Chevrolet News:What is the Future of the Chevrolet SS?

[William Maley]

With the Holden Commodore saying goodbye in 2017, it was assumed that the Chevrolet SS would follow suit. But some recent comments last week are making us rethink that.

 

During a discussion at the New York Auto Show, Al Oppenheiser, chief engineer for the Camaro and SS hinted that all was not lost for the SS.

 

“It sells what it’s supposed to. And we haven’t announced an end date to it, so we’re just … we know that there are some decisions made on the Zeta [platform], that are imminent, and right now we’re just focused on the new ’17 model, which is great. It has the LS3 with the manual and the active exhausts, and it’s a great car,” said Oppenheiser.

 

The lack of end date is very curious as we know the Commodore will be finished in 2017, leaving the SS in a tough spot.

 

Australian outlet CarAdvice asked if another sedan could serve as a replacement for the SS and Oppenheiser said maybe. But Oppenheiser was quick to point out this might not happen.

 

“I’m not answering the questions, so I’m not leaving you with any hope.”

 

But Al, you did leave some hope for those who want the SS to stick around. Whether or not anything happens, we'll be watching closely.

 

Source: CarAdvice
Pic Credit: William Maley for Cheers & Gears

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[G. David Felt]

SS Halo 4 door Sedan with V8 very well could live on as a special edition auto based on a frame used by Cadillac, Buick, etc. They very well could keep the SS going as long as it helps to reduce costs and breaks even or even makes a profit, a small one at that.

[aurora97]

Cadillac gets the ATS Coupe/Sedan

Buick gets the Avista Coupe/Sedan

Chevrolet gets the Camaro/Impala

Long live the Alpha platform.

[oldshurst442]

Well..crazy idea.

 

The Oshawa plant that used to build the Zeta Camaro...could now be used to build the Chevrolet SS? 

The Zeta platform need not go away...

 

If FCA is willing to sell a decade old LX platform...and still sell tons of them and make modest profits with it...GM could use a decade old platform too and sell some of them, and make a small profit as well...

[aurora97]

The wheelbase for the current SS is 114.8 inches.

The wheelbase for the current CTS is 114.6 inches.

The CTS-V already runs the LT4.

The new "SS" can easily run the LT1.

[hyperv6]

Well here is my take I have had for a good while. 

GM has to update the Alpha. It was done fast well but when it was done things that were not important then are now important like bring lighter and more global with RHD. 

 

GM will revamp the Alpha when doing the refresh on  the ATS and CTS when they move to the CT branding. 

 

This will open the door to the Camaro going to a RHD. This in turn will provide an Lengthen Camaro platform to be built with its own sheet metal with a Camaro suspension that will become the Impala and Impala SS. 

 

GM needed to move the Malibu up in size a bit. They did that with the present Impala Styling. 

GM was killing the Zeta in 2017. That is still planned. 

 

The present Impala needs to move on as the platform it is on is going away. 

Knowing the Zeta was going to die and the Impala was going to change they did bring the SS here in small volumes as they had said they would. They said from the start they would do 2500 or more depending on the call for the car but it was made clear that volumes would be very low. It has been. 

 

Now they named the SS a SS sport sedan. Odd for GM to call it an SS as they never named a car SS only in the past as it always was attached to the model it was based on. Well it was not an impala or Malibu so what do you call it and do you put an Impala name on it when it really is not an impala? 

 

My gut is they had planned on a move to make an 4 and 6 cylinder RWD impala once the Bu was redone. Their plan is to put an 8 in a Impala SS and sell it as a sedan that will not look like a Camaro but will drive like one. 

This would give the Malibu more space. It would help Chevy have a RWD sedan worth the extra money they would have to ask and it would still leverage out the Alpha even more. 

 

Al 

How will the SS and Cadillac be different. Well Cadillac will start to get their own engines soon. We also will see much more technology in the Cadillac too. There will be a marked difference between Chevy and Cadillac in all areas unlike so much of the recent past. 

 

I think the Buick has some surprises coming that may make some forget the Avista. They just trademarked a new name and there has been hints they have a new coupe and or convertible coming. 

 

Velectra has just been registered so we will have to see what this brings. But what ever they do it will be different than the Chevy and Cadillac and really make up that middle ground. 

 

I have met Al Oppenheiser and gotten to speak with him on new products. He is a no BS kind of guy and if he says something it is something that is being done. Now it can change later but as of now I would take what he says here to heart. Nothing is certain till it hits the show room but the odds are good we will see the new SS and more with it. 

[oldshurst442]

To the poster who gave me a thumbs down on my post...

 

Which idea did you disagree with?

 

1. The fact that I set the tone from the get go that it was a crazy idea?
2. The fact that I mention that the Camaro was built in Oshawa? (because it was)
3. The crazy notion that I questioned that a Zeta Chevy SS could be built in a Zeta Camaro Oshawa plant?
4. The crazy notion that the Zeta platform need not go away?
5. The fact that the Mopar LX platform is indeed a decade plus a year or two...because the Mopar LX platform is not exactly a direct M-B platform which is older that a decade actually?
6. The fact that FCA is indeed still selling boatloads of the RWD LX cars?
7. The fact that FCA is indeed making healthy profits from the sales of the LX cars?
8. That it may not be a bad thing for GM to do the same thing, since the Zeta platform is still a very capable platform?   Sure we all know GM told us the Zeta platform is going away, hence why I started the bloody post with...CRAZY IDEA...
9. All of the above?

 

 

At least tell me why you down voted....

 News Flash though...5 out of the 8 points I said in that post are real truths...

The other 3 are just fun CRAZY ideas...

 

OK....maybe you did not appreciate them...Id like to know why?

 

Maybe you could be less timid and you could express your thoughts as I have...

Unlike you, I probably wont down vote you, no matter how crazy your fun, off the wall remarks may be....

Unless of course you are such a tight ass that light hearted conversations like I do are not your style...because in that case...Ill probably will down vote you as I hate stick-up-the-ass people...

[hyperv6]

To the poster who gave me a thumbs down on my post...

 

Which idea did you disagree with?

 

1. The fact that I set the tone from the get go that it was a crazy idea?
2. The fact that I mention that the Camaro was built in Oshawa? (because it was)
3. The crazy notion that I questioned that a Zeta Chevy SS could be built in a Zeta Camaro Oshawa plant?
4. The crazy notion that the Zeta platform need not go away?
5. The fact that the Mopar LX platform is indeed a decade plus a year or two...because the Mopar LX platform is not exactly a direct M-B platform which is older that a decade actually?
6. The fact that FCA is indeed still selling boatloads of the RWD LX cars?
7. The fact that FCA is indeed making healthy profits from the sales of the LX cars?
8. That it may not be a bad thing for GM to do the same thing, since the Zeta platform is still a very capable platform?   Sure we all know GM told us the Zeta platform is going away, hence why I started the bloody post with...CRAZY IDEA...
9. All of the above?

 

 

At least tell me why you down voted....

 News Flash though...5 out of the 8 points I said in that post are real truths...

The other 3 are just fun CRAZY ideas...

 

OK....maybe you did not appreciate them...Id like to know why?

 

Maybe you could be less timid and you could express your thoughts as I have...

Unlike you, I probably wont down vote you, no matter how crazy your fun, off the wall remarks may be....

Unless of course you are such a tight ass that light hearted conversations like I do are not your style...because in that case...Ill probably will down vote you as I hate stick-up-the-ass people...

 

I did not mark you down but I have a good idea why they did. It was a really bad idea. 

The Zeta is old heavy and done. No need to bring it back as we have much better and efficient platforms that available right now. 

Chrysler is making the old LX as Sergio is screwing them and not investing as he should have been. They are to the point now that when they do a comparison with the Camaro and Mustang the magazines pass over their product. To get attention they had to resort to the Hellcat that has a big number but no way to use all the power other than to move mass. 

Modest profits. Well modest is how you go chapter 11 as they should be doing better than modest. I feel for the staff at Chrysler as they are being starved out when cars like the Alpha are getting the money they should be getting from the Jeep profits. 

 

The Zeta has had a long and good service for GM and it is time to move on. 

 

Note my inlaws bought a 300 at the price of a Malibu. Not much meat on those old bones at the price. It is really sad as you should be selling them for closer to $50K vs 30K. That is a real troubling sign. 

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by hyperv6

[oldshurst442]

 

To the poster who gave me a thumbs down on my post...

 

Which idea did you disagree with?

 

1. The fact that I set the tone from the get go that it was a crazy idea?
2. The fact that I mention that the Camaro was built in Oshawa? (because it was)
3. The crazy notion that I questioned that a Zeta Chevy SS could be built in a Zeta Camaro Oshawa plant?
4. The crazy notion that the Zeta platform need not go away?
5. The fact that the Mopar LX platform is indeed a decade plus a year or two...because the Mopar LX platform is not exactly a direct M-B platform which is older that a decade actually?
6. The fact that FCA is indeed still selling boatloads of the RWD LX cars?
7. The fact that FCA is indeed making healthy profits from the sales of the LX cars?
8. That it may not be a bad thing for GM to do the same thing, since the Zeta platform is still a very capable platform?   Sure we all know GM told us the Zeta platform is going away, hence why I started the bloody post with...CRAZY IDEA...
9. All of the above?

 

 

At least tell me why you down voted....

