Cadillac News: Cadillac To Make Changes In China to Appeal to Younger Buyers

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

There would be no sense to spend $1 Billion alone on Cadillac and I suspect that BMW did not spend this amount for their own Carbon Fiber structure and body panels.

 

 

 

I hope not., The ability of that thing is nothing to write home about. 

[G. David Felt]

 

 

 

There would be no sense to spend $1 Billion alone on Cadillac and I suspect that BMW did not spend this amount for their own Carbon Fiber structure and body panels.

 

 

 

I hope not., The ability of that thing is nothing to write home about. 

 

Very true, the i3 is ugly on top of awefull. Having a neighbor with one, I was not impressed at all with it and just short of 1 year he traded it in as it never lived up to the expectations BMW marketed it as. The i8 on the other hand is nice and exciting but as a hand crafted car, it is also another nightmare that BMW mechanics hate to work on. Clearly not a well thought out car.

[smk4565]

 

You can't sell dreams, you cannonly sell the product you have.

Let's first look at the TT V8. I for nearly 10 years have been arguing for a DOHC V8 to replace the Northstar. So I hope they build it. But if it is a CT6 only engine it would never have enough volume. So I hope it is used on ATS-V, CTS, Escalade etc. I just question if GM would really invest the money to do it.

As far as a mid-engine supercar goes, that has to be a carbon fiber chassis car, they don't have that now and it is too expensive to use on a Corvette. I'd like to see Mercedes build a LaFerrari competitor, but I get that they have to make a choice between that and updating their core products.

Cadillac might be able to do a front engine Grand Touring coupe. That could be Corvette, Alpha or Omega platform with the 4.2 V8.

And Mercedes doesn't try to sell their dreams? Seriously?

 

Mercedes doesn't put out lots of concept cars that show a convertible, sports car, flagship, or whatever to draw up excitement and then not deliver.  GM likes to make these exciting concepts and say things like an S-class fighter is in the works, well in 2010 they were talking about and S-class fighter, in 2016 they now say it is dead.  6 years or talk and no action.  

 

Remember these?  Great looking concepts that never saw the light of day.

 

 

The Avenir, Avista, Ciel and El Mirage will join those 3 as dream cars that would elevate the brand, but never materialized.   Mercedes showed an S-class convertible a few years ago, they put an S-class convertible on sale this year.

 

Mercedes built stuff like this:  Over the top cars that don't really make sense, but they built their dreams and put it on sale.

 

 

[oldshurst442]

I could continue where you left off SMK..with trolling GM...

 

In China..where it is said that Buick survived because of China.

Yet the Chinese did not even get to buy a Riviera.

 

 

 

The only concept GM did was this one and they managed to screw it up:

 

 

The irony in this picture is that the Pontiac Aztec would probably not fail in 2016....

Ahead of its time. Its too bad that GM makes bone headed decisions...

 

Im taking a page right out of EL K's playbook. But... Im using a "professional" AGAINST General Motors to prove a point...

 

http://www.autoextremist.com/on-the-table1/

 

 

Mr. Peter DeLorenzo wrote:
 

Word is that Cadillac is scrapping plans to finally build a true flagship luxury sedan - the CT8 - most likely due to the fact that the SUV/Crossover frenzy shows no signs of waning. The design of the CT8 was said to be based on two of the most stunning concept cars of the last ten years, the Ciel and the Elmiraj. This is a car that Cadillac desperately needed, a statement machine that would go a long way toward projecting a new image for the brand, complementing the already stellar image of the Escalade. Now? So much for "Dare Greatly" and the big talk associated with that advertising campaign. What a bunch of unmitigated bull$h!. -PMD

 

 

 

 

So much for Dare Greatly indeed...

 Yes it is indeed unmitigated bull$h!!!!!!

Edited April 7, 2016 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

I actually liked the XLR, I thought it looked good.  The interior quality was a bit of a letdown, and it just didn't have enough horsepower for the price.  The XLR was a car that had I had the money for a 3 year old used one at $40k I would have bought.  $80k new for what it was, was just too high a price, but I did like the XLR a lot, and they still look good now, 10+ years later.

