What Would Buy Instead- Audi A8L Edition

[Frisky Dingo]

C&D just wrapped up another instrumented test, this time on the A8L. The A8L 4.0T Sport, to be exact. As it mentions in the article, the A8 sits in an interesting spot in the marketplace. AWD only, but still much cheaper than some rivals, it nevertheless has compelling performance and luxury.

 

Here's the test for those interested- http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-audi-a8l-40t-sport-test-review

 

 

As always, you will have from 10% below base price to 10% over as-tested price to spend on a similar-ish new vehicle.

 

Base price- $91,425.

 

As-tested- $96,175.

 

Rules-

 

1)Must be a NEW, on-sale production vehicle.

 

2)Must be a similar vehicle- ie, a luxury sedan of some sort.

 

3)You must spend at least $82,285, but no more than $105,795.

[Frisky Dingo]

Built a pretty loaded 650i Gran Coupe M Sport in Space Grey w/ Red interior out to $105,095.

 

[ccap41]

I'm just trying to load my pictures... It'd be tough to pass up an E63 S. 

[ccap41]

2016 E63 AMG S

 

I added the "night package", illuminated TriStar, and one other thing that I don't remember..I think heated rear seats.. Whatever it was it was just to bump up to the price limit.

 

This is what the "night package" is. It blacks out the front and side skirts and I think it looked great.

 

 

And my interior.. As always.. Black on black. 

[G. David Felt]

Easy, 2016 CTS-V

 

[ccap41]

Ya know.. for some stupid reason I didn't even think of the CTS-V.. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

Obviously a CTS-V or a CT6 Platinum. With these two American vehicles avail.. why the f@#k would anyone buy from Germany, in this segment, at this point?

[Frisky Dingo]

Because the Cadillacs have nothing on the German cars' interiors at this price point. Nor do they have AWD. Nor are as good looking. Idk, there's a few just right off the bat.

 

That said, the CTS-V was another option I strongly considered, and would be totally happy with. The A8L itself was probably my 2nd pick, with the CTS-V or loaded S8 behind it.

[oldshurst442]

Well, anything in this price range....is Tesla territory for me. So....

As it happens, I am doing back to back Tesla choices...

BMW M6 Gran Coupe or M-B CLS 63 AMG are a tad above this price range...but the Model S hits the spot perfectly.

 

Base price of a Model S 90D is $88 000. Id option it out with all kinds of stuff to hit the $105 000 limit. This is without any tax credits. With tax credits its the P90D.

 

A white Model S....but since Im buying the $88 000   90D version..I think a black Brabus styled Model S seems just about right. I dont know how much more this costs...whatever. Darth Vader has traded in his 1987 Buick GNX for this one...

[smk4565]

All those little cars have no where near the interior room of an A8L. Or the interior quality. S550 is the obvious choice for this price, even if awd and Premium 1 package are all you can get on it for the price restriction.

[oldshurst442]

Touché about some of the selections not being in the same class of the Audi A8L.

That includes my selection of the Tesla Model S.

So...I always sometimes find ways to circumvent the rules to fit my agendas, I will comply to be exactly in the same category as the Audi A8L.

The ONLY LWB car in this price range Id want to own, and it is long in the tooth for 2016, is the Jaguar XJL supercharged. Starts at $95 000. I could option it out to $105 000 easily...

 

[Suaviloquent]

Easy. Mine config'd is at $92k

 

Though I would immediately get rid of that horrendous grille and get the one from the premium luxury collection installed.

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

Because the Cadillacs have nothing on the German cars' interiors at this price point. Nor do they have AWD. Nor are as good looking. Idk, there's a few just right off the bat.

 

That said, the CTS-V was another option I strongly considered, and would be totally happy with. The A8L itself was probably my 2nd pick, with the CTS-V or loaded S8 behind it.

 

 

Please. The CT6 Platinum interior triumphs the boring ass A8L.. it is AWD. Looks waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the tired VW look... It does have comparable HP especially when weight is levied in. f@#k Germany.. and f@#k German cars 

[Suaviloquent]

 

Because the Cadillacs have nothing on the German cars' interiors at this price point. Nor do they have AWD. Nor are as good looking. Idk, there's a few just right off the bat.

 

That said, the CTS-V was another option I strongly considered, and would be totally happy with. The A8L itself was probably my 2nd pick, with the CTS-V or loaded S8 behind it.

 

 

Please. The CT6 Platinum interior triumphs the boring ass A8L.. it is AWD. Looks waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the tired VW look... It does have comparable HP especially when weight is levied in. f@#k Germany.. and f@#k German cars 

 

 

What's funny is that the A8 and CT6 are actually much closer in weight than the comparison made against the S-Class - like about 250 lbs.

 

And the interior of the CT6 is not on the level of the Audi.

 

I picked the CT6 because I know exactly what's underneath the car. Discerning lessors in this segment - if they don't care about the exact details will find the Audi A8L interior far better furnished than the Cadillac. No question about it.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

Because the Cadillacs have nothing on the German cars' interiors at this price point. Nor do they have AWD. Nor are as good looking. Idk, there's a few just right off the bat.

 

That said, the CTS-V was another option I strongly considered, and would be totally happy with. The A8L itself was probably my 2nd pick, with the CTS-V or loaded S8 behind it.

 

 

Please. The CT6 Platinum interior triumphs the boring ass A8L.. it is AWD. Looks waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the tired VW look... It does have comparable HP especially when weight is levied in. f@#k Germany.. and f@#k German cars 

 

 

What's funny is that the A8 and CT6 are actually much closer in weight than the comparison made against the S-Class - like about 250 lbs.

 

And the interior of the CT6 is not on the level of the Audi.

 

I picked the CT6 because I know exactly what's underneath the car. Discerning lessors in this segment - if they don't care about the exact details will find the Audi A8L interior far better furnished than the Cadillac. No question about it.

 

 

 

 

Like I said.. its on par. Deal with it.. or Don't.. 

[Frisky Dingo]

 

Because the Cadillacs have nothing on the German cars' interiors at this price point. Nor do they have AWD. Nor are as good looking. Idk, there's a few just right off the bat.

 

That said, the CTS-V was another option I strongly considered, and would be totally happy with. The A8L itself was probably my 2nd pick, with the CTS-V or loaded S8 behind it.

 

 

Please. The CT6 Platinum interior triumphs the boring ass A8L.. it is AWD. Looks waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the tired VW look... It does have comparable HP especially when weight is levied in. f@#k Germany.. and f@#k German cars 

 

 

 

The CTS-V isn't AWD. And nobody but you thinks the CT6 interior is as nice as an A8. Styling is subjective. You asked why anyone would buy a German car at this price, I answered you. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

Because the Cadillacs have nothing on the German cars' interiors at this price point. Nor do they have AWD. Nor are as good looking. Idk, there's a few just right off the bat.