 News Flash though...5 out of the 8 points I said in that post are real truths...

The other 3 are just fun CRAZY ideas...

 

OK....maybe you did not appreciate them...Id like to know why?

 

Maybe you could be less timid and you could express your thoughts as I have...

Unlike you, I probably wont down vote you, no matter how crazy your fun, off the wall remarks may be....

Unless of course you are such a tight ass that light hearted conversations like I do are not your style...because in that case...Ill probably will down vote you as I hate stick-up-the-ass people...

 

I did not mark you down but I have a good idea why they did. It was a really bad idea. 

The Zeta is old heavy and done. No need to bring it back as we have much better and efficient platforms that available right now. 

Chrysler is making the old LX as Sergio is screwing them and not investing as he should have been. They are to the point now that when they do a comparison with the Camaro and Mustang the magazines pass over their product. To get attention they had to resort to the Hellcat that has a big number but no way to use all the power other than to move mass. 

Modest profits. Well modest is how you go chapter 11 as they should be doing better than modest. I feel for the staff at Chrysler as they are being starved out when cars like the Alpha are getting the money they should be getting from the Jeep profits. 

 

The Zeta has had a long and good service for GM and it is time to move on. 

 

Note my inlaws bought a 300 at the price of a Malibu. Not much meat on those old bones at the price. It is really sad as you should be selling them for closer to $50K vs 30K. That is a real troubling sign. 

 

 

 

Thanx for the answer Hyper.

And...because I read your posts often, I knew exactly where the LX cars and Sergio  and the Zeta platform fit in  in 2016 before I made that post.

You always keep me informed.

 

But...I did say crazy idea, bad idea or not....it was meant all in good fun.

With a touch of fantasy...my fantasy...

Why?

 

 

The Oshawa plant I think is being closed down....thousands of Canadian jobs are gonna be lost....

I did not mention this, nor did I elude to it...because its a fait accompli...

 

Now...my biggest pet peeve, is this down voting without rebuttal, because there is no discussion being made....so...

We both are having this discussion and you are finding out why I made this bad idea, yet you are NOT the one to down vote me...

 

I would have NOT lost my marbles had this person just typed what you did....but at least I would know why and he would know why...

 

Technically, its still a mystery to me...

 

(So...my post being more of a fantasy thing rather than a serious thing...does it still deserve a down vote? I mean, it wasnt a trolly remark, nor a hate remark...bad idea or not...it was not meant to be taken seriously...hence the warning in the very beginning...crazy idea)

 

I at least got your point of view....which we chearsandgear folk all know where you stand on the LX cars as you keep on STRESSING the problems with the LX cars...and now Ill agree with your take on the modest profits opinion as well....

And now you folk understand why this "bad idea fantasy" post was made....

Yet...the down voter is still at large and we are all in the dark as to why he/she would do such a thing with out a decent rebuttal.

 

You see, I cant judge to rebuttal so I could repay the favour back ....

 

I up voted you Hyper, for having the decency and the cohones to actually have a discussion...and...its not as if we havent had any love/hate discussions in the past...

You took a chance on this response not knowing my reaction back to you...

Edited March 29, 2016 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

Very interesting debate and while I have to agree with Hyper on his thinking, I do also wonder why someone would down vote without explanation or defending their down vote.

 

I personally wish the down and up vote would require you to have to post why you are voting that way. This way you cannot just play troll but have to take part in the discussion and debate / defend your position so others can better understand.

 

It is the democratic way of being transparent and saying I agree or disagree with you and this is why.

[surreal1272]

Well..crazy idea.

 

The Oshawa plant that used to build the Zeta Camaro...could now be used to build the Chevrolet SS? 

The Zeta platform need not go away...

 

If FCA is willing to sell a decade old LX platform...and still sell tons of them and make modest profits with it...GM could use a decade old platform too and sell some of them, and make a small profit as well...

 

Very interesting debate and while I have to agree with Hyper on his thinking, I do also wonder why someone would down vote without explanation or defending their down vote.

 

I personally wish the down and up vote would require you to have to post why you are voting that way. This way you cannot just play troll but have to take part in the discussion and debate / defend your position so others can better understand.

 

It is the democratic way of being transparent and saying I agree or disagree with you and this is why.

People vote down because they are children. Just do away with it altogether and get rid of the last of those children.

[ccap41]

I'll openly admit I down vote people who say super douchy $h! and there's just no debating with some people so they get a little click of "you're a douche" and I go on with my day. For the most part that's how I use it. I don't "down vote" I say "you're being a douche". When I disagree with somebody I usually just type something up on why I think one thing or another and they do the same, agreeing or disagreeing. 

[surreal1272]

I'll openly admit I down vote people who say super douchy $h! and there's just no debating with some people so they get a little click of "you're a douche" and I go on with my day. For the most part that's how I use it. I don't "down vote" I say "you're being a douche". When I disagree with somebody I usually just type something up on why I think one thing or another and they do the same, agreeing or disagreeing. 

Not referring to you. There are some who don't even post here anymore that just pop in to see what they can down vote and then they are gone. No comments, no posts, no contributions to this site whatsoever other than to troll posts of people they don't like. They use that one down vote for the day and POOF, they are gone again. That is what I am talking about. 

[ccap41]

 

I'll openly admit I down vote people who say super douchy $h! and there's just no debating with some people so they get a little click of "you're a douche" and I go on with my day. For the most part that's how I use it. I don't "down vote" I say "you're being a douche". When I disagree with somebody I usually just type something up on why I think one thing or another and they do the same, agreeing or disagreeing. 

Not referring to you. There are some who don't even post here anymore that just pop in to see what they can down vote and then they are gone. No comments, no posts, no contributions to this site whatsoever other than to troll posts of people they don't like. They use that one down vote for the day and POOF, they are gone again. That is what I am talking about. 

 

Seriously..? See that would grab one of my "you're a douche" votes. lol 

 

I don't understand how you could have that much anger/hatred towards somebody via the internet ALONE. Never met, Never heard each other's voices, don't even know what they look like, yet there is that much hatred. Blows my mind. 

[surreal1272]

 

 

I'll openly admit I down vote people who say super douchy $h! and there's just no debating with some people so they get a little click of "you're a douche" and I go on with my day. For the most part that's how I use it. I don't "down vote" I say "you're being a douche". When I disagree with somebody I usually just type something up on why I think one thing or another and they do the same, agreeing or disagreeing. 

Not referring to you. There are some who don't even post here anymore that just pop in to see what they can down vote and then they are gone. No comments, no posts, no contributions to this site whatsoever other than to troll posts of people they don't like. They use that one down vote for the day and POOF, they are gone again. That is what I am talking about. 

 

Seriously..? See that would grab one of my "you're a douche" votes. lol 

 

I don't understand how you could have that much anger/hatred towards somebody via the internet ALONE. Never met, Never heard each other's voices, don't even know what they look like, yet there is that much hatred. Blows my mind. 

 

Good lord man. Stop overdramatizing what I am talking about. It's a simple observation of what the trolls around here were doing. You and I both know that is what has been going on in some of these cases. I am not being a douche at all and if you think that is "you're being a douche" vote then the problem is with you and your perceptions. In this case, your perception about me is wrong here. Again, there is no anger, no hatred. It is an observation that can actually be backed up with facts (this has been discussed before). I'm just tired of the children. If you confusing that with hatred or anger, then I don't know what else to tell you. Don't vote all you want if you continue to feel something about me that isn't there. That's all I'm going to say about it because it's taking away from the topic. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by surreal1272

[hyperv6]

 

 

To the poster who gave me a thumbs down on my post...

 

Which idea did you disagree with?

 

1. The fact that I set the tone from the get go that it was a crazy idea?
2. The fact that I mention that the Camaro was built in Oshawa? (because it was)
3. The crazy notion that I questioned that a Zeta Chevy SS could be built in a Zeta Camaro Oshawa plant?
4. The crazy notion that the Zeta platform need not go away?
5. The fact that the Mopar LX platform is indeed a decade plus a year or two...because the Mopar LX platform is not exactly a direct M-B platform which is older that a decade actually?
6. The fact that FCA is indeed still selling boatloads of the RWD LX cars?
7. The fact that FCA is indeed making healthy profits from the sales of the LX cars?
8. That it may not be a bad thing for GM to do the same thing, since the Zeta platform is still a very capable platform?   Sure we all know GM told us the Zeta platform is going away, hence why I started the bloody post with...CRAZY IDEA...
9. All of the above?

 

 

At least tell me why you down voted....

 News Flash though...5 out of the 8 points I said in that post are real truths...

The other 3 are just fun CRAZY ideas...

 

OK....maybe you did not appreciate them...Id like to know why?

 

Maybe you could be less timid and you could express your thoughts as I have...

Unlike you, I probably wont down vote you, no matter how crazy your fun, off the wall remarks may be....

Unless of course you are such a tight ass that light hearted conversations like I do are not your style...because in that case...Ill probably will down vote you as I hate stick-up-the-ass people...

 

I did not mark you down but I have a good idea why they did. It was a really bad idea. 

The Zeta is old heavy and done. No need to bring it back as we have much better and efficient platforms that available right now. 

Chrysler is making the old LX as Sergio is screwing them and not investing as he should have been. They are to the point now that when they do a comparison with the Camaro and Mustang the magazines pass over their product. To get attention they had to resort to the Hellcat that has a big number but no way to use all the power other than to move mass. 

