May 2016: Fiat Chrysler Automobiles US LLC

[William Maley]

FCA US LLC Reports May 2016 U.S. Sales Increased 1 Percent; Best May Sales Since 2005

• Jeep® brand sales up 14 percent; best monthly sales ever
• Jeep Renegade and Jeep Patriot each posts their best monthly sales ever
• Ram ProMaster and Ram ProMaster City vans record their best May sales ever

June 1, 2016 , Auburn Hills, Mich. - FCA US LLC today reported U.S. sales of 204,452 units, a 1 percent increase compared with sales in May 2015 (202,227 units), and the group’s best May sales in 11 years.

 

The Jeep® and Ram Truck brands each posted year-over-year sales gains in May compared with the same month a year ago. The Jeep brand’s 14 percent increase was the brand’s best monthly sales ever.

 

“Notwithstanding a challenging calendar, we managed to muscle our way to our strongest May sales in over 10 years,” said Reid Bigland, Senior Vice President - Sales, FCA - North America. “Initial sales of our all-new Chrysler Pacifica minivan are brisk and we expect further sales growth from this vehicle over the next few months as dealer inventory continues to build.”

 

Five FCA US vehicles set records in the month of May. The Jeep Renegade and Jeep Patriot each recorded their best monthly sales ever, while the Ram ProMaster and Ram ProMaster City vans posted their best May sales ever. In addition, the Jeep Compass turned in its best May sales ever. On the brand side, the Jeep brand continues to set records with its best monthly sales ever.

 

Jeep® Brand

Jeep brand sales were up 14 percent in May for its best monthly sales ever and its 32nd-consecutive month of year-over-year sales gains. The Jeep brand has set a sales record in every month dating back to November 2013. Both the Jeep Renegade – the newest entry to the Jeep product lineup – and the Jeep Patriot turned in their best monthly sales ever. Sales of the Jeep Grand Cherokee were up 4 percent for its best May sales since the year 2000. The Renegade last month made Kelley Blue Book’s 2016 list of the 10 Coolest Cars Under $18,000.

 

Ram Truck Brand

Ram Truck brand sales, which include the Ram pickup, Ram ProMaster and Ram ProMaster City, were up slightly in May for its best May sales since 2005. Both the Ram ProMaster and Ram ProMaster City vans each recorded their best May sales ever. The 2016 Ram 1500 took home the “Best Family Pickup Truck” award last month from the Family Car Challenge hosted by the Greater Atlanta Automotive Media Association (GAAMA).

 

Dodge Brand

Dodge Grand Caravan sales were up 76 percent last month for its best May sales since 2014, while Dodge Durango sales increased 2 percent for its best May sales performance since 2005. In addition, Dodge Charger sales were up 5 percent for its best May in two years. Dodge brand sales were down 5 percent in May compared with the same month a year ago. The Dodge brand earned three major awards last month during the Texas Auto Roundup hosted by the Texas Auto Writers Association (TAWA). Dodge collected the Full-size Sedan of Texas (2016 Charger R/T Scat Pack), Performance Sedan of Texas (2016 Charger SRT Hellcat) and Super Car of Texas (2016 Viper GTC) during the annual competition.

 

Chrysler Brand

In its second month on sale, the all-new 2017 Chrysler Pacifica minivan posted sales of 2,495 units, up significantly from the 487 units sold in its initial month on sale in April. The Pacifica last month was honored as the Family Car of Texas at TAWA’s Texas Auto Roundup. But the accolades didn’t stop there. The Pacifica also took home TAWA awards for Minivan of Texas, Best New Interior, and Best New Feature for its Uconnect Theater. Greater volumes of the new minivan will continue to arrive at dealerships just in time for the busy summer-selling season. Sales of the Chrysler 300 full-size sedan were up 38 percent for its best May sales since 2012. In addition, Chrysler Town & Country sales were up 49 percent for its best May in two years. Chrysler brand sales were down 19 percent in May compared with the same month a year ago.

 

FIAT Brand

FIAT brand sales, which include the Fiat 500, Fiat 500L and 500X, were down 19 percent in May, compared with the same month a year ago. Sales of the 500X were up in May compared with the same month a year ago, in its first month of year-over-year comparisons. The 500 last month made Kelley Blue Book’s 2016 list of the 10 Coolest Cars Under $18,000. Deliveries of the all-new 2017 Fiat 124 Spider are expected to begin arriving in FIAT studios this month. The 124 Spider revives the storied nameplate, bringing its classic Italian styling and performance to a new generation of vehicles and buyers. Paying homage to the original 124 Spider nearly 50 years after its introduction, the 2017 Fiat 124 Spider delivers the ultimate Italian roadster experience with driving excitement, technology and safety combined with iconic Italian design. 