 

That said, the CTS-V was another option I strongly considered, and would be totally happy with. The A8L itself was probably my 2nd pick, with the CTS-V or loaded S8 behind it.

 

 

Please. The CT6 Platinum interior triumphs the boring ass A8L.. it is AWD. Looks waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the tired VW look... It does have comparable HP especially when weight is levied in. f@#k Germany.. and f@#k German cars 

 

 

 

The CTS-V isn't AWD. And nobody but you thinks the CT6 interior is as nice as an A8. Styling is subjective. You asked why anyone would buy a German car at this price, I answered you. 

 

 

 

U answered why U would buy a German car. Sorry bud.. unlike U I refuse to be a groupie for Stuttgart, Ingolstadt, and Munich .

 

The CT6 Platinum interior is as nice as the A8's.. It has every amenity, or damn near, that that POS German does.  Even the American hating CR praised its interior as on the same level as the Germans. 

[smk4565]

I am not an Audi guy, but the A8 interior is better than any American or Japanese car.

One thing not to forget about the A8 4.0, is that is has the same 0-60 time as a BMW M4 or Camaro SS. It is a fast car.

[Frisky Dingo]

 

 

 

Because the Cadillacs have nothing on the German cars' interiors at this price point. Nor do they have AWD. Nor are as good looking. Idk, there's a few just right off the bat.

 

That said, the CTS-V was another option I strongly considered, and would be totally happy with. The A8L itself was probably my 2nd pick, with the CTS-V or loaded S8 behind it.

 

 

Please. The CT6 Platinum interior triumphs the boring ass A8L.. it is AWD. Looks waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the tired VW look... It does have comparable HP especially when weight is levied in. f@#k Germany.. and f@#k German cars 

 

 

 

The CTS-V isn't AWD. And nobody but you thinks the CT6 interior is as nice as an A8. Styling is subjective. You asked why anyone would buy a German car at this price, I answered you. 

 

 

 

U answered why U would buy a German car. Sorry bud.. unlike U I refuse to be a groupie for Stuttgart, Ingolstadt, and Munich .

 

The CT6 Platinum interior is as nice as the A8's.. It has every amenity, or damn near, that that POS German does.  Even the American hating CR praised its interior as on the same level as the Germans. 

 

 

You lose a lot of credibility when you call the A8 a POS. Just saying. You like the Cadillac. Good for you. We get it, it's not a surprise to anyone. There's no reason to thrash other cars over your preference, however. It makes you look childish.

[Cmicasa the Great]

I am not an Audi guy, but the A8 interior is better than any American or Japanese car.

One thing not to forget about the A8 4.0, is that is has the same 0-60 time as a BMW M4 or Camaro SS. It is a fast car.

 

 

U may not be an Audi guy but U are a Germany is better guy.. to the point that I am probably not wrong in say that U probably wanted Hitler to win WWII. 

 

Also.. how is the 0-60 time relevant in this conversation.. especially that of the M4 and Camaro versus an AWD vehicle?

 

Lastly.. and this is a dooooozy. Have U ever even been in a CT6??? I have yet to read that U have.. and altho I may be wrong.. if U had.. U would have most likely written a few expected negative paragraphs about already

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

 

 

Because the Cadillacs have nothing on the German cars' interiors at this price point. Nor do they have AWD. Nor are as good looking. Idk, there's a few just right off the bat.

 

That said, the CTS-V was another option I strongly considered, and would be totally happy with. The A8L itself was probably my 2nd pick, with the CTS-V or loaded S8 behind it.

 

 

Please. The CT6 Platinum interior triumphs the boring ass A8L.. it is AWD. Looks waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the tired VW look... It does have comparable HP especially when weight is levied in. f@#k Germany.. and f@#k German cars 

 

 

 

The CTS-V isn't AWD. And nobody but you thinks the CT6 interior is as nice as an A8. Styling is subjective. You asked why anyone would buy a German car at this price, I answered you. 

 

 

 

U answered why U would buy a German car. Sorry bud.. unlike U I refuse to be a groupie for Stuttgart, Ingolstadt, and Munich .

 

The CT6 Platinum interior is as nice as the A8's.. It has every amenity, or damn near, that that POS German does.  Even the American hating CR praised its interior as on the same level as the Germans. 

 

 

You lose a lot of credibility when you call the A8 a POS. Just saying. You like the Cadillac. Good for you. We get it, it's not a surprise to anyone. There's no reason to thrash other cars over your preference, however. It makes you look childish.

 

 

 

Have known more than a few people who have owned Audi A8s.. A6s.. and A4s... I would love to get them to on this forum so they too could attest to how much of a POS it was to them.. Sorry .. great engineering also should include not breaking down every chance it gets in my world of spending $100 large on a vehicle.Just sayin. 

[smk4565]

I am not an Audi guy, but the A8 interior is better than any American or Japanese car.

One thing not to forget about the A8 4.0, is that is has the same 0-60 time as a BMW M4 or Camaro SS. It is a fast car.

 

 

U may not be an Audi guy but U are a Germany is better guy.. to the point that I am probably not wrong in say that U probably wanted Hitler to win WWII. 

 

Also.. how is the 0-60 time relevant in this conversation.. especially that of the M4 and Camaro versus an AWD vehicle?

 

Lastly.. and this is a dooooozy. Have U ever even been in a CT6??? I have yet to read that U have.. and altho I may be wrong.. if U had.. U would have most likely written a few expected negative paragraphs about already

I like Mercedes, doesn't mean I like all German cars by default. I like the interior of the A7 and A8, and I think BMW sedans for the most part have good ride and handling balance. That is all I like from either brand and I don't like Porsche, though I certainly can respect something like the 959.

I have not sat in a CT6, I was only able to look inside the car at the auto show. I have sat in the A8, it is impressive. When I get a chance to sit in a CT6 maybe I'll change my mind but I doubt it.

As far as the question of why people would buy a German POS as you call the A8, I am just saying it is a fast car. The A8 4.0 does 0-60 in about 4 seconds and gets 27 or 28 mpg highway. Those are impressive numbers.

Audi's do break down all the time though, I wouldn't buy one, but I can why people sit in it and read the spec sheet and then buy it.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

I am not an Audi guy, but the A8 interior is better than any American or Japanese car.

One thing not to forget about the A8 4.0, is that is has the same 0-60 time as a BMW M4 or Camaro SS. It is a fast car.