Modest profits. Well modest is how you go chapter 11 as they should be doing better than modest. I feel for the staff at Chrysler as they are being starved out when cars like the Alpha are getting the money they should be getting from the Jeep profits. 

 

The Zeta has had a long and good service for GM and it is time to move on. 

 

Note my inlaws bought a 300 at the price of a Malibu. Not much meat on those old bones at the price. It is really sad as you should be selling them for closer to $50K vs 30K. That is a real troubling sign. 

 

 

 

Thanx for the answer Hyper.

And...because I read your posts often, I knew exactly where the LX cars and Sergio  and the Zeta platform fit in  in 2016 before I made that post.

You always keep me informed.

 

But...I did say crazy idea, bad idea or not....it was meant all in good fun.

With a touch of fantasy...my fantasy...

Why?

 

 

The Oshawa plant I think is being closed down....thousands of Canadian jobs are gonna be lost....

I did not mention this, nor did I elude to it...because its a fait accompli...

 

Now...my biggest pet peeve, is this down voting without rebuttal, because there is no discussion being made....so...

We both are having this discussion and you are finding out why I made this bad idea, yet you are NOT the one to down vote me...

 

I would have NOT lost my marbles had this person just typed what you did....but at least I would know why and he would know why...

 

Technically, its still a mystery to me...

 

(So...my post being more of a fantasy thing rather than a serious thing...does it still deserve a down vote? I mean, it wasnt a trolly remark, nor a hate remark...bad idea or not...it was not meant to be taken seriously...hence the warning in the very beginning...crazy idea)

 

I at least got your point of view....which we chearsandgear folk all know where you stand on the LX cars as you keep on STRESSING the problems with the LX cars...and now Ill agree with your take on the modest profits opinion as well....

And now you folk understand why this "bad idea fantasy" post was made....

Yet...the down voter is still at large and we are all in the dark as to why he/she would do such a thing with out a decent rebuttal.

 

You see, I cant judge to rebuttal so I could repay the favour back ....

 

I up voted you Hyper, for having the decency and the cohones to actually have a discussion...and...its not as if we havent had any love/hate discussions in the past...

You took a chance on this response not knowing my reaction back to you...

 

 

 

You can say crazy but too many people take things seriously on the web and stuff like this just opens so many even more craxy thing. Lets face it there are still some that can not accept or understand Pontiac is dead and not coming back anytime soon. 

There is a future at Oshawa but it is in the hands of the CAW. If they want to make competitive bids to build cars there vs the other plants they will win the work. The plants getting work now are ones who make competitive contracts and they are rewarded. GM has more plants than needed and some UAW unions get it finally and are learning that to make their future they have to work with GM not dictate what they have to have. 

 

It takes no cohones to to reply just an honest opinion and answers. I am not young enough to care about votes or followers. Things like votes can only hurt you if you really care. I don't. The fact is be honest with your thought and measured with what you think. Sometimes you are right sometimes you are wrong but believe in what you believe. 

 

This stuff about voting up down or logging followers on Face book are all useless games. They only hold meaning if you allocate meaning to them. 

 

The down voter only hold power if you grant it. Suck it up and just don't give a damn and you will be fine. You get to a point in life you learn all that popularity and focus we craved we were young was just wasted time. 

Chrysler is in bad shape right now and just in the last few months Sergio has had to change gears. His plans to build Alfa and Maserati have failed miserably. FCA needs a lot of volume and Chrysler Dodge is the prime unit to do it just as Jeep has shown. The real question now is who will they partner with and is there still enough time to get Chrysler into the game as they are about 5 years behind where they should be now. 

Chrysler is stuck with old LX cars that are not bringing in money as they once did and the 200 and Dart failed miserably. While better than what they had they still lagged behind the market with the poor Fiat corp underpinnings. 

 

Now we need to hope they let Chrysler do their own cars or do them with a good partner like Mazda. Then let them do their own RWD and stop thinking Alfa. They also need to find a way to keep the V8 even in low numbers as word has been they were going to kill the V8. I am ok with a turbo v6 but they still need to keep an 8 for some models. 

 

Finally they need the money to deal with the quality issues they have had. New product and better investing into these models will fix this but will they learn?

 

While I am not a Chrysler fan I hope they can pull this out as it pained me to see the loss of Plymouth and the down grade of Chrysler from what it was and could be. 

 

I pray Mazda comes in and fixes their smaller cars. I really thing if Mazda cam in and ran the show it would fix a lot of things for both brands as Mazda need volume to make the profits they need. Sales for them are good but not enough to pay development cost that are just so high anymore. 

 

But in the end back to Zeta. It is time to put it to rest. It has done it's job and then some and really can not be improved much more than they already have. You have two world class platforms now that are more flexible than the Zeta could have ever been now is the time to make use of them in as many ways possible. 

[oldshurst442]

It takes no cohones to to reply just an honest opinion and answers. I am not young enough to care about votes or followers. Things like votes can only hurt you if you really care. I don't. The fact is be honest with your thought and measured with what you think. Sometimes you are right sometimes you are wrong but believe in what you believe.

 

Yeah...I like this way of thinking.

 

This stuff about voting up down or logging followers on Face book are all useless games. They only hold meaning if you allocate meaning to them.

 

 

I must admit, I have to learn this lesson.

 

Its not the down vote that bothers me, its the lack of discussion that goes with it...but yeah, I must learn to not give a shyte...and just continue to have fun, reciprocate the fun, and learn...like the rest of your post...

 

The down voter only hold power if you grant it. Suck it up and just don't give a damn and you will be fine. You get to a point in life you learn all that popularity and focus we craved we were young was just wasted time.

 

 

Yup...Im 43...like I said, it aint about the popularity thing of it...but like you said...I SHOULD learn to SUCK IT UP!!!!

Ill get there eventually.

 

The rest of your post is spot on......

 

And yeah, about Oshawa...Ill quote it down below since THIS is how unions should be doing business in 2016 with their partnered corporations:

There is a future at Oshawa but it is in the hands of the CAW. If they want to make competitive bids to build cars there vs the other plants they will win the work. The plants getting work now are ones who make competitive contracts and they are rewarded. GM has more plants than needed and some UAW unions get it finally and are learning that to make their future they have to work with GM not dictate what they have to have.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanx again Hyper....

Until we cross heads again...

[ccap41]

I'll openly admit I down vote people who say super douchy $h! and there's just no debating with some people so they get a little click of "you're a douche" and I go on with my day. For the most part that's how I use it. I don't "down vote" I say "you're being a douche". When I disagree with somebody I usually just type something up on why I think one thing or another and they do the same, agreeing or disagreeing.

Not referring to you. There are some who don't even post here anymore that just pop in to see what they can down vote and then they are gone. No comments, no posts, no contributions to this site whatsoever other than to troll posts of people they don't like. They use that one down vote for the day and POOF, they are gone again. That is what I am talking about.

Seriously..? See that would grab one of my "you're a douche" votes. lol 

 

I don't understand how you could have that much anger/hatred towards somebody via the internet ALONE. Never met, Never heard each other's voices, don't even know what they look like, yet there is that much hatred. Blows my mind.

Good lord man. Stop overdramatizing what I am talking about. It's a simple observation of what the trolls around here were doing. You and I both know that is what has been going on in some of these cases. I am not being a douche at all and if you think that is "you're being a douche" vote then the problem is with you and your perceptions. In this case, your perception about me is wrong here. Again, there is no anger, no hatred. It is an observation that can actually be backed up with facts (this has been discussed before). I'm just tired of the children. If you confusing that with hatred or anger, then I don't know what else to tell you. Don't vote all you want if you continue to feel something about me that isn't there. That's all I'm going to say about it because it's taking away from the topic.

Hey man, I sent you a pm. I really didn't clarify what I meant by that. Sorry about that.

[Robert Hall]

The SS's relative--the Caprice--has had pretty low volume, I believe?   I wonder if GM is planning a police package for the Impala, as Ford did w/ the Taurus.

[surreal1272]

I'll openly admit I down vote people who say super douchy $h! and there's just no debating with some people so they get a little click of "you're a douche" and I go on with my day. For the most part that's how I use it. I don't "down vote" I say "you're being a douche". When I disagree with somebody I usually just type something up on why I think one thing or another and they do the same, agreeing or disagreeing.

Not referring to you. There are some who don't even post here anymore that just pop in to see what they can down vote and then they are gone. No comments, no posts, no contributions to this site whatsoever other than to troll posts of people they don't like. They use that one down vote for the day and POOF, they are gone again. That is what I am talking about.

Seriously..? See that would grab one of my "you're a douche" votes. lol

I don't understand how you could have that much anger/hatred towards somebody via the internet ALONE. Never met, Never heard each other's voices, don't even know what they look like, yet there is that much hatred. Blows my mind.

Good lord man. Stop overdramatizing what I am talking about. It's a simple observation of what the trolls around here were doing. You and I both know that is what has been going on in some of these cases. I am not being a douche at all and if you think that is "you're being a douche" vote then the problem is with you and your perceptions. In this case, your perception about me is wrong here. Again, there is no anger, no hatred. It is an observation that can actually be backed up with facts (this has been discussed before). I'm just tired of the children. If you confusing that with hatred or anger, then I don't know what else to tell you. Don't vote all you want if you continue to feel something about me that isn't there. That's all I'm going to say about it because it's taking away from the topic.

