Musk Says Tesla Model 3 Owners Will Have To Pay To Use Supercharger Stations

[surreal1272]

Time, of course, will tell.

 

IMO, the dawn of the industry is an even worse example to compare to. FAR too different, horses & automobiles, than a gas vs. electric (otherwise functionally identical) automobile.

The tech jump with EVs isn't remotely close to the former. 

 

Of course, at the dawn; electrics (and steam) were initially more popular than gas.

Pay attention to what I'm actually saying though. The similarities between the two are most certainly to do with range and infrastructure (like fuel stations then vs charging stations now for example). I cannot make this any clearer and it is a far more similar deal than to bring up a Mustang like Olds attempted to do.

[balthazar]

But initially, cars never replaced horses- they were discretionary toys or farm vehicles for the most part.

They weren't depended on, people very seldom did long distances, therefore range anxiety was never a wide-spread concern.

 

Tangential factoids : Ford Model T had a range of 200-250 miles. And a Packard made the 1st cross-country trip, in 1903.

 

EVs - in general- have yet to shake the range anxiety reputation (Tesla, perhaps, excluded).

[surreal1272]

You're just making my point Balthazaar but I've said all I'm going to say at this point.

[Suaviloquent]

We don't know what's going to happen. But governments are on board, and civil servants like the LAPD are too happy to oblige. But now it's up to them to figure out why the hell they couldn't consider the much better alternatives available from the home team, or since it's only a lease, consider vehicles like hybrids, because they reduce carbon footprints too.

[smk4565]

Norway has announced a plan to ban sale of cars with an internal combustion engine by 2025.  They won't be the first.  China should do that, their air quality is a joke.  

 

Government mandates will lead to more electrification too.  

 

Electricity is the most readily available power source.  And the batteries will eventually get there, they just aren't there yet.   The horsepower is already there.

[Suaviloquent]

I thought it was time for some story time. For little children. Like me.

 

I'm sure when gasoline cars were recognized for what they were going to become during the post-war boom after the WW1...there was a National imperative, hell government mandate to expand infrastructure for the car, and other mechanical horse driven vehicles. Heck, the tractors and anything with wheels powered by gasoline is a cousin to the car. A bus is like a land dinosaur, family-tree analogy wise. The first plane by the wright bros... it's like the weakling dinosaur-birdies. Huge ass A380s are like Kaijus. 

 

You know, I see these insurance commercials from Bel Air... and it ends like "you trapped a 100 horses in there? You monster, I'll save you mighty steeds!!!"

 

Cars are mechanical horses. Tractors, mechanical oxen. Those horses love to drink gasoline, engine oil... they can consume people and spit out carbon dioxide among other gases they fart, $h! people out as well, as well as other junk that comes with those people. The finest breed of cars like the royalties, must be kept purebred, which is why RR only has one descendant, Bentley. However, for some reason, those at the very top are interbreeding with somewhat lower stature mechanical horses.

 

Cadillac and Lincolns at first were also purebred. But then they interbreed-ed with the wrong mechanical horses, and lost their pedigree. BMW is currently inbreeding. Mercedes is currently evolving, this subset of horses has so many variants. Some are of pedigree. Others have become inbred with a weaker family tree, and are now mongrels. 

 

Cadillac devolved, but now like a horse family put to hard work, multiple generations of being trained... about halfway or so back, is showing signs of becoming one of the finest once more.

 

etc...etc...

 

Electric cars derive nourishment on basically the equivalent like cow's rumination chambers which they have like 4 or 5 something (akin to cells). Electric horses need many more cells though. Hundreds, thousands. Well, there are in some breeds a lot of electric horses, and they are thirsty.

 

In them a chemical reaction happens that adds energy to electrons to make them flow. Man has figured out how to reverse what the rumination chambers aka "cells" do, by putting back energy that was either transferred  more directly to cells via solar energy being harnessed very inefficiently by photovoltaics, then to another mega battery, or indirectly by oxidizing other dead dinosaurs very rapidly such so they release energy in huge "stomachs" that heat up water being digested that is farted at high pressure to some blowing fans that then create a magnetic field which creates a flow of electrons.

 

The first EV's way back when were a branch of the mechanical horses, like chimpanzees to gorillas. However, they could not adapt to the upcoming feeding that mechanical horses would have on the torrent of either fermented, pressed, and aromatic variants of deads dinosaurs. Electrics horses were killed off or just lost habitat like the homo sapien to the Neanderthal. So electric horses died out almost completely. They would live on, barely, either hibernate in museums or plant dormant seeds to perhaps reclaim themselves when the adaptations were right. But suddenly, in just 100 years or so, the mechanical horses...unbeknownst to them - the parasites that control them - humans - are aware the feeding will end - either by nature or by force. Because some of the parasites have changed their own adaptation to survive. Kinda like how SIV is related to HIV. They believe that some want to live off of electric horses, and they believe electric horses have an advantage. While dead dinosaurs can finally satiate the electric horses indiretctly, there is the potential that one day the parasites can feed their horses to live off of the flow of water, wind and collect the energy imparted to the photons of the Sun itself. The Sun is a gold mine, far more plentiful than dead dinosaur. 

 

And the electrics horses themselves? Why are they coming back? Well the so called 'intelligent' parasites would like to think that nature makes adaptations, it evolves, sometimes to progress, sometimes to devolve. Perhaps nature wanted the mechanical horses to have their moment - just prove to the parasites that mechanical horses may one day themselves have to evolve, and they did, when they spawned the first electric horse, the first flying horses. They were weak, but they held promise.