 

 

U may not be an Audi guy but U are a Germany is better guy.. to the point that I am probably not wrong in say that U probably wanted Hitler to win WWII. 

 

Also.. how is the 0-60 time relevant in this conversation.. especially that of the M4 and Camaro versus an AWD vehicle?

 

Lastly.. and this is a dooooozy. Have U ever even been in a CT6??? I have yet to read that U have.. and altho I may be wrong.. if U had.. U would have most likely written a few expected negative paragraphs about already

I have not sat in a CT6, I was only able to look inside the car at the auto show. I have sat in the A8, it is impressive. When I get a chance to sit in a CT6 maybe I'll change my mind but I doubt it.

 

 

 

I doubt it too. In fact.. I'm pretty confident that Cadillac could secretly steal the S-Class interior out of the NEXT S-Class.. put it in the CT6 first.. and U'd call it inferior UNTIL.. U found out that it was originally the S-Class interior. Your bias is worst than mine, for reasons I can't fathom. 

 

Thing is that I've sat in.. driven and spent some time in the A8. It is an impressive interior.. but that doesn't make it anymore impressive than the CT6 Plat's interior outside of reviewers hate of CUE.. which after 1 month of dealing with.. I am lost as to what the issue was in the first place. It is fast. It is intuitive.. and touch screen in nothing but the norm at this point. Even people bitching about it not having knobs for  the Volume are just being automotive groupies. The slide feature is easy and simple if.. and only if.. U've managed to make it past second grade. 

[Suaviloquent]

 

 

 

Because the Cadillacs have nothing on the German cars' interiors at this price point. Nor do they have AWD. Nor are as good looking. Idk, there's a few just right off the bat.

 

That said, the CTS-V was another option I strongly considered, and would be totally happy with. The A8L itself was probably my 2nd pick, with the CTS-V or loaded S8 behind it.

 

 

Please. The CT6 Platinum interior triumphs the boring ass A8L.. it is AWD. Looks waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the tired VW look... It does have comparable HP especially when weight is levied in. f@#k Germany.. and f@#k German cars 

 

 

 

The CTS-V isn't AWD. And nobody but you thinks the CT6 interior is as nice as an A8. Styling is subjective. You asked why anyone would buy a German car at this price, I answered you. 

 

 

 

U answered why U would buy a German car. Sorry bud.. unlike U I refuse to be a groupie for Stuttgart, Ingolstadt, and Munich .

 

The CT6 Platinum interior is as nice as the A8's.. It has every amenity, or damn near, that that POS German does.  Even the American hating CR praised its interior as on the same level as the Germans. 

 

 

Irreverence at this point is nonsensical. The Platinum interior is not at nice. Proof right here: MT's own Cadillac lover hated how the interior undelivered so much that he thought all of Cadillac's interior designers and material purchasers ought to be fired.

 

Look - I love the CT6. But the interior is what holds the CT6 back. It's the weakest link. And in these types of cars, the interior is more important than you think.

 

It's a comfortable interior. But the details are lacking. Many more plastic surfaces feel more like Chevy than Cadillac. and the leather just isn't that one step above I was expecting. There's gaudy combinations of wood trim and carbon fibre. And the Platinum is the only one worth even considering. Don't expect the $65k CT6 to have a flagship level interior. I came away thinking that perhaps the CTS might have equally as good an interior. And that's great for the CTS. Not so great for the CT6.

 

And I expect V8 models of the CT6 to cost about $100k. Many people buying cylinders and size who don't give a single damn about how a car drives (like how can anyone say an A8 and S-Class don't drive great) or how fast a car is on each of its available engines... they will only see the CT6 lacking the flagship interior and having its price advantage partially eroded away.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

 

 

Because the Cadillacs have nothing on the German cars' interiors at this price point. Nor do they have AWD. Nor are as good looking. Idk, there's a few just right off the bat.

 

That said, the CTS-V was another option I strongly considered, and would be totally happy with. The A8L itself was probably my 2nd pick, with the CTS-V or loaded S8 behind it.

 

 

Please. The CT6 Platinum interior triumphs the boring ass A8L.. it is AWD. Looks waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the tired VW look... It does have comparable HP especially when weight is levied in. f@#k Germany.. and f@#k German cars 

 

 

 

The CTS-V isn't AWD. And nobody but you thinks the CT6 interior is as nice as an A8. Styling is subjective. You asked why anyone would buy a German car at this price, I answered you. 

 

 

 

U answered why U would buy a German car. Sorry bud.. unlike U I refuse to be a groupie for Stuttgart, Ingolstadt, and Munich .

 

The CT6 Platinum interior is as nice as the A8's.. It has every amenity, or damn near, that that POS German does.  Even the American hating CR praised its interior as on the same level as the Germans. 

 

 

Irreverence at this point is nonsensical. The Platinum interior is not at nice. Proof right here: MT's own Cadillac lover hated how the interior undelivered so much that he thought all of Cadillac's interior designers and material purchasers ought to be fired.

 

Look - I love the CT6. But the interior is what holds the CT6 back. It's the weakest link. And in these types of cars, the interior is more important than you think.

 

It's a comfortable interior. But the details are lacking. Many more plastic surfaces feel more like Chevy than Cadillac. and the leather just isn't that one step above I was expecting. There's gaudy combinations of wood trim and carbon fibre. And the Platinum is the only one worth even considering. Don't expect the $65k CT6 to have a flagship level interior. I came away thinking that perhaps the CTS might have equally as good an interior. And that's great for the CTS. Not so great for the CT6.

 

And I expect V8 models of the CT6 to cost about $100k. Many people buying cylinders and size who don't give a single damn about how a car drives (like how can anyone say an A8 and S-Class don't drive great) or how fast a car is on each of its available engines... they will only see the CT6 lacking the flagship interior and having its price advantage partially eroded away.

 

 

 

 

My bad.. I thought we were talking about real life experience in the vehicles and not what some other guy told U to think. According to some on MT.. a PUSHROD is completely inferior to the DOHCs in the world.. but hey.

 

The CT6.. versus a regular A8, 740i, or S550 Interior is actually on par. The problem.. and on inferior situation I can think of is when U start moving up in the echelon of flagship interiors where they are offering more customization and such.. but then.. there is also a jump in price that the CT6 is not at yet. With the possible delay of the CT8... I expect that your issues with the car at THAT point should be shut down. 