 

	FCA US LLC Sales Summary May 2016
		Month Sales		Vol %	CYTD Sales		Vol %
	Model	Curr Yr	Pr Yr	Change	Curr Yr	Pr Yr	Change
	Compass	9,198	4,252	116%	39,193	22,782	72%
	Patriot	12,864	10,782	19%	52,067	49,944	4%
	Wrangler	19,551	22,324	-12%	80,295	83,291	-4%
	Cherokee	19,208	19,669	-2%	86,409	86,954	-1%
	Grand Cherokee	18,856	18,209	4%	83,927	77,616	8%
	Renegade	10,868	4,416	146%	42,549	9,573	344%
	JEEP BRAND	90,545	79,652	14%	384,440	330,160	16%
	200	7,600	20,007	-62%	33,164	88,009	-62%
	300	5,598	4,042	38%	27,085	20,750	31%
	Town & Country	8,583	5,753	49%	49,394	30,680	61%
	Pacifica	2,495	0	New	2,982	0	New
	CHRYSLER BRAND	24,276	29,802	-19%	112,625	139,439	-19%
	Dart	4,514	8,667	-48%	25,774	42,353	-39%
	Avenger	0	111	-100%	0	898	-100%
	Charger	8,142	7,777	5%	44,101	43,058	2%
	Challenger	6,677	7,438	-10%	29,128	30,166	-3%
	Viper	47	58	-19%	241	289	-17%
	Journey	6,137	8,813	-30%	37,423	41,456	-10%
	Caravan	11,135	6,320	76%	58,050	29,364	98%
	Durango	6,185	6,084	2%	32,204	26,101	23%
	DODGE  BRAND	42,837	45,268	-5%	226,921	213,685	6%
	Ram P/U	38,833	39,952	-3%	193,279	179,384	8%
	Cargo Van	1	191	-99%	1	2,996	-100%
	ProMaster Van	2,946	2,541	16%	14,175	9,854	44%
	ProMaster City	1,833	914	101%	8,264	2,634	214%
	RAM BRAND	43,613	43,598	0%	215,736	194,868	11%
	Alfa 4C	44	40	10%	273	295	-7%
	ALFA BRAND	44	40	10%	273	295	-7%
	500	1,553	2,614	-41%	6,819	13,107	-48%
	500L	334	1,245	-73%	2,064	5,546	-63%
	500X	1,250	8	15525%	6,308	8	78750%
	FIAT BRAND	3,137	3,867	-19%	15,191	18,661	-19%
	TOTAL FCA US LLC	204,452	202,227	1%	955,186	897,108	6%
	Total Car & MPV	56,722	64,072	-11%	279,075	304,515	-8%
	Total UV's	104,117	94,557	10%	460,375	397,725	16%
	Total Truck & LCV	43,613	43,598	0%	215,736	194,868	11%

 

[G. David Felt]

So everything is down double digits except RAM being neutral and JEEP is keeping them afloat. 

 

This is Sergio's legacy. Crappy management of product lines. Just kill off Fiat and stop wasting money on Alfa.

[surreal1272]

How in the world do 92,000 people have a Patriot or a Compass? Are there BOGO deals going on that I don't know about?

[ccap41]

How in the world do 92,000 people have a Patriot or a Compass? Are there BOGO deals going on that I don't know about?

Dude, I can't agree more! 

 

There are soooooooo many better vehicles out there than those 15 year old little SUVs. 

 

If there is a BOGO I'll go havzies(halvsies/halfzies) with you on a pair of them so we'll each get one for 50% off. 

[surreal1272]

How in the world do 92,000 people have a Patriot or a Compass? Are there BOGO deals going on that I don't know about?

Dude, I can't agree more! 

 

There are soooooooo many better vehicles out there than those 15 year old little SUVs. 

 

If there is a BOGO I'll go havzies(halvsies/halfzies) with you on a pair of them so we'll each get one for 50% off. 

Sure thing. I'll just turn around and sell mine anyway. Neither are worth half of they are asking for IMO.

[G. David Felt]

Interesting that you can get a pretty loaded patriot or compass for $180 a month on a 36 month lease.

 

Course depending on model they are selling here in the greater seattle area from $10K to $16K new out the door. So I guess lots will get sold as long as they are cheap to buy.

[ocnblu]

Check out the solid sales performance of the Jeep ® Renegade!  It enjoyed the second-best sales increase of any FCA product!  GO RENY GO!!

[Suaviloquent]

Something interesting is that the 500X is probably the most compelling Fiat, and it's sales did not overcome the losses in the other two models. 

