What does Cadillac mean to you?

[balthazar]

How is dealer inventory / days on the lot ANY sort of meaningful metric, other than from the factory shift scheduler's POV??

 

Luxury sedan sales are DOWN across the board, some HUGE "slides' at the German brands. Audi is down too, but audi has problems selling cars that primarily use volkswagon power trains- thusly they duke it out with lowly Cadillac for sales numbers.
Apologists only say 'look how great audi is doing!' :/ 

 

Cars in general are on the downside of their Bell Curve… at least for now. They've collectively gotten so cramped that people have been turning to trucks, and now SUVs / CUVs for decades. Cars need to grow larger, larger than they are now if OEMs want to turn this around. Everyone says simplistically 'build more CUVs!!' but no one advocates fixing the issues with the cars : space.

Edited May 3, 2016 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

^^^ What you say is so true, why do I drive all full size SUV's? Because no cars are comfy for tall big guys like me and the include Cadillac CTS. Problem with CTS is that once I  get it so I can drive the car comfy on a road trip or around town, no one can sit behind me. No room. So escalade wins out. Build true full size sedans and you can see the cars start selling but also fix the biggest problem with all size cars, interior back room especially when you have us 6'6" tall 280lb guys up front.

 

I also believe all sales are down as Tesla 3 and BOLT are making people rethink the type of auto they have for driving and what they want for the future. Plus sales were so strong last year and no sustainable, so sales have to drop. This will affect especially MB and BMW where build everything at every level in every little nich is also not sustainable. 

 

Soon Cadillac will be better than MB or BMW when sales continue to drop off and they have to look at what models to kill off to stop the bleeding.

[ccap41]

^^^ What you say is so true, why do I drive all full size SUV's? Because no cars are comfy for tall big guys like me and the include Cadillac CTS. Problem with CTS is that once I  get it so I can drive the car comfy on a road trip or around town, no one can sit behind me. No room. So escalade wins out. Build true full size sedans and you can see the cars start selling but also fix the biggest problem with all size cars, interior back room especially when you have us 6'6" tall 280lb guys up front.

 

I also believe all sales are down as Tesla 3 and BOLT are making people rethink the type of auto they have for driving and what they want for the future. Plus sales were so strong last year and no sustainable, so sales have to drop. This will affect especially MB and BMW where build everything at every level in every little nich is also not sustainable. 

 

Soon Cadillac will be better than MB or BMW when sales continue to drop off and they have to look at what models to kill off to stop the bleeding.

 

See this is a good point in favor of the FWD luxury cars. Yes, yes, yes, wrong wheel drive and not sporty or near as athletic of a drive.. but FWD platforms offer more interior room. I honestly think the FWD platform luxury cars in the smaller/mid-size will compete very well on the interior space front. 

 

I brought up tat point a few months ago.. I should have started a thread about it but it was just a "random thought". Eventually the economy and car sales will level off and there won't be enough sales to convince people to buy all of these stupid, hideous variants( I'm talking about the X4s/GLE Coupes of the world). I'm legitimately worried they are going to bankrupt themselves by getting in so deep and then eventually there will be a form of halt in sales(economy slows to backs up at some point). I know I'm no economist but it honestly kind of scares me how MB and BMW are trying to put a vehicle in every little nook and cranny. Yeah, I have nothing invested with either company but they still employ thousands(?) of dealerships and employees within each dealer plus the plants that are here as well. So if they go under or have severe financial issues we're in  deep $h! even though they're a foreign company. 

 

This is one reason I think what GM and Ford are doing is great. GM is platform sharing all over the place where if they had to cut a vehicle out because of an economic downturn it isn't a complete loss on the platform and obviously Ford is doing the same..even though Lincoln isn't..well..Cadillac. It's to a lesser extent but still a financial security blanket if $h! hits the fan again they can easily stop producing either Ford or Lincoln and still utilize the platform in the other brand. 

 

Audi and VW seem to have a similar(probably better) setup with their convertible platforms.

 

Just my thoughts on that...

Edited May 3, 2016 by ccap41

[ccap41]

How ironic that on the day I return to posting.. after being in mourning since last Thursday.. I get this in the mail and endeavor into this page of the thread. Benz is trying to get me to get rid of my CTS for an Eclass.. using the New CTS 2.0L @$45K as a reason I should buy.. LOL.. a Certified E-Class for $1000 less. They are putting out the VALUE proposition thinking that I would.. if I had a 2.0L.. get rid of it for a f@#kin E-Class 

 

 

LOL Are you kidding me? They literally went after you for your Cadillac saying you should buy a Benz. That's almost offensive how they would target you like that. I do think it's funny that they know you have a CTS but no clue you buoght the biggest and baddest CTS and they're trying to put you in a 300hp E Class.. That isn't 650hp of badass. No thanks. 

[balthazar]

 

Build true full size sedans and you can see the cars start selling but also fix the biggest problem with all size cars, interior back room...

 

See this is a good point in favor of the FWD luxury cars. Yes, yes, yes, wrong wheel drive and not sporty or near as athletic of a drive.. but FWD platforms offer more interior room. I honestly think the FWD platform luxury cars in the smaller/mid-size will compete very well on the interior space front. 

FWD only addresses space in the floor area, IE; the 'trans tunnel'. In some instances, where beam 'axles' are used out back, it makes for a smidge more rear seat room. It doesn't make more 'people' room in general. IE; it's incremental, not transformational.

 

Cars should get WIDER, without question. I'm NOT a big person (5'8") but I still feel like a 'peanut in a shell' in most modern 'family sedans'.

Envy this : my '59 Buick front seat hip room : 66". 2016 Escalade : 61"… a number that TOTALLY IGNORES the 16" center console. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

How ironic that on the day I return to posting.. after being in mourning since last Thursday.. I get this in the mail and endeavor into this page of the thread. Benz is trying to get me to get rid of my CTS for an Eclass.. using the New CTS 2.0L @$45K as a reason I should buy.. LOL.. a Certified E-Class for $1000 less. They are putting out the VALUE proposition thinking that I would.. if I had a 2.0L.. get rid of it for a f@#kin E-Class 

 

 

LOL Are you kidding me? They literally went after you for your Cadillac saying you should buy a Benz. That's almost offensive how they would target you like that. I do think it's funny that they know you have a CTS but no clue you buoght the biggest and baddest CTS and they're trying to put you in a 300hp E Class.. That isn't 650hp of badass. No thanks. 

 

 

 

 

as U can see.. my first impulse was to rip that $h! up and toss it in the trash.. then I decided to scan it and let U guys see the tactics they use. 

[surreal1272]

How ironic that on the day I return to posting.. after being in mourning since last Thursday.. I get this in the mail and endeavor into this page of the thread. Benz is trying to get me to get rid of my CTS for an Eclass.. using the New CTS 2.0L @$45K as a reason I should buy.. LOL.. a Certified E-Class for $1000 less. They are putting out the VALUE proposition thinking that I would.. if I had a 2.0L.. get rid of it for a f@#kin E-Class

LOL Are you kidding me? They literally went after you for your Cadillac saying you should buy a Benz. That's almost offensive how they would target you like that. I do think it's funny that they know you have a CTS but no clue you buoght the biggest and baddest CTS and they're trying to put you in a 300hp E Class.. That isn't 650hp of badass. No thanks.

as U can see.. my first impulse was to rip that $h! up and toss it in the trash.. then I decided to scan it and let U guys see the tactics they use.

That is sad and hilarious at the same time.

Edited May 3, 2016 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

^ I like how they never fail to mention the low!low! lease rates.

 

And BTW- offering a used car for the price of a new one? Ya- that's some selling tactic.

[smk4565]

Well a used E350 is a better buy than a new CTS, and the E-class will last longer.  They probably send the same think to Audi A6 and Lexus GS350 buyers.  There are probably a fair number of luxury car buyers that think a Mercedes is too expensive, or the maintenance too high, that they can afford a Lexus or Cadillac but can't afford a Mercedes.  So 2 years pre-paid maintenance, extended warranty and $45k price tag is to conquer that type of buyer.  

 

A CTS-V buyer is obviously not that type of buyer.  I get mailers to trade in my car with a CLA lease deal, which also makes no sense, but they are just trying to draw people into the dealerships.  Really they should do a better job on the mailing lists to better target people, a CTS-V owner should get an AMG flyer, not one for an E350.

[balthazar]

Right; who's going to trade a CTS for a Ford cargo va—— oh, you meant the mercedes sedan. My bad.

 

Yeah- the E350 is not a better buy, and yes; the maintenance & repair costs are much higher. It's why the majority of mercedes' are leased- to avoid the reliability gremlins, post-warranty. The extended warranty is an attempt to address this problem.

Edited May 3, 2016 by balthazar

[smk4565]

The "Mercedes have horrible reliability"  is a total myth and something those that don't like foreign cars use.  Foreign cars cost more to maintain is an old wives tale.  There are plenty of high mileage Mercedes out there, million mile Mercedes, etc.  But if Mercedes is bad, what are the 37 companies below them?

 

They did slide in 2015, but still 8th overall, and the E-class was ranked #1 among mid-size premium sedans.

 

[smk4565]

5th place in 2013, pretty consistently near the top.  They aren't Lexus, but they are definitely better than most.

 

[ccap41]

It is absolutely NOT an old wives tale.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Well a used E350 is a better buy than a new CTS, and the E-class will last longer.  They probably send the same think to Audi A6 and Lexus GS350 buyers.  There are probably a fair number of luxury car buyers that think a Mercedes is too expensive, or the maintenance too high, that they can afford a Lexus or Cadillac but can't afford a Mercedes.  So 2 years pre-paid maintenance, extended warranty and $45k price tag is to conquer that type of buyer.  