[G. David Felt]

But initially, cars never replaced horses- they were discretionary toys or farm vehicles for the most part.

They weren't depended on, people very seldom did long distances, therefore range anxiety was never a wide-spread concern.

 

Tangential factoids : Ford Model T had a range of 200-250 miles. And a Packard made the 1st cross-country trip, in 1903.

 

EVs - in general- have yet to shake the range anxiety reputation (Tesla, perhaps, excluded).

Balthazar, do you not think EVs will catch on much faster due to state, county and city GOVs going to EV fleets which will introduce more people to driving them and helping to change peoples perception? Tesla I think more than the Prius has changed peoples attitude about EV auto's and I think the BOLT will only increase the notion that I can go electric and ditch the dirty pump for many people. Ease of recharging at home is very appealing to people rather than having to plan to run out and fill up auto's for the week.

[G. David Felt]

I thought it was time for some story time. For little children. Like me.

 

I'm sure when gasoline cars were recognized for what they were going to become during the post-war boom after the WW1...there was a National imperative, hell government mandate to expand infrastructure for the car, and other mechanical horse driven vehicles. Heck, the tractors and anything with wheels powered by gasoline is a cousin to the car. A bus is like a land dinosaur, family-tree analogy wise. The first plane by the wright bros... it's like the weakling dinosaur-birdies. Huge ass A380s are like Kaijus. 

 

You know, I see these insurance commercials from Bel Air... and it ends like "you trapped a 100 horses in there? You monster, I'll save you mighty steeds!!!"

 

Cars are mechanical horses. Tractors, mechanical oxen. Those horses love to drink gasoline, engine oil... they can consume people and spit out carbon dioxide among other gases they fart, $h! people out as well, as well as other junk that comes with those people. The finest breed of cars like the royalties, must be kept purebred, which is why RR only has one descendant, Bentley. However, for some reason, those at the very top are interbreeding with somewhat lower stature mechanical horses.

 

Cadillac and Lincolns at first were also purebred. But then they interbreed-ed with the wrong mechanical horses, and lost their pedigree. BMW is currently inbreeding. Mercedes is currently evolving, this subset of horses has so many variants. Some are of pedigree. Others have become inbred with a weaker family tree, and are now mongrels. 

 

Cadillac devolved, but now like a horse family put to hard work, multiple generations of being trained... about halfway or so back, is showing signs of becoming one of the finest once more.

 

etc...etc...

 

Electric cars derive nourishment on basically the equivalent like cow's rumination chambers which they have like 4 or 5 something (akin to cells). Electric horses need many more cells though. Hundreds, thousands. Well, there are in some breeds a lot of electric horses, and they are thirsty.

 

In them a chemical reaction happens that adds energy to electrons to make them flow. Man has figured out how to reverse what the rumination chambers aka "cells" do, by putting back energy that was either transferred  more directly to cells via solar energy being harnessed very inefficiently by photovoltaics, then to another mega battery, or indirectly by oxidizing other dead dinosaurs very rapidly such so they release energy in huge "stomachs" that heat up water being digested that is farted at high pressure to some blowing fans that then create a magnetic field which creates a flow of electrons.

 

The first EV's way back when were a branch of the mechanical horses, like chimpanzees to gorillas. However, they could not adapt to the upcoming feeding that mechanical horses would have on the torrent of either fermented, pressed, and aromatic variants of deads dinosaurs. Electrics horses were killed off or just lost habitat like the homo sapien to the Neanderthal. So electric horses died out almost completely. They would live on, barely, either hibernate in museums or plant dormant seeds to perhaps reclaim themselves when the adaptations were right. But suddenly, in just 100 years or so, the mechanical horses...unbeknownst to them - the parasites that control them - humans - are aware the feeding will end - either by nature or by force. Because some of the parasites have changed their own adaptation to survive. Kinda like how SIV is related to HIV. They believe that some want to live off of electric horses, and they believe electric horses have an advantage. While dead dinosaurs can finally satiate the electric horses indiretctly, there is the potential that one day the parasites can feed their horses to live off of the flow of water, wind and collect the energy imparted to the photons of the Sun itself. The Sun is a gold mine, far more plentiful than dead dinosaur. 

 

And the electrics horses themselves? Why are they coming back? Well the so called 'intelligent' parasites would like to think that nature makes adaptations, it evolves, sometimes to progress, sometimes to devolve. Perhaps nature wanted the mechanical horses to have their moment - just prove to the parasites that mechanical horses may one day themselves have to evolve, and they did, when they spawned the first electric horse, the first flying horses. They were weak, but they held promise.

Interesting story time! What is tomorrow nights story about?

[Suaviloquent]

[hyperv6]

Norway has announced a plan to ban sale of cars with an internal combustion engine by 2025.  They won't be the first.  China should do that, their air quality is a joke.  

 

Government mandates will lead to more electrification too.  

 

Electricity is the most readily available power source.  And the batteries will eventually get there, they just aren't there yet.   The horsepower is already there.

 

My question is if Electric cars are so great why would they need to ban the Gas ones?

 

My feeling is continue development and investment and make a  better EV then let the market make the change. 

[hyperv6]

 

Now I like that story! 