[regfootball]

How in the world do 92,000 people have a Patriot or a Compass? Are there BOGO deals going on that I don't know about?

they (compass and Patrirot) are the worst products available on the modern market and yet look at how Sergio sells the sht out of them.  And all the rest of FCA's ancient products.  It's stunning how old all the products are and look at the sales!

 

Look at that drop in Chrysler 200 sales....and Chrysler in general is teetering on being a niche brand itself.

 

It's all mind boggling, but hey i vowed never to drive a Chrysler and there's one in my garage.  Somehow Chrysler had made a living off of repackaging the aging bones.  The bill is coming due soon though.  Can they survive aside from pickups and Jeeps.

Edited June 2, 2016 by regfootball

[Stew]

As someone who owned a trouble-free 07 Patriot bought new for 126k miles and 5 years they are actually decent vehicles, especially for the price.  Mine was a basic Sport with AWD/2.4/manual.  it was actually adequately fun to run around with the stick.  I averaged 26-30 MPG and got as high as mid 30s on a highway run.  They are far roomier than their size suggests and the folding rear and passenger seats made for very good cargo carrying capacity.  ven in 07 the had standard stability control, traction control, and brake force distribution.  Mine tracked well and performed excellent offroad even though it didn't have a low range.  It also had neat features such as a 2 prong outlet, rechargable flashlight, which seems silly until ou have it but comes in hand pretty often, a loackable 4wd system that actually allowed you to lock the awd system 50/50 when needed.  It also had the rear axle disconnect connect long before the Cherokee and Renegade and you could leave the AWD in auto.  Yes, 07-08 interior left a bit to be desired, but the 09+ interior, which has received upgrades basically every year, is very nice.  It is far and away the best vehicle in snow I have EVER owned.  The price is thousands less than anything else their size comparably equipped too.  And no, he rebates are nowhere near what you would think they are. 

[ccap41]

 

 

How in the world do 92,000 people have a Patriot or a Compass? Are there BOGO deals going on that I don't know about?

Dude, I can't agree more! 

 

There are soooooooo many better vehicles out there than those 15 year old little SUVs. 

 

If there is a BOGO I'll go havzies(halvsies/halfzies) with you on a pair of them so we'll each get one for 50% off. 

Sure thing. I'll just turn around and sell mine anyway. Neither are worth half of they are asking for IMO.

 

That's about all I'd do as well but if we could get them for half off.. there's gotta be some left for us to profit on!

[surreal1272]

As someone who owned a trouble-free 07 Patriot bought new for 126k miles and 5 years they are actually decent vehicles, especially for the price. Mine was a basic Sport with AWD/2.4/manual. it was actually adequately fun to run around with the stick. I averaged 26-30 MPG and got as high as mid 30s on a highway run. They are far roomier than their size suggests and the folding rear and passenger seats made for very good cargo carrying capacity. ven in 07 the had standard stability control, traction control, and brake force distribution. Mine tracked well and performed excellent offroad even though it didn't have a low range. It also had neat features such as a 2 prong outlet, rechargable flashlight, which seems silly until ou have it but comes in hand pretty often, a loackable 4wd system that actually allowed you to lock the awd system 50/50 when needed. It also had the rear axle disconnect connect long before the Cherokee and Renegade and you could leave the AWD in auto. Yes, 07-08 interior left a bit to be desired, but the 09+ interior, which has received upgrades basically every year, is very nice. It is far and away the best vehicle in snow I have EVER owned. The price is thousands less than anything else their size comparably equipped too. And no, he rebates are nowhere near what you would think they are.

It may be a "decent" car for you but overall, it is so far behind the competition in every way, I just can't see a compelling reason to shell out five figures for one. Edited June 3, 2016 by surreal1272

[Stew]

 

As someone who owned a trouble-free 07 Patriot bought new for 126k miles and 5 years they are actually decent vehicles, especially for the price. Mine was a basic Sport with AWD/2.4/manual. it was actually adequately fun to run around with the stick. I averaged 26-30 MPG and got as high as mid 30s on a highway run. They are far roomier than their size suggests and the folding rear and passenger seats made for very good cargo carrying capacity. ven in 07 the had standard stability control, traction control, and brake force distribution. Mine tracked well and performed excellent offroad even though it didn't have a low range. It also had neat features such as a 2 prong outlet, rechargable flashlight, which seems silly until ou have it but comes in hand pretty often, a loackable 4wd system that actually allowed you to lock the awd system 50/50 when needed. It also had the rear axle disconnect connect long before the Cherokee and Renegade and you could leave the AWD in auto. Yes, 07-08 interior left a bit to be desired, but the 09+ interior, which has received upgrades basically every year, is very nice. It is far and away the best vehicle in snow I have EVER owned. The price is thousands less than anything else their size comparably equipped too. And no, he rebates are nowhere near what you would think they are.

