Cadillac Renaissance: Miracle or Mirage?

[pow]

As Cadillac's renaissance enters Phase Two, can its products really compete against the best from BMW, AMG Mercedes and Lexus?

By DAN CARNEY Email

Date posted: 05-11-2006

Since the launch of Cadillac's revitalized models such as the Escalade and the CTS, the company has promised to return to its one-time benchmark, "The Standard of the World." Today, that means beating competition from BMW (including the company's M performance division), Mercedes-Benz (likewise AMG) and Lexus.

The thinking at GM goes like this: If the company can take on the likes of the BMW M5, Mercedes' SL65 AMG and Lexus' LX 470 SUV, then surely the company's other brands can beat their respective competitors.

There is significant validity to this thesis. Cadillac sales have increased 37 percent since 2001 and the company outsold Mercedes-Benz in the U.S. in 2005. The cars are smarter-looking and more rewarding to drive than ever. Cadillac's success is in stark contrast to its rapidly fading crosstown rival Lincoln, which sold barely more than half as many cars as Cadillac last year.

The problem with Cadillac, GM and domestic manufacturers in general, however, is the unfortunate tendency to benchmark against one's own previous products, rather than against the latest and future BMW M3, Mercedes CLK63 AMG and Lexus GS 450h. Those are the cars that must be defeated in the showrooms for the company to succeed.

Admit it: You've asked yourself this question

With the launch of the new 2007 Escalade, Cadillac has announced the beginning of Phase Two of its renaissance. But the question that can rightly be posed regarding Phase One is whether it was truly the miracle Cadillac claims, or just a mirage that is apt to dissipate in the face of increasingly fierce foreign competition.

The question is not asked out of some pro-import bias, but out of the belief that only by topping the competition, feature for feature and dollar for dollar, can Cadillac reclaim its stake as the "Standard of the World." The company is reaching for that banner now, but some product shortcomings may suggest that the reach is still premature.

Today's Cadillac lineup is excellent, with the popular Escalade, zoomy XLR and sporty CTS. GM is justifiably proud of the achievements since the dim days of the Eldorado, Fleetwood and Catera.

"It is hard to remember now, but six years ago Cadillac was still literally on the ropes," recalled Detroit gadfly and publisher of the Autoextremist.com blog, Peter DeLorenzo. "Their vehicles were out of touch," he said. "Cadillac was strictly a deteriorating country club brand. But now they have street presence."

Phase Two oversights

That is true enough, but "better than ever" doesn't always equate to "best in class" in the American luxury market. "In round two we have to come out with no-excuses products," proclaimed Cadillac General Manager Jim Taylor. "In this round, if we miss something we have to take our lumps and stand tall."

Cadillac knows, for example, that it must stand tall in the face of some hiccups in the all-new Renaissance Phase Two-era Escalade.

The power windows have no one-touch express-up function, like those you'd find, for example, on every Volkswagen Jetta, for all four windows. The steering wheel tilt is not only manual rather than power adjustable, it adjusts in the huge, clunky increments one might associate with some commercial truck.

The key has no built-in remote control functions, like those you'd find on, say, a Toyota Yaris economy car. Instead, the Phase Two Escalade's key ring includes a key and old-fashioned separate fob with the remote functions.

The good news here is that the antiquated key fob isn't present as the result of some negligent oversight. Cadillac will replace the keys in all its models with ones that incorporate remote functions, but because of the differing engineering schedules for each model, those keys won't be available until summer, explained Taylor.

Such is the case with all of the product details that Cadillac realizes are needed, but absent. "It isn't generally something that is missed," Taylor said. "There is usually a story around it." That means that there is some production capacity, engineering commonality or corporate intrigue sort of obstacle that prevented Cadillac from executing on that particular detail.

So Cadillac folks aren't blind to the competition, or stupid, or careless; they are bogged down by GM's bureaucracy. "But consumers don't care" about the source of the shortcomings, acknowledges Taylor.

Fulfilling present expectations

At the same time, the "overall integrity and design" of the Escalade are so strong that customers will forgive these oversights, asserts DeLorenzo. But the company might not find luxury sedan buyers as forgiving as SUV buyers. Certainly, at the prices of the high-performance "V" models, Cadillac buyers have the right to be extremely discerning, and some expectations have yet to be fulfilled.

Take the new STS-V, for example. It has the same horsepower rating as the mighty Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG, but it doesn't deliver the same visceral thrill that taunts the driver into misbehaving. The Mercedes-Benz E55, BMW M5 and M3, and Caddy's own CTS-V snarl and snap, reminding the driver of the potential under his right foot.