[oldshurst442]

 

Norway has announced a plan to ban sale of cars with an internal combustion engine by 2025.  They won't be the first.  China should do that, their air quality is a joke.  

 

Government mandates will lead to more electrification too.  

 

Electricity is the most readily available power source.  And the batteries will eventually get there, they just aren't there yet.   The horsepower is already there.

 

My question is if Electric cars are so great why would they need to ban the Gas ones?

 

My feeling is continue development and investment and make a  better EV then let the market make the change. 

 

 

1 word:

 

 

POLLUTION

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Norway

 

From the WIKI link:

 

"The electricity sector in Norway relies predominantly on hydroelectricity. A significant share of the total electrical production is consumed by national industry."

 

 

 

 

 

I dont like Big Brother dictating to me either what is good and bad for me...

However, I dont like big business greasing up the politicians I vote for telling them to tell me what is good or no good for me either.

 

As you could see...this is a stale mate....

 

However...since Norway produces its own electricity...and Hydro-electric power is as clean as it gets....and all these EVs will be roaming around in Norway relatively pollution free, with the exception of battery replacement and disposal...and the re-charging costs of the drivers will go DIRECTLY into Norway's coffers instead of Big Oil and Middle Eastern, Russian(Ukraine), Canadian, or even American oil drilling interests...Id say its a win-win for Norway this way....

 

PS: Norway has Middle Eastern internal problems..

Banning gasoline cars... Saudi terrorist oil gets eliminated killing two birds with one stone...money to Norway while really stifling Saudi terrorist oil money...

Edited June 11, 2016 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

 

But initially, cars never replaced horses- they were discretionary toys or farm vehicles for the most part.

They weren't depended on, people very seldom did long distances, therefore range anxiety was never a wide-spread concern.

 

Tangential factoids : Ford Model T had a range of 200-250 miles. And a Packard made the 1st cross-country trip, in 1903.

 

EVs - in general- have yet to shake the range anxiety reputation (Tesla, perhaps, excluded).

Balthazar, do you not think EVs will catch on much faster due to state, county and city GOVs going to EV fleets which will introduce more people to driving them and helping to change peoples perception? Tesla I think more than the Prius has changed peoples attitude about EV auto's and I think the BOLT will only increase the notion that I can go electric and ditch the dirty pump for many people. Ease of recharging at home is very appealing to people rather than having to plan to run out and fill up auto's for the week.

 

 

I kinda view the situation you described like going to the movies in the '20s-70s to the 80s with VCR rentals to the 90s with DVD rentals to Netflix at home...

 

It was once fun to go to the movies with friends and family....but....waiting in line excessively took a toll on our patience...

 

So by the time movies were being transferred to Beta and VHS and we could rent them, we stopped waiting in line excessively...

 

We still wait in line like this...but only for the Star Wars franchise  it seems and for young Leo DiCaprio movies where he is drowning in the North Atlantic from hypothermia...

 

And,  by the time DVDs came of age....we were even fed up of rewinding the damned tape before returning the movie back to Blockbuster Video...(yeah remember them???!!!)

 

So when Netflix came to be...we just about had it from renting movies for 24 hours, then for renting them for 48 hours and then for 1 week, only to bring the movies back???!!!

 

What the hell is that???!!!!

 

I have to go out of my way to rent the stupid movie, then return it????!!!!!

 

Go phoque yourself Blockbuster!!!   I dont have to return no movies no more!!!

 

(this was when Netflix mailed the bloody movie to your home...and alls you had to do is just mail it back, but that too became tiresome..now Netflix lets us download....but apparantly that is starting to bother us as well)

 

OK...the connection:

 

I dont know about anybody else, but Im fed up of stopping every so often at the gas shop and most of the time the route to the gas shop is outta my way just to have my hands stink of gas....

 

I realize that EV range is nowhere near the range of gasoline powered cars..but doncha think when battery range comes close to gasoline range....doncha think that people are gonna view recharging at the comfort of one's home versus going out of one's way to gas up or recharge at a gas/recharge station as they do Netflix to DVDs to Beta/VHS to movie theatre going?

 

We as humans, when we find a way that eliminates the hassles, we tend to adopt the less hassle way of things immediately is alls Im sayin'!!!

Edited June 11, 2016 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

 

 

But initially, cars never replaced horses- they were discretionary toys or farm vehicles for the most part.

They weren't depended on, people very seldom did long distances, therefore range anxiety was never a wide-spread concern.

 

Tangential factoids : Ford Model T had a range of 200-250 miles. And a Packard made the 1st cross-country trip, in 1903.

 

EVs - in general- have yet to shake the range anxiety reputation (Tesla, perhaps, excluded).

Balthazar, do you not think EVs will catch on much faster due to state, county and city GOVs going to EV fleets which will introduce more people to driving them and helping to change peoples perception? Tesla I think more than the Prius has changed peoples attitude about EV auto's and I think the BOLT will only increase the notion that I can go electric and ditch the dirty pump for many people. Ease of recharging at home is very appealing to people rather than having to plan to run out and fill up auto's for the week.

 

 

I kinda view the situation you described like going to the movies in the '20s-70s to the 80s with VCR rentals to the 90s with DVD rentals to Netflix at home...

 

It was once fun to go to the movies with friends and family....but....waiting in line excessively took a toll on our patience...

 

So by the time movies were being transferred to Beta and VHS and we could rent them, we stopped waiting in line excessively...

