius is HIDEOUS.

.32 on tall car like Bolt is not bad. Many sedans won't hit that yet. If bolt is a success maybe we'll get a bolt like sedan.

+1!

2010 Ford Escape's is 0.29(Hybrid - but it was still quite the box compared to the '13+) The '13+ supposedly is 10% better but I can't find any numbers on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient

2013+ Fusions are 0.275

Last gen Mazda6 was 0.27

1992 Camry sedan was 0.32

VW CC is 0.284

2011+ Dodge Durango is 0.33

2014+ Subaru Forester is 0.33

Every sedan nowadays is reaching and below a 0.32 drag coefficient.

Edited August 11, 2016 by ccap41

[Cory Wolfe]

I would have expected better than that. They likely could have squeezed more range out of it with a slipperier shape. 

[ccap41]

Average car is around .30 today,the best ones are around .23 or .24.  Some crossovers are in the .31 to .34 range.

Model 3 is 0.21! That's a slippery car!

[KevinW]

There's a degree of variability in how Cd figures are determined:

http://gm-volt.com/2009/12/04/chevy-volts-coefficient-of-drag-is-0-28-beats-prius-and-insight/

[balthazar]

.32 is the same as the 1982 pontiac firebird. Yay for technology and progress!

The Trans Am was .32, the Firebird, at least the initial '82 with the 'bowling ball' wheels, was .29.

 

Want to go back farther? The '48 Tucker was pegged at .27 (tho they rounded it off at .30), but the rear engine played a part there, not to mention the longer profile.

 

- - - - - 

There's a degree of variability in how Cd figures are determined:

So in the same tunnel, the Volt is better than the Prius by .02.

​I think a lot of OEMs fudge their .cd numbers. How could anyone tell otherwise?

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

 

 

Should have a way better aero number than .32.  The Bolt isn't really a great looking car, tall hatchbacks tend not to look that good, so it isn't like they had to sacrifice aero in terms of great looks.  Part of keeping EV range up is also cutting down drag.

Way better looking than the butt ugly i3 car from BMW. that is truly ugly just like the Prius. I take this bolt over the BMW i3 or the prius any day.

 

The Prius' drag coefficient is only 0.24 though. Huge difference.

Tesla Model X is also 0.24!

 

Who cares, in daily driving that little tiny bit does not make that big of a difference and the looks of the Bolt are way better than the Prius or Tesla IMHO.

[regfootball]

shapes that don't have a good ratio for length to height really suffer.  The Bolt is short.  And it's tall proportion is rather tall.  Extra ground clearance don't help.  It's not a teardrop shape, the rear end is blunt......so .32 for being a barn door is still ok.

 

it ain't this,

 

http://theoldmotor.com/?p=91849

Edited August 12, 2016 by regfootball

[ccap41]

Should have a way better aero number than .32. The Bolt isn't really a great looking car, tall hatchbacks tend not to look that good, so it isn't like they had to sacrifice aero in terms of great looks. Part of keeping EV range up is also cutting down drag.

Way better looking than the butt ugly i3 car from BMW. that is truly ugly just like the Prius. I take this bolt over the BMW i3 or the prius any day.

The Prius' drag coefficient is only 0.24 though. Huge difference.

Tesla Model X is also 0.24!

Who cares, in daily driving that little tiny bit does not make that big of a difference and the looks of the Bolt are way better than the Prius or Tesla IMHO.

Efficiency is noticed daily. Every time you commute somewhere the vehicle's efficiency matters. Bolt looks terrible compared to the Tesla but better than the Prius, but that doesn't really matter as that isn't really the topic and it's opinion based anyway... If the 200 mile range Bolt could claim 220miles, wouldn't that be better? 0.08 isn't a "tiny" amount. If you keep the Bolt within city limits, it won't batter as your speeds will rarely see north of 40mph. Beyond that is where the benefits multiply for an efficient aero package on a vehicle.

[surreal1272]

Should have a way better aero number than .32. The Bolt isn't really a great looking car, tall hatchbacks tend not to look that good, so it isn't like they had to sacrifice aero in terms of great looks. Part of keeping EV range up is also cutting down drag.

Way better looking than the butt ugly i3 car from BMW. that is truly ugly just like the Prius. I take this bolt over the BMW i3 or the prius any day.

The Prius' drag coefficient is only 0.24 though. Huge difference.Tesla Model X is also 0.24!