Hey man, I sent you a pm. I really didn't clarify what I meant by that. Sorry about that.

It's all good in the hood.

Edited March 30, 2016 by surreal1272

[oldshurst442]

Very interesting debate and while I have to agree with Hyper on his thinking, I do also wonder why someone would down vote without explanation or defending their down vote.

 

I personally wish the down and up vote would require you to have to post why you are voting that way. This way you cannot just play troll but have to take part in the discussion and debate / defend your position so others can better understand.

 

It is the democratic way of being transparent and saying I agree or disagree with you and this is why.

 

 

Just quoting MR. DFELT...because he said it eloquently.

 

YA'LL can downvote away...like Hyper said...I should let it slide my back...and I will...

 

Yet...its YOU folk that down vote that are bothered and care the most for the reputation....

 

Because....ALL my statements are NOT trolly, nor full of hate...

 

TRUTH hits you folk...but hide between a computer screen and a voting system...

 

STATE the reasons why!!!!

 

I have....And I CONTINUE to VOICE my displeasure....

WHAT? You gonna down vote this too???

 

Go ahead....downvote...it just sees like cowardice to me though....

 

VOICE your displeasure.....COME ON!!!!  I DARE YOU!!!!

 

NAH....its easy to behave like children....wah wah wah...I dont like what he said....Ill down vote him...wah wah wah...

 

PATHETIC!!!!

[regfootball]

no point to a future RWD Impala either.  It does quite well as a fwd appliance.  And right now, there is plenty of size diff between it and the new Malibu.  Even if the bu cuts into the Impala sales, the Imp will still sell in nice numbers.  Even if the SS was offered for less money and with a v6, it would not sell near what the badge sells now still.  

 

With electrics honing in and the advent of self driving cars etc, there is not a need for Chevy to try to make a RWD large sedan.    I might even argue its more Buick's territory now, except that Chevy has wider distribution.

 

No need for an Avista either.  Coupes apart from Camaro anymore are a hard sell.

 

Cutting the impala from a 80-100k a year seller down to a 30k a year seller would not return those units back to Malibu sales.  Just like the last style Impala, I see GM leaving this one on the market in some form for 5-7 years min.

 

The ONLY wildcard here is GM producing a large RWD chevy because global demand like in AU might make a case for it.  But that is even stretching it.  They would HAVE to add AWD to the option sheet.

Edited March 30, 2016 by regfootball

[hyperv6]

no point to a future RWD Impala either.  It does quite well as a fwd appliance.  And right now, there is plenty of size diff between it and the new Malibu.  Even if the bu cuts into the Impala sales, the Imp will still sell in nice numbers.  Even if the SS was offered for less money and with a v6, it would not sell near what the badge sells now still.  

 

With electrics honing in and the advent of self driving cars etc, there is not a need for Chevy to try to make a RWD large sedan.    I might even argue its more Buick's territory now, except that Chevy has wider distribution.

 

No need for an Avista either.  Coupes apart from Camaro anymore are a hard sell.

 

Cutting the impala from a 80-100k a year seller down to a 30k a year seller would not return those units back to Malibu sales.  Just like the last style Impala, I see GM leaving this one on the market in some form for 5-7 years min.

 

The ONLY wildcard here is GM producing a large RWD chevy because global demand like in AU might make a case for it.  But that is even stretching it.  They would HAVE to add AWD to the option sheet.

 

 

Your last statement is why it most likely will be considered or done. 

 

Here is the deal as the larger sedans sales are not big now like 300K of the past. The key will be to make it more profitable and increase volumes globally several ways. 

 

As it is now I expect the Bu to take many Impala sales since it is larger and cheaper looking similar to what the Imp is now. 

 

CUV and SUV sales will help limit growth in America. 

 

Holden needs a new larger sedan. Vauxhall needs a new sedan. Opel could use a larger sedan. South Africa needs a Holden replacement. The Middle East needs a RWD replacement for the Chevy. Even places in South America can use a RWD car. Korea could use a partner to the Camaro. China? As it is now the Impala would be lost in the crowd and nor coveted much as it has so little to offer in the well saturated FWD segments globally. 

 

Add in Service fleet sales as taxi and police use could be a real volume king here as there is no replacement for the Holden now. GM still needs a SUV like Ford sells for police work that is efficient and affordable. The Tahoe price scares off many. 

AWD would be easy to add but pricing in America would be critical. You can not put the best system on and over price the car either. 

 

The leveraging out of the Alpha would increase profits and make it even more global. The key to the future with using smaller volumes in many markets to make your  profits. 

 

As for Avista there is a place for it but to do a coupe you have to use care. It much be very different from the Camaro for one. It also must wait till it too can be a Holden and Opel. Finally Cadillac has to continue their move up to make space for this car.  Buick would be better suited to making it into a Coupe styled sedan as this is one of the fastest growing car segments out there in a stagnate car segment. 

 

There is a place yet for larger sedans as self driving cars are not going to take over soon. At times I still think it is over played much yet. Once some appear they will find the weakness in the system will still be the humans. I could see games being played by drivers and road rage making the self driving cars do things you really don't want done. Let alone failed sensors and other issues. Even air planes may have auto pilots but there is still a human there to take control at any second. Same for space ships. The Shuttles were auto land till they found out that they forgot about a tail wind and almost belly landed the craft because the gear was set to come down at a specific air speed. From then on the pilots went back to doing it as NASA found it was the only safe way. 

 

Also right now the Lacrosse is planted right where the Impala would be. Do we really need two of them? Is there any place in the world that would want the Lacrosse other than China? I see little globalness to that one. 

 

Holden will already get their own version of the Regal that is based on the Malibu platform. There will be no need for another FWD there. 

 

You have to find a way to make a Chevy that is worth 33K-49K and different and the only real way is to make it RWD/AWD. 

[smk4565]

The SS is dead next year in my opinion.  The Caprice and SS were ways to extract some money out of the Zeta platform after Pontiac died a sudden death.   They only sell a couple hundred SS sedans each month for a company that sells 200,000 cars we are talking .1% of sales.  They can't be bothered to have such a slow seller.  It is like Mini with the Roadster that sells 39 cars a month, that is bigger % of Mini sales than the SS is of Chevy sales.

 

CAFE will also kill the V8 Chevy sedan idea, they are putting turbo 4s in full size Cadillacs, in the 2020s I think you'll see a turbo 4 in a full size pick up.  And GM has an answer for people that want RWD and high perofmance sedan, you buy a Cadillac.  This is why the Nissan Altima or Maxima isn't rear drive with a 400 hp V8, they make you buy an Infiniti.

 

As far as police car use, the Impala could serve as a police car easily.  The W-boby Impala was a police car, so FWD is fine, and prefered in some snow belt states.  Also a 300 hp V6  Impala is 60 hp more than a Crown Vic ever had, and the Impala weighs less than that beast.

 

So all those factors would lead me to believe, no RWD Chevy sedan.

[hyperv6]

The SS is dead next year in my opinion.  The Caprice and SS were ways to extract some money out of the Zeta platform after Pontiac died a sudden death.   They only sell a couple hundred SS sedans each month for a company that sells 200,000 cars we are talking .1% of sales.  They can't be bothered to have such a slow seller.  It is like Mini with the Roadster that sells 39 cars a month, that is bigger % of Mini sales than the SS is of Chevy sales.

 

CAFE will also kill the V8 Chevy sedan idea, they are putting turbo 4s in full size Cadillacs, in the 2020s I think you'll see a turbo 4 in a full size pick up.  And GM has an answer for people that want RWD and high perofmance sedan, you buy a Cadillac.  This is why the Nissan Altima or Maxima isn't rear drive with a 400 hp V8, they make you buy an Infiniti.

 

As far as police car use, the Impala could serve as a police car easily.  The W-boby Impala was a police car, so FWD is fine, and prefered in some snow belt states.  Also a 300 hp V6  Impala is 60 hp more than a Crown Vic ever had, and the Impala weighs less than that beast.

 

So all those factors would lead me to believe, no RWD Chevy sedan.

Hence you are missing the big picture.

There is a market globally for a RWD sedan that is not a Cadillac. Now each market the numbers are lower than in past history. But with all the collective global markets there is a good profit to be made. The V8 would only be in the SS and would be a small number compared tot he V6 and Turbo 4 models offered in a regular non SS model

Given a choice the police prefer the RWD cars. The Fords only sell because generally they are the lowest bidder.

Most departments are moving to Explorers with AWD some with TT V6 that are no more efficient than the V8 cars.

To really get this project is to understand the global market and where all the Zeta has been sold and where sales could be improved. While Larger RWD is not the top dog segment in volume there is still money to be collected with the volume of a global market.

It is a deal where you work smarter not harder.

[smk4565]

They could make an AWD Impala police car, that is easy.   They could put a diesel in it that would have higher durability and lower operating cost if they wanted. 

 

As far as global rear wheel drive, that is what Cadillac is for.  They aren't selling an Opel rear drive sedan, nor a rear drive Buick sedan in China.  So we are talking about a small number of cars in Australia.  I am pro-rear wheel drive, but making a rear drive V8 Chevy performance sedan makes no sense. 