 

Johan was on Autoline TV today, and the Autoline After hours was about the Cadillac XT5

 

http://www.autoline.tv

[hyperv6]

For anyone interested Melody Lee Director of brand and reputation strategy at Cadillac has responded on a web site.   

 

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/04/cadillac-launches-fashion-retail-lab-for-aspiring-designers/

 

Nice to see Cadillac people speaking out more and showing what their mind set and mission is. I hope to see more of this. 

[surreal1272]

You can't sell dreams, you cannonly sell the product you have.

Let's first look at the TT V8. I for nearly 10 years have been arguing for a DOHC V8 to replace the Northstar. So I hope they build it. But if it is a CT6 only engine it would never have enough volume. So I hope it is used on ATS-V, CTS, Escalade etc. I just question if GM would really invest the money to do it.

As far as a mid-engine supercar goes, that has to be a carbon fiber chassis car, they don't have that now and it is too expensive to use on a Corvette. I'd like to see Mercedes build a LaFerrari competitor, but I get that they have to make a choice between that and updating their core products.

Cadillac might be able to do a front engine Grand Touring coupe. That could be Corvette, Alpha or Omega platform with the 4.2 V8.

And Mercedes doesn't try to sell their dreams? Seriously?

Mercedes doesn't put out lots of concept cars that show a convertible, sports car, flagship, or whatever to draw up excitement and then not deliver.  GM likes to make these exciting concepts and say things like an S-class fighter is in the works, well in 2010 they were talking about and S-class fighter, in 2016 they now say it is dead.  6 years or talk and no action.  

 

Remember these?  Great looking concepts that never saw the light of day.

 

 

The Avenir, Avista, Ciel and El Mirage will join those 3 as dream cars that would elevate the brand, but never materialized.   Mercedes showed an S-class convertible a few years ago, they put an S-class convertible on sale this year.

 

Mercedes built stuff like this:  Over the top cars that don't really make sense, but they built their dreams and put it on sale.

 

 

You have to be kidding me right? You're going to act like Benz, as well as everyone else for that matter, doesn't put out concepts unless they are hitting the road for real? Tell me more about that F400. How about the Vision Gran Tourismo concept from 2013? Or how about the concept IAA?

Haven't seen any of those on the road so...

See SMK, it's easy to cherry pick until you realize others can do that too.

[oldshurst442]

For anyone interested Melody Lee Director of brand and reputation strategy at Cadillac has responded on a web site.   

 

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/04/cadillac-launches-fashion-retail-lab-for-aspiring-designers/

 

Nice to see Cadillac people speaking out more and showing what their mind set and mission is. I hope to see more of this. 

Yeah...they need more of that too.

To advance, influence and be part of future design trends.

 

THAT is also part of a luxury experience.

[Suaviloquent]

I watched the autoline interview.

 

Some words that stood out to me.

 

"we will go toe-to-toe"

 

"Our coverage of segments will go from 50% of 90%"

 

And the CT8 question was not asked. I think this means we will see more of the higher volume, conventional segments that get the most coverage. So XT3, and CT3 for sure.

 

Maybe some kind of CT4 Coupe. Maybe.

[oldshurst442]

I guess they DO need the volume. And the volume that comes from global markets, not just from the US and Canada.

China especially, and China probably being #1 actually.

 

Makes sense though to focus where the money is.

Market and product.

Grow the market, image and products and portfolio to make money so the halo cars could be made.

 

Isnt that what Porsche does in essence now?

 

They (Porsche) realized they needed volume cars to continue to produce the 911 and the 918 and future 918 type cars.

 

11 new models in 5 years for Cadillac, but the CT8 was not confirmed dead or alive.

But I read in another article that the CT8 will be MOTHBALLED....not dead.

Im guessing core products will be launched to increase sales and presence and when sales and presence is increased, a CT8 will be launched.

JDN said somewhere in the video that Cadillac has time.

JDN is taking his time to build Cadillac right.

 

I see his logic, and I think I like it.

Edited April 8, 2016 by oldshurst442

[Suaviloquent]

But he can no longer say that Cadillac won't follow.