The STS-V seems to doze off, like a Pompano Beach retiree in his La-Z-Boy — still sharp as ever, just taking a little rest. Once roused, the STS-V can deliver the goods, but it is far too easy to draw the wrong conclusion from its quiet cruising attitude.

Defining a future direction

One way that Cadillac can truly take the fight to Europe's Old World prestige powers is to compete in their markets. The company has taken that step with the development of the Saab-derived BLS, a compact front-drive sedan that gives European Cadillac dealers the four-cylinder and diesel engines they need to attract customers in the volume to justify selling the brand. Meanwhile, they will be able to show off CTS and STS models that a few of those shoppers might consider.

At home, Cadillac will soon roll out a higher-performance CTS-V, followed by a new CTS that will reinforce the current model's many strengths, while correcting its obvious weaknesses, such as the cheap-looking interior. Perhaps that car will be the first, true no-excuses example of Cadillac's Phase Two hardware. "The next-generation CTS will have to have bulletproof execution" to sustain the renaissance, agreed Cadillac's Taylor.

DeLorenzo, who has seen a preview of the CTS, says he thinks it will. "I think this vehicle is the first direct threat to the BMW 3 Series," he predicted.

Cadillac fans, and anyone who thinks GM can punch its way out of the corner it has backed into, hope he is right.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Featu...rticleId=114950

[Northstar]

Good read.

If the CTS does seriously threaten the 3-Series, that will be a great accomplishment for Cadillac. Hopefully it comes with the 3.6L HF V6 with DI making 310HP standard, but I'm guessing we'll see a ~240HP DI 2.8 as the base engine.

Cadillac is going to need some engine upgrades to stay competitive. With the rumored 310HP on the 3.6 it should be fine, but the Northstar is going to need to be redone or replaced. If the V6 is making 310HP, the V8 needs to be up near 380-390HP like the new MB V8.

[Mr.Krinkle]

i think caddy has the roll to do whatever they want now. and i think they will have all the success in the world.

as far as the comparo between the benz e55 amg and sts-v--im not all that wild about that. as much as ive heard what a rocket that car is, and i dont doubt it, i hear its also not all that track suitable or light enough to truly enjoy.

and if it has the brake by wire its only worse.

that car has world conquering torque as ive heard it referenced to...500+

thats what everyone loves.

i think most of us hear realized that long, long ago.

[hyperv6]

Caddy is going in the right direction and may not have all the tools yet but they will compete with the best in due time. You have to walk before you run and they were not even standing a few years ago.

If Caddy had not changed direction they would be just as Lincoln is now, on life support!

Edited May 14, 2006 by hyperv6

[enzl]

While I'm thrilled with Caddy's direction, it would be great to be able to assume greatness, like with BMW 5 series (which, despite the questionable design, is still quite a ride.)

One of Lutz' true tests is his stewardship of Caddy's 2nd gen. of new cars since the renaissance.

[tmp]

I love Cadillac, and they have been in the unique position of being at the exact right place at the exact right time. At the nano-second that Mercedes foisted cars with abysmal quality on the world and decided to introduce a model for everyone including the Gremlin like C-Coupe while BMW debuted Bangleised big-assed cars crippled with iDrive (why Apple never sued, I don't know) and Lexus made their cars even more like a three year old Buick than a three year old Buick, Cadillac came out with cars with some attitude. They weren't perfect, yet, but they were there. They started to resonate with buyers again.

The first CTS's I saw in LA were in Koreatown, being driven by Asians (which I thought was interesting, and pretty cool); it took a while before I started to see them on the Westside. With each model introduction, I saw more and more of them in my neighborhood. STS's started showing up, XLR's and now the new Escalade. I'm seeing more Cadillacs in Beverly Hills than I would have when Liz Taylor and Dino still boozed it up at the Luau.

Cadillac really got it right, and really lucked out. Sadly for Mercedes, they still seem not to get it. BMW seems to have cleaned up it's act: the 3-Series is the least hideous of the Bangled cars, and it handles like a 3-Series. I can't wait to see how the new CTS stacks up.

[Cadillacfan]

He does bring up a good point about GM. While they do bring out better cars, they only benchmark previous sedans instead of competitors.

Now, with Lutz, that's starting to change. The interior is going to be hot from the spy shots and it better drive well because I predict that the CTS will be the first serious entry into the European market.. I can guarantee it. The BLS doesn't really count since it's a stop-gap vehicle.

the next generation cadillacs will be global sport/ luxury vehicles from what has been speculated and that's good news for all of us.