 

A CTS-V buyer is obviously not that type of buyer.  I get mailers to trade in my car with a CLA lease deal, which also makes no sense, but they are just trying to draw people into the dealerships.  Really they should do a better job on the mailing lists to better target people, a CTS-V owner should get an AMG flyer, not one for an E350.

 

 

To the bolded.. Who is able to spend $46K on a CTS and not spend a measly $7K on a new E350? Who are those people? U??? Are U one of those people who have a hard time figuring out if $7K is gonna fit in your budget? LOL... f@#k outta here. Its so comical its downright stupid that U try those underhanded put downs.

[Cmicasa the Great]

As to the dependability.. and cost should go hand in hand... My uncle had an '07 S550. He traded it in on a '14 Platinum XTS VSport. Even I asked him what made him trade essentially down from the Benz Flagship to the XTS VSport and his response, to my amazement considering how he talked the Sclass up when he first bought it was:

 

"After 7 years with the top dog Benz I now kno what Bruce Lee was talking about when he said:"

 

Mistakes are always forgivable, if one has the courage to admit them 

 

"That car cost me way more than the $93,000 I talked the salesman down to. I know I spent minimum $105K once that warranty was gone." 

 

In defense of the numbers. He did have to have a big job done to it concerning the time chain.

[smk4565]

 

Well a used E350 is a better buy than a new CTS, and the E-class will last longer.  They probably send the same think to Audi A6 and Lexus GS350 buyers.  There are probably a fair number of luxury car buyers that think a Mercedes is too expensive, or the maintenance too high, that they can afford a Lexus or Cadillac but can't afford a Mercedes.  So 2 years pre-paid maintenance, extended warranty and $45k price tag is to conquer that type of buyer.  

 

A CTS-V buyer is obviously not that type of buyer.  I get mailers to trade in my car with a CLA lease deal, which also makes no sense, but they are just trying to draw people into the dealerships.  Really they should do a better job on the mailing lists to better target people, a CTS-V owner should get an AMG flyer, not one for an E350.

 

 

To the bolded.. Who is able to spend $46K on a CTS and not spend a measly $7K on a new E350? Who are those people? U??? Are U one of those people who have a hard time figuring out if $7K is gonna fit in your budget? LOL... f@#k outta here. Its so comical its downright stupid that U try those underhanded put downs.

 

For some people a Mercedes is too much car, or they worry what if it is expensive to maintain.  When the past 3 years Mercedes has been 5th, 2nd and 8th in reliability.  My mom had a client of hers looking for an SUV, she could have afforded a GLK, I suggested a certified used diesel GLK at the time since they put over 20,000 miles a year on it, and with the 4-cylinder diesel it got like 33 mpg.  They bought a Nissan Rogue new instead, because they were worried a Mercedes was too nice or would have higher maintenance costs than a Nissan or Subaru.  There are people who want average, and do not want the Best.

 

I bet a lot of Lexus GS350 buyers buy the car because of Lexus's reliability, fit into the crowd styling and low ownership cost.   They aren't buying it because it is better than a Mercedes, they are buying it because they never owned a German car, heard some old wives tale, and the GS350  has the same V6 their Camry had 10 years ago and it seems safe to them.

[smk4565]

 

As to the dependability.. and cost should go hand in hand... My uncle had an '07 S550. He traded it in on a '14 Platinum XTS VSport. Even I asked him what made him trade essentially down from the Benz Flagship to the XTS VSport and his response, to my amazement considering how he talked the Sclass up when he first bought it was:

 

"After 7 years with the top dog Benz I now kno what Bruce Lee was talking about when he said:"

 

Mistakes are always forgivable, if one has the courage to admit them 

 

"That car cost me way more than the $93,000 I talked the salesman down to. I know I spent minimum $105K once that warranty was gone." 

 

In defense of the numbers. He did have to have a big job done to it concerning the time chain.

 

I have owned two GM cars, I had the air conditioner condenser go out on both of them around 100k mile, I had 3 different power windows break on my Aurora, I had to replace 3 engine mounts on the Aurora, and the GM dealer admitted they break all the time, because the mounts GM used were not strong enough for the torque the V8 made when the engine would lift.  Under-engineered, designed with save a buck parts.  If GM cars were so bullet proof in reliability they wouldn't have lost all their market share, when people left for Toyota and Honda for better reliability.  Lexus went from not existing to outselling Cadillac and Lincoln in about 10 years time, that is a pretty big accomplishment, and they did it because of reliability.

 

My car has the same engine, transmission and air suspension of the 07 S550, and between the previous owner (via the carafe report) and me, the engine powertrain repairs have been a small oil leak that was about $200 to fix and a cam shaft sensor went bad, that was about $200 as well.  That is it in 90,000 miles on the engine.  That engine has incredible reliability.

 

The negative to Mercedes is it costs $425 to change the transmission fluid.  To change the spark plugs and wires is about $400 for a V8.  Some routine maintenance is expensive.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

As to the dependability.. and cost should go hand in hand... My uncle had an '07 S550. He traded it in on a '14 Platinum XTS VSport. Even I asked him what made him trade essentially down from the Benz Flagship to the XTS VSport and his response, to my amazement considering how he talked the Sclass up when he first bought it was:

 

"After 7 years with the top dog Benz I now kno what Bruce Lee was talking about when he said:"

 

Mistakes are always forgivable, if one has the courage to admit them 

 

"That car cost me way more than the $93,000 I talked the salesman down to. I know I spent minimum $105K once that warranty was gone." 

 

In defense of the numbers. He did have to have a big job done to it concerning the time chain.

 

I have owned two GM cars, I had the air conditioner condenser go out on both of them around 100k mile, I had 3 different power windows break on my Aurora, I had to replace 3 engine mounts on the Aurora, and the GM dealer admitted they break all the time, because the mounts GM used were not strong enough for the torque the V8 made when the engine would lift.  Under-engineered, designed with save a buck parts.  If GM cars were so bullet proof in reliability they wouldn't have lost all their market share, when people left for Toyota and Honda for better reliability.  Lexus went from not existing to outselling Cadillac and Lincoln in about 10 years time, that is a pretty big accomplishment, and they did it because of reliability.

 

My car has the same engine, transmission and air suspension of the 07 S550, and between the previous owner (via the carafe report) and me, the engine powertrain repairs have been a small oil leak that was about $200 to fix and a cam shaft sensor went bad, that was about $200 as well.  That is it in 90,000 miles on the engine.  That engine has incredible reliability.

 

The negative to Mercedes is it costs $425 to change the transmission fluid.  To change the spark plugs and wires is about $400 for a V8.  Some routine maintenance is expensive.

 

 

 

Are U comparing a $700 Air Condenser issue with a $3000 cost of changing of the Timing Chain in the FLAGSHIP Benz? I'll add that his Benz didn't even remotely have 60K on the odo.. even worse is that when he went to trade that German PIECE OF $h! in it was worth $26K. Let me say that again.. $26K on a car that cost him almost $95K seven years prior.

 

To your POS Benz.. my previous GM vehicles have all been 60K+ with the SUVs (previous 00 Yukon, '07 Tahoe) having upwards of 120-150K.. never an issue that cost more than $50 outside of tires. 

[balthazar]

I told this story before but : a good friend of mine (now) had a MB S430. Something broke related to the sunroof- it took MB 8 months to get the part to the dealer.

After the front suspension collapsed and had the car sitting on the ground in the front, he sold it and bought 2 successive loaded Tahoes, which he much preferred. The poor service and the quality issues on his MB mentioned above have made him say since 'Not worth it and never again'.

[surreal1272]

Well a used E350 is a better buy than a new CTS, and the E-class will last longer.  They probably send the same think to Audi A6 and Lexus GS350 buyers.  There are probably a fair number of luxury car buyers that think a Mercedes is too expensive, or the maintenance too high, that they can afford a Lexus or Cadillac but can't afford a Mercedes.  So 2 years pre-paid maintenance, extended warranty and $45k price tag is to conquer that type of buyer.  

 

A CTS-V buyer is obviously not that type of buyer.  I get mailers to trade in my car with a CLA lease deal, which also makes no sense, but they are just trying to draw people into the dealerships.  Really they should do a better job on the mailing lists to better target people, a CTS-V owner should get an AMG flyer, not one for an E350.

 

 

To the bolded.. Who is able to spend $46K on a CTS and not spend a measly $7K on a new E350? Who are those people? U??? Are U one of those people who have a hard time figuring out if $7K is gonna fit in your budget? LOL... f@#k outta here. Its so comical its downright stupid that U try those underhanded put downs.

For some people a Mercedes is too much car, or they worry what if it is expensive to maintain.  When the past 3 years Mercedes has been 5th, 2nd and 8th in reliability.  My mom had a client of hers looking for an SUV, she could have afforded a GLK, I suggested a certified used diesel GLK at the time since they put over 20,000 miles a year on it, and with the 4-cylinder diesel it got like 33 mpg.  They bought a Nissan Rogue new instead, because they were worried a Mercedes was too nice or would have higher maintenance costs than a Nissan or Subaru.  There are people who want average, and do not want the Best.

 

I bet a lot of Lexus GS350 buyers buy the car because of Lexus's reliability, fit into the crowd styling and low ownership cost.   They aren't buying it because it is better than a Mercedes, they are buying it because they never owned a German car, heard some old wives tale, and the GS350  has the same V6 their Camry had 10 years ago and it seems safe to them.

Sorry but that first sentence is a load of apologetic elitist bull$h!.

Btw, it's not an "old wives tale" when it's the truth. Ask any mechanic who is not paid by Daimler. I sure towed enough German cars, back in the day, to open up my own overpriced unreliable car lot.