It may be a "decent" car for you but overall, it is so far behind the competition in every way, I just can't see a compelling reason to shell out five figures for one.

 

Considering the price of other SUV's in the segment you get a lot for your money. yes, it is certainly time for a replacement and it is coming soon, but they still offer a lot for the money ou pay, yes 5 digits, but low 5 digits.   Honestly what was really holding them back was the CVT.  You'll notice that once the 6 speed auto became available in 14, that is when sales starting climbing at a fast clip.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Stew

[ccap41]

They just sell because they're dirt cheap because they don't do any one thing better than any of their competitors. Maybe something like ground clearance.. 

[regfootball]

i didn't drive the manual, but a rental in a compass was dreadful.  terrible cvt, terrible ride, overall couldn't wait to get out of it.  A patriot test drive with cvt once was the same deal.

 

It's possible the manual changes the entire perception of the vehicle.

[Stew]

They just sell because they're dirt cheap because they don't do any one thing better than any of their competitors. Maybe something like ground clearance.. 

 

Ground clearance, approach and departure angles.  The room is great and the nifty features i mentioned.  The ability to lock the AWD system 50/50 which most don't offer, The FE, at least for the manual I had was better than I am sure I could get from the others.  Talking taks where I averaged over 30 in mixed and got mid 30s on the highway.  It has the tightest turning radius of any vehicle I think i have ever driven too so maneuverability is a big point.  And how many have reclining rear seats and a 120 volt outlet?  It really is a good runabout.  It offers touch screen with nav and everything and a rear backup camera now.  The only thing i could think of that it is really missing is backup sensors and crosspatch detection. 

[Stew]

i didn't drive the manual, but a rental in a compass was dreadful.  terrible cvt, terrible ride, overall couldn't wait to get out of it.  A patriot test drive with cvt once was the same deal.

 

It's possible the manual changes the entire perception of the vehicle.

 

The CVT is utterly dreadful barnone.    I went with the manual simply because i hated the CVT so much.  The manual is actually a good one.  Smooth, easy to use.  it is what I learned to drive a manual on actually.  it helps too that the shifter is mounted with a short stick like a car.  it also makes it much quicker.  The manual runs mid 8s to 60 which is pretty average for the class, but the CVT is mid 9s to 10.  No one has ever tested the 6 speed auto though.  The 5 speed also destroys the CVT in FE, my lowest tank was 26 and plenty of times I would average in the 30s for a tank.  the CVT seems lucky to match my lowest tank.  I you ever have a chance take an AWD/manual for a drive you might be pleasantly surprised.

[ccap41]

Aaaaaaaaaand 0.1% of people take these CUVs off road so all that increased ride height and departure angles get you is worse mileage and worse driving characteristics..what people use that drive these.

 

Maneuverability is completely your opinion unless you've driven all of the little CUVs to actually say it is better or worse. 

 

My Escape has reclining rear seats and a 12v outlet. I would assume with the Escape being one of the older CUVs the others have them as well as they're newer.  

[ocnblu]

The two things I did not care for in my Patriot were the CVT and the tiny fuel tank.  Other than that, I enjoyed it.

[smk4565]

How in the world do 92,000 people have a Patriot or a Compass? Are there BOGO deals going on that I don't know about?

I bet they are 90% fleet sales.

[smk4565]

FCA proving they don't need 3 mainstream car brands.  Their car sales are all in the tank, and they don't even have any replacements lined up for most of their products they have on sale now.

 

I do like the Jeep Renegade, Jeep is all this company has, the rest is bankruptcy in waiting if gas prices spike or the economy tanks.

[ocnblu]

This little terrier makes me happy... tiny fuel tank and all.

[Stew]

Aaaaaaaaaand 0.1% of people take these CUVs off road so all that increased ride height and departure angles get you is worse mileage and worse driving characteristics..what people use that drive these.

 

Maneuverability is completely your opinion unless you've driven all of the little CUVs to actually say it is better or worse. 

 

My Escape has reclining rear seats and a 12v outlet. I would assume with the Escape being one of the older CUVs the others have them as well as they're newer.  

More than you think do.  I did mine and always surprised at how capable it was even sans he off-road package. Maneuverability is more than an opinion.  A Patriot is actually smaller and shorter than basically everything else in the class.  it slots right between the Renegade and Cherokee in size.  it also has a VERY tight turning circle.  I am not even saying anything bad about any other CUV's, just stating that the Patriot does have it's perks.  Oh, and the locking 4x4 system makes the thing basically unstoppable in the snow. 

[Stew]

This little terrier makes me happy... tiny fuel tank and all.