 

I have actually said before I think the Buick Regal should be rear drive to be different, with a 200 hp 4-cylinder and 270 hp turbo 4 option.  There is no mid-size rwd car that is like $30k.

[smk4565]

There is a market for Minivans that is 100 times larger than the V8 rear drive sedan market, yet I don't see GM in the minivan market.  They can't worry about 200 Chevy SS a month when they need to sell 250,000 cars a month to utilize capacity and cover costs.

[Drew Dowdell]

Dropping the Caprice/SS means abandoning (again) the Police market.  They aren't doing that well trying to move Tahoe PPVs.

 

Police sales are profitable. SS sales are cheap gravy (it costs a badge and they go on the same boat with the Caprices)

 

Epsilon Impala wouldn't cut it as a police vehicle and would get eaten by the AWD Ecoboost Taurus.

 

I feel that GM has some plans in this segment and that either Alpha or Omega is involved. 

[Drew Dowdell]

There is a market for Minivans that is 100 times larger than the V8 rear drive sedan market, yet I don't see GM in the minivan market.  They can't worry about 200 Chevy SS a month when they need to sell 250,000 cars a month to utilize capacity and cover costs.

 

Until recently, mini-vans have been low-margin sales due to needing to sell at discount prices compared to relatively similar crossovers.  If you were GM and had the choice between selling a Traverse at $30k base or a $25k base Venture that would be virtually technically identical... which would you choose?

 

only with the Pacifica and the Japanese mini-vans have manufacturers managed to move minivans up in price equal to the crossovers. 

[hyperv6]

There is a market for Minivans that is 100 times larger than the V8 rear drive sedan market, yet I don't see GM in the minivan market.  They can't worry about 200 Chevy SS a month when they need to sell 250,000 cars a month to utilize capacity and cover costs.

 

The Mini Van segment is a dying segment. There is a handful of faithful buying but the CUV has pretty much killed any growth and left the segment shrinking. It is well documented. Chrysler is one of the few who could do much here but their new model will struggle to come anywhere close to what they did before. 

The Asians dabbled but they never set came as close to doing as well as Chrysler and their sales today are close to not worth making them. To them they are no longer a priority. 

[hyperv6]

They could make an AWD Impala police car, that is easy.   They could put a diesel in it that would have higher durability and lower operating cost if they wanted. 

 

As far as global rear wheel drive, that is what Cadillac is for.  They aren't selling an Opel rear drive sedan, nor a rear drive Buick sedan in China.  So we are talking about a small number of cars in Australia.  I am pro-rear wheel drive, but making a rear drive V8 Chevy performance sedan makes no sense. 

 

I have actually said before I think the Buick Regal should be rear drive to be different, with a 200 hp 4-cylinder and 270 hp turbo 4 option.  There is no mid-size rwd car that is like $30k.

 

Yes you could add AWD to the Impala but it would add to the already higher cost and not really add durability and if anything add to repair cost. 

What you miss is this is not just a RWD performance sedan but also a 4 and V6 version that is different from the BU and would sell in great numbers globally. Take the blinders off and really look where all Holden sold globally and how a new and more advance platform would improve on those sales. 

I deal with people buying parts for these cars and I see where all they live the Zeta was much more than just down under and a couple thousand here. 

 

As for the Regal it is FWD/AWD as we know what is coming. An added Avista styled coupe styled sedan would fit nice just over the Regal. 

As for Cadillac they will see more refinement and more technology that will move them away from this segment even more. 

 

As for $30K for RWD sedan well that boat has sailed. You are not going to get much car for that price anymore. A Chevy with a Turbo 4 with base package may be about it. 

[regfootball]

hyper's posts are optimistic, it's like saying if i get elected i will erase the deficit, cure cancer, and end world hunger.  Look at AU, at one time the commodore was number 1 in AU but tastes are changing there as well.  I thought last i read, the Camry was the biggest seller in AU.  I think all that is happening is the buyers in AU who used to love big RWD cars like in the USA are getting beat down into midsize FWD and crossovers like we were here.  I think its overstated the need for a large RWD market there anymore.  To sell as a volume product, that is.

 

In the US the current Impala still does bang-up as a large comfy front driver, its what the masses want and expect, and the Malibu isn't going to siphon off Impala customers as much as they will siphon off other midsize appliance buyers.  The Malibu will cannabilize hardly any of the Impala base if the Impala goes away.  There's not enough RWD large car fans out there to build the car as an Impala.  Chevy dealers will want any Impala in their showroom to sell in volumes that RWD can't serve.  Impala as to remain as a FWD if it remains at all.  SS sales are proof how few people care.  

 

And the points smk made, right....that's what Cadillac is for now.  In fact, Cadillac is sort of the new Pontiac they just make you pay more for it.  Exactly right.  If you want a RWD car, get the Infiniti.  get the lexus.  

 

There are those that want RWD for a performance car, and there are adequate choices in the market for that.  Once you subtract out those buying RWD only for performance, there is hardly any RWD market left over.  You don't get anyone buying RWD cars for the 'ride quality" anymore, because all the FWD and AWD cars have just as good of ride and handling.  The tiny volumes of RWD cars meant for luxury can be satisfied by luxury marques.  Chryslers 300 sells still because of deep discounts.  

 

Minivan market is still 1/2 million a year, that's no chump change.  GM did a horrible job of building vans, they were all junk, but they covered their ass for that when they conceived the lambdas (and now they want to throw away that market segment too by downsizing the acadia).  Minivan segment is 25x the sports coupe segment like a useless Avista.

 

IMO the volume you'd get out of a large RWD sedan, it should be the dead Buick Avenir.  Build an Avenir before an Avista.  I see no current chevy police sales around here.  Literally NONE.  All the cop business around here is Ford Explorers now.  A few chargers and some taurus.  But the explorer is king for police vehicles here.  Chevy's current police sales are really a drop in the bucket.  And they are just fleet anyways.

 

Chevy's Impala should still be FWD, similar to why a Maxima is not RWD, Avalon etc.  Leave that to the higher up brands.

Edited March 30, 2016 by regfootball

[regfootball]

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/australias-top-selling-new-cars-of-2015-37643

 

wow, AU sales are a drop in the bucket.  Commodore sold 27k?  No wonder they shut it down.  That's peanuts.  Canada's market is probably bigger.

 

More than 1/2 of those commodore buyers won't care in 5 years if the next car they get is FWD or RWD as long as its the same size etc.

 

A fwd impala could easily get rid of the need for a commodore there.

[hyperv6]

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/australias-top-selling-new-cars-of-2015-37643

 

wow, AU sales are a drop in the bucket.  Commodore sold 27k?  No wonder they shut it down.  That's peanuts.  Canada's market is probably bigger.

 

More than 1/2 of those commodore buyers won't care in 5 years if the next car they get is FWD or RWD as long as its the same size etc.

 

A fwd impala could easily get rid of the need for a commodore there.

 

This is what you and he are missing and it is not optimistic. 

You sell small numbers in many different markets and it adds up to a level that is sustainable and profitable. 

The Zeta is dying in Australia because one it is too damn old and two the folks there are not happy with GM killing their RWD car. We know how chippy they get here and it is much worse there. 

 

The price this car would make would make it easily profitable and it would not really challenge any other GM car outside the Camaro.

 

100K units globally with Police and fleet sales included this car is do able. I know many who own a Impala now would have little issue moving to it. One of their chief complaints is FWD. Those who want FWD have the Bu to move to.

Being based on the Alpha with many of the Camaro bits would hold the cost down much and also would help prove to make the Camaro even more profitable on the shared suspension parts and other components.

 

Make an Opel A7 competitor with AWD, share it with Vauxhall and rebrand it a Holden. A Buick also would be do able but styling and features would be changed to not put it in contention with the Impala.

 

Chrysler has done well with the LX even as old and heavy as they are in just one real market. GM would spread it out.

 

You do understand how many Chevy versions of the Zeta were sold in South Africa and the Middle East too? Add it to the Korean line with the Camaro and you may even be able to sell them in China too. The youth market is being targeted. They could be sold the car just as the 57 Chevy was marketed like the Affordable Cadillac to those who could not afford the Cadillac.

 

Your only other choice is another Impala that gets lost in the field of other FWD large FWD sedans that are stagnate right now only to cannibalize some sales from the BU and Lacrosse.  Or you could kill the car as is it really worth the effort to make an Impala FWD for such a small market here? 

 

Is there even any other global market that would be interested in a FWD Impala? Probably not. Their numbers have been on a decline even with the  new and better car to 116K units last year from 170K - 156K and 140K in the three previous years. The only other market Canada sold  2938 units last year. Not much help there. 

 

Lets face it what would be easier to sell an a FWD Chevy for 40K or a Chevy RWD on a Alpha platform for 40K. What one would have more global appeal? I think you know the answer for that. 

[regfootball]

honestly the only people that won't let the large RWD market die are the older set, who grew up on the stuff, and don't have much time left.  Really, its like 2016.  Most of the general world market won't give two squats if the commodore or caprice or whatever goes away.  On commodity cars, the drive wheels are not an issue.  Chevy is a commodity brand.