[ccap41]

 

 

 

 

 

Please. The CT6 Platinum interior triumphs the boring ass A8L.. it is AWD. Looks waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the tired VW look... It does have comparable HP especially when weight is levied in. f@#k Germany.. and f@#k German cars 

 

 

 

The CTS-V isn't AWD. And nobody but you thinks the CT6 interior is as nice as an A8. Styling is subjective. You asked why anyone would buy a German car at this price, I answered you. 

 

 

 

U answered why U would buy a German car. Sorry bud.. unlike U I refuse to be a groupie for Stuttgart, Ingolstadt, and Munich .

 

The CT6 Platinum interior is as nice as the A8's.. It has every amenity, or damn near, that that POS German does.  Even the American hating CR praised its interior as on the same level as the Germans. 

 

 

Irreverence at this point is nonsensical. The Platinum interior is not at nice. Proof right here: MT's own Cadillac lover hated how the interior undelivered so much that he thought all of Cadillac's interior designers and material purchasers ought to be fired.

 

Look - I love the CT6. But the interior is what holds the CT6 back. It's the weakest link. And in these types of cars, the interior is more important than you think.

 

It's a comfortable interior. But the details are lacking. Many more plastic surfaces feel more like Chevy than Cadillac. and the leather just isn't that one step above I was expecting. There's gaudy combinations of wood trim and carbon fibre. And the Platinum is the only one worth even considering. Don't expect the $65k CT6 to have a flagship level interior. I came away thinking that perhaps the CTS might have equally as good an interior. And that's great for the CTS. Not so great for the CT6.

 

And I expect V8 models of the CT6 to cost about $100k. Many people buying cylinders and size who don't give a single damn about how a car drives (like how can anyone say an A8 and S-Class don't drive great) or how fast a car is on each of its available engines... they will only see the CT6 lacking the flagship interior and having its price advantage partially eroded away.

 

 

 

 

My bad.. I thought we were talking about real life experience in the vehicles and not what some other guy told U to think. According to some on MT.. a PUSHROD is completely inferior to the DOHCs in the world.. but hey.

 

The CT6.. versus a regular A8, 740i, or S550 Interior is actually on par. The problem.. and on inferior situation I can think of is when U start moving up in the echelon of flagship interiors where they are offering more customization and such.. but then.. there is also a jump in price that the CT6 is not at yet. With the possible delay of the CT8... I expect that your issues with the car at THAT point should be shut down. 

 

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28725/cadillac-ct8-cancelled/

[G. David Felt]

Interesting that they just released what I consider an S class competition in 6 door trim as a limo version.

 

http://www.drivespark.com/four-wheelers/2016/audi-unveils-six-door-a8l-extended-limousine-014453.html

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

 

My bad.. I thought we were talking about real life experience in the vehicles and not what some other guy told U to think. According to some on MT.. a PUSHROD is completely inferior to the DOHCs in the world.. but hey.

 

The CT6.. versus a regular A8, 740i, or S550 Interior is actually on par. The problem.. and on inferior situation I can think of is when U start moving up in the echelon of flagship interiors where they are offering more customization and such.. but then.. there is also a jump in price that the CT6 is not at yet. With the possible delay of the CT8... I expect that your issues with the car at THAT point should be shut down. 

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28725/cadillac-ct8-cancelled/

Thing is that the blurb was never confirmed by JDN .. the show, nor off the show.. or anyone at GM. He did say that by 2020 we will see 11 new vehicles. Furthermore... I am of firm belief that the CT6 can get the upgrades it needs to handle even the S65 if Cadillac wanted. Completely pointless to build a CT8.

 

 

 

My bad.. I thought we were talking about real life experience in the vehicles and not what some other guy told U to think. According to some on MT.. a PUSHROD is completely inferior to the DOHCs in the world.. but hey.

 

The CT6.. versus a regular A8, 740i, or S550 Interior is actually on par. The problem.. and on inferior situation I can think of is when U start moving up in the echelon of flagship interiors where they are offering more customization and such.. but then.. there is also a jump in price that the CT6 is not at yet. With the possible delay of the CT8... I expect that your issues with the car at THAT point should be shut down. 

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28725/cadillac-ct8-cancelled/

Thing is that the blurb was never confirmed by JDN .. the show, nor off the show.. or anyone at GM. He did say that by 2020 we will see 11 new vehicles. Furthermore... I am of firm belief that the CT6 can get the upgrades it needs to handle even the S65 if Cadillac wanted. Completely pointless to build a CT8.

[oldshurst442]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28725/cadillac-ct8-cancelled/

 

Thing is that the blurb was never confirmed by JDN .. the show, nor off the show.. or anyone at GM. He did say that by 2020 we will see 11 new vehicles. Furthermore... I am of firm belief that the CT6 can get the upgrades it needs to handle even the S65 if Cadillac wanted. Completely pointless to build a CT8.

 

 

Yes...JDN NEVER confirmed ANYTHING...

11 new models in 5 years could mean anything....

 

However, when JDN has confirmed that a CT6 is NOT the flagship to end all flagships, then a CT6 is hardly a car to go against a Mercedes-Benz flagship.

Even if a CT6 gets mucho interior upgrades and the CT6 platform is world class, just BECAUSE JDN went on public record implying the CT6 has a better successor coming shortly, and because many Cadillac haters will NEVER let us forget what JDN said....that alone has sealed the CT6's destiny to be a second class citizen.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28725/cadillac-ct8-cancelled/

 

Thing is that the blurb was never confirmed by JDN .. the show, nor off the show.. or anyone at GM. He did say that by 2020 we will see 11 new vehicles. Furthermore... I am of firm belief that the CT6 can get the upgrades it needs to handle even the S65 if Cadillac wanted. Completely pointless to build a CT8.

 

 

Yes...JDN NEVER confirmed ANYTHING...

11 new models in 5 years could mean anything....

 

However, when JDN has confirmed that a CT6 is NOT the flagship to end all flagships, then a CT6 is hardly a car to go against a Mercedes-Benz flagship.

Even if a CT6 gets mucho interior upgrades and the CT6 platform is world class, just BECAUSE JDN went on public record implying the CT6 has a better successor coming shortly, and because many Cadillac haters will NEVER let us forget what JDN said....that alone has sealed the CT6's destiny to be a second class citizen.

 

 

 

 

To WHO??? The people who post on these forums and who very seldom ever pay more than $30K for any and every car they have ever purchased.. normally on credit?

 

Sorry.. JDN (if U are listening).. the average luxo buyer who sees the CT6 and who has never ever visited a forum or could care less what U say will instantly see the CT6 as the Flagship of Cadillac and on par with the S550 or 750i just at a cheaper price. Why??? Because its big and luxo. The only.. and I mean only.. area where my statement could come back to bite me is when that same buyer goes to the dealership to get a V8 powered CT6.. for the sake of V8s.. and can't find one. That being said.. the LT1 465hp should be thrown in immediately.. easily triumphing over the 750i. 