 

The Renegade Trailhawk is such a little terrier.My big hope is that it gets a version of the new turbo 4.  I also wish it would get the Cherokees locking rear differential and of course a Comanche variant.  It shouldn't be too long before we see the Compass/Patriot replacement.  It should be nice, everything points to mini Grand Cherokee and can't wait to see it's Trailhawk version.

[surreal1272]

Aaaaaaaaaand 0.1% of people take these CUVs off road so all that increased ride height and departure angles get you is worse mileage and worse driving characteristics..what people use that drive these.

 

Maneuverability is completely your opinion unless you've driven all of the little CUVs to actually say it is better or worse. 

 

My Escape has reclining rear seats and a 12v outlet. I would assume with the Escape being one of the older CUVs the others have them as well as they're newer.  

More than you think do.  I did mine and always surprised at how capable it was even sans he off-road package. Maneuverability is more than an opinion.  A Patriot is actually smaller and shorter than basically everything else in the class.  it slots right between the Renegade and Cherokee in size.  it also has a VERY tight turning circle.  I am not even saying anything bad about any other CUV's, just stating that the Patriot does have it's perks.  Oh, and the locking 4x4 system makes the thing basically unstoppable in the snow.

I think you are overestimating the number of people who actually take those two CUVs off-road. I live in the desert and yet to see any of those off road ever. Hell, people barely take their Wranglers off road anymore.

[ccap41]

 

Aaaaaaaaaand 0.1% of people take these CUVs off road so all that increased ride height and departure angles get you is worse mileage and worse driving characteristics..what people use that drive these.

 

Maneuverability is completely your opinion unless you've driven all of the little CUVs to actually say it is better or worse. 

 

My Escape has reclining rear seats and a 12v outlet. I would assume with the Escape being one of the older CUVs the others have them as well as they're newer.  

More than you think do.  I did mine and always surprised at how capable it was even sans he off-road package. Maneuverability is more than an opinion.  A Patriot is actually smaller and shorter than basically everything else in the class.  it slots right between the Renegade and Cherokee in size.  it also has a VERY tight turning circle.  I am not even saying anything bad about any other CUV's, just stating that the Patriot does have it's perks.  Oh, and the locking 4x4 system makes the thing basically unstoppable in the snow. 

 

How can one measure maneuverability? 

 

I understand it is more than an opinion but in this case you're just saying your opinion, unless you've taken all of the other CUVs out for test drives as well..

 

So it has ONE thing going for it, locking 4X4. 

 

I'm not saying it is a bad overall vehicle. I'm saying for 2016 it is dated and nothing is better than any competition, aside from locking 4X4 which has proven unnecessary by the competition. It was a good vehicle in 1999 when they came out. 2016, not so much. Things change and advance and the Patriot and Compass just haven't. 

[Stew]

They came out in 2007 on what was then a new platform with all new engines, etc.  Maneuverability is measurable.  Turning radius of 17.4 feet compared to 19 feet for example on a 13 Escape.  Maneuverability is measurable using simple measurements such as turning radius, turning circle, length, width, and size.  It has nothing to do with any feel, but rather how much room does it take to turn.  And why a lot may not be better than others, it does match them.  I guess the newest I have been in is a new CRV.  It rode worse than a Patriot, it managed to have tons of bodyrool AND a harsh ride.  The engine/CVT combo came across as even more strained than a Patriot, and except for the dash materials were even worse inside.  That is comparing to the top seller in the segment. 

 

Surreal, I am not talking CUVs as a whole, but a lot o Patriots see offroad duty.  They even have an aftermarket with an available lift-kit, rockrails, etc, etc. 

[ccap41]

They came out in 2007 on what was then a new platform with all new engines, etc.  Maneuverability is measurable.  Turning radius of 17.4 feet compared to 19 feet for example on a 13 Escape.  Maneuverability is measurable using simple measurements such as turning radius, turning circle, length, width, and size.  It has nothing to do with any feel, but rather how much room does it take to turn.  And why a lot may not be better than others, it does match them.  I guess the newest I have been in is a new CRV.  It rode worse than a Patriot, it managed to have tons of bodyrool AND a harsh ride.  The engine/CVT combo came across as even more strained than a Patriot, and except for the dash materials were even worse inside.  That is comparing to the top seller in the segment. 

 

Surreal, I am not talking CUVs as a whole, but a lot o Patriots see offroad duty.  They even have an aftermarket with an available lift-kit, rockrails, etc, etc. 

To go alone with the maneuverability, there is more than just the turning radius that makes something maneuverable, right?  What is the steering ratio, the resistance of the steering wheel, the time it takes a suspension to settle going from side to side to maintain its stability? All of those are characteristics of a very maneuverable vehicle, not just how tight it can drive in a circle. 