Who cares, in daily driving that little tiny bit does not make that big of a difference and the looks of the Bolt are way better than the Prius or Tesla IMHO.

Efficiency is noticed daily. Every time you commute somewhere the vehicle's efficiency matters. Bolt looks terrible compared to the Tesla but better than the Prius, but that doesn't really matter as that isn't really the topic and it's opinion based anyway... If the 200 mile range Bolt could claim 220miles, wouldn't that be better? 0.08 isn't a "tiny" amount. If you keep the Bolt within city limits, it won't batter as your speeds will rarely see north of 40mph. Beyond that is where the benefits multiply for an efficient aero package on a vehicle.

Sorry but this whole argument is overblown. 200 miles is still far more than any other EV is this price range.

[balthazar]

Take a look at your vehicle's DIC's; wife's Malibu averages around 30-32 MPH.
Aero isn't playing a part in efficiency except on long highway trips.
IOW; I doubt 0.08 cd is going to boost range from 200 to 220 for 90% of owners.
 

[G. David Felt]

shapes that don't have a good ratio for length to height really suffer.  The Bolt is short.  And it's tall proportion is rather tall.  Extra ground clearance don't help.  It's not a teardrop shape, the rear end is blunt......so .32 for being a barn door is still ok.

 

it ain't this,

 

http://theoldmotor.com/?p=91849

That is a Funky cool car!

[G. David Felt]

 

 

 

 

Should have a way better aero number than .32. The Bolt isn't really a great looking car, tall hatchbacks tend not to look that good, so it isn't like they had to sacrifice aero in terms of great looks. Part of keeping EV range up is also cutting down drag.

Way better looking than the butt ugly i3 car from BMW. that is truly ugly just like the Prius. I take this bolt over the BMW i3 or the prius any day.

 

The Prius' drag coefficient is only 0.24 though. Huge difference.

Tesla Model X is also 0.24!

 

Who cares, in daily driving that little tiny bit does not make that big of a difference and the looks of the Bolt are way better than the Prius or Tesla IMHO.

 

Efficiency is noticed daily. Every time you commute somewhere the vehicle's efficiency matters. Bolt looks terrible compared to the Tesla but better than the Prius, but that doesn't really matter as that isn't really the topic and it's opinion based anyway... If the 200 mile range Bolt could claim 220miles, wouldn't that be better? 0.08 isn't a "tiny" amount. If you keep the Bolt within city limits, it won't batter as your speeds will rarely see north of 40mph. Beyond that is where the benefits multiply for an efficient aero package on a vehicle.

 

I understand what you are saying the the point being made. Yet GM is on Record that the battery in the BOLT is fully charged at 9rhs and you get 25 miles of range per hr charged so in essence they are saying the bolt has a 225 mile range and yet they are understandably saying 200+ till the EPA tests are done and certified and then we get the final number. LG also states that their battery packs have a range of 200 to 250 miles. So this makes me wonder just where the BOLT will end up at and at what speed is the final EPA number certified at. Might seem high to some folks and not the egg shape of Tesla or other experimental auto's but for a tall guy like me at 6'6" tall and wife that said it would be her next car so deposit down at Chevy, I am hoping that height of the BOLT equates to interior space that makes it a true 4 person car for tall people like me with a decent range.

[ccap41]

 

 

 

 

The Prius' drag coefficient is only 0.24 though. Huge difference.Tesla Model X is also 0.24!

 

Who cares, in daily driving that little tiny bit does not make that big of a difference and the looks of the Bolt are way better than the Prius or Tesla IMHO.

 

Efficiency is noticed daily. Every time you commute somewhere the vehicle's efficiency matters. Bolt looks terrible compared to the Tesla but better than the Prius, but that doesn't really matter as that isn't really the topic and it's opinion based anyway... If the 200 mile range Bolt could claim 220miles, wouldn't that be better? 0.08 isn't a "tiny" amount. If you keep the Bolt within city limits, it won't batter as your speeds will rarely see north of 40mph. Beyond that is where the benefits multiply for an efficient aero package on a vehicle.

 

Sorry but this whole argument is overblown. 200 miles is still far more than any other EV is this price range.

 

You're right. Who would want a longer range?    

The trip doesn't have to be long to play a factor in efficiency. Regardless as speeds increased drag takes a multiplication of energy to cut through the air. It would have just been nice if it didn't have to fight nature quite as much.