 

If there is a new global RWD impala sized car, i can guarantee, you go to chevy dealer owners in the US and they will rather see the fwd Impala like currently offered because they know they can sell it.  meanwhile you have SS chevy's two model years old still sitting on lots and the car itself sells a pittance.  Most dealers will say, great i might make a few thousand on each of those 5 chevy SS i sell this year, but it does nothing for my unit volume.  No point to a performance Chevy halo sedan anymore when Cadillac has taken that role on in GM.  All Chevy needs to do is keep the Camaro fresh and that's all the performance will allow CAFE for these days.

 

It's time for manufacturers to move on.  RWD is some sort of rite of passage in the luxury arena and that is why it needs to stay there.  We already know what the market is for the performance side of RWD sedans at Chevy anymore.  If anything, to make something like an SS more salable here, it needs AWD so people can use the car year round in snow states.

 

Impala vs Malibu is like Camry and Avalon in the states.  Just stretch and pull, there is always someone wanting a more tarted up and larger version of the peasant class fwd midsize.  It's still going to capture more market share overall.

 

Chrysler has only kept the LX going because they had no other recourse, Tony starved the whole brand, there was no way to put out a new 300, or charger substitute..  

 

Police are taking to the unibody AWD vehicles like the Ford Explorer and Taurus.  The need for a police car to be a rwd biased chassis are coming to an end.

 

Just read an article on C/D i believe.  Kia K900.  Sold 2500 units in the US last year.  And the car itself drives like crap.  No market is there to improve the car to bring sales up.  Why they bothered, no one knows.

Edited March 31, 2016 by regfootball

[smk4565]

First off, Chrysler went bankrupt with the LX cars, the only reason that company is still here is Jeep and Ram pickups.  And they have no money to spend on new products, so they just leave the LX cars on the market with some new headlights and interior trim pieces to try to keep them selling.

 

As far as the Impala as a police car, and not being durable enough, etc.  Why is a Zeta car more durable are more reliable than an Impala?  And Ford sells plenty of Taurus police cars that are FWD, they even sell a turbo 4 engine in them.   Nothing is stopping GM from putting all wheel drive on the Impala, I have said before all wheel drive should be offered on Malibu and Impala.  The #1 feature consumers want on a car is all wheel drive, that is why all these crossovers sell.

 

Related to police cars, why do you think there is a Fusion sport with awd and a 325 hp V6?  When the Taurus dies I would bet $100 to a donut that there is a Fusion police package put on sale.

 

If Chevy needs police market sales, you see the Explorer selling, when Chevy gets the Trailblazer or whatever fills the gap between Equinox and Traverse, that is something that could be marketed to police departments.  Chevy should have a 5 crossover line up, surely one of them could be a police vehicle.  

 

Large sedans are dead, GM putting money into them would be a mistake, especially when Cadillac needs 3 more crossovers, Chevy needs 2 more in addition to redesigns of the 3 they have, plus Enclave redo, GM needs about 10 new crossovers in the next 3 years.  That is the market now sadly.

I up voted Reg twice because I agree with his points.

[daves87rs]

The SS's relative--the Caprice--has had pretty low volume, I believe?   I wonder if GM is planning a police package for the Impala, as Ford did w/ the Taurus.

 

 

Was wondering that too!

[hyperv6]

First off, Chrysler went bankrupt with the LX cars, the only reason that company is still here is Jeep and Ram pickups.  And they have no money to spend on new products, so they just leave the LX cars on the market with some new headlights and interior trim pieces to try to keep them selling.

 

As far as the Impala as a police car, and not being durable enough, etc.  Why is a Zeta car more durable are more reliable than an Impala?  And Ford sells plenty of Taurus police cars that are FWD, they even sell a turbo 4 engine in them.   Nothing is stopping GM from putting all wheel drive on the Impala, I have said before all wheel drive should be offered on Malibu and Impala.  The #1 feature consumers want on a car is all wheel drive, that is why all these crossovers sell.

 

Related to police cars, why do you think there is a Fusion sport with awd and a 325 hp V6?  When the Taurus dies I would bet $100 to a donut that there is a Fusion police package put on sale.

 

If Chevy needs police market sales, you see the Explorer selling, when Chevy gets the Trailblazer or whatever fills the gap between Equinox and Traverse, that is something that could be marketed to police departments.  Chevy should have a 5 crossover line up, surely one of them could be a police vehicle.  

 

Large sedans are dead, GM putting money into them would be a mistake, especially when Cadillac needs 3 more crossovers, Chevy needs 2 more in addition to redesigns of the 3 they have, plus Enclave redo, GM needs about 10 new crossovers in the next 3 years.  That is the market now sadly.

I up voted Reg twice because I agree with his points.

 

 

First off Chrsyler went bankrupt due to the lack of a line of mid and smaller FWD cars. The LX is the only real income they had in this era from the car sector. They killed the Omni and then they built mid sized cars not even rental companies wanted.

 

As I have seen and heard from two departments the new cars are not favored much but cheap. For one the Fords lack interior room and two they are not cheap to repair. It is common to lose trans axles and axles shafts often and they are not an issue in most RWD applications.

 

In fact one local city here has rebuilt their RWD cars on several occasions as they found them more durable than replacements with FWD. Many agencies have opted for the Chrysler just for the size the RWD.

 

Many of the Fords are being replaced with the Explorer but they are not cheap. In fact I have one in the drive next to me now and he loves it mostly for the extra room and ground clearance the Taurus did not have. The Durability of the Taurus was disappointing for him and the Explorer is TBD.  . 

 

Even my local department is hanging onto the Crown Vic models as long as they can as they are not fans of the new Fords. 

The Impalas here did not work out long term and are now gone and only reside in the state park cars that now are being replaced with larger SUV models. The Impala  could not tow their boats. 

As for AWD not sure how that will go. talk about small market. Even the Fusion has trouble breaking 15% of sales with the option. 

 

Departments like to take cars several hundred thousand miles and the new cars just do not do it as well with the tough beatings they give. 

The Caprice was popular but too expensive of not permitted by some agency's  because it was an import. 

 

What GM really needs is a SUV that is smaller and less expensive buy and operate than a Tahoe. 

 

The only real thing that the Impala and Taurus have given departments is lower gas bills that they like. This is one area of the budget that takes a hit. 

 

Even my Buddy with the FBI has said they like to keep with the RWD in their agency.They like the larger trunks and the chassis that over steer and and hate the under steer of the FWD and AWD. He is a tact team sniper and his equipment fits the larger car much better. He fits better when in all his body armor too behind the wheel. 

[hyperv6]

honestly the only people that won't let the large RWD market die are the older set, who grew up on the stuff, and don't have much time left.  Really, its like 2016.  Most of the general world market won't give two squats if the commodore or caprice or whatever goes away.  On commodity cars, the drive wheels are not an issue.  Chevy is a commodity brand.

 

If there is a new global RWD impala sized car, i can guarantee, you go to chevy dealer owners in the US and they will rather see the fwd Impala like currently offered because they know they can sell it.  meanwhile you have SS chevy's two model years old still sitting on lots and the car itself sells a pittance.  Most dealers will say, great i might make a few thousand on each of those 5 chevy SS i sell this year, but it does nothing for my unit volume.  No point to a performance Chevy halo sedan anymore when Cadillac has taken that role on in GM.  All Chevy needs to do is keep the Camaro fresh and that's all the performance will allow CAFE for these days.

 

It's time for manufacturers to move on.  RWD is some sort of rite of passage in the luxury arena and that is why it needs to stay there.  We already know what the market is for the performance side of RWD sedans at Chevy anymore.  If anything, to make something like an SS more salable here, it needs AWD so people can use the car year round in snow states.

 

Impala vs Malibu is like Camry and Avalon in the states.  Just stretch and pull, there is always someone wanting a more tarted up and larger version of the peasant class fwd midsize.  It's still going to capture more market share overall.

 

Chrysler has only kept the LX going because they had no other recourse, Tony starved the whole brand, there was no way to put out a new 300, or charger substitute..  

 

Police are taking to the unibody AWD vehicles like the Ford Explorer and Taurus.  The need for a police car to be a rwd biased chassis are coming to an end.

 

Just read an article on C/D i believe.  Kia K900.  Sold 2500 units in the US last year.  And the car itself drives like crap.  No market is there to improve the car to bring sales up.  Why they bothered, no one knows.

 

 

Last year Chrysler sold over 150K units of the 300 and Charger even with the old heavy and outdated LX platform. That is a lot more than the Impala has done in a few years. That was not even global sales just Canada and the US market. Now take these numbers and add global sales and you may just find you will make a lot more money on it than just another FWD that looks like a Malibu. 

Just the fact the Chrysler cars are so old should open the door here with the new much more competent chassis. 

 

Kia sales such as their car really sucks and is far from Cheap even by their standards. 

 

The Camaro only needs to be around 100K unit to make good money. GM with a RWD platform should be easily able to make 100K units globally with a sedan. 

 

Here is the Taurus sales http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/ford-taurus-sales-figures.html  They just cleared 50K sales. Hmm compared to the 100K of the Dodge I would say there is more money in the RWD full size. 

 

By looking at this the Taurus sales are not very good period. They have not made it past six figures in sales since 2005

The large car market is no longer a volume market. And where sales have done well RWD was most times involved and profitable. Selling smaller numbers in different markets would be the way to go. To go out and build a total new car I would be against but when you could make a LWB car on the Camaro platform at a decent cost that is a no brainier. 