 

1999 was obviously a jokingly exaggeration because of how dated they are... 

 

Odd that your choice vehicle dated back to 2007 seemed to drive better to you than a Honda.. If your patriot is so much better off road than a new CRV then it will also drive like it. It's super hard to believe that a much more car-based CRV built for 2016 has a worse drive than a 2007 Patriot that is off road capable.

[Stew]

 

They came out in 2007 on what was then a new platform with all new engines, etc.  Maneuverability is measurable.  Turning radius of 17.4 feet compared to 19 feet for example on a 13 Escape.  Maneuverability is measurable using simple measurements such as turning radius, turning circle, length, width, and size.  It has nothing to do with any feel, but rather how much room does it take to turn.  And why a lot may not be better than others, it does match them.  I guess the newest I have been in is a new CRV.  It rode worse than a Patriot, it managed to have tons of bodyrool AND a harsh ride.  The engine/CVT combo came across as even more strained than a Patriot, and except for the dash materials were even worse inside.  That is comparing to the top seller in the segment. 

 

Surreal, I am not talking CUVs as a whole, but a lot o Patriots see offroad duty.  They even have an aftermarket with an available lift-kit, rockrails, etc, etc. 

To go alone with the maneuverability, there is more than just the turning radius that makes something maneuverable, right?  What is the steering ratio, the resistance of the steering wheel, the time it takes a suspension to settle going from side to side to maintain its stability? All of those are characteristics of a very maneuverable vehicle, not just how tight it can drive in a circle. 

 

1999 was obviously a jokingly exaggeration because of how dated they are... 

 

Odd that your choice vehicle dated back to 2007 seemed to drive better to you than a Honda.. If your patriot is so much better off road than a new CRV then it will also drive like it. It's super hard to believe that a much more car-based CRV built for 2016 has a worse drive than a 2007 Patriot that is off road capable.

 

I am actually saying Honda did a horrible job and is way overrated lol.  I do not think it is anywhere near best in class.  I also quoted a number of factors for the maneuverability.  I think you may be confusing handling with maneuverability which i am mainly stating as he ability to turn at low speeds in tight spaces in parking lots for example and also just happens to be a boon off-road too.  The patriot is simply not as bad as you are saying.  It did get a major refresh in 11 and again in 14, though that was more additional interior enhancements and under the skin.  It is really pretty different than the 07 in many ways.  As much as the 14-16 GM Lamdas are heavily revised and still very good vehicles even though they too have been around since 07.  Notice their sales are pretty strong too. 

[surreal1272]

They came out in 2007 on what was then a new platform with all new engines, etc.  Maneuverability is measurable.  Turning radius of 17.4 feet compared to 19 feet for example on a 13 Escape.  Maneuverability is measurable using simple measurements such as turning radius, turning circle, length, width, and size.  It has nothing to do with any feel, but rather how much room does it take to turn.  And why a lot may not be better than others, it does match them.  I guess the newest I have been in is a new CRV.  It rode worse than a Patriot, it managed to have tons of bodyrool AND a harsh ride.  The engine/CVT combo came across as even more strained than a Patriot, and except for the dash materials were even worse inside.  That is comparing to the top seller in the segment. 

 

Surreal, I am not talking CUVs as a whole, but a lot o Patriots see offroad duty.  They even have an aftermarket with an available lift-kit, rockrails, etc, etc.

They have off-road kits for all sorts of SUVs. That doesn't mean they ever see off road duty and you know that for a fact and if you don't, you are fooling yourself because you are trying to justify owning one. That's all fine and dandy. If it works for you, great but no one outside of yourself would dare say that the Patriot and Compass are even close to competition overall. They are woefully behind as a matter of fact and rely on heavy fleet sales to keep their numbers up, just like the first gen Escape for so many years until the 2013 redesign.

[Suaviloquent]

Jeep is a brand that exists only because of utility vehicles.

 

But I'm sure Jeep should no longer be willing to serve both mainstream and high-end folks with the 2 Cherokee named models, and the Wagoneer, and still have the Patriot and Compass around. I would think the Renegade is poised to be able to supplant both of them.

[Stew]

 

They came out in 2007 on what was then a new platform with all new engines, etc.  Maneuverability is measurable.  Turning radius of 17.4 feet compared to 19 feet for example on a 13 Escape.  Maneuverability is measurable using simple measurements such as turning radius, turning circle, length, width, and size.  It has nothing to do with any feel, but rather how much room does it take to turn.  And why a lot may not be better than others, it does match them.  I guess the newest I have been in is a new CRV.  It rode worse than a Patriot, it managed to have tons of bodyrool AND a harsh ride.  The engine/CVT combo came across as even more strained than a Patriot, and except for the dash materials were even worse inside.  That is comparing to the top seller in the segment. 