 

I mean I love me some CT6. Like a for 73k you can get a nicely optioned CT6 that spanks a comparable Lexus LS or Audi or base 7 Series. But that's not the point. Cadillac should not be value for money. Okay, it should be. But that kind of value should be one where the company also has customers paying more for it than the competition.

 

The problem is that he talks about quality of revenue, and then I just sign off and think, why aren't they charging more for their best products?! The Cadillacs should be premium priced.

 

But then the legacy issues crop up. I think he was more honest about Cadillac than ever before. 

[oldshurst442]

But he can no longer say that Cadillac won't follow.

 

I mean I love me some CT6. Like a for 73k you can get a nicely optioned CT6 that spanks a comparable Lexus LS or Audi or base 7 Series. But that's not the point. Cadillac should not be value for money. Okay, it should be. But that kind of value should be one where the company also has customers paying more for it than the competition.

 

The problem is that he talks about quality of revenue, and then I just sign off and think, why aren't they charging more for their best products?! The Cadillacs should be premium priced.

 

But then the legacy issues crop up. I think he was more honest about Cadillac than ever before. 

I think he mentioned the "legacy" stuff twice.

I think he just realized its more of a  tougher uphill battle than he anticipated originally.

 

I think he saw  Cadiilacs dont command high prices. ATPs  got higher because of the way the options were bundled up NOT because the models themselves have commanded the higher price tag.  People opted to buy base cars rather than the higher trims because there were options that they did not want. JDN unbundled some options and THAT allowed for a higher price tag...

With the same breath, he mentioned that moving metal is not the way to go.

I think he had some problems with the dealer network that still wanted that business model but his solution to stay the course, unbundle some options eventually won many people over.

 

He mentioned and compared  today's Cadillac somewhat to a start=up company.

I think he is gonna start at the bottom and build confidence to finally get back on top. 

Before S-Class fighters will be offered to fight the war at the high levels, I think he is gonna start at the lower  and mid-levels first. With CUVs and SUVs as well.

Sub-ATS cars and CT5s and CUVs...

 

However, he also needs to fight the war in the trenches....at the dealership level.

He mentioned that he wants the Cadillac sales guys to tell people "boy are you lucky! Have I got something for you! And are dealership experience..."

 

Well, he has to IMPROVE that dealership experience.

A stand-alone dealership with a Lincoln style Black Label is a must ASAP with sales people that are PROFESSIONAL and KNOWLEDGEABLE.

[hyperv6]

What we do know for sure is that we really don't know much of what is coming and what they are planning. 

 

At this point we really need to just let JDN do his work and let the 11 models speak for what he and Cadillac is doing. 

For sure not ever model is going to be a home run but as long as there is progress that is key. Also not every one is going to be happy as in any case where a company needs to move on someone gets left behind. That is just a part of life and you will never satisfy everyone. 

 

I think we need to stop thinking of what we think they should do and just let them get these models out and let the public decide. 

 

Also these 11 models are not going to make Cadillac number one in 5 years. We still need to see them build the companies image as you can not buy or design  that. It has to be earned over time and continued with quality and desirable products. 

 

This is why they are targeting younger people. While they  may not buy now they will be in 5-10 years and you need to build for the future. 

Like in Football GM has treated Cadillac like  a old team that tried to build through Free Agency and with old players. It was costly and not as productive as they had liked. Today they are like the Browns building through the draft and while it will be painful at first they can establish a young viable team that can last for a while and then continue to replenish in the draft much like New England and Seattle has done. 

[hyperv6]

If anyone has not watched this interview with JDN you should take the time to watch. 

 

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/04/watch-the-entire-interview-of-cadillac-president-johan-de-nysschen-video/#comments

 

You will be much better informed on the mind set and what the thinking is inside GM and Cadillac. 

[smk4565]

I posted that interview earlier.  I think the new path of Cadillac is to introduce a ton of crossovers.  The quickest and easiest way to do that is to build them on existing GM platforms.  So I can see an XT3 based on the Envision or new Equinox, and XT7 Enclave, could do a version of the Buick Encore, or even something the size between Encore and Envision.  They could take the existing XT5 and make a crossover coupe out of it.