[G. David Felt]

 

 

 

 

Should have a way better aero number than .32. The Bolt isn't really a great looking car, tall hatchbacks tend not to look that good, so it isn't like they had to sacrifice aero in terms of great looks. Part of keeping EV range up is also cutting down drag.

Way better looking than the butt ugly i3 car from BMW. that is truly ugly just like the Prius. I take this bolt over the BMW i3 or the prius any day.

 

The Prius' drag coefficient is only 0.24 though. Huge difference.

Tesla Model X is also 0.24!

 

Who cares, in daily driving that little tiny bit does not make that big of a difference and the looks of the Bolt are way better than the Prius or Tesla IMHO.

 

Efficiency is noticed daily. Every time you commute somewhere the vehicle's efficiency matters. Bolt looks terrible compared to the Tesla but better than the Prius, but that doesn't really matter as that isn't really the topic and it's opinion based anyway... If the 200 mile range Bolt could claim 220miles, wouldn't that be better? 0.08 isn't a "tiny" amount. If you keep the Bolt within city limits, it won't batter as your speeds will rarely see north of 40mph. Beyond that is where the benefits multiply for an efficient aero package on a vehicle.

 

In thinking about this more, I bet Efficiency matters to about 25-35% of the population in an extreme manner and then another 25-35% will think about it but it will not be that big of an issue when they make a final decision on the auto they drive and the rest will not care at all. 

 

I fall into the last category, I do not care about efficiency as long as I get from point A to B comfortable and rested. If efficiency is there, BONUS. This comes from a guy that owns only full size SUVs with a suburban built out with a performance focused 402 V8 getting 9mpg loaded with people and pulling a trailer or empty just me driving.I love my space, comfort and high seating position. So Efficiency does not matter as to why I could care less about the .08 you are saying is so important.

 

I found this story about trends and changes :http://www.strategyand.pwc.com/perspectives/2015-auto-trends

 

Very interesting reading, I wish they covered the average CD of the auto industry as I think it is much higher than what is being discussed in this thread which would reinforce my feeling that only a small group really care about the CD numbers on an auto.

[surreal1272]

The Prius' drag coefficient is only 0.24 though. Huge difference.Tesla Model X is also 0.24!

Who cares, in daily driving that little tiny bit does not make that big of a difference and the looks of the Bolt are way better than the Prius or Tesla IMHO.

Efficiency is noticed daily. Every time you commute somewhere the vehicle's efficiency matters. Bolt looks terrible compared to the Tesla but better than the Prius, but that doesn't really matter as that isn't really the topic and it's opinion based anyway... If the 200 mile range Bolt could claim 220miles, wouldn't that be better? 0.08 isn't a "tiny" amount. If you keep the Bolt within city limits, it won't batter as your speeds will rarely see north of 40mph. Beyond that is where the benefits multiply for an efficient aero package on a vehicle.

Sorry but this whole argument is overblown. 200 miles is still far more than any other EV is this price range.

You're right. Who would want a longer range?    

Oh good grief drama queen. Of course people want longer ranges but here's the thing that you clearly don't get. At $35k, they are getting longer range than anything else in that price range by long shot. What is so hard to understand about that?

[ccap41]

 

 

 

Who cares, in daily driving that little tiny bit does not make that big of a difference and the looks of the Bolt are way better than the Prius or Tesla IMHO.

 

Efficiency is noticed daily. Every time you commute somewhere the vehicle's efficiency matters. Bolt looks terrible compared to the Tesla but better than the Prius, but that doesn't really matter as that isn't really the topic and it's opinion based anyway... If the 200 mile range Bolt could claim 220miles, wouldn't that be better? 0.08 isn't a "tiny" amount. If you keep the Bolt within city limits, it won't batter as your speeds will rarely see north of 40mph. Beyond that is where the benefits multiply for an efficient aero package on a vehicle.

 

In thinking about this more, I bet Efficiency matters to about 25-35% of the population in an extreme manner and then another 25-35% will think about it but it will not be that big of an issue when they make a final decision on the auto they drive and the rest will not care at all. 

 

I fall into the last category, I do not care about efficiency as long as I get from point A to B comfortable and rested. If efficiency is there, BONUS. This comes from a guy that owns only full size SUVs with a suburban built out with a performance focused 402 V8 getting 9mpg loaded with people and pulling a trailer or empty just me driving.I love my space, comfort and high seating position. So Efficiency does not matter as to why I could care less about the .08 you are saying is so important.