[Intrepidation]

Do you think the next CTS will have a truely integrated center stack? If Hyundai can do it...Caddy should be able to

[regfootball]

i doubt gm planners really want caddy to be absolute top dog because there are less customers at 60,000-100,000 dollar price points than there is at the 40-70k price points. The DTS which is a volume leader for them still needs to appeal to the 'almost wealthy' masses (i.e. old folks) who buy the car. There's not enough business in the vain set to sustain a large ascension of Cadillac into near six figure territory. Caddy needs to be somewhat volume based and still sprinkle in some more expensive halo cars like the XLR and XLRv to give them the cache they need.

[Newbiewar]

i doubt gm planners really want caddy to be absolute top dog because there are less customers at 60,000-100,000 dollar price points than there is at the 40-70k price points.  The DTS which is a volume leader for them still needs to appeal to the 'almost wealthy' masses (i.e. old folks) who buy the car.  There's not enough business in the vain set to sustain a large ascension of Cadillac into near six figure territory.  Caddy needs to be somewhat volume based and still sprinkle in some more expensive halo cars like the XLR and XLRv to give them the cache they need.

cadillac is volume based... and so far Cadillac sells the most Luxuary cars in america... (Luxuary cars being defined at vehicles sold at over 42k$)

but what is important to have a Mercedies benz, for half the price with twice the reliablity... and Cadillac will succeed.

but a new engine is needed... next generation cadillacs need a new v8 with over 400hp, and a v12 to throw in the mix....

we cant let the SL65 take the competition with its 604 hp... twin turboed v12...

The most powerful production SL model from Mercedes-Benz, the SL65 offers a 604-horsepower twin-turbocharged V-12 and every AMG race-engineered component available.

EngineAMG-built twin-turbocharged 6.0L SOHC 36-valve V-12 engine

Net Power604 hp @ 4,800 rpm

Net Torque738 lb-ft @ 2,000 - 4,000 rpm

Edited May 12, 2006 by Newbiewar

[Mr.Krinkle]

738? is that number right?

damn.

[ZL-1]

One of Lutz' true tests is his stewardship of Caddy's 2nd gen. of new cars since the renaissance.

Agreed, the follow-up products will be key and at this point Cadillac's success is neither miracle nor mirage. It's a valuable 1st step.

What I'd like to add to your post is that this issue of 'renaissnace'/'miracles' and what not goes far beyond Cadillac and must be allowed to spread to all other GM brands: that is Lutz's biggest challenge.

[RichW5]

A well written article with "constructive criticism" rather than the "I hate Cadillac and GM" criticism I've seen in other articles, and from some posters here at C&G.

I bought my CTS in May of 2002 because of a need to transport our grandson, something my Vette couldn't do. It was a great choice and both my wife and I love to drive the CTS because it's a "drivers car".

I didn't like the dash, especially the hard to use DIC (in the NAV), but you get used to it after a while and it isn't as bad a some people think. Placement of the clock was truely stupid!

Our CTS will be about 5 years old when the NG CTS comes out and while I'm retired (somewhat fixed income), I hope to trade-in the '03 about a year after that.

GM needs to follow up the resurgence of Cadillac with new, better designed and engineered models, in all their divisions. They need to challenge their competitors, not just match them.

[balthazar]

The AMG-tuned mercedes are big performance disappointments relative to their power numbers- they should be much quicker. Either something mechanical is compromised or the numbers are bogus.

Cadillac already is 'succeeding' since they surpassed mercedes in volume. Sales are up 37% since '01, but they are up even more if you go back another handful of years (the arbitrary year of '01 is curious to me). They have taken a monsterous bite out of the entry-level lux segment, surpassing many established players in popularity with the CTS. This (and much more) is all fact and in the history books; how could one even suggest it is a mirage?

I don't think any other marque has ever turned things around so markedly in such a short period of time.

[Robert Hall]

The AMG-tuned mercedes are big performance disappointments relative to their power numbers- they should be much quicker. Either something mechanical is compromised or the numbers are bogus.

I think their weight is the issue...lots of power and torque, but in heavy cars.

[Cadillacfan]

Do you think the next CTS will have a truely integrated center stack? If Hyundai can do it...Caddy should be able to

Take a look at the photos from the 60 minutes special. The prototype interior(which I'm assuming belongs to the next CTS) looks pretty integrated to me. Now, if it stays that way all the way to production then GM is definately on the right track.

[evok]

Cadillac is not out of the woods yet and is not even close. There is no question that sigma is a world class architecture and will continue to form the basis for phase 2. Cadillac's mission with phase 2 needs to correct all that is wrong with phase 1 and it is glairing.