 

Question to anyone. Does the LS460 compete with the Big Germans in the minds of the buyers (not U)? Does the XJ??? I think it does. I think perception of those buyers in that segment have no issue or prejudice if a friend pulls up in an LS or XJ and parks next to their S-Class, A8 or 7Series. I can bet good money that they will have zero issue with this gargantuan Cadillac either. How do I kno??? I kno a great many of them. Don't fool yourself.  Hell.. many of them are actually paying monthly.. not because of the tax benefits of the Lease... but because they can't afford to pay cash for it..

 

Its like by some craziness.. if I pull up in my VSeries.. M5 and E63AMG buyers are gonna kick sand in my face and tell me to go home. LOL.. Please..

[ccap41]

 

 

 

 

 

My bad.. I thought we were talking about real life experience in the vehicles and not what some other guy told U to think. According to some on MT.. a PUSHROD is completely inferior to the DOHCs in the world.. but hey.

 

The CT6.. versus a regular A8, 740i, or S550 Interior is actually on par. The problem.. and on inferior situation I can think of is when U start moving up in the echelon of flagship interiors where they are offering more customization and such.. but then.. there is also a jump in price that the CT6 is not at yet. With the possible delay of the CT8... I expect that your issues with the car at THAT point should be shut down. 

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28725/cadillac-ct8-cancelled/

Thing is that the blurb was never confirmed by JDN .. the show, nor off the show.. or anyone at GM. He did say that by 2020 we will see 11 new vehicles. Furthermore... I am of firm belief that the CT6 can get the upgrades it needs to handle even the S65 if Cadillac wanted. Completely pointless to build a CT8.

 

Ahhhh thank you, nice catch! 

 

Yeah if there are supposed to be 11 new vehicles by 2020 I wouldn't completely rule out a CT8. 

 

Heck, GM already as a motor to compete with an S65. 650hp/650tq.  

[oldshurst442]

To WHO??? The people who post on these forums and who very seldom ever pay more than $30K for any and every car they have ever purchased.. normally on credit?

 

Hopefully the CT6 has the goods to change public perception on its own merits.

The CTS certainly has them, yet many normal people have not taken to it.

Its a long process. Slowly Cadillac will get there but it aint gonna be with the CT6 alone, its successor and other models...11 new models in 5 years will help.

But we are talking about the CT6, not about the 11 new models in 5 years.

Cadillac has a long road ahead, it starts with the CT6.

Sorry Casa, the CT6 will NOT garner any respect, its a car produced too early on the road to recovery.

 

Sorry.. JDN (if U are listening).. the average luxo buyer who sees the CT6 and who has never ever visited a forum or could care less what U say will instantly see the CT6 as the Flagship of Cadillac and on par with the S550 or 750i just at a cheaper price. Why??? Because its big and luxo. The only.. and I mean only.. area where my statement could come back to bite me is when that same buyer goes to the dealership to get a V8 powered CT6.. for the sake of V8s.. and can't find one. That being said.. the LT1 465hp should be thrown in immediately.. easily triumphing over the 750i.

 

 

First of all...cheaper price...

Irony...you yourself said...CHEAPER price....

Cheaper prices is synonymous with...CHEAP....

Yeah yeah....I know, most people have no clue what REAL luxury is all about, not just in the automotive world, handbags and cell phones included, however, in the S Class world, exclusivity is the name of the game, and a HIGH price tag is apart of the game plan.

 

Secondly, Cadillac does NOT command high prices, so they are relegated to just above Buicks and Genesis...so...right off the bat, a CT6 is a second class citizen.

 

No V8 just yet?

Another blow to that high class image....

The CT6 will get a V8 in 2/3/4 years from now???!!!

 

Sorry Casa, by then, the ship has sailed away...

In 3/4/5 years from now, the S Class will get a 4 door coupe, negating  bespoked Cadillac V8 CT6 excitement.

Because, the S Class is King today, 3/4/5 years from now, the S Class 4 door coupe thing will only continue that trend....

 

Question to anyone. Does the LS460 compete with the Big Germans in the minds of the buyers (not U)? Does the XJ??? I think it does. I think perception of those buyers in that segment have no issue or prejudice if a friend pulls up in an LS or XJ and parks next to their S-Class, A8 or 7Series. I can bet good money that they will have zero issue with this gargantuan Cadillac either. How do I kno??? I kno a great many of them. Don't fool yourself.  Hell.. many of them are actually paying monthly.. not because of the tax benefits of the Lease... but because they can't afford to pay cash for it..

 

I will agree that with the CT6, many more inroads will be made. But many more will have to be forged.

Anecdote:

My cousin, who now lives in NYC and is an associate at an engineering firm ALWAYS swore by BMWs...

He moved to San Diego in the early 2000s from Montreal and drove shytty BMW 3 Series cars, until the ATS came along. He had moved to NYC the year the ATS came out and decided to lease a 2.0T. 

Well, lets just say he loves the 2016 Camaro SS as he test drove it, and he is waiting impatiently to lease the CT6...he has a Jeep GC right now, for travelling purposes...but next year, I think he will be getting a CT6...

 

Its like by some craziness.. if I pull up in my VSeries.. M5 and E63AMG buyers are gonna kick sand in my face and tell me to go home. LOL.. Please..

 

 

Well, maybe not the M5 driver (if he is a REAL car enthusiast), but an E63AMG buyer will.

M-B in this range has a very loyal following.

A douchy BMW owner who bought his Bimmer for the badge will also.

 

Casa, Cadillac once had that also.

Cadillac let it slip away.

 

BMW if they  dont right the ship, they will find themselves where Cadillac was in the 1990s soon enough.

Ditto for M-B.

However, Cadillac in 2016 does not have the right tools to steamroll past the Germans they way the Germans did to Cadillac in the 1980s and 1990s...

Maybe when those 11 new models in 5 years come to fruition.

But them Germans are not staying still....like Cadillac did in the 1990s with half-assed attempts.

The high end stuff from M-B is really good. Bland, but good.

When a possible CT8 maybe mothballed, one should hope that an Escalade and a higher model SUV will not only equal the pizzazz of high end M-B AMG products, but SURPASS them....because a CT6, does not really surpass them...and if it does, its not by much. Cadillac needs to leave the Germans in the dust...and as of 2016, it aint that at all.....

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

 

 

 

 

My bad.. I thought we were talking about real life experience in the vehicles and not what some other guy told U to think. According to some on MT.. a PUSHROD is completely inferior to the DOHCs in the world.. but hey.