 

I suggest you look to see who is siding with you. That should tell you there may be a flaw in your thinking. 

Lets put it this way. If there was no money here GM would not be working on this. 

[smk4565]

I agree that Chevy needs a cheaper, more fuel efficient SUV to market to police deparments.  But that vehicle is also going to be a front drive unibody vehicle with the same engine and transmission from an Impala.  Assuming Terrain and Equinox move to D2XX and shrink in size, that leaves space for a mid-size Chevy on C2XX similar to the Acadia.

 

I am all for rear drive cars, but if Chevy wants a full size rear drive car, that means the Impala has to be it, and the FWD car has to die, and that rear drive Impala also would need to start around $28,000.  The brand can't support 2 full size sedans.  I just don't think GM will scrap the FWD Impala when it is too easy to make it and platform share with Malibu, Lacrosse, etc.

[hyperv6]

I agree that Chevy needs a cheaper, more fuel efficient SUV to market to police deparments.  But that vehicle is also going to be a front drive unibody vehicle with the same engine and transmission from an Impala.  Assuming Terrain and Equinox move to D2XX and shrink in size, that leaves space for a mid-size Chevy on C2XX similar to the Acadia.

 

I am all for rear drive cars, but if Chevy wants a full size rear drive car, that means the Impala has to be it, and the FWD car has to die, and that rear drive Impala also would need to start around $28,000.  The brand can't support 2 full size sedans.  I just don't think GM will scrap the FWD Impala when it is too easy to make it and platform share with Malibu, Lacrosse, etc.

The key to the SUV over the Impala is more room and higher ground clearance. Durability still is not a strong suit but some departments will sacrifice it in the name of MPG.

A Colorado based SUV would be a good option here.

If GM does a RWD car they would kill the FWD Impala as why would you offer both. It is bad enough they are so close tot he Malibu in size now.

You are not going to get to $28K. First that does not buy you much Malibu now let alone an Impala. Start it around 33K and top the SS at mid 40's like an SS Camaro. Special editions could be offered in low numbers at higher prices. They just pad profits.

The whole point is why have a FWD Impala when you already have a new Malibu and new Lacrosse that have the whole spectrum covered?

Also where else in the world would the Impala sell well other than Canada?

A V6 model in a police package would give better handling, MPG and still run a high 13 second quarter performance.

Edited March 31, 2016 by hyperv6

[smk4565]

a BOF rear drive SUV like the Toyota 4Runner won't sell to the masses.  So I'd expect another FWD crossover.  Chevy needs at least 4 crossovers, maybe 5. 

 

If they can sell the Impala now for $27k and sell a rear drive Camaro for under $25k, I don't see why an Impala rear drive sedan would be more than $28,000 starting.  This could have a 200 hp, 4-cylinder. 

[hyperv6]

a BOF rear drive SUV like the Toyota 4Runner won't sell to the masses.  So I'd expect another FWD crossover.  Chevy needs at least 4 crossovers, maybe 5. 

 

If they can sell the Impala now for $27k and sell a rear drive Camaro for under $25k, I don't see why an Impala rear drive sedan would be more than $28,000 starting.  This could have a 200 hp, 4-cylinder. 

 

 

Volume my son that is how it will not be that cheap. Besides no one buys the base cars anyways. That has been clearly pointed out to you on the ATS already. 

 

Also I would never put a 200 HP 4 in this. The base engine would be the Camaro Turbo 4. 

 

How many $27K  Impala's do you see on dealer lots? None as most are well over $30K sticker and closer to $40K. Don't be a Fish on the marketing prices. 

 

Well GM already has a Colorado based SUV platform and Chevy models always sell well. The 4 runner did not sell because it was a Toyota and secondly it was a crappy vehicle.  It had many flaws from what I saw on my friends. Premium fuel required and a sun roof you could not open unless you removed the useless basket on the roof. Then the rust. 

 

As for the real possibility for Ford to bring the Bronco back as a RWD SUV and the Ranger I would expect GM is already at work on a Blazer or what ever they will call it. 

[regfootball]

 

I agree that Chevy needs a cheaper, more fuel efficient SUV to market to police deparments.  But that vehicle is also going to be a front drive unibody vehicle with the same engine and transmission from an Impala.  Assuming Terrain and Equinox move to D2XX and shrink in size, that leaves space for a mid-size Chevy on C2XX similar to the Acadia.

 

I am all for rear drive cars, but if Chevy wants a full size rear drive car, that means the Impala has to be it, and the FWD car has to die, and that rear drive Impala also would need to start around $28,000.  The brand can't support 2 full size sedans.  I just don't think GM will scrap the FWD Impala when it is too easy to make it and platform share with Malibu, Lacrosse, etc.

The key to the SUV over the Impala is more room and higher ground clearance. Durability still is not a strong suit but some departments will sacrifice it in the name of MPG.

A Colorado based SUV would be a good option here.

If GM does a RWD car they would kill the FWD Impala as why would you offer both. It is bad enough they are so close tot he Malibu in size now.

You are not going to get to $28K. First that does not buy you much Malibu now let alone an Impala. Start it around 33K and top the SS at mid 40's like an SS Camaro. Special editions could be offered in low numbers at higher prices. They just pad profits.

The whole point is why have a FWD Impala when you already have a new Malibu and new Lacrosse that have the whole spectrum covered?

Also where else in the world would the Impala sell well other than Canada?

A V6 model in a police package would give better handling, MPG and still run a high 13 second quarter performance.

 

the same reason why you don't kill a lambda size Acadia and expect that Acadia owner to get an Enclave or a Traverse.  The Impala driver doesn't want or need to step up to the LaCrosse.  The LaCrosse isn't cheap enough to appeal to those who want a large fwd car unless they de-content the base version.

 

no one buys performance cars anymore, which is why a RWD car won't sell in masses.........which is why no one buys the SS.  G8 v6 sold like a turd it was, no reason to believe an Impala RWD v6 would do any better.  The RWD used to own the cop segment but now they want Explorers instead.  

 

The new Malibu is a light car and the number of people who would want a larger more stout version of that in FWD is still way higher than any group that would want a Chevy badged RWD full size car at this point.  The best way to do a RWD full size car would be to add it to the Buick stable as the Avenir.  And then if you want to, commit to a new version of the SS, but not replace the Impala.

 

Toyota still has the Avalon.  It's a pulled Camry.  That's far easier to do then a whole new chassis just because its RWD, and it won't sell in the states unless you call it a performance car.  And that is a niche.  

 

GM could sell more SS if they advertised it and it looked good, but they would also have to drop the price.  It's one of those deals where they may grab some sales in year 1 and 2, but after that it would be 20k a year.  And they'd basically siphon the RWD crowd from Cadillac.

[smk4565]

 

a BOF rear drive SUV like the Toyota 4Runner won't sell to the masses.  So I'd expect another FWD crossover.  Chevy needs at least 4 crossovers, maybe 5. 

 

If they can sell the Impala now for $27k and sell a rear drive Camaro for under $25k, I don't see why an Impala rear drive sedan would be more than $28,000 starting.  This could have a 200 hp, 4-cylinder. 

 

 

Volume my son that is how it will not be that cheap. Besides no one buys the base cars anyways. That has been clearly pointed out to you on the ATS already. 

 

Also I would never put a 200 HP 4 in this. The base engine would be the Camaro Turbo 4. 

 

How many $27K  Impala's do you see on dealer lots? None as most are well over $30K sticker and closer to $40K. Don't be a Fish on the marketing prices. 

 

Well GM already has a Colorado based SUV platform and Chevy models always sell well. The 4 runner did not sell because it was a Toyota and secondly it was a crappy vehicle.  It had many flaws from what I saw on my friends. Premium fuel required and a sun roof you could not open unless you removed the useless basket on the roof. Then the rust. 

 

As for the real possibility for Ford to bring the Bronco back as a RWD SUV and the Ranger I would expect GM is already at work on a Blazer or what ever they will call it. 

 

If they can make a Camaro with a turbo 4 starting at $25k, I am sure they could make a N/A 4-cylinder Impala at $28k.  Especially since the current Impala starts at $27k.  I didn't say $28k was the top, I would start at $28k and go up to $40k.  But no Chevy sedan should ever top $40k, Chevy is a value brand.  

 

In a hypothetical, if they did make a rear drive Impala with a turbo 4 base and say and LT1 V8 option, how justify a CT6 costing $30,000 more with the same turbo 4 engine and a weaker turbo V6.  It wouldn't make sense.  I'd like to see GM make a mainstream rear wheel drive car, but then it also has to have horsepower, interior and features like a Malibu would have.   Performance and luxury is Cadillac, Chevy is for value.

[hyperv6]

 

 

I agree that Chevy needs a cheaper, more fuel efficient SUV to market to police deparments.  But that vehicle is also going to be a front drive unibody vehicle with the same engine and transmission from an Impala.  Assuming Terrain and Equinox move to D2XX and shrink in size, that leaves space for a mid-size Chevy on C2XX similar to the Acadia.

 

I am all for rear drive cars, but if Chevy wants a full size rear drive car, that means the Impala has to be it, and the FWD car has to die, and that rear drive Impala also would need to start around $28,000.  The brand can't support 2 full size sedans.  I just don't think GM will scrap the FWD Impala when it is too easy to make it and platform share with Malibu, Lacrosse, etc.