Phase 1 has not been a complete success as it could have been. Not by a long shot. The only 2 real success stories in the market have been the CTS and the Escalade.

The SRX and STS show all that was and may still be wrong with GM. GM lost sight of their vision for Cadillac and hedged there bets on Art and Science. It shows in the sales and lack of consistency with the rest of the line up from the aesthetics point of view.

The Cadillac brand team forgot what the original John Smith A&S focus for Cadillac was all about. Even though the current Escalade is leaps and bounds better than the previous generation, the vehicle is still a schizophrenic blending of old school Cadillac and a watered down A&S.

I do not advocate a stagnation or lack of evolution in A&S, but GM needs to maintain the philosophy of A&S because that is the definition of Cadillac. That is what separates Cadillac from the rest of the luxury market. That lack of focus doomed the first generation SRX and STS when compared to the CTS. And the public was not fooled by Cadillac's lost vision or hedge.

Phase 2 is critical and Lutz/Taylor need to keep Cadillac, with the follow-up to the second generation CTS on focus. I am less concerned with the NG CTS than with the follow up to the SRX and STS. Phase 2 begins in July 2007. We shall see if history will repeat itself.

Edited May 12, 2006 by evok

[Petra]

As enzl said, this next stage will be the true test for Cadillac. They will have to stay focused despite diminshing returns and much increased competition. One lazy, half-baked car at this point could ruin everything, and, as the article says, they messed up on a lot of those all-important little things with the Escalade.

[Mr.Krinkle]

caddy knows what their target is now.

i have no doubt in my mind the ng's will deliver. no more half assing on the insides.

those teaser shots from 60 mins is what will have bmw buyers checking out cadillacs again.

its just aggravating they couldnt put it all together the first time.

on the other hand though, they got some spare change to play around with now.

[Imaj]

Cadillac's on the right track, they are among the top of the list in JD Power and Associates surveys. The sales are increasing and the cars are comparable to the best of the Europe and Japan, but nit winning comparisions, yet.

[Mgoblue2]

Very good read. I agree that they are almost there. Own a 2001 yukon and was waiting for the new Escalade but now I am waiting even more. Hopefully the fall will add DOD, Bluetooth, express windows, and anything else that should be in there already. Also Caddy is becoming a drivers car. I enjoy driving my wifes 2004 cts. Can't wait as the lease is up in Nov 07' Praying that the new cts fixs the not great interior, adds some features and more power!!!! Over all good read

[97regalGS]

Cadillac is not out of the woods yet and is not even close.  There is no question that sigma is a world class architecture and will continue to form the basis for phase 2.  Cadillac's mission with phase 2 needs to correct all that is wrong with phase 1 and it is glairing.

Phase 1 has not been a complete success as it could have been.  Not by a long shot.  The only 2 real success stories in the market have been the CTS and the Escalade.

The SRX and STS show all that was and may still be wrong with GM.  GM lost sight of their vision for Cadillac and hedged there bets on Art and Science.  It shows in the sales and lack of consistency with the rest of the line up from the aesthetics point of view.

The Cadillac brand team forgot what the original John Smith A&S focus for Cadillac was all about.  Even though the current Escalade is leaps and bounds better than the previous generation, the vehicle is still a schizophrenic blending of old school Cadillac and a watered down A&S.

I do not advocate a stagnation or lack of evolution in A&S, but GM needs to maintain the philosophy of A&S because that is the definition of Cadillac.  That is what separates Cadillac from the rest of the luxury market.  That lack of focus doomed the first generation SRX and STS when compared to the CTS.  And the public was not fooled by Cadillac's lost vision or hedge.

Phase 2 is critical and Lutz/Taylor need to keep Cadillac, with the follow-up to the second generation CTS on focus.  I am less concerned with the NG CTS than with the follow up to the SRX and STS.  Phase 2 begins in July 2007.  We shall see if history will repeat itself.

i think evok has nailed it.

all indications are that NG CTS will be a success. the real test is NG STS, SRX and NG BLS/BRX. get those right and we have success. play it safe, like the STS, and it will just be another double instead of a home run.

[The O.C.]

Cadillac's on the right track, they are among the top of the list in JD Power and Associates surveys. The sales are increasing and the cars are comparable to the best of the Europe and Japan, but nit winning comparisions, yet.

Good read......

BUT.....comparable to the best of Europe and Japan....? I'd hesitate to say that.....

The writer also has a GREAT point about all the missing convenience features in the new Escalade....I didn't realize it was lacking all those things....