 

The CT6.. versus a regular A8, 740i, or S550 Interior is actually on par. The problem.. and on inferior situation I can think of is when U start moving up in the echelon of flagship interiors where they are offering more customization and such.. but then.. there is also a jump in price that the CT6 is not at yet. With the possible delay of the CT8... I expect that your issues with the car at THAT point should be shut down. 

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28725/cadillac-ct8-cancelled/

Thing is that the blurb was never confirmed by JDN .. the show, nor off the show.. or anyone at GM. He did say that by 2020 we will see 11 new vehicles. Furthermore... I am of firm belief that the CT6 can get the upgrades it needs to handle even the S65 if Cadillac wanted. Completely pointless to build a CT8.

Ahhhh thank you, nice catch! 

 

Yeah if there are supposed to be 11 new vehicles by 2020 I wouldn't completely rule out a CT8. 

 

Heck, GM already as a motor to compete with an S65. 650hp/650tq.

 

 

 

 

No issue. Hell yeah they do. 640HP in my ride and its so smooth I'd already swear it was the Ultra V8 that was set to replace the NorthStar back in the day. This is with a nice sounding exhaust note to boot. 

 

Also.. the 11 vehicles I'm sure has the CT5 and CT3 in there as well.. not to mention the Escalade replacement by then. That leave 8. I do kno that their are 3 more CUVs coming.. leaving 5 slots. 

[smk4565]

Not even in Fantasyland at the intersection of Dream Street and Hope and A Prayer Avenue will the CT6 get enough upgrades to compete with an S65.

No one is paying $220,000 for a CT6.

[ccap41]

No but if they drop in their 650/650 beast it'll be scared in the performance world at least. The S65 crowd will have the slower of the luxo barges. HA. Better package/luxury/interior/whatever could still be up for discussion but it would be awesome to see the American hog out gun the biggest baddest Benz. ..with a little engine that's even in Camaros! 

[oldshurst442]

We are forgetting one thing.

 

SNOOTINESS in this segment is what drives sales.

 

Lets face it, Cadillac has a loooooooong way to go to be even graced with a mention without laughing let alone a visit at the GM MR. Goodwrench dealership...

 

THIS is also what Cadillac needs to succeed in the high roller poker game not just cars:

 

THIS does not cut it..

 

 

Even this..is a fail

Largest GM dealership in the Montreal area...Brossard...a Montreal suburb.

 

Cadillac NEEDS stand alone dealerships...all of them HAVE to be stand alone!

OK...MOST of them.

Especially the ones where the money is.

Dallas, Los Angeles, New York City, Glendale, Toronto....

[Frisky Dingo]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to pitch in and say I concur on the CT6 not being anywhere, anywhere near enough car to compete with the S65, no matter how much power you throw at it. I have an S65 on the showroom right now. I've driven it. It outclasses our Bentley CGT W12 Speed's interior. No joke. It's impossibly luxurious and well-crafted. It makes any Cadillac or BMW seem like a Scion in comparison. Sorry.

 

I'd still rather have the Bentley, but the new S is one nice f#ck1ng car.

[G. David Felt]

Not even in Fantasyland at the intersection of Dream Street and Hope and A Prayer Avenue will the CT6 get enough upgrades to compete with an S65.

No one is paying $220,000 for a CT6.

Very true, the CT6 is a competitor to the E-Class and can compete fine there. The CT8 will come in the future once Cadillac fills out their portfolio.

[G. David Felt]

We are forgetting one thing.

 

SNOOTINESS in this segment is what drives sales.

 

Lets face it, Cadillac has a loooooooong way to go to be even graced with a mention without laughing let alone a visit at the GM MR. Goodwrench dealership...

 

THIS is also what Cadillac needs to succeed in the high roller poker game not just cars:

 

THIS does not cut it..

 

 

Even this..is a fail

Largest GM dealership in the Montreal area...Brossard...a Montreal suburb.

 

Cadillac NEEDS stand alone dealerships...all of them HAVE to be stand alone!

OK...MOST of them.

Especially the ones where the money is.

Dallas, Los Angeles, New York City, Glendale, Toronto....

While I love the stand alone dealerships, I do wonder about this as I am seeing more and more MB dealerships that also have Sprint and Smart cars on them as MB seems to be going to this one stop all dealerships.

 

Makes one wonder if BMW will be doing this as they move to have BMW/Mini in one building.

 

Personally I love the stand alone Dealerships we see in China. Cadillac does need this also.

 

I love my Doug's Northwest Cadillac, the people are great, but the dealership is an old Cadillac, Buick and Oldsmobile building that is now only Cadillac.

 

 

Luxury this does not say to me!

[ccap41]

About the interior of the CT6 compared to the S class.. Do you guys think Cadillac should go the route similar to Lincoln ONLY in the sense of offering a "black label" like interior? And with it being Cadillac I assume it would be over the top(compared to the Lincoln). 

 

I thought about that the other day when it came up. Do you think they should keep the pricing and very good interiors and have a second high end line? Do you think it would sell? or work?

 

 

Completely agree with the dealership thing. I've said that way back a MT that they need to separate themselves more and it all starts with their dealerships not being physically connected to a Chevy dealership. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by ccap41

[Frisky Dingo]

About the interior of the CT6 compared to the S class.. Do you guys think Cadillac should go the route similar to Lincoln ONLY in the sense of offering a "black label" like interior? And with it being Cadillac I assume it would be over the top(compared to the Lincoln). 

 

I thought about that the other day when it came up. Do you think they should keep the pricing and very good interiors and have a second high end line? Do you think it would sell? or work?

 

 

Completely agree with the dealership thing. I've said that way back a MT that they need to separate themselves more and it all starts with their dealerships not being physically connected to a Chevy dealership. 

 

 

I think this would be a terrible, terrible idea. Nothing says you're not a real luxury brand like having to offer a sub-line of vehicles to get a really nice interior.

 

Not only that, but I think it'd fail anyway.

 

 

Simply put, Cadillac needs to stop playing the price card and build a car that's on the same level as the cars they are gunning for. Making a car that's almost as nice, but a little cheaper isn't cutting it.

[ccap41]

 

About the interior of the CT6 compared to the S class.. Do you guys think Cadillac should go the route similar to Lincoln ONLY in the sense of offering a "black label" like interior? And with it being Cadillac I assume it would be over the top(compared to the Lincoln). 

 

I thought about that the other day when it came up. Do you think they should keep the pricing and very good interiors and have a second high end line? Do you think it would sell? or work?