[surreal1272]

As to the dependability.. and cost should go hand in hand... My uncle had an '07 S550. He traded it in on a '14 Platinum XTS VSport. Even I asked him what made him trade essentially down from the Benz Flagship to the XTS VSport and his response, to my amazement considering how he talked the Sclass up when he first bought it was:

 

"After 7 years with the top dog Benz I now kno what Bruce Lee was talking about when he said:"

 

Mistakes are always forgivable, if one has the courage to admit them 

 

"That car cost me way more than the $93,000 I talked the salesman down to. I know I spent minimum $105K once that warranty was gone." 

 

In defense of the numbers. He did have to have a big job done to it concerning the time chain.

I have owned two GM cars, I had the air conditioner condenser go out on both of them around 100k mile, I had 3 different power windows break on my Aurora, I had to replace 3 engine mounts on the Aurora, and the GM dealer admitted they break all the time, because the mounts GM used were not strong enough for the torque the V8 made when the engine would lift.  Under-engineered, designed with save a buck parts.  If GM cars were so bullet proof in reliability they wouldn't have lost all their market share, when people left for Toyota and Honda for better reliability.  Lexus went from not existing to outselling Cadillac and Lincoln in about 10 years time, that is a pretty big accomplishment, and they did it because of reliability.

 

My car has the same engine, transmission and air suspension of the 07 S550, and between the previous owner (via the carafe report) and me, the engine powertrain repairs have been a small oil leak that was about $200 to fix and a cam shaft sensor went bad, that was about $200 as well.  That is it in 90,000 miles on the engine.  That engine has incredible reliability.

 

The negative to Mercedes is it costs $425 to change the transmission fluid.  To change the spark plugs and wires is about $400 for a V8.  Some routine maintenance is expensive.

 

 

Are U comparing a $700 Air Condenser issue with a $3000 cost of changing of the Timing Chain in the FLAGSHIP Benz? I'll add that his Benz didn't even remotely have 60K on the odo.. even worse is that when he went to trade that German PIECE OF $h! in it was worth $26K. Let me say that again.. $26K on a car that cost him almost $95K seven years prior.

 

To your POS Benz.. my previous GM vehicles have all been 60K+ with the SUVs (previous 00 Yukon, '07 Tahoe) having upwards of 120-150K.. never an issue that cost more than $50 outside of tires.

The funniest part of his post is claiming that, after a "small" oil leak and a cam shaft sensor replacement at only 90k miles on a $90K flagship Benz, he still hs the balls to call it "reliable". Sorry but my lowly 3.5L in my Magnum never needed any of that and I rolled up 127K miles on it before I had to sell it.

Your excuses are becoming just outright pathetic SMK. Anything else you want to get busted on today?

[smk4565]

Every car is going to be different.  Two people can buy the same car (doesn't matter which brand) and have different experiences with it.  I am sure there are people that bought a Ford Fusion and put 200,000 miles on it trouble free, others that had problem after problem.  It is luck of the draw to some extent.

 

Mercedes has the best owner loyalty of any luxury brand.  If they made such a terrible, unreliable car more people would leave.  Mercedes posted their best annual sales in 2015, they just had their best ever April in 2016.  Even if the cars are unreliable (which JD power says they are top 8 for 3 years in a row, #2 in 2014) the customers keep buying them.  Yes, Mercedes has high scheduled maintenance costs, yet customers keep buying them.

 

Cadillac was 14th, 3rd and 4th in reliability the past 3 years.  One not so good year, followed up by 2 very good ones.  But they aren't stealing any sales off the Germans, and Audi is a house of horrors when it comes to reliability, BMW is average.  The same argument of "German cars are expensive to maintain" has been made since the 80s, but more and more people keep buying German cars.

 

Audi is on like 50 consecutive months of sales gains.  The CLA and 1-series were supposed to dilute the brand image, or repair costs would drive people away, but none of that happened.  Why isn't Cadillac doing better if the Germans are so flawed?   Why did Cadillac let Lexus go from zero to #1 selling luxury car in the USA in 10 years?   Think of that, Cadillac was #1 selling luxury car in the USA for 55 years in a row, Lexus knocked them out from scratch in just 10, and Cadillac never recovered.  

 

I used to be a big Cadillac fan, but it is just pathetic how they let the brand deteriorate, 55 years at #1 to now being a 5 or 6th place brand and shrinking, down 28% last month.

[surreal1272]

Every car is going to be different.  Two people can buy the same car (doesn't matter which brand) and have different experiences with it.  I am sure there are people that bought a Ford Fusion and put 200,000 miles on it trouble free, others that had problem after problem.  It is luck of the draw to some extent.

 

Mercedes has the best owner loyalty of any luxury brand.  If they made such a terrible, unreliable car more people would leave.  Mercedes posted their best annual sales in 2015, they just had their best ever April in 2016.  Even if the cars are unreliable (which JD power says they are top 8 for 3 years in a row, #2 in 2014) the customers keep buying them.  Yes, Mercedes has high scheduled maintenance costs, yet customers keep buying them.

 

Cadillac was 14th, 3rd and 4th in reliability the past 3 years.  One not so good year, followed up by 2 very good ones.  But they aren't stealing any sales off the Germans, and Audi is a house of horrors when it comes to reliability, BMW is average.  The same argument of "German cars are expensive to maintain" has been made since the 80s, but more and more people keep buying German cars.

 

Audi is on like 50 consecutive months of sales gains.  The CLA and 1-series were supposed to dilute the brand image, or repair costs would drive people away, but none of that happened.  Why isn't Cadillac doing better if the Germans are so flawed?   Why did Cadillac let Lexus go from zero to #1 selling luxury car in the USA in 10 years?   Think of that, Cadillac was #1 selling luxury car in the USA for 55 years in a row, Lexus knocked them out from scratch in just 10, and Cadillac never recovered.  

 

I used to be a big Cadillac fan, but it is just pathetic how they let the brand deteriorate, 55 years at #1 to now being a 5 or 6th place brand and shrinking, down 28% last month.

Maybe you missed the part where I said I used to tow German cars. I towed plenty of them owned by people who kept all their service up to date. Most them ended up on the lots as CPOs after their warranties were up. As long as MB offers a good warranty and maintenance program, yes people will buy them. What they do not DO, is buy a used one outside of said warranty. FACT. They are horribly unreliable for the price point and have way overpriced maintenance costs, both of which are not even debatable unless you want to continue to remain blind to it just because own a damn Benz.

 

Oh and your asinine sales argument holds, surprise surprise, no damn water. It has WELL DISCUSSED as to why their sales are soft. More CUVs just like Benz and BMW did. DUUUUH!

 

I wonder how effective their CPO program is (Benz)? Sending all those letters to Caddy owners has surely got to be working right? I mean it worked for Casa didn't it? 

Edited May 4, 2016 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

 

 

 

As to the dependability.. and cost should go hand in hand... My uncle had an '07 S550. He traded it in on a '14 Platinum XTS VSport. Even I asked him what made him trade essentially down from the Benz Flagship to the XTS VSport and his response, to my amazement considering how he talked the Sclass up when he first bought it was:

 

"After 7 years with the top dog Benz I now kno what Bruce Lee was talking about when he said:"

 

Mistakes are always forgivable, if one has the courage to admit them 

 

"That car cost me way more than the $93,000 I talked the salesman down to. I know I spent minimum $105K once that warranty was gone." 

 

In defense of the numbers. He did have to have a big job done to it concerning the time chain.

I have owned two GM cars, I had the air conditioner condenser go out on both of them around 100k mile, I had 3 different power windows break on my Aurora, I had to replace 3 engine mounts on the Aurora, and the GM dealer admitted they break all the time, because the mounts GM used were not strong enough for the torque the V8 made when the engine would lift.  Under-engineered, designed with save a buck parts.  If GM cars were so bullet proof in reliability they wouldn't have lost all their market share, when people left for Toyota and Honda for better reliability.  Lexus went from not existing to outselling Cadillac and Lincoln in about 10 years time, that is a pretty big accomplishment, and they did it because of reliability.

 

My car has the same engine, transmission and air suspension of the 07 S550, and between the previous owner (via the carafe report) and me, the engine powertrain repairs have been a small oil leak that was about $200 to fix and a cam shaft sensor went bad, that was about $200 as well.  That is it in 90,000 miles on the engine.  That engine has incredible reliability.

 

The negative to Mercedes is it costs $425 to change the transmission fluid.  To change the spark plugs and wires is about $400 for a V8.  Some routine maintenance is expensive.

 

 

Are U comparing a $700 Air Condenser issue with a $3000 cost of changing of the Timing Chain in the FLAGSHIP Benz? I'll add that his Benz didn't even remotely have 60K on the odo.. even worse is that when he went to trade that German PIECE OF $h! in it was worth $26K. Let me say that again.. $26K on a car that cost him almost $95K seven years prior.

 

To your POS Benz.. my previous GM vehicles have all been 60K+ with the SUVs (previous 00 Yukon, '07 Tahoe) having upwards of 120-150K.. never an issue that cost more than $50 outside of tires.

The funniest part of his post is claiming that, after a "small" oil leak and a cam shaft sensor replacement at only 90k miles on a $90K flagship Benz, he still hs the balls to call it "reliable". Sorry but my lowly 3.5L in my Magnum never needed any of that and I rolled up 127K miles on it before I had to sell it.

Your excuses are becoming just outright pathetic SMK. Anything else you want to get busted on today?