CTS drives incredibly well and competes on a high level from a ride-and-handling standpoint....and the 3.6L engine is quite a nice powertrain. However, as mentioned before, it's interior trim quality is bottom-of-the-pack.

STS is about as big of a disappointment as you can get.......it's pricing-versus-option packaging is all wrong.....interior packaging isn't that much better than the smaller CTS......it's A&S styling is dumbed down so far it looks "generic" in a sea of $40K-$60K sedans.....and it's interior has sub-par materials.

DTS.....I don't even want to go there. IMHO that car is SO far out of touch with where Cadillac should be setting their sights, it pisses me off to think they even brought it out. It may be their "volume" product....but that's only because of the large number of units put into fleet. DTS does nothing but consumer-perception-damage to all the good things Cadillac HAS accomplished.

Do you see a 3-series driver aspiring to a 5-series....? Or a 7-series....? SURE....

Do you see a C-Class driver aspiring to an E-Class....? S-Class....? Absolutely.....

How do you perceive a CTS driver (that came OUT of an import for sake of argument) aspiring to a DTS...? nah....not gonna happen....

[balthazar]

>>"The SRX and STS show all that was and may still be wrong with GM. GM lost sight of their vision for Cadillac and hedged there bets on Art and Science. It shows in the sales and lack of consistency with the rest of the line up from the aesthetics point of view."<<

Gotta agree- an awful, terrible, wretched POSs. Never got any critical acclaim, either. Junk- would've been better off building nothing in these classes.

The writer also has a GREAT point about all the missing convenience features in the new Escalade....I didn't realize it was lacking all those things....

Right on- no way is all that class-leading HP & TRQ going to make up for no express up windows! I mean; c'mon! This is 2006 not 1906! I'd rather drive a rotted-out nissan with express-ups than a beautiful brand new Escalade! Cadillac will be lucky to move 10K units annually, mark my words.

[evok]

>>"The SRX and STS show all that was and may still be wrong with GM.  GM lost sight of their vision for Cadillac and hedged there bets on Art and Science.  It shows in the sales and lack of consistency with the rest of the line up from the aesthetics point of view."<<

Gotta agree- an awful, terrible, wretched POSs. Never got any critical acclaim, either. Junk- would've been better off building nothing in these classes.

Really are you that f'in illiterate that you cannot read what I wrote?

[deftonesfan867]

I agree with evok, but I belive the SRX to be a world-class vehicle that NEEDS a better interior AND lower price.

[Mr.Krinkle]

Really are you that f'in illiterate that you cannot read what I wrote?

whew! temper, temper.

anyway, cadillac's got some work to do. and i dont think they had any intention of giving up so really whats the big deal. every company likes to tweak their cars and fix shortcomings. thats no real revelation here.

porsche refuses to use blue tooth tech because originally of health concerns. they will update soon. they also refuse satelite radio because of the shark fin antennae they dont find suitable or at least in accordance with their design philosophy.

just about every new benz trumps the outgoing one. same with bimmers-- this is the market cadillac is in now so really they know what they have to do at this point. this is the new order of gm. when people at the helm stress product first i have no trepidation that this time they may really mean it.

dont forget either only a handful of years ago they were almost getting the coffin ready. id say theyrre moving along pretty nicely. with no intention of letting up to boot.

[enzl]

whew!  temper, temper.

anyway, cadillac's got some work to do.  and i dont think they had any intention of giving up so really whats the big deal.  every company likes to tweak their cars and fix shortcomings.  thats no real revelation here.

porsche refuses to use blue tooth tech because originally of health concerns.  they will update soon.  they also refuse satelite radio because of the shark fin antennae they dont find suitable or at least in accordance with their design philosophy.

just about every new benz trumps the outgoing one. same with bimmers-- this is the market cadillac is in now so really they know what they have to do at this point.  this is the new order of gm.  when people at the helm stress product first i have no trepidation that this time they may really mean it.

dont forget either only a handful of years ago they  were almost getting the coffin ready.  id say theyrre moving along pretty nicely.  with no intention of letting up to boot.

Cadillac's newfound life has been, iMO, GM's greatest success of recent memory. I agree with Mr. K (who woulda thunk it?), as the small gaffes of product (SRX was wrong development of Sigma, should've gone 5 passenger, at same price point as CTS--see RX as partial guide) and interior quality (which really hasn't hurt the CTS, but clearly needs improvement) haven't prevented Caddy from getting their footing in a highly competitive market.