 

I found this story about trends and changes :http://www.strategyand.pwc.com/perspectives/2015-auto-trends

 

Very interesting reading, I wish they covered the average CD of the auto industry as I think it is much higher than what is being discussed in this thread which would reinforce my feeling that only a small group really care about the CD numbers on an auto.

 

Maybe I should clarify.. I don't expect any customer to look up the drag coefficient and buy or not buy based upon it. But They will look at the estimated range and if this same exact vehicle with the same batteries and motors was 5% more efficient..they would see (if the range was 200 miles) 210 mile range. 10 miles isn't a lot but it's reassurance in a world where EVs are 100% bought-into yet.

I do, however, think a lot of these smaller vehicle EVs will be bought with efficiency in mind. I don't think they will quite be a status symbol kind of how the Prius is. Mostly because I just can't see people spending 35k for something this size unless it pays dividends in efficiency(I know there are tax credits but it's easiest to go off of msrp because each individual's tax credits will be different based on income and state).

[ccap41]

 

 

 

 

Sorry but this whole argument is overblown. 200 miles is still far more than any other EV is this price range.

 

You're right. Who would want a longer range?    

 

Oh good grief drama queen. Of course people want longer ranges but here's the thing that you clearly don't get. At $35k(37,500), they are getting longer range than anything else in that price range by long shot. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

Except the Model 3 and it's starting price is $2,500 cheaper.

Edited August 12, 2016 by ccap41

[surreal1272]

Sorry but this whole argument is overblown. 200 miles is still far more than any other EV is this price range.

You're right. Who would want a longer range?    

Oh good grief drama queen. Of course people want longer ranges but here's the thing that you clearly don't get. At $35k(37,500), they are getting longer range than anything else in that price range by long shot. What is so hard to understand about that?

Except the Model 3 and it's starting price is $2,500 cheaper.

Allegedly and it will be out after the Bolt at this point. It also has a whole fifteen miles more range while being so "slippery". Like I said, it is overblown.

[ccap41]

 

 

 

 

Sorry but this whole argument is overblown. 200 miles is still far more than any other EV is this price range.

You're right. Who would want a longer range?    

 

Oh good grief mister super cooler than anybody else in the entire planet. I only wits I could be half as cool as you but I can't because I'm just not.. I'm a grumpy internet guy who argues with any and everybody in every thread that I participate in. Of course people want longer ranges but here's the thing that you clearly don't get. At $35k(37,500), they are getting longer range than anything else in that price range by long shot. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

Except the Model 3 and it's starting price is $2,500 cheaper.

 

Allegedly and it will be out after the Bolt at this point. It also has a whole fifteen miles more range while being so "slippery". Like I said, it is overblown.

 

Wouldn't it be nice to save $2,500 and have a longer range though?

[balthazar]

YO!

 

You think you guys could do a teensy bit of editing and reduce the quoting over & over & over of 3-4-5-6-7-8 previous posts? Especially when they are all from the same day?
I mean, I'm sure you don't need them to continue the conversation, and others don't need to see then repeated a dozen times.

 

Just would really streamline the threads a bunch. Please consider this request in the sincerity it was offered, if you would. Thanks.
 

[surreal1272]

Allegedly and it will be out after the Bolt at this point. It also has a whole fifteen miles more range while being so "slippery". Like I said, it is overblown.

Wouldn't it be nice to save $2,500 and have a longer range though?

Oh good grief. Again, overblown unless you want a car that might come out next year, or the year after, or the year after that, from a company with a limited sales network vs. an established brand that already has a physical car on its way that will end up being the same price or cheaper (given GMs pricing schemes). For most, this alleged savings will not be worth it for so little gain in range.

Edited August 12, 2016 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

On topic : I wouldn't hold my breath RE seeing any amount of Model 3s stickered at $35K….

[G. David Felt]

 

 

 

 

Sorry but this whole argument is overblown. 200 miles is still far more than any other EV is this price range.

You're right. Who would want a longer range?    

Oh good grief drama queen. Of course people want longer ranges but here's the thing that you clearly don't get. At $35k(37,500), they are getting longer range than anything else in that price range by long shot. What is so hard to understand about that?

Except the Model 3 and it's starting price is $2,500 cheaper.

Allegedly and it will be out after the Bolt at this point. It also has a whole fifteen miles more range while being so "slippery". Like I said, it is overblown.