 

Surreal, I am not talking CUVs as a whole, but a lot o Patriots see offroad duty.  They even have an aftermarket with an available lift-kit, rockrails, etc, etc.

They have off-road kits for all sorts of SUVs. That doesn't mean they ever see off road duty and you know that for a fact and if you don't, you are fooling yourself because you are trying to justify owning one. That's all fine and dandy. If it works for you, great but no one outside of yourself would dare say that the Patriot and Compass are even close to competition overall. They are woefully behind as a matter of fact and rely on heavy fleet sales to keep their numbers up, just like the first gen Escape for so many years until the 2013 redesign.

 

Check www.jeeppatriot.com.  You will be shocked of the amount taken offroad and the modifications done.  I actually owned one and have stated m case.  i would own another, though I am looking really forward to the replacement. 

[Stew]

Jeep is a brand that exists only because of utility vehicles.

 

But I'm sure Jeep should no longer be willing to serve both mainstream and high-end folks with the 2 Cherokee named models, and the Wagoneer, and still have the Patriot and Compass around. I would think the Renegade is poised to be able to supplant both of them.

 

The Renegade is basically the Patriot replacement because of size.  the official replacement coming very soon is going to wear mini Grand cherokee styling so it is basically the Compass replacement style-wise.  The ComPat has served well and made tons of profit for jeep and the pricing can't be beat.  i never said it wasn't time for a replacement, but the current models do have their merits. 

[Suaviloquent]

Wasn't the Cherokee....supposed to be the mini Grand Cherokee? Or is that some twisted logic? Oh goddamn it. Jeep is doing exactly what Land Rover does, except cheaper, better value for money, and probably better reliability.

[ccap41]

 

 

They came out in 2007 on what was then a new platform with all new engines, etc.  Maneuverability is measurable.  Turning radius of 17.4 feet compared to 19 feet for example on a 13 Escape.  Maneuverability is measurable using simple measurements such as turning radius, turning circle, length, width, and size.  It has nothing to do with any feel, but rather how much room does it take to turn.  And why a lot may not be better than others, it does match them.  I guess the newest I have been in is a new CRV.  It rode worse than a Patriot, it managed to have tons of bodyrool AND a harsh ride.  The engine/CVT combo came across as even more strained than a Patriot, and except for the dash materials were even worse inside.  That is comparing to the top seller in the segment. 

 

Surreal, I am not talking CUVs as a whole, but a lot o Patriots see offroad duty.  They even have an aftermarket with an available lift-kit, rockrails, etc, etc.

They have off-road kits for all sorts of SUVs. That doesn't mean they ever see off road duty and you know that for a fact and if you don't, you are fooling yourself because you are trying to justify owning one. That's all fine and dandy. If it works for you, great but no one outside of yourself would dare say that the Patriot and Compass are even close to competition overall. They are woefully behind as a matter of fact and rely on heavy fleet sales to keep their numbers up, just like the first gen Escape for so many years until the 2013 redesign.

 

Check www.jeeppatriot.com.  You will be shocked of the amount taken offroad and the modifications done.  I actually owned one and have stated m case.  i would own another, though I am looking really forward to the replacement. 

 

And there are a lot of people tuning and putting intakes and exhaust on escapes on the forums too but that doesn't mean they are race escapes now or that they would be good on a race track.. It doesn't mean that there are a few hundred people out of the hundred and hundreds of thousands of people buying these really matter. 

 

Owning one doesn't magically make it not dated and behind every other small CUV. I own an Escape but that doesn't mean it is the best small CUV.

 

To me it is the most maneuverable, gets over 30mpg if I'm cruising, and w/ AWD it is surprisingly great off road all while being whisper quiet on-road. - sound like somebody else's opinion here?

[surreal1272]

They came out in 2007 on what was then a new platform with all new engines, etc. Maneuverability is measurable. Turning radius of 17.4 feet compared to 19 feet for example on a 13 Escape. Maneuverability is measurable using simple measurements such as turning radius, turning circle, length, width, and size. It has nothing to do with any feel, but rather how much room does it take to turn. And why a lot may not be better than others, it does match them. I guess the newest I have been in is a new CRV. It rode worse than a Patriot, it managed to have tons of bodyrool AND a harsh ride. The engine/CVT combo came across as even more strained than a Patriot, and except for the dash materials were even worse inside. That is comparing to the top seller in the segment.

Surreal, I am not talking CUVs as a whole, but a lot o Patriots see offroad duty. They even have an aftermarket with an available lift-kit, rockrails, etc, etc.