 

We still wait in line like this...but only for the Star Wars franchise  it seems and for young Leo DiCaprio movies where he is drowning in the North Atlantic from hypothermia...

 

And,  by the time DVDs came of age....we were even fed up of rewinding the damned tape before returning the movie back to Blockbuster Video...(yeah remember them???!!!)

 

So when Netflix came to be...we just about had it from renting movies for 24 hours, then for renting them for 48 hours and then for 1 week, only to bring the movies back???!!!

 

What the hell is that???!!!!

 

I have to go out of my way to rent the stupid movie, then return it????!!!!!

 

Go phoque yourself Blockbuster!!!   I dont have to return no movies no more!!!

 

(this was when Netflix mailed the bloody movie to your home...and alls you had to do is just mail it back, but that too became tiresome..now Netflix lets us download....but apparantly that is starting to bother us as well)

 

OK...the connection:

 

I dont know about anybody else, but Im fed up of stopping every so often at the gas shop and most of the time the route to the gas shop is outta my way just to have my hands stink of gas....

 

I realize that EV range is nowhere near the range of gasoline powered cars..but doncha think when battery range comes close to gasoline range....doncha think that people are gonna view recharging at the comfort of one's home versus going out of one's way to gas up or recharge at a gas/recharge station as they do Netflix to DVDs to Beta/VHS to movie theatre going?

 

We as humans, when we find a way that eliminates the hassles, we tend to adopt the less hassle way of things immediately is alls Im sayin'!!!

 

We'll Stated Olds!

[oldshurst442]

thank-you

[Suaviloquent]

Interesting and highly amusing. Great story time!!  We need more story time. MOAR.....

 

 

[hyperv6]

 

 

Norway has announced a plan to ban sale of cars with an internal combustion engine by 2025.  They won't be the first.  China should do that, their air quality is a joke.  

 

Government mandates will lead to more electrification too.  

 

Electricity is the most readily available power source.  And the batteries will eventually get there, they just aren't there yet.   The horsepower is already there.

 

My question is if Electric cars are so great why would they need to ban the Gas ones?

 

My feeling is continue development and investment and make a  better EV then let the market make the change. 

 

 

1 word:

 

 

POLLUTION

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Norway

 

From the WIKI link:

 

"The electricity sector in Norway relies predominantly on hydroelectricity. A significant share of the total electrical production is consumed by national industry."

 

 

 

 

 

I dont like Big Brother dictating to me either what is good and bad for me...

However, I dont like big business greasing up the politicians I vote for telling them to tell me what is good or no good for me either.

 

As you could see...this is a stale mate....

 

However...since Norway produces its own electricity...and Hydro-electric power is as clean as it gets....and all these EVs will be roaming around in Norway relatively pollution free, with the exception of battery replacement and disposal...and the re-charging costs of the drivers will go DIRECTLY into Norway's coffers instead of Big Oil and Middle Eastern, Russian(Ukraine), Canadian, or even American oil drilling interests...Id say its a win-win for Norway this way....

 

PS: Norway has Middle Eastern internal problems..

Banning gasoline cars... Saudi terrorist oil gets eliminated killing two birds with one stone...money to Norway while really stifling Saudi terrorist oil money...

 

 

Yes but we here in North America have nearly all of our oil here. Little comes from the middle east and so what is the difference if we pay an oil company or if we pay a electric company? Norway's electric companies will fill their coffers.  

As for pollution well it is well documented the auto is a very small part of all emissions and has dropped much in the last how many years. 

 

Sorry the electric future is not a future free of pollution and free energy by a long shot. 

 

How long is it going to take for most Americans to understand so little of our oil comes from the middle east. Hell I think Canada and the US export more than we bring in. 

[hyperv6]

 

 

But initially, cars never replaced horses- they were discretionary toys or farm vehicles for the most part.

They weren't depended on, people very seldom did long distances, therefore range anxiety was never a wide-spread concern.

 

Tangential factoids : Ford Model T had a range of 200-250 miles. And a Packard made the 1st cross-country trip, in 1903.

 

EVs - in general- have yet to shake the range anxiety reputation (Tesla, perhaps, excluded).

Balthazar, do you not think EVs will catch on much faster due to state, county and city GOVs going to EV fleets which will introduce more people to driving them and helping to change peoples perception? Tesla I think more than the Prius has changed peoples attitude about EV auto's and I think the BOLT will only increase the notion that I can go electric and ditch the dirty pump for many people. Ease of recharging at home is very appealing to people rather than having to plan to run out and fill up auto's for the week.

 

 

I kinda view the situation you described like going to the movies in the '20s-70s to the 80s with VCR rentals to the 90s with DVD rentals to Netflix at home...

 

It was once fun to go to the movies with friends and family....but....waiting in line excessively took a toll on our patience...

 

So by the time movies were being transferred to Beta and VHS and we could rent them, we stopped waiting in line excessively...

 

We still wait in line like this...but only for the Star Wars franchise  it seems and for young Leo DiCaprio movies where he is drowning in the North Atlantic from hypothermia...

 

And,  by the time DVDs came of age....we were even fed up of rewinding the damned tape before returning the movie back to Blockbuster Video...(yeah remember them???!!!)

 

So when Netflix came to be...we just about had it from renting movies for 24 hours, then for renting them for 48 hours and then for 1 week, only to bring the movies back???!!!