 

The oil never dripped to the ground on my car, the dealer found it inside the engine somewhere, and said it wasn't even necessary to fix, but I like everything working in proper order.  My Aurora easily drank an extra 1-2 quarts of oil between oil changes since it was burning so much once it crossed 100k miles.  I think that was standard operating procedure for the Northstar and Aurora 4.0 engines, I still loved both those engines, great sound and smooth, but they did burn oil, and the Aurora leaked a little bit I am sure as it got older.

 

I really liked my Aurora, but reliability wasn't it's best strong suit, I had a lot of costly repairs, but I also had it from 26,000 miles to 151,000 miles and for 10 years.  And not that I want to spend money on repairs, but since I really liked that car, I always felt like it was worth it to keep the Aurora running as I did enjoy driving it.

[smk4565]

 

Every car is going to be different.  Two people can buy the same car (doesn't matter which brand) and have different experiences with it.  I am sure there are people that bought a Ford Fusion and put 200,000 miles on it trouble free, others that had problem after problem.  It is luck of the draw to some extent.

 

Mercedes has the best owner loyalty of any luxury brand.  If they made such a terrible, unreliable car more people would leave.  Mercedes posted their best annual sales in 2015, they just had their best ever April in 2016.  Even if the cars are unreliable (which JD power says they are top 8 for 3 years in a row, #2 in 2014) the customers keep buying them.  Yes, Mercedes has high scheduled maintenance costs, yet customers keep buying them.

 

Cadillac was 14th, 3rd and 4th in reliability the past 3 years.  One not so good year, followed up by 2 very good ones.  But they aren't stealing any sales off the Germans, and Audi is a house of horrors when it comes to reliability, BMW is average.  The same argument of "German cars are expensive to maintain" has been made since the 80s, but more and more people keep buying German cars.

 

Audi is on like 50 consecutive months of sales gains.  The CLA and 1-series were supposed to dilute the brand image, or repair costs would drive people away, but none of that happened.  Why isn't Cadillac doing better if the Germans are so flawed?   Why did Cadillac let Lexus go from zero to #1 selling luxury car in the USA in 10 years?   Think of that, Cadillac was #1 selling luxury car in the USA for 55 years in a row, Lexus knocked them out from scratch in just 10, and Cadillac never recovered.  

 

I used to be a big Cadillac fan, but it is just pathetic how they let the brand deteriorate, 55 years at #1 to now being a 5 or 6th place brand and shrinking, down 28% last month.

Maybe you missed the part where I said I used to tow German cars. I towed plenty of them owned by people who kept all their service up to date. Most them ended up on the lots as CPOs after their warranties were up. As long as MB offers a good warranty and maintenance program, yes people will buy them. What they do not DO, is buy a used one outside of said warranty. FACT. They are horribly unreliable for the price point and have way overpriced maintenance costs, both of which are not even debatable unless you want to continue to remain blind to it just because own a damn Benz.

 

Oh and your asinine sales argument holds, surprise surprise, no damn water. It has WELL DISCUSSED as to why their sales are soft. More CUVs just like Benz and BMW did. DUUUUH!

 

I wonder how effective their CPO program is (Benz)? Sending all those letters to Caddy owners has surely got to be working right? I mean it worked for Casa didn't it? 

 

I see a lot of older Mercedes on the road.  So either owners keep them or someone else is buying them, because I don't think once the warranty expires at 50k miles they go to a scrap yard to be recycled and turned into soda cans.  I bought one out of warranty, I love the car, it is rock solid.

 

Cadillac only introduced the Escalade because the Navigator was a smash hit in 1998.  So they took the Yukon Denali, changed the badge on the grille and called it Escalade in a 6 month rush to production.  Then they saw not only the Lexus RX sell well, but the ML320 and X5, so they came up with the CTS based SRX, about 5 years after the import SUVs.  At that point, after twice being late to the SUV/crossover party and having to react, you'd think they would have launched several crossovers to get ahead of the curve.  But nope, didn't do that either.  the SRX went on salon 2004, it is 2016 and they still have one crossover plus Escalade (which they did get right, especially by the 3rd gen).  12 years, no expansion in the fastest growing segment!

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

 

As to the dependability.. and cost should go hand in hand... My uncle had an '07 S550. He traded it in on a '14 Platinum XTS VSport. Even I asked him what made him trade essentially down from the Benz Flagship to the XTS VSport and his response, to my amazement considering how he talked the Sclass up when he first bought it was:

 

"After 7 years with the top dog Benz I now kno what Bruce Lee was talking about when he said:"

 

Mistakes are always forgivable, if one has the courage to admit them 

 

"That car cost me way more than the $93,000 I talked the salesman down to. I know I spent minimum $105K once that warranty was gone." 

 

In defense of the numbers. He did have to have a big job done to it concerning the time chain.

I have owned two GM cars, I had the air conditioner condenser go out on both of them around 100k mile, I had 3 different power windows break on my Aurora, I had to replace 3 engine mounts on the Aurora, and the GM dealer admitted they break all the time, because the mounts GM used were not strong enough for the torque the V8 made when the engine would lift.  Under-engineered, designed with save a buck parts.  If GM cars were so bullet proof in reliability they wouldn't have lost all their market share, when people left for Toyota and Honda for better reliability.  Lexus went from not existing to outselling Cadillac and Lincoln in about 10 years time, that is a pretty big accomplishment, and they did it because of reliability.

 

My car has the same engine, transmission and air suspension of the 07 S550, and between the previous owner (via the carafe report) and me, the engine powertrain repairs have been a small oil leak that was about $200 to fix and a cam shaft sensor went bad, that was about $200 as well.  That is it in 90,000 miles on the engine.  That engine has incredible reliability.

 

The negative to Mercedes is it costs $425 to change the transmission fluid.  To change the spark plugs and wires is about $400 for a V8.  Some routine maintenance is expensive.

 

 

Are U comparing a $700 Air Condenser issue with a $3000 cost of changing of the Timing Chain in the FLAGSHIP Benz? I'll add that his Benz didn't even remotely have 60K on the odo.. even worse is that when he went to trade that German PIECE OF $h! in it was worth $26K. Let me say that again.. $26K on a car that cost him almost $95K seven years prior.

 

To your POS Benz.. my previous GM vehicles have all been 60K+ with the SUVs (previous 00 Yukon, '07 Tahoe) having upwards of 120-150K.. never an issue that cost more than $50 outside of tires.

The funniest part of his post is claiming that, after a "small" oil leak and a cam shaft sensor replacement at only 90k miles on a $90K flagship Benz, he still hs the balls to call it "reliable". Sorry but my lowly 3.5L in my Magnum never needed any of that and I rolled up 127K miles on it before I had to sell it.

Your excuses are becoming just outright pathetic SMK. Anything else you want to get busted on today?

 

The oil never dripped to the ground on my car, the dealer found it inside the engine somewhere, and said it wasn't even necessary to fix, but I like everything working in proper order.  My Aurora easily drank an extra 1-2 quarts of oil between oil changes since it was burning so much once it crossed 100k miles.  I think that was standard operating procedure for the Northstar and Aurora 4.0 engines, I still loved both those engines, great sound and smooth, but they did burn oil, and the Aurora leaked a little bit I am sure as it got older.

 

I really liked my Aurora, but reliability wasn't it's best strong suit, I had a lot of costly repairs, but I also had it from 26,000 miles to 151,000 miles and for 10 years.  And not that I want to spend money on repairs, but since I really liked that car, I always felt like it was worth it to keep the Aurora running as I did enjoy driving it.

 

Was I talking about your car? No. Would you even admit to such problems if they did exist? Also no.

 

You also just basically admitted that it is okay if a Benz is not very reliable. Glad you finally came to your senses on at least that much.

 

Thanks for playing.

[surreal1272]

 

 

Every car is going to be different.  Two people can buy the same car (doesn't matter which brand) and have different experiences with it.  I am sure there are people that bought a Ford Fusion and put 200,000 miles on it trouble free, others that had problem after problem.  It is luck of the draw to some extent.

 

Mercedes has the best owner loyalty of any luxury brand.  If they made such a terrible, unreliable car more people would leave.  Mercedes posted their best annual sales in 2015, they just had their best ever April in 2016.  Even if the cars are unreliable (which JD power says they are top 8 for 3 years in a row, #2 in 2014) the customers keep buying them.  Yes, Mercedes has high scheduled maintenance costs, yet customers keep buying them.

 

Cadillac was 14th, 3rd and 4th in reliability the past 3 years.  One not so good year, followed up by 2 very good ones.  But they aren't stealing any sales off the Germans, and Audi is a house of horrors when it comes to reliability, BMW is average.  The same argument of "German cars are expensive to maintain" has been made since the 80s, but more and more people keep buying German cars.

 

Audi is on like 50 consecutive months of sales gains.  The CLA and 1-series were supposed to dilute the brand image, or repair costs would drive people away, but none of that happened.  Why isn't Cadillac doing better if the Germans are so flawed?   Why did Cadillac let Lexus go from zero to #1 selling luxury car in the USA in 10 years?   Think of that, Cadillac was #1 selling luxury car in the USA for 55 years in a row, Lexus knocked them out from scratch in just 10, and Cadillac never recovered.  

 

I used to be a big Cadillac fan, but it is just pathetic how they let the brand deteriorate, 55 years at #1 to now being a 5 or 6th place brand and shrinking, down 28% last month.

Maybe you missed the part where I said I used to tow German cars. I towed plenty of them owned by people who kept all their service up to date. Most them ended up on the lots as CPOs after their warranties were up. As long as MB offers a good warranty and maintenance program, yes people will buy them. What they do not DO, is buy a used one outside of said warranty. FACT. They are horribly unreliable for the price point and have way overpriced maintenance costs, both of which are not even debatable unless you want to continue to remain blind to it just because own a damn Benz.