 

 

Completely agree with the dealership thing. I've said that way back a MT that they need to separate themselves more and it all starts with their dealerships not being physically connected to a Chevy dealership. 

 

 

I think this would be a terrible, terrible idea. Nothing says you're not a real luxury brand like having to offer a sub-line of vehicles to get a really nice interior.

 

Not only that, but I think it'd fail anyway.

 

 

Simply put, Cadillac needs to stop playing the price card and build a car that's on the same level as the cars they are gunning for. Making a car that's almost as nice, but a little cheaper isn't cutting it.

 

I don't think they should downgrade what they have now to make a premium interior above it but keep what they have and then make a super luxurious one on top. 

 

I do see what you mean, having to pay extra for a super nice interior on a near 100k car already.. 

[smk4565]

They should take the CT6 platinum interior and put it in a a CTS and ATS. They have a better chance lifting those cars up to Mercedes-Audi level than they do lifting the CT6. Plus I don't think anyone will pay for $100k Cadillac sedan no matter what it is.

I think Cadillac should go Crossover crazy, and not only do front drive XT1, XT3, XT5, XT7, but also at least 2 rear drive crossovers, XT4 on alpha, XT6 on Omega. Then they would have 6 crossovers and can compete with Q3 the coking Acura version of HRV, all they way up to Porsche Cayenne and X5 M.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Not even in Fantasyland at the intersection of Dream Street and Hope and A Prayer Avenue will the CT6 get enough upgrades to compete with an S65.

No one is paying $220,000 for a CT6.

 

 

No one is actually paying $220,000 for an S65 either. Good friend of min literally just bought one and got $50K.. read that 50K off sticker. Didn't even have to haggle a lil bit. 

 

And while I'll be the forst to say that that it would be stupid.. idiotic for anyone to think that the CT6 could command $220,000.. I will also be the first to point put that what ccap was talking about was strictly engine HP.. and how the LT4 can certainly lay waste to a V12Biturbo and laugh about it as it was doing it. Seriously Mo.. U act as if because STUPID.. DUMB.. IDIOTIC.. Bitchboy of person would pay waaaaaaay too much for a Benz that somehow that says that they are actually better, and NOT that their customers are just f@#kin morons. 

 

Let me be the first to say.. if U spend $224K on an S65 AMG.. U are a DUMB.. IDIOTIC.. Bitchboy

[Cmicasa the Great]

They should take the CT6 platinum interior and put it in a a CTS and ATS. They have a better chance lifting those cars up to Mercedes-Audi level than they do lifting the CT6. Plus I don't think anyone will pay for $100k Cadillac sedan no matter what it is.

 

 

 

I just paid $100K for a Cadillac sedan.

 

BTW.. since U've never once sat in a CT6.. what does the Platinum interior of the CT6 feel and look like??? 

[Cmicasa the Great]

@ Dfelt.. I agree on the dealership, but I am finding that the dealerships for Cadillac.. at least on the East coast are rapidly changing and getting with the times. Where I bought my recent Caddy in VA.. and the bottom one where I have purchased the 3 before

 

[G. David Felt]

@ Dfelt.. I agree on the dealership, but I am finding that the dealerships for Cadillac.. at least on the East coast are rapidly changing and getting with the times. Where I bought my recent Caddy in VA.. and the bottom one where I have purchased the 3 before

 

The top dealership is what I would like to see for all Cadillac dealerships. The bottom is nice but also says dated. I like the top flow and look.

[Cmicasa the Great]

To WHO??? The people who post on these forums and who very seldom ever pay more than $30K for any and every car they have ever purchased.. normally on credit?

 

Hopefully the CT6 has the goods to change public perception on its own merits.

The CTS certainly has them, yet many normal people have not taken to it.

Its a long process. Slowly Cadillac will get there but it aint gonna be with the CT6 alone, its successor and other models...11 new models in 5 years will help.

But we are talking about the CT6, not about the 11 new models in 5 years.

Cadillac has a long road ahead, it starts with the CT6.

Sorry Casa, the CT6 will NOT garner any respect, its a car produced too early on the road to recovery.

 

Sorry.. JDN (if U are listening).. the average luxo buyer who sees the CT6 and who has never ever visited a forum or could care less what U say will instantly see the CT6 as the Flagship of Cadillac and on par with the S550 or 750i just at a cheaper price. Why??? Because its big and luxo. The only.. and I mean only.. area where my statement could come back to bite me is when that same buyer goes to the dealership to get a V8 powered CT6.. for the sake of V8s.. and can't find one. That being said.. the LT1 465hp should be thrown in immediately.. easily triumphing over the 750i.

 

 

First of all...cheaper price...

Irony...you yourself said...CHEAPER price....

Cheaper prices is synonymous with...CHEAP....

Yeah yeah....I know, most people have no clue what REAL luxury is all about, not just in the automotive world, handbags and cell phones included, however, in the S Class world, exclusivity is the name of the game, and a HIGH price tag is apart of the game plan.

 

Secondly, Cadillac does NOT command high prices, so they are relegated to just above Buicks and Genesis...so...right off the bat, a CT6 is a second class citizen.

 

No V8 just yet?

Another blow to that high class image....

The CT6 will get a V8 in 2/3/4 years from now???!!!

 

Sorry Casa, by then, the ship has sailed away...

In 3/4/5 years from now, the S Class will get a 4 door coupe, negating  bespoked Cadillac V8 CT6 excitement.

Because, the S Class is King today, 3/4/5 years from now, the S Class 4 door coupe thing will only continue that trend....

 

Question to anyone. Does the LS460 compete with the Big Germans in the minds of the buyers (not U)? Does the XJ??? I think it does. I think perception of those buyers in that segment have no issue or prejudice if a friend pulls up in an LS or XJ and parks next to their S-Class, A8 or 7Series. I can bet good money that they will have zero issue with this gargantuan Cadillac either. How do I kno??? I kno a great many of them. Don't fool yourself.  Hell.. many of them are actually paying monthly.. not because of the tax benefits of the Lease... but because they can't afford to pay cash for it..

 

I will agree that with the CT6, many more inroads will be made. But many more will have to be forged.

Anecdote:

My cousin, who now lives in NYC and is an associate at an engineering firm ALWAYS swore by BMWs...

He moved to San Diego in the early 2000s from Montreal and drove shytty BMW 3 Series cars, until the ATS came along. He had moved to NYC the year the ATS came out and decided to lease a 2.0T. 

Well, lets just say he loves the 2016 Camaro SS as he test drove it, and he is waiting impatiently to lease the CT6...he has a Jeep GC right now, for travelling purposes...but next year, I think he will be getting a CT6...