 

What the hell is that???!!!!

 

I have to go out of my way to rent the stupid movie, then return it????!!!!!

 

Go phoque yourself Blockbuster!!!   I dont have to return no movies no more!!!

 

(this was when Netflix mailed the bloody movie to your home...and alls you had to do is just mail it back, but that too became tiresome..now Netflix lets us download....but apparantly that is starting to bother us as well)

 

OK...the connection:

 

I dont know about anybody else, but Im fed up of stopping every so often at the gas shop and most of the time the route to the gas shop is outta my way just to have my hands stink of gas....

 

I realize that EV range is nowhere near the range of gasoline powered cars..but doncha think when battery range comes close to gasoline range....doncha think that people are gonna view recharging at the comfort of one's home versus going out of one's way to gas up or recharge at a gas/recharge station as they do Netflix to DVDs to Beta/VHS to movie theatre going?

 

We as humans, when we find a way that eliminates the hassles, we tend to adopt the less hassle way of things immediately is alls Im sayin'!!!

 

 

Yet we the movie theater is still alive and gotten even larger with more technology as  we line up to spend millions to go stand in line to see Star Wars in HD 3D paying even more for the privilege.  

 

While the VCR and Netflix has become part of the market they have not yet taken fully over. Like I say it will be a shared future as not one technology solves it all for everyone. 

 

It is not all about the same range. It will be about life style altering. Until the EV is to the point where it does not change your lifestyle from what you experience with the gas models it will always be seen as a disadvantage by many. No people do not want to take 30 min piss breaks every 200 miles on a trip. 

 

It is not just electric but even hydrogen. Until there are more places to charge or fill and units that will do it in the same time as 18 gallons of gas there will always be a problem for the average customer on many of these technologies. Add to this the customers that live where they have to park on streets and in cities where there is just no place to charge. 

 

We have come a long way but we have a ways farther to go and no ETA on the destination. This will be a growing segment held to the speed of development. It will be faster than it has because of the spending increase but it will still be limited by the technology discoveries that you just can not put on a time table. 

[surreal1272]

Norway has announced a plan to ban sale of cars with an internal combustion engine by 2025.  They won't be the first.  China should do that, their air quality is a joke.  

 

Government mandates will lead to more electrification too.  

 

Electricity is the most readily available power source.  And the batteries will eventually get there, they just aren't there yet.   The horsepower is already there.

 

My question is if Electric cars are so great why would they need to ban the Gas ones?

 

My feeling is continue development and investment and make a  better EV then let the market make the change.

 

1 word:

 

 

POLLUTION

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Norway

 

From the WIKI link:

 

"The electricity sector in Norway relies predominantly on hydroelectricity. A significant share of the total electrical production is consumed by national industry."

 

 

I dont like Big Brother dictating to me either what is good and bad for me...

However, I dont like big business greasing up the politicians I vote for telling them to tell me what is good or no good for me either.

 

As you could see...this is a stale mate....

 

However...since Norway produces its own electricity...and Hydro-electric power is as clean as it gets....and all these EVs will be roaming around in Norway relatively pollution free, with the exception of battery replacement and disposal...and the re-charging costs of the drivers will go DIRECTLY into Norway's coffers instead of Big Oil and Middle Eastern, Russian(Ukraine), Canadian, or even American oil drilling interests...Id say its a win-win for Norway this way....

 

PS: Norway has Middle Eastern internal problems..

Banning gasoline cars... Saudi terrorist oil gets eliminated killing two birds with one stone...money to Norway while really stifling Saudi terrorist oil money...

 

Yes but we here in North America have nearly all of our oil here. Little comes from the middle east and so what is the difference if we pay an oil company or if we pay a electric company? Norway's electric companies will fill their coffers.  

As for pollution well it is well documented the auto is a very small part of all emissions and has dropped much in the last how many years. 

 

Sorry the electric future is not a future free of pollution and free energy by a long shot. 

 

How long is it going to take for most Americans to understand so little of our oil comes from the middle east. Hell I think Canada and the US export more than we bring in.

If that Middle East oil is so insignificant, why do we fight tooth and nail for it?

Also, yes there is no such thing as free electricity. However there are multiple sources in which to achieve damn near zero pollution electricity, unlike oil. That is a fact that the old school energy hairs refuses to accept and continue to tell us that our oil and how we get it is just fine, when damn the opposite of that is true.

[oldshurst442]

If that Middle East oil is so insignificant, why do we fight tooth and nail for it?

Also, yes there is no such thing as free electricity. However there are multiple sources in which to achieve damn near zero pollution electricity, unlike oil. That is a fact that the old school energy hairs refuses to accept and continue to tell us that our oil and how we get it is just fine, when damn the opposite of that is true.

 

 

 

Yes SURREAL!!!!

 

Hydroelectric power....

 

When the Quebec Government wanted to do the Manic 5 project....the Aboriginals fought tooth and nail for this project NOT to take place since the environment gets damaged....a lot...

Flooding....major flooding of the surrounding lands is necessary destroying many many habitable homes of the animals that happen to live there. 

The dam itself kills so many fish....so yeah....this sort of stuff does come at an environmental cost...

 

The next time the Quebec Government wants to flood and/or excavate an entire area for another hydroelectric dam, many lessons learned from the past will at least minimize the loss of animal life and their habitat...

 

However....50 or so years later after all that...