 

Oh and your asinine sales argument holds, surprise surprise, no damn water. It has WELL DISCUSSED as to why their sales are soft. More CUVs just like Benz and BMW did. DUUUUH!

 

I wonder how effective their CPO program is (Benz)? Sending all those letters to Caddy owners has surely got to be working right? I mean it worked for Casa didn't it? 

 

I see a lot of older Mercedes on the road.  So either owners keep them or someone else is buying them, because I don't think once the warranty expires at 50k miles they go to a scrap yard to be recycled and turned into soda cans.  I bought one out of warranty, I love the car, it is rock solid.

 

Cadillac only introduced the Escalade because the Navigator was a smash hit in 1998.  So they took the Yukon Denali, changed the badge on the grille and called it Escalade in a 6 month rush to production.  Then they saw not only the Lexus RX sell well, but the ML320 and X5, so they came up with the CTS based SRX, about 5 years after the import SUVs.  At that point, after twice being late to the SUV/crossover party and having to react, you'd think they would have launched several crossovers to get ahead of the curve.  But nope, didn't do that either.  the SRX went on salon 2004, it is 2016 and they still have one crossover plus Escalade (which they did get right, especially by the 3rd gen).  12 years, no expansion in the fastest growing segment!

 

Blah blah blah, beaten horse, blah blah blah. Listen. If MB and BMW had failed to put out the half dozen CUVs they have out now, they would be on just as $h!ty a standing as Cadillac. Bank on it. This is proven by those sales you want to put so much stock in when you think it is convenient for you. CUVs up, sedans down. Remember that discussion yet? 

 

Seriously. Just stop.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Every car is going to be different.  Two people can buy the same car (doesn't matter which brand) and have different experiences with it.  I am sure there are people that bought a Ford Fusion and put 200,000 miles on it trouble free, others that had problem after problem.  It is luck of the draw to some extent.

 

Absolutely true.. but the vast majority of people I kno who have owned any of the European vehicle.. including Benz.. have had major issues.. some are even too embarrassed to admit those issues until the $h! hits the fan. They are embarrassed because they spent gobs of money on the car and got $h! on.

 

 

 

 

Mercedes has the best owner loyalty of any luxury brand.  If they made such a terrible, unreliable car more people would leave.  Mercedes posted their best annual sales in 2015, they just had their best ever April in 2016.  Even if the cars are unreliable (which JD power says they are top 8 for 3 years in a row, #2 in 2014) the customers keep buying them.  Yes, Mercedes has high scheduled maintenance costs, yet customers keep buying them.

 

Loyalty these days go hand in hand with lease deals and such.. admittedly.. Benz has been kicking out lease deals lately that wold make even me consider getting one of their cars... and I am a die hard domestic lover and think Cadillac is superior to Benz in  every category that they compete. By that statement I mean.. Benz is superior in the category of LARGE COUPES, because Cadillac doesn't offer a LARGE Coupe

 

 

 

Cadillac was 14th, 3rd and 4th in reliability the past 3 years.  One not so good year, followed up by 2 very good ones.  

 

Anyone else notice that those years correspond with the introduction and confusion brought on by CUE? Imagine that... Cadillac's biggest complaint logged in as a "Dependability Issue" was its CUE system not having buttons

 

 

Audi is on like 50 consecutive months of sales gains.  The CLA and 1-series were supposed to dilute the brand image, or repair costs would drive people away, but none of that happened.  Why isn't Cadillac doing better if the Germans are so flawed?   Why did Cadillac let Lexus go from zero to #1 selling luxury car in the USA in 10 years?   Think of that, Cadillac was #1 selling luxury car in the USA for 55 years in a row, Lexus knocked them out from scratch in just 10, and Cadillac never recovered.  

 

Coupla things with the reason why Cadillac, no Domestics in general fell in sales and it isn't just an issue in dependability. Some of it down right pertains to Americans having very little allegiance to their own workforce beginning in the go go 80s. To Audi's consecutive gains... They have the Q3, Q5, Q7, and a brand new A4, not to mention the lower cost A3. Balthazar is gonna hate me for saying it.. but it is the A3, not the CLA, that is the reason for my desire for Cadillac to offer a sub-ATS, still not less than $30K

 

 

 

[balthazar]

Cadillac has a car, right now, the exact size of the CLA, starting at $33K. It's called 'ATS'.

 

I am aware Cadillac is going to intro a model that splits the size difference between the ATS/CTS and morphs those 2 into a new line, but IMO that means the ATS is being effectively renamed/packaged, and NOT that there is going to be a "sub-ATS" car.   

[ccap41]

Every car is going to be different.  Two people can buy the same car (doesn't matter which brand) and have different experiences with it.  I am sure there are people that bought a Ford Fusion and put 200,000 miles on it trouble free, others that had problem after problem.  It is luck of the draw to some extent.

 

Mercedes has the best owner loyalty of any luxury brand.  If they made such a terrible, unreliable car more people would leave.  Mercedes posted their best annual sales in 2015, they just had their best ever April in 2016.  Even if the cars are unreliable (which JD power says they are top 8 for 3 years in a row, #2 in 2014) the customers keep buying them.  Yes, Mercedes has high scheduled maintenance costs, yet customers keep buying them.

 

Cadillac was 14th, 3rd and 4th in reliability the past 3 years.  One not so good year, followed up by 2 very good ones.  But they aren't stealing any sales off the Germans, and Audi is a house of horrors when it comes to reliability, BMW is average.  The same argument of "German cars are expensive to maintain" has been made since the 80s, but more and more people keep buying German cars.

 

Audi is on like 50 consecutive months of sales gains.  The CLA and 1-series were supposed to dilute the brand image, or repair costs would drive people away, but none of that happened.  Why isn't Cadillac doing better if the Germans are so flawed?   Why did Cadillac let Lexus go from zero to #1 selling luxury car in the USA in 10 years?   Think of that, Cadillac was #1 selling luxury car in the USA for 55 years in a row, Lexus knocked them out from scratch in just 10, and Cadillac never recovered.  

 

I used to be a big Cadillac fan, but it is just pathetic how they let the brand deteriorate, 55 years at #1 to now being a 5 or 6th place brand and shrinking, down 28% last month.

First off, you know damn well that JD reliabliity crap on vehicle that are less than a year old means petty little $h! for the most part. How can a company know how reliable a car is in less than a year's time? Seriously? 

 

Second, I know first hand that Mercedes cost way more to own and maintain than your little JD charts reveal. Own one with some miles on it and that'll tell the story, post warranty. I've owned a C350 and had the AC condensor go out at about 80k miles(2k to fix), thermostat under 100k($400 to fix - did it myself for the cost of the thermostat($100) and coolant($35) and little $h! went out on it like the auto wipers, passenger rear door lock knob randomly flew off and had to take the door panel off to realign the piece that the knob screws into(HOW THE F DOES A LOCK KNOB JUST FALL OFF?!?!). 

 

Want more? 

 

Girlfriend owns a G500.. Constant issue with the doors not locking or unlocking. Every few fuel fill-ups the gas cap light warning comes on(after replacing it twice), multiple light bulbs are out that the vehicle warns about but I've tried replacing all of them and they just don't work, driver front headlight has fried the harness twice(how the F does that happen?), She's had the window motor go in the driver front and passenger rear once each dropping the glass, Windshield wiper motor went once. Oh, and the 6 disc changer in the rear won't eject so there's no using that, just the one in the dash...sorry no getting those CDs out w/o going to a dealer.. 

 

Yeah, reliable cars. 

 

Oh I forgot the best one of them all!!!

 

Her G500 would randomly just shut off. Driving, idling, on railroad tracks(happened once, not joking - The location is 2 sets of tracks and the road T's on the other side so you're going slow to make a turn.) and sometimes it would start right back up, sometimes it wouldn't. That's about as dangerous as a car can get if you're cruising at 70-80 on the interstate and you lose all power steering and brakes out of nowhere. I was with her twice when it happened and they tried taking it to dealers but it was so sporadic that it was nearly impossible to diagnose.

Edited May 4, 2016 by ccap41

[oldshurst442]

Just for the record....

 

'Twas the Japanese that showed the world how to build reliable luxury and exotic cars...

 

Lexus and Acura (Toyota and Honda respectively) lead the way.

German cars to this day, are horrid.

Always were.

 

Casa earlier eluded to something.

Cadillac lost some sales to horrid failure of technologies...V8-6-4 did no favors to the brand.

Also, and more importantly, was the shift of changing definitions of what a then modern view of luxury was...the sport oriented luxury sedan.

Acura Legend paved the way with BMW and its 3 Series.

No...not even the 5 Series in the 1980s was a hit. It took the E39 5 Series in the MID-1990s to get acknowledgement.

The early 1990s FWD Cadillac STS was a bigger hit than the E34 BMW 5 Series.

 

Audi had better traction going forward than BMW but a 1980s pedal acceleration problem cut their momentum forward.

Mercedes Benz....in the 1980s, was starting to become a luxury car brand again, but even Cadillac in the 1980s had a bigger following.

What Cadillac failed to do was promote the RIGHT vehicles for that changing perception...

They promoted the Allante to compete in an area where Mercedes Benz just dominated....the R129 SL 500 of 1989 was a brand new SL series car, and Mercedes Benz to this day NEVER turned back...and Cadillac had the Allante to do battle with...

The Allante was a fine car, and a fine car to do battle with the 1970s R102 SL car...a couple of steps behind for Cadillac me thinks...

 

Cadillac also went to battle with the RWD Fleetwood when people already had enough of this type of car.

People wanted the FWD STS rather than the Fleetwood.

Cadillac made the Eldorado....which was not exactly what people were looking for.