 

Johan wants 500,000 units a year by 2020, and he talks about being global, but they are basically an American and Chinese market player.  They need to get to more markets to get the volume he wants.  I suppose rolling out 5 more crossovers and stealing sales of Buick and GMC will boost volume, but that won't get them to 500k I don't think.  China's growth is slowing.

[balthazar]

Cadillac, despite what Johan stated, is not going to actively gun for 500K sales. It's nonsense. 

But (vs. some other luxury brands that want to 'be everything to everybody') General Motors did sell 9.8 million vehicles in 2015.

[hyperv6]

What he said was they will use China for the Volume as it is the fastest growing market. Also it is isolated enough it will hold little effect on the other markets where lower volumes are desired. 

 

They will also spread out their volumes over many models to not over saturate any market so much that the models get real common to see like a Malibu. 

 

Profit per unit will be the key as volume is less important at that point too. If they sell in China fine if not the profit per unit will keep them buoyant. 

[smk4565]

Cadillac, despite what Johan stated, is not going to actively gun for 500K sales. It's nonsense. 

But (vs. some other luxury brands that want to 'be everything to everybody') General Motors did sell 9.8 million vehicles in 2015.

So the head of the brand said his goal is 500k units by 2020, but that is not what their real plan is.  He definitely wants to sell 500k units a year, they may not get there, but that is his goal, he said so.

[balthazar]

Who cares?

It's a false target, a sound byte for the media.

I hope to hell it doesn't come to pass.

[surreal1272]

I posted that interview earlier.  I think the new path of Cadillac is to introduce a ton of crossovers.  The quickest and easiest way to do that is to build them on existing GM platforms.  So I can see an XT3 based on the Envision or new Equinox, and XT7 Enclave, could do a version of the Buick Encore, or even something the size between Encore and Envision.  They could take the existing XT5 and make a crossover coupe out of it.

 

Johan wants 500,000 units a year by 2020, and he talks about being global, but they are basically an American and Chinese market player.  They need to get to more markets to get the volume he wants.  I suppose rolling out 5 more crossovers and stealing sales of Buick and GMC will boost volume, but that won't get them to 500k I don't think.  China's growth is slowing.

So much fail in your post (more than usual), I don't even know where to start. Any production of more crossovers for Cadillac will not cannibalize sales from GMC and Buick. Thus far GM has done a much better job of making their share platform cars/trucks more distinctive. One only needs to look at the ATS and the Camaro to see that. Knowing that, it slams the door on your asinine claim of sales stealing. On top of that, who the f@#k really cares? If more Caddy's are sold, then that means higher profit margins. The last time I checked that was a good thing according to you.

 

Seriously man, if you are gong to troll GM every chance you get, can you make it look a little less obvious?

[smk4565]

Camaro is a coupe, ATS is mostly sold in Sedan trim, and Chevy to Cadillac is a big step up.    Buick Enclave or GMC Acadia Denali to Cadillac XT5 and XT7 is less of a jump.  Those could get cross shopped.  And yes I have said that it is a good thing if they sell more Cadillacs because they in theory have higher margins.  GM doesn't break out the numbers, but we can assume a luxury brand has the best margins in any company.

 

I have been saying for years to turn Cadillac loose and give them the product they need.  Cadillac should be stealing off Buick, GMC, top end Honda Pilots, Ford Explorer Titaniums, Lexus, Acura and Lincoln with ease.  All those brands have crossovers in the $40-55k space, Cadillac should be in there kicking butt.  That is a winnable fight.  For the past 15 years they have been trying to fight BMW on the sedan front and they let also rans like Lincoln actually go up in sales the past couples years.   

 

If I we running Cadillac this would be my crossover line up:

 

XT3:  D2XX platform, turbo 4 engine, similar to Lincoln MKC, Lexus NX

XT4:  Alpha platform, 2.0T, 3.0TT and 3.6 TT V6 (ATS-V engine) similar to GLC/X3

XT5: we have

XT6:  Alpha or Omega, crossover of current CTS size, 2.0T, 3.0 TT, and 4.2 TT V8 engines

XT7:  C2XX lwb, the Cadillac Enclave with 7 seats, 3.6 V6, this would be a $48-60k type vehicle against Infiniti QX60.