They have off-road kits for all sorts of SUVs. That doesn't mean they ever see off road duty and you know that for a fact and if you don't, you are fooling yourself because you are trying to justify owning one. That's all fine and dandy. If it works for you, great but no one outside of yourself would dare say that the Patriot and Compass are even close to competition overall. They are woefully behind as a matter of fact and rely on heavy fleet sales to keep their numbers up, just like the first gen Escape for so many years until the 2013 redesign.

Check www.jeeppatriot.com. You will be shocked of the amount taken offroad and the modifications done. I actually owned one and have stated m case. i would own another, though I am looking really forward to the replacement.

Again Stew, I'm not dogging you out because you own one. If you're happy with it, that's great. However, this does not change the fact that,

A. It is woefully behind the completion.

And

B. Part of that competition is the Renegade that was supposed to replace the Patriot. The fact that the renegade exists proves that the Patriot was long overdue to be replaced. It's not even debatable on that level.

Btw, a few off-road videos does not change the fact that he majority never see off road duty. Not even going to debate it further since you want to take it so personal.

Edited June 6, 2016 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

Wasn't the Cherokee....supposed to be the mini Grand Cherokee? Or is that some twisted logic? Oh goddamn it. Jeep is doing exactly what Land Rover does, except cheaper, better value for money, and probably better reliability.

Not if this new one is all built and designed by FCA...

 

I would have agreed hands-down two years ago. 

[Stew]

Just to keep rom a bunch of quotes here goes.

 

1.  By maneuverability i meant by the numbers.  i could turn that puppy in crazy small places too.  No biggie, silly argument.

 

2.  I said it was time for a replacement and said the Renegade for all intense and purposes is the replacement for the Patriot while the upcoming CUV is more a replacement for the Compass complete with mini Grand Cherokee styling.  I am also glad the will be much more differentiated that time.

 

3.  I said features for price it is still a good deal.  Even sticker to sticker a comparable model from another manufacturer will be thousands more.  Even the smaller Renegade is pricier feature for feature.  And i also stated that least the manual equipped model drives very well, which it does.  I also said the CVT sucks.  I just mentioned it's maneuverability, locking 4x4 which is great in the snow, and the features it has that matches others since the comment was made that it basically doesn't have them.  Also, the Compass sells plenty to rental lots yes, but I don't see any Patriots. 

[Suaviloquent]

The Honda CR-V was just as cheapened as the 2012 Civic, except since it was a roomy crossover, many things were overlooked.

 

However. The updated CR-v was a Motortrend of the Year winner. I have a hard time believing on any measure that the Patriot is any value close to that distinction, as well Hondas have typically the best resale values out there of any make.

 

And even if Compatriot users use their vehicles off-road, it's just a fraction of the fraction of the population who buys CUVs, and more than anything people might take the Jeep off-road because it's a Jeep - and it's rather affordable.

 

Though Honda's mainstream AWD is among the least reactive to sending power rear in limited slip situations.

[ocnblu]

Don't make me post the same guy's test video of an Escape on the same off-road route. 

 

I was comparing prices of the Escape SE Sport AWD 1.5L v. the Renegade Trailhawk.  The Ford is a bigger vehicle for about the same price, with comparable fuel mileage ratings but a bigger fuel tank.  But it makes not even a pretense of being off-road capable, even on the occasional lark.  It's just the "readiness" of the Jeep that makes it appealing, that and its totally Jack Russell looks.  Plus the Jeep 2.4 is naturally aspirated.

 

For someone looking for a sedate tall wagon with all-weather road driving security, the Escape is nicer than a majority of the competition.  The Equinox/Terrain, for example, have not aged well, especially the interiors.  I love the looks of a Canyon Ridge Escape SE AWD Sport... GM's attempts at staying current with the Equinox/Terrain have been half-hearted.  The latest RAV4 is super ugly since the MCE.  The CR-V looks like a platypus.

 

Nothing beats the Jeep for image, and the Renegade and Cherokee can back up their swagger with a measure of better performance in adverse conditions.  No other CUV can touch them... except maybe certain Subarus... and then you are relegated to a CVT... unless you want to search a 500 mile radius for a stick shift.

 

The most important thing that gave the Patriot a new lease on life is the conventional 6-speed automatic transmission.  It is interesting to me seeing the Patriot parked next to a Renegade on the Jeep lot... the Renegade is visibly much taller... kind of like when the old, beloved small Cherokee was replaced with the Liberty.  The Liberty seemed taller and shorter than the old Cherokee.  The Patriot's looks are a warm and fuzzy throwback to that old Cherokee, and that is part of its charm.

Edited June 6, 2016 by ocnblu