As I stated above, the key is the next gen of vehicles...you've gotten alot of people to pony up and buy, now you've got to convince a tougher crowd of converts that the product you build is Demonstrably Better than the competition...I hear a 300 HP 3.6 and a 400hp n* are on the dynos as we speak....No Caddy should leave a factory without one of those two motors....18" wheels and available AWD at every trim level should also be on board...just a few thoughts before my coffee...

[balthazar]

Really are you that f'in illiterate that you cannot read what I wrote?

What; I wasn't agreeing with you?

BTW, if I was "that f'in illiterate" I doubt I could post anything at all.

[evok]

... as the small gaffes of product (SRX was wrong development of Sigma, should've gone 5 passenger, at same price point as CTS--see RX as partial guide) and interior quality (which really hasn't hurt the CTS, but clearly needs improvement) haven't prevented Caddy from getting their footing in a highly competitive market.

The original GMX-265 (SRX) was smaller and shorter than what came to market. There was a last minute dynamite and rebuild on the program to stretch the vehicle for the 3rd row option, styling was dumbed down,...

The program was a disaster during development. Cost over runs, delays etc.

The original volume projections for the vehicle was 50k-60k per year.

The SRX barely touches half that volume.

For Cadillac and GM, the vehicle has been a sales disaster. Particulary when compared to the competition and size of the market.

BTW - Do not expect much with the 07 MCE interior update.

Edited May 13, 2006 by evok

[4gm]

With news of Caddy getting a theta and slow sales of the SRX, it looks like GM should have stuck to the original plan for the SRX. How much was the styling dumbed down? The SRX seems like pure A&S to me. It was just very badly executed, just like the XLR.

I'm somewhat concerned about Caddy's future. I think Lutz will push for more of the conservative Sixteen style for future Caddy's instead of the A&S style that has been the basis for Cadillac's resurgence. Conservative is for Buick, not Cadillac. The new Escalade looks good but the next generation absolutely has to be a stunner to hold onto sales. Same with the STS.

Edited May 13, 2006 by 4gm

[KillFort]

Evok, you have stated that you aren't especially worried about the NG CTS but more so about the NG STS and SRX. How far off is the NG STS and SRX and do you expect it will be a repeat of what we saw with the current models?--meaning, a far more boldly styled CTS followed by far weaker versions of the other models.

I'm worried about the differences we will see between the CBS 60 Minutes CTS and the actual production version by next year.

[ellives]

Luckily, Cadillac isn't focusing on people like you for their market share. Who makes a decision about which vehicle to buy based on whether it has "express-up windows?" It's a laughable comment.

10k units a year? Another laughable comment. They already sold over 12K year-to-date.

Building automobiles is always about compromise. If they didn't have the class-leading engines, they'd get chastised about that. They absolutely have places to improve. The trick is to improve faster than your competition because they're improving too.

Go GM!

>>"The SRX and STS show all that was and may still be wrong with GM.  GM lost sight of their vision for Cadillac and hedged there bets on Art and Science.  It shows in the sales and lack of consistency with the rest of the line up from the aesthetics point of view."<<

Gotta agree- an awful, terrible, wretched POSs. Never got any critical acclaim, either. Junk- would've been better off building nothing in these classes.

The writer also has a GREAT point about all the missing convenience features in the new Escalade....I didn't realize it was lacking all those things....

Right on- no way is all that class-leading HP & TRQ going to make up for no express up windows! I mean; c'mon! This is 2006 not 1906! I'd rather drive a rotted-out nissan with express-ups than a beautiful brand new Escalade! Cadillac will be lucky to move 10K units annually, mark my words.

[evok]

Evok, you have stated that you aren't especially worried about the NG CTS but more so about the NG STS and SRX.  How far off is the NG STS and SRX and do you expect it will be a repeat of what we saw with the current models?--meaning, a far more boldly styled CTS followed by far weaker versions of the other models.

I'm worried about the differences we will see between the CBS 60 Minutes CTS and the actual production version by next year.

NG STS and SRX are not due until late in the decade.

Let us see if GM can be consistent and take the 08 CTS design philosophy (inside and out) and evolve them forward with the NG STS and SRX. As opposed to watering down the theme or going with a completely different them.

i.e Does the current STS interior have anything in common "stylistically" with the other vehicles in the brand's portfolio? The XLR was a great attempt at building upon the CTS theme. The DTS well that is another story.

[Imaj]

DTS.....I don't even want to go there. IMHO that car is SO far out of touch with where Cadillac should be setting their sights, it pisses me off to think they even brought it out. It may be their "volume" product....but that's only because of the large number of units put into fleet. DTS does nothing but consumer-perception-damage to all the good things Cadillac HAS accomplished.