Cadillac did the Catera...in the same way the Germans did their own luxury RWD cars, in their own home market,  but low and behold, dumb Americans only saw the BS with Cadillac, and NOT with the German brands...

 

And today...ironically, people want Cadillac to do Fleetwood type cars again, but without the floaty ride...as seen how popular the Escalade is...as seen how well perceived the Ciel and El Miraj concepts were received WORLDWIDE...

 

Ill add this...

It seems to me that most people cannot fathom a small Cadillac.

Cadillacs are supposed to be as big as Texas...

 

Anyways, yet another rant was had by me...hope you enjoyed it!

Edited May 4, 2016 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

The Cadillac product planners have often missed, and when they saw the 3-series take off they did a quick fix of Cimarron and did more damage. RWD was popular for luxury cars in the late 90s, they took another shortcut with Caters and did more damage.

Their decision making since the 80s has been reactionary and short sighted. It was posted on another thread that Mercedes and BMW would be screwed if they didn't have SUVs, which is true of any brand. But Mercedes has 5 SUVs. They say the market shift coming and were ready for it.

Cadillac never gets out in front or dictates where the market is going or creates a new niche.

[balthazar]

mercedes hasn't created any new niches either, to be honest. Their 'carpet bombing' product planning has also resulted in some damage & sales flops. Lest we forget; the cheap, cost-cutting C230 hatchback disaster.

 

MB learned a ton about luxury vehicles by benchmarking Cadillac features, innovation & tech, because up thru the '80s their cars simply weren't very luxurious or competitive at all. The chassis's weren't bad, but the interiors were junk and a lot of the body building was a decade (or more) behind. MB didn't come into it's own until the '90s tho. 

[ccap41]

 

Every car is going to be different.  Two people can buy the same car (doesn't matter which brand) and have different experiences with it.  I am sure there are people that bought a Ford Fusion and put 200,000 miles on it trouble free, others that had problem after problem.  It is luck of the draw to some extent.

 

Mercedes has the best owner loyalty of any luxury brand.  If they made such a terrible, unreliable car more people would leave.  Mercedes posted their best annual sales in 2015, they just had their best ever April in 2016.  Even if the cars are unreliable (which JD power says they are top 8 for 3 years in a row, #2 in 2014) the customers keep buying them.  Yes, Mercedes has high scheduled maintenance costs, yet customers keep buying them.

 

Cadillac was 14th, 3rd and 4th in reliability the past 3 years.  One not so good year, followed up by 2 very good ones.  But they aren't stealing any sales off the Germans, and Audi is a house of horrors when it comes to reliability, BMW is average.  The same argument of "German cars are expensive to maintain" has been made since the 80s, but more and more people keep buying German cars.

 

Audi is on like 50 consecutive months of sales gains.  The CLA and 1-series were supposed to dilute the brand image, or repair costs would drive people away, but none of that happened.  Why isn't Cadillac doing better if the Germans are so flawed?   Why did Cadillac let Lexus go from zero to #1 selling luxury car in the USA in 10 years?   Think of that, Cadillac was #1 selling luxury car in the USA for 55 years in a row, Lexus knocked them out from scratch in just 10, and Cadillac never recovered.  

 

I used to be a big Cadillac fan, but it is just pathetic how they let the brand deteriorate, 55 years at #1 to now being a 5 or 6th place brand and shrinking, down 28% last month.

First off, you know damn well that JD reliabliity crap on vehicle that are less than a year old means petty little $h! for the most part. How can a company know how reliable a car is in less than a year's time? Seriously? 

 

Second, I know first hand that Mercedes cost way more to own and maintain than your little JD charts reveal. Own one with some miles on it and that'll tell the story, post warranty. I've owned a C350 and had the AC condensor go out at about 80k miles(2k to fix), thermostat under 100k($400 to fix - did it myself for the cost of the thermostat($100) and coolant($35) and little $h! went out on it like the auto wipers, passenger rear door lock knob randomly flew off and had to take the door panel off to realign the piece that the knob screws into(HOW THE F DOES A LOCK KNOB JUST FALL OFF?!?!). 

 

Want more? 

 

Girlfriend owns a G500.. Constant issue with the doors not locking or unlocking. Every few fuel fill-ups the gas cap light warning comes on(after replacing it twice), multiple light bulbs are out that the vehicle warns about but I've tried replacing all of them and they just don't work, driver front headlight has fried the harness twice(how the F does that happen?), She's had the window motor go in the driver front and passenger rear once each dropping the glass, Windshield wiper motor went once. Oh, and the 6 disc changer in the rear won't eject so there's no using that, just the one in the dash...sorry no getting those CDs out w/o going to a dealer.. 

 

Yeah, reliable cars. 

 

Oh I forgot the best one of them all!!!

 

Her G500 would randomly just shut off. Driving, idling, on railroad tracks(happened once, not joking - The location is 2 sets of tracks and the road T's on the other side so you're going slow to make a turn.) and sometimes it would start right back up, sometimes it wouldn't. That's about as dangerous as a car can get if you're cruising at 70-80 on the interstate and you lose all power steering and brakes out of nowhere. I was with her twice when it happened and they tried taking it to dealers but it was so sporadic that it was nearly impossible to diagnose.

 

I'm going to bump this so hopefully all get to see the fantastic reliability that MB offers.  

[surreal1272]

 

 

Every car is going to be different.  Two people can buy the same car (doesn't matter which brand) and have different experiences with it.  I am sure there are people that bought a Ford Fusion and put 200,000 miles on it trouble free, others that had problem after problem.  It is luck of the draw to some extent.

 

Mercedes has the best owner loyalty of any luxury brand.  If they made such a terrible, unreliable car more people would leave.  Mercedes posted their best annual sales in 2015, they just had their best ever April in 2016.  Even if the cars are unreliable (which JD power says they are top 8 for 3 years in a row, #2 in 2014) the customers keep buying them.  Yes, Mercedes has high scheduled maintenance costs, yet customers keep buying them.

 

Cadillac was 14th, 3rd and 4th in reliability the past 3 years.  One not so good year, followed up by 2 very good ones.  But they aren't stealing any sales off the Germans, and Audi is a house of horrors when it comes to reliability, BMW is average.  The same argument of "German cars are expensive to maintain" has been made since the 80s, but more and more people keep buying German cars.

 

Audi is on like 50 consecutive months of sales gains.  The CLA and 1-series were supposed to dilute the brand image, or repair costs would drive people away, but none of that happened.  Why isn't Cadillac doing better if the Germans are so flawed?   Why did Cadillac let Lexus go from zero to #1 selling luxury car in the USA in 10 years?   Think of that, Cadillac was #1 selling luxury car in the USA for 55 years in a row, Lexus knocked them out from scratch in just 10, and Cadillac never recovered.  

 

I used to be a big Cadillac fan, but it is just pathetic how they let the brand deteriorate, 55 years at #1 to now being a 5 or 6th place brand and shrinking, down 28% last month.

First off, you know damn well that JD reliabliity crap on vehicle that are less than a year old means petty little $h! for the most part. How can a company know how reliable a car is in less than a year's time? Seriously? 

 

Second, I know first hand that Mercedes cost way more to own and maintain than your little JD charts reveal. Own one with some miles on it and that'll tell the story, post warranty. I've owned a C350 and had the AC condensor go out at about 80k miles(2k to fix), thermostat under 100k($400 to fix - did it myself for the cost of the thermostat($100) and coolant($35) and little $h! went out on it like the auto wipers, passenger rear door lock knob randomly flew off and had to take the door panel off to realign the piece that the knob screws into(HOW THE F DOES A LOCK KNOB JUST FALL OFF?!?!). 

 

Want more? 

 

Girlfriend owns a G500.. Constant issue with the doors not locking or unlocking. Every few fuel fill-ups the gas cap light warning comes on(after replacing it twice), multiple light bulbs are out that the vehicle warns about but I've tried replacing all of them and they just don't work, driver front headlight has fried the harness twice(how the F does that happen?), She's had the window motor go in the driver front and passenger rear once each dropping the glass, Windshield wiper motor went once. Oh, and the 6 disc changer in the rear won't eject so there's no using that, just the one in the dash...sorry no getting those CDs out w/o going to a dealer.. 

 

Yeah, reliable cars. 

 

Oh I forgot the best one of them all!!!

 

Her G500 would randomly just shut off. Driving, idling, on railroad tracks(happened once, not joking - The location is 2 sets of tracks and the road T's on the other side so you're going slow to make a turn.) and sometimes it would start right back up, sometimes it wouldn't. That's about as dangerous as a car can get if you're cruising at 70-80 on the interstate and you lose all power steering and brakes out of nowhere. I was with her twice when it happened and they tried taking it to dealers but it was so sporadic that it was nearly impossible to diagnose.

 

I'm going to bump this so hopefully all get to see the fantastic reliability that MB offers.  

 

And I'm going to help you because some people need a reality check. You want to like said brand? Fine. No one is stopping you. However, that should come with a healthy dose of reality to help cure any kind of brand related blindness.

 

Very well said btw ccap.

[surreal1272]

 

Every car is going to be different.  Two people can buy the same car (doesn't matter which brand) and have different experiences with it.  I am sure there are people that bought a Ford Fusion and put 200,000 miles on it trouble free, others that had problem after problem.  It is luck of the draw to some extent.

 

Mercedes has the best owner loyalty of any luxury brand.  If they made such a terrible, unreliable car more people would leave.  Mercedes posted their best annual sales in 2015, they just had their best ever April in 2016.  Even if the cars are unreliable (which JD power says they are top 8 for 3 years in a row, #2 in 2014) the customers keep buying them.  Yes, Mercedes has high scheduled maintenance costs, yet customers keep buying them.