XT8: Omega 3 row crossover, 3.0TT V6, 4.2TT V8

 

Escalade:  add CTS-V engine, leave BOF for now as people that want a big truck like it how it is

 

6 crossovers plus Escalade, on a 6-7 year life cycle, you have 1 all new crossover per year, and one mid-cycle refresh per year.  There is probably even room for an XT2 in there.  Something GLA size or even Audi Q2 size.  That might be more for Euro or China market.

 

Kill XTS at the end of the cycle, add a convertible somewhere, anywhere.

Edited April 10, 2016 by smk4565

[smk4565]

Just had a great idea, I would add an XT-E, which is a mid-size electric crossover.  Not sure what platform that rides on, probably would have to ride on something totally new.  After those 6 above were on sale, I would roll out XT-E and CT-E (yes it is brain disease, but I didn't pick alphanumerics, I wanted Eldorado and Fleetwood).  XTE and CTE could share a mid-size electric car chassis, give them 250 mile range for base, 350 mile optional, about 350 hp, rear drive base, 500 hp all wheel drive optional, and 700 hp all wheel drive v-series.  That is your Tesla fighter, that could range form $60k to $120k.

[surreal1272]

Camaro is a coupe, ATS is mostly sold in Sedan trim, and Chevy to Cadillac is a big step up.    Buick Enclave or GMC Acadia Denali to Cadillac XT5 and XT7 is less of a jump.  Those could get cross shopped.  And yes I have said that it is a good thing if they sell more Cadillacs because they in theory have higher margins.  GM doesn't break out the numbers, but we can assume a luxury brand has the best margins in any company.

 

I have been saying for years to turn Cadillac loose and give them the product they need.  Cadillac should be stealing off Buick, GMC, top end Honda Pilots, Ford Explorer Titaniums, Lexus, Acura and Lincoln with ease.  All those brands have crossovers in the $40-55k space, Cadillac should be in there kicking butt.  That is a winnable fight.  For the past 15 years they have been trying to fight BMW on the sedan front and they let also rans like Lincoln actually go up in sales the past couples years.   

 

If I we running Cadillac this would be my crossover line up:

 

XT3:  D2XX platform, turbo 4 engine, similar to Lincoln MKC, Lexus NX

XT4:  Alpha platform, 2.0T, 3.0TT and 3.6 TT V6 (ATS-V engine) similar to GLC/X3

XT5: we have

XT6:  Alpha or Omega, crossover of current CTS size, 2.0T, 3.0 TT, and 4.2 TT V8 engines

XT7:  C2XX lwb, the Cadillac Enclave with 7 seats, 3.6 V6, this would be a $48-60k type vehicle against Infiniti QX60.

XT8: Omega 3 row crossover, 3.0TT V6, 4.2TT V8

 

Escalade:  add CTS-V engine, leave BOF for now as people that want a big truck like it how it is

 

6 crossovers plus Escalade, on a 6-7 year life cycle, you have 1 all new crossover per year, and one mid-cycle refresh per year.  There is probably even room for an XT2 in there.  Something GLA size or even Audi Q2 size.  That might be more for Euro or China market.

 

Kill XTS at the end of the cycle, add a convertible somewhere, anywhere.

I could have saved you a whole lot of typing with the following. Everything you have posted about Cadillacs lineup can easily be applied to Benz. You think people aren't doing the same exact thing when they go to a MB dealership?

 

You also contradict yourself to the point of making no sense. You say in one breath that it is a negative for Cadillac to be stealing sales form other GM brands and then, in another breath, say that they SHOULD steal sales from GMC and Buick. I was just shaking my head the whole while reading your outlandish post. Just makes me glad that you are not, in fact, running Cadillac. Seriously. Why in the hell would you lump in any Cadillac with a Honda Pilot or a Ford titanium trim? That just officially kills your credibility (which wasn't much to being with). That is clearly the job of GM's other brands. Buick competes with Acura and Lincoln so that Cadillac can compete with the bigger boys (and they do but they need more models which has been well discussed). 