The key to the SUV over the Impala is more room and higher ground clearance. Durability still is not a strong suit but some departments will sacrifice it in the name of MPG.

A Colorado based SUV would be a good option here.

If GM does a RWD car they would kill the FWD Impala as why would you offer both. It is bad enough they are so close tot he Malibu in size now.

You are not going to get to $28K. First that does not buy you much Malibu now let alone an Impala. Start it around 33K and top the SS at mid 40's like an SS Camaro. Special editions could be offered in low numbers at higher prices. They just pad profits.

The whole point is why have a FWD Impala when you already have a new Malibu and new Lacrosse that have the whole spectrum covered?

Also where else in the world would the Impala sell well other than Canada?

A V6 model in a police package would give better handling, MPG and still run a high 13 second quarter performance.

 

the same reason why you don't kill a lambda size Acadia and expect that Acadia owner to get an Enclave or a Traverse.  The Impala driver doesn't want or need to step up to the LaCrosse.  The LaCrosse isn't cheap enough to appeal to those who want a large fwd car unless they de-content the base version.

 

no one buys performance cars anymore, which is why a RWD car won't sell in masses.........which is why no one buys the SS.  G8 v6 sold like a turd it was, no reason to believe an Impala RWD v6 would do any better.  The RWD used to own the cop segment but now they want Explorers instead.  

 

The new Malibu is a light car and the number of people who would want a larger more stout version of that in FWD is still way higher than any group that would want a Chevy badged RWD full size car at this point.  The best way to do a RWD full size car would be to add it to the Buick stable as the Avenir.  And then if you want to, commit to a new version of the SS, but not replace the Impala.

 

Toyota still has the Avalon.  It's a pulled Camry.  That's far easier to do then a whole new chassis just because its RWD, and it won't sell in the states unless you call it a performance car.  And that is a niche.  

 

GM could sell more SS if they advertised it and it looked good, but they would also have to drop the price.  It's one of those deals where they may grab some sales in year 1 and 2, but after that it would be 20k a year.  And they'd basically siphon the RWD crowd from Cadillac.

 

 

 

Again think globally. All 4 GM divisions would move enough of these cars to see a good profit at even only 50K units which is very obtainable. 

 

The reason the Zeta has not sold is pretty simple. For one it is not cheap. Two it is only sold in one variation. Three it is damn old. Four the styling while not bad is nothing to get exited about. 

GM did not advertise it as they only expected to import a small number. They also knew this car was a lame duck coming in as they knew it was to die soon. 

A V6 Alpha body sedan has every reason to do well and much better than the G8. The G8 was a turd to drive. The V6 Camaro will rune 13.5-13.6 quarter mile times, drive circles around most modern day sedans even without an SS on the flank. 

Or do you hate to have a standard Impala that is better than some of the better performance sedans on the market. Just look at what the V6 Camaro can do and you will see a standard car of world class quality. 

Give me a reason to make another FWD sedan that basically matches the Lacrosse and Malibu? Why would you need a 3rd car of the same thinking? Would it be better to offer something different and something much better and newer than the LX cars? 

 

Or we can continue with the North American only Impala FWD and just watch as its sales continue to drop below 100K and match up more with the Taurus at 50K. 

 

Like it or not the Malibu as it is now will do a lot of damage to the Impala sales. It is a much better car at a cheaper price with about the same rear seat room. You could not say that last year but you can now. 

[hyperv6]

 

 

a BOF rear drive SUV like the Toyota 4Runner won't sell to the masses.  So I'd expect another FWD crossover.  Chevy needs at least 4 crossovers, maybe 5. 

 

If they can sell the Impala now for $27k and sell a rear drive Camaro for under $25k, I don't see why an Impala rear drive sedan would be more than $28,000 starting.  This could have a 200 hp, 4-cylinder. 

 

 

Volume my son that is how it will not be that cheap. Besides no one buys the base cars anyways. That has been clearly pointed out to you on the ATS already. 

 

Also I would never put a 200 HP 4 in this. The base engine would be the Camaro Turbo 4. 

 

How many $27K  Impala's do you see on dealer lots? None as most are well over $30K sticker and closer to $40K. Don't be a Fish on the marketing prices. 

 

Well GM already has a Colorado based SUV platform and Chevy models always sell well. The 4 runner did not sell because it was a Toyota and secondly it was a crappy vehicle.  It had many flaws from what I saw on my friends. Premium fuel required and a sun roof you could not open unless you removed the useless basket on the roof. Then the rust. 

 

As for the real possibility for Ford to bring the Bronco back as a RWD SUV and the Ranger I would expect GM is already at work on a Blazer or what ever they will call it. 

 

If they can make a Camaro with a turbo 4 starting at $25k, I am sure they could make a N/A 4-cylinder Impala at $28k.  Especially since the current Impala starts at $27k.  I didn't say $28k was the top, I would start at $28k and go up to $40k.  But no Chevy sedan should ever top $40k, Chevy is a value brand.  

 

In a hypothetical, if they did make a rear drive Impala with a turbo 4 base and say and LT1 V8 option, how justify a CT6 costing $30,000 more with the same turbo 4 engine and a weaker turbo V6.  It wouldn't make sense.  I'd like to see GM make a mainstream rear wheel drive car, but then it also has to have horsepower, interior and features like a Malibu would have.   Performance and luxury is Cadillac, Chevy is for value.

 

 

The CT6 offers much more than a Chevy would. I guess you have not been in the back seat or have even seen the large video screens. The ride is going to be much more quiet and smoother. Also the CT6 has a V8 coming too. 

 

Technology is where Cadillac will be making up for the price also in refinement as we go. 

Many of you were just fine with the Fleetwood that was built on a Caprice but now you complain if they build a Impala on a Cadillac platform and yet the Cadillac has much more content than the Chevy will ever see. With this thinking GM can't win. 

 

The bottom line is globally the RWD will do better than a NA only Impala. Simple enough. The BU is here now and there is no need for a fraternal twin. You beg for different products and for them to take some chances on some things but yet you poo poo something that has little risk to it and a greater potential of bringing more profit. 

 

Now if they had to make a new platform I would say fine that makes sense but the engineering is done. The styling and details are all that needs to be done. 

 

Well I am confident we will see a RWD Impala at this point. Al does not leak unless there is something to leak. Also GM has made a big point of racing what they make in RWD. I would expect we will see a new RWD sedan being given to NASCAR for approval and then some on track testing. The Cup series is for sedans and with Marks stance on them using RWD leaves me the impression that is what we will see and not a BU. 

 

By the way I would recommend you get to know a CT6. If you do you will realize it is never going to be confused for a Impala or cross shopped for an SS. They are product targeted at totally different groups. 

Edited April 1, 2016 by hyperv6

[Cmicasa the Great]

The SS's relative--the Caprice--has had pretty low volume, I believe?   I wonder if GM is planning a police package for the Impala, as Ford did w/ the Taurus.

 

 

They could.. thing is that the Platform is changing starting with the new LaX. I would venture to say that the plan again is to combine the Caprice, Impala, and SS into one car. I still say that would be on Omega, but.. Alpha would be fine as well from a dynamics and size point of view (considering the WB of the CTS) but Omega needs to be utilized. If GM is gonna only use Omega for Cadillac I can see them still doing an Omega-Lite for Chevy and Buick.. maybe not using as much in the way of light materials such as the aluminum, replacing it more with steel. I will add.. or be devil's advocate that the Omega Platform is also going to be used for the XT-series as will.. so perhaps that's where the volume will come from.. and Alpha.. will be the "RWD Epsilon" platform for the corporation. I actually prefer this.. as the Alpha platform is is able to also go large. The boot of the "new" Impala could certainly still be enlarged. As it stands the only issue I would see is that the CTS is slightly narrower than the current SS by about 2.5inches

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

By the way I would recommend you get to know a CT6. If you do you will realize it is never going to be confused for a Impala or cross shopped for an SS. They are product targeted at totally different groups. 

 

 

 

Makes to much sense to waste it on Smk. Its almost as crazy as people who say that the Camaro and ATS were gonna be cross-shopped. Brands be damned.. they are two totally different vehicles. I don't look at a Mustang and think.. "what's a 3/4 series have to offer"

[smk4565]

I think a year or two ago I made an argument for a RWD Impala, since why do they need a Malibu, Regal, Impala, LaCrosse all sort of on top of each other.  Sending the Impala to rear drive (with awd option) makes it more classic American and rwd is a superior platform.  You'd probably have to use Omega, an Alpha car would be too small, and no bigger than a Malibu or CTS.  But you can't make it a $40-50,000 car, that is to expensive for a Chevy.

 

If they made an Omega Impala about 202 inches long, with an NA 2.5 liter they could probably get weight to 3,600 lbs, in which case 200 hp and an 8-speed auto can move the car just fine.  That is a better power to weight ratio than the new Acada has.  Then offer a 2 liter turbo OR a V6, the Impala buyer would probably prefer the V6.  But if you start putting Corvette engines in it and selling it for $55,000 then it isn't an Impala anymore.  This is partly why the G8 and now SS have failed, there is just hardly any market for a V8, full size rear drive sedan.  They need an Impala that can cater to the masses or it will be dead.

 

And stop making Cruze and Malibu bigger forcing the Impala to extinction.  Kill the Spark, and downsize the Sonic, Cruze and Malibu.