 

Cadillac was 14th, 3rd and 4th in reliability the past 3 years.  One not so good year, followed up by 2 very good ones.  But they aren't stealing any sales off the Germans, and Audi is a house of horrors when it comes to reliability, BMW is average.  The same argument of "German cars are expensive to maintain" has been made since the 80s, but more and more people keep buying German cars.

 

Audi is on like 50 consecutive months of sales gains.  The CLA and 1-series were supposed to dilute the brand image, or repair costs would drive people away, but none of that happened.  Why isn't Cadillac doing better if the Germans are so flawed?   Why did Cadillac let Lexus go from zero to #1 selling luxury car in the USA in 10 years?   Think of that, Cadillac was #1 selling luxury car in the USA for 55 years in a row, Lexus knocked them out from scratch in just 10, and Cadillac never recovered.  

 

I used to be a big Cadillac fan, but it is just pathetic how they let the brand deteriorate, 55 years at #1 to now being a 5 or 6th place brand and shrinking, down 28% last month.

First off, you know damn well that JD reliabliity crap on vehicle that are less than a year old means petty little $h! for the most part. How can a company know how reliable a car is in less than a year's time? Seriously? 

 

Second, I know first hand that Mercedes cost way more to own and maintain than your little JD charts reveal. Own one with some miles on it and that'll tell the story, post warranty. I've owned a C350 and had the AC condensor go out at about 80k miles(2k to fix), thermostat under 100k($400 to fix - did it myself for the cost of the thermostat($100) and coolant($35) and little $h! went out on it like the auto wipers, passenger rear door lock knob randomly flew off and had to take the door panel off to realign the piece that the knob screws into(HOW THE F DOES A LOCK KNOB JUST FALL OFF?!?!). 

 

Want more? 

 

Girlfriend owns a G500.. Constant issue with the doors not locking or unlocking. Every few fuel fill-ups the gas cap light warning comes on(after replacing it twice), multiple light bulbs are out that the vehicle warns about but I've tried replacing all of them and they just don't work, driver front headlight has fried the harness twice(how the F does that happen?), She's had the window motor go in the driver front and passenger rear once each dropping the glass, Windshield wiper motor went once. Oh, and the 6 disc changer in the rear won't eject so there's no using that, just the one in the dash...sorry no getting those CDs out w/o going to a dealer.. 

 

Yeah, reliable cars. 

 

Oh I forgot the best one of them all!!!

 

Her G500 would randomly just shut off. Driving, idling, on railroad tracks(happened once, not joking - The location is 2 sets of tracks and the road T's on the other side so you're going slow to make a turn.) and sometimes it would start right back up, sometimes it wouldn't. That's about as dangerous as a car can get if you're cruising at 70-80 on the interstate and you lose all power steering and brakes out of nowhere. I was with her twice when it happened and they tried taking it to dealers but it was so sporadic that it was nearly impossible to diagnose.

 

Man, I would have set that last G500 on fire on the MB lot if they told me they couldn't diagnose that problem. That is simply unacceptable for a brand that prides itself on being the "best or nothing else". Don't know if that had the start/stop system while idling, but if so then that was clearly the issue. Electronics can be a nightmare and they are even worse on European models. The Japanese have had the best handle on that since the early 90s (with a few exceptions of course). The domestics are getting better but still have some ways to go IMO. However, the Euro brands are by and large, the worst of the bunch when it comes to electronics. Again, this isn't even debatable unless you are just hopelessly blind and aspire to be a professional bar mover.

[balthazar]

The Best… or Nothing… or This Cheap Crap :

 

[ccap41]

 

 

 

Every car is going to be different.  Two people can buy the same car (doesn't matter which brand) and have different experiences with it.  I am sure there are people that bought a Ford Fusion and put 200,000 miles on it trouble free, others that had problem after problem.  It is luck of the draw to some extent.

 

Mercedes has the best owner loyalty of any luxury brand.  If they made such a terrible, unreliable car more people would leave.  Mercedes posted their best annual sales in 2015, they just had their best ever April in 2016.  Even if the cars are unreliable (which JD power says they are top 8 for 3 years in a row, #2 in 2014) the customers keep buying them.  Yes, Mercedes has high scheduled maintenance costs, yet customers keep buying them.

 

Cadillac was 14th, 3rd and 4th in reliability the past 3 years.  One not so good year, followed up by 2 very good ones.  But they aren't stealing any sales off the Germans, and Audi is a house of horrors when it comes to reliability, BMW is average.  The same argument of "German cars are expensive to maintain" has been made since the 80s, but more and more people keep buying German cars.

 

Audi is on like 50 consecutive months of sales gains.  The CLA and 1-series were supposed to dilute the brand image, or repair costs would drive people away, but none of that happened.  Why isn't Cadillac doing better if the Germans are so flawed?   Why did Cadillac let Lexus go from zero to #1 selling luxury car in the USA in 10 years?   Think of that, Cadillac was #1 selling luxury car in the USA for 55 years in a row, Lexus knocked them out from scratch in just 10, and Cadillac never recovered.  

 

I used to be a big Cadillac fan, but it is just pathetic how they let the brand deteriorate, 55 years at #1 to now being a 5 or 6th place brand and shrinking, down 28% last month.

First off, you know damn well that JD reliabliity crap on vehicle that are less than a year old means petty little $h! for the most part. How can a company know how reliable a car is in less than a year's time? Seriously? 

 

Second, I know first hand that Mercedes cost way more to own and maintain than your little JD charts reveal. Own one with some miles on it and that'll tell the story, post warranty. I've owned a C350 and had the AC condensor go out at about 80k miles(2k to fix), thermostat under 100k($400 to fix - did it myself for the cost of the thermostat($100) and coolant($35) and little $h! went out on it like the auto wipers, passenger rear door lock knob randomly flew off and had to take the door panel off to realign the piece that the knob screws into(HOW THE F DOES A LOCK KNOB JUST FALL OFF?!?!). 

 

Want more? 

 

Girlfriend owns a G500.. Constant issue with the doors not locking or unlocking. Every few fuel fill-ups the gas cap light warning comes on(after replacing it twice), multiple light bulbs are out that the vehicle warns about but I've tried replacing all of them and they just don't work, driver front headlight has fried the harness twice(how the F does that happen?), She's had the window motor go in the driver front and passenger rear once each dropping the glass, Windshield wiper motor went once. Oh, and the 6 disc changer in the rear won't eject so there's no using that, just the one in the dash...sorry no getting those CDs out w/o going to a dealer.. 

 

Yeah, reliable cars. 

 

Oh I forgot the best one of them all!!!

 

Her G500 would randomly just shut off. Driving, idling, on railroad tracks(happened once, not joking - The location is 2 sets of tracks and the road T's on the other side so you're going slow to make a turn.) and sometimes it would start right back up, sometimes it wouldn't. That's about as dangerous as a car can get if you're cruising at 70-80 on the interstate and you lose all power steering and brakes out of nowhere. I was with her twice when it happened and they tried taking it to dealers but it was so sporadic that it was nearly impossible to diagnose.

 

I'm going to bump this so hopefully all get to see the fantastic reliability that MB offers.  

 

And I'm going to help you because some people need a reality check. You want to like said brand? Fine. No one is stopping you. However, that should come with a healthy dose of reality to help cure any kind of brand related blindness.

 

Very well said btw ccap.

 

It's all true things that have happened too. And you know how much trouble my Fords and beretta gave me? My alternator went out on the Beretta, few batteries, and last year at 20 years old and 160k miles on it the trans finally went and needed a rebuilt and the rebuilt on that was only $500 more than the AC compressor on my C350. Fords never had an issue but this is the first one I've kept over a year, lol Both mustangs and SVT Focus were only mine for roughly 12-15 months each and my Escape is going strong still with no Ford appointments, just maintenance items so far. 

 

To your other post,

 

Yeah well I've told her/her parents(who pay for it...) its a POS and a money pit but I'm not the one paying for any of it so it's not my decision. It's a little older(2005, I believe) and does not have start-stop..otherwise that would probably break on it too. 

 

Full disclosure, I like MB. I like MB a lot actually. If I had the money for a C or E class size cars from Europe I would buy Mercedes over BMW,  Audi, or Jaguar pretty easily. I am just not blind to the fact that all of those brands I just listed cost out the ass if anything breaks outside of warranty. Way more than a domestic of Japanese brand. Pretty, perform very well, classy, expensive(every sense of the word). 

Edited May 4, 2016 by ccap41

[smk4565]

Mercedes invented the 4-door coupe, which Audi, VW and BMW were quick to copy.  Now all the mainstream sedans want to look like a 4-door coupe since that is the trand.  CLS started it all in 2004. 

 

The C230 was junk, lesson learned and they got out of that and changed course. 

 

The 1963 Mercedes 600 was overly engineered, and pioneered a lot of technology.  That car paved the way for a lot of what the S-class got in the 70s and 80s.

[ccap41]

Oh sorry I forgot my Beretta's door handle broke(stupid vertical style handle for anybody who remembers) and it was about $115. 

Mercedes invented the 4-door coupe, which Audi, VW and BMW were quick to copy.  Now all the mainstream sedans want to look like a 4-door coupe since that is the trand.  CLS started it all in 2004. 

 

The C230 was junk, lesson learned and they got out of that and changed course. 

 

The 1963 Mercedes 600 was overly engineered, and pioneered a lot of technology.  That car paved the way for a lot of what the S-class got in the 70s and 80s.

Trend or aerodynamic laws are forcing that body shape? 

 

https://spaceflightsystems.grc.nasa.gov/education/rocket/shaped.html

Edited May 4, 2016 by ccap41

[surreal1272]

Oh sorry I forgot my Beretta's door handle broke(stupid vertical style handle for anybody who remembers) and it was about $115. 