 

 

Sorry to sound like a dick here but posts like that just hurt my head to read with all of it's absurdity. 

 

You know what? Maybe it isn't so absurd. MB is doing that with cars like the CLA competing with much lower end cars they have no business competing with because it just dilutes the brand). Guess I see why you would want Cadillac to go down the same silly path (because that tactic worked so well for them with the Cimarron and the Catera).

[smk4565]

I never said it was a negative for Cadillac to steal from other GM brands.  If I were Johan, I'd want to steal every single GMC Yukon Denali sale and get that person to buy an Escalade.   That helps GM's overall profit margin too.   Or if Customer X has $50,000 to spend on a vehicle, I wouldn't want them to buy a loaded up Enclave, I'd want them to buy a Cadillac.

 

A Honda Pilot Touring is $43,000, and there is an Elite trim for $48k.  Explorer Titanium is $50k.  A Cadillac XT5 awd with luxury package is $48k.  So once again, if Mr. or Mrs. Customer has $48k to spend on an SUV, I'd want that sale.

 

And my lineup can't be applied to Benz or BMW because they don't have that many platforms to build cars on.  Cadillac could build 4 front wheel drive platform crossovers on existing Chevy/Buick platforms, and then build 3 more rear drive platform crossovers on alpha and Omega, and still have the Escalade as an 8th crossover/SUV vehicle.  

 

With XT1, XT3, XT4 and XT5 all starting under $40k you can steal massive sales away from Lincoln, Acura, Honda, GMC, Jeep, whomever.  Then your XT6 and XT7 come in around $50k base price, ranging up to $75-80k.  Then the XT8 comes in around $80k base to compete with Mercedes GLS, BMW X7.

 

Buyers want crossovers/SUVs, the reason people spend $50k on an Explorer or Grand Cherokee is not enough luxury SUVs are on the market.   Sedan segments are shrinking across the board.  Makes sense to hit crossovers hard and leave no niche uncovered.

[surreal1272]

I never said it was a negative for Cadillac to steal from other GM brands.  If I were Johan, I'd want to steal every single GMC Yukon Denali sale and get that person to buy an Escalade.   That helps GM's overall profit margin too.   Or if Customer X has $50,000 to spend on a vehicle, I wouldn't want them to buy a loaded up Enclave, I'd want them to buy a Cadillac.

 

A Honda Pilot Touring is $43,000, and there is an Elite trim for $48k.  Explorer Titanium is $50k.  A Cadillac XT5 awd with luxury package is $48k.  So once again, if Mr. or Mrs. Customer has $48k to spend on an SUV, I'd want that sale.

 

And my lineup can't be applied to Benz or BMW because they don't have that many platforms to build cars on.  Cadillac could build 4 front wheel drive platform crossovers on existing Chevy/Buick platforms, and then build 3 more rear drive platform crossovers on alpha and Omega, and still have the Escalade as an 8th crossover/SUV vehicle.  

 

With XT1, XT3, XT4 and XT5 all starting under $40k you can steal massive sales away from Lincoln, Acura, Honda, GMC, Jeep, whomever.  Then your XT6 and XT7 come in around $50k base price, ranging up to $75-80k.  Then the XT8 comes in around $80k base to compete with Mercedes GLS, BMW X7.

 

Buyers want crossovers/SUVs, the reason people spend $50k on an Explorer or Grand Cherokee is not enough luxury SUVs are on the market.   Sedan segments are shrinking across the board.  Makes sense to hit crossovers hard and leave no niche uncovered.

You implied that it was a negative, plain as day. Everything you say about Cadillac, even when you think you are being objective, just comes off as a backhanded compliment half the time. 

 

Again, no one, I repeat, no one is cross shopping Hondas and Ford with a Cadillac. That would be like cross shopping those cars you mention with Mercedes, which I am also sure no one does (with the rarest of exceptions).

 

And yes, Cadillac could build off of those platforms. That way, you have more ammunition for their "gussied up" Chevys when you go on your next trolling spree.  

Edited April 10, 2016 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

And if GM scrubbed to your stealing sales suggestion, then their other brands would be struggling and you'd be speaking negatively of that.