They should keep the DTS for as long as they could. Cadillac shouldn't abandon its original customers, while improving the car to appeal to more audiance. 6-Speed, a NG DTS on Chi, maybe even a Hybrid powertrain. Not everyone wants a hard, harsh, european-ride. I could be the only 20 yrs old aspiring for a DTS, just because it offers a comfy, floaty ride.

[ZL-1]

They should keep the DTS for as long as they could. Cadillac shouldn't abandon its original customers, while improving the car to appeal to more audiance. 6-Speed, a NG DTS on Chi, maybe even a Hybrid powertrain. Not everyone wants a hard, harsh, european-ride. I could be the only 20 yrs old aspiring for a DTS, just because it offers a comfy, floaty ride.

I think those buyers should go be catered by Buick, as Cadillac has shifted to (or is trying to shift to) a more aggressive posture.

Edited May 13, 2006 by ZL-1

[Robert Hall]

I think those buyers should go be catered by Buick, as Cadillac has shifted to (or is trying to shift to) a more aggressive posture.

Well, one argument I can see for keeping the DTS is that Lexus still has the ES.. there still seems to be a market for floaty FWD luxury sedans..

[Drew Dowdell]

Well, one argument I can see for keeping the DTS is that Lexus still has the ES..  there  still seems to be a market for floaty FWD luxury sedans..

Buick

[regfootball]

The SRX's failure is a styling failure. Its a station wagon look, plain and simple. It doesn't have an SUV or crossover look. there IS a difference. The other reason the SRX fails is it looks too narrow and the cargo area looks worthless in size. The cheap looking 'sports sedan' interior doesn't help either. It should have a unique interior.

The original GMX-265 (SRX) was smaller and shorter than what came to market.  There was a last minute dynamite and rebuild on the program to stretch the vehicle for the 3rd row option, styling was dumbed down,...

The program was a disaster during development.  Cost over runs, delays etc.

The original volume projections for the vehicle was 50k-60k per year.

The SRX barely touches half that volume.

For Cadillac and GM, the vehicle has been a sales disaster.  Particulary when compared to the competition and size of the market.

BTW - Do not expect much with the 07 MCE interior update.

Edited May 14, 2006 by regfootball

[ellives]

Therein lies the problem. Even the GM enthusiastics can't even agree on the market each division is chasing and we know the product lines. How is the average Joe customer going to figure it out? GM needs to get this issue fixed.

Buick

[hyperv6]

What of the mentioned V12 Sixteen like car mentioned in this weeks Autoweek story?? Is it truly on again? Also how well will a NG CTS coupe will play?

I know GM has other areas that need addressed first. Can they do these properly while dealing with the other problems?

[The O.C.]

Luckily, Cadillac isn't focusing on people like you for their market share. Who makes a decision about which vehicle to buy based on whether it has "express-up windows?" It's a laughable comment.

10k units a year? Another laughable comment. They already sold over 12K year-to-date.

Building automobiles is always about compromise. If they didn't have the class-leading engines, they'd get chastised about that. They absolutely have places to improve. The trick is to improve faster than your competition because they're improving too.

Go GM!

Well, for one, I'm incredibly annoyed that my C6 doesn't have auto up and down on both windows. I got used to it in the other non-GM vehicles I've owned before and it's one of those things, in a whole line of features, that most other manufacturers are offering and GM is increasingly slow on the uptake.

Even my Liberty company car has at least auto down on both front windows....

The point is....GM needs to provide the features in their vehicles that the competition is offering and that consumers appreciate. It's a similar story with the Lucerne (no xenons, no telescope, no power tilt, no articulating headrests, no naviagation yet, etc, etc.)

No one on here said a decision would be made based simply on "express window" operation......but it's the whole packaged deal that people consider......

[The O.C.]

They should keep the DTS for as long as they could. Cadillac shouldn't abandon its original customers, while improving the car to appeal to more audiance. 6-Speed, a NG DTS on Chi, maybe even a Hybrid powertrain. Not everyone wants a hard, harsh, european-ride. I could be the only 20 yrs old aspiring for a DTS, just because it offers a comfy, floaty ride.

GM publicly stated LONG AGO that Cadillac was to move upscale to compete with Mercedes-Benz, Audi, and BMW and that Buick would move up to fill the "traditional" Cadillac role.

Well, DTS isn't the sort of product that I think of when I think of a division competing against Mercedes-Benz, Audi, or BMW. Buick already builds a "better" DTS...and that's called the Lucerne (at least stylistically in my eyes...)