 

BEFORE during construction:

 

AFTER- 50 years or so later:

 

I think its safe for us to say that Mother Nature has reclaimed her lost territory...and yes, the salmon are very well protected and cared for...

As for the production of the electricity itself?

The water flows freely,  the  turbines spin and a shaft connecting it to a generator, and voila!

A coal powered plant works about the same...instead of free flowing water...we have fire burning coal and the heat produced uses that steam energy to spin a turbine that is connected to a generator....

 

Difference is....free flowing water is...POLLUTION FREE!!!

GRAVITY is the engine that makes the water flow from the dam reservoir  on top to underneath the building that houses the generators where the turbines reside...

 

Unlike the smoke from burning coal...

Nuclear powerplant?

If it wasnt for that nasty waste after the uranium is spent, not too bad as far as other types of pollution goes...

So yeah....hydroelectric power is as clean as it gets.

Ive ALWAYS stated that!!!!

Hydroelectric power is as clean as it gets.

 

After initial destroying of land, in due time, mother nature reclaims what was hers!

 

After that...its battery disposals versus carbon monoxide footprints....

Pick your poison...

 

But this is about Norway....and Quebec...

Hyper....you asked why would Norway ban petrol powered cars....

 

I think Ive stated my case with 2 posts along with Surreal's post pretty well...

[oldshurst442]

SEE PREVIOUS PAGE FOR ANOTHER RESPONSE I MADE

(If anybody is interested that is)

 

 

Concerning the Movie Theatre comparison:

 

Yet Hyper...we spend hundreds of thousands MORE....since the 1980s....on stuff like this:

On a modest budget

 

On a slightly bigger budget:

 

And on a GRAND budget:

 

And yet...this too is becoming fast a thing of the past...as you see that little tablet on the pic above?

Well, most young folk today just watch the next Star Wars saga on their smart Tablet or worse...their smart phone...

 

It was just a comparison....but Ill go further..seeing as movie going and watching is part of my Greek DNA...For a couple of millennia now, plays are what some Greek artisans and poetics were known for...

From Plato to  Shakespeare to  Broadway, our world continues to promote playwrights...that has not changed...the Hollywood hooplah of moving pictures, sound, colour, stereo, 3D,  Dolby Stereo, DTS, high definition, digital 3D, computer graphics has still not deterred what my ancient peoples started:

 

 

Yes. Its a shared technology as even my theatre plays to Hollywood to home cinemas prove

 True also that not one solution works for everybody....

 

But...this conversation suggests that people will forego the hassles when a less hassle option presents itself tregardless....and like in another part in this thread that I stated....many American States and 3 or 4 or even 5 Canadian provinces are adapting to the EV and many people in these areas are already on a mindset to change...

And as the EV cars get more and more range...more and more will be more than happy to charge from home....and take a 30 minute piss and shyte fro tie to time...little compromises....

Such as some people will forego huge 50/60 inch TV screens and DTS surround sound in their comfort of their own home to watch a movie on 2 shytty iPhone/Pad speakers or headphones on a 5/10 inch screen phone/tablet on a bus or Subway/Starbucks...

 

I think my comparison still holds water...

Edited June 12, 2016 by oldshurst442

[Suaviloquent]

The real ticket will be a car that can be summoned from all the way accross the country?

 

What about a car being summoned from like... Spain? Will it do all the importing paperwork for you, while your CC get's charged and then it arrives like a couple months later as it crosses the Atlantic. Real tight.

[hyperv6]

SEE PREVIOUS PAGE FOR ANOTHER RESPONSE I MADE

(If anybody is interested that is)

 

 

Concerning the Movie Theatre comparison:

 

Yet Hyper...we spend hundreds of thousands MORE....since the 1980s....on stuff like this:

On a modest budget

 

On a slightly bigger budget:

 

And on a GRAND budget:

 

And yet...this too is becoming fast a thing of the past...as you see that little tablet on the pic above?

Well, most young folk today just watch the next Star Wars saga on their smart Tablet or worse...their smart phone...

 

It was just a comparison....but Ill go further..seeing as movie going and watching is part of my Greek DNA...For a couple of millennia now, plays are what some Greek artisans and poetics were known for...

From Plato to  Shakespeare to  Broadway, our world continues to promote playwrights...that has not changed...the Hollywood hooplah of moving pictures, sound, colour, stereo, 3D,  Dolby Stereo, DTS, high definition, digital 3D, computer graphics has still not deterred what my ancient peoples started:

 

 

Yes. Its a shared technology as even my theatre plays to Hollywood to home cinemas prove

 True also that not one solution works for everybody....

 

But...this conversation suggests that people will forego the hassles when a less hassle option presents itself tregardless....and like in another part in this thread that I stated....many American States and 3 or 4 or even 5 Canadian provinces are adapting to the EV and many people in these areas are already on a mindset to change...

And as the EV cars get more and more range...more and more will be more than happy to charge from home....and take a 30 minute piss and shyte fro tie to time...little compromises....

Such as some people will forego huge 50/60 inch TV screens and DTS surround sound in their comfort of their own home to watch a movie on 2 shytty iPhone/Pad speakers or headphones on a 5/10 inch screen phone/tablet on a bus or Subway/Starbucks...

 

I think my comparison still holds water...

 

We spend this money on TV systems so we can watch the replay of the video that we stood in line a at the theater big screen 3 months before. 