Mercedes invented the 4-door coupe, which Audi, VW and BMW were quick to copy.  Now all the mainstream sedans want to look like a 4-door coupe since that is the trand.  CLS started it all in 2004. 

 

The C230 was junk, lesson learned and they got out of that and changed course. 

 

The 1963 Mercedes 600 was overly engineered, and pioneered a lot of technology.  That car paved the way for a lot of what the S-class got in the 70s and 80s.

Trend or aerodynamic laws are forcing that body shape? 

 

https://spaceflightsystems.grc.nasa.gov/education/rocket/shaped.html

And why anyone would be proud of being the first to the most useless version of a sedan (and further lending credence as to why more folks buy CUVs these days) is beyond me. Don't get me wrong. The CLS is sexy as hell and I would have one if I didn't have to foot over the maintenance bill but let's be realistic here. I don't have kids. It's just my wife and I and always will be so a coupe based sedan is not a big deal to me because hardly anyone will be in the backseat. However, I am in the minority in that department and most folks have kids and such and they will quickly outgrow those types of cars and move right into a CUV without even looking at another sedan. 

 

Of course, I like to play the weirdo car when it comes to some cars and would rather have this Mercedes. Yummy.

 

Edited May 4, 2016 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

What body shape?? The raised-beltline, slightly faster-back 4-dr sedan?

That's so minor, if a name hadn't been coined- no one would know it was even a 'thing'. Which it isn't.

It's a higher belt line & less trunk surface. And it's never sold well.

[ccap41]

Surreal,

 

That's one sexy looking wagon you pictured there! 

[smk4565]

I pulled the luxury sales from 2010 and 2015 to compare how much everyone has grown.  Everyone is up since 2010 since the market rebounded.  I ranked it based on 2015 sales volume.  Mercedes had the biggest volume gain, Audi is the fastest growing, nearly doubling sales in the past 5 years.

 

 

     Brand        2015 sales           2010 sales             Change             % Change

BMW                346,023                       220,113                      +125,910                 +57.2%

Lexus               344,601                       229,329                      +115,272                 +50.2%

Mercedes        343,088                        216,448                      +126,640                 +58.5%                (Sprinter not included)

Audi                 202,202                       101,629                      +100,573                 +98.9%

Acura              177,165                        133,606                       +43,449                  +32.5%

Cadillac           175,267                       146,925                       +28,342                  +19.3%

Infiniti              133,498                       103,411                        +30,087                 +29.1%

Lincoln            101,227                        85,828                         +15,399                 +17.9%

Edited May 5, 2016 by smk4565

[balthazar]

Toyota and Chevrolet and Nissan have grown, too!!

[ccap41]

 

 

 

Every car is going to be different.  Two people can buy the same car (doesn't matter which brand) and have different experiences with it.  I am sure there are people that bought a Ford Fusion and put 200,000 miles on it trouble free, others that had problem after problem.  It is luck of the draw to some extent.

 

Mercedes has the best owner loyalty of any luxury brand.  If they made such a terrible, unreliable car more people would leave.  Mercedes posted their best annual sales in 2015, they just had their best ever April in 2016.  Even if the cars are unreliable (which JD power says they are top 8 for 3 years in a row, #2 in 2014) the customers keep buying them.  Yes, Mercedes has high scheduled maintenance costs, yet customers keep buying them.

 

Cadillac was 14th, 3rd and 4th in reliability the past 3 years.  One not so good year, followed up by 2 very good ones.  But they aren't stealing any sales off the Germans, and Audi is a house of horrors when it comes to reliability, BMW is average.  The same argument of "German cars are expensive to maintain" has been made since the 80s, but more and more people keep buying German cars.

 

Audi is on like 50 consecutive months of sales gains.  The CLA and 1-series were supposed to dilute the brand image, or repair costs would drive people away, but none of that happened.  Why isn't Cadillac doing better if the Germans are so flawed?   Why did Cadillac let Lexus go from zero to #1 selling luxury car in the USA in 10 years?   Think of that, Cadillac was #1 selling luxury car in the USA for 55 years in a row, Lexus knocked them out from scratch in just 10, and Cadillac never recovered.  

 

I used to be a big Cadillac fan, but it is just pathetic how they let the brand deteriorate, 55 years at #1 to now being a 5 or 6th place brand and shrinking, down 28% last month.

First off, you know damn well that JD reliabliity crap on vehicle that are less than a year old means petty little $h! for the most part. How can a company know how reliable a car is in less than a year's time? Seriously? 

 

Second, I know first hand that Mercedes cost way more to own and maintain than your little JD charts reveal. Own one with some miles on it and that'll tell the story, post warranty. I've owned a C350 and had the AC condensor go out at about 80k miles(2k to fix), thermostat under 100k($400 to fix - did it myself for the cost of the thermostat($100) and coolant($35) and little $h! went out on it like the auto wipers, passenger rear door lock knob randomly flew off and had to take the door panel off to realign the piece that the knob screws into(HOW THE F DOES A LOCK KNOB JUST FALL OFF?!?!). 

 

Want more? 

 

Girlfriend owns a G500.. Constant issue with the doors not locking or unlocking. Every few fuel fill-ups the gas cap light warning comes on(after replacing it twice), multiple light bulbs are out that the vehicle warns about but I've tried replacing all of them and they just don't work, driver front headlight has fried the harness twice(how the F does that happen?), She's had the window motor go in the driver front and passenger rear once each dropping the glass, Windshield wiper motor went once. Oh, and the 6 disc changer in the rear won't eject so there's no using that, just the one in the dash...sorry no getting those CDs out w/o going to a dealer.. 

 

Yeah, reliable cars. 

 

Oh I forgot the best one of them all!!!

 

Her G500 would randomly just shut off. Driving, idling, on railroad tracks(happened once, not joking - The location is 2 sets of tracks and the road T's on the other side so you're going slow to make a turn.) and sometimes it would start right back up, sometimes it wouldn't. That's about as dangerous as a car can get if you're cruising at 70-80 on the interstate and you lose all power steering and brakes out of nowhere. I was with her twice when it happened and they tried taking it to dealers but it was so sporadic that it was nearly impossible to diagnose.

 

I'm going to bump this so hopefully all get to see the fantastic reliability that MB offers.  

 

And I'm going to help you because some people need a reality check. You want to like said brand? Fine. No one is stopping you. However, that should come with a healthy dose of reality to help cure any kind of brand related blindness.

 

Very well said btw ccap.

 

Hey check out what I found in the link you posted earlier! 

 

That was a 2 for the price of 1 link, great job!

 

"IntelliChoice cost of ownership calculates the CLA250 would command $1220 more to operate over 5 years than the 320i. Regal and CC: $1987 and $3738 extra over the BMW"

http://www.motortrend.com/news/entry-level-luxury-sedan-comparison/

[Oracle of Delphi]

Hmmmm, what does Cadillac of today mean to me? Well to be honest (NOTHING), the names of their vehicles stand for or mean nothing ... Bring back the legacy names !!! Remember when Pontiac brought you the first ever G8? Where's Pontiac now ???

[surreal1272]

I pulled the luxury sales from 2010 and 2015 to compare how much everyone has grown.  Everyone is up since 2010 since the market rebounded.  I ranked it based on 2015 sales volume.  Mercedes had the biggest volume gain, Audi is the fastest growing, nearly doubling sales in the past 5 years.

 

 

     Brand        2015 sales           2010 sales             Change             % Change

BMW                346,023                       220,113                      +125,910                 +57.2%

Lexus               344,601                       229,329                      +115,272                 +50.2%

Mercedes        343,088                        216,448                      +126,640                 +58.5%                (Sprinter not included)

Audi                 202,202                       101,629                      +100,573                 +98.9%

Acura              177,165                        133,606                       +43,449                  +32.5%

Cadillac           175,267                       146,925                       +28,342                  +19.3%

Infiniti              133,498                       103,411                        +30,087                 +29.1%

Lincoln            101,227                        85,828                         +15,399                 +17.9%

And that BS has already been shot down.

[smk4565]

Good point by Oracle of Delphi. And Cadillac has ads for "the first ever CT6"

[oldshurst442]

Hmmmm, what does Cadillac of today mean to me? Well to be honest (NOTHING), the names of their vehicles stand for or mean nothing ... Bring back the legacy names !!! Remember when Pontiac brought you the first ever G8? Where's Pontiac now ???

 

I agree with you on this...

 

There are  certain brands that could pull off alphanumerics.

There are others that need real names because real names evoke emotions...

Even if the real names are fake....

 

The Germans do well with alphanumerics...

They have a history with it.

Also...numbers with letters evoke engineering stuff...and THAT is what the German brands want to be known as...

"Engineered Like No Other"

"The Ultimate Driving Machine"

 

Cadillac on the other hand...

 

America, Americans, Cadillac...is a state of being....

Numbers are cold...

Numbers are the EXACT opposite of what Cadillac and America represent...

 

Rebellion, Freedom, Anger, Joy, Opportunity, Industrious, Wealth, Arrogance Grandeur...

THIS is what America and Cadillac are all about...

 

Eldorado (Freedom and Wealth and Arrogance and Joy and Grandeur)

El Miraj (

 

Ciel (Opportunity and Grandeur as in the sky is the limit and quite possibly Joy)

 

Evoq (Arrogance)

Seville, DeVille (Wealth)

Coupe DeVille (Arrogance...the French are known for their arrogance too...and coupe is a French word and so is DeVille and Cadillac was a french dude)

 

Fleetwood (grandeur and style-think of Fleetwood, England)

 

 

These alphanumerics for Cadillac are killing me.

Edited May 5, 2016 by oldshurst442