 

Keep in mind, GM said 200+ and then have stated on record that it take 9hrs for a full charge giving you 25 miles per hr of charging, so that would equal 225 miles, 10 miles more than the stated 215 from Tesla. Also since LG has said the battery pack depending on motor configuration can cover 200 to 250 miles, means this is all up in the air till the final EPA testing and certified number.

 

Tesla has also never delivered on schedule or on Spec till a year or two after officially starting production. After all the Tesla S did start out with a much lower range than originally stated and then through software updates got to being able to have 300 mile range again depending on how you drive.

[G. David Felt]

On topic : I wouldn't hold my breath RE seeing any amount of Model 3s stickered at $35K….

Totally agree, I have talked to many coworkers who put their $1K down and all have stated they will be adding the 2nd motor for AWD and the biggest battery pack option. I DO NOT expect the Tesla 3 to sell anywhere below $50K. I expect the average transaction price to be in the mid to upper 50's and that makes the fully loaded Bolt MSRP at $37,500 a bargain with a 225 mile range based on charging info.

[G. David Felt]

For those interested in seeing Drag Coefficient numbers on models since this is up for debate here about the BOLT and other EV numbers.

 

Love this chart! Proves most auto's are far higher than the BOLT CD #.

 

http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_Drag_List

 

Love this Size does matter and yet with that, the Brick, H2 Hummer was a 25.6 versus the Honda Insight 5.1 and yet you look at history before computers and we see auto's with numbers much lower which proves we really have not improved that much.

 

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/automotive-aerodynamics-drag-area-size-matters/

 

Crouse always good read was the Drag Queen story by C&D

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/drag-queens-aerodynamics-compared-comparison-test

[ccap41]

On topic : I wouldn't hold my breath RE seeing any amount of Model 3s stickered at $35K….

The beauty about Tesla's buying system is that you order exactly what you want and don't order what you don't want. So if you really want your 35k Tesla, order it. If you want options, order them. It isn't like walking to a Chevy or Ford dealership or the best example would have been the sub 30k CLA that was never a real thing.

[ccap41]

 

Allegedly and it will be out after the Bolt at this point. It also has a whole fifteen miles more range while being so "slippery". Like I said, it is overblown.

Wouldn't it be nice to save $2,500 and have a longer range though?

Oh good grief gorgeous. Again, overblown unless you want a car that might come out next year, or the year after, or the year after that, from a company with a limited sales network vs. an established brand that already has a physical car on its way that will end up being the same price or cheaper (given GMs pricing schemes). For most, this alleged savings will not be worth it for so little gain in range.

 

So... you don't want the savings or the additional range..? That's fine I you don't and you can justify it however you would like but as of right now the claimed ranges(neither are EPA rated yet) are 200 miles and 215 miles, respectively.

You're assuming a price point when it's been said it'll start at 37,500. Assuming it will be less is just hopeful and nothing more. You have nothing factual to support a lower price...

Edited August 12, 2016 by ccap41

[ccap41]

 

Totally agree, I have talked to many coworkers who put their $1K down and all have stated they will be adding the 2nd motor for AWD and the biggest battery pack option. I DO NOT expect the Tesla 3 to sell anywhere below $50K. I expect the average transaction price to be in the mid to upper 50's and that makes the fully loaded Bolt MSRP at $37,500 a bargain with a 225 mile range based on charging info.

 

It isn't fully loaded at 37,500. Cloth seating.

But, "Chevy Bolt hatchback pricing was announced at $37,500 back in January, though pricing could still fluctuate closer to the car’s winter launch. Standard features include a big 10.2-inch MyLink infotainment system with an EV-specific navigation function, 360-degree cameras, and Wi-Fi. Based on how Chevy positioned the Spark EV, there will likely be another higher-spec trim level priced in the low $40,000 range that will come with safety features like forward collision alert and blind spot assistance, as well as leather."

http://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-3-vs-chevrolet-bolt-know-comparison/

Edited August 12, 2016 by ccap41

[surreal1272]

Oh the horror. They'll give it options!

Now what's the standard equipment on the 3 that hasn't even been spotted in the wild outside of one presentation?

[ccap41]

"Tesla’s semi-autonomous AutoPilot technology will be standard on all Model 3s, as will a full-length glass roof, and a 15-inch center-mounted touch screen display, which functions as both the driver’s instrument panel and infotainment display with navigation, phone and media information."

[William Maley]

Guys, I hate coming into threads and having to clean them because it is devolving into a mess. Don't give me a reason to lock the thread or start handing out points and bans.