 

Point is yes we have more options but the original is still a player just as ICE will be in the future along with the other options. 

The only thing to stop ICE would be government regulations. If you think the gun debate is tough just wait for that one. 

 

You comparison is a partial truth you need to include all the facts and factors not cherry pick. 

The real ticket will be a car that can be summoned from all the way accross the country?

 

What about a car being summoned from like... Spain? Will it do all the importing paperwork for you, while your CC get's charged and then it arrives like a couple months later as it crosses the Atlantic. Real tight.

 

Why?

Edited June 12, 2016 by hyperv6

[hyperv6]

 

If that Middle East oil is so insignificant, why do we fight tooth and nail for it?

Also, yes there is no such thing as free electricity. However there are multiple sources in which to achieve damn near zero pollution electricity, unlike oil. That is a fact that the old school energy hairs refuses to accept and continue to tell us that our oil and how we get it is just fine, when damn the opposite of that is true.

 

 

See this is why this is such a F'd up issue. Even you do not get the whole picture and you are pretty much up on most but not all. So many others do not even get 25% of what you get. 

The simple fact is today Oil is a traded commodity. The economy of the world is based on oil as it was changed over from the Gold standard in the 70's. It is not so much the use of oil but the manipulation of the price of oil at what time and who benefits from it. 

 

The simple fact is oil is needed till we can base the economy on something else. If the price drops out of oil we all hurt. 

Of late the fact that Canada and The USA have been able to control the markets with the supply of oil till the Saudi government flooded the market to down turn oil. This hurt the dollar but the truth is it really hurt Russia. 

Now our leadership at this time has done much damage to us as they have refused to put in the pipe line from Canada that would give us a strong chip in controlling oil prices refined in TX. This also tied into the fact we have lifted sanction on Iran who now can try to help Russia. 

 

Putin has been in the middle east trying to prop up their control over oil production. 

The bottom line is the Royal Saudi family controls their country. There are two sides and one likes us and one hates us. The one that likes us is the one we support to help win favor with the control of the global economy. The other is willing to toss the other side and cut us out. Iran wants to take Iraq and Syria and control the region in time taking Saudi Arabia too. 

 

This is a very involved deal where it can not be explained in a simple post and generally most Americans have no clue. 

You can still power all the cars by Electric but the issue is Oil is still needed for so many other products including the construction of EV cars that it will still be the focal point of our economy as that is what the dollar is based on. 

 

As for any ideas of changing the currency to a Electric based economy that is not going to happen. 

 

The fact is when we left the gold standard we opened Pandora's box and getting it closed is a real major issue that is not something that will ever be completely resolved out side of a global shift and conflict. 

 

The fact is no matter how you make the Electric it takes a lot of money to build and support the damns, wind mills, power plants, Nuke plants and any other way. It also cost a lot of money to keep the grid in place. Also the electric companies are in it to make a profit and right now many complain they are not making enough as my bill grows higher and higher. 

 

Again this is a case where it will take all applications of power to maintain an edge in the future. There is no free ride and we are not going to see a free power utopia unless you are willing to forgo many things. 

Only the Amish are the few that are off the grid to a point but even they are now working the edges as they can not do all they need to do with wind or even solar. Many rely on Diesel and even go on the grid to control the refrigeration they need for milk and other things to meet FDA regulations on the farm.  They may not have electric in the house but they have it in the barn. 

 

There is so many things to this issue and to be fair both sides leave out and cherry pick for their side. In too many cases people just do not understand the truth on all the factors and are taken for a ride on by some who have hijacked the green industry for fast profits. Yes some on the green side are just as corrupt as some on the oil side. Mr Gore is one of them. 

 

The bottom line a war is going on for power and world financial control. Going all green is not going to change the fact the dollar is oil based and will remain that way. 

[oldshurst442]

@Hyper...

 

OH NO!!!!

 

I know plenty of people that OUTRIGHT REFUSED to stand in line to see Star Wars Episode 7 at the movie theater!!!!

And some of those people waited to buy the DVD to see it at home!!!

And some of the other people that refused to see it at the movie theater saw a bootleg copy on the internet...on their tablet, and even REFUSED to buy the DVD at Wallmart for $19.99 on special...

 

I aint cherry picking...you are!!!

My reality on both accounts regarding Hollywood or electrics is bang on!

 

Hollywood has lost a lot of market share at the box office.

Only the big named franchises make the money and the line-ups.

That is why Hollywood is regurgitating old movie reboots...

 

Ghostbusters this summer...with an all female cast...to offset the all male cast of 1984...and to appease the so-called woman power bravado of 2016...

Yeah...good luck wit dat, Hollywood!

I saw how successful the Robocop and Total Recall reboots were!

At least in the 1980s, Hollywood got a big boost in revenue from VHS sales!

I don't see new generation Robocop DVD sales go through the roof at XMAS time as stocking stuffers like I saw in the 1980s for tjhose movies!

 

To tie this in wth EVs...

Most manufacturers are gonna have an electric vehicle or two in their stable in the next 5 years....

And some of those CEOs that run those car companies believe that EVs are the future.

Just like Hollywood had to adjust to internet downloading formats on smart tablets to adjust to the new realities of movie watching...

 

Argue all you want...times, they are a-changin'

[hyperv6]

$$$$$ say different. 2 Billion and more dollars. 

Also you can not claim the movie theater is dead and gone. Today they may have less small town units but the ones we have now are larger and more advanced than ever. 