'Nuff said.....

[The O.C.]

The SRX's failure is a styling failure.  Its a station wagon look, plain and simple.  It doesn't have an SUV or crossover look.  there IS a difference.  The other reason the SRX fails is it looks too narrow and the cargo area looks worthless in size.  The cheap looking 'sports sedan' interior doesn't help either.  It should have a unique interior.

I just got my real estate agent/friend a deal on a new X3....and believe it or not, she LOVES it.

I tried to get her to look at SRX and she said...."it looks too much like a station wagon."

End result? She wanted the "look" (whatever that is) of an SUV....and she wanted an "upscale" badge. She narrowed it down to Infiniti FX35 or the X3. The X3 had the maintenance package, and the styling was less "out there." She could care less that the X3 has less horsepower, etc.

The "station wagon" comment she made about the SRX says something....

[ellives]

Well, for one, I'm incredibly annoyed that my C6 doesn't have auto up and down on both windows.  I got used to it in the other non-GM vehicles I've owned before and it's one of those things, in a whole line of features, that most other manufacturers are offering and GM is increasingly slow on the uptake.

Even my Liberty company car has at least auto down on both front windows....

The point is....GM needs to provide the features in their vehicles that the competition is offering and that consumers appreciate.  It's a similar story with the Lucerne (no xenons, no telescope, no power tilt, no articulating headrests, no naviagation yet, etc, etc.)

No one on here said a decision would be made based simply on "express window" operation......but it's the whole packaged deal that people consider......

We're agreed on the missing features however the original poster I responded to DID state they'd make a decision based on the window-up feature: " I'd rather drive a rotted-out nissan with express-ups than a beautiful brand new Escalade! "

[Mr.Krinkle]

We're agreed on the missing features however the original poster I responded to DID state they'd make a decision based on the window-up feature: " I'd rather drive a rotted-out nissan with express-ups than a beautiful brand new Escalade! "

im gonna go out on a limb and say that was sarcasm, but my 92 bonneville has the express windows so its not like they dont know about them. there must be some other reasons in play.

also, the same car has the feature where the battery stays on for half a min or until you open the door. is that commonplace now?

The "station wagon" comment she made about the SRX says something....

it sure does...but we'll call it an avant and it will be ok then.

[balthazar]

We're agreed on the missing features however the original poster I responded to DID state they'd make a decision based on the window-up feature: " I'd rather drive a rotted-out nissan with express-ups than a beautiful brand new Escalade! "

Yeah...um, OK; that was indeed sarcasm. I really didn't think a smilie was necc on that one, but apparently so.

In all seriousness, if the vehicle's power, drivability, comfort, room, styling and reliability are in order, no half-handful of 'missing' features are going to ever turn me away from it.

What- my wittle finger might get tired pulling up for 4 seconds on the non-power express-up button? I think I can handle it.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Well, one argument I can see for keeping the DTS is that Lexus still has the ES..  there  still seems to be a market for floaty FWD luxury sedans..

True, but a few things: ES350 is still a mid-size car, very nice one at that-DTS is large. Buick is not yet at that big-ticket luxury field yet. They need to be able to match Mercury Milan and the 2007Chrysler Sebring before going for Acura TL and Lexus ES350. However, Milan and Sebring are slightly smaller cars than the LaCrosse (by about 7" overall, but trunk space is similar, with the current Sebring winning at 16 vs. 15.8 or so for Milan/LaCrosse). LaCrosse really isn;t that luxurious, even in top form, and its top engine only has 240hp. ES350 has 272; 270 I think out of TL. As seen in Enclave and almost in Outlook, GM can make 270hp out of that same 3.6-liter DOHC High Feature V-6 (but make a 250hp standard-or at least optional on Malibu/G6 models, like Aura). I wouldn't mind seeing a revived SLS on Epsilon II 112.5, but only as long as it didn't intrude with CTS-it can be styled like it (in fact that's the only way I'd go! Ditto other Caddies), but of course FWD, edgier, and essentially a smaller, more modern DTS. But I would prefer to see LaCrosse spread its wings, and not only be that near-luxury 5-6-passenger mid-size sedan, but also to spread into ES350/TL territory.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Also, the 2001 Vizon concept looked spectacular in pictures-it should've come to production as-is. Actually, I'd still support it! Just edge up and shorten SRX's rear end, jack up the power, send it soon! That rolling piece of artwork-or, I mean-Infiniti FX-needs a rival!

[The O.C.]

also, the same car has the feature where the battery stays on for half a min or until you open the door.  is that commonplace now?

More commonplace than not.......so yes.....