Thank you.

[surreal1272]

Guys, I hate coming into threads and having to clean them because it is devolving into a mess. Don't give me a reason to lock the thread or start handing out points and bans.

Thank you.

All I'm asking is that this changing of my words in the quotes needs to stop. Its happened three times on this thread alone and all were done by the same person. It's childish and just a bit condescending.

[G. David Felt]

 

 

Totally agree, I have talked to many coworkers who put their $1K down and all have stated they will be adding the 2nd motor for AWD and the biggest battery pack option. I DO NOT expect the Tesla 3 to sell anywhere below $50K. I expect the average transaction price to be in the mid to upper 50's and that makes the fully loaded Bolt MSRP at $37,500 a bargain with a 225 mile range based on charging info.

 

It isn't fully loaded at 37,500. Cloth seating.

But, "Chevy Bolt hatchback pricing was announced at $37,500 back in January, though pricing could still fluctuate closer to the car’s winter launch. Standard features include a big 10.2-inch MyLink infotainment system with an EV-specific navigation function, 360-degree cameras, and Wi-Fi. Based on how Chevy positioned the Spark EV, there will likely be another higher-spec trim level priced in the low $40,000 range that will come with safety features like forward collision alert and blind spot assistance, as well as leather."

http://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-3-vs-chevrolet-bolt-know-comparison/

 

If so, I hope I can get the leather and other luxury features I want without the nanny stupid idiot devices like the waste of money forward collision alert and blind spot. The blind spot I have come to see as a big distraction constantly blinking in the side mirror on the freeways.

[ccap41]

Totally agree, I have talked to many coworkers who put their $1K down and all have stated they will be adding the 2nd motor for AWD and the biggest battery pack option. I DO NOT expect the Tesla 3 to sell anywhere below $50K. I expect the average transaction price to be in the mid to upper 50's and that makes the fully loaded Bolt MSRP at $37,500 a bargain with a 225 mile range based on charging info.

It isn't fully loaded at 37,500. Cloth seating.

But, "Chevy Bolt hatchback pricing was announced at $37,500 back in January, though pricing could still fluctuate closer to the car’s winter launch. Standard features include a big 10.2-inch MyLink infotainment system with an EV-specific navigation function, 360-degree cameras, and Wi-Fi. Based on how Chevy positioned the Spark EV, there will likely be another higher-spec trim level priced in the low $40,000 range that will come with safety features like forward collision alert and blind spot assistance, as well as leather."

http://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-3-vs-chevrolet-bolt-know-comparison/

If so, I hope I can get the leather and other luxury features I want without the nanny stupid idiot devices like the waste of money forward collision alert and blind spot. The blind spot I have come to see as a big distraction constantly blinking in the side mirror on the freeways.

Oh you know that still will all be in one package that probably has like heated seats or something that you actually really want. But isn't that stuff usually capable of being turned off?

[G. David Felt]

 

 

 

Totally agree, I have talked to many coworkers who put their $1K down and all have stated they will be adding the 2nd motor for AWD and the biggest battery pack option. I DO NOT expect the Tesla 3 to sell anywhere below $50K. I expect the average transaction price to be in the mid to upper 50's and that makes the fully loaded Bolt MSRP at $37,500 a bargain with a 225 mile range based on charging info.

It isn't fully loaded at 37,500. Cloth seating.

But, "Chevy Bolt hatchback pricing was announced at $37,500 back in January, though pricing could still fluctuate closer to the car’s winter launch. Standard features include a big 10.2-inch MyLink infotainment system with an EV-specific navigation function, 360-degree cameras, and Wi-Fi. Based on how Chevy positioned the Spark EV, there will likely be another higher-spec trim level priced in the low $40,000 range that will come with safety features like forward collision alert and blind spot assistance, as well as leather."

http://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-3-vs-chevrolet-bolt-know-comparison/

 

If so, I hope I can get the leather and other luxury features I want without the nanny stupid idiot devices like the waste of money forward collision alert and blind spot. The blind spot I have come to see as a big distraction constantly blinking in the side mirror on the freeways.

 

Oh you know that still will all be in one package that probably has like heated seats or something that you actually really want. But isn't that stuff usually capable of being turned off?

 

Yes in the cadillacs I have driven, I was able to turn it off, but more and more I am seeing the stupid ultra liberals saying it needs to be enforced as it protects everyone and must be on at all times. 

 

I hope we never have to give up the ability to turn some stupid device off.