Where they have lost is because of movies like Ghostbusters Robocop and Total Recall. These were just plain bad remakes of movies no one asked for a remake of. Transformers, Marvel movies and future Star Wars will generate Billions in the future. 

Lets face it Disney and Universal are making a killing at the box office and on DVD both. 

You get a good movie it will make hundreds of millions or even in this case Billions of dollars but you make a bad one then it will go straight to DVD after a week and then you can watch it on the home system. 

 

Hollywood when they get it wrong is not making money but when they get it right they make Billions to the point that Disney expanding the series. 

As for the EV yes all MFG will have to have EV cars even if they do not make money on them to meet future regulations. They have no choice with MPG and Zero emissions numbers they have to meet. This is why they all are making these cars that make little to no profits. 

The fact is the EV is being paid for by the sale of Gas Trucks, CUV models and SUV models. It will be a while before they show a profit of their own. If they were ready for prime time function and profit wise we would see a major change over. But the truth is it will take some more time for them just to show a profit and even then they will be a part of the market not the entire market. 

 

I do not disagree they are coming and will grow in percentages but it is very foolish to think they will replace the ICE in the short term if even longer depending on advancements yet undiscovered. 

 

The development you just can not put a time table on better batteries. That is the biggest thing companies want to develop as getting the perfect battery for the job is like winning the lottery. 

 

See unlike Tesla that has no other support other than keep promising share holders they will make money in the future. The other MFG are still making enough money to support their work on EV product. They can afford to slow grow this and help make an increase in the market but it will be a while before prices come down and other the other bugs are worked out to where the average  buyer will consider the car. 

 

Like I have clearly stated this is about all options as there is no EV utopia around the corner that is acceptable to most buyers nor share holders. 

 

As long as you see large MFG continue to pump billions into new ICE and Transmissions they will have a life in the future and be a significant part of the market. 

Like the Movie industry some things may change in how they do things but the basics will still remain. 

Edited June 12, 2016 by hyperv6

[oldshurst442]

I never said Movie theatres are dead and gone....I said they lost market share...

 

Advanced  tech like 3D IMAX screens mean diddley squat...

Star Wars MIGHT become what the Marvel movies have become....OVERSATURATED!

Marvel movies are horrible, some of them....and I know of some people that have written them off...Disney better be careful because the force might not be with them with crappy regurgitation attempts such as The Force Awakens...I understand the need to do a rehash of Episodes 4 and 5...and I personallly forgive and LOVED Episode 7....but if Episode 8 is NOT an original story line AWAY from the original Trilogy....I will write off this franchise the way I have written off The Terminator....

Yeah...the Terminator...another HUGE franchise that WONT see blockbuster numbers like T2 did...write off...

 

About The Transformers...Big Numbers ONLY because from the get go it was BIG EXPLOSIONS and nothing more....some flashy cars turning into flashy robots and Megan Fox's legs and cleavage and voila....$$$$$

Its a boys dream movie....Hollywood BETTER milk that as much as they can...

 

The fact that you said "when they get it right, they make BILLIONS...."

Once upon a time ago...peaked in the 1980s and spilled over into the 1990s, there was no such thing as "when they get it right...."

Hollywood could do nothing wrong then....unfortunately now...Hollywood is competing with other types of entertainment....

Video games....in the 1980s....Hollywood cleaned the Video Gaming industry's clock....in the 1990s, they united only for the Video Game industry to make a turn around and dominate...

In the 1990s, the Video Game Industry NEEDED Hollywood to sustain popularity with movies like The Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles and Mortal Kombat....todayits the reverse...Hollywood needs the Video Game industry to cash in because they are more misses than hits...

A reboot of the Mutant Turtles and Driver are proof....

Angelina Jolie and Lara Croft were busts...hence why a 75 year old Harrison Ford is gonna do yet another Indy Jones movie....and even then....that was once a HUGE franchise too...the last movie bombed!

 

 

Like I said...Disney better be careful with Star Wars...

Star Wars fans are a fickle bunch...

Episodes 1-3 were HATED....made billions....but HATED because they veered too far from the originals...

Episode 7...some fans HATED it...because it was too much of the same formula as the originals...

Rogue 1 is about to hit us.

Episode 8 in another year.

Han Solo solo movie.

Episode 9.

Other offshoots....

Over saturation if Rogue 1 and Episode 8 are hated.....

 

Ask James Cameron how he feels about the Terminator series...

He dont care as he is pushing Avatar 2....

But I dont think Avatar 2 will be that big....

 

Disney makes tons of money off of kids movies...cute and funny and original kids movies...

As always...

But...its the toys that make the bulk of it...

 

This business model aint exactly all Hollywood, is it?

 

 

I think we both made good points....

Fight a good fight we did. Analyze we did.

I agree to some points you made on the EV side of things!

 

Even though electric cars are nothing new...

REAL attempts for them to succeed are still in its infancy, so Ill concede my thought process and maybe have a more similar mind set to yours on them....however, the Quebec people, politicians are ready and accepting to have EVs on our roads...and we are trying the best we can financially...because Quebec is a have not Province as we speak....we are not THAT bad....but we certainly are not rolling in money....to make EVs be the majority in 15 years from now...

[hyperv6]

The bottom line is ICE will be here for a good while and will remain in the lead in market share. The EV segment will grow but it  will be slow growth with no time table.