 

Its like by some craziness.. if I pull up in my VSeries.. M5 and E63AMG buyers are gonna kick sand in my face and tell me to go home. LOL.. Please..

 

 

Well, maybe not the M5 driver (if he is a REAL car enthusiast), but an E63AMG buyer will.

M-B in this range has a very loyal following.

A douchy BMW owner who bought his Bimmer for the badge will also.

 

Casa, Cadillac once had that also.

Cadillac let it slip away.

 

BMW if they  dont right the ship, they will find themselves where Cadillac was in the 1990s soon enough.

Ditto for M-B.

However, Cadillac in 2016 does not have the right tools to steamroll past the Germans they way the Germans did to Cadillac in the 1980s and 1990s...

Maybe when those 11 new models in 5 years come to fruition.

But them Germans are not staying still....like Cadillac did in the 1990s with half-assed attempts.

The high end stuff from M-B is really good. Bland, but good.

When a possible CT8 maybe mothballed, one should hope that an Escalade and a higher model SUV will not only equal the pizzazz of high end M-B AMG products, but SURPASS them....because a CT6, does not really surpass them...and if it does, its not by much. Cadillac needs to leave the Germans in the dust...and as of 2016, it aint that at all.....

 

 

 

Cheaper Price.. It is what it is. Should I have searched the Thesaurus to find a better word that floated around the point? The CT6 Platiunum is 95% S550 and it is cheaper. Would I use that term in a sales pitch.. no.. but I though I was talking to a car forum member.

 

2) Cadillac commands higher prices. The idea that because Cadillac confused the hell outta people by naming the 3rd Gen CTS.. ATS is the reason why the "CTS" sales are down The CTS is the old STS. Same size.. same position.. go figure. I will also add that with that the market has all around shifted to CUVs.. but most kno that, but only bring it up when its convenient. Just in case U forgot.. I will direct your attention to the jpeg below. Most vehicles in the segment ere down including the leaders.. and the CTS.. well what do U kno.. isn't even at the bottom of the sales parade.

 

 

3) 3-4 years from now the S-Class gets the yada yada.. So? U act as if automotive is on lock. Based on your assessment GM is currently touting 10% market share, because that was the prediction in 2009. I'm an optimist. I say that the CT6.. or CT7.. cause I don't think there will be a CT8 included in that 11 cars will do the job. 

 

4) I just skipped.. Makes no sense

 

5) Again.. U don't kno the circles I run in. Not one of my E63AMG owner colleagues have done anything but gush and slobber over my V since I got it. They did the same when I had my VCoupe. Dazed and confused as to how U speak of FACT when U are only speculating. LMFAO on how I am looked down on people I kno who do nothing but kiss my ass when I pull up.. even in the Impala.

[oldshurst442]

1. You are talking to another car forum member.

 

 A. The CT6 is cheaper in price because it is also cheaper in quality....YOU mentioned the S Class....in no way, no how does the CT6 compete in  S Class territory.

If you think the CT6 is on the same level as a 1957 Cadillac Brougham Biarritz and 1957 Eldorado Biarritz  once was, then you are just as delusional as Roger B. Smith was. Because that is what the  S Class is today along with its coupe and convertible siblings.

Sorry, a CT6 is no where near that level of opulence, ostentatiousness and arrogance.

Nice car....but in reality.....a CT6 will ultimately compete with a Lincoln Continental.

 

 

B.  Besides, Cadillac wants to get asses in the showroom and they are playing the value card....THAT is NOT how you play the luxury game.

Luxury is not about value. Its about excess....and excess costs money....

 

2. Tired old argument.

 A. its being addressed with 11 new models in 5 years....

 B. Funny, the Escalade has no issues....nor does a long in the tooth SRX....its because the flip side to your lack of models argument, besides the Slade and the SRX, no other Caddy has cachet....and THAT also contributes to the lack of acknowledgment by the people....

 

3. No, markets and trends change....

Problem is...Cadillac is slow to adapt....

Not the Germans, because in 2016....THEY are the ones to dictate what is luxury....

 

60-70 years ago..... 'twas Cadillac with mile high fins.

 

 

Its funny, because what people want from Cadillac cars....Cadillac simply does not give them...

People still want Ciel, El Miraj...

Cadillac gives them the ELR and sub-ATS vehicles....

 

Pool Side.............

Great Commercial for Escalade, Ciel or El Miraj...

 

Opulence, ostentatiousness and arrogance....

ELR...small, stubby and....green?

 

 

Cadillac has image problems..

That is why they moved to NYC...

The CT6 is a love child from the folk that want to move forward with the folk that want to stay in the past...and the CTS and ATS BOTH are suffering for it.

 

Take a look at the success of the Escalade....you will see everything in that success that the CTS and ATS are not!!!

 

4. Its an anecdote....much like yours....

 

5. which makes no sense either....

You may have friends that slobber over your CTS V....and your Impala....

I have import loving friends that slobber over my lowly Fusion....

 

I talk to regular folk all the time....and they ALL LOVE the NEW Cadillacs...

Problem is, the ones with the money and the ones without......equally.....wont be buying Cadillacs....

That lingering legacy perception problem is still around....

JDN mentions this several times in the Autoweek Dateline interview twice or thrice.

 

That is why the CT6 also plays the value card.

If I got more money than brains....I want to SPEND it all, not save it....

 

Save the difference in cash in buying a CT6 over a S65, kudos on you...

Just dont try to tell me how great it is....because I wouldnt care...

My M-B S65 AMG would have the anti-terrorist package and I wouldnt hear you through that thick anti-ballistic glass...

[smk4565]

The LT4 doesn't have the NVH characteristics needed to match any V12.   Secondly, it doesn't have the torque.  The S65 has 738 lb-ft, and has had that for 10 years now.  The head of AMG has said there would be a power bump, but not when.  I'd imagine they are waiting until the awd system and transmission are beefed up.  That engine can easily produce over 800 lb-ft of torque, they detune it to 738, because you have to put that on the ground somehow.

 

I always love the argument of how S-classes are so deeply discounted.  As if the competition doesn't do the same thing, or more.  Usually the #1 selling vehicle in a segment isn't heavily discounted.  S-class outsells it's 3 closest competitors combined.  Cadillac spends more on incentives than any of the Germans do.

Bottom line is CT8 is dead, and Cadillac isn't going to step up to the plate to go after an S63 or S65.

 

Cadillac should roll out the crossovers to really put the hurt on Acura, Infiniti, and Lincoln.  Those brands are weak and ripe for the picking.  Cadillac should try to steal all their customers.